« Gore: My Stepping In As Nominee Is "As Remote As You Can Possibly Imagine" | Home | Obama Campaign Offices In Terre Haute Targeted By Bomb Threats »
Harold Ickes: We Have A "Number" Of Super-Dels Ready To Move To Hillary
Hillary's chief delegate hunter, Harold Ickes, claims in an interesting new interview with Time mag that he's bagged some big super-del game for Hillary:
"There are a number of people who have told us they are very pro-Hillary but they have circumstances that they want to wait until those circumstances come into effect before they move."
Look, we've heard media reports again and again that a big bloc of super-dels were about to move to Obama en masse. Though Obama has obviously had a steady stream of them heading his way for months now, and is getting awfully close to tying her in super-del support, none of these big dramatic movements ever materialized.
I'd argue that any promises from Ickes that a number of super-dels will soon move into her camp should be greeted with even more skepticism.
Advertisement
What is a "big super-del"
Do some count more than others?
May 6, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think that is one of the specials at Taco Bell.
May 6, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Make that Del Taco.
May 6, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was going to say del taco but thought they went out of business.
May 6, 2008 5:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
You Obama people better call in more bomb threats, to drum up B.O. sympathy and HRC backlash.
May 6, 2008 5:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
That would be a 6'7" 375 pound superdelegate.
May 6, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ickes told me that Hillary already has the support of a large majority of Democrats, and the majority of American voters, many of whom are just waiting for the right time to vote for her.
May 6, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Howdy-Doody Time?
May 6, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lol. too true.
May 6, 2008 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Liar, liar, her testicles are on fire.
May 6, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Luckily Hillary has three testicals. She can afford to lose one in a freak pubic hair curling accident.
May 6, 2008 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ouch!!!!
May 6, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Knock it off.
May 6, 2008 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
and I should have added: You're better than that.
May 6, 2008 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yuck!!!!
May 6, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
May 6, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
0 is technically a "number" right?
May 6, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gee, I'm math impaired and even I know you don't have to put quotes around that - yes, zero is a number.
The Arabs proved that and gave us that gift.
May 6, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, she has 20 TIMES that many.
Let's see now, what is 20 times zero? oh, oh!
May 6, 2008 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
With more defections, we could be looking at a negative number.
May 6, 2008 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
We'll find out soon enough.
May 6, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not holding my breath.
May 6, 2008 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
A number? One is a number. Let's see what that number is later then, okay?
May 6, 2008 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wouldn't it be Hill-areous if she finally got one only to have two of the super dels already pledged to her defect to Obama?
The Judas'!
May 6, 2008 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
1 is the loneliest number
May 6, 2008 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, the circumstances being hell freezes over and Hillary wins with at least 70% of the vote in both NC and Indiana.
May 6, 2008 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would those circumstances involve Obama being hit by a meteorite?
May 6, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
lol, that's what I was thinking.
May 6, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
"For example, if we get the pledged delegate lead. Oh shi-"
May 6, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!!!!
May 6, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
The circumstances probably are that Clinton must take a lead in pledged delegates. Ain't gonna happen.
May 6, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, that is the best editorializing I've ever seen you do. Bravo!
I totally agree; trust nothing Hillary's Renfros say.
May 6, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm waiting for him to bust out, "No. I am not scared, and neither should you be!"
May 6, 2008 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you think Ickes and gotalife might be one and the same?
May 6, 2008 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I doubt it, Gotalife is a Republican Dittohead engaged in Operation Chaos.
May 6, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh yeah. It's just they both have a penchant for making bold predictions that never materialize. Stiil, birds of a feather...
May 6, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd say claims from the Clinton campaign about just about anything at this point should be treated with skepticism, and not because people outside the Obama campaign made similar statements in the past.
The Clinton campaign hasn't been forthcoming in terms of fundraising totals. That's been demonstrated.
They've declared some states important, other states not important, some caucuses as unfair, and basically said that the only states that matter are the ones that Hillary has won.
Hillary's willingness to pander shamelessly, to present herself as something she most certainly is not, and their willingness to do just about anything to get the nomination...all of these suggest that Howard Ickes, and everyone else with the campaign, isn't exactly credible.
He's trying, desperately, to hang on to the superdelegates that they already have. He's saying, in essence "We've got more. You won't be alone". He's doing this so that they don't all jump ship tomorrow morning.
It's part of the 1436 steps that the Clinton campaign must execute in order to tear this party apart at the convention.
Sorry for the rant.
May 6, 2008 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Much appreciated.
May 6, 2008 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, many of us are thinking it, thanks for saying it!
May 6, 2008 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not even a rant. The point about them doing this to hold on to what they have is very valid.
The LA TImes piece yesterday suggested there are many leaners in California and their reaction to the Joe Andrew flip was almost comical in the despiration.
May 6, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps those "circumstances" involve not having to make the endorsements public, thereby avoiding association with a desperate, nasty, and unsuccessful enterprise?
May 6, 2008 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nah, it's when Obama sprouts Bin Laden's face on the backside of his head while removing the traditional Somali wrap... just like the stuttering 'Dark Arts' professor in the first Harry Potter episode reveals Voldemort's parasitic mug. Muahahahah!
Seriously though, he's probably referring to supers from states that haven't voted yet. That's all. Or, they're like Richardson: just buying time and letting Ikes believe what he wants to believe until the primaries have run their course and they make their own decisions.
I've speculated that each campaign has a number of supers lined up and waiting, and they've been releasing them strategically. If that's true, there could be something to this. But, I think there would be more to gain by Clinton releasing them now - to portray an image the the major party players are coming back to her, but that clearly isn't happening as evidenced by defections from the Clinton camp, but none the other way, and Obama's slow but steady advance. The only alternative is to save them at a later date, but I fail to see where the advantage is in that. A mid-june surprise? To what end? This sounds more like just a confidence-building statement for donors and supporters - more talk than substance. But we'll see.
May 6, 2008 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nah, it's when Obama sprouts Bin Laden's face on the backside of his head while removing the traditional Somali wrap...
Thanks for the laugh!
May 6, 2008 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hopefully IN voters will make all of this moot in a few hours. Not holding my breath but how sweet that would be !
May 6, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
When was the last time Harold Ickes told the truth about anything?
))))))))))))))))-crickets-((((((((((((((((((
May 6, 2008 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's one of those comments that shuts the shit down cause it's all that needs to be said.
May 6, 2008 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those super delegates are waiting to receive their
Little Orphan Hillary decoder rings.
"Be sure to drink your Ovaltine."
May 6, 2008 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
When pigs fly
When hell freezes over
May 6, 2008 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
When monkeys fly out my butt.
May 6, 2008 4:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
When frozen monkeys, recently of Hell, riding flying pigs emerge from Goatlife's butt...
May 6, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now you're making me hungry.
Meheheheh.
May 6, 2008 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg is completely in the tank for Obama! Stop editorializing and give us the Clinton spin straight!
May 6, 2008 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
So essentially what he's saying is you shouldn't trust the rumors about a pro Obama pool of delegates but instead there is a pro Clinton pool of delegates. Ok. Yeah. Sure. Right. 28 more days of this nonsense to go.
May 6, 2008 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think this story was fair. Greg said we should treat Ickes' claim with "even more skepticism."
May 6, 2008 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a regular complainer about Greg's slant, I better rise to his defense. I can't imagine a more even-handed post. It is a fact that, on several occasions, rumors have floated about an impending huge announcement of scores of supers for Obama, yet those rumors have never materialized. Greg is accurately reporting the facts, here. And even taking a shot at Team Hillary's credibility!
Frankly, Greg, I'm gonna have to ask you to go back to your underhanded Hillary-shill ways. What will we complain about the next couple weeks?!
May 6, 2008 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can't you just imagine "a number" of super Ds, receiving their 98th phone call from Ickes, saying "Howard, I'm all with you guys. I'm no Judas. I just have to wait a little longer" -- hoping, of course, to stall until she has dropped out and can no longer come for them with her machete.
May 6, 2008 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of these SDs probably is Heath Shuler (NC-11), who pretty certainly supports Senator Clinton --- and even hosted Bill Clinton at church last weekend --- but who has promised to throw his vote to whomever wins his district (not his state) today.
JA
Asheville, NC
May 6, 2008 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of these SDs probably is Heath Shuler (NC-11), who pretty certainly supports Senator Clinton --- and even hosted Bill Clinton at church last weekend --- but who has promised to throw his vote to whomever wins his district (not his state) today.
JA
Asheville, NC
May 6, 2008 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
This bluff will be called by the Obama camp in the next week.
Put up or shut up Harold.
May 6, 2008 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I suspect that Rep. Heath Shuler (NC-11) is one of Ickes' SDs.
Shuler pretty transparently supports Senator Clinton and even hosted Bill Clinton at his (Shuler's) church last weekend.
Shuler has promised to throw his vote to whomever wins his district --- not his state --- today, and Ickes probably is counting NC-11 as a Clinton win.
The vote in western NC outside of Asheville will be much closer than the statewide NC vote.
JA
Asheville, NC
May 6, 2008 4:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm surprised that Greg didn't point out the huge distinction between media rumors that Obama has this secret cache of Judases and the out-and-out claim by a senior Clinton official that he has his own buried treasure of loyal delegates.
May 6, 2008 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good point. NO ONE in the Obama Campaign Official has ever made Superdelegate claims. The closest I've heard is Claire McKaskill's allusions to him leading amoung unannounced congressional delegates.
May 6, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's an important distinction that these rumors were spread about Obama, not by him (or his camp), as is the case here with camp Hillary.
This is total posturing. Just like her claimed income and her fundraising numbers.
In Obama's case, he did have the SD's, he just released them one a day instead of in the rumored block. Let's see how Hillary rolls these out.
Oh right, they're "waiting".
May 6, 2008 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tom Brokaw was the primary spreadee, in one case, wasn't he?
May 6, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but I don't think he was necessarily wrong. I think Obama didn't know what to do with them either. Whether to lay down all the cards or one at a time.
I think they made the right choice, given the length of the race, letting the faucet drip...
May 6, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
What will I ever post about once the Clinton campaign ends and stops saying such stupid crap?
May 6, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just picture the McCain jokes, inching along with their walkers, reaching to the horizon.
May 6, 2008 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
. . . lol yep! The supers who witnessed her dodging sniper fire in Bosnia will be there for her when she takes the remaining states by 70%.
May 6, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think that Ickes is starting to channel Joe McCarthy:
"I have here in my hand a list of 205 . . . a list of names that were made known..."
the question is whether 205 would be enough?
May 6, 2008 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the key part of that sentence is: "they want to wait until those circumstances come into effect."
That's a qualifying statement that can mean anything. If those circumstances don't come into effect, then what? Then those same Supers go to Obama. Nice spinning, Ickes. But at least he got his headline.
May 6, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
The thing is everyone in the know knows it is over and nobody wants to be on the wrong side of things when the match is called.
May 6, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right-o.
What this means is that there are a number of SD's who have told Camp Hillary that they prefer her (or, as with Richardson, she heard it that way) and they would like to endorse her.
Camp Hillary presses: Well, when? Do it now.
SD: I can't just yet.
Camp Hillary: But you will.
SD: I'm leaning that way.
Camp Hillary: When?
SD: My lunch is getting cold.
May 6, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe she beat them in a drinking contest.
May 6, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just another of my daily reminders to not forget the Troops that are getting slaughtered in Iraq for a lie.
Now it looks like the new, very expensive, MRAP personnel carriers are also failing to protect our troops.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/iraq/v-print/story/35931.html
Posted on Mon, May. 05, 2008
2 soldiers' deaths in Iraq raise doubts about MRAP vehicle
Nancy A. Youssef | McClatchy Newspapers
last updated: May 05, 2008 07:21:09 PM
WASHINGTON — The deaths of two U.S. soldiers in western Baghdad last week have sparked concerns that Iraqi insurgents have developed a new weapon capable of striking what the U.S. military considers its most explosive-resistant vehicle.
The soldiers were riding in a Mine Resistant Ambush Protective vehicle, known as an MRAP, when an explosion sent a blast of super-heated metal through the MRAP's armor and into the vehicle, killing them both.
Their deaths brought to eight the number of American troops killed while riding in an MRAP, which was developed and deployed to Iraq last year after years of acrimony over light armor on the Army's workhorse vehicle, the Humvee.
May 6, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Translation: "Many superdels tell us they would be with us if we were winning." The circumstances to which he refers are probably winning the pledged delegate count. Nice try, Harold!
May 6, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTW, for all of you who thought this thing might be ending soon, Blitzer is floating the idea of an August Mich/Flo redo.
I'm telling you, the media isn't gonna let us off the hook. Whatever happens today, they will adjust their narrative accordingly. They owe it to their stock-holders to keep these ratings up.
May 6, 2008 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
True, the 24/7 News Channels HAVE to keep this going.
Hopefully Pelosi and Gore and Ried will recognize the Democratic Party needs resoltuion by June and will move to end it.
May 6, 2008 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
That would take a will that most of them don't seem to have.
May 6, 2008 5:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well Wolfie doesn't run the Democratic party and has about 0 influence on those who do.
I think he's talking through his ass again.
May 6, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree. I think the media has pretty much dictated this campaign all along. Certainly more than Dean and co.
May 6, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Only up to a point - not the whole thing and not the whole way.
May 6, 2008 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, consider what will happen tomorrow. Nothing will have changed. Hillary will still be way behind, but with a batch of new numbers and talking points, like her new delegate math. You think the media's suddenly gonna start talking math? Hell no. With WV and Kentucky on the horizon, they're chopping at he bit to get some more racial polling into this thing.
Wright, white working class voters, flag pins, capital gains tax, plagiarism, Bill-statesman-turned-trainwreck Clinton, elitism, Michigan, Florida, "under the bus", etc etc etc...
The Democratic party and elders have had about as much control over this thing as they have over fulfilling the mandates that got them elected.
If they didn't have moral high ground, they'd be worthless. Which is why Hillary shouldn't have pawned all hers.
May 6, 2008 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
The saying is "chomping" isn't it? Chomping at the bit. What do I know about horses? Nothing.
May 6, 2008 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Important is that none of the rumors regarding large blocs of superdelegates for Obama have EVER come from an authorized advisers mouth.
May 6, 2008 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm guessing that number is some integer between negative one and positive one, exclusive.
May 6, 2008 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Andrea Mitchell, MSNBC: Evan Bahy is telling her that if Sen Clinton loses both, she will drop out.
May 6, 2008 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is some goalpost bullshit right there. She has numbers saying she's gonna win Indiana so she's lowering the bar so she can be so shocked by the will of the people!
May 6, 2008 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can hear her acceptance speech now:
"Clearly, the voters of Indiana feel that this horseshit should continue."
May 6, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please for the love of fucking God. Let's end this tonight.
May 6, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
And that "number" is zero.
May 6, 2008 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep in mind that Richardson "said" he was endorsing them too. According to Bill, he "promised" on three separate occasions.
They hear what they want, and most people aren't saying one way or the other definitively, for fear of the well known Clinton wrath.
May 6, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I find the term "very pro-Hillary" pretty ambiguous. Like these folks are tired of Harold screaming at them on the phone, so they don't outright tell him they are voting Obama, and he interprets that as pro-Hillary.
May 6, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent news.
May 6, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, you're not idiotic. I mean, you are. But you get what I meant.
May 6, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Baghdad Bob.
They're probably all holding out for fear of alienating Obama's one and a half million little donors. We might all sign a letter threatening to pull our support from the DCCC.
May 6, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
What?! Mark Penn is a super delegate?!?
May 6, 2008 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was supposed to be a response to Prius' 2nd comment all the way up there near the top of the page.
Oops.
May 6, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Technically, 0 is a number.
May 6, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exit polls from both NC and IN indicate 50-50 split among both blacks and whites to the questions "Was Wright Important To Their Vote?"
May 6, 2008 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kudos to Ickes. He's an excellent, excelllent liar. Very believable.
May 6, 2008 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hope you enjoy your job telemarketing magazines and travel packages once the political season is over.
May 6, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink