Obama Drops New Mailer Hitting Hillary On Trade, But Its Implication Is Wrong
This is an interesting little battle that says a great deal about just how complex the causes really are of job loss in aging industrial states like Pennsylvania -- a phenomenon that's really driving this Democratic primary.
I've just obtained a new mailer that Obama dropped in Pennsylvania hitting Hillary by referencing her support for Permanent Normal Trade Relations with China and suggesting that it's to blame for the closing of a Corning plant in central PA. Click on the below images to enlarge:
The factory in question is a cathode ray tube plant that Corning, a $6 billion company specializing in the manufacture of high-tech glass and ceramics products, closed down a few years ago.
By quoting a dislocated worker saying that the "factory was shipped to China," the mailer seems designed to imply that Corning moved the jobs there while staying in the cathode ray tube business. The mailer implies that PNTR, which Hillary supported, is to blame for this. The mailer doesn't say outright that this is the case, but the implication is there.
But a spokesperson for Corning disputes this version of the facts.
The spokesperson, Dan Collins, says that Corning didn't move the jobs overseas -- rather, he says, Corning closed down the factory because the company exited the cathode ray tube making business.
"We didn't ship any jobs anywhere," Collins says. "We exited the business and closed the facility." His claim is supported by articles in the local press at the time.
Collins also claims that it's impossible to blame this on trade relations measures. He says that the TV manufacturing business shifted to Asia more than 20 years ago, meaning that the plant was manufacturing an outmoded technology -- cathode ray tubes -- and shipping them halfway around the world. This rendered the business unprofitable, he says.
But here's where the tale gets even more interesting.
The mailer also says this of the dislocated workers: "Some found temporary work dismantling the factory and sending the machines to China."
This part of the mailer, it turns out, is accurate. That's because while Corning did exit the business, they sold all the plant's equipment to a businessman in China -- and some of the plant's workers did disassemble its equipment for shipment abroad.
So when the worker says that "the factory was shipped to China," this could be seen as technically accurate in the sense that the equipment was shipped there. Nonetheless, the implication of the mailer is that Corning jobs were shipped abroad -- and this, apparently, is not true. The link between Corning contributions and the plant closing also seems unfounded.
All this is a very long-winded way of saying that the industrial job loss that's driving this campaign has very complex causes. They're a matrix of global economic changes, evolving technologies, and, yes, the impact of trade deals. And as a result, they elude the easy thumbnail characterization necessary in hard-fought, fast-moving presidential campaigns.






Comments (109)
Won't matter, elections are already showing corruption in PA. See below:
Posted on: Philly.com
We continue to hear reports of broken machines. This tale was reported to the Daily News by a very patient voter:
"I just came from voting. Finally got my vote in at 49 ward, 07 division....after waiting for (the only) 2 voting machines to be repaired.
"I was able to cast my vote for Obama after waiting 1 and 1/2 hours. During that time at least 100 voters left without voting.....possibly not to return.
"I immediately called every News channel I could get through to. Persons who answered at the stations informed me that my ward was not the only one with broken machines and 'Paper ballots (as an alternative) without Obama's name on it. These provisional ballots did have Hiliary's name on them."
April 22, 2008 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
So is this where the Rendell and Nutter machine comes into play? It's not just get out the vote. It's shut down the vote.
April 22, 2008 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, helps to have old corrupt party hacks pulling the strings there. Philly and PA have a long history of voter fraud.
April 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
So the factory was shipped overseas. That's totally accurate. Just because the machinery went to a different company in china doesn't mean that the flyer is inaccurate.
April 22, 2008 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
The flyer's inaccurate because it implies trade status with China has anything to do with the factory closing. I mean, cathode ray tubes? That's the best Barack could come up with? Japan and south Korea dominated that market 15 years ago, and it's now 3 generations behind the latest technology. Do you really want a protectionist trade policy that keeps Americans watching CRT TVs while the rest of the world is kicking back watching their OLEDs? :-)
April 22, 2008 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Digging one's grave before getting shot.
April 22, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem isn't that we're outsourcing th lowest technology jobs. The problem is we're outsourcing all the manufacturing jobs except for a few highly specialized and low volume items, like tanks.
For example, Japan manufactures many high quality goods in Japan to this day. The best manufactured goods, from cars to washers and driers, are all Japanese (and increasingly Korean) made. My Prius was made in Japan, where Toyota invented the Hybrid technology which is now being exported, at a profit, to other auto makers globally.
That's shameful we didn't invent the technology when we used to be the worlds #1 manufacturer.
Japan has trade policies to maintain a manufacturing base in Japan forever. It's for the national interest so Japan always employs people who choose labor, and so they always have capacity to manufacture whatever they need internally in case of a crisis. Japan helps seed technologies which create jobs it can retain in Japan. So does France and Germany and other developed countries.
If our government had any sense, we would have done the same. We seem to imagine all of America can become physicists, tourist guides, and nursing technicians. An absurd economic policy. We need to be developing our manufacturing and labor base for fundamental social and economic reasons.
April 22, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
btw, the Clintons didn't just support NAFTA, they architected it and rammed it down the throats of fellow Democrats. The Clintons totally bought into laissez faire, trickle down, economics in the post Reagan era.
The kind of think-tankers they're associated with are always pushing the idea that America can become a society of high end professionals on one end, like PhD of physics, biotech, etc, and on the other end a bunch of nursing technicians and hospitality industry workers. With nothing in between. Very little manufacturing and construction. Which is just crazy.
Talk about elitist. That's as elitist as it gets. It comes from a complete failure to realize that manufacturing is vital for the national interest. For employment and economic reasons, to maintain a solid middle class with the leisure time to raise healthy children and participate in democracy, to manufacture what we need so we're not stuck importing lead based toys from China, and importing cars from Japan, and electronics from Korea.
We should be able to compete in cars and high end appliances, at the very least. We should create a green energy economy and manufacture solar panels, turbines, batteries, and hybrid electric cars, here in the US. We need to start playing hard ball with competitors and realize the value of maintaining a healthy middle class.
April 22, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, I think you have this one wrong. I don't see anywhere in the flier that is contradicted by what you wrote or what the Corning person said. The fact that this "factory was shipped to China" seems beyond debate. There is no reason to believe that the flier is trying to imply that Corning actually moved its own operations to China, rather than that the operations were sold to China to be operated locally there. Either way, the "factory was shipped to China."
As a business still active in PA and NY, not to mention selling products across the country, Corning also has an incentive to, you know, NOT SAY THAT THEY SHIPPED JOBS OVERSEAS, even if they indirectly did so. They don't want to be the lead story on Lou Dobbs for the next month.
It appears the Obama campaign was actually very precise in explaining what happened. Corning closed the factory and shipped the supplies overseas, which was done by some of the workers being getting laid off. Then some Chinese factory started making the CRTs. I mean, it's just about as literal a case of "shipping jobs overseas" as you can possibly have.
If you don't accept that as shipping jobs overseas, then you must basically reject that common Dem talking point in virtually all situations.
April 22, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right. This article really questions whether Sargent has any clue how trade works or the fundamental issues.
They went out of the business because they couldn't compete with a Chinese company undercutting them. so they decided to cash out and sold all the machinery to the Chinese company. That's what's happening across the country and it's disastrous for our economy and long term growth.
In other words, US companies can't compete to sell to their *own market* when China is running near slave labor. Even with international freight, and the cost of relocating the entire plant to China, they couldn't compete.
Countries like Japan (who is a lot closer to China) specifically don't adopt such suicidal trade policies. Japan only outsources the most unskilled labor to China. But it keeps the good jobs, like auto manufacturing. The net result is that Japanese have much higher job security, a thriving middle class representing much more of the population than in America, and overall has a higher quality of life. And they're still one of the most technologically competitive nations.
April 22, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're missing the big issue:
Does China deserve Permanent Trading status?
This is a country that is arguably just as bad as Iraq: It tortures dissidents, suppresses freedom of religion and free speech, and it is a huge polluter, which makes it more of a global threat than Iraq ever was.
Yet, do we sanction China? No, we reward it.
Makes no sense to me, but maybe a Hillary supporter can explain why Iraq = Bad, China = Good.
April 22, 2008 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
The premise behind that question is so muddled that it precludes a proper answer.
As an interesting aside:
"It tortures dissidents, suppresses freedom of religion and free speech, and it is a huge polluter"
could describe America almost as well as China...
April 22, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, that's not true. While the US is not and has never been angelic by any means, we certainly are not China.
And, anyway, what would your point be? Most favored status is appropriate for China?
April 22, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Most Favored Nation" status is given to over 130 countries in the US, many of them with a record far worse than China. It's ironic that many of you Obama supporters are willing to talk to Iran, but have no problem bashing and isolating China.
April 22, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
China is not "isolated" from the US in any way I can tell, unless you are talking about military technologies. Iran is very much isolated as official US policy. It's apples and oranges this comparison you make. No one said don't talk to China at all ever (as you mock those who think more frequent negotiations with Iran might be a good idea), but criticism of China's human rights record and their squelching of dissent/free speech is fair, as worries about the trade/job/debt imbalance are valid as well. That also doesn't mean US policies can't be criticized (and many of those posting here are critical more often and more vociferously of US policy than Chinese overall).
Lastly, where did you come from? Did you just show up here today to rebut criticisms of China and US trade policies toward China?
April 22, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't say the US was bad, just that the description fit almost s well. You could add "bullies small neighbouring islands with different forms of Government" too. ;-)
I agree with the basic point that I think SC was making, which is the glaring inconsistencies in American foreign policy. Borrowing £10 billion from the Chinese and giving it to Pakistan to prop up a military dictatorship, spending biliions more to topple a middle eastern dictatorship. Given billions to Israel to protect it from the middle east, giving billions more to middle eastern allies that are stated enemies of Israel.
I think Ron Paul's got it absolutely right on this issue.
April 22, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
All his fliers are lies and using Rove tactics.
He is running just like w and would lead like him too.
Too bad you drank too much of his kool aid and can't see it.
It is very obvious.
This is the third time a candidate has fooled America.
w twice and now Obama.
April 22, 2008 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
His fliers are NOT lies.
He's going hard after Hillary, like Bill Clinton said he should.
"If you can't stand the Heat...."
April 22, 2008 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're wasting your time with this guy. We'd all be better off ignoring him from now on. It's obvious he's only here to troll and to try to get under people's skins.
April 22, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love how you have no facts to back any of that up.
Listen, you can't put cut and paste the name "Rove" into every post you write to try to accuse Obama of using nefarious tactics. There is no lying here, and certainly nothing Rovian.
Once again, you embarrass yourself.
April 22, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is just another way of jobs moving overseas. Sometimes corporations move factories overseas and do the same thing there, and sometimes the business is less profitable than it would be overseas, so they just get out of the industry altogether, and China (or wherever else) gets the equipment and does the job over there for cheaper. Either way it is the market moving the jobs from the US to China, regardless of whether or not that specific corporation keeps in the business. I think it is a ridiculous distinction to make, especially when it is obvious that normalizing trade with China has obviously resulted in jobs being shipped overseas. Why quibble about one specific example when the issue at hand is entirely legitimate?
Oh yeah, because they can't attack it on the substance.
And I would also like to point out that Hillary wasn't so concerned about the human rights abuses in China when she supported normalizing trade with China. Yet now she is trying to "stand up to China" on the Olympics, like that will make a single bit of difference. Maybe she should have had this opportunistic fake care back when they were debating the merits of changing our trade relationship with China.
April 22, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Now look who's embarrassing themselves. Hillary showed a helluvalot of guts when she got up, in China, and lambasted them for their treatment of women. I'd argue that showed more fortitude than giving an anti-war speech, at an anti-war rally...
April 22, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
How exactly was that so gutsy? Did she do it under fear of beatings or imprisonment?
Gutsy would have been to say no to king George before the Iraq war/occupation. But it was politically expedient to just go along then, so that's exactly what she did.
Hillary gutsy? Ha
April 22, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, and at a time when being against the war wasn't politically popular, which I'm sure is why Hillary walked in lockstep with Bush...that or because she is in fact very much like Bush in terms of foreign policy, which her recent comments seem to indicate is the case.
And it wasn't just one speech, but I congratulate you for being able to read talking points directly off Hillary's website.
April 22, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's targeting the "low information" voters again. Uggh.
April 22, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Isn't Obama supposed to be going after Hillary voters? Isn't that the idea?
April 22, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Isn't Obama supposed to be going after Hillary voters? Isn't that the idea?
April 22, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
No he isn't, this whole post is about playing semantics, but the point is accurate and not debatable, which is why Hillary's campaign isn't debating the ad on the core argument.
And did a Hillary supporter seriously just accuse Obama of targeting low-information voters?? Haha, that is her core constituency, and she has been deceiving them throughout this entire campaign!
What hypocrites you people are!
April 22, 2008 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
So is this fodder for Clinton? Indiana? Who?
April 22, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Remember, this would only be a negative flyer if Hillary sent it out. Because it came from Obama, it is nice and hopeful and addresses in a mature and thoughtful manner the issues.
April 22, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, baby, this is a last minute gut check. Suppress her voters. Win in PA. Keep it close. Roll out the supers in a couple of days, win NC by 25 points, game over. Then on to the general election.
April 22, 2008 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
As far as I can remember, I never complained about Hillary's fliers.
It's her "not qualified to be CIC" TV ads that bother me.
April 22, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Acually, I was pretty pissed about those last minute "he voted present on abortion" things she kept sending out in states where that would be considered a bad thing. Those were kind of the mirror image of these: they used a statement that was technically true to convey a falsehood--i.e. Obama is weak on abortion rights. These contain a statement that is not literally true--that they shipped the jobs to China--to convey something that is true: "free" trade with China has resulted in manufacturing jobs being destroyed here and created there just as fast as the dolts with the MBA's and the stock options can manage.
April 22, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good for him.
This time around, HRC isn't getting away with dropping last minute fliers & commercials.
This time, he's (at minimum) minimizing her last minute tricks, with his own.
I can live with that.
April 22, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
well she is, she dropped her share of mailers, and she also started in with that bin laden ad, as usual.
At least Obama's ads are factually accurate and don't resort to blatant fearmongering.
April 22, 2008 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this any different than "vetting", "Commander in Chief testing", or the "kitchen sink"?
Admittedly, the back and forth on Trade has been shameless on both sides. I feel bad for the people voting for Hillary or Barack because they actually think either one of them is opposed to NAFTA, or will bring back their manufacturing jobs.
April 22, 2008 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hm, seems kind of squirrley to me. It also seems rather small and trifling an issue, but all other things being equal I would rather that Obama had not dropped this mailer. It does seem somewhat beneath him to my mind, although my respect for him is only very, very slightly dimmed by this.
April 22, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
You guys have to stop using the word "drop" like it's a Top 40 hit. Really. It sounds neither cool, and it's actually deceptive (I thought initially that it meant he's recalled the mailer before I remembered you guys are trying a little too hard to use slang in your headlines).
April 22, 2008 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think they are using it like "dropped da bomb" to up their cool factor. I think drop is an actual actual term used for mailings and mass mailings, long before the rise of hip hop culture.
April 22, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
The thing about relocation of CRT manufacturing is that it's probably not a profitable business in the US in part because of environmental regulations. I know for a fact that the kinds of vacuum tubes used in audio equipment have been made outside the US for years because the process by which they are made is so damaging. As a result, new tubes come from China and Russia. (and they tend to suck as well.) Presumably both Clinton and Obama support these kids of environemental regulations domestically. But enforcing those regulations so that imported products are tariffed to offset the cost of these regulations on American manufacturing is another matter entirely. I would not be surprised at all if Clinton was against those kinds of tarifs, though she could well before them. I have no idea.
April 22, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. This is on Talking Points Memo saying that the advertisement is misleading? That means it's grossly inaccurate and should not have been sent out. TPM has been a surrogate of the Obama campaign and it's rare that anything that can be seen as critical has come from it. Obama is a hypocrite, and a liar.
April 22, 2008 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
They drank his kool aid and will never admit it.
It is very obvious.
April 22, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
So I guess they're even then.
April 22, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way, I think this mailer is a very weak and twisted argument against a solid point Obama is making.
Reminds me of how Bush used Rather-gate to coverup for the fact that overall Rather was on target about Bush going AWOL in Texas.
The crux of the argument, American manufacturing being shipped to China, is indisputable, so Hilalry quibbles over whether the news TVs ahve the Corning logo. (And TPM plays along)
April 22, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
The real problem is those damn voting machines again although it seems like we've been talking about this forever! why is that "the greatest country in the history of the world" can not come up with a working voting machine, why?
April 22, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Antidote for 'toxic' politics, packed with its own venom
Obama deplores attacks as he uses similar tactics"
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/04/22/antidote_for_toxic_politics_packed_with_its_own_venom/
Can you stop drinking his kool aid long enough to admit his message is a lie?
April 22, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
As soon as you stop snorting Senator Clinton's bullshit.
April 22, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where is TrollCritic when we need him?? All I know is you can't credibly mention "kool-aid" in every frigging post without taking some serious deductions.
The insinuation that every Obama supporter is a "kool aid" drinker is offensive, and grossly inaccurate. I will have you know that I, and many others like me, support Obama, and drink Hawaiian Punch.
April 22, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
What part of the Kitchen Sink strategy isn't a lie?
Hoist on her own petard....
April 22, 2008 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, what is it about HOPE AND CHANGE that you object to?
I know. I shouldn't feed the trolls, but Freep has been pretty slow of late. They are really into "Operation Chaos" over there
April 22, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
"So when the worker says that "the factory was shipped to China," this could be seen as technically accurate in the sense that the equipment was shipped there. Nonetheless, the implication of the mailer is that Corning jobs were shipped abroad -- and this, apparently, is not true. The link between Corning contributions and the plant closing also seems unfounded."
But the jobs apparently were "shipped" to China: Corning exiting the business, and selling the equipment use for CRTs to a Chinese company, which will then pick up where Corning left off, and presumably hire Chinese to do the same jobs.
I guess I missed the part where you explained how the mailer is misleading.
Because they slapped a different logo on the end product? A job is a job. And these jobs were in fact sent to China.
April 22, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
When people talk about sending jobs to China, they're talking about moving their workers to China. They're not talking about getting out of the business. RCA moved its factories to Mexico, doing the same work with cheaper labor. Corning got out of its business, of course selling off what equipment it could. Perhaps we could have subsidized the cathode ray tube business to keep them good ol' jobs in America.
In any case, much of this praise about manufacturing jobs is nonsense. We keep the infosystems and medical and marketing jobs where 98% of the money is and ship the 2% gruntwork to Asia? Big shit. If you want to sweat so much, take a vacation to Cancun. If you want to survive in 2008, learn a marketable skill. It's easy - head to http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ecopro.t06.htm
April 22, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, the problem is that Corning didn't ship the jobs anywhere.
They just got rid of the jobs. And shipped the equipment to buyers in China to get some lemonade (for the company) out of their lemons.
April 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did some digging into this and there are couple of points that need to be corrected:
1. The plant was a joint venture between Corning and Asahi Technology. It produced cathode ray tubes for traditional televisions (a dying technology).
3. They (Corning and Asahi) agreed to shutter the plant and divest the assets to Henan Anyang CPT Glass Bulb Group, Electronic Glass Co. Ltd, a state-owned company in China. Henan continues to manufacture glass tubes to date.
4. Corning has a joint venture with Samsung to produce flat planel cathode ray tubes, which are manufactured in Korea, China and other countries except the US.
In short, instead of retooling the plant in Pennsylvania to produce flat panel cathode ray tubes (which are manufactured in China and elsewhere), they shuttered it and sold the equipment to another cathode ray tube manufacturer based in China, which continues to produce those tubes.
April 22, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg,
If you are going to take the time to fact check this mailer, could you please also take the time to get verification from more than one source about the facts surrounding the situation?
I'm not disputing anything you are reporting here, but it's completely unreasonable to expect a Corning PR contact to give an objective or accurate recount of the situation if the facts could reflect unfavorable on his employer.
Dan Collins' job is to protect the interests of Corning. If Corning could be hurt by their actions in this situation, he's not going to tell you the whole truth.
Greg, if you consider yourself a journalist, please hold yourself to the standards of that profession (especially considering it's Ehics Week.) Dan Collins is the very definition of "Conflict of Interest" and is not a reliable source on his own. He needs to be balanced or replaced with another viewpoint to make this a valid piece of reporting.
A glance at the SPJ's Code Of Ethics may be of use to you and your fellow Jounalists:
http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
April 22, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess you missed the part where I said that local press reports at the time bore out that version of events?
Miss that sentence?
April 22, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Facts?
They will shoot the messenger on anything resembling a negative for Obama.
April 22, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
By "They", do you mean the Kool-Aid drinkers, or the Hawaiian Punchers?
April 22, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's good bullshit....
April 22, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
GREG
1) I didn't miss that, but it struck me as odd. What press reports? I was picturing Corning sending you a packet of their clippings, or maybe just them telling you local press supported that version. A reference or something more specific would have helped.
2) FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, STOP COMMENTING ON YOUR OWN POSTS!! It belittles you and your work. You already have a GIANT voice here at TPM without getting into squabbles with detractors in the comments section. You always come off bad when you get snippy with people here, right or wrong. Yeesh.
April 22, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg,
I find your sarcasm refreshing and professional.
I read that sentence. What I missed was any link to or excerpt from said local press to back up the value judgment that SOMEONE has made (it's not clear who has blessed said articles as valid and supportive.)
In today's media landscape, the term "local press" is just as subjective as the personal judgment that the articles support Corning's preferred version of the back story.
All of this is beside the point that the company's public relation's department has a vested interest in emphasizing certain facts and de-emphasizing others if their image is at stake, and is therefore not objective. A vague and subjective assertion to the contrary (indeed, the suggestion is so vague that your reader cannot even ascertain who is asserting it) does not excuse that.
Neither does snark.
April 22, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another good point, why I find this post weak.
April 22, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's just another example of Obama distorting the facts. If you want to see more, visit Hillary's website.
April 22, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because candidates' websites offer only unvarnished truth.
April 22, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, they are really piling up.
She will need more storage space on her server.
If you look at all his fliers, they are pretty much the same.
Lies, smears and Rove tactics.
A new kind of politics, if you drank his kool aid.
April 22, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't drink Kool Aid, I prefer Hawaiian Punch, how many times do we have to go through this?
April 22, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes Otto, if I want to see more distorted facts I will visit Hillary's website, I'm sure it is full of distorted facts.
I just hope the snipers don't get to her website before I have a chance to.
April 22, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
But then the Chinese company will make those CRTS and hire people to do the same jobs.
Think of jobs as a fungible commodity:
If your friend loans you $10 to buy a book, and then you spend it on beer, you can't claim that, "oh, I didn't spend your $10 on the beer, I spent a different $10."
Claiming those are "different jobs" now in China is a shell game.
April 22, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is precisely what happened.
April 22, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
*CRT TVs*!! Such antiquated technology. It's an argument in favour of free trade with China, that the company was able to find somebody to actually buy the equipment!
April 22, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too bad the company didn't upgrade the facility to produce newer TVs, retaining some local jobs.
Reminds me of those big tax cuts Reagan gave the steel producers in the early 80s, under the premise that they would upgrade their shops in order to keep jobs in PA. Welp, what did the companies do? They took the breaks and then closed up shop, no benefit for anyone but themselves.
April 22, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Huh? Upgrade a cathode ray tube factory to make LCD TV's?
"I can't make my business work so I sold off my equipment to someone who can" is the same as "I hired a bunch of people who would work for less money than my current workers"?
The number of people jumping the shark the last few days has been quite outstanding.
April 22, 2008 2:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, factories are upgraded and converted all the time, all around the world. Just not this one, and just not enough in the US in general. Just as the company sold equipment from this location, it's also possible to buy new equipment for the same location.
April 22, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Foreigner, you are so full of yourself. Those cathode tubes do come back to the USA for a specific market, and Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton are involved in pushing legislation to help out the Chinese by suspending the duty on them, for pete's sake.
Check out the following bills under the sponsorship 'Charles Schumer [for himself and Mrs. Clinton]: S 3312 [flat panel screen monitors, S 3313, S 3314, and S 3315 [these last three are refer to certain color or black and white monitors containing cathode tubes]. All four pieces of legislation admit that the products' source is China.
Here is an excerpt from S 3313, introduced October 4, 2006:
Product information, including uses/applications and source(s) of imports:
"This product is a video monitor with a cathode-ray tube and with a screen size greater than 35.56 cm (14
inches) in video display diagonal, designed for viewing live and recorded video signals from security
cameras, video storage devices, and other closed-circuit television (CCTV) equipment. Unlike video
monitors intended for consumer use, these monitors have BNC3 input connections and video loop-thru
connectors to permit increased flexibility of video signal routing and connectivity. These monitors are
usually used in applications requiring continuous operation and feature higher reliability than monitors
intended for consumer use. China is the principal source of these monitors."
April 22, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you really want your economy to be based on low- and old technology manufacturing, supplying niche markets, that's fine. Luckily Hillary and others have better foresight, and understanding, of what it takes to be successful in a global, competetive economy.
April 22, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Successful for whom, Foreigner? The CEOs or the workers. Maybe your question should be asked of the laid off workers who might rather fill a manufacturing niche market than work at a fast food restaurant. Just one of those 'suspension of duty' imports is worth 1.5+ million per year, wholesale.
April 22, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reality Check;
CRT TV sets are still in big demand in China and other Asian Countries.
If the China Trade agreement had required them to pay their workers a wage package, and adhere to environmental standards that would have leveled the playing field, the plant could have been kept in Pennsylvania, and the CRT Tubes could have been exported to Asia.
The reason why that did not happen is because people like Senator Clinton signed on to a China Trade agreement that allows them to manufacture products at near slave wages standards. That is why the Plant was shipped to China, because Corning could not afford to continue to pay American workers a living wage, and compete with the slave wage standards of China that Senator Hillary Clinton signed off on.
April 22, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
"and the CRT Tubes could have been exported to Asia."
LOL you're mad! Next you'll be suggesting America exports coffee to Columbia!
A country should concentrate on its strengths. Manufacturing old, old technologies is not a strength in a developed, hi-tech country. Economic protectionism does far more damage in the long run. So many examples of that, the US auto industry with its low, low mileage standards was one such example.
That's why I think Hillary has the right idea with her green technologies push.
April 22, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone who argues that "China = Iraq" has just lost all credibility. China is nothing like Iraq, it's a complex and highly dynamic society 4 times the size of the US; China is still largely poor, but working hard to raise its standard of living. While China may not have much political freedom right now, the average Chinese has far more economic and personal freedoms than the average Iraqi today. You would be delusional to think otherwise.
April 22, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
The fact you're arguing that China is bad, just not as bad as Iraq, is telling.
Anyway, I'm not talking about invading China. I'm just saying maybe the US should penalize them for killing and torturing innocent people?
Maybe? Just a little?
April 22, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
April 22, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Greg gets scolded yet again for straying off message that says Hillary wants to nuclear bomb the Democratic Party and Bill Clinton's racist cock is a WMD.
April 22, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reality Check;
CRT TV sets are still in big demand in China and other Asian Countries.
If the China Trade agreement had required them to pay their workers a wage package, and adhere to environmental standards that would have leveled the playing field, the plant could have been kept in Pennsylvania, and the CRT Tubes could have been exported to Asia.
The reason why that did not happen is because people like Senator Clinton signed on to a China Trade agreement that allows them to manufacture products at near slave wages standards. That is why the Plant was shipped to China, because Corning could not afford to continue to pay American workers a living wage, and compete with the slave wage standards of China that Senator Hillary Clinton signed off on
April 22, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not a slave wage to the Chinese! It may be a "slave wage" to people like you who pay $4 for a cup of coffee, but in China, $400/mo can last you an entire month with savings in the bank. China's savings rate is 50%, while most Americans live paycheck-to-paycheck! Does that sound like a slave wage to you? Would you prefer the Chinese to toil away in a rural farm earning even less than their "slave wages"?
April 22, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would prefer that they be required to pay the same wage levels as American Industries have to pay their workers, so that America can compete on a level playing field, and that the Chinese Workers will actually earn enough to purchase products that the USA exports to China.
What are you, another one of Hillary's Simpleton brigade that actually believes that putting American Families out of work, in order to let China get away with paying near slave wages to their workers, and then destroying America's balance of trade capacity is a good thing.
Tell Hillary to come clean with American Blue Collar workers, since that is her policy.
April 22, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are in lalaland. That's not how economies work. Eventually there will be convergence (China's wages will go up), but you can't just mandate that the Chinese be paid the same amount of money that Joe Blow gets paid for sitting around pulling a lever. The dynamic is that there are hundreds of millions of poor Chinese who are willing to work for what you call "slave wages" because these wages are still higher than what they had before. It's basic SUPPLY AND DEMAND. If your (lack of) economic sensibilities represent even 10% of Obama's supporters, I pray for my country's future.
April 22, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
They don't.
I went to China last winter. China is the new land of opportunity from an economic viewpoint. My planes there and back were packed with Americans getting rich off of investing in China's new economy. It's an extremely complex iss