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McCain Attacks Obama For Refusing To Go On "Baghdad Stroll"

John McCain apparently thinks he's got a winning issue in Obama's refusal to join him on his next "Baghdad Stroll."

On the stump today, McCain attacked Obama over the statement we posted yesterday, in which the Obama campaign effectively told McCain to take his "invitation" for a joint Iraq trip and stick it in a warm, dark place. Take a look...

"To say that we've failed in Iraq and that we're not succeeding does not comport with the facts on the ground," McCain said. "So we've got to show him the facts on the ground."

One imagines that the McCain camp thinks they effectively laid a trap for Obama by getting him to refuse his invitation. It's only a matter of time until McCain surrogates start arguing that Obama won't meet with the troops.

It's hard to imagine they'll get any real traction with something as transparently silly as this one, though.


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Clinton tried this. That's why McCain thinks, "Meet me in Iraq, Barack Obama!" will work.

And it probably will.

The only person running for president that has SURRENDERED to the enemy is John McCain. McCain is having Vietnam flashbacks by thinking withdrawing troops out of Iraq us equal to surrendering. Forcing the Iraqis to take over their own defense is not surrendering it's called VICTORY.

Yes! Tru'er words...

Actually, it is strange that it has worked out this way, but there MUST be an election GOD. Imagine McBush suggesting s stroll into Baghdad at the same time that the McClellan expose hits the news. It must be daunting to McBush. But Obama is very bright and would surely NOT even consider a stroll through Iraq with this turncoat. McCain. He has railed against Bush for a long time, accused him of being incompetent in his conduct of the war, and now just to try to suck up to the neocons, he has sold his soul. He spent the first part of the war crabbing about the Bush conduct of the war and now he wants to get credit for the few minimal gains but he expects us to ignore how it bankrupted our country, stole from our treasury, paid out huge sums to the Cheney cronies and was responsible for the deaths of so many of our brightest and best. Good for you, Obama!!!!!

Yes, so both candidates can be hurt by IUDs; smart, real smart McSame.

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IUDs rarely hurt men.

My mom was hurt by an IUD. Took a couple of months to get over it.

Yea, it's always Hillary's fault. That goes without saying.

...through my rose colored glasses, says McCain.

Don't be so certain this won't get any traction. Most Americans are pretty stupid.

Exactly.

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O give it rest, please, Einstein.

It's a pathetic argument, given that Bush has an approval rating of 28% now - who did they poll, Martians?

and are you not an American? What makes you the great exception to your rule?


People who routinely think of "the people" as idiots are just the same fucking thing as Bush and as aristocrats in all times and all places, who think we're just here for their convenience.

fuck that attitude. It's anti-democratic.

I rest my case.

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you made a case for being snotty alright.

I'm really glad the geniuses have graced us with their presence - maybe they can help the rest of us out.


See Ohio, November, 2004.

Hmm. I take back my previous comment. One thing I do agree with though is the fact that there are lot of ignorant people who are just looking for a reason NOT to vote for Obama. McCain just gave them one: "Obama doesn't care about our troops."

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That''s a winner alright, coming from the man who didn't bother to show up and vote on the new G.I. Bill.

And that will be hung around his neck like a rotting albatross from now until November.

Well played, Tena. You really don't get far assuming every other person is an idiot.

After Bush's election, and re-election (even if he didn't actually win, nearly half of our voters chose him) it's hard for me not to agree with silver heron.

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Tell you what - I feel sorry for you if that's true.

People who think they're better than most other people around them are just asking for that big fall.

Read some Greek tragedies sometime and find out about hubris. I think it would be instructive.

Not to say that "other people" are not as smart as I or we are, but there is a point there. Look at the marketing campaigns and see who they are being directed at. Marketing firms do their research and don't waste money targeting people with ads that don't work. At least not for long. Look at the number of people who buy into McBush's bullshit. Whether all these people are not as clever as others or are just living in a different paradigm, it is a hurdle that has to be cleared. P.T. Barnum (or H.L. Menkin, I can't recall) once said the "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people". The Republicans have been existing by that premise for decades. To ignore that is not facing the problem. Too many people just believe whatever claptrap the R's toss their way.

Actually, a little more than 1/3rd (ca. 32%) of the electorate chose Bush in 2004.

I wonder if McCain really thinks his heavily guarded strolls through Baghdad represent the reality of Iraq.

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That was what I was thinking. Does McSame really want us dwelling on his past comments about how safe Iraq is and his stroll through a baghdad market with a platoon of marines and chopper cover?

Really?

Doesn't this just remind us that McSame is:

A) a liar
B) off his rocker
C) Bush

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Yes yes and definitely, yes.

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Exactly.

I'm also enjoying that Obama is doing for McCain as he did for Hillary. Just giving McCain enough rope... letting him dig himself a hole...

Wait for it.

=D

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"He put himself in the air. I just kick away the chair..."
-Sean Carter, "Dig A Hole"

Don't think Senator Obama has never heard this song... I'm sure Reggie Love put it on his iPod...

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Yes, let McSame keep talking about Iraq as 65% of the people want out of that hell hole. As far as the troops, McWar was for the troops before he was against them.

I think he does. Like I said he's got the rose colored glasses on, and they NEVER come off.....my friends.

If you are curious about who is on the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee that will be deciding on Florida and Michigan, here is the list with their affiliations.....


The tally: Hillary has 13 supporters, Obama 8 and 7, in addition to the 2 co-chairs have not yet endorsed. The member from Florida is an Obama supporter. One of the co-chairs, Alexis Herman, was one of Bill Clinton's cabinet members.

Co-Chairs - no endorsement
Alexis Herman (co-chair, Washington , D.C. )
James Roosevelt, Jr. (co-chair, Massachusetts )

Members - Clinton supporters (13)

Hartina Flournay (DC)
Donald Fowler (SC)
Harold Ickes, Jr. (DC)
Alice Huffman (CA)
Ben Johnson (DC)
Elaine Kamarck (MA)
Eric Kleinfeld (DC)
Mona Pasquil (CA)
Mame Reiley (VA)
Garry Shay (CA)
Elizabeth Smith (DC)
Michael Steed (MD)
Jaime Gonzalez, Jr. (TX)

Members - Obama supporters (8)

Martha Fuller Clark (NH)
Carol Khare Fowler (SC)
Janice Griffin (MD)
Thomas Hynes (IL)
Allan Katz (FL)
Sharon Stroschein (SD)
Sarah Swisher (IA)
Everett Ward (NC)

Members - no known endorsement (7)

Donna Brazille (DC)
Mark Brewer (MI)
Ralph Dawson (NY)
Yvonne Gates ( NV)
Alice Germond (DC) - DNC Secretary
David McDonald (WA)
Jerome Wiley Segovia (VA)

One to keep your eye on: New York lawyer Ralph Dawson. It was his idea to strip the states of their delegates. He contributed $1,000 to Obama. He says he's also given to Hillary. Can he really be uncommitted at this juncture? Maybe... he says his primary goal is nominating the one that is more electable in November, rather than his personal preference.

Another "uncommitted" , David T. McDonald of Washington has already nixed Hillary's idea publicly:

McDonald said he wouldn't respond well if Clinton wanted to seat delegates based on the contests that already took place in the two states.

"If she makes the motion to allocate 'beauty contest' delegates, she will not get support from me," he said. "If she gives [the states] a chance to comply with rules, I will consider it, but they were given 30 days to comply already."

Here's an oddity: Jerome Wiley-Segovia. Although from Virginia, he was appointed by Dean to represent the Latino vote. He thinks Obama has a better chance of winning but praises Hillary's campaign for its "competency."

This has nothing to do with Obama vs. McCain and the fight we face.

You are irrelevant.

You're on the wrong thread. This is about the war. Take your electability arguments to the proper thread.

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This is War, Hobbit! War!

"Competency"=(-$20 million)?!?

WTF is "incompetency"?!?!

"Well, you know, It's clear, this election they(Florida & Michigan) are having is not going to count for anything,"
Hillary Clinton Jan. 15.

The end.

Harold Icks, Jr. and Hartina Flournay who are are the rules and bylaw committee have said that they will be voting to have all delegates counted and all votes counted in full...... that means that Hillary just needs 11 more votes.... she has 11 other supporters on the board.... will they all swing her way:)


GO HILLARY!!!!!!!!!!


seat those delegates from both states in full and count every vote:):)

I agree 100%. It is far better to win a nomination after the fact by changing the rules, than by winning elections. Seriously, I pity you diehard HRC people. You only care about getting your person in by any means necessary. Apart from anything else, it reflects a shallowness and lack of seriousness towards democratic principles, and a glib disregard for harm HRC will do to the Democratic Party if this strategy is successful.

Read the rules. That can't happen.

take it to another thread, troll.

Can you please explain this? There's 30 people on the committee and she only needs 13 people to vote her way?

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Troll.

Watch the coming Barackarate! technique... you can almost sense McCain's failure that lies within his attack... the Barackarate! master will use the failure and the momentum of the attack to once again defeat the old man.

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Exactly. Methinks that, just maybe, Barack anticipated this reaction from Grandpa Simpson.

Market McCain is More of Cotton Hill, IMO.

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Yes!

That's who he reminds me of - I was trying to think and you nailed it!

It's hard to imagine they'll get any real traction with something as transparently silly as this one, though.
With the Media hungry for some story to fixate on, I imagine that even an admittedly silly story like this is indeed bound to gain traction. Fox will be all over it depending on how Scott's new found religion holds up over the next few days. All others will follow suit.

This will have as much traction as:

"Obama said Auschwitz when he meant Buchenwald, ergo he lacks judgment!"

Perhaps McCain could loan Barak one if his extra onion belts.

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Maybe a comeback would be to get some of the disgruntled generals from Iraq on board or how about the military dems that have been to iraq to point out how full of sh*t mccain is. Traveling to iraq doesn't give you any insight into what is actually going on. You get spoon fed garbage and you fly in and out. What on earth could that possibly tell you about the reality on the ground?

I vote for a smack down by ex-generals.

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This has been talked about already, but the fact is the very idea of the two presidential candidates, their people, the press that travels with them, and everyone else who follows along strolling through the streets of Baghdad has got to give screaming fits to the military there. It's a security nightmare for nothing more than a photo op.

It's totally disingenuous of McLame to even suggest it and it's also very unthinking. Our military is already overburdened. This would be nothing more than a logistical nightmare for nothing and the last time McLame pulled this stunt, people died as a result. That market was attacked the next day.

Exactly, I all for the press covering Iraq more. However, just like last time this could cause more violence to fall on the Iraqi people, the innocents. They don't deserve that, especially for political purposes. Nor do the troops, as Tena stated in some detail. War zones should never become a photo op for political purposes. Unfortunately, Iraq already has. McShame, indeed.

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Agreed, it would be a nightmare. Maybe that could be added to the smack down by military brass. Obama has to smack this guy down or he's going to keep it up and low information voters will buy this garbage.

Why didn't you vote on the GI Bill, Senator McCain?

You say you are against, yet you didn't even show up to vote. That's pretty weak.

I don't want a President who is weak, self-serving, and doesn't support the troops in a tangible way.

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I agree. It was one thing to oppose it - but to not even show up to vote on it? Who's the wimp now, John?

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It could work for McCain but it could also backfire on McCain - badly.

Obama has to remind everyone of all the protection McCain needed for his Bagdad market stroll and McCain's denying he ever needed it; then remind everyone of McCain's remarks about Petraeus driving around Iraq unprotected, followed by Petraeus saying he would never drive around Iraq unprotected. He could, if done correctly (and if reported by the msm), demonstrate that McCain is completely out of touch with reality on Iraq.

A simple "Would you walk through a Bagdad market with a regiment protecting you? Would you drive outside the Green Zone without massive protection?" - and reality would set in for the public.

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I meant, of course, "without a regiment." [sigh]

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The first answer given on this from Bill Burton brought that Baghdad Stroll right up and called it for what it was.

But AFAIC, you can't say it too often! So basically, I agree totally.

McC needs to solidify his base. His base = idiots.

McCain making the argument that the war in Iraq is not failing is great for Obama. I hope McCain keeps pushing the "success" of the Iraq war. This issue is a sure loser for McCain. By the way, did everyone see the response McCain gave to the hecklers at his recent speech? "I will NEVER surrender in Iraq." Sounds like he is planning on having our troops in Iraq FOREVER.

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Absolutely!

Everybody in the country, except for the hopelessly incapable 28%, hate this war. Everybody hates it a lot. Of course this is a winner.

And McLame keeps handing us big shiny presents that we can use - like not voting for the G. I. Bill.

Yeah, and he said with a smug look and prefaced it with, "By the way..." He was channelling Bush. This attitude will sink him.

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O Carol - yes. If there's one thing everyone is even sicker of than the war it's George Bush.

I think it's brilliant to keep pushing the fact that you can't tell Bush and McLame apart.

LOL Did McCain just read the Obama statement to his crowd of supporters? What a stupid move!

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I hope he is stupid enough to keep doing that.

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Yes, I thought that was a blunder.

I'm older than Frankenstein, and have more scars than dirt! Um, what -- what's that, Senator Lieberman? Oh yes, thank you, that's right of course. Ahem...I'm older than Frankenstein, and Iran is training the Sunnis in Iraq! What? Oh crap...just forget it. -- John McCain

**How would that work, exactly. His secret service detail would be added to McCain's, AND the military forces necessary to protect the leading candidates? And McCain thinks this would be a good photo op?
Why would McCain even consider such a dumb move? Old fart should stick to yelling at kids.

or clouds...

New theme song for McCain campaign:

Hey!
You!
Get offa my cloud!

The Hillary trolls are here in force...just like they are planning to do on Saturday. can't wait for this issue to be resolved and we move on to winning in Novemeber with Barack n Roll!

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And who does that remind you of?

The only people Bush ever spoke to while campaigning were his heavily vetted supporters.


that's the only people his handlers would let him near. Negativity is just more than Commander Coocoo Bananas could handle at that time. That was also the period when he had ramps and platforms built all the time so that his feet didn't touch the dirt.

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It's hard to imagine they'll get any real traction with something as transparently silly as this one, though.

On the merits, I would agree with you. It is a laughable argument that McBush is trying to make, but the traditional media has proven itself over the years to be more than willing to take the most fact-less, asinine and bewilderingly stupid argument and not only found traction with it, but built careers on it (O'Reilly anyone?)

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I agree that in '04 this would be DOOOOM!

But this ain't '04.

I don't think the public buys one bit of this, Les - they have completely turned against the war - just a small minority still thinks Iraq is peachy.

And I really think this time this message is a big fat loser - I think people want to hear that Obama wants to end the war and then I think they want to hear about domestic issues - which the repugs don't ever do, and these have been really egregious.

The economy - it matters and I really believe all people want to hear about the war is how a candidate is going to get our people out and when. That's it.

I think from there it's things at home that matter.

Clinton campaigned against Obama like this was still the 1990's...and lost.

Now McCain is going to campaign against him like it's 2004.

LOL.


Prince should write another song to that.

"So we've got to show him the facts on the ground."

Is McCain aware that this is just a figure of speech? He seems to think that the facts are literally lying on the ground in Iraq and you therefore have to go look at them.

This reminds me of the OJ trial when Johnny Cochrane baited the prosecution into trying on the glove. And McCain is not Cochrane....

I must admit that, at first, if Obama had beaten him to it, he should have invited mccain...

now, I think obama's best move would be to say something along the lines of, "Bush and McCain have used the Iraqi people as pawns in their game. There are real people - men, women, children - dying over there. For us to go over for a photo opportunity in an effort to manipulate and gain any sort of advantage in a political campaign would be immoral and an insult to the people of Iraq and the entire Middle East."

kiva

Most voters understand that this war is a drain on our economy. They want both fixed.... yesterday!

That's how we are gonna win.... and of course, McCain will do stupid things like not show up to vote in support of our troops.

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And Obama has steadily linked the two - the war and the bad economy.

It's one of my favorite points he makes because it really needs to be made and he does it all the time.

McSame thinks they can just fly in (probably in the middle of the night), stroll around - or visit those heavily-armed and guarded US military bases - and leave with the idea that they Understand Iraq.

I think Obama may be a bit smarter than that. I don't think he's ignored the coverage of previous visits and the logistics involved.

Ha! McSame thinks the winning formula to beat Obama is to talk about all the progress in Iraq? Wow. Can you say... delusional. With any luck, McSame will keep talking about how great things are going in Iraq every day from now until November.


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Posted by Liam yeasterday (this was so good, I have to repost it on Liam's behalf):

Franklin Roosevelt beat the Germans and the Japanese from his wheelchair, and he did not see the need to visit either Berlin or Tokyo while he was winning both major wars. He is the last American President to actually achieve complete surrender of the enemy in major wars.

The problem with the Iraq war is not that American Leaders have not spend enough time there; it is that they have spent too much of our brave Troops time and life blood there, without having a clue on how to complete the mission.

McCain is the Godfather of Bush's Misbegotten Iraq Folly.

Liam - if you're out there, send this brilliant response to the Obama campaign. If not, I will.

Yeah, that was a great post yesterday. Love FDR!!! Can anyone recommend a good book on him?

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Can anyone recommend a good book on him?

Yes, two -- both of which I've actually read!

The Defining Moment: FDR's Hundred Days and the Triumph of Hope by Jonathan Alter

No Ordinary Time: Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt: The Home Front in World War II by Doris Kearns Goodwin

Thanks! Much appreciated....

Three books, six titles.

Scott Gration was promoted to Major-General and commanded Joint Task Force-West during Operation Iraqi Freedom: January to June 2003

In August 2003 he was appointed Assistant Deputy Undersecretary of the Air Force for International Affairs, and in June 2004 the Director, Plans and Policy Directorate of United States European Command.

In the course of his career Gration recorded more than 5,000 flying hours, including 1,000 hours of combat and combat support time in 274 combat missions over Iraq. He was awarded the Defense Superior Service Medal and the Legion of Merit, as well as the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart, and some fifteen other decorations.

And he knows what the real ground situation in Iraq is like. He is now a policy adviser for the Obama campaign.

Don't trust us- trust the Generals.

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And he rocks, too.


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McCain is representing himself a an expert on the Iraq War. Since he has been running for the presedency, he has also been stating how the war was mishandled in several ways.

Odd, though... he did not air any of his concerns either publicly or in front of the Senate before running for this office. Instead, he fully supported the administration in every way, as far as I have seen.

Apparently, the lives of the folks he was representing at that time were much less important thanthe propaganda eminating from Washington.

Perhaps he needs to explain this to the families of the soldiers who never made it back home... and to the taxpayers who have mortgaged their children;s futures to pay for this fiasco...


and to the military men and women losing there homes why they are overseas.....and how mccain's mortgate crisis plan was written by a banking lobbyist....

America will see right through this shill of a politician....

ugh! typos. sorry. i think you get my meaning.

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If McCain tries anything so juvenile as a "DAYS SINCE WE OFFERED TO GO TO IRAQ WITH OBAMA" tally, Obama should argue with a "NUMBER OF AMERICAN TROOPS KILLED IN A SENSELESS WAR" tally in return.

I imagine the tallies would be mutually dropped fairly quickly.

Obama should start a tally of "days since McCain championed war with Iraq that Osama bin Laden has enjoyed freedom"

Perhaps McCain and Obama can hold a debate in Iraq. Town Hall style. Let the locals ask some questions. Afterall, our foreign policy affects them as much as it affects us.

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Did you see liam's link to Dowd's OP-ED bit today? Funny and a powerful rebuttal to the "Clinton's have already been vetted" argument:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/28/opinion/28dowd.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

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Ugh... this was supposed to be in response to josephcast, above.

i like you. but, take it to a different thread. let's stay on issue.... please.

ooops. sorry, i don't mean to be snotty. just sick of trolls (not you) trying to get us off on tangent subjects that are almost always divisive. let's keep the electability arguments to those threads. but thanks for the link!

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I know, I got off on a tangent about liam. Just thought you'd appreciate the link.

McCain's Iraq "invitation" is an attempt to shift the argument from the appropriateness of our invasion to the effectiveness of it. He's trying to argue that we're being successful there (we're "winning") if violence is down; but the real argument is whether, regardless of what's going on in Iraq, we should be there rather than elsewhere.

It's not whether the flames is bright and beautiful, it's whether we should have set the house on fire in the first place.

I want the U.S. out of Iraq as much as any person on this thread. But McCain's message will resonate with voters who see Obama as ready to cut-and-run. McCain's challenge is not seen so much as Obama being too chicken to go there, it can rightly be seen as his inclination to be doctinaire and unwilling to consider alternative scenarios given the ever-changing situation over there.

There are many, maybe most, Americans that want us out of Iraq. But just as many might agree that leaving with a modicum of success and stability is more important than just running away ASAP. By refusing to get a first-hand assessment Obama appears to be an ivy-league elitist who operates on theories rather than realities. That appearance will not work in his favor to those who still want to exit with some dignity and some success. Obama will be painted as a cowardly appeaser. Ready to cut-and-run regardless of the circumstance over there.

And of course once again, Obama is in reactionary mode. Never leading, always reacting. I doubt that McCain would issue this same challenge to Clinton.

lame

You're so full of shit it has backed up and is dripping out your mouth.

No, no. Obama is reacting. *You* are in reactionary mode.

Ah, my fan base. I love you too!

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As you can see, you're giving this guy precisely what he wants. Don't feed the trolls.

I don't see the connection between refusing to go with McCain to Iraq and an "unwillingness to consider alternative scenarios." Generally, I've noticed your posts are kind of low on logic.

There's no question that, whatever the exit strategy, empowering Iran is a problem to be guarded against (although that is probably unavoidable), and we have to make sure ethnic cleansing does not occur. Other than that, I can't think of other goals that are in the U.S. interest. "Dignity" and "success" are pretty amorphous as goals. McCain has offered similarly undefined benchmarks for success, and as a practical matter he offers nothing other than a continuation of the current strategy, which -- apart from anything else -- is an unacceptable waste of money. Obama has offered withdrawal, as soon as possible, but has promised to step in if things unwind. That seems to be the best of a pretty lousy set of options. What your average American thinks, I have no idea. My sense is that they want the War to end and don't care particularly about the terms.

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I doubt that McCain would issue this same challenge to Clinton.

That's because Hillary draws too much "sniper fire".

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I doubt that McCain would issue this same challenge to Clinton.

That's because Hillary CLinton draws too much "sniper fire".

Obama's secret weapon his VP, Jim Webb.


Obama/Webb '08

Steam roll over the Republicans to the White House!!!!

CHANGE is on the way baby!

I like Jim Webb. I like Tim Kaine too....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkQ04Tk7dTk

Obama's best response:

The numerous "tours" in Iraq of the kind suggested by McCain mean that entire units are deployed away from their families simply to protect visiting dignitaries. I believe these troups should be used either to complete our mission in Iraq and allow us to withdraw our forces or they should be sent home to be with their families immediately. They should not be used as pawns in cynical political attacks like those made today by John McCain.

How about countering with an invitation to McCain to take a "Stockton Stroll" in California to get him on the ground and educate him about the housing crisis.

Oh, wait. Phil Gramm has already briefed him on that.

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O good one!

Some great news on the Human Rights front. Now pressure has to be put on Russia, China, Israel, and the USA to also ban the use of these weapons that are used to commit war crimes against civilian populations, many of them young children. Put the heat on the USA to get on board.


DUBLIN (AFP) - The text of a landmark international convention to ban cluster bombs was agreed Wednesday by delegates from more than 100 countries meeting in Dublin, an Irish foreign ministry spokeswoman told AFP.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080528/ts_afp/irelandweaponsdiplomacy_080528201535


Excerpt:


The draft treaty agreed in Dublin read:

"Each state party undertakes never under any circumstances to:

"(a) Use cluster munitions;

"(b) Develop, produce, otherwise acquire, stockpile, retain or transfer to anyone, directly or indirectly, cluster munitions;

"(c) Assist, encourage or induce anyone to engage in any activity prohibited to a state party under this convention."

China, India, Israel, Pakistan, Russia and the United States -- all major producers and stockpilers -- are absent from the Dublin talks.

But but, what if we want to blow up clusters of stuff?

I'm anxious to hear Obama's response. While McCain's taunt is ridiculous on its face, it strikes me as just the sort of thing the media loves to clamor over. Obama probably could use some face time with generals, or some such thing.

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No, I really think that's not even worth much more of an answer than has been made.

It's a stunt.

I really think people would be far more interested in a tour of the housing crisis right here at home.


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Anyone who uses the phrase "cut and run" is not credible.

Now that is funny!

McCain is framing the debate on national security.
Obama is playing defense and getting his ass kicked.

We told you we need a fighter.

Damn.

This won't fly. (Kind of like McCain and his 5 crashed jets.) The big news is Puerto Rico and Montana/South Dakota. Will knock this right out of the news. Not to mention McClellan. And really, people are much more concerned with paying their gas bills than a trip to Iraq.

Subliminability's 78th rule of campaigning:

As a rule of thumb, don't spend extended periods of time reading opponent's reasonably well crafted, snarky press releases out loud to your own audience. They might agree with it.

Being a reactionary is not necessarily a bad thing given our news cycle. It means you always get the last word in for the day, before the dinner hour news.

Two sides to every argument.

McCain is War Monger. There is only one thing worse than a War Monger; that is an incompetent War Monger, that start a war that they do not know how to end. That is the Bush/McCain legacy.

McCain is the Godfather of Bush's Misbegotten Iraq Folly.

Vote for McCain and chant:

More War Years! More War Years! More War Years!

If you love war without end, then here is your choice.


http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/05/28/gall.bushmccain.gi.jpg

"We've got to show him the facts on the ground."

Izat sum playing up the inexperience meme? I think it is.

Of course, McCain nearly flunked his sorry ass out of the Naval Academy, while Obama was president of the Harvard Law Review.

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How many more of our Soldiers will he put in harms way for a Political stunt?

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Exactly.

It would be a good question for Obama to rhetorically ask McLame in reply.

And then hammer home McLame going AWOL when the vote on the GI Bill was held.

You know, Obama has been so quick on the draw with this stuff I don't even worry about it anymore. He is obviously so much brighter than McCain. If I were McCain, I would be pushing for NO debates, it might prove damn embarrassing, but then, McCain embarrasses himself every day. This is just to divert from the fact that he did not vote on the GI bill.

Yep, the Republicans are the flip-floppers this year.

How does if feel to see that the other flipper has flopped this year.

Or something.... that was lame. I apologize.

The flip-flop is on the other foot?

Obama's camp responds with a shot invoking the news of the day. Said Bill Burton:

โ€œOn the day after the former White House press secretary conceded that the Bush administration used deception and propaganda to take us to war, it seems odd that Senator McCain, who bought the flawed rationale for war so readily, would be lecturing others on their depth of understanding about Iraq. Senator Obama challenged the President's rationale for the war from the start, warning that it would divert resources from Afghanistan and the pursuit of Al Qaeda and mire us in an endless civil war. Senator McCain stubbornly insists on pursuing the failed Bush policy that continues to cost so much, while Senator Obama believes it's time to begin a deliberate, careful strategy to remove our troops and compel the Iraqis to take responsibility for their own future."

Ouch!

Bingo!

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This is the exact appropriate response. McCain is setting himself up for a very simple 30 second add that shows him strolling through a marketplace in full battle gear, helicopter escort overhead, surrounded by a battalion of troops one day before 21 people from the same market were executed...

If John Dubya were really smart, he would just stop talking. Literally. Don't say anything and hope that people lose sight of him as an elderly simpleton who hugged the most unpopular President in American History just 8 years after Rove and company slimed him in South Carolina. But let's face it: Dubyas ain't smart.

Snappy and apt, as usual.

This will be a long five months for McSame: He will say something, and then he will get snapped. Then will get angry and say something more undisciplined, opening him up for a more stinging rejoinder. And then he will get angrier.

Meanwhile he will be running around having to defend all kinds of red states.

Ugh. A real challenge to one's temperament!

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God I love these people! I love this campaign - Jesus that is wonderful!!!!

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Just wish it hit again on the reference that this "stroll" idea is a political stunt (aka part fop the deception).

Political stunts = part of the problem....

McBush claims he has see the "facts on the ground" in Iraq. WHAT A JOKE THAT IS.

Ask those "on the ground" who were ordered to accompany McCain & his political coterie to serve as their armed safety cushion, exactly what he & his buttbuddies Huckleberry & JoeLie have "seen" during their Iraq photo ops.

Of course, that question can only be posed after the ox yolk of being in the active military has been lifted from them...


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I'm surprised McCain read the whole response, and I think even he realized it was a mistake. Notice how he got quieter and sped up over the most damning parts.

Also, I was watching the crowd, and they didn't seem to be giving him any reaction. No shaking or nodding of heads, nothing that indicated they were even really paying attention.

Yeah, McCain's crowds are pretty sad. Fired up, ready to go! Not so much for them....

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Yep.

Anyways, these douches are just trolls and very likely republicans anyways.

Yes, you will notice they can't say anything bad about McCain, the war, etc. Nor will they try.

Franklin Roosevelt defeated Germany and Japan from his wheelchair. He never felt the need to visit Berlin or Tokyo while he was winning two major wars. He was the the last President to actually win a war outright.

The problem with the Iraq War is not that American Leaders have not spend enough time over there. It is that Bush/McCain have spent too much of our Troops time, and life blood in Iraq without ever having a realist plan to finish the mission.

McCain is the Godfather of Bush's Misbegotten Iraq Folly.

There is no need for Senator Obama to stroll through McBush's Potemkin Village.

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Exactly so.

A great response, liam!

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The latest version of swiftboating, trying to make Obama look like a chickenshit. Interesting ploy, because now Obama can't go to Iraq without looking like he's McCain's little bitch. OTOH, Obama doesn't need to go to Iraq to see/say that we've wasted hundreds of billions trying to mop up a horrible mistake, in the process taking a balanced budget and bankrupting it without adding anything to the U.S. infrastructure or security.

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I don't think you need to worry about Obama being anyone's little bitch.

And the whole suggestion is ludicrous in the first place. In the second place, every time McLame brings it up, it reminds people of his stroll, and his subsequent lies about it.


I swear that Obama's campaign is so great because they have one tactic: they tell the truth.

I say there Senator McCain; hey there McCain, yes you, I am talking to you War Monger Breath:

Question: If all your visits to Iraq have made you so much of an expert on how to win your stupid war, then why do insist that you will need another HUNDRED YEARS IN IRAQ. What say you to that, Bush's Branded Maverick of The Panderosa!

edit:

why do you insist

I think saying something about (as somebody noted above) the cost to the taxpayer of these Potemkin excursions ("gunships" and all) and the fact that he's relying on real military people -- many of whom are dying to spill the beans on this enterprise -- is a pretty sufficient response.

And whether or not he's the veep (I tend to prefer not), Webb can really do some work here -- he too, has a kid over there, right? And he is 20X more intelligent than McSame.

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This is so absurdly easy to refute. I can hear the Obama response:

"Our troops on the ground in Iraq have enough to do without pulling them away from critical missions to guard politicians for photo-ops. No photo-op is worth endangering the life of a soldier needlessly."

I guess McCain forgot that Obama voted against the war in the first place, so what's the point of this venture?

Obama doesn't need to know how "liberating" the free fall feels for the lemmings charging off the cliff.

Yea, it's always Hillary's fault. That goes without saying.

who?

I think the monkey's hitting redial.

Just curious though: assuming you're not a robocaller, do you really mean 'Yea' (as in "Yea, Obama won the election!"?) or rather 'Yeah' (as in "yeah, I let my chimp type my comments.")

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I don't blame Hillary for McBush being a fucking idiot, just for her voting with him to invade Iraq.

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Hillary? What's a Hillary?

Do as anyone think the Republicans will have a hard time voting for McCain this year. I always used to have a small amount of respect for him, say around 2000 or so (McCain-Feingold, etc). Since then he's done a 180 and become, well, McBush. Surely, there are many Republicans who have to see the new McCain for what he truly is (a shill, a panderer, a walking talking flip-flop). Granted, his views probably line up more with the base now, but voters have to see him for the falacy he is. Right?

This can't be cool with the people who called Kerry a flip-flopper. Or am I just expecting people to be less hypocritical than I give them credit for...

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Yes - I think there are going to be a number of different Republican demographics having trouble voting for McLame - I sure do.

Maybe he should go. He'd likely be greated as a liberator...from the American occupation.

Of course TPM should produce a primer for Obama on what he can expect to learn, where he can expect to go. And this primer will consist of the details of the trips that McCain has taken (eight of them), where he went, what he did, what he learned, how much it cost, etc.

Who knows, maybe it is possible to learn even more by visiting Iraq, but Obama should choose his guide wisely, can't we help him vet McCain?

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Gee, I wonder why they want to get Obama to Iraq so badly. You don't suppose they had plans to supply him with a helmet that's about three sizes too large and a flak jacket that says "Corporal Dipshit" on it, do you? Imagine the photo ops. It could be like Mike Dukakis all over again.

Yeah, good point.

The first rule of political stagecraft, is to never create a situation in which you don't have control of the outcome. How do the McCain people know this excursion won't backfire on them, unless they have some sort of gotcha set up, going in?

On the other hand, despite the man love much of the DC press corps has going for McC, he doesn't strike me, as all that bright.


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That was tooo funny, especially with the cat bunny action. I am still laughing. Thanks.

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McCain was repeating Obama's statement, going softer, and softer in his voice, almost as though he didn't want to admit to himself, or to let the listener come to the conclusion that the indictment actually makes sense.

It's hard to imagine they'll get any real traction with something as transparently silly as this one, though.

Ah... but this is America. They just might...


Since when do we have someone from the bottom of the class, McCain graduated 894th out of a Naval Academy class of 899 and that was with a daddy and granddaddy who were Admirals and graduates also, teach the person at the top of their class, Obama editor of Harvard Law Review.

Perhaps Obama should invite McCain for the Poverty Tour in America that John Edwards requested.

THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS, MY FRIENDS, FOR McSAME!

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Obama merely need say that he is not in the habit of wasting taxpayer dollars and endangering American troops for a political photo op. That supporting our troops means not needlessly putting them at risk for a photograph and for a political campaign ploy.

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