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Quinnipiac: Hillary Ahead By Nine In PA Primary, Runs Stronger Than Obama In Big Swing States

This morning's Quinnipiac polls show Hillary Clinton running nine points ahead of Barack Obama in the Pennsylvania primary, not significantly down from her lead two weeks ago:

Clinton 50% (-3)
Obama 41% (+0)

Meanwhile, Clinton is running stronger than Obama for the general election in Pennsylvania and two other big swing states — due to more solid support from white voters — which the Clinton campaign will be sure to use in arguing that they're more electable:

Florida
Clinton (D) 44%, McCain (R) 42%
McCain (R) 46%, Obama (D) 37%

Ohio
Clinton (D) 48%, McCain (R) 39%
Obama (D) 43%, McCain (R) 42%

Pennsylvania
Clinton (D) 48%, McCain (R) 40%
Obama (D) 43%, McCain (R) 39%

54 Comments

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Aaaargh! It's April. The general isn't until November which is a lifetime in politics.

Remember when Clinton was "inevitable"? If her supporters will just get behind the nominee, this will change radically.

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Remember when Dukakis had a 17-point lead? That was after the convention.

This confirms what other polls have been saying, though - Obama's been narrowing the gap in PA.

Interesting if only because they show Obama performing unexpectedly strong in Ohio and Pennsylvania. Additionally, this is yet further proof that the Clinton camp should not and would be wise not to argue their case based on polls. If they did, they would merely be pointing out that Obama has a good chance of winning Ohio and Pennsylvania. And that even though he will probably lose Florida, she is losing (according to polls) in places like Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, Washington, Iowa, Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico.

It is without question that Obama needs to bring his numbers up in places like Ohio and Pennsylvania. A Jim Webb or Wesley Clark would do that easily.

Anyway, me thinky that the Clinton camp does not want to go down the “Hey, check out THESE polls!” road. No, my friends, that is a perilous road indeed.

I would just like to repeat that the 15 + two out of the three (PN/OH/FL)was a BRILLIANT success for Al Gore in 2000 and great in 2004 for John Kerry. I have enjoyed BOTH of their Democratic Presidencies.

Personally, I would like to try Obama's expanded electoral map and tell Ohio and Florida to go screw themselves. They haven't come through in the past, and I doubt they will again this year. And frankly Florida couldn't run a competant election if only 3 people cast ballots.

Let's try for Colorado, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, The Dakotas, and Virgina. All places Obama is running extremely well!

I'm ready for a different strategy than the one that led tow two terms of George W. Bush

I totally agree. I am so over all of the Ohio and Florida drama every election.

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I think the real issue here is that it's important to make the Rs expend resources in a lot of states. In the past two election cycles, it has been easy for them to marshall their resources to maximum advantage in the one or two really close states that Ds had to win. This is clearly a strategic advantage. In addition, by not even trying to win traditionally red states, whether it was Kerry or Clinton or Gore, it means that the president has to work with a Senate where 60 or more senators know that their constituents did not even come close to voting for the president's policies. It's a stupid strategy.

Brilliant post, and my thoughts exactly. Point a) Obama still wins PA and OH with this poll, and yet the states you mention are states Obama could and most likely would, win. Hillary doesn't even put them into contention.

It's time for a new, 50-state strategy. I'm tired of the old "let's just focus on swing stats" crap. It doesn't work.

Wow, a headline that reads like a Clinton campaign press release!

I know this goes both ways (eg Obama's current lead over McCain in many purple states Clinton can't put into play), but seriously, until we have a nominee and the actual D vs R campaign begins, we can't put a lot of emphasis on these state polls.

As for the PA poll--that's the third recent poll (out of 3, IIRC) that show movement toward Obama. That, my friends, is "significant."

Surely it's worth pointing out that the only one of these states where the poll has McCain ahead of Obama is one in which Obama has not campaigned?

It doesn't take profound political science to notice that polls change drastically when Obama favors a state with his personal attention.

I think you're right and I'm surprised such an obvious factor has been largely ignored. Although I'm willing to admit that Hillary would probably fare better in Florida no matter what, certainly Obama would have a better shot against McCain if he could actually talk to voters.

Remember, also, that in the other two states independent voters have been spoon-fed Hillary's kitchen sink attacks on Obama. Once the ridiculous "shame on you" stuff is old news and people have to listen to McCain, Obama's numbers will rise.

Great news for Hillary. Isn't thsi excactly what she has been saying? The limp wristed one cannot hold onto the Demcratic base and Obama should resign from the campaign immediatly and throw his support behind Hillary unless he wants the Democrats to lose the election.

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"Limp wristed one"...?

So now you are trying to insinuate that Obama is not a real man?

Can the HRC trolls (as opposed to actual HRC supporters) sink any lower?

'Not significantly down' in PA? Her 12-point lead is now a 9-point lead, a 25% decline? How is that not significant, Eric?

Agreed.

And it continues the trend we've seen in other polls of Obama closing the gap. That's the story.

Wow. This comment appeard after only one refresh. Is TPM getting their act together finally?

Absolutely not! That was a fluke. I wait 10+ minutes for a post to appear.

Yeah. It certainly was a fluke. haha, I'm back to waiting 5+ minutes.

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A drop of 300 basis points!

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Let's try for Colorado, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, The Dakotas, and Virgina. All places Obama is running extremely well!

I actually don't believe in boutique campaigning - I think Dean has the right approach - all 50 states are important and all 50 states need campaigning in. (that's an awkward sentence - sorry)

I know what you're saying and I agree he is strong in those places - but hell, he hardly has to campaign in New Mexico. I live there part of the year and there is no way McCain will win there. At least, that's how I see it.

Isn't it time someone pointed out that McCain is tied, at best, in national polls and in swing states despite receiving favorable press while running unopposed the last month?

This election is going to be a blowout.

I'd also like to point out that if Obama is leading McCain right now in Penn and Ohio, that means he'll crush him in November.

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This election is going to be a blowout.

I may well be and I'm sick of the rumors running around that somehow Obama's campaign is being secretly run by the Rush Chaos Squad. In the first place, I don't believe there really is such a thing.

But anecdotally, I'll tell y'all what a Republican who is supporting Obama told me: "I am convinced the next president will be a Democrat and I don't want it to be Hillary Clinton."

I don't find this particular sinister, but I got an email yesterday from Makethemaccountable, with a post from myDD, of all places, and the Clinton campaign is now saying that Obama won the delegate count in Texas because Repugs want to run against him and they voted in the caucuses for him for that reason and because Rush Limbaugh told them to. I do not think that's true at all - that's not what I've been told my any number of Dallas Republicans whom I know well and who wouldn't feed me a load of bullshit.

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Ha don't count on Utah I was born and raised there. They vote who the church tells them to and certainly it won't be a Democrat.

Eric's become the concern troll of TPM.

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Why do you guys keep posting "snapshot" polls? Rather then "Clinton leads by 9" it should be "Clinton lead narrows from 13 to 9"

Anyway, Obama has said that anything less then a 10 point loss would be a win for his team. All they have to do here is "beat the spread" or at least not get crushed.

perhaps it is worth noting that clinton and mccain have both campaigned in florida-- clinton as first lady and mccain in 2000. the voters familiarity with those candidates could help explain why obama remains behind in florida-- he has not campaigned there yet. the primary season has shown that obama gains support wherever he campaigns (just as the numbers are getting tighter in PA).
peace
gkp

If and when you take serious, people that no one has taken seriously. You find out what indifference does to the standard of discourse.

Black people have being marginalize, their opinions not counted to the point that when white America started to listen they found out just how “unscripted” black politicians and church leaders can be.

It shook me when I heard how, a man like Bob Johnson a billionaire spoke of a US Senator (Obama), or how Andrew Young spoke of Obama and Bill Clinton, or just how natural child like honesty Michelle conveyed in her speeches.

Or how the sermons of Rev. Wright sound like conflation Urban myth, because no one have paid much attention to them or held them to a higher standard.

Just listen to Black Congressmen they sound like a mad man or a child because those are the two other categories of beings whose Opinions does not matter and who have become accustom to that fact.

The “shocking ignorance” that Obama talked about in his Pennsylvanian speech, goes beyond the church and in to mainstream black America, because unlike white America where everything you say is given a certain weight and where you learn to chose your words carefully, Black culture have become the realm of silliness where everything goes and where there is no consequence of being or acting like a fool.

The internals of the poll showed that 40% whites think that it has being advantageous for Obama to be black and running for president of USA those are Ferrari democrats, the people that believe that Obama is “lucky” to be black

By the way “Clintons delenda est”

PPP has Obama up 2 in PA?

I don't think I really buy that (although I'd love to believe it) but, again, it just supports all the other polls that show him closing the gap.

Other polls have had him further ahead than Hillary in Pennsylvania, and about the same in Ohio. Obama hasn't campaigned in Florida yet, so those numbers aren't reliable.

Also none of the polls take into account hugely increased anti-Hillary turnout from the GOP, which would blow her out of the water come election day.

Obama inspires people, Hillary makes them see red.

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You know, this talk about where each candidate is polling against McCain is truly asinine. THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS SPLIT DOWN THE MIDDLE! OF COURSE MCCAIN POLLS WELL!

Once we have a nominee, McCain's numbers will be in the shitter. Whether we're talking about campaign fundraising or votes cast so far, BOTH Democrats are so far ahead of McCain that he's hardly in the race. I suspect, once Obama finally wins the nomination, McCain be 10 points or more behind within a week.

Damn! And I was all fired up about the Rasmussen poll from yesterday!

My heart can't take much more of this daily polling. I sit here pressing "refresh", wondering when the next poll is going to be published!

"Obama is a candidate made to beat someone like McCain; however, McCain is a candidate made to beat someone like Hillary."

Something cool (by blogger cm) in Ambinder.

Read the rest of the good stuff by cm here.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/04/icymi_mccain_makes_fun_of_lett.php


Josh & Greg, Ambinder and DU have a preview (of posts) facility. You guys plan do to some improvements here ?

(Of course, now that you have done a dang job on having to sign in every 19.98 seconds, I would expect you to take this up asap, right ?)

I think Hillary's numbers may tank when those tax returns finally get released ( if they ever do). Its clear that there are things in those returns that Hillary does not want Democratic voters to see. I'm betting the delay is being caused by her folks trying to figure out the best "spin" to put on the most embarrassing stuff, which likely includes the use of tax shelters to lower her effective tax rate. Wolfson keeps claiming that all of her financial info is already public, but none of that info shows how much she and Bill actually pay in taxes. I'll bet her effective rate is far lower than most of the common folk whom she supposedly champions. The bloggers and media really need to start asking every day--Where are the Clinton tax returns???

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OK, I haven't been wanting to claim a TPM Hillary bias, but that headline combined with the cherry-picking of swing states to highlight is making it pretty blatant. Your presentation ignores that Obama is still ahead of McCain in two of those states and conveniently avoids mention of the many other swing states that Obama brings into play, like Colorado and Virginia.

Does the fact that we don't get a thread for the PPP poll add to this?

Three weeks to go and that PA gap is still narrowing.

Know what else? Obama won Texas.

Ignore the PPP poll. All it will do is allow Hillary to move the goalposts. There is NO way Obama is winning in Pa. at the moment. His campaign needs to tamp down expectations, because each time he is surging and about to KO Hillary, something happens, and she becomes the Comeback Kid. It drives me mad.

With all Obama's money (Obama spends money like its growing on trees --- for every dollar Clinton spends, Obama spends 5 dollars!) and with the media thinking Obama is JFK, RFK, Martin luther King, Jr., Mandela, and Christ himself, why isn’t Obama winning by leaps and bounds? Obama only wins when he can spend massive money and buy people! And this myth that when you get to know him you like him is getting old --- ask Ohio, California, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Florida, Texas, and other states where he campaigned! Obama does alot of spinning --- he should have vertigo from the spinning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, yeah? Well what about Wyoming? Cows are people too, you know!

With all Obama's money (Obama spends money like its growing on trees --- for every dollar Clinton spends, Obama spends 5 dollars!) and with the media thinking Obama is JFK, RFK, Martin luther King, Jr., Mandela, and Christ himself, why isn’t Obama winning by leaps and bounds? Obama only wins when he can spend massive money and buy people! And this myth that when you get to know him you like him is getting old --- ask Ohio, California, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Florida, Texas, and other states where he campaigned! Obama does alot of spinning --- he should have vertigo from the spinning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hillary will win Pennsylvania no problem!
Obama should quit! NOT HILLARY!

"Clinton leads 59 - 34 percent among white Pennsylvania likely primary voters, while Obama leads 73 - 11 percent among black Democrats."

(emphasis added)

methinks the Quinnipiac people are comparing apples and pears...

If you have not read Josh Putnam's brilliant analysis of the match-up polls, I cannot encourage you to do so too strongly. The take-home point: for every big state that Obama's candidacy helps McCain take, there is an equal or larger number of electoral votes that Obama picks off of McCain's plate in other states. As such, this "he is not winning the big swing states" argument is beside the point. The total number of electoral votes, not the particular combination of states won, is the really important factor in the end, and by that metric Obama is ahead of Clinton.

To poorly paraphrase the Lord, what does it profit a woman to gain all of Ohio but to lose the overall electoral college?

FL and PA are Clinton swingstates, but for Obama only gravy.

According to a SUSA electoral map poll, Obama wins 280 electors without PA and FL.

Meanwhile, Clinton is doomed if she can't win FL.

exactly. Obama will win with a different map than any Dem in recent memory, which to my mind is all to the good. Redrawing the map is yet another version of "breaking the gridlock."

Here's how I see it: if Obama is the nominee, then win or lose we'll see a different distribution of red and blue on the electoral map - one that is based on policy and issue concerns rather than on the current regionalisms we've grown accustomed to. Breaking down the "coasts v. heartland" or "metro v. retro" or whatever other memeschema we've used to define the blue/red divide is a good thing. It means that "The South" or "The Midwest" or "New England" is not a monolithic voting block, whose allegiance can simply be taken for granted. This opens up national and local races to potential realignment. If, for example, North Carolina can turn blue for Obama, then there's absolutely no reason to think that it won't oust Richard Burr in 2010. And vice-versa: North Carolina is on the verge of nominating a progressive gay candidate, Jim Neal, to challenge Liddy Dole's Senate seat in 2008. Whose to say it won't turn blue for Obama?

But sticking with the same "swing state strategy" of 50+1 that lost in 2000 and 2004 won't get Clinton elected, and it won't help downticket Dems - because it does nothing but solidify pre-existing antagonisms. We already know that the Republicans win that particular "us versus them" game. We need a new hegemony. Hence, we need a new candidate, and a new map.

As a friend of mine was recently told, "this isn't rocket surgery."

Another Super Delegate goes into the Obama column:

Wed Apr 2, 8:50 AM ET

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Wednesday won the endorsement of Lee Hamilton, a former Indiana congressman who is a leading U.S. authority on foreign relations and national security.
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The support of Hamilton, who co-chaired two blue-ribbon commissions that investigated the September 11 attacks and advised President George W. Bush on the war in Iraq, could boost the Illinois senator in his May 6 Indiana primary contest against New York Sen. Hillary Clinton.

Hamilton said Obama offers American voters the best chance to create a new sense of national unity and transcend division.

"He champions the politics of consensus, not of partisan division," the longtime Democratic Party figure said in a statement. "He is driven by the search for the common good."

Hamilton, also backed Obama on foreign relations, an area where the White House hopeful has been criticized for inexperience.

"His foreign policy is pragmatic, visionary and tough," said Hamilton, former Democratic chairman of the U.S. House of Representatives committees on foreign affairs and intelligence.

"He will work with our friends and allies. He will strengthen our ability to use all tools of American power and relentlessly promote the American values of freedom and justice for all people."

It was the latest key Democratic endorsement for Obama in his race against Clinton for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination. The two face hard-fought primary election battles in both Indiana and Pennsylvania in the next several weeks.

Obama also has picked up other endorsements recently from New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson and Pennsylvania Sen. Bob Casey.

Hamilton represented Indiana in the House from 1965 through 1999. He now is president and director of the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars

I thought Hamilton wasn't a SD.

you're right. he's not.

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Once again, it is "Groundhog Day" for Hillary. Would anyone bet money that Obama will continue to narrow Hillary's lead, then either win, or lose by less than 3 points?

Everyone would bet on that.

That is why Hillary has no chance because it is not winner take all, it is proportional delegate allotment. She will not make up significant ground on Obama. The press loves talking about a winner, like when Hillary "won" Texas. The thing is, Obama got more delegates from the Texas primaries.

But all this just makes Sen. Dorf McCain smile. He seemed in a great mood on Letterman last night.

The McCain White House, brought to you by the hubris and ego of Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Clinto delanda est

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Yeah, because quitting while you're ahead is such an established precedent. After all, it's why the Allies didn't have to invade Normandy.

When the polls show your candidate ahead, work like you're down ten points. When they show you're behind, work twice as hard.

While both the Quinnipiac and the PPP polls were based on relatively large samples (1200-1500 likely voters), the Quinnipiac poll was conducted over an entire week (3/24-3/31), whereas the PPP poll was completed on Monday and Tuesday.

Clinton's campaign took big hits over her Bosnia amnesia at the end of last week, and many of those surveyed in the early days of the Quinnipiac poll would not have been affected. All of the respondents in the PPP poll had a chance to hear about the Bosnian flap.

I know too much about politicized polls to be misled by them.

As I understand it, the Clinton campaign had an initial 15-25 pt. lead. Last week, Gov. Rendell, who endorsed Clinton, hedged a little and said he thinks it's between 10-25 pt. lead.

I'd also caution against pundits drawing conclusions about what states you have to win, or not win based on the past.

This year is very different.

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