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Polls Show Possible Movement To Clinton In Pennsylvania

The latest round of polls from Pennsylvania show Hillary Clinton ahead going into tomorrow's big primary. Keep in mind, a big win for Hillary could very well give her a boost in momentum, ensuring that this primary campaign goes on for quite a while longer.

From Quinnipiac, compared to a week ago:

Clinton 51% (+1)
Obama 44% (+0)

From Suffolk (no prior numbers):

Clinton 52%
Obama 42%

And Zogby, compared to yesterday:

Clinton 48% (+2), Obama 42% (-1)

From Zogby's analysis: "A big one-day of polling for Clinton. If a 10-point victory is the pundit-driven threshold she needs on Tuesday, it looks like she can do it. This does not look like a one-day anomaly--undecideds dropped to only 5% in this latest single day of polling, and they are breaking Clinton's way."


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SurveyUSA shows momentum heading the other way, though.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see, huh?

Very exciting!

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Pundit-driven threshold?

Jesus, can't anyone in this country do simple mathematics anymore? She needs 65% in PA and every remaining primary to even get within striking distance on delegates. And she's going to fall at least 8 points short of that in PA; probably more like 11 points short.

"Jesus, can't anyone in this country do simple mathematics anymore?"

After 7 years of Bush's education policies, I'm thinking no, not so much...

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Tell me about it. I just found out that the Childhoods of Great Americans books I started tearing through in second grade are still in print - recommended for grades 9-12. I'm completely appalled. At this rate, 50 years from now, no one will know how to read at all.

And then the right-wing takeover of the country shall be complete.

As Ray Bradbury said "You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them."

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The movie Idiocracy anyone?

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Of course the movie pegged it at 500 years.

Well hats off to Hillary for spinning press outlets (including TPM) into believing a 10 point win is a momentum changer. Even 10 points would not make a meaningful dent in the delegate totals and would still leave her 500,000 votes behind in the mythical "popular vote."

Hillary started in PA with a 20 point lead. She needs at least a 15 point win to make a dent in the delegate lead. But kudos. They have played the expectations game beautifully.

Merle, this has nothing to do with how well the Clinton campaign plays the expectations game. It has to do with how bad the media is at providing honest and accurate analysis. Whether because of their incompetence or desire to keep the primary going (and the ratings/readership it brings in), they have clearly failed.

If you'll remember, Obama told his donors that losing by any less than ten points would be a victory. So, even by his expectations, a 10+ point win will be a victory to Clinton.

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Sky = falling!

10 % behind Clinton would be a marvelous thing for Obama. His ceiling of support in PA is a steady 45 %, he can't do much better, everything else is just gaming expectations.

Just to put into perspective how steep the road for Obama in PA is: http://www.pollster.com/08-PA-Dem-Pres-Primary.php

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What did I miss? When did the number for a big win come down to ten points? She was expected to take PA by close to twenty (which is what she actually needs to do in every remaining state - not just PA). I don't pay much attention to pundits, have they been gaming her expectations this low?

Eric's a Clinton supporter, which is obvious from his "caveats" and littly snarky comments in his posts.

The ten points game was all Obama.

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Sounds like Ohio redux. Though I certainly hope not.

The thing is, if this pans out, it won't change the end result -- Obama winning the nomination. All it will do is add to cost of getting it and help McSame in the general. Not that Hillary gives a shit.

nah. we're going all the way to the convention and getting the nomination. deal with it.

It's appropriate that you quoted Marion Barry because anyone who thinks Hillary has even the remotest chance to get the nomination has to be smoking crack.

Survey USA, the gold standard shows momentum towards Obama.

From canvassing for Obama in Philly over the weekend, my own anecdotal evidence suggests that he has the momentum in Philly and that AA turnout is going to be much bigger than predicted.

The problem for Obama is not Philly but all the small Backwater, PA.

It's not the 'pundit-driven' margin, it's what it will take for Clinton to give up and do the whole party unity thing. Sadly, any margin of victory (even a loss, probably) will keep her in. She's running for 2012 at this point, and the only way to win in 2012 is to make sure there's a Republican in the White House for four more years.

SUSA is out just now showing the exact opposite of the trend, she went down from being 14 ahead to being only 6 ahead. Given Zogby's track-record I wouldn't put that much stock on a trend based only on them.

Do you have a link?

Obama wins by losing. Clinton leaves PA with no dent in Obama's lead in delegates, broke and without the opportunity to spend money in NC and Indiana. Once again, Obama made a brilliant decision to contest here. It was never about winning for him -- indeed Obama never said he thought he could. And a tip to Nick Clemons -- Clinton's PA campaign chief. His great work for Clinton has demonstrated that he is among the best in the business. Our prospects for the November election are great because of the emergence of him and other young professionals in the national Democratic party. let's start thinking ahead and the need to keep McCain out.

She'll win by 15 pts. as was predicted months ago.

Months ago she was up by 20+.

Not sure where you're pulling that from, but good lord, I hope you're wrong.

It's really a relief to see figures presented objectively. The Gallup poll accompanied a recent posting with Obama two points ahead with the phrase "Obama slightly ahead". Another poll found Hillary Clinton three points ahead and had the following commentary "barely ahead" and "statistically insignificant".

I hope everyone realizes what an Axelrod-Obama barrage we are all going through. Stay alert. Resist the Glitz!

It's really a relief to see figures presented objectively. The Gallup poll accompanied a recent posting with Obama two points ahead with the phrase "Obama slightly ahead". Another poll found Hillary Clinton three points ahead and had the following commentary "barely ahead" and "statistically insignificant".

I hope everyone realizes what an Axelrod-Obama barrage we are all going through. Stay alert. Resist the Glitz!

"Obama wins by losing. Clinton leaves PA with no dent in Obama's lead in delegates, broke and without the opportunity to spend money in NC and Indiana. Once again, Obama made a brilliant decision to contest here. It was never about winning for him -- indeed Obama never said he thought he could. And a tip to Nick Clemons -- Clinton's PA campaign chief. His great work for Clinton has demonstrated that he is among the best in the business. Our prospects for the November election are great because of the emergence of him and other young professionals in the national Democratic party. let's start thinking ahead and the need to keep McCain out."

That's interesting.

Also his bad week helps him. Why? Because bitter-gate and the ABC debate-debacle can easily explain her likely big victory. So it will be written off. His expectations after this past week are zilch.

ABC debate-debacle? Oh, you mean that debate where the moderators dared to ask tough questions of the frontrunner for the first time in his campaign, and he got all huffy?

We've seen this pattern before, and we will see it now. To wit:

Tuesday: MSNBC calls it, along with CNN. Hillary wins by 11 points. Bobbleheads talk up a Clinton victory. There will be "But was it enough?" questions that will be answered only realistically by Chuck Todd. Bobbleheads will discuss "momentum shifts" to Clinton. Followed by talk about how much "damage" was done to Obama with the Wright, et al. controversies. Much ado is made about Obama's failure to win the critical "white male vote," and chitter chatter about Catholics ensues. Surrogates appear to offer contrarian views that (a) this was the win Hillary needed, Obama outspent her and still couldn't "put it away," she's electable, doubts remain as to Obama's electability, and (b) Obama did better than expected, he was down 20, came back, he has the delegate lead, on to other contests.

Tuesday night, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday: Blogs are alit by various factions hailing Hillary as the comeback kid, on to the nomination, etc. Obama supporters point to the math, Hillary's behind in all measurable metrics. A new round of wailing and gnashing over the new goalpost of popular vote. Name-calling ensues. gotalife presents as smug. Etc. etc. etc.

Friday: Shine of the victory wears off a bit as media recovers from post-Pennsylvania masturbatory reportage. Some look ahead to Indiana and North Carolina. Acknowledge Obama ahead in North Carolina. IS INDIANA THE NEW BATTLEGROUND?? is the media meme. Blog orcs continue to tear at each other senselessly.

Sunday: This Week with Meet the Nation's Last Word Sunday roundtables offer slightly warmed over and obvious arguments. Chuck Todd quietly keeps pointing to the numbers. Various theories as to Superdelegate trickles that have occurred since Tuesday. Is the fact that Hillary picked up four new SD's telling? puppets breathlessly ask. Is the fact that Obama picked up five new SDs telling? is the next breathless meme. WHAT WILL THE DNC DO??! is bandied about. Howard Dean appears, remains relatively non-comittal.

Week of the 27th: More SDs trickle one way or the other. More gnashing and rending on the blogs. Poll reading for Indiana becomes a form of self-abuse.

Weekend of the 3rd: Could this be Hillary's last stand???! is the new meme as it appears she only picked up 8 delegates. Chuck Todd quietly continues to point to the magic wipe board.

May 6: Obama wins NC handily, edges out Clinton in Indiana.

Night of May 6: Pennsylvania what, now?

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It's like you can see into the future, Lars. Amazing! And of course also accurate is the omission from predicted bobblehead discussion of the fact that the Penn-NC-Indiana contests will have produced a net delegate pickup for Obama.

I continue to marvel at the stupidity of thinking "momentum" has any applicability to this contest. There is obviously no momentum, it's always the same demographics-dependent patterns repeating.

Keep on plugging away Obamaites and it will surely be John McCain hugging W on that podium on Jan 20, 2009 not BO.

That mental picture alone would ensure Barack wins the general Huge.

i can't find the link that shows hillary losing ground in pennsylvania, according to surveyusa..... where is the link????

hmm, looks like someone is targeting that crown royal vote as well. so shove it, hypocrites.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?o=0&f=/n/a/2008/04/21/politics/p045530D59.DTL

PPP has been the ONLY polling outfit NEVER wrogn this election cycle.

Obama Predicts Close Finish! Nabs Ohio Superdelegate!
by kubla000
Mon Apr 21, 2008 at 07:57:00 AM PDT
The tone is strikingly different than "Remember New Hampshire" prior to Texas... the Internals must be looking up...

Here's Obama today

"I think it’s going to be pretty close, we’re campaigning pretty hard."

"I’m predicting it’s going to be close and that we are going to do a lot better than people expect."


interesting(from Daily Kos)

That's extremely interesting. What does the Obama campaign possibly have to gain by raising expectations?

You gotta keep em on the edge uh Eric? You gotta keep that income coming in right Eric? It would be like you pulling one of your own teeth out to say Clinton has this one BIG wouldn't it? Obamaites would clammor for your head if you told them the truth. You and Josh Marshall's desperation for Obama is sickening. Your treat him like a messiah. That should scare you to hold a man in such pathetic high regard. Didn't the Bushites do the same with Bush in 2000? Even still right up to today. Your destined for a crash. You can't deify a man like you are Obama and him not crash and burn. Oh the pain the Bushies are experiencing now. Study it for future reference!

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