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Hillary Jokes About Bosnia Misstatement On Jay Leno
Hillary kicked off her appearance yesterday on The Tonight Show with a joke about the Bosnia gaffe that has caused her a lot of trouble in the polls lately: "I was worried I wasn't going to make it. I was pinned down by sniper fire at the Burbank airport."
After getting the joke out of the way, she then explained the gaffe as having been a case of faulty memory due to her grueling campaign schedule.
Here's a YouTube of her appearance:
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"I was worried I wasn't going to make it. I was pinned down by sniper fire at the Burbank airport."
Haha, it's funny how I lied, isn't it?
I feel like this joke would've been a lot funnier coming out of another candidate's mouth.
April 4, 2008 9:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
"No WMD here!"
That's all I can think about when I heard that she actually joked about this.
Tacky and craven to the end. The Clinton's are so classy.
April 4, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's just because you're filled with Clinton hate.
I thought it was actually pretty funny - she got caught out in an odd lie that wasn't really relevent to her campaign (odd, because she described the incident properly in her book). Making fun of herself was the right thing to do.
This whole Bosnia debacle says no more about her as a candidate, in my opinion, than it says about Obama when he claims civil rights demonstration led to his conception, even though they occurred *after* he was born.
April 4, 2008 11:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
"That's just because you're filled with Clinton hate.
"I thought it was actually pretty funny - she got caught out in an odd lie that wasn't really relevent to her campaign
~
Yeah! It must be the HATE!!!. Her foreign policy experience in Bosnia and with N .Ireland have no relevance at all... This is all just a bundle of monkey laughs! Means nothing at all!!!
HRC: ALL my considerable experience in life which makes me the right person to become president of the USA... None of it means nothing!!! LOL. YEAH!!! NIPPLE squeezing good times!!!
and any mistakes I made, and lies I told should just be ignored.... or forgotten......... and the press should be ashamed of bringing any of it up, ever. ASHAMED!!!
April 4, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
"That's just because you're filled with Clinton hate.
"I thought it was actually pretty funny - she got caught out in an odd lie that wasn't really relevent to her campaign
~
Yeah! It must be the HATE!!!. Her foreign policy experience in Bosnia and with N .Ireland have no relevance at all... This is all just a bundle of monkey laughs! Means nothing at all!!!
HRC: ALL my considerable experience in life which makes me the right person to become president of the USA... None of it means nothing!!! LOL. YEAH!!! NIPPLE squeezing good times!!!
and any mistakes I made, and lies I told should just be ignored.... or forgotten......... and the press should be ashamed of bringing any of it up, ever. ASHAMED!!!
April 4, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely despicable.
Lie=mismatch of words and actions
April 4, 2008 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you've EVER been under sniper fire I'm sure YOU'D remember it well. You wouldn't MAKEUP A STORY about it.
Hillary's making fun of this GETTING CAUGHT IN A LIE story, is like Bush making fun of his Mission Accomplished sign on the USS ship after invading Iraq.
The both have serious implications.
April 4, 2008 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Classy! Er, I mean, Classless!
Did this remind anyone else of the time Bush joked about looking for missing WMDs in the Oval Office?
Do these politicians have ANY connection to the real world?
April 4, 2008 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
billysumday,
Sorry - didn't see your ref before i posted the same essentials below. (sumday a Grandaddy ref?)
I'm not sure if it's that they have no connection to reality so much as that they think we don't.
April 4, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Big Laughs. McCain would shred her and her fake sniper fire story - and rightly so. The only thing worse than lying about being under sniper fire is making a joke about it on the Tonight Show couch.
April 4, 2008 9:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
she even lies about the lie covering the lie ... who honestly wants an administration that will do this every single day????
April 4, 2008 9:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
This was a good appearance and showed a relaxed, in control, and very human Hillary Clinton. She really does well in these settings and Leno was, as always, a gracious host. I was surprised at the length of her on-air visit.
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 4, 2008 9:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Still, you can argue she's hurting herself drawing the Bosnia story out for another day. Also, her excuse is still pretty flimsy so I'm surprised she'd jump at a chance to repeat it.
April 4, 2008 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, she is poking fun at herself and disarming critics. There was no upside to trying to defend her statements. Much better route for a story that will be repeated.
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 4, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, Matthew. I was callous and crass, and utterly disrespectful to the American families who have lost loved ones to sniper fire. Hillary's faux "heroism" is an insult to every soldier who has actually served in a war zone.
April 4, 2008 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Haha! I meant "it"--not "I", of course. Like my new avatar, poodle-boy?
April 4, 2008 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
hey Weaver! I think the avatar you are looking for has a rifle scope bullseye over Obama's head, something like this. That would more accurately portray your racial animosity. And if you got it up today, on the anniversary of King's assassination, it'd be all the more relevant.
April 4, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Matthew Weaver IS NOT A RACIST. He's just exceptionally proud to be white.
April 4, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am. A Hillary supporting. Robot. Everything. The queen does. Is Excellent!
April 4, 2008 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
I love your Bushbot skit. You do true believer convincingly.
April 4, 2008 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Matthew Weaver and Hillary Rambo Clinton have now being reduced to pointing out how on occasion she can actually seem human. That was the spin that Hillary gave to her sarcastic admission that she had told a Huge Fairy Tale about the Bosnia Snipers.
Hillary's 35 years experience, and working hard for the American people, has now been reduced to: Well, you know, if you look really hard, you might on occasion see some signs that she has some human qualities. Be still my heart!
April 4, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Better keep an eye on your bandwidth stats, Matt--I'm sure your post will generate millions of hits.
April 4, 2008 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nice avatar, dude. Really expresses your inner Republican.
April 4, 2008 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
...or inner racist. why he didn't just go with something like the PE logo is beyond me
April 4, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Misstatement" is a pretty extreme mischaracterization. You do not have to be their PR firm.
With that asside I do have to say that these appearances make her appear more human and understanding of the situation, and at the same time (to me) even less likable. She has this kind of "its all a game and I got caught" attitude. I do appreciate when politicians have a sense of humor, but when it is about how they were caught in an exagerated lie, it just gives the impression that they couldn't care less about the truth or their own integrity.
April 4, 2008 9:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
It was one of Hillary's many Bush/Cheney moments. Bush appears on the deck of an aircraft carrier in a flight suit and jokes about missing weapons of mass destruction after sending our troops off to die on the basis of a lie about those weapons. Cheney replies "So?" or "Go fuck yourself" when challenged on the facts. And Hillary lies about getting shot at by snipers in a war zone, while many good Americans are actually get shot at by snipers in a war zone. Hilarious, Hillary. Just fuckin' hilarious.
April 4, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
And she expects us to believe that if she has memory problems when stressed by a campaign, she would be ready on day 1..... day 21, etc?
Either she gets memory problems when stressed, which is not good, or she makes things up, which is also not good.
Take your pick. Either way, is this "readiness" to lead?
April 4, 2008 9:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hear her joking: Oh, yeah.... I forgot about that 3 am phone call.... cuz I was under stress!
♪♪♪
April 4, 2008 9:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are the WMDs under here? (Cue chair cushion lift, hold silent to wait for raucous crowd laughter)
Well played, Madame Senator. Well played.
April 4, 2008 9:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Kind of reminds me of Bush's "Now where are those WMDs? Maybe under the couch?"
April 4, 2008 9:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
This was in really bad taste. We are a nation at war and our brave military men and women are putting their lives on the line everyday. She is a presidential candidate making jokes about coming under sniper fire. Ugggg!
Not only that but she says she mixed up her war zones. When has Hillary Clinton come under sniper fire in a war zone. What other war zone has she visited? Saying she mixed up her war zones implies that she has indeed come under sniper fire in war zone just not Bosnia. Where did it happen?
Extremely disturbing!
April 4, 2008 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe it was a dream?
MLK and Obama have dreams of peace. Maybe she dreams of war?
April 4, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
I was wondering if anyone else noticed that, when she makes excuses, "I've visited 80 countries, lots of war zones" WTF? Did she just "misspeak" again? What other war zones did she visit where she was dodging sniper fire?
April 5, 2008 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, I missed this - did someone die because of her statement?
April 4, 2008 9:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did you hear that folks? No criticism can be leveled of any candidates unless someone died as a result of their actions/statements.
Glad we got that one figured out!
(pssst, desidero: if your argument has seriously devolved to the point of "well, jeezey-pie, it's not like anyone perished or anything," then i'd say it might be a good time to hang it up.)
April 4, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
OK, I gotta admit, you do bring some context here. It was a stupid lie, but no one died from it. It's not at all like the WMD stuff.
On a different note, she brought out her "Bill didn't seal it up until June" thing again.
April 4, 2008 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
No. But there is also that matter of the Oct. 2002 vote...
April 4, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. Her vote to Invade Iraq was a misstatement that caused many thousands to die.
April 4, 2008 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
She reminds me of George Bush making jokes at the White House Correspondence dinner about weapons of mass destruction. The point about disrespecting our troops is quite accurate. After five years and the still running Clinton facilitatedf war, this woman had noright to make jokes covering up her lies about coming under fire.
April 4, 2008 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, I missed this - did someone die because of her statement?
Desidero
Desidero is correct. No one died because of Senator Clinton's disrespectful, pathetic Leno joke. It was her arrogant, politically motivated vote for the war that helped facilitate the deaths of 4,000 brave American women and men -- and those of numerous other men and woman of other nationalities.
April 4, 2008 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
They were PREPARED STATEMENTS GIVEN MULTIPLE TIMES, even after people started directly questioning her story. The story was even embellished further.
This was never a case of "memory problems" or the like. It was INTENTIONAL.
April 4, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Grant her credit for consistency. After shamefully joking about her lying, she went on to lie some more. What are these "many war zones" she is confusing so?
April 4, 2008 10:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry. "Faulty memory"?
No. She didn't mistake the Bosnia trip with another time that she was under sniper fire. She simply made the entire thing up. That's not "faulty memory." That's called a lie.
April 4, 2008 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Since President is a low stress job, I'm Sure CLinton will make no misstatements when President. Excellent!
Misstatement.
April 4, 2008 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Regardless of how anyone really feels about Clinton you've got to admit that that woman CANNOT ever deliver a joke without it looking totally canned.
Anyway, the way the MSM has accepted her excuses over the lie and let her walk away from this has been disappointing. Hopefully the damage has been done though.
April 4, 2008 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Hillary Jokes About Bosnia Misstatement On Jay Leno"
Jeez, Eric, come ON already. Leave the disingenuous nuance crap to the MSM, OK? Hillary lied. It wasn't a "misstatement," it was a flat-out, garden variety, intentional lie.
Apart from one poodle-headed nitwit, most of us are smarter than that header.
April 4, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama supporters, take a deep breath, focus on a point in front of you, say "ommmmmmm".
Yes, Hillary hallucinated snipers. Yes, it's more than a little scary. But she's allowed to laugh at herself. Heck, everyone else has laughed at her.
April 4, 2008 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure jed757 will rush in to defend the Rocky franchise, but I think I threw up in my mouth a little with the band playing the theme song upon her entrance.
April 4, 2008 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, she is poking fun at herself and disarming critics. There was no upside to trying to defend her statements. Much better route for a story that will be repeated.
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 4, 2008 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do you honestly believe that you are helping your favored candidate by continuing to push that piece of trash website? Go ahead and post your right wing talking points, but spare us the advertisement for your crap webpage. Those two minutes I spent looking at it are two minutes that I can never get back.
April 4, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
At least you picked a handsome guy for your avatar this time...
Pathetic.
April 4, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
So she's changing the narrative from "she lied" to "she lied and laughed about it." She's not disarming critics so much as she's being unrepentant.
April 4, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Am I the only one that thought her answer in regards to Jay asking about Michigan and Florida was the worst part of her interview?
When Jay (in his non-aggressive manner) pressed her on Michigan it seemed like he was asking a 5 year old why she cheated at checkers. She couldn't answer the question, telling him he could read about it on the blogs.
OK.
Read this Mr. Leno:
Hillary Clinton agreed before ANY Primaries started, signing a pledge not to campaign in MI or FL and that their delegates would not count. She was comfortable knowing she had a 100 Super Delegate lead going into the election process, and didn't NEED them, so she agreed to the deal.
Then..she proceeded to get her ass kicked by someone that out-organized her, out-worked her, out-campaigned her, and punctured a hole in the myth of inevitability so vast that the ONLY way she isn't eliminated from the race this very day... is if she cheats.
Not one honest person in America can tell you with a straight face that she didn't know that the delegates from Michigan and Florida wouldn't count. Not one.
For those dishonest brokers trying to rationalize Hillary Clinton's point after the fact, I direct you to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C08W-jgyLlA
Checkmate.
April 4, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Guys, relax. I support Obama, but I'm really taken aback by some of the comments here. She lied, but I don't think it was conscious. She lied to herself too. You can take her to task for that if you want, but who here hasn't exaggerated something subconsciously or made themselves look better than they really are to win the approval of others?
April 4, 2008 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not a conscious lie? It wasn't some off-the-cuff remark. It was prepared text.
April 4, 2008 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton Taxes Due Today!!
April 4, 2008 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
... Karl Rove is smiling ...
Lemmesee, 38 seconds on the "sniper fire" flap, the remainder on the ISSUES, especially the economy.
But hell, why focus on the issues, you know, what this and every other progressive site ought to be focused on.
You're better than this TPM.
April 4, 2008 10:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
So, lying is not an issue you care about?
After Bush's lies, I care about it a great deal.
Who cares what Hillary says if you can't trust her?
April 4, 2008 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
If sleep deprivation has caused Senator Hillary Rambo Clinton to hallucinate about being under sniper fire, then why the hell does she not get some sleep instead of staying up every night until 3.00am, dressed in pearls and pantsuit, just in case the phone my ring.
April 4, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Has this devolved now to people comparing her lie to Bush and WMD? This is really stretching things to try and get what I call "Hillary hatred, Obama lovefest" pushed a little further. How about if we bemoan how terrible one candidate's lie is we have to discuss the other candidate's lie as well? Or is it now that one can only discuss Hillary's lie and not Obama's lies? Is this any worse than claiming that JFK brought your father over to attend university when he didn't? Or that you were born during a certain time to lay claim to the MLK legend when you weren't? What is the scale now we will be using on how bad one lie is in comparison to another other than all Hillary's are bad while Obama's are okay?
April 4, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Bosnia lie is important, not because of the context of this particular lie, but because of the type of lie it is - a totally confabulated story which she stuck to until it was proven via videotape that it was false.
Meanwhile, I was once a civilian in a war zone (really) and like any person in such a situation, can recognize the sound of sniper fire, artillery fire -- and no fire. I believe I will never forget. I also know that even unimportant civilians like me are kept as far away from danger as possible and would NEVER be flown into a known dangerous area.
Thus, I knew her story was made up the instant I heard it and watched with sick fascination as she dug in deeper and deeper.
April 4, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jason W - I don't think that that your type of lie that "exaggerated something subconsciously or made themselves look better than they really are" is anything like Hillary's. That you can be convinced that it is similar tells me how gullible people can be and helps explain how well the spin machine works and how she's gotten away with this type of thing for years.
April 4, 2008 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep I also found this "joke" missplaced, mistimed and it missed the point...she told a bald face lie. A prepared joke does not assuage that lie it magnifies the fact she sees it as trivial. Especially salient when given the greater context of the responsibility she wants to decide the use of military force by using judgment that based on this episode has tenuous credibility at best. Additonally HRC wants it both ways, in one moment she is "ready" for the 3 am phone call and in the next sleep deprivation produced delusions of grandeur Baghdad Bob would scoff at.
April 4, 2008 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
The mere fact that she can tell prepared lies with so much more ease than prepared jokes causes me no small amount of discomfort.
April 4, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
The title of the report and the report are completely misleading. Senator Clinton's Bosnia Myth was not a mere one time misstatement , rather it was repeated several times starting in Iowa, defended and then only admitted after the evidence against her version was irrefutable from main stream media sources.
April 4, 2008 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
The title of the report and the report are completely misleading. Senator Clinton's Bosnia Myth was not a mere one time misstatement , rather it was repeated several times starting in Iowa, defended and then only admitted after the evidence against her version was irrefutable from main stream media sources.
April 4, 2008 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
The title of the report and the report are completely misleading. Senator Clinton's Bosnia Myth was not a mere one time misstatement , rather it was repeated several times starting in Iowa, defended and then only admitted after the evidence against her version was irrefutable from main stream media sources.
April 4, 2008 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cambridge1246: "Is this any worse than claiming that JFK brought your father over to attend university when he didn't? Or that you were born during a certain time to lay claim to the MLK legend when you weren't?"
Yes - those are the kind of stories you hear when you're a kid - Like Hillary's that she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary, who didn't climb Mt Everest until several years after she was born. I forgive those kinds of "lies." I also forgive occasionally getting some details wrong.
I don't forgive making up a whole dramatic story meant to make the teller look like a hero. And sticking to it, when there are many other people who were there with a different account. Sorry - that's beyond the pale.
Thank goodness for the videotape.
April 4, 2008 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Yes - those are the kind of stories you hear when you're a kid"
Maybe, but when you are a man running for President trying to boost your image, it is just as unacceptable as you decry Hillary for. Both repitions of his story have been proven false and if he didn't know his own history after writing two books, then he should be called on the carpet just as much as Hillary.
April 4, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
"That's just because you're filled with Clinton hate.
"I thought it was actually pretty funny - she got caught out in an odd lie that wasn't really relevent to her campaign
~
Yeah! It must be the HATE!!!. Her foreign policy experience in Bosnia and with N .Ireland have no relevance at all... This is all just a bundle of monkey laughs! Means nothing at all!!!
HRC: ALL my considerable experience in life which makes me the right person to become president of the USA... None of it means nothing!!! LOL. YEAH!!! NIPPLE squeezing good times!!!
and any mistakes I made, and lies I told should just be ignored.... or forgotten......... and the press should be ashamed of bringing any of it up, ever. ASHAMED!!!
April 4, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reality Check:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VfjJi2qjR8
Watch Hillary, on March 17th. 2008 tell the story of Sniper Fire.
Watch her expression as she tells the story in great detail.
Watch how she is smiling, and watch how she actually giggles as she talks about running for cover.
Some one who was describing an actual sniper attack would not be smiling and giggling about it. It is a tell, that reveals that Hillary was acting out a script that she knew was a carefully scripted Fairy Tale to make her look like a Macho Leader who would take no prisoners.
Liar Liar, Pantsuit on fire.
April 4, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
The tall tale about Bosnia does no harm but it speaks to her credibility. In the process of trying to rationalize the tale, she claims campaign fatigue. That is kinda hard to explain when she told the story atleast 3 different times. And her additional explanation had mis-statements as well.
If Hillary had not made her toughness and being ready on day 1 a central part of her compaign - then you are right, no big deal. Now there is a lot of the electorate that has to wonder about what other stories she has exagerated.
This is similar to Al Gore bragging about the inventing the internet - no big deal but it really destroyed his credibility.
April 4, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. Lying is a big deal in a President and in a candidate, even more so after Bush and his wouldn't-recognize-the-truth-if-it-walked-into-the-room-with-a-red-hat-on bunch. No more liars in the White House. We need a President we can trust.
April 4, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
As has been aptly pointed out by numerous people here, her jokes are all too reminiscent of Bush's WMD skit. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw her. It sure won't help her, though it doesn't matter much because she's pretty much done anyway.
What is striking to me is the contempt the she has for the public. To make up such a crazy story and repeat it regularly means that she thinks the public is completely moronic, that she wouldn't get caught. And when she did, she said something to the effect of, "Well, excuuuse me for being human." And then she turns it into a WMD-like joke.
I don't think Bush and Clinton are unique cases in their disconnect from reality (meaning they think they can actually get away with this BS)and their contempt for the public. A lot of Washington is subject to this magical thinking, this idea that you can create your own reality. Magical thinking, of course, is a rejection of the Enlightenment, which, be extension, is a rejection of the very principles underlying the Constitution. And magical thought is one of the building blocks of a fascist state. Claiming to be the Heroine of Tuzla or strutting around claiming "mission accomplished" is not coming out of a cultural vacuum.
April 4, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
She can be very funny.
She has great sense of humor and timing. Like her bit on SNL. It was really funny. I was surprised how natural she is at comedy skits.
This was a good move to laugh at herself. Of course the mean spirited Obama crown here will only find criticism. What do you expect of people who actually are wishing "her plane would crash" like one you here actually said!
We LOVE Hillary.
April 4, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
re: "how natural she is at comedy skits"
Perhaps she does have a career after losing the Dem nomination, if the Senate is no longer good enough for her.
April 4, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really? Funny?
Ask some one who put their butt on the line in real sniper fire how damn funny it is.
They have a term for what she is doing - 'Stealing Valor'
Did you not notice she went on to dismiss the seriousness of her offense to thousands who have served? She even said 'lots of war zones' as if to infer, 'ahh gee - that's nothing'.
Did you think those officers that were obviously offended by her exaggerations last week were just putting on a show?
No - THEY WERE PISSED! They were pissed because they put the lives of themselves and others on the line to carry out the mission decreed (rightfully, but belatedly) necessary by her husband. And she then boasts of her daring-do. What a thief!
Worse, should she get elected - how many ways will she find to worm her way out of disasters she creates? Who will she wrongly blame to take the fall for her?
Do we need that sort of reprehensible person as president?
The very fact that she cannot just own up to being horribly wrong and apologize just shows what a pig headed person she is.
April 5, 2008 1:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
you're an ass hole. with your feigned outrage. Jerk. If this had been obama, you'd be wet with excitement.
April 5, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink