Audio Of Hillary: Are Members Of Congress "With Us Or Against Us" On Gas Tax?
The battle between the two Dems over the "gas tax holiday" heated up on the trail today over Hillary's assertion that she was going to propose gas-tax-holiday legislation to see if members of Congress are "with us or against us" in battling the oil companies.
Obama claimed today that the "with us or against us" language had been borrowed from President Bush -- fightin' words indeed in a Dem primary.
Here's some audio of Hillary saying this on the trail last night...
Hillary, speaking of members of Congress, said: "I want them to tell us, are they with us or against us when it comes to taking on the oil companies?"
Hillary's throwing down of the gauntlet here could increase pressure on members of Congress -- who are also the super-delegates she's courting -- to take a position on the gas tax.
Obama has decided to engage Hillary more directly in the gas-tax-holiday fight, releasing a second ad today responding to her earlier ad hitting him for his refusal to embrace the idea. And on the trail this morning, Obama sought to ridicule her remarks.
"She even borrowed one of President Bush's favorite phrases, and said that every member of Congress had to tell her -- `are they with us or against us?' Obama said.
It's unclear as yet how the issue is cutting politically in Indiana. Obama's decision to engage the issue more forcefully is inconclusive on this question. It could either reflect a belief that she's got him on the defensive on the issue, or a belief that it makes it easier to cast her as a pandering politician, or a bit of both.
For their part, the Hillary campaign says that their internal polling shows that her gas-tax-holiday talk is persuading working people that she identifies with the economic strain they're suffering. Full transcript of Hillary's remarks after the jump.
Hillary's full remarks:
"My opponent, Senator Obama says, "That is not a good idea; that is just a gimmick." And my other opponent, Senator McCain he says, yes, let's do that but let's not pay for it. I think we've got to be responsible about it because the money won't go into the Highway Trust Fund and we need to keep repairing and building and maintaining our roads. So I think we should go after the oil companies."I believe it would be important to get every member of Congress on record. Do they stand with the hard-pressed Americans who are trying to pay their gas bills at the gas station, or do they, once again, stand with the oil companies? That is a vote I am going to try to get because I want to know where people stand, and I want them to tell us. Are they with us or against us when it comes to taking on the oil companies?
That's all short term. Here's what we've got to do long term. We've got to have a Strategic Energy Fund that would invest in new technologies that would unleash the ingenuity and the innovation of the American people."
And we believe the Restoration Campaign? No, we don't.
:)
National internals show that nobody trusts her much.
May 2, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The daily Gallup poll is out. Obama has fallen six points behind McCain.
May 2, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is toast.
May 2, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
And he's up two points against Clinton.
Face it, your gal can't take him down.
May 2, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
"with us or against us"
holy crap! She realy has become like bush/rove
May 2, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama has jumped on the gas tax issue as part of his effort to change the subject from Jeremiah Wright.
May 2, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, that must be why every economist and expert out there has jumped on it as well. Couldn't be that it is a horrible idea, a Republican pandering ploy could it? Oh no, it is just Obama trying to change the subject!
Yeah right.
May 2, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I call that playing the "policy" card. Durned politicians and their legitimate concerns about issues confronting voters.
May 2, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Playing the policy card! I love it! I'm stealing it.
May 2, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
He also happens to be right, which is more than your candidate can say!
May 2, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Taking on oil companies apparently = giving them $10 billion:
http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2008/05/hillary-goes-after-democrats-in.html
Way to take them on Hillary! Who needs Republicans when we have you to give corporate handouts to oil companies and then pretend you did it for the average consumer.
May 2, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's decision to engage the issue more forcefully is inconclusive.
Huh, What exactly does this sentence mean, honestly ?
May 2, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
What you've never heard of an "inconclusive decision"?
May 2, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's really a Bush line because it's not his "with us or against us" line but it's also a bit of a strawman; since her gas tax holiday doesn't take on the oil companies anyway. Maybe the windfall tax but that has no chance of passing under Bush anyway!
