Hillary: It's Me And Ordinary Folks Against "Elite" On Gas Tax Holiday
Hillary Clinton has just started doing an Indiana town-hall meeting being broadcast on ABC, and George Stephanopoulos asked her a direct question:
Could she name a single economist who agrees with her support for the gas tax holiday?
Hillary sidestepped the question, and tried to use the complete dearth of expert support for the idea to her advantage, pointing to it as proof that she's on the side of ordinary folks against "elite opinion" -- a phrase she used twice.
"I think we've been for the last seven years seeing a tremendous amount of government power and elite opinion behind policies that haven't worked well for hard working Americans," she said.
A bit later she added: "It's really odd to me that arguing to give relief to a vast majority of Americans creates this incredible pushback...Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that don't benefit" the vast majority of the American people.
An ordinary voter begged to differ, however. Stephanopoulos turned the mike over to a woman who said she supported Obama and said she makes less than $25,000 a year.
"I do feel pandered to when you talk about suspending the gas tax," the woman said, adding: "Call me crazy but I actually listen to economists because I think they know what they've studied."
We'll be bringing you more from Hillary's town hall right here -- and at 10 AM, Obama is being interviewed by Tim Russert on Meet the Press. Stay tuned.
Talk about dead horses!
Hillary - Congress already turned you down.
The whole stupid idea is dead.
boy she really does count on voters being dumb, doesn't she?
May 4, 2008 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Elite opinion is always on the side of doing things that don't benefit..."
Hillary just called Paul Krugman an elitist!
May 4, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
More than that -- Hilary just called roughly half of the country "elitists". A CBS News / NYT poll found that 49% of respondents think the gas tax is a bad idea. (Compared to 45% who think it's a good idea.)
May 4, 2008 11:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why does Obama Fever make people soooooo dumb??? I would much rather the oil companies paid more tax and average people pay less tax! Why is that so hard to understand? That is what she is saying. SHIFT THE TAX BURDEN FROM THE POOR CONSUMER WHO IS STRUGGLING TO THE RICH CORPORATION THAT IS SWIMMING IN CASH !!! GET IT??
May 4, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's very, very little chance that tax would even happen, guy. Buy the Clinton line all you want. It's a load of horseshit.
I suggest you read this:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/135323
And at the end of the day, regardless of who pays the tax, this stupid plan increases American dependence of foreign oil. Hello?
May 4, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
There you have it: The Obama crowd DOESN'T want working people to have a penny of relief when it comes to gas prices. Why? Because they might drive more, and Obama's elitist text-messaging crowd wants to solve the energy crisis on the backs of working Americans.
You limousine liberals make me sick. It doesn't matter to you how much gasoline costs - you'll still have your chauffeur drive you everywhere you want at about 10 miles a gallon. But if working people want to take a summer vacation with their family - that you can't allow. When Obama loses in November, you'll know why.
May 4, 2008 9:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know why you're acting like an elite yourself, sitting here typing comments, when you should be picking me up in the limo right about now. You're already 5 minutes late. I swear if you don't get to my house soon to take me to the champagne tasting event, I'll fire you and hire someone who doesn't fancy literacy like you do, someone who will work for less. Get your ass moving, Mr. Smarty Pants!
May 5, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you'd ever taken a class in economics, you'd know that the tax burden from the increase will just be shifted back to the consumers. If you tax the consumer, they pay it. If you tax the corporation, they increase prices and the consumer still pays it.
May 4, 2008 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Almost. Here's how the economic theory goes:
If the government subsidizes consumers, demand rises, and some of the subsidy given to consumers is passed onto the producers as producers raise their price. If the government subsidizes producers, supply rises, and some of the subsidy given to producers is passed onto consumers as the producers lower their prices. It doesn't matter who the government subsidizes -- the producers or the consumers -- the economic incidence remains the same. Whichever has the greater price sensitivity (elasticity) -- the producer or the consumer -- gains the most from a subsidy.
The case is similar with taxes. If the government taxes consumers, demand falls, and some of the tax borne on consumers is passed onto the producers as producers decrease their prices. If the government taxes producers, supply falls, and some of the tax borne on producers is passed onto consumers as the producers raise their prices. It doesn't matter who the government taxes -- the producers or the consumers -- the economic incidence remains the same. Whichever has the greater price sensitivity (elasticity) -- the producer or the consumer -- bears the greatest burden from the tax.
May 4, 2008 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wait, Just the basic common sense argument. It is May 4. Has Senator Clinton being back to the Congress with her plan? Is her plan even on paper? If so, does anyone actually think it would happen before Memorial Day, May 25. That is in 21 days. The Speaker of the House and many members of Congress are against her.
I pray and hope IN and NC are smarter than that. Remember how long it took them to get us our rebate checks, months. And that is with the vote being approved at all level and even Bush saying OK.
This will not happen in 21 days and not even this summer.
May 4, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
To her, political reality *IS* reality.
Senator Clinton has a great love and appreciation for *ALL* the polls, and wants to make sure that each one of them are told whatever they need to be told in order to be happy.
May 4, 2008 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
And please tell me why she shouldn't count on voters, taken in the aggregate, being dumb? Have we already forgotten 2004?
May 5, 2008 1:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
For the most part, American voters are dumb
May 5, 2008 8:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes!
May 6, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary sidestepped the question, and moved cast the complete dearth of expert support for the idea to her as an advantage, pointing to it as more proof that she's on the side of ordinary folks against "elite opinion" -- a phrase she used twice.
What a load of BS ? LOL.
May 4, 2008 9:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
(i>"I do feel pandered to when you talk about suspending the gas tax," the woman said, adding: Call me crazy but I actually listen to economists because I think they know what they've studied."
Ding. You Go, "Girl".
This is fun.
May 4, 2008 9:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!!!
Another stupid American!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 4, 2008 9:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I do feel pandered to when you talk about suspending the gas tax," the woman said, adding: Call me crazy but I actually listen to economists because I think they know what they've studied."
One word: takedown.
Also: hasn't the Bush administration caused a whole hell of a lot of trouble precisely because they DIDN'T listen to experts? Like, real experts?
It seems everyone at that Town Hall meeting was taken for a trip to the No Fact Zone.
May 4, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Frankly, I'm pretty surprised they have Obama supporters there asking questions. Team Clinton probably won't be too happy about that. But it sounds from Ben Smith like she's treating Steph like a rag doll, so I'm sure that will go over well with all of her non-elitist supporters.
Do you know how horrific it is to have a Dem bash another Dem (the likely nominee) playing the "elitist" card? Which, of course, is code for "educated." Because God knows the last thing this country needs is a bunch of people aspiring to higher education.
I adore Hillary. Simply adore her.
May 4, 2008 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's unbelievable.
She's trotted out every single moss-covered long standing cliched smear on the Democratic Party ever used. Every one.
She is unbelievable. Yeah, I just adore her too. She's quite something.
May 4, 2008 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton has shown in this campaign that she is a fighter and will stand up for the things she cares about. However, as a senator she has been a total marshmallow, voting for the war and a flag burning amendment and triangulating her way to Republican lite. Isn't it clear to everyone by now that deep down the only thing she cares about is herself?
May 4, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
She never voted for the Flag Desecration Amendment. She has supported bills that ban flag burning when the event is used to incite violence, but she never, never has favored the Constitutional Amendment.
I voted for Barack Obama, but I feel we need to be truthful.
May 4, 2008 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's in the tank for McCain. There's really no doubt about it.
May 4, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree.
She's become almost Romney-esque in her clownish adorability.
May 4, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
"'I think we've been for the last seven years seeing a tremendous amount of government power and elite opinion behind policies that haven't worked well for hard working Americans,' she said."
Actually, I think the problem is that for the past 7 years this administration has been too willing to IGNORE expert opinion - in the areas of foreign policy, global warming, etc. This administration's well-documented war on science is one of the most disturbing aspects of the last 7 years.
May 4, 2008 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly.
She even double talks like a Republican. In fact she's got that down pat.
It really bugs me.
May 4, 2008 9:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
I totally agree. Too clever, by half.
Georgie Boy, elitist ??? WTF ???
May 4, 2008 9:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Heh. So even the rubes have figured out that the $50 "tax break" Hillary's promising won't do them any good?
Meanwhile, I wonder how many superdelegates she's turning off every day she continues to hammer on this "gas tax holiday" thing. People who, if she does what she's said she will do, will be forced to vote against it and will then see their Republican opponents use the vote in attack ads this fall.
Real smart.
May 4, 2008 9:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's a shame. With the sorry lot that they had, Hillary could have easily won the Republican nomination if only she had changed parties last year!
May 4, 2008 9:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fookin comment of the day!!!!
She's already told us how many times now? that if we just ran our primary like the fascists do, she'd already be the nominee.
May 4, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
.....does this woman even count? I mean she lives in INDIANA fer chrissakes. Not New York, not California, not even Ohio but INDY FREAKING ANA. Why is she even allowed to address Hillary? Was Hillary part of the elite in 2002 when she gave Bush permission to invade Iraq? Did she help deregulate the telecoms in 1996, which really really has benefitted the greater public at large (as our news industry has devolved into a rotted carcass). She has that as experience that we can count?
May 4, 2008 9:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is expert opinion suddenly mean so little, will she now delete all the "experts" she touts to boost her healthcare plan? Doubt it...
HRC = Bush 44. Opinion - like votes - only counts when it's on your side.
May 4, 2008 9:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Some elitist experts are more equal than others is the idea that transpires from the Cliton camp.
They sound more and more orwellian. They've been stuffing BS in a bubble that's bursting at the seams. There are signs it is overflowing.
May 4, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
You'd think that some of those experts she cited for approving of her healthcare plan back then would be a wee bit upset that Hillary is calling them elitists today!
Paul Krugman, for one...
May 4, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, she'd continue in the fine tradition of Dubya--ignore the people who have the knowledge and the answers, and the more people try to straighten you out, the more you dig your heels in.
May 4, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sometimes I'm surprised that Hillary's head doesn't just explode. Keeping so many lies up in the air has to take a tremendous effort!
What she said there is really rich. GW Bush's style of governing has been "we don't need to listen to experts because we know better". Sounds like Hillary would govern the exact same way.
May 4, 2008 9:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think Hillary has now dragged out every last canard Republicans love to use. Anti-intellectualism!!? Those over-educated economists who don't care about everyday folks?
McCain won't have to pay for ads against Obama he will just show clips of Hillary calling him elite, effeminate, and on the side of the educated. Nothing like rushing to the bottom and appealing to the lowest denominator. Don't remind them that you strove mightily to get into elite East Coast Ivy League schools. Go ahead and encourage folks to distain education.
No wonder people are drawn to Obama's message of "lifting folks up."
May 4, 2008 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
More Republican talking points against Democrats from Hillary! She is making the rope that will be her noose.
May 4, 2008 10:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't you know ? Controlling "noose" cycle is a big thingy with the Clinton camp.
May 4, 2008 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Last time I checked, cutting infrastructure and jobs in order to achieve a short term political gain is not a working class ethic... no self-respecting working class man or woman would blow their rent check on drinks for their buddies.
God bless the woman who called a spade a spade. It is a pander, a short term tax cut that puts people out of work. I shudder to think about my wife filling her tank, saving 50 cents, while a highway worker gets a pink slip. The concepts just don't reconcile with my moral decency... but then again, I'm an elitist.
May 4, 2008 10:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Where I live both MTP where Obama was being interviewed and TW are telecast at the same time. Needless to say, I watched the Obama interview and missed the Clinton Campaign event telecast for free to the whole country.
I did find the quote absolutely tasty:
Amen! Doesn't Hillary realize she's running for the nomination to the party that has been fighting the republicans on this sort of blatant anti-intellectualism? Are there ANY republican talking points, methods, procedures, etc., that Hillary won't deploy to undermine the clear Democratic frontrunner?
May 4, 2008 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Onondaga County -- up here in Upstate NY -- canceled its gas tax a few years ago. The price did not go down, the county finances suffreed and it was repealed. Senator Clinton should look to the state she is supposed to represent. But then -- as we have learned -- was NY state anyting more than a stepping stone for the senator.
May 4, 2008 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary's idea of "Elite" are those who can think for themselves, much like the GOP's talking points. Hillary has said that she will campaign for Obama for president after she loses the nomination, but will she be wanted? Or will she become the dick cheney of the dem party, our own little bull dog?
May 4, 2008 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Amazing! 23 posts and not a single Clinton supporter coming to bat for her. How long can it last?
May 4, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
May 4, 2008 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dare I ask what Clinton's response to the woman was? Is she another member of the factually based "elite"?
May 4, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Economist hae great 20/20 hindsight. The great economists and legislators are the ones that allow and cause this mess we're in. Now all of a sudden we want they're expert opinion as validation.
Nuts to that. I say common sense of shifting the burden to the oil companies not only makes sense but, if you oppose it you are rightly labeled an oil company shill.
Clinton is right.
May 4, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can you find at least *ONE* expert who agrees with the policy?
May 4, 2008 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
That agrees with what? That it will put more money in the pockets of consumers instead of oil companies? Find me an expert that disagrees with that. Everything they says regarding gas prices is based on theory.
Theory is what got us into the current economic mess so if you want to rely on their theories I'd suggest you just come out as a Republican.
Common sense is what will get us out of this mess. Tax the oil companies, not the people.
May 4, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
As in, thinks the gas tax holiday is an effective policy and will actually help consumers in any significant way and isn't merely a transfer of billions of dollars of government revenue to the oil companies. The tax is on the oil companies, here - they have the choice of whether to change their prices or not. You don't think they'd just rather...take the extra money for themselves? Oh, that's right - the oil companies hate money.
May 4, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
And please don't pull this folksy "who needs expert opinions anyway?" bullshit. That's the kind of crap that's been going on for 8 years that we're campaigning against.
May 4, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Idiot.
May 4, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
uh, I was referring to Fogu2. Sorry about the confusion.
May 4, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Take a memo!
"Theories" are things that only elitist commie-liberals should use! Salt of the Earth(TM) Hillary Clinton "$100 million" knows that we U.S. Americans go off our gut!
May 4, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, common sense is what got us into this mess. George W. Bush relies more on his gut and on "common sense" than any president in recent history. And he has been a miserable failure. And Hillary would be a miserable failure too. Just like she was a miserable failure when she tried to push through Hillarycare, and just like she was a miserable failure when she voted to invade Iraq, and just like she's a miserable failure in managing her own campaign.
Common sense and 4 bucks gets you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. What we need is expert opinions, and a president who's willing to listen.
May 4, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
By "hitting the oil companies" with Hillary's tax holiday, do you mean passing that windfall profit tax to pay for the loss in jobs and money caused by the tax holiday? As in passing a bill now? As in George Bush signing a bill that hits his oil buddies to make up for the lost money and jobs to fix road that would be caused by this tax holiday now?
Sure. Now that's a plan mired in reality.
May 4, 2008 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I knew it was just a matter of time before someone shameless enough to vouch for ignorance would chime in -- we can always depend upon you, fogu2!
May 4, 2008 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
wow, now I'm one of the "Elites" ???
just a matter of time before I'm one of the "Beautiful People" too
talk about being willing to say anything ...
May 4, 2008 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course. "Elite" = "does not agree with HRC." That is certainly a growing population.
May 4, 2008 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink