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Poll: Hillary Up By Only Two Points In Pennsylvania
A new InsiderAdvantage poll of Pennsylvania shows this primary down to a dead heat: Clinton 45%, Obama 43%. The poll gives some measure of corroboration to yesterday's Public Policy Polling (D) survey, which put Obama nominally ahead by two.
From the internals: Clinton leads only 49%-40% among whites, while Obama is ahead 56%-29% with black voters. Clinton is ahead 49%-38% with women, while Obama is ahead 47%-41% with men.
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...with Hillary likely to have just won a big contest and be heading into the debate with some momentum...
April 3, 2008 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
FIREWALL!
April 3, 2008 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. With weeks remaining, he may actually get PA. I didn't think it was possible, but maybe I underestimated this. This certainly is one way expedite the conclusion of the nomination race.
April 3, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
i hate using this term, but could it be the "inevitibility" of obama is setting in on the voters?
April 3, 2008 4:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
BEWARE all polls showing Obama ahead in PA, especially now. It's a set-up, so Hillary can twist her vanishing 20 point lead into yet another 3 point "comeback."
April 3, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad Obama's doing so well, and am excited that maybe he'll do spectacularly well! But I find the demographics obsession increasingly creepy.
April 3, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
From Insider Advantage's press release touting this poll:
It is almost impossible to imagine that the African-American vote will not consolidate to the levels we have seen in other states, which would put Obama closer to 70%-plus with blacks. Clinton would need a large, disproportionate turnout of white voters to have a real shot at pulling off a substantial win in the contest.
Insider Advantage has only a so-so record this season, so I am not prepared to get my hopes up too much based on this poll (especially if SUSA is still showing her with a 12 pt lead), but I still thought that this particular detail was worth highlighting.
April 3, 2008 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Two points:
1) Sorry for the double post. Something wacky happened when I hit "send."
2) I must have closed the blockquote in the wrong place. The paragraph that starts "It is almost impossible to imagine..." should also be in the blockquote. Those are Towery's words, not my own.
April 3, 2008 4:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
From Insider Advantage's press release touting this poll:
It is almost impossible to imagine that the African-American vote will not consolidate to the levels we have seen in other states, which would put Obama closer to 70%-plus with blacks. Clinton would need a large, disproportionate turnout of white voters to have a real shot at pulling off a substantial win in the contest.
Insider Advantage has only a so-so record this season, so I am not prepared to get my hopes up too much based on this poll (especially if SUSA is still showing her with a 12 pt lead), but I still thought that this particular detail was worth highlighting.
April 3, 2008 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't trust InsiderAdvantage at all.
The guy who runs it, Matt Towery, is a maxed out donor to Hillary Clinton's campaign.
And his polls have always seemed to benefit her in initially lowering expectation before showing a last minute surge in her direction. I would expect the same trend to show up this time.
April 3, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's kinda funny because when I read his quote about how it would take a "near miracle for her to win" I just about fell off my chair. I thought the guys a Clinton plant. As I said in a different thread, a close victory for Clinton in PA cannot be allowed to spun as a comeback or anything less than what it truly would be - which is a huge upset by Obama in a state that he is seriously, seriously disadvantaged.
Say it with me, she has to win by 15% to MEET expectations.
April 3, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
There appears to be a reverse-Bradley effect in the AA surveying.
April 3, 2008 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is better than I thought... only 56-29 with black voters?? No way that holds on election day.
April 3, 2008 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Insider Advantage? Nope. I'm not biting.
April 3, 2008 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed.
April 3, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Doesn't matter unless it's SurveyUSA...
(Just thought I'd preempt gotalife).
April 3, 2008 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you really should start reporting the undecided number. In this case, it's significant: 12%.
April 3, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I told you not to count the PPP poll out.
April 3, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
So much for PPP being an "outlier."
Can I say "Told you so"?
April 3, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
LuxVeritas beat me to it, LOL
April 3, 2008 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Remember how we used to get all the demographic breakdowns--age, education, urban/rural, etc.? Now it's just sex and race. The race seems to be about little else anymore, and I think it's telling that Josh has spent so much time writing about it the past couple of days.
I find it sad. I had once hoped that we had moved beyond such matters.
April 3, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. Those damn exit polls divide the American Voters on the basis of their racial identity, and are a form of Virtual Apartheid that continues to feed into the old separation of the races mentality.
One person one vote. Racial profiling in exit polling is a violation of that bedrock principle.
Josh Marshall has been obsessing on the topic. I wish he would explain why a black vote is any different that this old white Irishman's vote, or his Jewish American vote. TPM should be ashamed of itself for continuing to sow the seeds of racial discord.
African Americans are equal Americans to Euro Americans.
Exit Polls and the Josh Marshalls of the world are all to eager to perpetuate a form of Virtual Voter Segregation.
April 3, 2008 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yikes.
I am an Obamanite but I am a little (a lot) surprised at how fast the HRC lead is shrinking considering she was almost 20pts up 2 weeks ago.
I saw one quote from a PA voter that said he had been an HRC supporter but now that he is getting to know BHO, he is surprised how much he likes him.
Looks like the campaigning and the HRC is toast news coverage is helping.
April 3, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh Snap. Or to paraphrase idiotic
THIS IS INCREDIBLY BAD NEWS!!! FOR HILLARY!!!!
April 3, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
i have a feeling that the results from pennsylvania might surprise people.
I'm not calling for an obama win, but i think it just might be close enough to make hillary sweat.
April 3, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
He'll win an insurmountable popular vote, then John Corzine and John Murtha will flip...and more and more. Hillary's already lost and she's still losing.
April 3, 2008 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pretty similar undecided figures, compared to PPP's similar poll yesterday. Obama needs to open up 5+ point margin in PA, or generate some new momentum in the news cycle just prior to 4/22 if he hopes to overcome Hillary's established support with late deciders.
Hillary has been running as the incumbent candidate all along, and is the default choice for most democrats. Without clear strength in the days before voting, those late deciders will hand any close election to Clinton.
April 3, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please turn on comments on new link upstairs about role of popular vote in deciding nomination.
April 3, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have no idea whether this poll and PPP are right or not, and, with nearly three weeks to go, it doesn't matter. But I think we know this with near-certainty: If polling continues to show the race tightening, Hillary won't be throwing the kitchen sink at Obama -- she'll be throwing shit and far more of it than they've yet hurled.
April 3, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama needs to get back to PA, do another bus tour, and definitely has to eat the chocolate and a few philly cheese steaks. That will put him over the edge . . . but no hesitation on the hoagies on it's all over.
April 3, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, and don't ask for Swiss on your cheesesteak.
April 3, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg,
Apologies if I missed it, but Speaker Pelosi's volunteered, stern reminder this morning that superdelegates should NOT overturn the will of the people is newsworthy, IMO. She said not overturning the will of the voters is part of the "discretion" that superdels are empowered to exercise, and is consistent with hers and others' comments that they should exercise "discretion." IOW, discretion=don't overturn popular will.
Could that be part of the genesis of those new remarks from the Clinton campaign in your new link upstairs?
April 3, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
to back up my claims with some numbers:
Insider Advantage
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/33_InsiderAdvantage_Majority_Opinion_PA_Dem_Poll_(4-3-2008).pdf
Undecided 12.3
C-45 O-43
PPP
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Penn_Release_040208.pdf
Undecided 13%
C-43 O-45
SUSA (4/1)
http://www.nbc10.com/news/15759420/detail.html
Undecided 2%
C-53 O-41
April 3, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see what you're saying, but I don't 100 percent agree.
The University of Cincinnati's OhioPoll had something like 9 percent undecideds, and still predicted the outcome of the margin of victory for Clinton within one percentage point. I do think we need to be on the lookout for the late breakers, though. We'll see how the news treats both candidates.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Obama's holding back some key endorsements to speak up just before the primary, while Hillary's got another "3 a.m." style ad to run the weekend before the primary.
Time will tell. I'm still waiting for something big to come down. A Carter endorsement could do wonders.
April 3, 2008 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I concur with Greg D, as usual. I'm ignoring this poll and PP as they have generally been unreliable. Once we start seeing slippage in SUSA, then count me as a Penna. believer.
The demographics on this poll are just too whack to allow for a credible impression.
April 3, 2008 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
The less significant play polls like this get, the better I'll feel. I prefer to remain lean and hungry while Clinton supporters feel that PA is sewn up for their guy.
Not to mention, I mean Insider Advantage? Really?
It's closing, but I'm not sold on it being this close yet.
April 3, 2008 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's a 12 point undecided in this poll, similar to PPP. I wonder if SurveyUSA's forcing (encouraging) voters to decide candidates accounts for Clinton's big lead in SurveyUSA.
These are the voters Obama needs to get, the low lying fruit --. those who are vaguely undecided but leaning to Clinton. Madison Avenue says it's feasible; Obama is outspending Clinton in ads by a big margin.
April 3, 2008 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
from pollster.com
(Note, this document says 45.3 to 42.4 and this document says 45 to 43.)
how can you round up 0.4 to 1.
there is something wrong with the poll.
when was the last time Hillary got 26% of the black vote anywhere.
this is not Kosher.
and by the way " Clinton Delenda est"
April 3, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really like the internals in this poll...Much less black white division and man woman divisions! I want this party/country to be united!
April 3, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Any Penn. poll that doesn't show regional divide is suspect. The poll will skew one way or another depending on the location of the state. On recent polls, only Survey USA poll seemed to have done that.
Also, this poll shows 53% women share, but we know from other states this number is normally bit higher than that. women share generally reach more than 55%, there is no reason to doubt, that will not happen in Penn. In Ohio, it was 59%, in Texas it was 57%.
April 3, 2008 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Hillary has been running as the incumbent candidate all along, and is the default choice for most democrats. Without clear strength in the days before voting, those late deciders will hand any close election to Clinton."
I think this is right. Clinton gets the late deciders and fence sitters.
It takes some courage to choose change.
But it still could be awfully close.
April 3, 2008 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
The number of undecideds is a key data point, but also look at Clinton's raw numbers. She's gone from the low 50s to the high to mid-40s. What this suggests is that a chunk of people who previously were in her corner are now calling themselves undecided.
It's quite possible they'll move back to her on Election Day. But most pollsters will tell you that voters rarely move from Candidate A to Candidate B; the natural progression is from Candidate A to undecided to Candidate B. So while I wouldn't throw any celebrations yet if I'm Obama, I'd be plenty worried if I were Clinton.
April 3, 2008 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
All i am saying about this poll is REMEMBER NEW HAMPSHIRE?
April 3, 2008 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wouldn't trust ANY poll. Obama camp must keep working harder and only use polls to add to the momentum, not to be reassured and thus get lazy.
Cause then voters get lazy if the media acts like its all wrapped up, which the media may start to do, Oh it's in the bag- so that then if and when there is an upset on election day they can get ratings and talk about what a big surprise it is.
Making sure people are 100% for Obama is what is important, getting those undecideds. Then, getting those people to the polls is top priority!
Lots of work ahead, lots of time left still.
April 3, 2008 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exit Polls and the Josh Marshalls of the world are all to eager to perpetuate a form of Virtual Voter Segregation.
No - it changes the way Democrats look at elections - finally.
This is how we break through the Southern Strategy that has kept us losing election after election.
It is partly about people voting who usually don't. I agree race is made too much of - there is youth there, and it leaves out us progressives.
Still - this matters because this is our key to building a different voting coalition and strengthening part of our society that needs it and it will keep people voting I think. I hope.
April 3, 2008 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Beware of the fast-closing Obama polls. We've been burned way too many times already. Remember NH, CA, MA, OH, TX? Clinton originally had huge leads (20% or more) and days or weeks before it fell to tied or Obama up a few points. I am still convinced if Obama loses by less than 10%, he should consider it a moral victory. I'd hate for all the press to "think" Obama might win PA and then Clinton wins by 5% and calls it a big comeback.
April 3, 2008 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking as a former PA resident the Quinnipiac polls with a 9 point HRC lead
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x2882.xml?ReleaseID=1164
seem a lot closer to reality; Pollster has a writeup on some of the internals.
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/update_pa_by_race_and_educatio.php
I'll be delighted if Obama beats the 10.5% point spread.
April 3, 2008 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't trust these polls. The southern tier of New York bleeds in PA. Clinton should own this state. Again, a 15% victory by her means Obama has weathered a storm. 10% would be fantastic. Let's be realistic. Senator Clinton -- with her demographic appeal -- should win PA 60-40,
April 3, 2008 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
From someone who knows the terrain.
Senator Bob Casey told Ed. Schultz, today, that he could not predict a win for Senator Obama. He said it is a very uphill struggle to overcome having both Bill and Hillary having spent a lot of time in Pennsylvania for more than fifteen years.
He sees it as a good opportunity for Senator Obama to introduce himself to the people of the state, but does not expect that he will be able to spend enough time there to overtake the vast amount of time that both Clintons have spent in the state over the course of many years.
Senator Casey concluded that he views it as a Obama laying the groundwork now, for the November contest against John McCain.
That has been how I have always viewed it too.
Do not let the polls distort your perspective on the race. Hillary is the prohibitive favorite to carry Pennsylvania by a very large margin.
She must sustain that huge margin, or once again she will be exposed as some one who usually surrenders huge leads in the stretch runs. That is not the type of candidate you want coming down the stretch at the end of October. Hillary has gone all wobbly in almost every stretch run where she started out with huge leads.
Let us see if she can sustain a huge lead this time. If not, then she is not capable of winning in November.
April 3, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary began up by nearly 20%. If she does not win by more than 15% I don't see how she can make a case for her candidacy.
April 3, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. It's not enough for Hillary to win, she must win a "significant amount."
And those are Hillary supporter Corzine's words, not mine!
April 3, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Easy folks,we've won nothing until B.O.'s sworn-in as POTUS. Time to double-down on volunteerism and donations. Go to Barack's website to find a volunteer event near you, or throw some cash to the campaign. If your state has yet to vote, make sure you bring someone with you to the polls.We've won nothing until President Obama is sworn in.
April 3, 2008 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Strategic Vision just released a poll with Clinton up 8pts. It is a few days old though - 3/28-3/30 and the last SV poll had Clinton up 18pts (56-38 3/7-3/9) so at worst he has shaved off 10 points in a few weeks and appears to be at least be within 10pts which is really what is key. Anything he can do to improve on that is a bonus.
April 3, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do not believe these polls.
Each time they claim that Obama is closing in on Hill she seems to always pull it out. In fact, their seems to be a distinct pattern. Whenever,Obama closes her 20 point leads down to single digits..she hits with a really negative ad late that Fri...and by Tues she is up in the polls and wins.
Recall, she hit with the pro-life lies in NH, then she hit with the 3AM ad in TX and the NAFTA lies in OH and now she is having the endlessly Wright controversy.
So, I expect something new on Wright.
What I do not understand is how Axelrod has not figured this out. Obama's campaign needs to be ready with a hard hitting ad on Hillary in the last 48 hours before the vote.
PA seems a good place to hit hard on her NAFTA lies and Bosnia lies.
I expect Obama to lose PA.
April 3, 2008 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!
April 3, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
GAME ON
April 3, 2008 10:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a former Penn resident, this doesn't really surprise me. Generally speaking, the more time Obama spends in a certain place, the more a majority of the people there come to like him.
Look at the state of Iowa, that is practically in love with Barack and can't stand Hillary. The people of Iowa have a love affair with Barack whereas Hillary's people left the state and insulted them by comparing the caucus with a mayor's race. In the general, Obama wins Iowa because he was very polite and friendly with the people there and they liked the way he acted in their state. When Hillary started with the madrassa and and drug dealer BS, they turned against her.
April 3, 2008 11:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is dropping like a stone!
That CBS/Ny poll shows McCain has closed the 50 to 38 gap advantage Obama once held in a national matchup with McCain & now they are virtually tied whereas Hillary is beating McCain by 5 points!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/04/us/politics/04campaign.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&ref=politics&adxnnlx=1207311489-X5n3QgblpBFjgsuRgbKLtw&oref=slogin
She can win National election. Obama can't.
He has peaked and now will continue to decline now that the world is seeing what an inexperience ambitious wannabe & fraud he is. And now that America has seen the contempt he and his family and friends hold for America.
What goes up, must come down. Hillary holds steady!
Right on Hillary. You're our girl!
April 4, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink