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Report: Hillary Demanded Penn's Removal After Colombia Story Hit

Some more details have come out about Mark Penn's demotion from top Clinton strategist to mere pollster, showing that the Colombia meeting was the final straw that broke the Clintons' confidence in him.

Hillary Clinton, previously loyal to Penn, was reportedly enraged at the news that he'd met with the Colombian ambassador, leading her and Bill to insist that he be removed from his post as the chief strategist. And thus may have ended a close political relationship that goes all the way back to 1996.


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It's more likely she was enraged that he got CAUGHT.

Clinton supporters across the nation rejoice!

Wahoo!

She's so tough! And decisive!

She showed him!

I read that same article and thought, "What does it say to her that she didn't know that Mark Penn had a contract with Colombia for a year?"

And what does it say about her that Mark Penn is still with the campaign?

Don't assume she didn't know. In fact, it's better to assume she did, since that's perhaps closer to the truth.

Faux Outrage . Faux Firing. Faux Blog Reporter at TPM.

Who is reporting this? Hillary's campaign? "Knowledgable aides".

Give me a freaking break. This post is stenography for Clinton campaign spin. How about you do some real reporting on how the Clintons have always said one thing to low income voters and done another behind the scenes on behalf of their big donors?

But...if she wanted him out so bad, why is he still advising her and doing polling for her? According to the Hillary campaign he just lost his title (which was his creation anyway), he didn't really get fired.

That seems kind of weird if she was supposedly so upset, same with the couple day lag between when the whole thing was exposed and when she finally acted.

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Sadly this didn't come soon enough. One of the (many) reasons I never liked the Clinton campaign is Mark Penn. The guy is troglodyte union buster, no democrat should employ him.

Why didn't she get rid of him altogether then? He's still polling for and advising the campaign. I don't see how this changes much. He wasn't fired, just had his title removed. Big difference.

Someone else on another blog made a good point. It was OK for him to lobby for the Colombian government just not to meet with them?

So this was the final straw? Not all the previous workings Mark Penn has done, And it seems she is still paying him and his polling company. He just wont be talking to the press anymore.

What's ended is the closeness; not the relationship.

Indeed, I doubt the Clintons are in a position to sever ties with Penn, even if they're finally willing to do so. By the end of March, they were already $2.5 million in hock to the guy - it's probably closer to $3-4 million by now. It's not that he's going to demand immediate payment if they fire him tomorrow. The trouble is that the campaign still needs polling done. Penn's willing to pay for it himself, and get reimbursed months or years later on. If they fire him as their pollster, the odds are pretty good that his replacement will want the insolvent campaign to pay up-front for any polling they conduct, and the Clintons can't afford to do that. Their burn rate continues to outpace their fundraising.

So yeah, Penn's no longer setting the strategic direction for the campaign. But of course, it doesn't have a strategic direction anymore. There's nothing Hillary can say or do to change the outcome, anyway - she's just hanging on, desperately praying that Obama will self-destruct(and giving him some helpful nudges). All the old arguments between Ickes and Penn about centrism vs. liberalism are already moot. So I'd predict that this will have about as much impact on the direction of the race as the firing of Patti Solis-Doyle. Remember that one? Can anyone tell me what substantive changes resulted?

It sounds like they just found an excuse to finally let him go. His latest crime was minor compared to all he had done before.

And maybe they figured it would help lower expectations for their eventual win in Pennsylvania.

Mark Penn is the Isiah Thomas of Hillary '08.

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If she was so enraged, why did the Columbians need to fire him first? This story is absolute nonsense.

I wonder if she threw her bookbag across the room.

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News Flash! Clinton almost does the correct thing a decade and change late . . . Does the 'right' thing instead.

Penn NEEDS to never work again . . . except maybe behind the grill at a fast-food restaurant.

Gee, what about loyalty? Or does loyalty only go one way, from others to the Clintons?

"Some more details have come out about Mark Penn's demotion from top Clinton strategist to mere pollster"

Eric, please save your dignity.

Your FRONT PAGE story contradicts this.

Penn is still adivising the campaign.

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The person in charge does not demand. She does not insist. She either decides or she takes input and then decides.

So what's with the language saying Senator Clinton demanded and insisted?

Is there someone else who has greater power than she does in her own campaign?

The aides behind this story are speaking as though she's running for co-chair of the prom committee, not for Commander-in-Chief.

. . . leading her and Bill to insist that he be removed from his post as the chief strategist

Ummmm, okay, I'm confused. Actually, I'm doubly confused. First, what's with the "insist" part? You make it sound like they're major contributors or or shareholders in a corporation--people exercising clout from the outside of an organzation, or maybe people inside answerable to the real boss. Isn't Hillary's the person in the box at the top of the T.O.? She doesn't "insist that he be removed," she removes, she says unto that one go and he goeth, right?

And what's with the "Bill and Hillary?" Bill might "insist" because he's not the boss (right?) but Hillary wouldn't. She is, at most, the insistee, not the insistor.

So, my question is, did Eric just fall into passive voice because he needs his coffee (and I've long suspected Eric is a fellow bean-junkie), or is this how it was spun out by the campaign? If the former, it's nothing. If the latter, it's definitely interesting.

It is strange phrasing, I agree. The weird thing is that in the original NYT article, it is worded to sound more like Hillary made a request but it was Bill who was "the decider":

...aides said that Mrs. Clinton was furious when she learned of the Colombia talks and insisted on Mr. Penn’s demotion. Mr. Clinton concurred in that judgment, aides said.


Also note the word "demotion," not "removal" in the original.

Isiah Thomas was at least a really, really good player before he set about destroying the Knicks. Penn, on the other hand, has always been and still is useless.

On another note, don't forget that Penn likely knows where many of the bodies from the last 12 years are buried. THere's no way control freaks like the Clintons could cut afford to cut a guy like him loose. He's theirs for the duration of the campaign, and beyond.

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Except that Penn hasn't really been "removed" from the campaign at all. He's still doing polling and he's still giving advice. It says so in the statement they released.

When did reading stop being a pre-requisitite for reporting the "news"?

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Complete bullshit. He is still a pollster and advisor on the campaign. Hill and Bill have many fingers in many countries. IE (the Canada/Obama story) now the (Columbia talked to Obama too) story. It is the old republican playbook tactic of accusing your opponent of doing what you are actually doing yourself. They were not pissed at all that Penn was working for Columbia. Penn was getting massive negative ratings from her supporters. So she had to make it look like she was digusted and fired him.

Now if he had nothing more to do with her campaign, I would believe it. This is just more spin. The Hillary campaign thinks we are all idiots who won't notice.

Obvious they can't get rid of Penn. He knows too much.

More spin from Hillaryland. Maybe Hillary was the one who demanded that Penn by fired. Or maybe all the campaign staff who had wanted him gone for months marched into her office and said, "off with his head." Or maybe the few labor leaders who support her called her and said, "either he gets fired or I withdraw our endorsement." Who the hell knows? After being caught in lies on NAFTA, Tuzla and the Ohio health care story, she and her staff have no credibility left.

Speaking of spin ... turns out they can say he was fired all they want, but he wasn't after all. His firm is still getting the big bucks from the Hillary campaign (probably one of the few vendors they're actually paying). He's still involved in the campaign and still doing the polling. What a bunch of weasels these people are.

A question I posted on the earlier Penn story which is a bit more relevant on this'un:

Is it too cynical to suggest that Penn may have been cut loose by the campaign not because of his involvement in the trade deal with Colombia, but more as a consequence of his having incensed the Colombian government by apologizing for dealing with them. After all, if the campaign is releasing this tidbit about the candidate herself wielding the axe, I can't help but read that as an attempt at damage control aimed squarely at hearts (such as they are) and minds in Bogota.

And please . . . why do the MSM aspirants here at TPM continue asserting that Sen. Clinton opposes this trade deal? What, because she said so? Since when was that a reliable indicator of anything?

To whom did Hillary and Bill "insist" and "demand" that Penn be removed? I thought she (they) were the ones in charge of the Clinton campaign.

Way too late. Honestly the way Senator Clinton has run her campaign is one of the biggest concerns with how she would run the country. The premium she places on loyalty over competence reminds me of Bush quite honestly. All the infighting amongst the staff and her inability to put it to an end is strike #2. Do we really need a Whitehouse that fights more with itself then with anyone else? I don't think the country, as sorry a shape as it's in, can afford turf wars and bruised egos. Finally for all her claim of superior electability her campaign has been very poorly run. She had every single possible advantage when this started and now look where she is? While some might lay the blame at one staffer or another she is ultimately the one in charge. This was a leadership test and she has failed it miserably.

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If Hillary "demanded" Penn's removal, why is Penn still working for the campaign?

Marc Ambinder:

Demoted Hillary Clinton strategist Mark Penn may no longer have the coveted title of chief strategist, but he remains a key member of the campaign's senior staff. Indeed, it is not clear precisely what Mr. Penn's demotion entails, other than a public rebuke.

Mr. Penn took part on the campaign's morning message call this morning, as usual.

This afternoon, he is also scheduled to be on a call with Clinton and other aides to begin to prepare for Saturday's presidential debate in Philadelphia.

Mr. Penn "is still going to be very much involved," a senior campaign official said.

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