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Hillary-Supporter George McGovern Calls On Her To Drop Out
Breaking from the Associated Press:
Former South Dakota Sen. George McGovern urges Hillary Rodham Clinton to drop out of Democratic race.
To our knowledge, this is the first prominent Hillary supporter to urge her to quit. That could give cover to supporters on both sides to give voice to the same.
Late Update: The AP adds that McGovern will endorse Obama and will call Bill Clinton to inform him of his decision.
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This is only going to rev up Clinton supporters.
Superdelegates can switch, but I sort of wish they'd do it quietly.
May 7, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not sure what can rev them up anymore! They've been running on snake oil as it is!!!
♪♪♪
May 7, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just for the record, McGovern is not a superdelegate.
May 7, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
she's staying in, and i'll support her to the end.
at this point, i cannot see myself supporting obama due the vicious, narrow-mindedness of his supporters.
unless obama and clinton unify, he's going to have to work very hard to get my vote.
hillary, we're still backing you. i firmly believe you are the best candidate, and for that reason, i'll support you and we'll get you in the white house!
May 7, 2008 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you kidding me? You're going to hold the fact that some of his supporters said some things you didn't like against him? That's dumb as hell. What about Hillary Clinton's unfairly attacks against him?
May 7, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, okee and others like her know that it is totally worth it to fuck the country royally by electing McCain, so long as it is done to spite some anonymous blog poster who said something uncouth about Queen Hill.
Yeah, there is nothing at all wrong with that calculus....
May 7, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe she could sign on as an intern!
Just sayin'...
May 7, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the tour runs everyday at 10am.
May 7, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
are you stupid ???
or just a child
george bush and the repuglitards have fucked our country up beyond belief
and you're mad a Senator Obama cuz "his supporters said so mean things"
as a matter of fact, now that I think of it, your facualties and judgment are so fucked up that maybe you SHOULDN'T be voting it the first place
take a vacation in the first week of November
let the adults and the non-retarded handle this one
you ain't up to the task that needs to be done
May 7, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Head on over to TaylorMarsh.com and then come back here and let us know if you still feel that Obama supporters are the only vicious and narrow-minded ones.
May 7, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, be nice to you or you're going to toss the country into peril (i.e., vote for McCain) because your feelings are hurt?
GROW UP.
May 7, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
After your profane and vicious tantrums last night, you have the nerve to talk about the vicious narrow mindedness of the other side?
Go change your diaper, you sorry, sulking child.
May 7, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
she shouldn't drop out just yet...she just needs to stop the negative campaigning and the slimefest.
if she can do that and still stay in the race it'll contine to take away media attention from mccain and focus it on the Dems. the ideal situation for the Dems would be for her to stop attacking obama and they both start to lay into mcccain.
if she can be a team player for once, then she should stay in.
May 7, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary's theme song says it all:
http://www.imeem.com/people/6ZLAvc/music/xy5-SBoD/alexander_oneal_fake/
May 7, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Senator McGovern! I'm old enough to have hoped you'd make it yourself! But even now, you see what needs to happen. Yup, many of us "seniors" are in the Obama camp!
♪♪♪
May 7, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama on Intrade = 90.4!
♪♪♪
May 7, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama on IEM:
http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/quotes/Nomination08_Quotes.html
May 7, 2008 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
I too give HRC permission to drop out. If needed I can write her a doctor's note or vouch that there's been a death in the family.
May 7, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!!!!
May 7, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Somehow I strongly doubt that Geraldine Ferraro would do the same. Hmmm.
May 7, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is big. It's going to be a very interesting day - am I going to get any work done at all LOL? ;)
May 7, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
I took a vacation day the day after super Tuesday, I should have saved it for today.
Not only that, but I'm smiling so hard face hurts.
May 7, 2008 11:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thankfully, today is my day off so I can revel in the sweet, sweet smell of victory. Sorry Hillary supporters...:-)
Yesterday I worked the 11:30PM to 8:00PM shift, and I spent more time on the computer between 6 and 8 checking the returns, then I did actually working. The good news is I didn't get caught ;-)
May 7, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
I need to be packing - I'm leaving in the morning for 5 days.
But since I'm going "home" I have shit there. I can keep putting this off. LOL!!!
May 7, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gonna miss you Tena
May 7, 2008 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thinks she should drop out and spend more time with her family, they have a lot of earning to do to pay off her campaign debts, they'll need the time.
May 7, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's time to unify the party (past time, really) and put the smackdown on McSame.
Ramen.
~
May 7, 2008 11:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
George McGovern is from South Dakota, which is a state that Hillary Clinton will likely lose..... so it doesn't matter that George McGovern thinks that she should drop out.....
I think the remaining states should have there voices heard....... lets continue forward:)
May 7, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's not the point. the point is that he was an ardent supporter of hers, a former Sen and Pres Candidate (who she and bill worked hard for). Now he is telling her IT IS OVER. If she gets out before May 22nd, she'll have some dignity left. If not, she will never be Senate Majority leader and you can cross Bill's name off for JP Stevens Supreme Court vacancy.
May 7, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can a disbarred lawyer actually sit on the Supreme Court?
May 7, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, there is no requirement that a Supreme Court justice actually be a lawyer.
May 7, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
How strange. Isn't there a special bar for lawyers arguing before the Court?
May 7, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, you have to be admitted to practice before the Supreme Court, but it just requires that you've been admitted in some state for two years, have two current members sponsor you, and pay a fee.
May 7, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the info!
May 7, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary08, and what will those remaining states say? Obama will win Oregon, Montana, and SD, and Hillary will win KY and WV, then we will remain in the intractable situation we're currently in: Obama ahead, Hillary behind.
I think Hillary should stay in until May 20 to provide cover for Obama's losses in KY and WV, then I think, to save herself and her supporters much needed money, should concede.
May 7, 2008 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's OVER.
...and while you're at it, go tell the trolls from Taylor Marsh that it's OVER.
May 7, 2008 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh God! I can't even imagine how sick its getting over there. And I can't bear to find out.
May 7, 2008 11:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Keep your guard up. Hope for the best, but expect the worst out of Hillary. Think about it in a Fatal Attraction context. This is a very dangerous period. Do not get lulled into a false sense of victory. Do not lay down your arms until she has surrendered.
For those who can spare it, keep sending in donations to Obama. You have to make sure that he does not get caught short, should Hillary continue to wage an all out war. Her talk of raising the nomination delegate count required, and her ongoing efforts to count Florida and Michigan in her favor convinces me that she will continue with a scorched earth campaign.
What Hillary has done up until now is your best guide as to how she is likely to behave in the coming weeks.
Think Fatal Attraction, and keep your guard up at all times. Donate to Obama and keep on lending a hand.
May 7, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yep - yesterday was huge only because we haven't let up. This isn't time to pull back and assume the deal is done. This is time to double-up your donations and put the final nails in the Clinton campaign coffin.
Just imagine Clinton as Jason from "Friday the 13th". Never turn your back, never assume the monster is dead. Never assume anything. Chop the head off, cut the monster into little pieces, burn it, put the ashes into a container and sink it to the deepest part of the ocean or toss it into the lava pit of a live volcano. Only then can you rest easy.
May 7, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
OMG! It already has started. It's not that hard for Hillary supporters to understand that the real opponent is John McBush, IS IT? The time to join, ya'll, it's much more fun than you might think!
May 7, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is huge.
See how getting out the hard way works, Hillary? More embarrassment? You really want to keep going?
May 7, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
71 years ago last night, the Hindenburg Crashed:
May 7, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
What keeps giving me goosebumps is the whole Eight Belles story.
That's just too damn ironic - it was like a message from the goddesses to Hillary - get out now!
May 7, 2008 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess the radio report of the crash must've woken up John McCain, then.
May 7, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Last night was the night that ended it. Everyone knows it. Hillary supporters know it, Obama supporters know it. The question now is how long Hillary stays in (I hope she stays in past May 20 - Obama really needs to go to places like WV and KY), what her tone will be like in the next contests, and the movement/tone of her surrogates and undecided superdelegates.
There is a feeling of resignation amongst Hillary supporters today. Time to put acrimony aside and point both of our barrels at McCain.
May 7, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. I'd like to see her continue to campaign to May 20. But with some class. And with her focus on McCain.
May 7, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree. Her supporters DON'T know it. And I don't think she does. It was over a long time ago, and she still won't stop. Don't assume anything. Double-up your donations today.
May 7, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
George McGovern is an eminently sensible Clinton supporter. He is old school-old party decent. The ridiculous Wolfson and the pathetic Terry McAuliffe aren't fit to wash George's step-ins.
This recent HuffPO editorial showed George at his sanest:
"We can't overturn those rules now that the counting is over," he said. "I think Barack didn't even enter one contest [Michigan]. Those states knew what the rules were, all the candidates knew what the rules were, and to change it now I think is wrong."
May 7, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well gee, thanks George. I wish I thought that would shut the trolls down, but since we've been saying the same thing for weeks, I doubt it will.
Nice to see it officially stated, finally.
May 7, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Liam?
I loathe the Fatal Attraction analogy. I'm an Obama supporter, and I think the Clintons have run a sleazy campaign.
That said, the Fatal Attraction theme illustrates why Hillary Clinton had a tough hill to climb to begin with. Powerful women are not deranged individuals who are bent on destroying a family. THEY ARE NOT.
Disagree with Clinton all you want. But to paint her as a mentally disturbed individual is loathsome.
Truly loathsome.
May 7, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are reading too much into it. I am talking about her Fatal Attraction sense of entitlement to the Presidency. Now go read the new thread above this one, and you will see that I actually hit the nail on the head.
May 7, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, the trick of it is, People don't understand at this point why she persists in acting like the end is not nigh. It's over. Even if she does succeed in getting her Michigan and Florida votes included, she doesn't have the votes to win.
May 7, 2008 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, it is time to leave this echo chamber.
It was a hell of a fight but America did not want a fighter and the Obama supporters proved they do not want unity with the Clinton supporters with their hate.
Obama starts out losing Florida, Michigan and half the Dems. I wish him and his supporters luck in getting them back.
Meanwhile, the problems keep piling up with no solutions and I fear for my country.
Anyhoo, they rolled the dice and hoped he can do something. So good luck with that.
Now, back to your regular echo chamber.
God bless America.
May 7, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
If it was a "hell of a fight," doesn't that make Obama a fighter, too?
May 7, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes! Funny how you dont see that in the MSM! He fought the Msm, Hillary, and McCain! He is a gangsta!!! Ebonics....Gangsta = Good this time!
May 7, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Woo-hoo!
May 7, 2008 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Goodbye. Good riddance.
May 7, 2008 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
See ya. Don't let the door...
May 7, 2008 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bye.
You can always head over to Taylor Marsh dot com and enjoy the scintillating discussion over whether Obama is worse than 4.9 Hitlers or 6.7 Hitlers.
~
May 7, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is a God.
May 7, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
True colors, needalife? Hillary is saying she'll back the Dem. nominee this fall? Either you need some time to lick your wounds, or you were never a real Democrat in the first place. My guess is McCain is looking for some bloggers to give him cred with the kids on the Interweb. I'm sure you're no worse than all the RedStaters out there.
May 7, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
gotalife, don't be a big, fat baby.
May 7, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Adios Troll!
See you over at the Taylor Marsh, Obama-hating-troll-echo-chamber.
May 7, 2008 11:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Given the cross-posting of this comment, I'll remind the performer that this is considered an official Goodbye Cruel World notice pursuant to your union contract.
Though you leave our stage, you'll never really leave our hearts.
--------------------------------------------
Troll Rating: CLASSIC
May 7, 2008 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're a genius.
Seriously.
Stop going away for such long periods.
May 7, 2008 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Troll Critic 3000 - I love you.
May 7, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary said she would fight for the democratic nominee and has already told her supporters that it would be STUPID to vote for McCain over EITHER Democrat.
If she's smart enough to see the importance of voting for a Dem, why can't you?
Take a few days to get over your disappointment and then it's time to get to work. McCain is and always has been our mutual adversary.
How you Clinton supporters help fight this common enemy will redefine the Clinton legacy. If you do nothing, Clinton will be remembered as a sore loser. If you fight like you have during this primary, the Clinton legacy may be remembered as a primary force in a Democratic revolution and:
1) Possibly VP Hillary Clinton
2) Possible SCOTUS William J. Clinton
You decide. Be remembered as a sore loser or be remembered as a driving force to changing this country.
I'll leave you alone now. I expect that you'll make the correct decision. I'm sure Hillary will...
May 7, 2008 11:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're not going anywhere. So don't tease us like that.
And apparently nominating someone with a negative rating of over 50% doesn't constitute "rolling the dice"? Your blinded by your dislike of Obama.
May 7, 2008 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
MMMmmm, I love the smell of fresh troll poo in the morning...
May 7, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
So I take it your new identity will be "gotago"? Good luck helping HRC in her next senate race. I think she may need it.
May 7, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, this should have been posted upthread in reply to "gotalife"'s farewell address.
May 7, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Goatlife, I am convinced now more than ever that you are one of the rarest of rare creatures: an actual living person with a rectum at each end of the alimentary canal. With the constant effluence, I wonder at how you survive.
Good luck with the ESL, buddy.
May 7, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
GOODBYE
GOODBYE
goodbye
g'bye
bye
May 7, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
and with that, one of our resident little green football trolls calls his version of operation chaos a day.
he's back with his own people now
May 7, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Awwww... and we never did agree on that friendly avatar wager. Just as well... I would've won, but you would've run away, so what's the point?
And, some of you seem confused. Gotalife is NOT FOR HILLARY. IT attacks Democratic candidates. IT is a Republican troll here to disrupt, divide, and spread disinformation. IT only attacked Obama and praised Hillary because IT's party would prefer to face her in November.
We'll see IT again. Trolls never die, they just change names and avatars.
May 7, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Meanwhile, the problems keep piling up with no solutions and I fear for my country."
We do too. Wanna help us do something about it? Instead of fighting against the last, best chance for positive change?
May 7, 2008 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
This story is missing some key information.
McGovern is now backing Obama.
From the Sioux Falls Argus Leader:
http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080507/UPDATES/80507030
Superdelegate or not, McGovern is huge in South Dakota.
May 7, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
And don't forget that McGovern is someone seniors would know - and trust!
May 7, 2008 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
And SD's primary is June 3!
May 7, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
The writing is on the wall. Mr. McGovern is merely repeating it for all to hear. I suspect with Joe Andrews' defection, and now McGovern, we will begin to see supporters of Clinton flocking to the Obama banner.
May 7, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Shorter McGovern: kthxbye.
May 7, 2008 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Greg -
He is also now supporting Obama. Not just asking her to withdraw. He's changing sides.
May 7, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oops, you got it in the update. thx
May 7, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't Harold Ford urge her to quite last night? I do not get cable, so I am just getting this second-hand, but I thought that I had read that he had urged her to drop out.
May 7, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
HI, Missouri Voter. I don't get cable but, fyi, MSNBC webstreams all their primary coverage, so you can watch on your computer screen if you like.
May 7, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, thank you SO MUCH for your efforts in Indiana. It's because of you, and hundreds of committed volunteers like you, that the Indiana results were so great for Obama. Good on ya!
May 7, 2008 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!!! FOR HILLARY!!!!
May 7, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, Idiotic. You will need to pen a new trademarked phrase shortly :-)
May 7, 2008 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Might I suggest:
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!!! For McSame!!!!
~
May 7, 2008 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not at all. I'm looking forward to his posting of it on January 20, 2009 right after Obama is sworn in.
May 7, 2008 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
She could have run a more diginified campaign and ended up with more or less the same numbers in OH, PA, IN and NC.
Instead she opted for the ugliest road possible, and I don't think she will find too many sympathetic voice outside her strong base.
Not certainly from this Obama supporter. I'm waiting to vote against her for her Senate or Governer run in New York. Clintons have a lot of appeasing to do.
May 7, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. I would've forced myself to vote for her if she'd taken the nomination, but when she comes back home to NYS, I'm not signing on.
May 7, 2008 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
lol, why do people call Bill to discuss this kind of crap? Last time I checked Hillary was supposed to be the candidate, why is it that Bill is the one people always talk about endorsements with?
Oh wait, because Hillary's candidacy is all because of Bill and people who owe him favors.
May 7, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I thought that rather odd - who's the candidate here? My "feminist" radar went up rather quickly on that one, but I suppose as former President he deserves the deference. Still, though, it is strange...
May 7, 2008 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's call "girldar" and mine went off on that too. McGovern is the 4 superdelegate in the month who talked about calling Bill, then Hillary.
May 7, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is interesting. But there are really a number of possibilities. First, it may be that because Bill has been president they already have a direct relationship to him - more than with her. I doubt that if the tables had been reversed, politicians would be calling Michelle to ask Barak to drop out. It's a very different dynamic. Second, I think it gives a little bit of cover - calling Bill is an indirect appeal, while calling Hillary would be much more direct and confrontational. Plus, it allows the caller to feel-out the situation a bit and then make their case for dropping. Another possibility is that this has to do more with Bill than any of us actually realize. Maybe he's the driving force. Maybe he's the one that needs to hear it. Personally I don't think there is a sexist element to this, but on the other hand, I can totally get the 'girldars' going off on this and so maybe there is something to it.
May 7, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I told ya I love ya, now get out.
May 7, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is HUGE!!!!!
They have been extremely close for decades. The have a long and intimate history.
It's entirely possible he did talk to her. Perhaps the public declaration gives her a platform to exit the race graciously.
No matter what led to this announcement, it will have a tremendous echo within the party.
May 7, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's finished. Was finished since March....
May 7, 2008 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
A little earlier...
May 7, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, Carville can't call McGovern "Judas." That name has already been taken. How about Benedict Arnold? Or Brutus? Et tu McGovern!
As far as how the Clinonistas react, for sure they will denounce McGovern. They are a classless bunch.
May 7, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Anniversary of the Lusitania being sunk by a German U-Boat. It'll do, I guess.
May 7, 2008 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
As folk keep jumping out the back of the bus, the more it leans over the edge. Pretty soon, that sucker's falling into the chasm. Whoever's still on it needs to offload, pronto!
May 7, 2008 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
We all need everyone in the party to be as gracious as possible to HRC and her supporters. Not sure where McGovern's statements this morning fall on the graciousness scale--certainly, he could have waited a few more hours. One wonders if he had any coversation at all with HRC between last night and this morning.
May 7, 2008 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Be nice everyone! (see below)
May 7, 2008 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary = Huckabee
May 7, 2008 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
gotalife,
fighting hard for your candidate is admirable. My dad is a huge HRC supporter and we talk frequently, so I respect how difficult it is to watch your candidate loose a very close and exciting race.
From my point of view, I hope that if and when you feel like you could change your mind about Barack Obama...or at least re-examine his candidacy, please come back. Use your energy against McCain.
It is good to have a balance of opinions here.
May 7, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm w/ you Em
There's a place here for gotalife AND idiotic. It would be a sadder community without their participation.
May 7, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Emma & Jeffrey
Your attempts to be gracious toward Clinton supporters is appreciated. That is the right thing to do - and it always has been.
That said, you should know that gotalife is not for Hillary. Gotalife is a Republican troll. Really... no kidding! Gotalife derides other democratic candidate victories with a passion. No democrat does that - not even an independent cares that much. Gotalife is a Republican troll here to piss people off, sow seeds of doubt, spread misinformation, but most of all, erode Obama's support because the Republicans prefer to face Hillary in November. Gotalife does not engage in dialog, nor offers anything constructive to the TPM community. Many of us have learned to have fun with trolls like gotalife, RaeK, and fogu2, but Gotalife's departure (which I doubt is for real) is not a loss.
May 7, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Realistically I know that Clinton's chances are now extremely long. However, since I still believe her to be the better candidate I will support her as long as she decides to stay in the race.
Strange things can happen in politics and the fact is that this race is still fairly evenly split.
The real disappointment is the genuine viciousness of the Obamites. At the moment I feel I cannot support him at all. Partly becasue I feel he is not ready and largely because I do not want to give permission of license to the brutal partisanship I see as commonplace among the Obamites.
Obama may want to unify but I think that his supporters have anything but that in mind. They are simply the opposite side of the same coin as Bush. And that is intolerable for any longer.
May 7, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
There was never a chance of you supporting Obama. You've never liked him. Don't blame it on us.
And it's extremely hypocritical for Clinton or 80% of her supporters on this blog to accuse of Obama supporters of being vicious.
Look at your avatar, hypocrite.
May 7, 2008 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for making my point valid.
May 7, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hypocrite.
May 7, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Calling one a hypocrite isn't vicious if it is accurate.
And just to call out the obvious BS, if you can't support Obama because you feel he's somehow too much like Bush - an argument for another time - who're you going to support in November? McSame? You are as credible as your predictions, which have a 100% failure rate.
May 7, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you, fogu2, have been so genteel and tasteful. How about this kind of comment: "Are you whacking off to Obama?" Yours, of course.
I, for one, have really had enough of the the way the Clinton supporters have created this myth of how the other side is just hateful to them, and and rude and antithetical ot Obama's message. Sure, there are Obama supporters who are rude, but, believe me, some of the stuff I've read from Clinton supporters could truly curl your hair. They are more than capable of sneering and jeering and name-calling. So as far as I see it, the whole thing's a draw and it's time for you people to take an honest look at situation and stop the incessant whining.
If you don't want to vote for Obama, fine, don't vote for him. But please don't justify your choice based on the behavior of his supporters. There are many many reasons why I do not favor Hillary Clinton as a the Democratic candidate, but the behavior of her supporters is not one of them. And, by the way, as much as I did not and do not want this woman to win the nomination, I know I would have to vote for her.
So I think you ought to take a look at yourself, rather than projecting your own negativity and lack of generosity onto the other side.
May 7, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have that crappy avatar and see fit to complain about "viciousness" and "brutal partisanship"?
Of course, all of that assumes you are a real Clinton supporter and not some troll hack from LGF. Me thinks the latter, to be perfectly honest.
May 7, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
For once, you were doing fine and then blew it in the last two lines.
May 7, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking as a diehard Clinton supporter who will ride with her till the end (and no this is not yet the end but it's going to take a miracle), I know that i would be hard to pull the lever for Obama. Hillary's plans are more progressive and better for the party. She is a much tougher candidate who'd perform better in the generqal election etc etc etc.
As a NYer, I'll be wring in Hillary's name at the ballot becuase I believe in her as the best candidate. But I can do that because my vote doesn't matter in NY - we're democratic regardless.
If you are a democrat in a swing or close red, purple or even close call state, bring a post it with "Not McCain" if you must and put it over Obama's name before pulling the lever. Because he's going to need every vote in those areas he can get. Do you really want 3 more years of more troops in Iraq, borrowing from China to pay for the GWB/McCain irresponsible tax cuts, etc etc etc. Obama, flawed though he may be, is better than McCain.
Not that it will matter because Obama'll lose anyway but at least you can blame the democratic party & those who nominated an unelectable nominee versus blaming yourself for not paticipating in the process or even worse voting for McCain.
May 7, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, at least some of her supporters know her "Big States" argument is unmitigated bullshit.
May 7, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe her argument about the big important swing states like PA, OH, FL where Hillary outperforms Obama. Obama can win the democratic primary in wyoming by 90 - 10%. But in the end, it's republican through and through. Same for NY - it's going Democratic. Who's the best candidate to battle for the swing states between Obama & Hillary. Polls and performance say HRC.
May 7, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, as I said, "some supporters". Clearly not all. Not everyone can expect a full recovery from blindness.
May 7, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
If only all those idiot superdelegates understood the politics of this like you do.
May 7, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
This seems an altogether fair and fine a position to take. All I can say in response is that I expect good things of Obama when he gets into the office. I look forward to the day when his demonstrated accomplishments win you over to seeing the advantages of choosing him. I expect that you will be pleasantly surprised.
May 7, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
fogu is a republican. always has been. always will be. he's just here for kicks
May 7, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you, fogu2, have been so genteel and tasteful. How about this kind of comment: "Are you whacking off to Obama?" Yours, of course.
I, for one, have really had enough of the the way the Clinton supporters have created this myth of how the other side is just hateful to them, and and rude and antithetical ot Obama's message. Sure, there are Obama supporters who are rude, but, believe me, some of the stuff I've read from Clinton supporters could truly curl your hair. They are more than capable of sneering and jeering and name-calling. So as far as I see it, the whole thing's a draw and it's time for you people to take an honest look at situation and stop the incessant whining.
If you don't want to vote for Obama, fine, don't vote for him. But please don't justify your choice based on the behavior of his supporters. There are many many reasons why I do not favor Hillary Clinton as a the Democratic candidate, but the behavior of her supporters is not one of them. And, by the way, as much as I did not and do not want this woman to win the nomination, I know I would have to vote for her.
So I think you ought to take a look at yourself, rather than projecting your own negativity and lack of generosity onto the other side.
May 7, 2008 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
The haters, just like someone who is drunk, will never admit that, that is exactly what they are.
As I said I'm partly basing it on the hateful divisiveness. I'm also basing it on the perceived and likely real racial factor involved in the base of his support. I no more support that than I would support David Duke. To me that is also two sides of the same coin.
May 7, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll admit that I hate you fogu. Feel better?
And you don't like the racial overtones in his campaign (i.e. the fact that he's black and has black supporters), but the problem is their racism, not yours. Riiiight....
May 7, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Once again proving my point.
May 7, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Case in point.
May 7, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for admitting it.
May 7, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
You misunderstood the implied antecedent -- my bad. You are the case in point.
May 7, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
fogu, if you want to feel better about coming over to Obama just go spend a little time at taylormarsh.com so you can assure yourself that we Obamabots haven't cornered the market on hatefulness.
May 7, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
May 7, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, modified plagarism is a hallmark of the Obama mindset.
May 7, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
operation chaos is over. time to run back to little green footballs and free republic now.
no one is buying that you were ever a hillary supporter
May 7, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
No way in hell my girl's dropping out.
And I don't want to hear any of you Obamites crying about how Obama's got the charisma to turn out the youth vote and Hillary's killng the party's chances and blah buh dee blah blah blah. Those of us who are old enough to remember Youth for McGovern can attest to the fact that you can't count on the youth vote to turn out when you need them. Hillary's got the support that shows up when it counts.
May 7, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary is done. It turns out the country wants something else now. This generation of leadership has completely failed America. Clinton is the past two decades warmed over.
It's time for a change. And luckily, since her chances were completely 100% evicerated last night, we'll have a chance to bring that change about.
May 7, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, look at the name you're responding to. I think we can safely say that one was satire. (It is hard to tell, sometimes.)
May 7, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
True enough. I better take a break and raise my blood sugar.
May 7, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like yesterday?
May 7, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
How fitting! The original unelectable Democratic candidate now switching his endorsement so the Democratic party submits it's next kamikaze candidate. It would be funny if it wasn't so damn sad.
May 7, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Should we go with Clinton instead? Her negatives are above 50%? What happens in an election if over 50% of the voters don't vote for you?
May 7, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Depends on where those 50% are and in what state. In addition in presidential elections votes are not proportional, they are winner take all so Hillary's strong showing in big states would be a huge advantage electorally. In addition you don't have to like someone to respect their positions and policies and vote for them.
Obama's negatives are climbing in the 40% range and the republicans haven't even started yet. Hillary's been villianized for 16 years by the republicans right wing and then the Obama wing of the party has been villianizing her and Bill all through this campaign despite the laudable oratory about "new politics".
By the way the last president with favorable ratings below 50% to win an election was GWB.
May 7, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
"the Obama wing of the party has been villianizing her and Bill all through this campaign"
Is it really lost on you Clinton supporters that the Clintons chose to go very very negative on Obama as a campaign tactic over the last couple of months?
Do you really not see that at all? Or do you just see no evil/hear no evil?
There is no possible understanding of reality in which Obama did more to ruin Clinton over the last two months, than Clinton did to ruin him. There is just no possible way to spin reality that way.
May 7, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
With all due respect, your arguments are highly selective and include some false implications. I'll pick one:
Losing a big state in the primary means the candidate will lose it in the general. FALSE. Look at any Democratic nominee in in recent memory and you'll find they lost states in the primaries which they later won in the general - yes, including swing states.
Here's the real situation. PA went for Kerry last time. You think they'll go with McCain? No. Kerry was very close last time, and didn't win OH or FL, so all we need is one of those states, or a couple medium sized states to pull the lever for a Dem this time. OH and FL remain legitimate swing states with Obama and he may win one or both - and all it would take to win is one - but he doesn't have to win either. The key is that Obama puts into play a whole set of other states that Clinton doesn't. He brings new swing states into his equation. More swing states means more opportunities to win. More battlegrounds for McCain to try and defend. That is an advantage Clinton doesn't bring to the game.
Oh! The money. Let's not forget about the money. Obama crushed Hillary with fundraising. He'll do even better with McCain. So, he'll be attacking McCain on a large number of fronts and can afford to do it, while McCain will have to spread his relatively meager finances among so many states that he'll be ineffective.
Now, I know some of you doubt the young vote. But here's the difference. Obama's campaign is built on individual donations. And when people donate, they become invested. They're paying for the right to vote for the candidate again in November. Instead of young people who happen to get a little excited in the spring, but then lose focus in the fall, Obama's youth vote will be motivated to show up precisely because they paid for it. This is the beauty of his grassroots style campaign, and is the future of the Democratic party if the party is wise enough to see the benefits.
Wright/Ayers, etc. Come November, it's old news. The MSM likes fresh meat, and Wright/Ayers won't be fresh by this fall. As I've told many Obama supporters, Clinton has actually done Obama a favor by vetting the issues early in the campaign. McCain has been in the shadows of Clinton and Obama for months, so, as soon as this is over the MSM's attention will be focused on him, and they'll soon be hungry for the next bloodbath.
Another thought. Everyone knows Obama can do a speech, but many voters haven't heard much more than clips and sound-bites from his speeches. Most Democrats are tuned in, but a lot of voters tend to tune it all out until the conventions. Obama will rock the house with his acceptance speech, and he's gonna win some hearts and minds on that day. Mark my words - he'll get a hge bump in the polls and, if he wasn't already, he'll be in the lead and stay in the lead from that day on.
Final word on electability. Your arguments for Clinton's electability are belied by the fact that she isn't winning. The ultimate measure of one's electability is to be elected. Obama has won far more states and more of the popular vote, and more endorsements from uncommitted superdelegates. There is no measure (other than compiling stats based on cherry-picked poll data) by which Clinton can actually back her claim that she's more electable - even if we include Florida!!! It's smoke and mirrors. She's losing precisely because she is less electable.
Now, I understand that if you're a staunch supporter of Hillary, you may feel really disappointed in her not being the nominee. But ultimately, the point isn't who the nominee is, the point for anyone opposed to a 3rd Bush term with McSame is that the Democrat nominee win the GE. So, any talk of writing-in other names is counterproductive. I urge all Clinton supporters to please consider your priorities, and leave your personal feelings, over Clinton's loss, outside the door of the poling place come November. We all need to work together; united we stand, divided we fall.
May 7, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I don't know why Hillary even accepted an endorsement from that loser.
May 7, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I too think it's May 20th and I'm ok with it.
Hillary needs an exit strategy that allows her to leave on a high note and a victory in Kentucky will give her that....
I take comfort in knowing the race for all intents and purposes is over and Obama WILL be the nominee.
Now we all have to hope that Hillarys "bitter" supporters will put their emotions aside and support Barack...
May 7, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh yea,
another loser.... How many states did he win again? ONE??
May 7, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Strange, I don't remember you saying that before today. Hmmmm, what may have changed....
May 7, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since this primary pair was unofficially dubbed (at least by me) "Basketball Tuesday," let's play out an analogy. We are in the closing minutes of a game where the outcome is not in doubt, but the winning team is willing to let the losing team rack up some baskets in "garbage time." It may look "close" in the end, but the score belies the finality of the game. The game IS over, except for the clock expiring. That will likely happen on May 20...but it will happen. HRC cannot shoot enough 3-($million?)pointers in the time left to erase the point-spread, be it states won, pledged delegates, popular votes, pledges $s, or whatever. Think the 4th quarter of Sunday's Celtic-Hawks game. Time for the Finals! Basketball, Senator McCain?
May 7, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The haters, just like someone who is drunk, will never admit that, that is exactly what they are.[sic]
Now you've made it personal. I ALWAYS admit when I'm drunk.
May 7, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
McGovern's speaking from experience after Hubert Humphrey and other establishment forces pursued their own version of the "nuclear" strategy to keep him from the nomination in 1972. He had to fight tooth and nail all the way to the convention and, while he likely wouldn't have won the general anyway against a lawbreaking incumbent in a year when the economy was OK, it made him have to start it behind the eight-ball. I'm quite certain he doesn't want history to repeat itself when it comes to Obama or any Democratic nominee.
May 7, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here! Here!
May 7, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whatever good feelings I had about Hillary and Bill are long gone. They have made sure of that with their horrible campaign tactics. Now, whenever I hear her voice on the TV or radio, I hit the mute button.
However, in the unlikely chance the race comes down to HRC or McNasty, I'll grit my teeth and fill in the bubble next to her name. He'd be much worse as POTUS. Clueless, short-tempered and likely to leave us for a generation with Supreme Court justices more extreme than the 5 in the majority now.
Then whenever I hear her voice, I'll hit the mute button for another 4 years.
May 7, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
As Poppy Bush (or was it Dana Carvey?) was fond of saying, "Not gonna happen!"
May 7, 2008 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink