Not shocking, but also not particularly heartwarming. They don't even need a 3rd party this year, the vote leakage has already begun for te Dems.

N. Carolina and Indiana are hardly states one would expect to find that the backers of Senator Clinton would ever vote for an African American for dog catcher, let alone President. But, if she has to break the party rules to gain the nomination there is an even chance that every one of those backers who wouldn't vote for Obama will be offset by African Americans and young voters who will be too busy to vote in November.

"White-hot passions?" Do we know of any exits that go further and tell us what is driving these numbers? Race? Electability? Wright? As an Obama guy, I can't get my head around this. I would expect this number from our camp, given the kind of campaign she has run, but these numbers remain a mystery to me.

Lisa Caputo (on behalf of HRC) just said that "white middle class" voters are "the ones" who are adversely affected by the bad economy, and the ones you need for November.

God do I hate them.

I dont buy it, for two main reasons:

1, people know how these polls are used. If people say theyll vote McCain over Obama, it makes Hillary look better.

2, Once the actual campaigning starts, and people see the real difference between McCain and Obama (or, possibly Hillary) many of these voters will come back to the Dem side.

Two brief responses:

1) I am not sure that we have really lost much of anything if a partisan split in IN makes it impossible to win that state in November. I dare say that we never had much likelihood of winning it to begin with, even if the contest had ended on Feb 5.

2) Those NC numbers, however, are disturbing. I am interested to know (and will have to wait to see) what percentage of their exit poll interview subjects were backing Clinton and what percent were backing Obama. I notice that HuffPo's leaked second round of exit polls showed Obama leading Clinton 60% to 38%. If CNN's breakdown looks like that, then this means that we are losing 55% of the 38% that backed Clinton. In other words, out of every 100 democratic voters in NC, Obama loses 21 while Clinton loses 25. Not good either way.

Did they ask whether the Clinton supporters were Democrats?

If the Democrats let Clinton hold the party hostage by pointing to this questionable "fact", they deserve to lose.

O dear lord I love the man, but PABST? He went into a bar in NC and ordered a bloody PABST!!!

My dad drank PABST and died in a lime-green trailer with an ad-on that made it appear exactly like a lime-green trailer with an ad-on.

PABST?!?

Good point, DannyNoonan - I think one of the cable bloviators pointed this out as well; almost identical, actually, to the level polarization seen here.

The only problem is that their family feud was in February and March. This one's April and May, going on June.

How many of that 50% wouldn't vote for Hillary either?

50% of them?

That's because MOST of Hillary's Indiana backers are Republicans. They won't vote for Hillary in the general election either.

These numbers obviously reflect the white-hot passions of the moment, and they're much higher in these states on the eve of Dem primary voting than they are in the Dem electorate as a whole. But there's no denying that they represent a pretty grim starting place for Dems as they look ahead to the coming confrontation with McCain.

Greg, get real. Indiana and North Carolina are RED STATES. Just get real.

Mmmm, wonder why?

http://bp0.blogger.com/_UQPUzwdX51o/SCDf7a5lL6I/AAAAAAAAAHc/zhY2ozeAfVA/s1600-h/obamaschickens.jpg

Duh.

Yea! Hillary supporters must be racist. Anybody who supports her over Obama can't have any reason to do so other than their own racist bigotry. Especially in North Carolina. Those big racist southerns. They are so ignorant aren't they?

I just want to remind folks of how long this process has been going on: anyone remember IOWA? That was five months ago. I've forgotten 90% of the crap I was truly pissed about that was coming out of Camp Clinton. Hell, think back to November 2007. That seems like two years ago at this point.

I'm not a Democrat and I won't be voting for Clinton (I live in California, so don't worry, McCain's not taking the presidency because of my non-vote), but I think lots of Democrats will come to their senses by November.

http://iemweb.biz.uiowa.edu/graphs/graph_DConv08.cfm

So their candidate spends months hacking Obama to pieces using slimeball GOP tactics, and they are resentful of *him*?

Morons. Just promise them a gas tax holiday and they'll vote however you'd like.

msnbc= too early to call, meaning likely an HRC win but they need more data.

The exit poll question that really matters, but never gets asked: What percentage of Hillary backers will vote for McCain if Hillary is the nominee?. What percentage of them are voting racially now, but will vote against a women next.

Okay, I asked this in another post, but I am REALLY curious:

Question for those in the know:

We've seen that early voting was tremendous in both IN and NC. Have these votes been counted? When will they be incorporated into the returns? This is a big issue, and any numbers without these votes is worthless in my opinion.

So anyone know?

No worries:

• 6 months in politics is an eternity,
• when Clinton tells her supporters to vote for Obama, they will,
• some Clinton supporters understand the name of the game is making Obama look unelectable, so they say they won't vote for him.

Chill out.

It's just the heat of the moment. Things will change in November. It's all media noise. News is part of the entertainment industry in this country....

Shocking! You mean that people who want to obliterate Iran, and who think that criticizing Move On is acceptable, won't vote D in November? I can't believe it!

Kos posted CNN full exit poll. According to the exit polls, she won white men and women. Going by CNN's exit poll (if they are truthful), Kos thinks HRC will win IN in the low single digits. Looks like Zogby was wrong again

This is an electorate that elected Bush twice. That's the facts. Hillary has more of them and they vote on ignorant impulses. Obama appeals more to folks who have a big picture view, so you would expect them to vote for anyone but a Repub. in the general. But sadly the fact remains, that people vote against their own class interests. The Republicans don't just appeal to ignorance they try to remove the means by which people might be able to make informed thoughtful decisions. Like cutting educational spending, supporting media that arouses primitive drives for profit, manufacturing wars and fears. Furthermore, it isn't going to get any better, it's a race to the bottom at this point, beautifully expressed in this election cycle.

Hey Crumbrye, there is no need to draw the conclusion of racist. The issue is simply why would supporters of Hillary, if she is to lose the nomination, not select Barack Obama come fall? What makes them think that John McCain is better qualified to be their choice versus Barack Obama? Obviously they could also choose to not vote or vote for a third party but despite the support I have with the idea of a third party, I can not imagine that somehow all these people that support Hillary Clinton in the nomination would rather support the policies John McCain versus Barack Obama. One of the factors which might tell us something about this chasm/seperation between these two constituencies could be race but it could also be economic policies, it could be military policies, it could be civil liberty policies. But again Obama and Clinton positions on many of these issues are closer to each other than either is to John McCain. Therefore many of us who support Sen Obama are left mystified by this development. As I have said on this post many a times during this election, I have not been impressed with the tenure with which the Clinton campaign has engaged in this election but come November their won't be a chance that I would support any result which would lead to a Republican named John McCain being in the White House! Can You?

*Cue Superdels stepping in and ending this*

...Anybody there?

*crickets chirping*

Screw those Neocon-Dixiecrat Billary supporters.

Obama is down by 25,000 with 15% reporting. Who's going to call it first?

And they just said on MSNBC, David Gregory on campaign coverage, that 40% of the Hillary supporters would vote for McCain come November. Now how many of those 40% were women? And if so they would rather have John McCain and his judicial appointees than have Barack Obama? How is that? Were these voter's ever gonna vote for any other democrat other than Hillary? Or is the operation chaos crowd actually influenceing all this hyperventelating analysis?

MSNBC: BO win NC

uniter vs divider......Clinton's continue their track record of blame and attack........just what we need; never, ever accepting responsibilty for their own words and/or actions.
I can't believe that the "passion" would lead to 4 more years of McBush..

Folks: If you want to track the Indiana count by districts, just go to this link: Scroll down to the map, and run your mouse across the various counties. You will get an up to date count and the percentage of the vote that has been counted. It will give you an easy way to track where the vote counts are still out as the night progresses and how each candidate is doing in various parts of the state. It looks like Senator Obama will have to do well from Indianapolis up to the Illinois border, since South of Indianapolis votes more like Kentucky.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#IN

ARGHHHH! How do you get people to start thinking? What is so totally absurd about these racial divides is that they only reinforce everything Obama is about, but people get so entrenched in their fears that they won't look up.

Come on.

No one has done more for half of Hillary's supporters than Barack Obama.

Now. Where do the delegates from from? Add +1 to Obama for the night's total because another super went fort Obama tonight. NC is twice the size of IN, and Bubbuh went to every hollar and swamp to no avail.

Dijamo,

I agree with you. Obama supporters need to start to be gracious to Clinton's supporters, even if we have been called cultists, robots and a few other names. Obama badly needs them in the Fall.

I think the end is near for Hillary and she has run a tough campaign. However, I will let the exit polls speak for themselves in regard to who has run a dirty campaign and who hasn't:

More voters blamed Hillary for negative campaigning -- 63% of Indiana voters and 67 % of North Carolina voters thought Clinton attacked Obama unfairly. Only 43 % in Indiana and 40% in North Carolina thought the reverse.

She beat Obama by 20% and 27% for running unfair attacks.

So how many "Hillary supporters" will support Hillary come fall? Clearly there is a substantial block who are there for the entertainment value. Why go pull a meaningless lever for McCain if you can cause mayhem in the Democratic party?

I like open primaries, but when one party has a meaningful race going and the other doesn't--they don't work as well. I don't know of any remedy for that without getting rid of them, which I don't think is wise. Shortening the primary season would probably work as well as anything.

Did any of you clinton backers ever stop to think that maybe these repugnican idiots might be posting these messages and the blame is being put on the obama backers.These lowlife idiots are certainly capable of it.I cant believe how ignorant these people are.

You idiots got it all wrong, if anyone is a racist, it's those that vote for Obama because he is black! Do you really think that 92% of African-Americans vote for him for any other reason?
As a proud Hillary supporter, I will not dignify Obama's nomination, if he does get it, with my vote which will go to McCain and I am not a republican! The democratic party is afraid that blacks may cause riots and therefore will bend over backwards to avoid losing the black vote in future elections. Women, on the other hand, in this country are still seen as second class and can be easily ignored because they do not matter after all! And it is idiots like you that lack the more evolved brain that people like me enjoi!

I'll give you a good reason why I as a Hillary supporter might not support Obama. Ideology isn't the only factor. I do not believe that Barrack Obama would be a very good president, and I'm old enough to remember that the price of four years of Jimma Carter was eight years of Ronald Reagan. Democrats and the country would be significantly better off if Ford had been re-elected.

I think the same might be true in a Obama -McCain match up. McCain would not be horrible. He would be a significant improvement over the current President, and his excesses would be checked by a Democratic congress.

I'd be concerned about this if CNN was a serious new organization. I tuned out from "Fox News Lite" years ago.

I WON'T SUPPORT OBAMA. Hillary won Indiana, the supposed "tie breaker".

I and others like me will not support Obama if he gets this nomination.

We will support McCain. Because Obama will lose anyway.

TPTB wouldn't "allow" Al Gore to be President in 2000, even after he had won - what makes you think they'll "let" Obama become president in 2008?????