May 2, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
PIC - Panderer in Chief!
May 2, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sad. This rhetoric really does sound like Bush II. (Maybe I exaggerate, a little.)
I suppose if she somehow wins this nomination out of this kind of demagoguery, I might have to pull a lever for her.
But I'm not sure I'd be doing the country a favor.
Anyway, I'm just sad. Sometimes, I can revel in learning that Clinton has done "another bad thing," so I can substantiate my own bias against her. However, when it comes right down to it, I would much rather her be a good politician I could trust.
May 2, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well that was fun.
I'm a member of James Van's org - Color of Change, and I just signed their petition to Howard to not let the nomination get stolen from the front runner.
If anyone else is interested, I have the email with the link still.
May 2, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
The fact that Clinton supporters across the net have latched on to this as proof that she cares about the 'common man' is really, really revealing; of the nature of ignorance, and how it can affect an election.
The funny thing is that the vast majority of them don't care if it's pandering, or even truthful; they don't mind if she has to lie to win. Pretty sad.
May 2, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Us"?
"Us" meaning Hillary Clinton and John McCain?
May 2, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good point - what "us" is she talking about.
Yeah I would have thought a Democrat would try to avoid Bushisms like "you're either with us or against us."
Honest to god - why doesn't she just switch and run as McCain's Veep?
May 2, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe Obama's position reflects a belief that it's bad policy. . . regardless of what the polling says. You know, maybe it reflects actual presidential leadership and not posturing.
May 2, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another hour goes by, and HRC surrogates Greg Sargent and Eric Kleefeld pretend as though the Kantor YouTube doesn't exist.
Ed Schultz is all over it on his radio show right now.
May 2, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
O this has legs like a centipede!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 2, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's because it doesn't exist.
May 2, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
They are unhinged.
I feel sorry for them.
May 2, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, Hillary. You just trust that Mark Penn polling.
May 2, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Isn't the rising price due in large part to the fall of the dollar, since oil is traded in dollars? Isn't the fall of the dollar due in large part to deficits and low interest rates to bail out banks? Wouldn't addressing those issues make more of a difference than a short tax holiday?
May 2, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm no economist but I think "large part" might be overstating it.
It is a part of it for sure. But it's really as I understand it a simple supply and demand problem and the demand from China and India is enormous.
But the falling dollar certainly doesn't help and it will really hurt if OPEC decides to pin the cost of oil to the euro - which has been threatened more than once.
May 2, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
And I can tell you, India taxes the gas at around 45%.
May 2, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
All the blog reports on her gas tax proposal are woefully incomplete (including this one!). If anyone bothers to actually listen or read what she is actually proposing (instead of parroting reports like this), they find out that she isn't just supporting a 'gas tax holiday.'
VERY IMPORTANT -- she's also proposing a WINDFALL PROFITS TAX on the oil companies, to make up for the lost revenue & head off the probable manipulation and collusion that invariably goes along with these price run-ups. Its logical, specific, smart and clear -- what's Obama's solution, other than to veto others'? He hasn't been very specific -- big surprise!
Of course, the modern media sensationalism and bias (cable talk shows & blogs) will fail to fulle report her actual proposal, preferring to report it partially and in a misleading way.
May 2, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
But, you do realize that there's no way in hell that Congress is going to pass either the tax cut OR the windfall tax on the oil companies? And that Bush wouldn't sign either one?
Jeez
It's shameless pandering. It's not an actual plan. It's a plan designed to buy your vote. She might as well say 'I think the gov't ought to give everyone 100 dollars, vote for me!!!!'
May 2, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Show us how she plans to get a WINDFALL PROFITS TAX through Congress (and signed by the oil man we have as president) and show us how this tax is going to be equivalent or more than what would be collected via the gas tax.
May 2, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Number one, the windfall profits won't pass and isn't even being put on the table. For that matter, neither is the gas tax holiday. Just bluster.
Secondly, the oil companies will not pass on the savings from the gas tax holiday, especially if they were actually to get hit with a windfall profits tax.
Thirdly, this gimmick doesn't do one thing to correct the high price of gas at the pump. It's just that--a gimmick.
May 2, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
A) a windfall profits tax on the oil companies ain't gonna pass this year, for sure. It may never pass.
B) What are the results at the pump of passing a windfall profits tax? Will the oil companies just pass the costs onto the consumers? I want to see some economic analysis on that before declaring it a good idea. Clinton has no credibility on the economics of the gas tax holiday, so I'm not going to take her word for it on the windfall profits tax.
May 2, 2008 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even if the windfall tax *did* pass- there is absolutely nothing they could do to prevent the oil companies from then passing on that cost to consumers. It's even more of a zero-sum-gain feel-good move than mccain's policy.
The only way that they would truly be able to prevent the oil companies from passing the cost on would be to institute price controls. And that is dangerous territory, indeed.
May 2, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's talking as if that windfall profits tax already exists, and it doesn't. But a lot of those she's pandering to won't bother to find that out. She's pretty good at saying things that aren't quite real.
May 2, 2008 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another major rookie mistake by Obama doing nothing on gas prices.
May 2, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
do you understand "supply and demand"?
if gas prices go down, demand goes up. And since supply won't increase, that means PRICES WILL.
This "tax holiday" is bad policy. it really is.
Besides, whats to stop the oil companies from raising their prices 18 cents to offset the tax? Consumers will still be paying the same,but big oil will get to keep it all for themselves.
May 2, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, please find an expert that supports the gas tax holiday.
May 2, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
hey, hillary.
i'm all for taking on the oil companies. its just too damn bad that your idiotic "tax holiday" is pretty much the opposite of taking them on.
May 2, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Breaking:
Hillary Clinton labels the US Senate, Congress, and Senator Obama an Axis of Evil.
May 2, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's hilarious, liam
May 2, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I wouldn't put it past her to eaxctly say that. Watch out in the coming days. She will squarely blame the congress (and Obama) just like she blamed Gore (for not getting elected!!!!!) for her NY "300,000 new jobs plan".
May 2, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Hillary will you be the keynoter at the GOP convention in St. Paul?
May 2, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Big oil loves Obama and got their money's worth.
First, he voted yes on the oil bill.
Now he does nothing to lower the price.
Bought and paid for.
May 2, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
you're just a liar.
May 2, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, I look at his actions and did not drink the kool aid.
May 2, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
maybe you should drink some of that jonestown koolaid though. the tpm comments would be better off if you did.
May 2, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
You really are just ignoring reality aren't you?
Even your favorite economist, Paul Krugman, thinks this is stupid. Clinton is trying to give 'working-class' Americans sloppy blowjobs at the expense of our national infrastructure.
May 2, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dead wrong as usual.
Do a little research.
May 2, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean like reading every single economist in all the major newspapers of America?
Because they all hate the idea.
May 2, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, notorious Troll, why don't you link to a refutation? 'cuz, yaknow, the other side can provide many, many examples of economists who will patiently explain to you the inelasticity of the Summer gasoline market.
May 2, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Up is down, red is blue, back is forth, lee is starboard and gotalife understands this proposal.
May 2, 2008 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
er... port is starboard, i believe. but everyday IS opposite day in goatlife's head.
May 2, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
What are the chances of getting Bush to sign a windfall profits tax? What are the chances of overturning a veto?
Either she knows this is a bad idea and she's counting on others to stop her from committing it or she's too stupid to be president. Either way, it doesn't look good.
May 2, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Breaking:
Hillary Clinton promises the people of Indiana that if she becomes president, she will continue to blame George W. Bush for letting her husband, Bill Clinton, sell the Magnequench plant to China, and shut it down in Indiana.
Shame on George W. Bush for allowing President Bill Clinton to send those good Indiana manufacturing jobs to China.
May 2, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Hillary's throwing down of the gauntlet here could increase pressure on members of Congress -- who are also the super-delegates she's courting -- to take a position on the gas tax."
Does it make any sense to back those that you're trying to "court" into a corner? Don't you think all of those undeclared Superdelegates are going to be a little ticked off to be pressured on something like this? Just like her healthcare fiasco....she really knows how to win friends and influence people.
May 2, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is what I was wondering too. She's either really sure that she has as many superdels in her pocket as she's gonna get, or she's just plain stupid. If I was one of the "undecided" supers and she threw me under the bus like that, I wouldn't exactly feel too friendly towards her.
May 2, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Every day I wake up thinking this campaign can't get any more riduculous and every day I'm wrong.
I'm actually not so surprised that nonsense like this appeals to certain low-information voters. What I am surprised at is that it doesn't offend Hillary's real base of educated progressives enough to drain support. If Obama started using the tactics that Hillary uses I'd be disgusted enough to move away from him. Her supporters, though, just seem to such it all up, however silly or even vile the day's tactics are.
May 2, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Times reports that even the members of Congress who support Clinton aren't going to support this gas tax.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/02/clinton-presses-on-gas-tax-holiday/#comment-958575
May 2, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama gave a great press conference on this today:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/02/obama-compares-clinton-to_n_99813.html
We've had a good example of this lately, with the so-called gas tax holiday that Senator Clinton is proposing. At best, this is a plan that would save you pennies a day for the summer months; that is, unless gas prices are raised to fill in the gap, which is just what happened in Illinois, when we tried this a few years ago. Just this morning, there was an article in the paper about how the real beneficiaries of this tax holiday would be the oil companies, who'd walk away with billions more in profits.
May 2, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damned formating! The last paragraph there should also be in blockquotes.
May 2, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, nothing like invoking the famous "with us or against us" words and attitude of GW Bush to make Dems feel all warm and fuzzy. Interestingly, its use here is also to promote something that's not what it seems to be.
May 2, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you want another oil man, Oilbama, in the WH?
Or Clinton that will take them on?
The choice is clear for the American people.
We do not need another oil man, Oilbama, in the WH.
May 2, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's not taking them on. The proposed tax holiday would hand the oil companies billions of dollars. Billions. With a B. Money that otherwise would have gone into our infrastructure and provided hundreds of thousands of good jobs in the process.
Just thank heavens that the rest of congress isn't quite as desperate as Clinton.
May 2, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Schrodinger's point is an important one- if you need a large majority of the remaining superdelegates to win, is it really a good idea to publicly trash, and to make matters worse implicitly threaten, a large bloc of them?
Always, her campaign is about moment to moment tactics with no strategic vision at all. That's how she blew a nomination that was handed to her on a silver platter
May 2, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mike Bloomberg just today said about the Gas Tax Holiday idea:
"about the dumbest thing I've heard in an awful long time, from an economic point of view."
Link: http://www2.nysun.com/article/75697
May 2, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
The news I would like to read. That every member of congress takes her up on her offer and says - "dumb idea!" Then again, the Hillary camp would accuse them of piling on.
May 2, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Breaking:
Hillary Clinton warns anti fas tax holiday, members of congress, that she will follow them to the gates of hell.
May 2, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you've misquoted her.
She said she will follow them to the gates of hell and obliterate them.
May 2, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Breaking:
Hillary Clinton warns anti gas tax holiday, members of congress, that she will follow them to the gates of hell,
and treat them like they were a pack of Tuzla Snipers.
May 2, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wonder where President Clinton is ?
OMG, he has been making 6 stops a day in rural NC.
Yup, upset.
Game changer.
May 2, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, Bill Clinton's schedule is fucking ridiculous. I'm almost amazed he hasn't dropped dead yet from exhaustion.
Hillary Clinton has a former president campaigning for her. She's the 'establishment' candidate, through and through. And the establishment candidate always hangs on to the bitter end, even when they lose.
May 2, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes and the establishment always fights change.
Always always always.
May 2, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't the 1960 Primary Race go all the way to the convention?
But in the end, the anti-establishment won. It was Kennedy, not Johnson, atop the ticket.
May 2, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good. The more exhausted he gets, the more likely we'll see the wagging finger and the red face.
Incoherent, ranting Bill is EXCELLENT NEWS!! for HILLARY!!!
May 2, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Game changer."
She can't overtake Obama in pledged delegates, states won, or the popular vote - game changer thwarted.
May 2, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
The people of rural NC are honored to have a former President come to their towns and talk to them. Respect and loyalty, something you folks have none.
They will vote for Clinton .
She will win NC.
They deserve to win.
May 2, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
The People of Rural North Carolina better hide their women, while Bill the Molester is in their neck of the woods.
May 2, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who are "they" and why do the "deserve to win"?
There is only one Clinton running for President this time, sorry!
May 2, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Indeed. She was down the hill from us in Hendersonville just shy of an hour ago.
A friend was passing by and called to let us in on it - held his phone to the air so we could join in.
They were apparently so honored that a good number of the crowd had taken to booing. I'm sure it's some sort of new-fangled applause that only a true insider like goatlife understands, but perhaps a bit avant-garde for this area.
And no, I asked him to confirm. It was "boo." Not Boo-urns, though why we'd assume Monty Burns would've been there is beyond me now in retrospect.
May 2, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
By 30pts, right?
May 2, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Way to woo those superdelegates, Hillary. I'm sure that congressional members of your own pary love being the straw horse in your losing arguement.
May 2, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't worry she's already lost the Congressional Super Delegates so there isn't much danger for her in this one; unless more switch away from her to Obama!
May 2, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary Clinton panders to voters by proposing gas tax holiday.
Senator Obama and Congress reply:
Well Woop-De-Doo!!!
May 2, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
SHAME ON YOU HILLARY.
I DEMAND YOU DROP OUT NOW!!! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
May 2, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know what? She's just so not with us - she is against us! We could do something about high gas prices - it's called creating a greener transportation system and higher fuel standards. We cannot and won't give universal health care to all, fix our crumbling bridges and pump more funds in to public transportation system improvements while we cut revenue in the Federal Government.
When did Hillary Clinton become a Republican? When did a so called progressive ever cut funds that go directly to public works projects like summer road construction jobs? Perhaps Hillary would consider Governor Pawlenty as her running mate - she evidently subscribes to his idea of defunding important projects like bridge repairs.
The gas prices will come down when demand goes down. A brighter idea would be to go after a windfall tax on the oil companies that is then spent on tax rebates to truckers who are delivering our food and goods to consumers. This would be a hard bill to oppose and it would help us regular folks who can't even buy rice in America today!
May 2, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hhhhmmm let's think about this,...Hillary and Mc Cain want to cut your cost of gas by 4.5%(18cents per gallon at 4$) this summer while we still have no legitimate answer why it's jumped by 10-15%($3.50 to $4.00).
So by that token,...the oil companies are still making at least 10% more profits. Thank-you Hillary for standing up to the oil companies,....America needs you more than ever right now. Now with all that money i saved over the summer(12 gallons/week x 14 weeks= $30), I can buy a couple bags of rice.
I thought only republican were allowed to try and buy votes while corporation profit more.
May 2, 2008 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
So what is Hillary going to say when the Democratic congress shuts her stupid idea down?
Is she going to run against the Democratic congress now?
May 2, 2008 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
The worst part about this is how it meshes with her statements about Iran and the Middle East during the PA debate.
It's three A.M. in the White House, and the telephone is ringing. Luckily, President Clinton is there to alternate between incoherent obscenities and threats directed towards Medvedev on the other end of the line before slamming the phone down and ordering a nuclear attack on Russia.
Slight exaggeration, I know, but it's still troubling that I can picture her doing that.
May 2, 2008 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Against.
May 2, 2008 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink