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Obama Outspending Hillary Almost 3-1 On Pennsylvania Ads

The latest advertising numbers are in from Pennsylvania, and they show just how much Barack Obama has been using his fundraising advantage — Obama has spent $3.6 million on television ads in the key primary state, compared to only $1.3 million from Clinton.

Hillary needs an overwhelming win in this state in order to make a dent in Obama's delegate margin, and it obviously can't help her that she's being outspent by nearly 3-1 on TV.


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Well, yeah. Obama has more donors, more support, and more organizational strength than she does, and she's complaining about that? It just shows the mismanagement of her campaign. Why don't you delve into that, Eric?

Obama has more donors, more support, and more organizational strength than she does, and she's complaining about that?

I haven't heard any complaining per se, but I have seen this factoid used as a criterion for raising expectations on Obama vis a vis the super delegates: "surely someone spending so much money should be able to win by double digits! Anything less than that is a sign of unelectability!" (pretty much what Rendell said on Sunday)

And why's she losing to a young upstart that came out of nowhere? Shouldn't fundraising be a sign of party support behind that candidate?

Good. There is an information gap, the Clintons have been known for almost 2 decades. Do people expect Obama to overcome that information gap by spending less than her?

I don't like the implication that this is somehow an unfair advantage for Obama, which is what the Clinton campaign is already whining about, and if they lose or if Obama comes in close, they will use this as a scapegoat, totally ignoring the fact that they had every advantage going into the race.

I wonder why none of the media ever steps back and recognize that, at a minimum, the disparity in spending is a function (and directly correlated) to fundraising prowess and funds on hand. In short, Clinton CAN'T spend that kind of money.

At least you touch on it. Thanks for the good work Eric.

It is a nice touch, I agree.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/106360/Obama-Dominates-Clinton-Among-College-Graduates.aspx
Gallup did a poll nationally on what education groups support who in the democratic party.

It reflects exit polls mainly.

Conversely, Obama out-raising Hillary 3 to 1.

Or, Hillary spent the whole war chest on Iowa banquets and Penn.

Depends on how you look at it.

--Within ten in Penn. That's what matters. Will cost a lot to get there though. Because it's Hillary country in them thar hills.

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When you have to show people who you are because you haven't been in Politics for 35 years like Hillary Clinton has, you have to SPEND more.

This story is a COVER for when Hillary Loses Pennsylvania or comes VERY CLOSE to losing it.

Yep. This is all about cover.

That's why we have to remind everyone, all the time, Obama only needs to be competitive. Eric correctly points it out in the post.

The message got away in Texas and Ohio. Let's not let it happen twice.

Competitive in Penn. It's a tall enough order right there, no need to dream bigger.

What is occuring is that Obama has doubled-down and then some in Pennsylvania, maybe even betting the house. Is he hoping to buy a knock-out win in the upcoming primary? If he can win with 3+ times spending advantage then he might claim victory but what happens if he cannot buy the election or close the deal and loses the primary?
I seriously doubt Obama can win Pennsylvania any more than he could win any of the other closed primary, big states that are traditional Democratic states. If he should lose even with the overwhelming spending spree and with the adoring media attention, I suggest that he should graciously see the writing on the wall regarding his electability.

Matthew
http://www.TheIndependentView.com

Matthew:

I agree that Obama's spending edge should raise expectations for his performance, but I have to question some of your other premises.

John McCain has committed to publicly financing his campaign, returning millions in donations he'd already collected for the general. That caps his spending at $82 million. Given that Obama has already raised three times that sum for the primary, isn't it perfectly plausible that - should he opt out of public financing - he will indeed enjoy a similar edge in the general?

You attack Obama for his inability to win closed primary states - and use that to question his viability in the general election. I don't get it. If Obama performs better in open primaries, and Clinton better when independents and Republicans are excluded, doesn't that suggest that Obama is the stronger general election candidate, able to expand the party's base?

And do you really believe that losing a single state - Pennsylvania - should drive out of the race the candidate who has won the most votes, the most states, and the most delegates? Curious logic there.

Obama has previously commited to public financing and the flip-flop to skip it will come back to haunt him. While he still has time to reconsider, he should. Unless, as he notes elsewhere on another topic, these where just words, convenient at the time.

Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com

Winning or losing states in the primary has zero bearing on winning or losing states in the general.

er...this comment wasn't supposed to appear here.

Matthew: Could you lose the avitar, it is so offensive, and it makes me not want to even read what you write, which is defeating the whole purpose of blogging. Just a suggestion.

Also, your website is a hot mess.

Bring back the Michael MacDonald avatar! I love the Doobie Brothers!

That's why i donated to him. $650 and counting. And I have never donated to any politician before.

Glad to see my moeny is being well spent.

After every primary that Hillary doesnt quit, I'm donating again in $200 chunks.

I'm in the same category: I donate weekly.

My philosophy on spending is, "If you got it, spend it. Money is like breath: if you don't let it out, it's not doing you any good."

Wasting your money and will lose by 20 points.

ACLU and charities would be better spent.

Did you learn English from comic books? Geez, get yourself Elements of Style by William Strunk! I guarantee you'll thank me.

If this was meant to be a haiku, you failed miserably.

Personal pronouns and indefinite articles are your friends. Don't fear them!

FlyOnTheWall,

Regarding Obama's wins in open primary states, most of these are states with minimal Democratic voters and in many cases no history of voting for a Democratic candidate in the general election. These are false victories for Obama as no one suggests he has any real chance of winning in states like Idaho, Montana, and so forth.

Not being able to win in the bigger states that Democrats typically can win is more important and telling. If he can buy a victory in Pennsylvania, great, but can he do so in these other big states that he has already lost? Are you willing to push a $1B campaign in the fall to buy his election?

Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com

These are false victories for Obama as no one suggests he has any real chance of winning in states like Idaho, Montana, and so forth.

Clearly someone had to win these states in the primary -- how could they be "false victories"? If Clinton had won these states (and why didn't she?), would they be equally as false due to the general election history?

Not being able to win in the bigger states that Democrats typically can win is more important and telling. If he can buy a victory in Pennsylvania, great, but can he do so in these other big states that he has already lost? Are you willing to push a $1B campaign in the fall to buy his election?

I would think that not winning the popular vote is more telling since those big states are reliably Democratic come November. And, even though you didn't ask me, yes I plan to donate to Obama if he's the nominee. I can't say the same about Clinton.

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You clearly don't get it (and by now, you should!). Any state won by Hillary is an incontrovertible proof that she is the only one with a chance in November. Any state won by Obama just means that the state is insignificant, one that Dems can't win, and generally just an incontrovertible proof that Obama is a loser who has no chance whatsoever in November. The logic is impeccable!

I keep forgetting: is today a "logic optional" day?

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When you're a Hillary supporter these days, logic isn't optional. It is forbidden.

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Made me laugh!!!
I just got off the phone with a Hillary supporter, and that very illogic was unbelievably thick.
Like with Weaver, what is offered as fact is just personal and slanted 'interpretation' followed by an invitation to 'argue' that person's interpretation. I just kept saying, 'Hey, there's no arguing your 'interpretation'..... can we talk about facts?

Short answer: Yes.

It's important to realize Obama's larger goal of politics in America. He realizes that we need a united majority in order to get anything done. The past 20 years or so have been so full of partisan hatred, that not even Hillary Clinton could pass health care.

So, yes, we need to make in-roads into red states if the Democratic party is going to have any success in pushing it's agenda. The 50 + 1 strategy might work in getting Hillary elected, but she won't be able to do anything once she gets in power (and who knows? Maybe she'll lose the Congress again in the process).

(BTW, are you saying Obama won't win CA or NY?)

Yes, Obama might win New York, it'd be close, but I'm not sure he could win Pennsylvania in the general election. Both would depend on who he chose as runningmate and how he addressed his poor standing against McCain. McCain as war hero will be hard for Obama to beat in places like Texas and Pennsylvania.

Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com

Yes, Obama might win New York, it'd be close...

Yes, I can see based on the State's electoral history why you would make that argument. Fascinating and incisive.

By the way, can you tell me which page of the Big Butt Book of facts you pulled the material to reach your sound and truly unimpeachable conclusion about which way New York will go? I just want to jot it down.

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Do these clowns even realize that the rules for primaries are not the same as the rules for the general election?

If Hillary can't win the Dem primary while observing the Dem primary rules, what does that say about her electability, eh?

Are you aware of the argument that primary performance is no indication of how well you'll run in a general election? Or do you put your fingers in your ears and hum when that one comes up?

There are some very important states in the "open-primary" category. Missouri, for instance, was an open primary and is considered a bellwether for the general election. And Obama won there. Virginia was an open primary, and Obama won in VA by a huge margin despite that Clinton's campaign is headquartered there. Vermont was an open primary, and is a solid blue state. Indiana will be an open primary -- care to belittle it in advance?

Beyond these examples of important open primaries, there are other states that Obama has won which are "purple" states where independent voters could decide the election in November. These include Washington state and Colorado, and yes, even the Dakotas, where voters have been electing Democratic party Senators in recent elections.

Both candidates have won some solid "blue" states, and some solid "red" states, and some "purple" states. Supporters of one candidate trying to say that the other candidate has won only insignificant states is so much hogwash. It's the most obvious form of sour grapes. No different from how the Clinton camp tried to act simultaneously outraged and indifferent to Bill Richardson's endorsement of Obama.

The most ridiculous of all of these arguments is the "big state" argument, wherein Clinton supporters try to point to her wins in California and New York as really important, as if to scare other Democrats into believing that without Clinton on the ticket, these most solid of the Democratic states would be in danger of flipping Republican in the general election. How absurd.

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Regarding Obama's wins in open primary states, most of these are states with minimal Democratic voters and in many cases no history of voting for a Democratic candidate in the general election. These are false victories for Obama as no one suggests he has any real chance of winning in states like Idaho, Montana, and so forth.

You are an idiot.

Plain and simple. The entire south was Democratic for decades. The only reason we've been hanging down here getting poorer with the Religious Right running all over us and the repugs stealing everything that isn't nailed down is because we were abandoned and left for dead by the Clintons and the party under the Clintons. Now we're electing Democrats again - since Howard Dean started running the DNC. But if the Clintons get back in power - which isn't possible - but if they did, we'd go right back to being held in the iron grip of the southern strategy.

You are totally ignorant about politics in this country, you really are. You don't understand a thing about what's going on. Not one thing and you bend all circumstances to fit your idea of what's going on and it's totally distorted.

Much better avatar!

Yikes! gotalife and Weaver tag-teaming....Troll Critic, HELP!

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gotalife - you completely destroyed any chance that I would ever believe again that you really support the ACLU when you dragged LittleGreenFootballs into the discussion last night.

Squeaky is the most racist, violent, hateful blogger on the planet next to Misha, the Rotteweiler. Citing LGF - which Squeaky and his minions refer to privately as LittleGookFuckers - to support anything is proof positive that if you aren't a Repug troll, we don't need one - we have you.

oh, Maureen Dowd, a dumb bunny but she makes one good observation

"Condi is too busy floating trial balloons about being John McCain’s running mate to bother about the fact that she was instrumental in two historic blunders: 9/11 and Iraq."


Rice really is a good example of what affirmative action creates. Hacks who are not especially competent, but whom we must tolerate and promote in the service of a ridiculous idea, that we must at all costs have black people in prominent positions, even if they cannot handle the job. as NSA Rice was more thananyone mandated with preventing 9-11. Oh well, 3000 dead people so we can have a prominent black person in government is a good bargain, I guess.

W is incompetent, and America finally realized that that is A BAD THING. But now you are going to elect Obama. Man oh man will I laugh my ass off for another 8 years.


Rice is not an example of affirmative action.

Rice is an example of cronyism.

But you make a good point: we should judge the candidates by their staff, and Obama by far has the best staff.

The other two candidates have lobbyists who are working from the campaign bus!

And comparing Obama to Bush is really, really stupid. The only person that should be compared to Bush is McCain.

I know you're a troll and I really shouldn't talk to you (that's what my Mom says), BUT:

Condi Rice is a brilliant woman who got to where she is by dint of her intellect. While I think her values are totally fucked up, and her inability to downshift from her Cold War mindset is her Achilles heel, she earned her degrees and is someone I could respect if she ever "came to Jesus."

Aside from my mom: The fact that you view any accomplished African American as a product of affirmative action reveals your unweaning devotion to an atavistic racist worldview. Until you can let go of your prejudices, you'll never be worth the time and effort of conversation.

blockquote>Rice really is a good example of what affirmative action creates.

And what creates malice riddled freaks like you?

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Obama is wasting his money.

Clinton is polling so well in Pennsylvania for the same reason Pennsylvanians sent pRick Santorum to the state in the first place.

McCain-Clinton '08

Keeping fascist plutocracy safe from Americans worldwide!

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O go back to LittleGookFuckers.

Anti-affirmative action statements like that belong on LGF.

well, I see no evidence that Obama is all that smart either. actually, I have yet to encounter a single smart African-American, although I have met plenty of Ivy educated blacks. Eh, most Americans are pretty stupid, but AAs are really the bottom of the barrel.

Troll Critic, where are you?
You got some work to do now!

(adapted from the Scooby Doo theme song)

Why don't you take your trash talk elsewhere? Your offer no contribution to any discussion occuring here.

Matthew
http://www.TheIndependentView.com

Matthew Weaver troll-rating a troll put a funny little Escher picture in my mind. That's, like, a mental mobius strip or something.

Matthew Weaver troll-rating a troll put a funny little Escher picture in my mind. That's, like, a mental mobius strip or something.

#8 to play the race card.

You have unity with Obama supporters on this.

Have you picked up any more children, child molesting pervert?

They will lock you up and you will get what you deserve in prison.

That's entirely uncalled for gotalife.

As you can see, both Clinton and Obama supporters are dutifully offended by milob.

Stop trying to stir the pot and conflate this lunatic with a particular group of supporters.

He's a freeper troll and doesn't respect what Senators Clinton nor Obama represent.

You would be well served by understanding who the REAL adversary is....

It's not Obama or his supporters. Should he win, you will get legislation and administration that is 75 - 95% identical to Sen. Clinton.

Conversely, if Clinton wins, we will get an Administration that is 75 - 95% identical to the way that Obama strives to lead.

If milob and the GOP gets McWarmonger elected by getting us to continue to attack one another, we'll be stuck with an Administration that has NOTHING in common with the direction we'd like to see America go.

For the love of God, stop blindly attacking Obama supporters in the face of the REAL opposition.

We can agree to disagree about the Democratic nominee, but for shit's sake, do either of us want McCain?!?!

Milob doesn't represent our views. Got it???

and Rice IS a dumb bunny. A few years ago Ole Russia Hand Condi was on Echo Moskvi radio, and tried speaking Russian and could not even pit out a full sentence. This from a PhD in Soviet scholarship. And if you read any of her so called scholarship you would see what hacks affirmative action produces. Oh but you folkds are too ignorant to tell the difference....

And if you read any of her so called scholarship you would see what hacks affirmative action produces.

We've been reading your hactacular trash talk for some time. What are you a product of?

Fly on the Wall is a respected election analyst, like Poblano on Daily Kos. Fly extends respect to mega-trolls like Matthew Weaver (and goatlife sticks his upper appendage in). And what does Fly get back?
Anything but respect.

What will these people do when Obama wins the nomination? Will they switch to McCain, in defiance of their own claims to be Dems? All I know is that despite the best efforts of some very funny people (like Troll Critic or Genghis), they don't respond in any normal conversational way, and their grammar and syntax reveal them as poorly educated. They seem incapable of proofreading their own posts.

They get attention because of the physical nature of comment threads. If they were at a cocktail party they would simply get pushed against the wall.

I still have some residual curiosity about these trolls. Are they posting on lots of blogs? Is that why they don't correct their grammar and spelling mistakes? Are they getting paid? Is that why they repeat the same slanders and GOP talking points over and over and over and over?

I used to have a landlady who was crazy. She liked to get me on the phone and accuse me of lying to her and stealing from her. What she really liked was having someone to talk to. But I got tired of her behavior, and so one time I set her up so that there was a third person, someone she knew, on the same line. She went completely ballistic because her complaining shtick could only be sustained as long as there was no reality check - no third person in the conversation, no other voice to say, what you're saying is impossible, or simply abusive.

In some ways the trolls reveal the artificial nature of comment threads as something that could be better, and this should be considered sometime. But the more I look at it (and I'm about done looking at it) the more obvious it is that they are here for one reason alone, and that is to make our conversation more difficult. They are really classic trolls, in the sense of the word that comes from "trolling" and not just from the name of an ugly humanoid beast that says Fee-fi-fo-fum. They are trying to distract people that are having a conversation.

They don't really think what they say they think. They don't really think at all. I see normal people in these threads trying to talk to them in a well-intentioned way. But it doesn't work. THis kind of outreach is less common on Daily Kos, for example, and I have theorized that it's the avatars that provide a minimum degree of humanization, and that leads people to reach out to the trolls. But then look at what they do with their avatars. Gotalife switched over from Scalia telling us to get fucked in the ass, to Obama and Wright (which we must not be allowed to forget). Matthew Weaver has a no-Obama photo (perhaps in response to someone's no-Matthew Weaver photo.

The funny-troll movement has been worthwhile, and it could go on if the trolls would cooperate! But as teh funny winds down, maybe it would be better to boycott the trolls. Pretend they aren't there.

Giants say "fee, fie, foe, fum." Trolls say, "Who's that walking on my bridge." Other than that, I agree completely.

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Rice has always been in over her head - but that's not exactly her fault - it's George's fault for hiring her. Remember Harriet? When did George ever hire anyone who was competent?

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Truth hurts, don't it Weaver? gotalife?


You've been hanging around here pretending to be something you aren't forever, from what I can tell. I know the type - your type is a permanent fixture on every liberal blog out there. Your name is: Toby, America's Memory, annieshoelimpy, and every single other troll handle I can remember.


I'm not sure what you are talking about. Obviously you are caught up in your own little anonymous world. I write what I believe, I make a sincere effort to keep to factual points, I definitely prefer civil conversation without unnecessary name calling and insults, and I use my own name. Few of the writers here and on many blogs have enough character to do the same.

Matthew
http://www.TheIndependentView.com

I have no doubt you write what you believe. Few people waste their time doing otherwise.

Ads are effective. That's good news for Obama in Pennsylvania. But swift boat ads are effective as well. Bad news for Obama in the Fall.

Spot on Schmedley.

Although this would indicate that there is some overlap between trolls and giants: http://www.fremontseattle.com/myths/trolledit.htm

Clinton supporters have taken over this blog.

Resistance is futile, you are trolls like Milo now since you play the race card like him.

Obama supporters are the trolls.

We didn't take it over. All the Hillaroids just kind of drifted away after Super Tuesday. They used to outnumber us (barely) here.

Never really knew why they left, but I suspect it has something to do with their near-continuous predictions of crushing, overwhelming victory (often supported by lenghy polling analysis).

I like to think a few changed their handles and became Obama supporters. It's the sentimentalist in me. I hate to think of them spending their free time moving imaginary armies of voters around on map of imaginary states down in the bunkers at MyDD.com, Taylormarsh.com and Hillis44.org.

I'm glad he is. Otherwise she'd be killing him there. It's a demographic nightmare in PA for Obama -- the most anti-Obama demographics imaginable.

Like Ohio on stereoids is what I've heard.

Luckily, his big donor base is keeping it close there. I hope he loses by single digits.


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I'm not sure what you are talking about. Obviously you are caught up in your own little anonymous world.

yeah I'm so anonymous I've always used my real name online, like a fool.

It has gotten me plenty of hateful email - but I am not big on secrets. I don't like having something hidden that someone can find and use against me.

I'm completely WYSIWYG. Always have been.

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He's closed the gap in Pa in just two weeks. Wasn't she 20 up just two weeks ago? Now it's 5.

That's stunning, really.

Matthew Weaver has a point. He does have his own blog. His positions on a number of issues is stated there (although these could change).

For example, he appears to be a committed anti-Semite who challenges Israel's right to be a member of the "community of nations". He's not a Holocaust denier; he's a Holocaust minimizer, though. Just visit his site, TheIndependentView.com and click on "personal views". (I don't think you're going to crash his server.)

You know, we really don't get into issues much here anymore...of course if some significant debate arises, we will be all over it...but in the meantime, I suggest we debate this: Resolved: Matthew Weaver, as a self-confessed anti-Semite and Holocaust minimizer, has taken a position that would make even HRC gag. As such, he should be banned from this site.

Let's kick one of them off the island.

Hey, guess what? Matthew Weaver isn't a full-dress homophobe; he's willing to go as far as George Bush in terms of civil unions. But he thinks that marriage is something that involves a man and a woman only (and maybe a ferret).

Here is a direct question, not for Matthew Weaver, but for HRC her own self: Dear Hillary, will you now reject and denounce the support of Matthew Weaver, who on his blog has incorporated your public statements (on video) as HIS OWN PERSONAL VIEWS, in view of the fact that he holds positions you supposedly disagree with as regards Israel and gay rights?

Matthew Weaver is your biggest supporter on one of the leading Democratic blogs. If the past years are any clue, he's on his way to becoming a major opinion leader in the Democratic Party (hawk...gag...snort). It would hardly be credible if your campaign professed ignorance of Weaver's activities.

Is Weaver a contributor? More to the point, have you employed or paid Weaver in any capacity, ever? What is his status with regard to your campaign? What e-mail and conference-call lists is he on?

This is not an Obama issue; it's just part of the vetting of the candidate, should she win the nomination. Surely, Hillary, you realize that the Republicans will not hesitate to use the Matthew Weaver issue against you in the fall.

If Hillary is being outspent by her opponent, her best remedy, in my opinion, would be to raise more money.

Next...

TPM, PLEASE POST THE STORY HEADLINED ABOVE THIS ONE.

So I am confused. We just saw yesterday 5 new TV ads (pretty good ones I must say) for Hillary. Is she running them, and how widely? Are those new ads included in the figures we are seeing for her media buy? Just curious.

Anyway, Leroy has it right--the solution for being outspent by your opponent is to raise more money.

in idiotic's absence

THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS FOR HILLARY!!!!


Get your t-shirts here....

http://www.zazzle.com/tre2k3/product/235456910823818404

obambam,

Your comments are offensive and ignorant. You obviously are not reading, nor appreciating what I have written on my blog. Maybe for you anyone that doesn't toe your exact view on Obama and the world has to be racist, anti-Semetic, or a homophobe. This is beyond arrogant on your part. My views are clear, they are not racist, not anti-Semetic, not homophobic, and not pro-Obama.

If you've read my posts at TPM and elsewhere, you'll see that I frequently criticize those who use offensive insults, inappropriate language, and labels. (For example, see my post at 10:38 to Milo B).

BTW, at least I have the self-respect, confidence, and maturity to use my own name in my comments. Who are you, hiding behind 'obambam'. Are you ashamed of your views or are they false and you don't want to be exposed?

Matthew
http://www.TheIndependentView.com

My views are clear, they are not racist, not anti-Semetic, not homophobic, and not pro-Obama.

I realize I'm interrupting your "conversation," but I would like to interject for a moment. I took a little stroll over to your website and did my own survey. On one particular point I find myself somewhat in agreement with Obamabam: if you aren't a racist (and that isn't at all clear to me), then you have an oversimplified, unnuanced grasp of racism that would enable a racist to thrive. You say that you find any race based organization or group offensive. Does this include any organization or group that seeks to redress the wrongs of those who suffer from racism, particularly those organizations made up of individuals from that racial group (think NAACP, CORE, La Raza, etc.)? For example, do you find HBC's offensive?

I've got other questions, but I suspect that you'd rather not answer them. So, let's just say that your objections to Obambam's characterization strike me as the protestations of a kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar: not very convincing.

Schmedley,

Yes, I do see any race-based organization as offensive and by their existence promoting continued race-identification and racism. Look, either we are or are not 'post-racial'. I am not sure who coined the term, when, and where, but it is as good as any to use. I was raised in a generation, much as is true of just about everyone except our oldest citizens, where we were taught that basing anything on race was wrong. We accepted the need for affirmative action to right wrongs but at some point we've got to say, fine, we are now at a point where we can truly begin to treat everyone equal without regard to the color of their skin. In this case, we become post-racial and we simply treat any remaining racism as exception, rather than as the norm. (As I've written elsewhere, affirmative action has a continued role if based on economics instead of race. Otherwise, do we rewrite it to say that any relative minority should be recipient of affirmative action? Thus, in DC, a Black majority city, should affirmative action be extended to only Whites and Asians as they might be under represented in the city's employment?)

I welcome a post-racial America and warmly embrace it. Thus, yes, when you have an organization whose membership is limited to a specific race and who's purpose is to promote that specific race, then yes, this organization is racist. It may be simplistic for many folks who want to hold onto their racist pasts, but if you can't swap races in the titles, purposes, and so-forth, then yes, it is racist. It should be no more acceptable to have a White Student Union as to have a Black Student Union.

Otherwise, if you want to retain your race-based identifications, organizations, and preferences, then you are not ready for a color-blind or post-racial society.

Matthew
http://www.TheIndependentView.com

Thank you for your answer. However, as I suspected it wouldn't, it does not address my original question,

Does this [perceived offensiveness] include any organization or group that seeks to redress the wrongs of those who suffer from racism, particularly those organizations made up of individuals from that racial group (think NAACP, CORE, La Raza, etc.)? For example, do you find HBC's offensive?
.

Let me see if I can be more precise: do you find the NAACP offensive? Why or why not? Do you find Spellman College offensive? Why or why not?

Your response gives your postion on affirmative action. My questions don't address affirmative action. but rather whether or not afflicted groups can band together to redress racial discrimination without being perceived as racist. Your student union example falls under this area. I would appreciate it if you could limit any response directly to this question so that I could get some measure on what you define as racism. You are not, after all, very clear on that in anything you've yet written.

Thank you.

Hillary Clinton can't keep up in fundraising. The Clinton's are the big money people they thought they were.

THAT'S the real headline.

Here's the analogy:

You go to a bar with a friend. You order two beers. You each pay for your beer. You order two more beers. You each pay for your beer. You go to order two more beers, and you discover you are out of cash. Your friend, however, has enough for three more beers. He buys one for himself, and two for the hot girls you've both been eyeballing all night. Later you complain that you were outsepnt.

No you weren't outspent. Your buddy brought the right amount to the bar. You, however, are a deadbeat.

LOL

RE: Matthew's Avitar

I agree the avitar is offensive. But I've notice a dearth of HRC-oriented avitars on this site. What does this say Obamites or Clintonistas? Could it be that it's easier to make an offensive visual statement about Obama than it is about Clinton?

grammar check: "say ABOUT Obamites or Clintonistas?"

FYI everyone - if you care:

Theme: Obama's words vs. actions, in context of his discredited oil ads in PA. Obama's ad says:

I'm Barack Obama. I don't take money from oil companies or Washington lobbyists, and I won't let them block change anymore. They'll pay a penalty on windfall profits. We'll invest in alternative energy, create jobs and free ourselves from foreign oil.

Rooney: Obama says in his ad that he's never taken any money from oil companies. No one does, because it's illegal. Yet he has taken $213k from employees of oil companies. Two of his bundlers are top execs at oil companies. (See Newsweek on this or my earlier post.)

Obama sided with Dick Cheney in voting for Dick Cheney's energy bill -- the best bill that oil companies could buy. Hillary voted against the bill.

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As a Hoosier, let me please say it really helps Hillary's campaign for her to keep explaining how Democrats in strong GOP states should be considered irrelevant. Because nothing helps motivate us to go out and vote in November more than a candidate that considers our votes to not even be worth fighting for.

That said - that's the least of the reasons I've switched from supporting Clinton to Obama - my skin is thicker than that.

First and foremost is Hillary Clinton's slash and burn campaign. I'm a pragmatic guy - I don't *care* if she plays as rough or rougher than McCain will.

But if there is anything that campaign has highlighted, it's that Barack Obama is *very* good at defending himself against those tactics.

Which means one thing about the election itself into stark contrast. Hillary Clinton's strengths as a fighter match up (quite well imo) against the GOP's strengths. Obama's Strengths match up against the GOP's weaknesses. Maybe it's cynical for me to consider the GOP the 'enemy' here (Although considering they've cost us one city, allowed a terrorist attack, collapsing mines, lead in toys, and on and on and on, "With 'friends' like these . . ." is a factor.), but in any battle, it's much better to match your strengths against the enemies weaknesses than try and mathch them strength on strength.

We know, in general, the GOP's strengths lie in hardball politics, and we have the good fortune of knowing exactly what candidate we will face. Against John McCain, playing hardball, Barack Obama is a better bet.

If I believed that Hillary was, objectively, a better candidate for the presidency, that wouldn't be enough. But as it happens, they are both strong candidates, and I will be happy to have either of them as a president. That being the case, I have the luxury of thinking tactically, and tactically, yes, I think Obama can take McCain and make it look easy. I think Hillary Clinton can take McCain, and it will be a knock-down drag out fight (Which could be fun to watch too), and the risk of another four years of the same policies we've had will be significantly larger.

Given those two options - I'm choosing Obama.

Jonnan

Even the phrase "his fundraising advantage" implies that there is something unfair about Obama's full coffers. What is his "advantage" but good fundraising ability and lots of people like me who believe in him and have given money (some of us for the first time ever). And the reason I made another donation is because I live in Pennsylvania and know he needs to do extra work here. BTW, yes, we're backward here but we did vote Santorum out of office last time he ran; that's where Bob Casey came from!

And didn't Hillary essentially buy her Massachusetts win? Prior to Super Tuesday she outspent Obama many times over because she had her big donors and his small donations were just starting to roll in. Everyone seems to forget that, especially Hillary.

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