GOP Consultant On CNN: Sometimes It's "Accurate" To Call A Woman A "Bitch"
Hmmm. This isn't very nice.
On CNN a few moments ago, analyst Jeffery Toobin argued that Hillary was right when she said in an interview that coverage of the race has been "sexist," buttressing his case by pointing to a recent newspaper column suggesting that Hillary is a "white bitch." Toobin, unsurprisingly, took issue with this, saying that it was "appalling" that this was considered acceptable.
GOP consultant Alex Castellanos, someone who presumably was on CNN's panel because he'd been invited by the network's producers, disagreed. Check out what he had to say about it...
"Some women, by the way, are named that, and it's accurate," Castellanos said. He went on to buttress his case by pointing out that Hillary is "abrasive, aggressive, irritating."
What's amusing about this is that Castellanos actually argued that it's sometimes accurate to call a woman a "bitch" as a way of making the claim that Hillary was wrong to argue that there's sexism in our political coverage. Pretty twisted stuff.
Hard to imagine that CNN would invite this gallant and chivalrous fellow back on the air, isn't it...
Is it sexist to call a guy being abrasive, aggressive, irritating a dick?
May 20, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
You tell me the next time they call someone a dick on CNN. I'll bring the beer and popcorn.
May 21, 2008 3:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
"DICK" AIN'T SON OF A BITCH bloodsucker friend ...
May 21, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
good lord.
May 20, 2008 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
No more surprising than MSNBC continuing to put Pat "One of Us" Buchanan on the air, Greg.
May 20, 2008 8:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is beyond the pale. He should be fired for this.
May 20, 2008 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can't we all just talk about the ISSUES?!?!?!?!
May 20, 2008 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
For once I agree with the troll.
May 20, 2008 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love you, gotalife.
May 20, 2008 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
OMG, you're multiplying!?!
Gotalifefan will be so happy!
May 20, 2008 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like crabs.
;-)
May 20, 2008 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Multiplying? No. Gotalife, along with Fogu2 and, I'm hearing, Dembillc (Really?) staged what might be called The Space Revolution today and entered true Troll Retirement in a sign of Democratic Unity.
Former fellow performers, seeing an easy path to attention, responded by posting Ghost Performances in what look like their names - though they're poorly structured, and in some cases Simply Scatalogical performances that don't rise to the level of proper review.
The real Gotalife and Fogu2 have updated their avatars in a further sign of unity - so they're easy to tell apart.
It's been a sometimes confusing Trollus Historia today. But it's been heartwarming in all the right ways.
May 20, 2008 8:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Haven't been on in a while. But, I must say BEST AVATAR EVER!!!!!
May 21, 2008 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
I Know! I love Gene Shalit and his puns!
May 21, 2008 9:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
is anyone surprised?
May 20, 2008 8:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Castellanos is a notorious shit. Also, he's a race-baiter. I am not at all surprised he said that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Castellanos
May 20, 2008 8:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think this is the kind of garbage that BOTH Clinton and Obama supporters can stand against.
Hillary is a strong, independent woman, as is Michelle Obama, there's nothing "bitch"y about that.
It's time to unite against this kind of GOP bigotry.
May 20, 2008 8:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought had MSNBC had the corner on sexist windbags. How could they let this gem get away?
May 20, 2008 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it sexist to call a guy being abrasive, aggressive, irritating a dick?
May 20, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes indeedie. Someone on a major network called David Axelrod a dick?
May 20, 2008 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Jon Stewart is a sexist pig for calling Carlson Tucker a dick?
Learn something new every day.
May 20, 2008 8:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
You really think it's sexist?
I don't think Hillary is a bitch and I'd never condone anyone calling her one, but I think some women are bitches and some men are dicks.
May 20, 2008 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't disagree.
May 20, 2008 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You should hear the some of terms I use to describe John "4 more years" McCain. And don't even get me started on GWB and Cheney. But that's in private talk, not in a newspaper column or on CNN. It is absolutely unacceptable for columnists in newspapers and on TV news to use that kind of language to describe any woman, no matter how personally unpleasant they may find her.
And, Mr. Castellanos, "bitch" is certainly not an "accurate" description of Hillary Clinton. A bitch, to be "accurate," that is, to be literal, is a female dog. When I say that you are a jackass, Mr. Castellanos, that is not an "accurate" description of you, it's a metaphor for "contemptible."
May 21, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ugh.. Tucker Carlson... I am in total brain fart mode tonight.
May 20, 2008 8:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
jon stewart is an entertainer/comedian who is supposed to push boundaries. i don't expect to hear wolf blitzer talking about clusterfuck to the white house either (although I'd pay to see that). If you don't see the difference between a poltical commentator and a satirist, far be it from me to explain it to you.
May 20, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Forget about Wolf Blitzer or Jon Stewart.
Do you not think some women are bitches and some men are dicks?
May 20, 2008 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I do.
This reminds me of when Barack Obama was on The Daily Show talking about how the media had called him naive for saying he wouldn't use nuclear weapons on small areas like training camps even if they were for Al Qaeda. Then Obama talked about how military strategists came out agreeing with him and of course then the media started to back step from what they had asked.
Then John Stewart replied with something like, "They probably wanted to say "Oh no, we agreed with you, we just didn't know you could say that on TV."
Unfortunately, Clinton is lately trying to make sexism into the nuclear weapons part of this example, and I don't know how many women will stand up and say "yeah, sometimes women are bitches".
But they totally should. =-D
May 20, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I personally refer to things people do as bitchy or dickish. I try not to equate someone as a whole with either of those charcteristics as both men and women can do bitchy or dickish things. I thought it was rather dickish for Obama to call that reporter "sweetie" to dismiss her while she was doing her job and asking him a question. I thought it was rather dickish for Senator Clinton to do that whole celestial choirs opening spiel about Obama. I thought Obama was rather bitchy when he refused to debate Hillary and ran away because he had the lead. I thought Senator Clinton was kind of bitchy with the whole Bill Richardson judas thing.
Of course Senator clinton can at times be a bitch, she can also be driven and compassionate and committed and tenacious etc etc etc. To just call her a bitch is such an insult.
May 20, 2008 9:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
dijamo --- Are you being sexist when you say (or think) those things? I certainly don't think so. So while neither term should be used to describe the totality of a person (of either gender), I think you would agree that someone can legitimately say "when you act that way you are being a bitch" and not mean it in a sexist way. ---- In other words "bitch" and/or "dick" are terms that may have their origins in gender-related traits but, as you demonstrate, nowadays refer to specific types of behavior and can be applied to people of either sex. Ergo, it's not automatically sexist to use them.
Interesting observation on MSNBC - Rachel Maddow apparently interviewed Geraldine Ferraro and, someone who listened reported, there was a true generational gap: things that Ferraro felt were offensively sexist simply didn't register with Maddow. I don't think it's necessarily age-related (I'm only slightly younger that Ferraro), but there is some truth that sexism is in the mind of the person hearing something (and whether something was intended to be a sexist slur may well be in the mind of the person speaking).
May 21, 2008 12:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dijamo's problem is that she's intelligent and has something of a definition for the slurs and invectives she uses. The vast majority of people are just regurgitating stuff they hear and piling on like fans watching a gladiator fight.
May 21, 2008 4:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
When Obama was ducking Hillary on debates, this is the first thought that ran through my mind: why is he acting so bitchly / like a punk?
When expressing those thoughts to others I said and I quote "If I were Obama, I'd take the chance to get assertive," "Be a man," and called him "COWARD". All terms that I think accurately describe why he was coming across as bitchly to me. Did I resort to actual calling him a bitch or a punk? Absolutely not. Yes I know that in my private thoughts I use those same gendered defintions of bitch that society uses - one of either an aggressive, hard hitting, tough as nails woman or a weak, emasculated and cowardly man.
When expressing myself to others, I try to avoid perpetuating those stereotypes and say what I actually mean. I could call someone a dick or I could call them an obnoxious arrogant windbag.Bitch and other derogatory names/insults are just shortcuts to avoid saying directly what your real issue is with the person.
I find it unacceptable that on a major media news program someone can say criticism that Senator Clinton is a bitch in the media is not sexist because some women ARE actually bitches. I find it more unacceptable that people and so-called democrats are defending that shit.
May 21, 2008 9:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
So she's a Bitch Plus?
Are you suggesting its ok to call her a bitch as long as you recognize her other qualities; the totality of her personality and accomplishments? That's weak.
May 21, 2008 9:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bitch Plus. Funny. You could use that term for Hillary if you want to define her as primarilly a bitch (however it is you define that term)and any other qualities she has are secondary/not as important.
Is it okay for me to call Obama a Dick Minus since I find him arrogant, obnoxious and pompous minus assertiveness that I would like to see in my next president?
I find that tone rather infantile and undeveloped, but if that is the level of debate, then let's have at it.
May 21, 2008 9:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
I was unaware that Wolf Blitzer described anyone a bitch on television.
ANd yes, I am well aware of what satire is, but given that the majority of the things on CNN are not news (and I include all the "analysis" therein to not be news, just big production versions of what we the unwashed masses do in the blogsphere) your counterpoint is rather off the mark.
May 20, 2008 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jon Stewart also said he thought Barack would make "kind of a dicky boyfriend". Which was in response to Obama's "likeable enough" comment. Stewart's comment was on a comedy show, and was pretty funny. If it had been on a news show, I would expect a more sober analysis.
May 21, 2008 3:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is something that supporters of both Clinton and Obama should rise against and deem unacceptable.
May 20, 2008 8:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whatever. Get over yourself.
What this asshole said was deplorable. We all agree on that.
May 21, 2008 1:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Get over yourself--you can't handle the truth.
May 21, 2008 2:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
I've frequently referred to Bush as a dickhead and a putz. And I've called Cheney an evil prick.
I know it's not the same thing - but I just can't resist yet another opportunity to say that Bush is a dickhead and a putz and Cheney is an evil prick.
May 20, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
BRAVO! Mission Accomplished.
May 21, 2008 1:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Breaking April Fundraising: Obama $31.9M, Clinton $20M, McCain $18M
May 20, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
ABC:
Obama Takes in More Than $31 Million in April ABC News has learned that Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., hauled in $31.9 million in April (including $600,000 for the general election) to continue his battle for the Democratic nomination against Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y. Two hundred thousand new donors joined Obama's effort last month. Obama has an mighty $37.3 million on hand with $9.2 million tucked away for the general election. Camp Obama proves (again) that big money comes in small packages. It's been a pattern since last year but the numbers are still impressive: 1.475 million total donors overall making 2.93 million contributions. The average contribution is $91. The clicks come in small waves: 94% of the contributions to Obama's effort were under $200, 93% of contributions were $100 or less, 77% were $50 or less, and 52% were $25 or less. - jpt
May 20, 2008 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this the same $20 million in Monopoly money that Clinton claimed to bring in last time which turned out to be loans and creative accounting to hide the debt?
May 20, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Plus over 20 million in debt.
Here's what kos just posted:
"Running a campaign into the ground, fiscally mismanaging it, and entering the general election tens of millions in debt is so electable."
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/20/202339/321/434/519247
May 20, 2008 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
dude, you're sexy
May 20, 2008 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
The question is, how much of Hillary's 20M is for the general, and how much is available now?
Also, I'm a bit surprised at McCain's number. For some reason, I thought he's be a little less than that.
May 20, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
$1,000.
Maybe.
;-)
May 20, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
And how much of it actually exists?
May 20, 2008 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not including her ~$20 million in debt?
May 20, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
???
More news will come out soon I'm sure. ABC only had these figures.
But I highly DOUBT this includes her debts and that would mean she raised 40 mil.
Na uh.
May 20, 2008 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
great, give her ammo to whine about sexism and injustice some more. And of course she and her surrogates will start pointing to this as an example when asked why they assert that Obama is sexist. It never ends:
http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2008/05/hillarys-gender-baiting-campaign-is-in.html
May 20, 2008 8:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps this might bring some of those Hillary
supporters, who say they will vote for McCain,to their senses.
Paging Geraldine Ferraro. Paging Geraldine Ferraro.
What say you now; Ms Ferraro?
May 20, 2008 8:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Email from Barack Obama just arrived:
May 20, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know it is boilerplate form the Obama campaign, but there has been no counting of votes yet in Oregon. Just daily tracking of how many ballots have been received and verified against the signature records. We do not have any tabulation being performed yet.
May 20, 2008 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
He actually doesn't need Oregon to hit the mark - via Chuck Todd.
Bu,t Oregon will quite possibly hit the other mark of the numbers HRC is using that include Florida & Michigan.
May 20, 2008 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's right, it's not about him. Anyone could have done the same thing.
May 20, 2008 11:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is losing the popular vote. He should drop out now and endorse Hillary.
May 20, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Except that here in reality he isn't.. and he won't.
May 20, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
In what world is he losing the popular vote? The fantastical one where MI & FL count, but caucus states don't? Seriously, Clinton supporters need to learn how math works in reality.
May 20, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
U.N.I.T.Y
you ain't a bitch or a hoe -- Queen Latifah
Come on everybody lets show our Faux Hillary our support, lets go to HillaryClinton.com!
May 20, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just got Obamaed. And it was great!
May 20, 2008 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
And sometimes, it's accurate to call a guy a total douchebag.
CNN will probably give him a regular slot. It's--apparently-- totally fine for MSNBC to have Pat Buchanan and his racist drivel, and it's totally fine for someone like this to get on the air. For god's sakes.
But, you know what? The next president is going to be either a woman or a black dude, so they can all just shove it up their narrowminded little heinies.
May 20, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is the sort of thing that exists to be mercilessly lampooned by Jon Stewart.
May 20, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is a fundraiser for Clinton.
What a fighter like Clint Eastwood said today.
Hillary!
Hillary!
Hillary!
May 20, 2008 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton Eastwood is a Republican and is supporting McCain.
Yesterday Hillary placed a big wet kiss on Turdblossom, so Republican Eastwood just gave her back some tongue.
May 20, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually Eastwood is an independent who supported Perot back in the day.
May 20, 2008 8:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eastwood/Perot
Norris/Huckabee.
I'm sensing a trend.
May 20, 2008 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see no trend there.
Someone who voted Perot is a totally different political animal than one who votes Huckabee.
May 20, 2008 8:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10481.html
Cut the bullshit. Eastwood is backing McCain.
"Though a longtime follower of John McCain โ dating back to the Arizona senatorโs 2000 run against George W. Bush in the GOP primary โ Clint Eastwood thinks Clinton deserves some serious respect. And enough already with the calls for her to quit."
McCain also does not want her to quit. Notice the pattern.
May 20, 2008 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eastwood is just saying similar things to what many of us have said (and by the way, he supported Ron Paul this year):
โEverybodyโs trying to talk her into folding, but it doesnโt seem like the spirit of Americana,โ Eastwood told Politico.
โPut yourself in the place of [Clinton]: Youโve gone out there and made a thousand speeches, and youโve shaken a million hands and youโve been out there working your ass off,โ Eastwood said. โAnd then somebody comes up and says, โWhy donโt you just drop out of it?โโ
The actor/director/producer/jazz aficionado said Clintonโs fortunes could change: Barack Obama could trip over himself again, as he did with the controversies over his association with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Obamaโs remarks about working-class voters clinging to their religion and guns.
โI watch Clinton and feel kind of sorry for her and wonder, โWhat are all these people telling her to run away for?โโ Eastwood said. โSheโs showing her strength by hanging in there.โ
Politico noted that this is not the first time that Clint Eastwood has channeled Billy Glad and won't be the last.
May 21, 2008 4:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is total trollgate!
I am the real gotalife.
the Other is a BS fraud.
This morning I said I would vote for dem nom. Now they are going after me.
They're the ones on Kool Aid.
May 20, 2008 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
ONE OF US! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
Drink the kounter kool aid.
May 20, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually Goatlife my favorite flavor of Koolaid is Cherry!!!Keep posting Goatlife!!!
May 21, 2008 12:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a "Gelding," right, Josh Marshall!
May 20, 2008 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not the first time this guy has said something that makes me want to punch the tv screen.
May 20, 2008 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
First, I have to say, I think saying either "dick" or "bitch" is an accurate descriptor for ANYONE, as an official contributor on the air on a national news network, is disrespectful and completely inappropriate for the situation.
Secondly, no, those are completely different words. Power dynamics are important. History matters. A slur or insult for a group that has historically been oppressed is always much more insulting an inappropriate than one for the group that has been on top. The N-word carries much more power and history than "cracker," and "bitch" carries much more power and history than "dick."
May 20, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
So all the women who think and call other women, many who do so about Hillary Clinton I might add, are sexists or are just victims themselves of the male paradigm of culture?
Not quite buying it.
May 20, 2008 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, women own the word. Like gay people use "fag" and black people use the n-word. It's about reclamation.
When someone from the oppressive group uses it in a completely derogatory manner, that's completely different.
May 20, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
And for the record, yes, many women ARE a) sexist or b) victims of the patriarchal paradigm of culture, absolutely.
And finally, saying any slur or swear word is an appropriate term for someone as a national news network contributor is disrespectful and inappropriate.
May 20, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ferocia, you are as wise as your secret weapon is aerosoled.
May 20, 2008 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hot tranny mess!
May 20, 2008 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, there IS a proper time to refer to a female as a bitch........
And that time is when a female dog gives birth to a litter of puppies........
As far as i can make out, that is the ONLY time when it is appropriate.......at least on a network cable channel discussing human events.
May 20, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is not appropriate to call someone a bitch on national television, however...Hillary IS a self-serving, delusional, BITCH. I have zero qualms about saying it.
May 20, 2008 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unless you're Hillary Clinton celebrating the fact that Tina Fey delivered a faux-"endorsememt" and announced "Bitch is the new black."
So if a woman (say, me, perhaps) calls another woman (say, Hillary or Geraldine, perhaps) a whiny bitch (not so good), or one heckuva bitch(better), or America's Chief White Bitch (outfuckingstanding!!!!) it's all about the "relevance." If it's perceived as a compliment Hillary has touted it. If it is a slam, it's sexist.
ain't that a bitch? just when you think you have it figured out... sheeeeeeee-it.
May 20, 2008 9:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, try looking up the column Toobin was referencing. He completely misrepresents it. The column by Maureen Dowd was quoting a joke by the comedian Penn Jillette. If this was an Obama supporter making that much of a leap, I'm sure you'd throw in a line pointing out that they were being dishonest. Too bad you've never held the Clinton supporters to the same standard.
May 20, 2008 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think bitch is a slur against woman just the same way we have slurs agains blacks, asians, and mexicans.
People need to monitor their speech.
May 20, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can't we call her a schmutz, nudnik, noodge (this would be my preferred option), nebbish, ganef, or dybbuk? All these options are quite useful and share the advantage of "bitch" in that none of them have to be bleeped.
May 20, 2008 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm... yes... Obama is the one that's sexist...
For every one of Hillary's supporters who said they would not vote or would vote for McCain... THIS IS WHAT YOU GET!
May 20, 2008 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sometimes it's accurate to call a Repugnican a filthy Nazi dirtybag and pedophile.
May 20, 2008 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Come on folks. I'm no lover of Toobin, but this is just achingly PC. And in a little while, no one will care about/be shocked by the B-word. I'd be interested to know the ages of the people who are so shocked by the word. Younger people simply do not give the word the weight that older people do. I'm 34, and can say that most people my age say the word quite freely. I work with lots of younger people at my job, and I can tell you that the word has more stigma at all for them. They'll call women bitches, girls will call men bitches, and they'll even punctuate their sentences with it.
Why do some people assign such weight to the b-word? If you don't fear it, you remove it's power. And unfortunately for the b-word haters, Dave Chappelle and Snoop Dogg are more influential cultural forces than the uptight PC police.
May 20, 2008 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
"the word has more stigma at all for them" should read "no more stigma at all for them".
To those who think this word is so awful--why do you give this word so much weight. I'm not meaning to be patronizing. I'm honestly interested in the answer.
May 20, 2008 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
The word represents a mentality that once existed, and still exists in most of the world, including America, that women who aren't entirely focused on raising a family at home and try to gain for purely personal reasons are somehow going against societal decency.
By the way, anyone have that clip from CNN showing a woman from Kentucky saying that Clinton running for president was "evil" because "the woman's place is in the home?"
May 20, 2008 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmm...I never even considered the idea that the b-word means "that women who aren't entirely focused on raising a family at home and try to gain for purely personal reasons are somehow going against societal decency." as you put it. Why do you assign this meaning to it? I understand the argument some people make that says that people will call a woman a bitch when she is displaying any sense of aggression or drive, which would be expected or applauded if demonstrated by a male. I understand this argument--I don't agree with it.
To me, getting all worked up about the b-word is essentially counter-productive to gender equality. The belief that "Bitch is a horrible word...women must be protected from it at all costs" comes from a mentality that sees women as weak and in need of protection. I for one think that women strong enough to be able to handle this word. Thinking that women must be shielded from it assumes weakness. And that's what's sexist.
May 20, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, I'm 25, and I find the word offensive still.
May 20, 2008 10:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why is it so offensive to you? Honest question.
May 20, 2008 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
iceberg, what if i were to say you're mom's a bitch?
you cool like that?
May 20, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, my mom kind of is a bitch.
May 20, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
It draws females as lesser creatures, in this case dogs.
May 20, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
When you call a woman a bitch, you aren't calling all women bitches. I bet at least half of the people who use the word are unaware of the dog thing. The word has taken on it's own, independent meaning in this sense. And again...assuming women need to be protected from the word is assuming female weakness. That's the real sexism.
Also, if calling a woman a bitch is reducing all women to animals, why do I here women (including older women) calling other women bitches all the time? And save the bullshit about "taking back the word"
May 20, 2008 10:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I ran this through Babelfish's sex->race converter:
---------------------------------------------------
When you call a black a nigger, you aren't calling all blacks niggers. I bet at least half of the people who use the word are unaware of the subhuman thing. The word has taken on it's own, independent meaning in this sense. And again...assuming blacks need to be protected from the word is assuming black weakness. That's the real racism.
Also, if calling a black a nigger is reducing all blacks to animals, why do I hear blacks (including older blacks) calling other blacks niggers all the time? And save the bullshit about "taking back the word"
---------------------------------------------------
So now it's all clear to me - I hope it's clear to you as well. I tried to run previous posts on the bitch issue through Babelfish as well, but unfortunately the server crashed, though they think they can revive it.
May 21, 2008 4:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
All this discussion on whether or not the world bitch is ever appropriate to be used is totally missing the actual point. I'm 23, and I use bitch myself. That doesn't mean I'm not offended when a male, Republican strategist acting as a CNN contributor says that "bitch" is an accurate descriptor for some women within the context of a mainstream news report on national TV because he finds her "aggressive, irritating, and abrasive." Those are EXACTLY the characteristics that people assign to strong, driven, outspoken women and then demean them using the word "bitch." It's all in context, and this example is COMPLETELY different than me hanging around with my friends.
May 20, 2008 10:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I understand the difference in context. But that doesn't change the larger point. Toobin said that "Some women, by the way, are named that-[bitch], and it's accurate." I think he's absolutely right. I like women that are strong, driven, and outspoken. That's not what a bitch is. We call guys who are "aggressive, irritating, and abrasive" dicks, pricks, cocks, and all other sorts of gender-specific insults. Why not have a gender specific insult for women that display the same behavior? That's real equality, my friend.
May 20, 2008 10:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
First of all, Toobin is the analyst who agreed with Hillary's assertion that sexism is more acceptable in the media than racism. The person who said "bitch" is accurate for some women is Alex Castellanos.
To answer your question, the reason bitch isn't acceptable in this context is because when a man is ambitious, outspoken, and driven, he's not called a dick or criticized for being abrasive, irritating, or aggressive, he's lauded for his characteristics. When a woman exhibits them, however, she's an abrasive, irritating, and aggressive bitch.
The idea that the use of bitch by men to describe some women on national primetime news, even if those women are abrasive, irritating, and aggressive (which are subjective claims, by the way), is somehow real equality is absolutely ludicrous.
May 20, 2008 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry about the name confusion. I haven't actually watched the clip. I respectfully disagree with your assertion that the b-word is used to slam women who display "ambitious, outspoken, and driven" behavior. You yourself admitted that you use the word with your friends. Do you say it about women who are ambitious and driven? Or do you say it about women who demonstrate other qualities? Since you use it yourself, it's odd that you would make such a broad claim that the b-word is always a slam on women who demonstrate a positive ambition.
You said "The idea that the use of bitch by men to describe some women on national primetime news...is somehow real equality is absolutely ludicrous." Why is my assertion ludicrous? You seem to believe that women are soft, frail creatures who can't stand the pain of hearing a gender specific insult. I think that belief comes from a (probably unconscious) residually sexist belief system, one in which we must protect the virtue and frailness of womanhood. That's a Victorian outlook--and we all know how enlightened they were about gender issues, right! I'm quite comfortable in 2008, myself.
May 20, 2008 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is s-u-c-h utter BS.
Men who are ' strong, driven, ambitious and outspoken' are just as likely to be referred to in the pejorative as 'dicks'. It is largely a question of degree--pushed to excess, all such traits are negative.
May 21, 2008 2:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
No bitches, no dicks, just douchebags, please.
May 20, 2008 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Barak were to say to Hilary at the next Dem partay, "Hilary, don't be a douchebag" or "Hilary, that's complete and utter douchebaggery", I'd be okay with that.
May 20, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
So much for women voting Republican this fall.
May 20, 2008 11:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
If the pantsuit fits...
May 20, 2008 11:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
When SNL's Tina Fey did her 'b**** is the new black' spiel, the Clinton campaign embraced it wholeheartedly - can't have it both ways. Sorry.
That's been the 'problem' w/ her campaign. Uber-frontrunner w/ tons of money that she pissed away - as well as her 'brand' name and Superdelegate lead before contest begins - only to suddenly be the 'victim' after you implode. Jeez - we all have archival access to all the positively, inevitable media for her BITD. It wasn't until Doyle pissed away $30mil unnecessarily in a NY Senate campaign and Penn and Bill frittered it all away that we heard about sexism.
There was no hue and cry re 'b****' when she got to use that and Barack's pillows in the debate re the first question crap. Both ways - no.
May 21, 2008 1:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Saturday Night had already posed Hillary as the witch a month or two before.
Trying to pull out your self-respect when someone's calling you a bitch is perfectly reasonable. Men argue, women bitch. It's the unlevel playing field, and you act like Hillary's trying to have it both ways. She's just trying to have it ONE FAIR WAY. She's moving around trying to find a strategy that works. After a year of Chris Matthews making comments like, "she makes me want to cross my legs", she finally slammed him - she got his colleague suspended over the "pimp" comment and she so demeaned Matthews by giving him a hug and a pinch on the cheek. He looked like a 3-year-old leaving his mother for daycare. A sexist image she placed on him after a year of sexist indignity.
May 21, 2008 3:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
wow, all this commenting energy spent dissecting the word 'bitch' and who can use it and who can't.
Seems pretty simple to me; black people can call themselves 'ni&&er'. White people can't call them that.
Women can refer to themselves as 'bitch' if they want. Men can't call them that. As pointed out above, it has a lot to do with the past history of oppression.
May 21, 2008 3:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Name-calling is inherently stupid. It undermines the credibility of any argument one might have. Now, one could describe bitchy/dickish behavior -- without using those terms -- but with specific examples for support.
Name calling just makes a person look ignorant, or as being from West Virginia. Wait... that's redundant.
May 21, 2008 5:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Man, if I made a list of every politician that I thought was a bitch or a dick, my hand would fall off. To be sure, they come in different flavors such as corporatist bitches or war mongering dick, etc., but they convey they get the same general point across. Most politicians are repugnant and inadequate human beings.
Irrespecitve of how innapropriate for Castellanos to say what I was already thinking on national TV,if politics has become so precious that we, as private citizens on a message board, castrate our language and leave it to late night comedians "push boundaries" and to deliver the truth while we get fucked over by politicians, then this ship is surely sinking.
The fact of the matter is that our domain of choices as voters has shrunk so alarmingly that the majority of our options are bitches and the tactless dicks who get on national TV to bash bitches.
Still, even though I wish for better, I can't help but point out that, while Clinton's campaign has been devoid of anything remotely resembling substantive politics, she has made it very clear that she is a selfish bitch.
May 21, 2008 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let's just be safe and use the all encompassing Asshole.
May 21, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Castellanos - future member of the Washington Post Writer's Group.
Our offense has probably caught Hiatt's eye, and he's setting aside column space as we speak. If he gets a reaction burning a cross, he'll be put on staff.
May 21, 2008 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
the number one political team on television ???
smells like number two to me
May 21, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, if being "abrasive, aggressive, irritating" are the benchmarks, then can we all call Dick Cheney a bitch?
gary
May 21, 2008 2:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Alex Castellanos should be taken off CNN!
What an IDIOT! I'd expect that of MSNBC But NOT CNN!
Just another asshole.....
May 21, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
To those who are making the n-word/b-word parallel--sorry, but it doesn't work. When you use the n-word, you're implicitly slamming all blacks as inferior. When you call a woman a b****, you're only referring to that person in particular. Try to make your case on its own merits, and quit making false parallels. The fact that people are relying on these fake analogies shows me that they don't have a real argument.
May 21, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Congratulations. I'm linked here by Digby, who uses this comment thread to demonstrate that alleged progressives have no idea what sexism is.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/you-can-believe-us-by-digby.html
Digby is no Clintonista and goes out of her way to excuse Senator Obama from the dreadful conduct of the MSM and the blogosphere during this campaign.
Embarassing.
May 21, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Congratulations. I've linked below to Digby, who cites to this very comment thread to demonstrate that many "progressives" have no idea what sexism is.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/05/you-can-believe-us-by-digby.html
Digby is no Clintonista and goes out of her way to excuse Senator Obama from the dreadful conduct of the MSM and the blogosphere during this campaign.
Embarassing.
May 21, 2008 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on this. And I think the amount of self-righteousness here is ludicrous. This analogy doesn't work because while the n-word automatically slams all blacks, the b-word just refers to one woman--or, increasingly, one man. Again, the younger generation understands this--those not blinded by self-righteous victim-stance taking do, anyways.
May 21, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I registered just so I could comment on this thread, specifically to the ridiculous nature of iceberg's increasingly nonsensical tail-swallowing.
1. How do you get that calling someone the n-word is slamming all blacks, but calling someone the b-word is NOT slamming all women?
2. Women do not need to be protected from this word. People in general need to be more respectful of other human beings. Using that word as a pejorative is not being respectful of another human being.
3. Women have the right to use that word when describing themselves or when joking with friends who have already signaled that such use does not offend them. It is NEVER ok, for women OR men, to use that word as a pejorative.
4. It is never ok for a man to call a woman a bitch on national TV or any other public forum. That is sexist, unprofessional, and rude. It is RARELY ok for a man to EVER call a woman a bitch.
5. Regardless of the fact of the source (as part of a comedy routine), this incident has CLEARLY dragged out into the light of day the fact that sexism is still alive and well, and just waiting for a little encouragement to rear its ugly head.
6. Women do not FEAR this word -- we hate it, and with good reason. Here's a good way to figure out how it feels to be called a bitch. Imagine having a conversation in a crowded room with someone -- friend, coworker, boss, lover. Now imagine that, in the middle of the conversation, that person slaps you hard across the face. Now get up from your computer and go get someone to REALLY enact the above scene. THAT is how it feels to be called a bitch.
May 22, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I totally agree with iceberg. When *I* call someone a nigger, I'm always only saying it to a specific person, so I don't see how it could have anything to do with other black people.
...
I love it when someone tries to claim that it's, like, so progressive, young, and *hip* to use loaded slurs. Notice iceberg hasn't replied when they get thoroughly owned in a comment, just kept spamming the post lower down? Here's a tip for you: quit while you're behind.
May 24, 2008 12:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
At the end of a job interview, my wife was told, by two fifty something year old men, "The most important thing is to make sure you're not the wicked witch of the West."
Yaaaay!!!!
May 21, 2008 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink