« Obama Advisers See Need To Improve His Efforts With Blue Collar Voters | Home | Poll: More Than A Third Of Dems Think Hillary Should Drop Out »

Polls: Hillary And Obama Dead Even Nationally -- And In Indiana

In the latest sign that the Dem primary is basically deadlocked -- in some polls, if not in the pledged del or popular vote count -- the latest Gallup tracking poll finds that Hillary and Obama have been dead even nationally for two days now.

They're tied at 47%. This finding represents the second set of numbers taken since the Pennsylvania primary, suggesting that her victory has for the moment resulted in Dems being divided right down the middle.

Meanwhile, the latest CNN "poll of polls", which was released Friday, finds the two deadlocked in Indiana, too. Both have 45% of likely Dem voters.

Late Update: Of course, Pollster.com's average of national polls puts Obama up by roughly nine points.

Late Late Update: Obama leads 49%-41% in today's Rasmussen tracking poll.


85 Comments

| Leave a comment

Multiple other polls have him maintaining a 6 to 8 pts nationally (newsweek, rasmussen, etc). I tend to think Gallup's methop of polling isn't as reliable.

Although I do suspect IN is going to be a nailbiter!

REV. WRIGHT APPEARANCES BIG BOOST FOR BARRY !

In a race for the "underdog" status Obama seems to be leading the charge to the bottom as the sociopathic Rev Wright continues to stalk the American public.

"Wright's reappearance and lunatic jabbering could not come at a better time for us. We project we will regain the underdog status and firm disadvantage going into the next round"
David Axelrod

VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE
NOT YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE

OMG, OMG, OMG.

A tie in Indiana, combined with a loss in NC, is not good enough for the senator from New York. The media's doing everything they can to help the Hillary comeback narrative off the ground but the voters don't seem to care.

user-pic

A WIN in Indiana is not enough for Clinton to take the nomination.

She's already lost it.


That means there are ten-points to be had in Indiana. C'mon, hoosiers! Can't you smell what Barack is cooking?


It doesn't matter, except to give the brain-dead talking heads something to chatter about for a few days, which of them wins Indiana by 2 points. Back in the land of reality, all that matters is that Hillary can't make any significant delegate pickup there, while on the same day she'll lose a substantial amount of ground in NC.

Deadlocked? You seem to have overlooked the math:

http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2008/04/pennsylvania-results.html

That is anything but deadlocked. Unless Indiana and every other state is showing a 20+ point lead for Hillary, and unless she can go back in time and beat Obama in a few other states he won, there is no way in hell this race is deadlocked.

Did you real that analysis right off Hillary's website or what?

Deadlocked, lol..

Deadlocked indeed. I'm just shaking my head. Don't you just love the headline, then the little updates at the bottom? Kind of like how MSNBC and CNN do things.

user-pic

Greg - one of these days can you provide context to these national polls and explain that with 7 states left to vote it doesn't really matter.

National polling existing before Iowa that had Hillary up 20 points, and yet Obama won Iowa. A primary is a state-by-state contest.

Oh, and Rasmussen's tracking has Obama up 49-41 today.

And Rasmussen, nationally - Obama 49, Clinton 41.

I suggest TPM should lead the media and become a model for not headlining only one poll. This approach has been used by the media, too often using their own polls and ignoring the 47 other polls that have been done in the interim. Or one is picked because it fits with some storyline. Thus CNN - Gallup is headlined, Newsweek is metioned in text (where Obama leads), and others such as Rasmussen are not shown.

Any one poll by itself has weaknesses when used as a predictor or even as a reliable snapshot. Gallup and Rasmussen have weaknesses though I used the two to show the problem with headlining one poll. What should be headlined is clear trends or reliable polls of polls. This now hurts Obama but earlier it hurt Clinton, depending on how the media plays it at moment.

How about "Latest Polls," then list them. Oh, right -- they already do that. Hmm. Then why the big headlines at all?

Well less see what the new spin will be, in Penn. everyones is saying why can Sen> Obama can't close the deal, my question is Sen. Clinton had a 26% lead and won by only 9.6% wow!!! i just had to ask my self you really can close the deal.

9.6% ? Cant bring yourself to allow HRC her double digit victory ? 10%. The desperation to deny HRC her due is laughable.

The polls that showed >20% lead in Pennsylvania were all when it was HRC vs multiple candidates. Once JE dropped out and his votes went to BO, he jumped up dramatically in the polls, but the overall lead of HRC vs non-HRC was the same. When all is said and done, BO managed to shave off about 6% off her lead from an average 16% to 10%. Not bad. But that required outspending her 3-1 on TV.

The final was 9.2, not 9.6.

Okay, the choice is clear.

We must unite with Clinton like the gop did with mcwar.

If we do not, nothing will change and it will be your fault.

So, if you really want change and really want to win this time and not lose three in a row,

Hillary Clinton is the obvious choice.

You are just phoning it in. Where's the vitrol? The intellectually dishonest statements? Up is down, down is up. Coming gotalife, we expect more from our trolls....

I quit drinking years ago, but I will make three special exceptions to that rule.

1) I'll toast when Hillary concedes (forced or otherwise)
2) I'll toast when Obama is inaugrated as the 44th President of the USA
3) I'll toast when Hillary is defeated in her senatorial re-election effort.

I will sincerely enjoy your insightful posts when all three happen.

user-pic

I think Hillary is unsuited for (and unlikely to become) president, but she'd make a great Senate Majority Leader. We'll make Bill an ambassador or something, and maybe--just maybe...

user-pic

Gee, some people might think the update makes the headline, which is also big on the TPM frontpage, misleading.

And on the national head-to-head, Gallup has been the outlier for a good ten days now.

I disagree, gotalife. I believe Barack Obama is the obvious choice. The polling from Rasmussen showing Clinton polling 59% of African American votes in a general election match up with McCain. That's catastrophic.

Democrats can win without a majority of white working class. Try winning with 59% of the African American vote. It won't happen.

I imagine that those superdelegates who are on the ballot this year don't want to be downticket with the Presidential nominee losing 41% of the African American vote to the Republican party.

Just my perspective.

user-pic

What's incredible, still, to me, is the extent to which the Clinton campaign has structured the narrative and the attention of the media. It's all about Indiana now. North Carolina? Almost an afterthought.

Why are the states that Clinton is expected to win the most important?

user-pic

Because as I keep saying, the minute the Clintons drop out there goes the big story that is keeping CNN 24/7 going with a nonstory to pump. Same with every blog that has a web page to fill.

It's the Media and the blogs are just as bad this time around.

Yeah, most people seem to forget NC has more delegates. However, the outcome of IN is less certain so it's the more "dramatic" story.

The upside is that will bite her in the ass bigtime if she does manage to lose Indiana.

If? IF she manages to lose Indiana?!? There is not "if" about this. She will lose Indiana - or rather, Obama will win Indiana.

I really hope that you are right and the psychological toll of her loss there is steep. I am not at all clear as to why this is supposed to be a strong state for her, but if others think as much, so much the better for us.

Even Cokie Roberts was admitting on NPR this morning that if Hillary loses IN it's all over. And you don't get more establishment CW than Cokie.

user-pic

I have been watching the Gallup poll for a while. It seems to swing about 10 points just when the Clinton people need it too swing. It has done it a couple of times over the last few weeks. I suspect the electorate is not as fickle as Gallup seems to make it out. There is something very fishy about Gallup. The other polls are swinging about a 3 point axis. Either Gallup's methodology is wrong or somebody is manipulating it.

Sure, sure, if you average all the Indiana polls together, it is a dead heat. Look at the date-stamps on those polls, however. What do the new polls say and what do the old polls say? Clinton wins the obsolete polls, while Obama leads the current ones. Look at the trendlines. Look at the RCP average for IN. Obama is going to win IN. I am not buying the line that says that Clinton has to win IN in order to keep going, but if one actually believes that then it is hard to see much hope for Clinton's chances in the near term.

There is a reader post about how grateful Indianans ought to be about having another Clinton in office. (FYI- bad HTML tags to read through)

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/a-call-out-to-northwest-indian.php

Greg: I know you are involved in the Obama campaign, and I think you are also cautious. Why are you so sure he will win in Indiana?

"In the latest sign that the Dem primary is basically deadlocked -- in some polls, if not in the pledged del or popular vote count --"

Your bias is dissapointing.

"If not"??? You have doubts about the pledged delegates lead? You have doubts about a lead of 160 pledged delegates?

"If not"?? You have doubts about the popular vote lead? Did you really take for granted Clinton's BS about the popular vote? For Pete's sake, we're talking about 600,000 votes.

You, of all places TPM, should not be pushing this fabricated horse race narrative.

Survey USA (which has been one of the most accurate pollsters this year) has Clinton up 9 points in Indiana. Poll was released this morning. Hillary 52%, Obama 43%. Hillary is looking very good in Indiana.

user-pic

That's nice dear. And what do you suppose a win is going to get her?

Huh?

I'm so damn bored with this fiction that Clinton still has a chance that I could scream. One more day of this and I'm swearing off blogs.

I am very disappointed in what the blogs are doing with this election season. It's as bad as the MSM and I'm deeply disillusioned.

It is the only poll worth paying attention.

The gop strategy is to tie Obama to Wright like the Dems tying mcwar to bush.

The gop can't tie Wright to Clinton.

The choice is clear.

Well, if you want to be picky, the GOP can tie Wright to Clinton, they just can't tie him to Clinton nearly as closely as they can tie him to Obama.

Got a link? I can't find the poll you speak of.

Found it. I hope it's wrong. I'm hoping for the sweep and the knockout.

Might I ask where you are seeing this report. I would be interested to have a look at it.

When did that poll come out? The recent polls I am looking at have Obama ahead between 1 and 5 points....

Are you looking at Survey USA from the end of March?

user-pic

Last Survey USA had Clinton up by 16 points.

Er, actually, that poll was taken on Apr 11. On Apr 19 SUSA released a poll showing Obama 5 pts ahead in IN. In other words, the SUSA track record shows Clinton starting ahead, narrowing in mid-Apr (pre PA) and now retaking a new lead post PA which is narrower than her starting lead. Call it hubris, call it wishful thinking, but I am going go on record as saying that this jump will prove very short lived for Clinton. The fact that she was losing pre-PA demonstrates her weakness among Hoosier voters. She managed to ride a wave of favorable news coverage to a renewed lead, but that will all fade in a few days and then folks will be right back to where they were in mid-April.

This post is why TPM should resist breathless coverage of polls. It starts off by looking good for Hillary, but by the "late update" it is clear that Barack is winning....But none of this captures the REALITY that Barack is ahead in the only metric that counts, pledged delegates, and Hillary cannot catch him.

Was anyone else a bit perplexed with Howard Dean's statement today regarding the candidate will be decided by June? He made it sound as if HRC and Obama are neck to neck nationally, like Hillary was very much in this with Obama. I thought he came across as disingenuous.

user-pic

You seem to be perpetually unhappy with Dean and things.

What do you want?

What is it that you think you aren't getting? And what are basing that on?

It's like herding cats...

Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean said Monday that either Hillary Rodham Clinton or Barack Obama must drop out of the Democratic presidential race after the June primaries in order to unify the party by the convention and win the election in November.


This is from Huff Post. Why would Obama need to drop out, that is my point.

user-pic

O -no reason.

That's a stupid statement since he's the nominee.


He wouldn't, but Dean needs to appear (and ideally be) impartial here.

He doesn't. But Dean can't go on t.v. and say, "Hillary needs to drop out now." So he carefully says, "either, etc."

Greg=HillaryClinton(NeoCon-NY) shill

it took you 2 updates to see that rassmussen has Obama 9 ahead and the poll of polls etc....
I realize your anti-Obama ranting will continue, but the polls will show you to be the Hillary shill !

The one thing I see going for Obama right now is that the media isn't talking about Indiana as another chance for him to knock Hillary out of the race. It seems that whenever that happens, things go south for him. I'm glad to see his campaign is taking Indiana super seriously. Despite the math, this thing is closer than it looks. It's not about winning the nomination right now, but the general. If Clinton wins in Indiana, nothing short of a floor fight will stop her. If she loses, there's a chance this thing may wind down in June. This may be alarmist, but Indiana feels make or break for the presidency at the moment. Time to light a fire under the Obamacats.


In the latest sign that the Dem primary is basically OVER -- in MOST polls, AND ALSO in the pledged del or popular vote count -- the latest RASMUSSEN AND GALLUP tracking poll finds that Hillary and Obama have been MANY POINTS APART nationally for A LONG TIME now.

Meanwhile, ANY "poll of polls", WHENEVER released, finds the two 15 POINTS APART in NORTH CAROLINA.

Let me remind everyone that Clinton needs at least 70% of the votes in the remaining states to have a shot at catching up.

Being 15% down in the state which has about a third of the remaining delegates very clearly says that this race is over.


Huh? I though it was "deadlocked"?

Thank you for including all the polls, Greg.

fluffer

I hope it was a snark.

One has to indeed thank Greg for his cute, little "updates" after flaming 96 pt. headlines.

Considering that Obama has had twice as much money (just a wild guess), an adoring MSM, and the endorsements of most of the old Democrat establishment, like that fat bulb-nosed Teddy Kennedy, and yet STILL has not separated from Hillary at this point, is very telling indeed. And also consider that Obama has to be thanking his lucky stars every day that Florida and Michigan won't count this year, not to mention that his Moveon storm-troopers were able to take over caucuses (caucii?) like Nazis taking over beer halls.

The Survey USA Poll was done April 25-27th. It will be released to the general public later today on their website.

New SUSA Indiana Primary Poll done April 25-27
Hillary Clinton 52 %
Barack Obama 43 %
Others 3 %
Undecided 2 %

No Clear Trend in Indiana -- Clinton Ends April Just As She Started: In a Democratic Primary in Indiana today, 04/28/08, 8 days until votes are counted, Hillary Clinton finishes ahead of Barack Obama, according to a SurveyUSA poll conducted for WHAS-TV in Louisville and WCPO-TV in Cincinnati. The results are identical to a SurveyUSA TV poll released 4 weeks ago, on 04/01/08. Clinton led then 52% to 43%, leads now 52% to 43%. Other polls show the contest closer; some polls show Obama ahead. SurveyUSA tracking graphs show movement toward Clinton in the middle of April but offsetting movement to Obama at the end of April. This back-and-forth can be seen clearly on the interactive tracking graphs for males, for Democrats, for pro-choice voters, and for residents of greater Indianapolis. Clinton's advantage is steady among women, steady among voters age 50+, and steady in Southern Indiana, which borders Kentucky. Obama is gaining ground among voters under 50, where he leads for the first time; among liberals, where he leads for the first time; in Northern Indiana, where he is tied for the first time; and in Central Indiana, where he has cut Clinton's lead in half. Clinton, by contrast, is making steady inroads among Independent voters.

The poll has Obama winning just 78% of the black vote. Does that seem right to you?

Hillary up 9 over McCain in latest AP. Obama only up 2.

This before the Wrightpalooza Tour.

I disagree with Gotalife though, I'm not asking Obama to get out right now, he can stay in as long as he wishes. Still. I wish Wright would stop hurting down ticket Dem races.

user-pic

You are the dumbest fucking son of a bitch on this board next to gotalife.

You've been posting that stupid comment now for days. It's dead wrong - it's totally against the evidence.

Every state like Texas that is fighting to go back to the Democrats needs Obama for their downballot races.

Clinton will lose us every single one of those races, you stupid person.

You just keep posting bullshit with no basis, no backup because there is none.

"deadlocked"....jeez

This is stupid. Whay would you trumpet a headline for a day-old Gallup poll when more up to date tracking info was already available from Rasmussen (that showed a very different picture)? Why not just wait for Gallup to release today's tracker at 2 PM? Who knows, maybe Hillary will be winning that one and you can put it in 96-pt. type. Everyone keeps saying to go easy on Greg. Why? This post is either incompetent or demonstrates blatantly pro-Hillary bias.

Don't attack Greg on this. He included the Pollster average, and the Rasmussen poll that was released today.

No. On the front page it says the race is deadlocked. That's the link to his post. "Updates" don't show up on the front page. In this case the Rasmussen "update" was released before the post regarding the day-old Gallup poll. Since the Gallup poll cited is a "daily tracking poll," posting about it 21 hours after release makes no sense unless you have no idea what's going on or you have an agenda. Either way it's inappropriate.

Poll Shows Erosion Of Trust In Clinton
PHILADELPHIA, April 16, 2008(Washingtonpost.com) This story was written by Anne E. Kornblut and Jon Cohen.
Lost in the Hillary Rodham Clinton campaign's aggressive attacks on Barack Obama in recent days is a deep and enduring problem that threatens to undercut any inroads Clinton has made in her struggle to overtake him in the Democratic presidential race: She has lost trust among voters, a majority of whom now view her as dishonest.

Her advisers' efforts to deal with the problem -- by having her acknowledge her mistakes and crack self-deprecating jokes -- do not seem to have succeeded. Privately, the aides admit that the recent controversy over her claim to have ducked sniper fire on a trip to Bosnia probably made things worse.

Clinton is viewed as "honest and trustworthy" by just 39 percent of Americans, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll, compared with 52 percent in May 2006. Nearly six in 10 said in the new poll that she is not honest and trustworthy. And now, compared with Obama, Clinton has a deep trust deficit among Democrats, trailing him by 23 points as the more honest, an area on which she once led both Obama and John Edwards.

This post is pure HRC talking points. They have been saying for weeks, "This race is basically tied" when anyone looking at all the numbers (not just the one HRC wants to trumpet) knows that it isn't.

Glad to see TPM continues to dutifully repeat what HRC's campaign wants people to hear.

Yesterday Howard Dean called the race a tie.

ABC News calculates the popular vote as follows:

Counting Michigan and Florida:
Hillary 15,016,012
Obama 14,904,466

Not counting Michigan and Florida:
Obama 14,335,425
Hillary 13,830,653

user-pic

Considering that only a fool would count the Soviet-style Michigan contest, and that the count does not include the unreported popular vote from IA, ME, WA, and NV, it would appear that Obama has an insurmountable lead in this utterly irrelevant measure as well.

There is WAY to much attention given to "winning" individual states. HRC "won" Nevada but wound up with one FEWER delegate. With the way delegates are allocated, the difference between a narrow win and a narrow loss is nothing more than bragging rights. But of course, that's all the MSM focuses on.

user-pic

Why does Josh allow Greg Sargent a platform on which to spread his pro-Hillary, anti-Obama interpretation of the news?

As Josh has pointed out any ties, minor variations in Gallup's poll mean nothing, they ebb and flow over the course of the campaign. Josh has even mocked news reports that pounce on these headlines.

Seriously, is Greg on Hillary's payroll, or angling for a job with a Clinton Administration?

Greg,
Thanks for the late update with the Rasmussen numbers. How about including them along with the Gallop numbers on the front page headline?

user-pic

Greg:

Have you seen this new SUSA poll finding Clinton's lead remaining at 9 percent in Indiana?

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=fbedb864-ec9d-47ab-87f2-c41203a87585&q=45558

I'm hardly an expert but it seems that the poll underestimates women voters (52%) but also underestimates AA voters, pegged at only 10 percent of the projected electorate. Any thoughts?

Bruce


user-pic

Oops. This was supposed to be in reply to the "Missouri Voter" Greg, not to Greg Sargent. But Sargent you are free to review as well!

Dear Bruce,

I am not sure why you say "remaining." That represents an increase for Sen Clinton. If one pays attention to only the SUSA polls, she started out at 9 on Mar 31, climbed to 16 by Apr 13, dropped into a 5 pt deficit behind Obama by Apr 19 and has now leapt back to a 9 pt lead as of today. Obviously enough, this speaks to a certain volatility in the results which makes it hard to say with any confidence what is the signal and what is the noise.

Since you asked for my thoughts, I will share them, although I am no expert so you should not take them very seriously. I think that what the results show is the usual trend of Clinton starting off with a wide lead which narrows as Obama campaigns and introduces himself to the voters. I expect that the fact that Obama took the lead pre-PA shows that fundamentally the state is favorable to him. Her recent bounce (in my opinion) represents a very temporary post-PA rush of good press coverage, but I expect that by this time next week he will be back in the lead as the fanfar surrounding PA fades.

My track record as a prophet, however, is altogether quite spotty. We will see in time whether I am on to something or just kidding myself.

user-pic

Thanks Greg. I wrote "remaining" because I believe SUSA had the same 9 point spread in early April.

user-pic

Yes, the 3/31 poll you refer to is what I was speaking of, but I did not count the intervening ones that you refer to.

Fair enough. I think that it gives a more accurate picture to consider all the SUSA polls. With that in mind, it seems to me that it is nearer the mark to say that she is "back to" a 9 pt lead than to say that she "remains at" a 9 pt lead.

user-pic

Agreed!

Come on.

No one has done more for the people of America and Indiana than Barack Obama.

user-pic

Sticky "m" on my keyboard:
"any ties" --> many times

Sorry for the typos. :-)

user-pic

Saying the primary is "deadlocked" is a bit much. Come on, no objective observer of the primary really believes that it is "deadlocked".

That is yesterday's poll. The polls are not deadlocked. HRC did not break the line in the new Gallup poll.

And then, of course, today's Gallup poll came out (right on time) and did not in fact show the race deadlocked but Obama moving back to a slight lead.

Leave a comment

Recommended Reader Posts

  • Unwritten...
    by stillidealistic
  • BABIES, RACCOONS AND HEALTH CARE
    by dickday
  • Two Dreamers, by Dorothea Lange
    by Rutabaga Ridgepole
  • Tsunami Wave: Will Wipe Out Republican Party
    by coonsey
  • OBVIOUSLY, YOU AREN'T A HUNTER.....
    by wvbiker
  • The Stupack Amendment played politics with women's lives and won.
    by J. Clarence
  • wooden projects
    by kubaser
  • holly colorado
    by blumun
  • figures geometry
    by muberul
  • short stories
    by lumacer



  • Resources

    The Palin Effect

    GOP Map Of Sleaze

    Tire Swinging

    The Final Debate

    World of Sleaze

    All About Sarah

    The Presidential Debates: Round 2

    The Vice-Presidential Debates: Biden v. Palin

    Critic or Cheerleader The Definitive McCain Iraq Timeline

    The John McCain John Hagee Timeline

    Masthead

    Editor-in-Chief
    Josh Marshall

    Reporter-Bloggers
    Elana Schor
    Eric Kleefeld



    Subscribe to this blog's feed.

    Advertise Liberally
    Share
    Close Social Web Email

    "To" Email Address

    Your Name

    Your Email Address