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Hillary: Wright Would Have Been Intolerable To Me Because Of 9/11
Asked about Obama's pastor, Jeremiah Wright, Hillary slips a reference to the fact that the 9/11 attackers hit "my city" into her critique....
Obviously, one's choice of church and pastor is rooted in what one believes is what you're seeking in church, and what kind of fellowship you find in church.But I have to say that for pastor wright to have given his first sermon after 9/11, and to have blamed the United States for the attack, which happened in my city of New York, would have been just intolerable for me. And therefore I would have not been able to stay in the church.
A bit later comes her claim that Wright's a legit topic, as well as a reference to Farrakhan and Hamas...
As leaders we have a choice of who we associate with, and who we apparently give some kind of seal of approval to. And I think that it wasn't only the specific remarks, but the relationship with Rev. Farrakhan, with giving the church bulleting over to the leader of Hamas to put a message in. These are problems, and they raise questions in people's minds. This is a legitimate area, as everything is when we run for office, for people to be exploring, and trying to find answers.
That's a lot of buttons pushed in a few short moments.
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So the quotes I'm seeing so far from this debate are Clinton talking about Wright, Clinton talking about Obama's "elitism"...
Clinton had a chance to say anything about herself yet?
April 16, 2008 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
She doesn't have to say anything nasty, ABC is doing it all for her. Well, she adds a few herself, but it just makes her look fake.
April 16, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
And, the new buttons are?
April 16, 2008 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Worst Debate EVER
April 16, 2008 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Worst debate ever....for BARACK OBAMA :)
April 16, 2008 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
It wasn't that bad. He got hammered and he came through it just fine. And he's using it against them on the campaign trail to make his case that he's above this sort of politics. Meanwhile, nasty old Hillary continues to drag the conversation into the mud. She's not helping herself. She's only helping the Republicans. Which is OK with her because, as many have long suspected, she's about as much a Democrat as Joe Lieberman.
April 20, 2008 8:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama: “I haven’t commented on Bosnia” But your campaign has. “Yes, sure.”
He playing around with the definition of is in nuancing. Unless he is suggesting he isn’t in control of his campaign, then is he lying.
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 16, 2008 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
More fiction form the fevered mind of resident white supremacist Matthew Weaver.
April 16, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Matthew-
I am curious- first do you consider yourself to be a progressive?
Have you actually gone to any direct sources to read about Obama?
I am all for partisan enthusiasm but what is the point in demonizing a fellow democratic candidate.
Hillary had every advantage imaginable-think "this will be over after Super Tuesday-and Obama ahead because he is simply better at this game than she is. If a neutral party examines both campaigns, which surely are the largest executive operation either of them have ever tackled, Obama is heads and shoulders better than Hillary. But that is no reason to turn on Obama with such vitriol.
Unless you are actually a Republican playing games here-which I have no problem with-you must see that we cannot allow McCain to win in November.
Unless of course you want to make Scalia the majority voice of the Supreme Court-but if that is the case then what are you doing supporting Hillary?
April 17, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Matthew, consider this: the reason the Republicans went after Bill Clinton was not because he was a Democrat (because he never really was). The reason they went after him was because he was co-opting their message and stealing their constituency.
Bill Clinton's strategy was to push the left to the center and push those who wouldn't go along out the door. That's what Hillary is doing as well. She attacks MoveOn--an organization that was formed specifically to support her husband during his impeachment--and rails on their activism. And why? Because they have the unmitigated temerity to support the liberal in this race instead of supporting the Republicrat.
April 20, 2008 9:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
She's already been acting like a Republican for several months. Why not bask in the 9iu11iani?
April 16, 2008 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
disgusted
April 16, 2008 8:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
it is disgusting. especially since the Clintons thought enough of Wright to include him in their prayer thingie when Clinton was going through the Lewinsky scandal.
April 16, 2008 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good lord - does anyone else feel as slimey watching this debate as I do? It is like watching National Enquirer TV.
April 16, 2008 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with you.
April 16, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, it's bad. Obama isn't hitting back very hard. I guess he doesn't feel he needs to, or something. I wish he had some more fight in him, he seems a little deflated :(
April 16, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Its because Obama is a wimp. Major wimp. He doesn't have what it takes to stand up to republicans. In fact neither do his Obamanuts. Since the debate Obamanuts sound like the Whiner Family on the once great SNL.
April 20, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
God this is killing me. Obama has more patience than I do! She's standing there like the kid who ate the canary. She attacks and smears and he won't. Even after she admitted she lied!! Of course then she rationalized it.
April 16, 2008 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
WTF IS WITH THESE QUESTIONS??
1. Why do you look down on PA voters so much?
2. Why do you support Rev. Wright?
3. Why do you hate America and not wear a flag pin?
ABC is worthless.
April 16, 2008 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Honestly, the intellectual level in this debate is the lowest I can remember. Does ABC really think they're going to glean ANYTHING new from these questions? Media at its worst.
April 16, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
We did get a chance to hear the famous Hillary cackle!
April 16, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
OMFG he asked about Ayers, that was the question he got from Sean Hannity! WTF??!
4. Why do you hang out with terrorists?
April 16, 2008 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
They gave Obama a platform to bash Clinton on Bosnia, and he used it to try to move onto actual issues. They then moved right onto asking about his patriotism.
There needs to be NO MORE DEBATES. All ABC is looking for is a scrum. Ridiculous.
April 16, 2008 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
WORST DEBATE EVER. (And it's not even Hillary I'm that makes me sick this time)
Just had to turn it off.
George & Charlie are even WORSE than Wolf Blizter. I didn't even know that was possible.
April 16, 2008 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed! And worse than Tim Russert, too. At least Obama is challening them -- and by extension the news media -- to stop focusing on bullshit and actually talk about substance.
April 16, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Running mates, Reverend Wright, "bitter" working class people, the Bosnia lie, and the flag lapel pin. Will these bozos ask even one substantial question before this pig circus is over?
April 16, 2008 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
wow ABC is really living up to their pro Hillary bias.
April 16, 2008 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
First time I've heard Ayres coming up anywhere--don't defend him, Obama!!
April 16, 2008 8:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
40 minutes in and we've covered Bitter, Wright, the Lapel Pin, and now Obama's "relationship" with the Weatherman. I'm waiting for the Marxist question.
April 16, 2008 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is horrid. I'll only be reading live blogs from here on out. It's like Chris Matthews' brain went wild and invaded ABC.
April 16, 2008 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jesus Christ, Clinton goes back to 911. She's turned into Ms. Guilliani.
April 16, 2008 8:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ms. Cheney, more like.
April 16, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you are so goddamn aghast at the mere thought that the almighty, unerring United States of Amuurricka could in some way have been a part of creating the environment that ended up causing the 9/11, you cannot be President.
I say it heartfelt: fuck you, Hillary Clinton, and your stupid, insane sense of superiority.
April 16, 2008 8:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
So how do you really feel? ;-)
I have to say I agree with you.
April 16, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
yes yes the REPUBLICANS are going to raise the question not Hillary, she would never raise it, but she will raise the question that the GOP are going to raise the question.
April 16, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is talking BS about Ayers. Says relationship is not relevant. Yet, he joined Ayers for a fundraiser for his campaign at Ayers home. That's more than just a neighbor and suggests some acceptance of the guy's values and reputation, in this case as a unrepentant terrorist.
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 16, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
So how do you feel about the Clinton pardons, then? Or Clinton and FALN for that matter?
I really hope you're not passing this garbage on to those two kids.
April 16, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton id not pardon Ayers and his wife so what's the point?
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 16, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Riiiight. Because Ayers and Dohrn are somehow much worse than the rest of their organization.
Newsflash: As noted downthread, the only people harmed by the Weathermen were three of its own members.
So, you're full of it.
But, anyway, as my old employer was wont to say, don't waste time wrestling with a pig. You just get dirty and the pig loves it. So, enjoy the debate!
April 16, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh Please. Ayers is not Obama's friend. Bill Clinton pardoned two of these folks.
From the Washington Post blog:
Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous.
April 16, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
He didn't go to a fundraiser, he was meeting with constituents with the person his predecessor.
I'd be more concerned about Bill pardoning them.
I rather enjoyed not having your idiotic comments on here for the last few days.
April 16, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
The fundraiser was 1996. Ayers' outrageous remarks rationalizing his past activities rather than expressing regret and remorse were printed literally hours before the attacks of 9/11/01.
So how was Obama to know?
April 20, 2008 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to burn this silly bitch in effigy before this primary is over.
My god.
April 16, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Barack Hussein Obama hearts Marxist terrorists.
Nice job, ABC, and nice job Shrillary.
April 16, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is so pathetic. I think I need a shower.
April 16, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's think of other questions they could ask:
Do you believe in angels?
Is America a good place?
We've heard you eat babies. Is that true?
April 16, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm surprised at reactions in the blog here. It is about time that we have some serious debate questions of both candidates. This is finally a substantive debate. Kudos to George!
Matthew
http://www.TheIndependentView.com
April 16, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
These are questions that appeal to people that can't think.
April 16, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
This isn't substantive. They haven't had one policy-oriented question yet.
April 16, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
"substantive debate"???
Are you serious? I haven't caught note anywhere of a policy-related question yet.
April 16, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah. Right. I'd love to hear more about that stash of money in the Caymans and Bill's dealings with central asian potentates and the likes. But since 'George' is a chartered member of the famiglia...
April 16, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I weep for your children.
April 16, 2008 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Leave it to the white supremacist to think that "have you stopped beating your wife?" questions are serious questions about the issues we as a nation face and are at all relevant to the suitability of either Clinton of Obama to be elected president.
You are pure comedy gold (polished of course) if nothing else.
April 16, 2008 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Matthew, that word does not mean what you think it means.
April 16, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jeebus, not sure if I'm lucky or not missing the big TV debate right now. Sounds horrible
April 16, 2008 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's honestly, and I'm not joking one bit, the worst, most sensationalistic and issueless debate I've ever witnessed. If Access Hollywood held a Presidential debate, these are the questions they'd ask. The moderators are blatantly trying to start a food fight.
And Hillary is loving every minute of it.
April 16, 2008 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is IT! I cannot and will not vote for this lady!!
April 16, 2008 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
yes iam so sorry senator Clinton it seems weve spent all our time attacking Obama over jack shit. 50 mins down and we have yet to hear ONE question on a real issue.
April 16, 2008 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
She is just hell bent to piss off as many Democrats as possible and she's succeeding and the Republicans are not going to elect her -
I swear to god, she wants to be McCain's running mate - for real -
April 16, 2008 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quote: "Yet, he joined Ayers for a fundraiser for his campaign at Ayers home. That's more than just a neighbor and suggests some acceptance of the guy's values and reputation, in this case as a unrepentant terrorist."
Good grief. I hope you aren't operating any heavy machinery. You could hurt yourself.
April 16, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
So it's scorched earth then, Hillary?
April 16, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Our long national nightmare of Hillary will soon be over.
April 16, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bill Clinton pardoned two members of the Weather Underground! How's that for a connection.
Bam! Now that's what I'm talkin' about, Hillary!
April 16, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is fun... but won't help either candidates' negatives as they are sure to rise. Obama should have disowned that terrorist, that one may come back to haunt him. Fox will be on it.
April 16, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
April 20, 2008 8:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
She and her husband can pardon Ayers associates, but Obama has a casual relationship with this guy and this is the news?
April 16, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Weaver ought to be wanting Obama to get the nomination since he's convinced he can't win. I should think Weaver would be relishing that humiliation.
April 16, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I too am missing this and that seems to have been a wise choice. Have they asked him about his poor judgment in choosing a black father? Isn't that what it's all about?
April 16, 2008 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary said she would've left the nursery.
April 16, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not yet but I am sure it going to come up soon.
Maybe next they will link him to Al Capone - you know he lived in Chicago too.
April 16, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
OMFG! Ayers?????????
National Enquirer TV indeed.
Obama had a really good comeback but geez did Hillary PAY ABC for this?????
April 16, 2008 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
My (Republican) husband actually thought Obama's answer to the Ayres question was a good one.
April 16, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. It was. He finally said "enough of this bullshit."
April 16, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
What was his answer (stuck in office with out television for the next hour)
April 16, 2008 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't have the full quote, but the gist was that somehow anyone he's ever had any relationship with, no matter how flimsy, he has to somehow answer for is ridiculous. He pointed out that he is good friends with a senior Republican senator who had said that he thinks abortion doctors should get the death penalty and he asked George if he needed to reject that statement too. He had had enough.
April 16, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks.
April 16, 2008 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
It was pretty solid. He didn't get angry, but he definitely called out Stephanapolous. Something like "am I really supposed to apologize because I know someone who did something 40 years ago, WHEN I WAS 8? You know, I know Tom Coburn, too, and we're friendly, and he's a congressman. He said doctors who commit abortions should be assassinated. Should I apologize for that, too?"
Paraphrasing, but it was actually pretty solid.
April 16, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks.
April 16, 2008 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your answer is more coherent. I was typing too fast.
April 16, 2008 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
My pleasure. Google it tomorrow -- it's a pretty good quote. The stupidity appears to have stopped for the moment.
April 16, 2008 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Last part:
The fact is that I'm also friendly with Tom Coburn, one of the most conservative Republicans in the United States Senate, who during his campaign once said that it might be appropriate to apply the death penalty to those who carried about abortions. Do I need to apologize for Mr. Coburn's statements?
April 16, 2008 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
"There's only three things he mentions in a sentence: a noun, and a verb and 9/11," Biden said of Giuliani.
Hillary is really getting pathetic, will she withdraw on a jet flight?
April 16, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fuck this debate. Back to the Red Sox game.
April 16, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gah! 7-3 Yankees. I'm going for a run.
April 16, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just make her go away. Please.
April 16, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama pushes for substantive talk and they ask why he's not wearing the $2.99 made in China lapel pin. OMG!
April 16, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
poor bull
and why Obama should not have agreed to this.
these hacks are told to atack obama for their corporate owners who will do anything to stop Obama.
this is a debate?
no its just an assault on Obama
April 16, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
WTF?!?!?!? WORST DEBATE EVER!!!
April 16, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
she just said that people were killed by the Weathermen. The only ones who died, as far as has been reported, were three members of the Weathermen organization itself, in an accidental explosion.
April 16, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like I said in the last thread, it's intellectual pugilism. I'm outraged...but at the same time, Obama is handling everything very well.
April 16, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I feel like I got my tinfoil hat on tonight, but this seems like such a set up. I can't believe that the questions will balance out in any way.
April 16, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think they're going to balance out the moderator treatment by hitting Hillary with a folding chair at the end.
April 16, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is entertaining, I'll admit, but it's failed on the policy front so far.
April 16, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I never thought I'd miss Russert.
April 16, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Best post tonight! You just won!
April 16, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Read through this thread and note who's praising this debate. That's the level of discourse we're dealing with.
April 16, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's about time some one ask him about his connection with this Ayers guy. I know MSNBC is going to go out defending the golden boy tomorrow, how dare ABC ask him such a question, how dare they, don't they know Obama don't get tough questions.
April 16, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Overall, this has been pretty painful to watch. Hillary started to raise her voice a bit when they called her on the Tuzla lie. Obama hit back strong about the whole Ayers/W.U. thing. But up until this point, they both are speaking in some weird, choppy kind of delivery. It's not a pleasant thing to see so far.
April 16, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes indeedy, Fox will be on it.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, etc.
April 16, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that this is the worst debate yet. Is this ABC or FOX News?
And weird timing, but fundraisers for the Democratic National Committee just called me. I told them that ALL of my political donations are going to Barack Obama. Once he gets the nomination, I'll start thinking about donating elsewhere, too.
The caller wasn't too happy about that. Too bad.
April 16, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
It had to happen. The weathermen thing. I expected McCain and the Repugs to bring it up. But I guess Shrillary couldn't pass up such a golden opportunity.
April 16, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad Obama got a chance to push back on that now to a national audience, though. He knocked it down right quick.
April 16, 2008 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Josh Marshall:
That gets it about right.
I understand the rage upthread. Condolences to everyone. But quite frankly, Hillary is so obviously smug and false, and the questions are so obviously skewed to the point of trying to scalp Barack, that I think there will be a profound backlash.
This is American politics at its worse. And it won't be Barack who will have to pay the reaper for this pathetic display.
April 16, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bingo. But the backlash is built in and ABC's hitman Jake Tapper spelled it out in his post-debate "analysis"- Obama didn't adequately address the issues raised by Hillary's relentless "whatever it takes" personal attacks on him. It's a two-fer for ABC corporate. Hillary is goaded by an almost sneering Gibson into pushing the character "questions" (the only traction she gets from the media) and is labeled as nasty while Obama gets smeared. I really don't understand the commenters here being surprised about ABC's RW leanings (I guess it wasn't as noticeable when Obama benefitted). But the Mickey Mouse channel has had this slant for years now. It's political coverage of the Dems, especially Tapper's, has been pure tabloid.
April 16, 2008 10:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm watching the Colbert rerun instead because I'm an elitist.
April 16, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, nice one, "So the surge is working, will you ruin everything by leaving?"
April 16, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I'm glad to see that the weighty obligation to moderate a debate on serious issues hasn't been lost on ABCffington Post. I mean, ABC News.
April 16, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now I remember why I never watch ABC News, Gibson, or Georgie Boy.
April 16, 2008 9:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, I never do either, and I guess this just reminds me why I find them an unsatisfying source for "news".
April 16, 2008 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
They gave Obama all the tough questions. This debate is atrocious and phony and Clinton is playing Tracy Flick.
April 16, 2008 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
i agree, but you have to concede that he is handling it well. he has gotten so much better in these debates since Iowa
April 16, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Will ABC walk away from this without any backlash?
April 16, 2008 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
only if we all let it go without complaining. let's all do something productive and find contact information and write some letters.
April 16, 2008 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
O, that's pretty easy for me to figure out. They've built up a hell of a lot of animosity toward each other in the last few weeks.
April 16, 2008 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Air America host is saying backlash against this debate will be huge.
April 16, 2008 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah the moderators went to far "for too long" when they look back that their performance as moderators and asked to grade themselves, I wonder if theur credibility will match that of the candidates?
Yeah Russert looked tame in comparison.
April 16, 2008 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks - with that gravatar, how can I help but believe you? :)
And yes this is the worst of American politics - the kind of shit Americans are sick to death of, too.
April 16, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
And yet she is acting like it's unbalanced in his favor--in fact she just said she "noticed" that!!
April 16, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
This debate is a joke and no one better dare defend Clinton to me in the next 24 hours or I'm going to hurt them.
However, I'm watching the focus group measures online and his responses are not doing poorly. Some of them are doing quite well.
But seriously, Hillary beating him about Ayers, a person who could not possibly be more meaningless in his life? How can any Democrat anywhere lift their head and defend her?
April 16, 2008 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary - "If someone like that lived in my neighborhood, I would walk out of that neighborhood."
April 16, 2008 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where do you find the online focus groups?
April 16, 2008 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's the link:
http://a.abclocal.go.com/wpvi/livemedia?section=news/politics&id=6083174
April 16, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks.
April 16, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tonight, HRC just crossed the republican threshold. She's firmly in Holy Joe territory now.
April 16, 2008 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
So glad I'm listening on radio instead of waiting for stupid ABC to show the debate "live" at 8 PDT. Anyway, how close to each other are they? Any priceless expressions?
April 16, 2008 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Early on Hillary was talking, I think saying she called Obama's bitter comments elitist, not Obama, and over her shoulder Obama is giving this sort of deadpan, "you've got to be fucking kidding me" look.
April 16, 2008 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a great debate, ABC is doing what MSNBC couldn't do, ask Obama tough questions. I wonder what is Chris Matthews feeling crawling up his legs now? Haha
April 16, 2008 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tough questions like "have you stopped beating your wife"...?
or
"Do you renounce and reject foreigners fathering black children here in America?"
Those kinda tough questions?
April 16, 2008 9:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
No you moron, and as a citizen born outside the US, I take exception to your idiotic remarks. Substantive question like please explain your connection with Ayers. Are you mad that ABC didn't pull an MSNBC and go on a Clinton bashing spree. Don't worry, Obamaman and Chris Matthews will sooth your ill and give you what you want tomorrrow - more hillary bashing.
April 16, 2008 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
liberal Historian - that is Bertrand Russell isn't it?
April 16, 2008 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
noun verb and 911 that makes 8!
April 16, 2008 9:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was hoping Obama would mention what the Woods fun was (that he served on the board of, along with Ayers):
"Woods Fund of Chicago is a grantmaking foundation whose goal is to increase opportunities for less advantaged people and communities in the metropolitan area"
http://www.woodsfund.org/about/mission
In other words, nothing to see here.
April 16, 2008 9:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes HTX...
April 16, 2008 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
April 16, 2008 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
alright, it's gotten a little bit better right now. finally.
April 16, 2008 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
[rolls eyes, very slowly]
Yes, she has to move into martyr/victim role - she always does - "they're picking on me!! Waaaaaaah!"
April 16, 2008 9:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
HillaryClinton.com plug #2
"on my website I've laid out how I will pay for everything"
Except your campaign.
April 16, 2008 9:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
She always fucking plugs her campaign. It's really pathetic.
April 16, 2008 9:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dammit. "Web site" not "campaign."
April 16, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do senior citizens get taxed on their Social Security benefits?
April 16, 2008 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
This entire episode is a f*cking joke. No wonder everyone skips voting in this country.
April 16, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very unpleasant and artificial tone in this debate. The worst yet. No more debates !
April 16, 2008 9:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg has a new thread up...
April 16, 2008 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like how during the capital gains tax question they had the cameras pan the audience to find white guys in suits. "Does that guy look rich? What about that guy? Zoom in on the guy in the tie and glasses."
What is this, high school public access tv?
April 16, 2008 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Opus Hussein X - No.'
But there used to be an argument going around that above a certain income, they should.
April 16, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry to rant, but this hits a little to close to home for me.
I have, lets call him a very close family member, who was a Harvard educated professor accused of having a "casual relationship" with the Weatherman. In reality he was the faculty sponsor of an anti-Vietnam student group at a small PA state school. So anyway, he was blacklisted by his dean and spent the next ten years unable to work. Naturally, his children had a more than casual relationship with food stamps.
So when I hear throwing these kind of accusations around like it's some game of 'gotcha' it makes me physically ill. You call yourselves democrats? You should be ashamed of yourselves.
No, seriously.
April 16, 2008 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
"So when I hear PEOPLE throwing these kind of accusations around..."
Whatev.
April 16, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm truly sorry about the personal destruction. Sadly, this is today's version of McCarthyism. We will look back one day in horror at what depths we have all sunken to to destroy innocent, good hearted fellow citizens.
It hurts terribly that the Dems are no better than the Republicans in this regard.
April 17, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Come on.
No one has done more for Reverend Wright than Barack Obama.
April 16, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can't push people's buttons if there is nothing to what you are saying. She did push a lot of buttons. Because there are a lot of buttons to push. She's right that people should think about and question Obama's association with Wright. Obama has acknowledged that fact himself by addressing it at length.
April 16, 2008 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
"You can't push people's buttons if there is nothing to what you are saying."
Otto F,
F*CK IT!!!! Even YOU, I bet someone who goes through the contents of YOUR ENTIRE LIFE from kindergarten will be able to dredge up at least a few hundred details, "hot buttons" in your words, a childhood friend who is now a felon, etc., to beat you relentlessly with. This is surely DISGUSTING to anyone with the faintest idea of fairness and justice, and you are justifying Limbaugh's methods.
Of course Hillary can't prove Obama's guilt-by-association, that's NOT the point for her. Her aim, like yours, is to REPEAT OVER AND OVER UNFOUNDED ALLEGATIONS, to saturate the media and blogosphere with this TOXIC GARBAGE, so that people who have no time to pay any attention will just make the MENTAL WORD ASSOCIATION - one set to one "demographic" - Obama, Muslims, Hussein, Terrorists, 9/11, Angry Black Guy, Wright, FlagPin, another set of words - Elite Snob, Empty Suit, False Hope, Rezko, JUST TO TAKE THE GUY DOWN.
It is NOTHING to do with Reason or Truth - it is SLANDER to plant tiny seeds of doubt in voters' minds and it works, boy, it works, as you have witnessed with Gore and Kerry.
You and your fellow Hillary supporters are intelligent enough to know how abomninable this TACTIC is, what this has COST the country, and you know that Hillary is opening the door for the election season when the Repubs are going to use the same tactics to PERVERT the political process against the eventual nominee, yet you can HOLD BACK YOUR CONSCIENCE to justify this.
Yes, IT WILL WORK. UNLESS US ANGRY DEMS DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. It is much easier to destroy than to rebuild trust in Obama. it is much easier to tar and make these unfounded word associations in peoples' mind than to undo the damage.
April 17, 2008 12:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Qwerdy;
Actually I read the polls tonight before the debate and Obama actually GAINED one point nationally since the bitter BS started. And once again, Hillary's negatives went up!
And her "trustworthiness" rating went DOWN.
So fortunately, all this BS is not hurting Obama.
Despite what other partisans have to say, people are seeing in Obama what many of us see-an honest man of character and dignity, while at the same time Hillary is turning herself into a cartoon.
Go get em Annie Oakley!! haha
April 17, 2008 12:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just want to put a STOP to this type of political campaigning. It's hard to tell if Bittergate didn't hurt Obama as he was steadily eroding her lead and the polls showed a stop in his momentum. I'm also considering actions that we can all take to show that "We're Mad As Hell and Won't Take This Anymore" about the Rovian tactics. This is with the long-term perspective in mind of how this hurts tyhe country. We will NEVER elect an honest politician again if this continues, and who knows many more Siegelmans will be put away.
I don't know what it entails, a stricter law for politicians against libel and slander? Right now, there are no laws punishing the two most corrupt segments of our society, Wall St and Washington. Of course the-powers-that-be won't enact legislation to hold themselves back, but this is a fight we need to take.
We will end up with no decent men in office to look out for our interest if we let this go.
April 17, 2008 1:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Various right-wing groups were ALWAYS going to use harsh attack tactics against the Democratic nominee. And when they do this against Obama, it will have nothing to do with Hillary. They don't need her to show them how to play hardball politics. It is ignorant of you to say that Hillary opened the door for them. They were going to kick it down anyway.
And after you've seen their attacks on him, this Obama-Clinton race will seem like a tea party by comparison.
April 17, 2008 8:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Stay classy, Hill!
April 16, 2008 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did everyone see Senator Obama FINALLY disown Revered Wright? Only took two months.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHjFxJVeCQs
April 16, 2008 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now, he disowned the comments, not the Reverend, the comments.
Though he didn't stipulate which comments- the ones in the RS article or the ones he heard (or didn't hear) in church or the ones he heard about before before announcing his run or the ones he heard about a few months before the videos or the ones in the videos...
Really, though, the first half of this debate at least was just trash.
April 16, 2008 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary has no plan to make The Social Security Trust Fund solvent. Her answer was: " I am sure that we will figure out a way to save it". Ready on day one, My Arse!
April 16, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe her response was to return to fiscal responsibilty and the "social security lockbox" which was looted by GWB. That will buy time to come to common ground on a way forward. There is no need to raise the payroll tax immediately. The one time Obama decides to get specific on his plan and his solution is regressive.
April 16, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I realize that you are blinded by your dislike for Obama, but his proposal to apply payroll taxes to people above the present cap is NOT a regressive tax - it is a proportional tax.
There will be no additional tax burden on those with lower incomes - only an equal and proportional burden on those with higher incomes.
Get your facts straight.
April 20, 2008 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
She looked up and saw a moment of light and decided to throw a boilermaker, everything she's got in one punch. She's a fighter, you know. She looked small.
While the debate was a draw, maybe even a mild win for Hillary, she had a chance to elevate the conversation, to support Obama and cover his back, as he repeatedly did for her, not getting into Tuzla and being understanding about why Hillary said it. He covered her *ss! And then she just repeatedly tried to stick in and twist her little knives. Sad, really.
I thought she did well in speaking to Pennsylvanians, and focusing comments on the cops, firefighters, teachers, etc. Still, she conveyed pettiness. And she is very intelligent and knowledgable. But add the attack personality to all the drama and finagleing we're sure to see, and I give the race to Obama.
George St...was absolutely terrible and far more petty than Hillary. Very disappointing. Complete absence of any insight. More garbage. Not great newmen.
April 16, 2008 10:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
You gotta be F'in kidding me. I should be held responsible for everyone I know? Or everyone I look up to?
This is such utter crap. You must live a mighty shallow existence to not know anyone who has said things that you MIGHTILY disagree with. This does not mean you throw them under the bus.
But who knows. Maybe you spend most of your life in your parent's basement eating cheese flavored products. Or hanging with people who agree with you 100% of the time.
Or, as I'm guessing, not hanging with anyone at all.
April 16, 2008 10:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
CALLING ALL FELLOW OBAMA SUPPORTERS:
Last night I came to the conclusion that it will be up to us to counter the Republican 527 adds (Swift Boats) if the Democratic party is not up to the task.
And the attacks have to come from the party or us-NOT Obama. He has to stay clean while we do this awful dirty work for him. Kerry's swift Boating proved that these sordid attacks cannot be ignored.
I really believe we can make the difference when the Repubs start coming after Obama and Michelle.
But lets start now!
Who knows how to get in touch with anyone associated with a 527 organization. I think if we could run this "Screw em" piece on video from now until the primary next Tuesday we just might be able to finish Hillary off. If Obama could beat her in Pa this would be over!
I REALLY HOPE SOMEONE CAN RESPOND TO THIS!
April 17, 2008 12:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
"He has to stay clean while we do this awful dirty work for him."
As if Obama supporters haven't been doing this all along?
"I think if we could run this "Screw em" piece on video from now until the primary next Tuesday we just might be able to finish Hillary off."
Speaks for itself.
April 17, 2008 12:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don;
I agree it IS disgusting. But unfortunately it is what works for most voters.
There is not a single pollster, Left, Right or Center who does not concede that Kerry's non-response to the Swift Boaters cost the 2004 election.
And I am not talking about making anything up. Hillary has done all in her power to make the bitter comment into bittergate.
So the fact that she actually said "screw em" when talking about the very working class (Southern) voters that she criticized Obama for being an elitist is relevant.
Obama is not the one running a slash and burn campaign-and Hillary's partisans are the only ones who cannot see that she IS running such a campaign.
So I say fight fire with truth that is also fire!
Go Obama!
April 20, 2008 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I do think that ANYTHING Hillary says is fair game. I'll sign on!
April 17, 2008 8:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's not as if we're digging up dirt on Hillary's grandmother, parents, pastors, etc. like she's doing with Obama, her own words are always fair game. I'm thinking we should seriously look into the story of her subverting the course of justice while working on the Impeachment of Nixon during Watergate.
April 17, 2008 8:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
moveon.org
April 20, 2008 8:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Reverend Wright is a racist pig and Obama will pay in the GE (if he gets that far, hope not) for his association with the anti-American, AIDS government distributed, white America rants by his pastor for the past 20 years.
April 17, 2008 7:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
You ever heard of the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment?
April 20, 2008 8:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hilary says she would not have stayed in the church, but she and Bill had no problem associating themselves with a racist nutcase like J. William Fulbright
April 17, 2008 8:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
I missed the debate, but I managed to catch this part on Morning Joe. I don't think I've ever seen a more sanctimonious performance than the one put on by Hillary.
"My city." That about says it all.
April 17, 2008 9:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clearly, she doesn't understand the nature of this war of cultures. Reverend Wright correctly pointed out that our policies and actions in the world are viewed as intolerable by many in the Arab world. As long as the U.S. continues to support Israel at the expense of the Palestinian people, we will be continue to be a target for Arab rage.
It's pretty simple, really. I wonder if Hillary really doesn't understand, or if she's only pretending to be this naively ignorant.
April 20, 2008 8:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
A person has to be a totally blind, Obamanut to not see the truths of what Senator Clinton says! I don't care what Obama says. For him to continue to sit in a church that gives voice to that terrorist loving farrakan and that terrorist group hamas that kills innocent women and children by blowing them up with explosives laden with nails and steel balls, its disgusting. Obama is a terrorist by association and if he wasn't he would have left the church. Obama didn't leave because his ears were tickled by the preaching and I don't want him in the WH. One religious nut in the WH was enough.
April 20, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh and btw, screw moveon.org. Right now I'm giving you the mental finger. The radical leftwing of the Democratic Party is raising its ugly head and it ain't pretty if Obama is their boy. He loses against a republican. Hillary will bitchslap em and years later they'll be wiping their cheeks. Obama will draw them close to give em a Obamakiss and they'll push the knife into his and by extension the Democratic Party's back.
April 20, 2008 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh and let me leave you with some relevent reading material
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-0704030881apr04,0,6468332.story
April 20, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink