Mark Penn's Earlier Version Of 3 A.M. Ad Was Negative Direct Hit On Obama
Here's an interesting postscript to the saga of Mark Penn, who stepped down from his role as Hillary's chief strategist yesterday:
Penn had an earlier version of the infamous 3 A.M. ad that was much more of a negative spot attacking Barack Obama, and the attack prompted objections from other senior Hillary advisers, a Hillaryland source familiar with internal discussions over the ad tells me.
Among those senior advisers who objected to the ad's negative content was senior ad guru Mandy Grunwald, who's clashed with Penn in the past, the source says.
Just after Hillary's Ohio and Texas wins, Penn credited the actual ad, which contained no direct hit on Obama, with breaking his momentum.
But the version that did this -- to the extent that the ad worked -- was a later, and more positive spot, than one initially proposed by Penn, the source says.
"This was the way it was originally conceived," the adviser says. "It did not say the words `Barack Obama.' But there was a contrast part. It had a clear hit on Obama and it also had a much more negative feeling with the music."
The adviser continues: "The original ad asked, Who would you prefer answering the call -- someone with strength and experience, or someone who's untested?"
The clash over the ad underscores yet again the extent to which Penn clashed with other senior Hillary advisers about the campaign's message and direction. Some Hillary advisers hope that Penn's departure will signal less reliance on heavy-handed assertions about Obama's supposed weakness in comparison with Hillary and more of an emphasis on humanizing Hillary and showcasing her leadership abilities.
The disagreement over the ad also undercuts Penn's own justification for the ad. Shortly after news of the ad broke, Penn described the ad during a conference call with reporters as "a positive spot" with "very soft images."
The Hillary campaign and Penn's office both declined to comment on the clash over the ad; Grunwald didn't return repeated calls.















A couple of particular items:
1. Penn appears to have "stepped down" from his role in name only. Even the campaign said he'd still be involved, and as has been reported elsewhere (though not on TPM), the very Monday after he was "sacked," Penn was on the campaign conference call. Doesn't seem like much of a step down.
2. Obama won Texas.
Aside from that, it is indeed interesting to see the much-criticized ad was in fact less dirty than Penn proposed. Says just a little bit more about the man.
April 7, 2008 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
THANK YOU, ResumeMan, for making those points. It really sets me off to still be hearing that Clinton won Texas.
I hope someone asks Clinton how much she's paying Penn now, after his change in status. Has his salary been significantly reduced?
April 7, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's not paying him anything because she's broke.
April 8, 2008 4:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe before February 5th this would have mattered. But it didn't. They implemented their big state strategy and it backfired. Removing the captain of the Titantic AFTER he's crashed into the iceberg is a little late....
April 7, 2008 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Spine of Steel - Ready from Day 1
April 7, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
paging idiotic
April 7, 2008 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
This post reminds me of the Huckabee press conference....
April 7, 2008 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's EXACTLY what I was thinking.
April 7, 2008 7:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, he did, and thanks.
Obama won Texas
April 7, 2008 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
So why are they leaking this news just now.
Doesn't it make Hillary look like a spineless wimp who did not get rid of Penn even after they were well aware that he was doing more harm than good.
They have not even dropped him as of today.
They also knew that he worked for Blackwater and Countrywide, yet they had to be forced by Big Labor to even put on a charade of having removed him, and they clearly have not. Does Hillary ever tell the truth, or is she even capable of doing so.
April 7, 2008 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
One thing is quite clear: Senator Clinton can not even show some leadership within her own campaign.
April 7, 2008 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why are they leaking it now?
It's a move worthy of Machiavelli: The Clintons get to present a very negative attack, whilst feigning disgust over the content (conveniently blamed on a newly departed strategist) thus appearing to be above the fray.
Bleh.
April 7, 2008 10:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some Hillary advisers hope that Penn's departure will signal less reliance on heavy-handed assertions about Obama's supposed weakness in comparison with
Too bad he isn't really going anywhere.
April 7, 2008 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
All this is starting to make me not like Mark Penn very much.
April 7, 2008 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Penn is a sleaze not because he was involved with the Clinton's who obviously love the guy, but because of what he stands for.
To say he is responsible for sinking Hillary chances is bogus.
She runs the darn thing and truth of it is she is just a poor candidate.
She has name recognition and that's all.
Throw in the powerful and elite money people that own the Clinton machine and she was able to get this far.
Except something happened along the way.
She ran into a more intelligent more inspirational and more organized candidate.
While she flounders in a campaign that would insult anyone with integrity, Senator Obama has withstood attacks from the media and from the Clintons that have questioned his patriotism and accused him of being a racist,weak on security, etc.
She is not only a disgrace to herself but epitomizes the traits of character that I personally find offensive.
The raging ambition,her sense of entitlement ,the lying , using then discarding others for personal gain, her no principled attitude that winning at any cost is ok,,actually it nauseates me to list the rest.
Hopefully she has been so damaged that she is forced to retreat from American politics.
And I cant think of a single reason why that would not be a good thing.
April 7, 2008 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hear, hear!
April 7, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
This explains the incongruousness of the emotionally un-scary music against the scarified images.
I always suspected that this ad had been created by committee. It's one of the reasons it was so ineffective.
April 7, 2008 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I, for one, am delighted that Senator Hillary Rambo Clinton,
The Heroine of Tuzla, has made a full recovery after undergoing Steel Spine replacement surgery to replace her natural one that got crushed back in 1993 by the Health Care Industry Steam Roller.
April 7, 2008 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interpreting the reason for this message from the Hillary campaign's 'unnamed advisor': We decided that we want you to connect in your minds that it was Penn who caused us [and Hillary] to go negative on Obama, especially because Penn is now a handy scapegoat, and especially because our negativity about Obama, er, sorta did more damage to our campaign than to Obama's campaign.
April 7, 2008 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, I love it when unnammed advisors bash Penn because he is such a worthy target -- though their doing so is really a slam on Hillary since she's the one who hired him, stuck with him after it was obvious he was utterly incompetent, and still left him on the campaign after he betrayed her blue collar supporters by meeting with the Colombian ambassador.
Still, everything that comes out of the campaign is spin and nothing can be trusted. I'm not sure they even meet Stephen Colbert's standard of "truthiness." So when stories like this come out, they're best taken with a healthy grain of salt. In all likelihood, someone's trying to cover his or her ass or position him- or herself for a post-campaign gig.
April 7, 2008 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of ads, turns out that there was more truth to Clinton's hospital story than originally thought when everyone started calling her a liar. AP is running a story titled "Clinton tale - part truth, part error."
As for the original 3AM ad, I hope its not too late to run it.
April 7, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, me too. Nothing would be better than to get people thinking about the Tigress of Tuzla's Strength and Experience(TM).
And as to her story, it's really reaching to say there was any truth in it as told by Hillary.
Here's the link you failed to provide. http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20080407/APP/804072675
April 7, 2008 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/32711.html
Apparently most Americans think it's time for Ms. Clinton to install a sprinkler system in her pantsuit.
One 1/2 truth does not suddenly renew her credibility after: NAFTA, Sniper-fire, Ireland, NAFTA-Colombia Edition, Penn's "demotion" (except he was on conference calls), saying she was criticizing Iraq before Obama, etc.
You gotta hand it to her though, she keeps thinking we're going to keep buying her bullshit as long as she's selling it.
Apparently some of you are...
April 7, 2008 10:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am sooooo confused!
Apparently Penn was on the Clintons' daily conference clown show (albeit the Double Secret one)
With a campaign such as the Clintons have run, the very notion that she's remotely "electable" is grotesquely risible
April 7, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the main point here is the whole strategy was wrong to begin with. What Hillary should have done is go after Bush, the GOP and McCain. Be a conduit for information about the dark side.
April 7, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
How much further from anything meaningful, how much more detached from actual politics, how much deeper into the nuances and shades of complete and utter bullshit is a campaign allowed to dive before it's seen as what it is?
How much more crap are Clinton supporters going to swallow before they finally gag, throw up and come to their senses?
And don't give me more crap by telling me, "this is politics." No, this is not politics. It is crap. At its very best it is crap desperately pretending to be politics.
I'm following election campaigns in three quite diverse countries apart from the U.S.. In none of them would so much of the crap that passes for politics in the U.S. be viewed as anything other than the crap it is. What the hell is the matterwith some of you people?!
April 7, 2008 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Penn is still on the payroll. Penn and his firm are still part of the campaign. Penn is still CEO of a massive PR and lobbying firm. Hillary doesn't get it.
April 7, 2008 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
JadeZ putting aside her predilection to make stuff up, her disastrously mismanaged campaign and the turn toward the delusionally darkside she's taken she's really not a bad candidate.
She's a pretty good debater, is comfortable in her own skin (unlike Gore and Kerry), can deflect dumb questions from preening media clowns and can recite
her policy positions forwards and backwards in front of 10 people or a national teevee audience.
April 7, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
While you are whining about Penn, Clinton picked up another super, led on China and free trade and tomorrow gets to grill betrauyus on Iraq.
The rookie Obama will go last.
Any word from Obama on his position to boycott the opening ceremonies yet?
Didn't think so, he never leads, just follows her lead.
Clinton/Obama, you do want to win don't you?
April 7, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, Obama is ranked higher on his commission (Foreign Relations) than Clinton is on hers (Armed Services), so he'll be questioning Petraeus before Clinton as far as order is concerned.
Although Clinton/Obama is a great idea! It will get a Democrat elected, just like the Johnson/Kennedy ticket!
OH WAIT.
April 7, 2008 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, because calling for a boycott is such an important issue given that we all know Bush is going no matter what.
Stop being so condescending.
April 7, 2008 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another super? So she has a net of -4 since Super Tuesday (compared to Obama's +65)? She's on her way, baby!
April 7, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gotalife - why would you want someone as terrible as you claim to feel Obama is to be the VP and heartbeat away from the presidency? If he is as bad as you say he is then you wouldn't want him running a school board in Idaho; unless of course all of your sharp tounged comments about Obama are nothing more than political BS.
So which is it? Do you A) like Obama but just like Hillary more or B) are you just looking for some possible way to salvage Clinton's chances?
April 7, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I also really don't understand how you can advocate Obama as a VP when he's such an unelectable, America-hating empty suit.
April 7, 2008 9:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
The China thing is a bad move and a insult to the Chinese people. There are better wyas to engaged that Chinese goverment than to insult all of the Chinese people.
The Olympics are a great source of pride and honor for any country that host it. To boycott any part of the Olympics to make a political statement is a disgrace. I disagree with Pelosi, Clinton and even Obama if he comes out in agreement.
April 7, 2008 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you really want to point out the Super-Tally for the day?
Really?
Ok, here goes:
4-6-08 Replaced Mary Lou Winters (Clinton) with Elsie Burkhalter as DNC member from LA. Burkhalter is being placed on the uncommitted list as of now.
- Added North Dakota add-on Dan Hannaher (ND)# for Obama.
- Added DNC Margarett Campbell (MT) for Obama.
4-7-08 - Added DNC Jean Lemire Dahlman (MT) for Obama
- Removed DNC Margarett Campbell (MT) from Obama after she pulled back her endorsement due to ND party rules.
Added Mark Wilcox (AR)# for Clinton.
By my count, that's a net gain of zero for Clinton today (Wilcox added, Winters lost & replaced with an uncommitted)and a net gain of two for Obama (added Hannaher & Dahlman. Added then lost Campbell due to party rules)
source: http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegate-list.html
April 7, 2008 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hehehe, like he followed Clinton on Iraq, right?
You're a funny person, gotalife.
April 7, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ooh, that DEVASTATING blow of boycotting the opening ceremonies will surely crumble China's frail national identity.
For the record, Obama has recently talked about the Tibet situation in light of the Olympics, for example, on March 15th which by my calculation is slightly before April. Not that he did not mention it on April 2nd too which, incidentally, is also before the unveiling of the stupendously, heart-flutteringly awesome Clinton "plan."
But of course he was merely expressing hesitancy about participating at all, which is obviously a wimpy stance compared to the sheer massive display of international firepower that boycotting the opening ceremonies would be.
At this point you probably would not appreciate a retrospective on the two's positions before 2008 so I will spare you for now.
April 7, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
You really should change your name to Black Pot (Suffering From Achromatopsia).
Boycotting the opening ceremonies is just that...ceremonial. It's completely meaningless unless you boycott the games themselves. Give me a break. That's not leadership; it's PR. And I thought the same thing when the French president hinted at doing the same thing.
And since when will Bush boycotting the ceremonies have the effect of enacting the needed change in Tibet or Darfur? If you think Bush not being at the Games and having that be a story for a few days will actually save any lives, I have a solar-powered flashlight for sale.
As for the procedure with Petraeus (not betrayus - grow up), it can be good to have the last word in some cases. Who cares in what order they go? Oh, right - you. Enjoy, I guess.
And speaking of "whining", Black Pot, you'd complain if Obama didn't cover his mouth when he sneezed. Aren't you the guy who's always whining about Obama supporters rejecting unity? Way to lead the way to the Promised Land, genius.
April 7, 2008 10:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTW, Obama has lobbyists on his campaign but he gets a free pass.
Do a little research on your do nothing wrong candidate if you do not believe me.
Josh has the truth about the latest accused lie on the front page but I can't do your reading for you.
April 7, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not exactly something to be crowing about, homie. She still didn't get this story completely right, and in the rush to exploit it to gain sympathy points for her campaign, still didn't vet the story...at all.
No one claims Obama's without fault, guy. Give the drama-queen act a rest. And if your proof is so obvious, why haven't you been able to make your case yet? I mean, shit - you spend all day on these forums, it seems. And if your candidate was so strong, why do you feel it so necessary to continue slamming Obama?
April 7, 2008 11:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I must be a moron because I don't make as much money as this despicable fool.
April 7, 2008 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Penn is now free to turn his attention to aiding McCain's quest for the White House unfettered and open the pathway for Clinton to fulfill her destiny as McCain's Vice Presisent.
April 7, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
From the Been Obvious for Months Dept
Roger Simon
http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=2B1AEBEF-3048-5C12-0074D4AF8CF7B8BB
April 7, 2008 9:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
When Mike Huckabee tried to play this game, the media collectively laughed their asses off.
April 7, 2008 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Trials and Travails of the Tuzla Terror: HRC Columbian Connections Don't End with Penn
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9433.html
What a disaster the Clintons2008 have been
April 7, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have a better understanding of the anger of folks like Grunwald and Ickes now. It seems that Penn was more interested in running a republican-lite campaign then the rest of the crew. Focusing on "experience" and "leadership" is simply not a winning combination for a junior Senator with less than 8 years in public office. If Hillary were to secure the nomination, she'd be fodder for McCain on those points.
Besides, we all know that Hillary's greatest vulnerability is that she comes off as robotic. Humanizing her would have benefited her greatly. But any value of Penn's departure, such as it is, is a day late and a dollar short. The polls in PA are tightening dramatically, NC is looking like an Obama blow-out, and Obama is going to do a bus tour in IN which should boost his standing in the working class regions of that state. Any attempts to change the narrative at this point wouldn't have an opportunity to succeed. It's like planting your tomatoes a week before the first frost.
April 7, 2008 10:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Mr. Penn, care to comment on the fact Obama still managed to win Texas despite your underhan...er, cunning strategy?"
"Bo shuda! Bring me Solo and the Wookiee. They will all suffer for this outrage!"
April 7, 2008 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Led on China and free trade? WTF? Saying Bush shouldn't go to the opening ceremonies and sorta, kinda not really firing her chief campaign strategist who is a a DC shill in the biz of not only selling us out but killing anyone who wants to organize working people in the third goddam world is "leading"? Thanks but no thanks, that's not the kind of leadership we're looking for. If you want someone like that vote for the real Republican.
April 7, 2008 11:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is EXCELLENT NEWS!
FOR HILLARY!
~
April 7, 2008 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, the negativity should be all Obama's and his pals in the media! He deserves it!
And Lord knows, he's run the most negative primary election in living memory. Oh, yeah, except for McCain's black baby. I guess venom is okay as long as you're the ones spitting it out.
Does Obama actually have any policies?
April 8, 2008 12:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
That didn't even make sense as sarcasm, let alone trolling.
April 8, 2008 1:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry, dudes, it's right. Obama's campaign is living on race-baiting. Like that accusation of the Clinton campaign circulating that Kenyan picture, on the word of Drudge! If his campaign handlers couldn't raise race all the time, since New Hampshire, would there be a campaign there at all? What's his policy on anything?
Hi Swift63. After you're finished shouting "Get offa my lawn, you obama-lovers", can I assume you will join the rethuglican party and trouble us no more?
Tanx in advance, dood.
~
April 8, 2008 12:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I find it amusing that after so many months of campaigning Clinton's strategists are still trying to "humanize" her. The taming of the Hilldebeast is an onerous task.
April 8, 2008 2:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Through your distorted lens it may be quite difficult for you to see and appreciate that Senator Clinton is actually human, hence your referral to her as a "Hilldebeast" (which is admittedly moderate compared with how even the MSM characterizes her). There's a true herd mentality (and dare I say 'virtual gang rape') that has formed on this blog and elsewhere. It's like a little support network for like narrow-minded Senator Obama supporters who prefer to denigrate Clinton than to build up their own candidate through a rigorous discussion of his experience and policies. Let me guess: You're one of the many who feel that Clinton's refusal to abandon the nomination process and her lobbying for full and fair elections in MI and FL are damaging to Democrats and our chances in November?
Let me encourage you and your support buddies, like TooBubba (who wonders how much more crap Clinton supporters are going to swallow before they finally gag, throw up and come to their senses), to consider the damage that your puerile approach is doing to the party. It's this collective conduct from many Obama supporters, not Clinton's lifetime commitment to public service, that makes me and many other Democrats sick.
For those in the self-congratulatory mood of trying to remind yourselves that Obama technically won Texas, let's not forget that Clinton won the popular vote. Let's also not forget that our two candidates are separated narrowly in the national popular tally. Senator Obama's unifying skills will surely be put to the test, as he tries to repair the damage that many of his own supporters have caused.
April 8, 2008 7:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is with great relief that the Clinton campaign has finally found its scapegoat. Somehow we all knew that the historic defeat would not fall on the shoulders of the inevitable candidate.
For months now the Clinton campaign has been positioning potential prospects to blame for Hillary Clinton's eventual loss. Howard Dean appeared to be a favorite choice, and Bill Clinton seemed to be a natural. Barack Obama was always an option, but the inconvenient truths of being out-hustled and out-campaigned were unfortunate reminders of Hillary Clinton's inadequacies as a candidate. And then there were always the old reliables of the media, the right-wing conspiracy, the left-wing conspiracy and activist bloggers.
While Mark Penn has become everyone's favorite villain, democrats owe him a debt of gratitude. Penn gives the Clinton campaign an ideal scapegoat to be blamed for every political misstep of the campaign, allowing Hillary Clinton to walk away from the campaign without bearing responsibility for her defeat. More importantly, Penn provides Clinton supporters a target to vent their anger and frustration for losing the nomination. It will be much easier to draw those supporters into the Obama camp now that Penn, rather than Obama, is seen as the villain.
April 8, 2008 2:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wish to comment on a related opinion piece from a couple of days back on TPM for which I believe comments are not being taken. The piece asked whether Penn has been removed or just "gelded." I heard it from two women and was pointed to a couple of web sites where posters discussed the use of "gelded" as reflecting and feeding a nasty impression of Ms Clinton as a "castrating bitch" to put it bluntly. I am not suggesting that there was overt misogyny here, but when you look at media coverage of Ms Clinton's campaign, the more overt sexism of some (quite calculated in some cases, I take it) and the subtle recurrence of such themes in non-negative accounts and commentaries, it seems clear that the "background noise of culture" is tilted against Ms. Clinton's campaign.
April 8, 2008 9:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oldradus, thank you for your astute comment. The overt misogyny in political coverage here and in the MSM is astounding and disheartening. I think what so many of my peers find surprising is that it's coming from within our own "progressive" community. We're used to it from the Republican attack machine; it's quite another when members of our own community find it acceptable and affirming to spout off their blind rage and point it at Senator Clinton.
April 8, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink