Hillary And Obama Spar Over...Weather Underground
It appears that ABC is working hard to prove that it's capable of fielding debate moderators who bow to no one in their capacity for inanity, not even Tim Russert. After asking questions about Wright and the "small town" comments, the ABC moderators go on to ask Obama to account for his years-old connection to...
....former Weather Underground member William Ayers.
Obama, offering his explanation, seemed genuinely puzzled to be getting asked about this, saying that Ayers was merely a "guy who lives in my neighborhood," and made a surprise reference to Senator Tom Coburn...
The fact is that I'm also friendly with Tom Coburn, one of the most conservative Republicans in the United States Senate, who during his campaign once said that it might be appropriate to apply the death penalty to those who carried about abortions. Do I need to apologize for Mr. Coburn's statements?
In response, Hillary actually hit Obama over the Ayers connection (with a bonus reference to 9/11 thrown in):
I also believe that Senator Obama served on a board with Mr. Ayers for a period of time, the woods foundation, which was a paid directorship position. And if I'm not mistaken, that relationship with Mr. Ayers on this board continued after 9/11 and after his reported comments, which were deeply hurtful to people in New York, and I would hope to every American, because they were published on 9/11, and he said that he was just sorry they hadn't done more....I know Senator Obama is a good man, and I respect him greatly. But I think this is an issue that certainly the Republicans will be raising.
Obama appeared to have a response ready:
President Clinton pardoned or commuted the sentences of two members of the Weather Underground, which I think is a slightly more significant act than me serving on a board with somebody for actions that he did 40 years ago.
It's over.
The calling hours for Hillary will be 4-6 and 7-9 this weekend.
Prayer service following.
Burial in Pennsylvania.
April 16, 2008 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL, she's done, where is the fork?
April 16, 2008 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Total bullshit. Gibson and Stephanopoulos should be ashamed of themselves. Fortunately, Obama is making a point of taking on the mainstream media and arguing (in regard to Tuzla as well as this shit) that they need to focus on substance.
April 16, 2008 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Never thought this Wolverine would agree with a Buckeye. Obama really can bring this country together!
April 16, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ditto from another Wolverine.
April 16, 2008 9:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh-oh.
Maybe HRC's right.
You're judged by the company you keep.
;)
April 16, 2008 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, for Obama's sake, I'm willing to make the ultimate sacrifice -- hanging out with buckeye riff-raff.
April 16, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
As the old saying goes,
politics makes strange bedfellows!
April 16, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of which, Woody Hayes and Bo Schembechler were both die-hard Republicans, a blight on both our alma maters.
April 16, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Buckeye alum here, and I hear y'all...
I hope we Buckeye and Wolverine fans can continue in the spirit Obama inspires, and respect each other instead of putting each other down. If we put each other down, so will those who see us doing it. But if we respect each other, as worthy opponents in competition, others who see us compete will more likely respect us as well.
I'm being serious here, folks. Really.
I, for one, know all the words to and enjoy singing "Hail to the Victors." I think it's a great fight song. But I can't get through "Carmen Ohio" without crying...
April 16, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen, brother. O-H!
April 17, 2008 12:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I O!
April 17, 2008 1:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Kumbaya, baby!
April 17, 2008 9:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm no supporter of the Weather Underground, but it's been clear for years that Hillary planned a campaign to run against the left. Now, she made a huge blunder in starting that campaign before she'd won the nomination, but this has been DLC strategy for years.
The only unexplainable thing is how we on the left have put up with this for so long. You think someone who plans a dynasty based on running as a conservative right-winger is going to work for universal health care? peace?
April 16, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to mention restore habeas corpus and ban torture.
April 16, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama:
He is smarter.
Calling hours for Hillary will be 4-6 and 7-9 this weekend. Please bring your own shot glass. And will someone please bring an iPod with "Send in the Clowns" on it?
April 16, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll bring my BOSE iPod speakers...
April 16, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ayers is really important to Clinton, she claims he lives in the past with her.
April 16, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
On revenue who is he debating? The facts as stipulated by the moderator?
April 16, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
This feels just as much Obama v. Moderators as Obama v. Clinton.
April 16, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
But I'm watching ABC's focus group of undecided voters graph of reactions. He's doing very, very well. She is plunging every time she refers to him. Some of his most soaring approval has come when he defended himself from attacks by her or the moderators.
Gobama!
April 16, 2008 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's fucked, ain't she?
April 16, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
yeah pretty much - it doesn't make her a nicer person, though. I don't pity her for a second.
April 16, 2008 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are much too kind! It just that some habits are too hard to break, yes lying is habit forming
April 16, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ayers shows Obama's recurring 'doesn't get it' problem. This is an avowed and unrepentent terrorist. Obama seemed almost ready to say 'how dare you ask about my neighbor...' But this terrorist neighbor is a fundraiser for him. Association defines you Senator Obama, and Ayers is part of this definition. Shame on you.
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 16, 2008 9:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not sure you want to talk about 'associations' Matthew.
April 16, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
How does it define him, exactly? Beyond "his neighbor is a bad guy", I mean. Do you actually believe Obama is a radical environmentalist?
April 16, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fuck, my reputation is forever ruined. I will always have to explain my relationship with Matthew Weaver.
April 16, 2008 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
There goes your Presidential bid.
April 16, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
We're all tainted now. Thanx for reminding me.
April 16, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Weaver, you should get a job with the National Republican Committee. I hear that Besides Joe Liebermann, they're short on talent these days.
April 16, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would not be surprised to see a much bigger connection than just his neighbor.
The guy has major negatives that the gop can exploit.
April 16, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank god Clinton doesn't have any of those pesky negatives.
April 16, 2008 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh Please. Ayers is not Obama's friend. Bill Clinton pardoned two of these folks.
From the Washington Post blog:
Senator Obama strongly condemns the violent actions of the Weathermen group, as he does all acts of violence. But he was an eight-year-old child when Ayers and the Weathermen were active, and any attempt to connect Obama with events of almost forty years ago is ridiculous.
April 16, 2008 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your whole life is a "doesn't get it problem."
April 16, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Clinton economy rocks.
Bring it back Clinton.
April 16, 2008 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, loved that Repug congress too. And the impeachment hearings, and squabbling over the meaning of "is". Welfare reform ruled. Don't ask don't tell, f- yeah! I can go on, but you don't care about reality, just soundbites...
April 16, 2008 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Get this.... Bill isn't running again Gotalife! She is a different person!
April 16, 2008 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
your tag is very ironic.
April 17, 2008 1:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Aaaaargh!
Obama did not call the stupid idiot Gibson on his retarded post hoc ergo propter hoc moron stupid stupid half-wit stupid blathering about "revenue going up after capital gains tax rate cuts."
Say it after me: "CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSALITY."
April 16, 2008 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did anyone just get a look at Rendell? He doesn't look happy!
April 16, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Its that horse that he hitched his futue to that is making him unhappy~
April 16, 2008 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
The mean the one lying in the middle of the street after beating itself to death?
April 16, 2008 10:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
The audience lighting is weird. It looks like they're sitting in an aquarium.
April 16, 2008 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
They do a really cool light show in that room with a couple of narrators taking you through the events leading to the founding of our nation. Highly recommend a visit to the Constitution Center.
April 16, 2008 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm late here - haven't read the comments, but have to say - Obama I love you for saying that about Coburn. That was just about perfect.
April 16, 2008 9:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does anyone else think it's stupid to press these candidates to make "categorical" promises about the war, taxes, or anything at this point? Isn't it more intelligent to assess the situation once they're in office? Do they have all the information they would need to make such promises at this point? It's just setting them up for charges of flip-flopping later.
April 16, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree candidates should not back themselves into corners with promises they might not be able to keep. But worse is candidate, like Obama, that goes on at length about raising lots of taxes on us. What a LOSING ARGUMENT!
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 16, 2008 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you think raising capital gains tax rate so they match wages is a bad thing?
So you think that Warren Buffet and Paris Hilton should pay a lower rate on their income than the kid flipping burgers at McDonald's?
Oh wait, I am responding to the resident white supremacist, so I am a fool for expecting anything coherent underpinning the post I am replying to.
April 16, 2008 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree candidates should not back themselves into corners with promises they might not be able to keep. But worse is candidate, like Obama, that goes on at length about raising lots of taxes on us. What a LOSING ARGUMENT!
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 16, 2008 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Josh writes: 9:09 PM ... Obama's making a good point on the capital gains tax. But he's making it in a very bedraggled, painful, drawn out way. This is not good at all. All the right points are there but just not put well.
Yes, pained. I almost fell asleep. Obama has problems giving simple answers. What's wrong with yes and no? (Yes, Clinton could benefit from this too.)
As I write this, Obama's holding up a break to point out all the new taxes he was to create. Remember Mondale? Can't win by lining up all of the taxes you are going to increase taxes on. And now he says raise taxes on those making $97K and more! That includes me and most of my friends. It includes a lot of the IT crowd, maybe even some of you. Are you all ready to give up money under an Obama administration?!
Matthew
http://www.TheIndependentView.com
April 16, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it's for the true betterment of this country -- hell yes! If it's for Iraq and defense contractors, no.
I don't have a republican aversion to paying towards the common good.
April 16, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Matthew, so far as I know, you did not fall asleep because you lack the intellectual capacity to process thoughts that take more than 3 seconds to express.
April 16, 2008 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Go ahead and go to sleep, Weaver. We'll wake you for Obama's inauguration in January.
April 17, 2008 12:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
O dude really - Stephanopoulos and shame in the same sentence?
;)
April 16, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this Weaver? I'm being serious. Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaSPQnHUnLQ&feature=related
What do you think? Is this our man with the hate plan himself?
April 16, 2008 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eeeeewwww! What a creepy guy!
I can't believe how many views that video has gotten.
April 16, 2008 11:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Man, Obama just attacked Hillary for what she said, "out of camera range" and his focus group graph plunged!
That's what he mustn't do. It reminds people of her.
April 16, 2008 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
The focus group, moooo moooo... lol, is that so the press can tell you what to think?
I think that people have made up theur minds
April 16, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where are you seeing this "focus group graph"? And I agree, he should differentiate himself from Hillary, not emulate her. Although I admit that I do get irritated when he doesn't fight back and I know that's inconsistent!
April 16, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seeing it at
http://a.abclocal.go.com/wpvi/livemedia?section=news/politics&id=6083174
April 16, 2008 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
That Charley is a dickhead.
He's the worst moderator ever, he's like a press reporter.
April 16, 2008 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish he and the rest of the MSM were half as inquisitive with the current administration.
April 16, 2008 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love it - thanks.
April 16, 2008 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Someone please kill me (or at least give me the last hour back). ABC should be disbanded for this.
April 16, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good debate. We are finally seeing the differences in their ideas.
Clinton is crushing him as usual.
Not even close.
April 16, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
paging idiotic
April 16, 2008 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just had a Dulcolax commercial seems fitting
April 16, 2008 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are we watching Fox News?? A full 50% of the debate was wasted on bullshit "gotcha" attacks, all but one going at Obama, on every issue from why do you hate America to why do you love terrorists, and now we've had 20 minutes of the "moderators" whipping out right wing talking points on taxes and the economy! What the hell is this bullshit???
April 16, 2008 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
How the hell can Clinton say that there are, "more progressive ways" to save social security than lifting a payroll tax cap? I know she understands what's involved, so my question would be, does she understand what "progressive policies" are? What in the hell is more "progressive" than making the wealthiest of Americans share a reasonable and fair burden of a program like Social Security?!?
Who the hell is this woman, and how did she get into the Democratic Party?
April 16, 2008 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha! ABC is already trying to spin its own coverage of the debate! The headline on their site says "...debate takes civil tone..." What a load of crap.
April 16, 2008 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is $250k really the upper limit of the middle class in this country?
Maybe in the old European bourgeious sense, but not the accepted American usage, where anyone who owns their own house and has a little money in the bank for emergencies considers themselves middle class.
April 16, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think maybe most of the media (producers, reporters, etc. in DC, LA, and NY) makes somewhere between 100-250k, not counting faceguys like these two jackasses. I believe it's possible that might explain the complete lack of understanding of what the majority of people in this country earn.
April 16, 2008 9:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
the first hour of this debate was a total waste
April 16, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is quite possibly the worst debate ever. If any candidate agrees to an ABC debate in the next 5 years, they should be slapped. A full hour of ridiculous petty garbage.
April 16, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Barack is fucking up hard. "Iranis"? HRC wins this debate.
I can understand why you cultist are pissed. The moderators FOR ONCE are being fair. Thank God almighty they are calling Barack on his weak mind and weak grasp on facts.
Hillary won, and you know it. Go suck each other's tiny d*cks and cry yourselves to sleep.
April 16, 2008 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yo!
Can you send some of that weed yer smokin' over to Ohio?
Or is the taste of bitter whine?
April 16, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
this is why i have No respect for the paid shills in the media.
imagine being up there and having to worry about everything you say will be twisted into sound bites and turned around because you spoke the truth.
Obam is not comfortable with the "game' as most politicians are.
the insanity of the questions dont help and i suspect he is pissed off at them.
April 16, 2008 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Could we return the debates to The League of Women Voters or something better than these commerce-driven "journalists"?
Hell, the typical garden club or Moose Lodge could do better. Or the Cub Scouts.
April 16, 2008 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen!
April 16, 2008 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is in part habit, lack of preparation, but Gibson and Stephanopoulos engage in too may cheap shots.
The argumentative got-ya stuff is too old.
April 16, 2008 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I must be a couple of minutes behind - but WTF is with Charlie Gibson? He keeps arguing with Obama.
This debate is horrible. Both candidates seem to be off of their game and Charlie & George are beyond horrible. Tabloid questions and arguing with the candidates - I don't care which candidate it is -it shouldn't happen.
April 16, 2008 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, ABC's moderators are worse.
April 16, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Josh's running diary is killing me:
April 16, 2008 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
These moderators are a poor excuse for reporters. Exactly as Obama says - they distract and cheapen the discourse. Not exactly balanced questions.
April 16, 2008 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Matthew Weaver:
Put those babes down son. I fear for them. Then explain how Hillary setting a firm withdraw deadline from Iraq isn't just as dumb. And please... don't tell me she knows as much as the generals on the ground.
April 16, 2008 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
She did go to Bosnia, right?
April 16, 2008 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it HDTV or does it look like Charlie Gibson keeps inserting himself into the debate instead of allow the candidates to do so?
Is this the Charlie Gibson show? He looks HORRIBLE on HDTV, I would'nt of tuned in if it was.
Where is boy wonder? wasn't he a Clinton staffer?
April 16, 2008 9:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
And let's not forget Stephanopolous history in the Clinton-I administration.
Was the audience reminded of that at the start of the debate? (I'm not on the tv machine now)
April 16, 2008 9:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://time-blog.com/curious_capitalist/2008/01/do_capital_gains_tax_cuts_incr.html
April 16, 2008 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary was well prepared on the Ayers question? First time I have heard Ayers come up?
April 16, 2008 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I talked to a friend of mine after the debate. She was a hardcore Edwards supporter here in Iowa, campaigned for him, etc.
She had no idea who Ayers even was. She had literally no idea what was even going on while they were talking about Ayers and Wright. She actually turned off the debate because she thought it was 'boring'.
This stuff isn't going to have much effect on low information voters.
April 17, 2008 12:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is the first debate I've seen this election cycle that is actually asking questions--even if gotcha questions. One ealier debate got heated discussion between the candidates, but most were boring.
This is excellent and gives folks new insight on the candidates. Too bad the Obama Cult is hurt that there are serious questions. Are you afraid he my say what he thinks?
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 16, 2008 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Serious questions? Like the lapel pin? Or how to "use" George Bush? Yeah. That's important to the future of America.
April 16, 2008 9:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Posted by UWI:
I like the way this gal talks.
Any chance you will be visiting and contributing to my Presidential Library soon?
April 16, 2008 9:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
UWI is a Rush-Troll. Looking back over its comments, it seems to be obsessed with dicks and circle-jerks. Just another Republican closet-case hypocrite. Best not to feed it.
April 16, 2008 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yikes!
The GOP next generation's Roy Kohn!
April 16, 2008 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gibson and Stephanopoulos must have trolled Fux Noise for their talking points to base their questions on.
Those questions on Wright from Gibson and on Ayers by Stephanopoulos…
What kind of place have we become where we think it is perfectly ok to throw our neighbors and our pastors under the bus? The politics as usual where if a politician cannot renounce, reject and denounce and dismember his neighbors, family and his preacher, then he must not be good for America is just plain WRONG.
Gibson and Stephanopoulos suck.
April 16, 2008 9:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
and your opinion is just so solid, weaver.
yeah, we're gonna fall right in line with you.
April 16, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, according to damn near everyone in the blogosphere, this "debate" has been nothing but a live "NOW! That's What I Call Gaffe!" media gaffe. Seeing as I'm in Vegas and the debate has yet to be broadcast here, I think I'll skip watching it in an effort to not contribute to ABC's ratings (what's up with that by the way? All other debates in the past, if I recall correctly, have been broadcast live all across the U.S.).
April 16, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Charlie Gibson is such a twit.
April 16, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I never watch ABC news really so I don't know what the guy is normally like. He does have the smell of jackass on him tonight though.
April 16, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tell ya what.
DOn't pay any taxes, as long as you don't use any public roads, library, or buildings.
Do not expect to get any help from the police, fire dept, or military.
Do not expect any social security, unemployment, or medicare.
April 16, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did I just hear correctly that Obama deferred answering a Constitutional question on the second amendment?! Yet, wasn't he and others laying claim to his professorship in constitutional law?
And regarding that 1996 survey, he just said his handwriting is not on it, that he didn't fill it out. Yet, there is a copy out there with his handwritten notes. Why lie?!
Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com
April 16, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, the guy has a problem telling the truth.
April 16, 2008 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Awww. You two complete each other. It's precious.
April 16, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ahem. He didn't teach Second Amendment law and neither did any other Con Law prof in the US because, ummm, there *is* no Second Amendment law to teach. The Court took a Second Amendment case this term for the first time in decades. Gun law cases usually arise under Article I, Section 8 jurisprudence.
April 16, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
And, by the way, I was Obama's student at U of C, where he occupied the same position (senior lecturer) as Judge Posner, widely recognized as the preminent legal scholar in the US. The U of C does not screw around about academic bona fides.
Hillary, on the other hand, failed the notoriously easy DC bar and taught a crap seminar at the law school in Little Rock (tier 4). That's just so embarrassing for her.
April 16, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
SNNNNNAP!!!
April 17, 2008 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Come on.
No one has done more for the Weather Underground than Barack Obama.
April 16, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
First Fornicator, You crack my shit right up.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 16, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
They're both giving weak answers on gun control. Obama is going to have to tighten that answer up before he debates McCain, but he'll have no equivocation about it at all.
April 16, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, both are so afraid of giving a straight answer that they are really making a mess of this issue.
Matthew
http://www.TheIndependentView.com
April 16, 2008 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I figured you wouldn't like either of their answers. Then again, you are a McCain troll here to stir stuff up as much as possible.
It'll be easier for Obama to tighten up that answer than it will be for McCain to brush up on economic issues or figure out the difference between Sunni and Shiite before the fall.
April 16, 2008 9:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does anyone know where we can write to complain? I'm not an angry-letter-writer, but this is absolutely ridiculous. I have an ex-girlfriend that works for ABC News, but I'm pretty sure she's not going to give me the email address that lets me tell her network they suck.
Josh, Greg, anyone?
April 16, 2008 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3052660
This will (or should) take you directly to the page for you to write to ABC News.
April 16, 2008 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you.
April 16, 2008 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really...a twit.
April 16, 2008 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good lord, stop whining and listen to their ideas.
April 16, 2008 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
smoking weed does not make you that crazy - that's a smear on sweet jane, and I protest.
Weaver is smokin crack - isn't that obvious?
April 16, 2008 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're right.
I blame the torture of watching HRC for the utterance of my mangled analogy.
April 16, 2008 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Complain, this is wonderful! Obama, is showing why he is an empty suit. Great uplifting speeches and charisma, dreadful with hardball questions.
April 16, 2008 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Socialists for Obama! Fight the power, brother!
April 16, 2008 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I AGREE! Here's a site you should check out!
April 16, 2008 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary won this debate because the moderators totally went soft on her and its obvious they are going after BO.
April 16, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I watch Charlie Gibson instead of Katie Couric night after night. At least I did until now. He's horrendous. What a missed opportunity. This is what we get from a 'respected journalist' with years of experience?
As for George, he's been lost in a Clintonian love/hate stardom fog for a decade. And get your stupid hand away from your face you twit.
I can't believe this 'debate' has been this lousy.
April 16, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
American Idol looks so much better compared to this. Randy, Paula and Simon should have been the moderators for the debate.
April 16, 2008 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm watching on the small streaming screen. I'm seeing comments on the Web that Obama looks very down and tired. Is that true? My video doesn't show it. Does he look bad? Will it hurt him?
(Andrew Sullivan says she is "running on fumes" because this kind of fight is what she loves best.)
April 16, 2008 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is looking a little tired, but even more so, I think he is disgusted with the crap that is being flung at him.
April 16, 2008 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I honestly think it's the disgust. The start of this debate was downright ridiculous, and Hillary was happy as she could be to wallow in the mud with Gibson.
That's not where he wants to be, and it must have been discouraging to some extent.
April 16, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
i dont agree with that.
i think he is more pissed at the insanity of it
April 16, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
the CNN debate with with Wolf and Campbell Brown were bad, but this one tonight was by far the worse of them all.
April 16, 2008 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I said this to weaver once, I'll say it to you - thank god that's how you see it because if you saw it the way I do, I'd have to revise my thinking.
you're both loons.
April 16, 2008 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know I am.
April 16, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, whine because he is getting his butt kicked.
She is just a better politician and candidate so stop whining.
Grow up.
April 16, 2008 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
And that's why she has won more states, more of the popular vote, and more pledged delegates!
April 16, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love that ABC's demographic seems to have a lot of stomach and bowel problems. I know after watching this, I'm ready to run out and buy a case of Activia, some Rolaids, and a bunch of Dulcolax. Then I'll top off that complete inner cleansing with some Ambien to knock myself out and hope that I've forgotten all of this when I wake up tomorrow.
April 16, 2008 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Live from New York it's Saturday night!!
right?
April 16, 2008 9:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Josh Marshall is blogging on the main TPM page now and even having missed the first part of the debate he knows these questions based soly on Republican attacks and topics that are not really issues in this campaign is total crap. It's not just the Obama supporters who are thinking this is a crap debate.
April 16, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Paging LeroyS...
Where's LeroyS?
April 16, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, Charlie. No, it hasn't been a fascinating debate, because of your questions. What an anticlimax.
April 16, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will be just fascinated to find out the numbers on who watched this cause I'm betting it didn't have a big audience. This is the 26th? Yeah, the rest of the country is watching.
LOL
There was a basketball game on here - Mavericks and New Orleans.
April 16, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
i just read a HP blog post that said the Charlie Gibson once worked in the Clinton 1st term administration. is that true?
April 16, 2008 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tonight's long national nightmare is almost over.
April 16, 2008 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't get the ABC news site to load for me so I can write them a thank you note. I hope their server crashed with an inundation of complaints.
April 16, 2008 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, Clinton's a better politician and candidate! That awful, inferior candidate and politician and Obama's only beating her by a margin the size of her wins in new York, California, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Ohio put together.
It would be more if he weren't so awful!
April 16, 2008 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
A new political coalition. Yes.
April 16, 2008 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know Gorgie worked in the first nut i dont recall Gibson.
April 16, 2008 9:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't normally say this
That Sucked big time
April 16, 2008 9:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm on the West Coast. After this play by play, maybe I'll pass on this debate. I wasn't thrilled to hear G.S. was on of the mods anyway. Why would the Obama camp agree to that?
I just want Pennsylvania OVER. I just want Hillary OVER.
April 16, 2008 9:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Am on the West Coast your were spared, be happy you missed it, and hopefully all!
April 16, 2008 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll watch the debate, but I'm not looking forward to it.
April 16, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I watched the whole thing. Trust me, RemyD, it WAS a waste of time.
It was a Republican-style piling on--4 against 1: Stefanopoulos, Gibson, Hillary, and the ghost of Sean Hannity vs. Obama.
Hillary was sickening in her pandering to the right-wing, with her phony self-righteous comments about Wright, Farrakhan (!), William Ayers, Obama's "elitist insults" against people of faith, blah, blah, etc. Jesus. It's getting difficult to remember Hillary and some of her most devout followers are supposed to be Democrats!
This piling on put Obama on the defensive, but I think he did a good job reinforcing one of his main campaign messages: that the American people are sick of the phony distractions that make up this gotcha! style of politicking. He said it every time one of these bullshit "issues" was raised. It seems like neither Hillary nor the debate moderators understands this.
This is a different election. The old-style crap isn't working any more. It's a little sickening but amusing to the Hillary campaign and the lazy, brain-free MSM helping Obama reinforce his message.
Hillary's hangin' herself with her own rope. It'll be the same during the general election, when the Republicans try pulling the same insulting crap.
April 16, 2008 11:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hannity put Stephanopolis(sp?)up to the Ayers question. He was on his radio show yesterday and asked Hannity what he would ask - and Hannity said to ask Obama about Ayers.
I think Stephanopolis was playing the Nancy Kerrigan knee capper for the Clintons tonight. "Bitter", "Pin", Ayers" "Wright" vs "Tuzla". What about Mark Penn cutting deals with the Colombians? What about Bill Clinton and the Colombians? What about the $500M Clinton Library donations?
Ridiculous.
April 16, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously. On the bullshit scorecard Obama got killed.
They asked if Wright loved America as much as Obama did but not one question about Penn and Bill on Colombia?!?
April 16, 2008 10:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hate Jake Tapper.
April 16, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Most of us do.
April 16, 2008 9:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
So who won on this point? It sounds like they both came across looking bad. Or was Obama saying, "I may be bad, but she's worse."? Sorry. Sounds a little silly to me. Guess I'll wait until I get to see it.
April 16, 2008 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama clearly lost but Hillary certainly didn't "win."
John McCain won this debate.
April 16, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, above all, ABC lost this debate. The message board on the ABC web site is on fire.
April 16, 2008 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
both hillary and obama were not at their best tonight.
they are "all in".
but more then that, i HOPE enough people take away the impression that there are some serious problems with the media and these over paid shills.
April 16, 2008 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
how many times did they mention Colombia tonight.....
April 16, 2008 10:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd be interested in getting a clarification about this. I didn't hear a question about Ayers - I heard Sen. Clinton bring up Ayers and the Weather Underground in her response to a question about Rev. Wright.
If that's the case, Jesus' admonition about judging lest you be judged comes to mind: "How can you see the speck in your brother's eye, but do not see the log in your own eye?"
Her husband did pardon two members of the Weather Underground. They were in prison - not faculty members at a major university and members of a charity's board. All things considered, being on a charity's board with a person hardly compares with granting pardons. Or to be fair, maybe Obama knew no more about Ayers than Clinton knew about Rosenberg and Evans.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think this demonstrates incredible political stupidity on her part?
April 16, 2008 10:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
she didn't bring it up -- Stephanopolous did. She did, however, pile on.
April 16, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Obama took that opportunity to bitch slap her with Bill's presidential pardons.
April 16, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Boy, did he ever. Talk about being ready for a question.
But I like that he didn't pile on. Maybe he recognizes that the whole topic is fodder for the general election.
April 16, 2008 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I appreciate the clarification; I didn't hear GS' question. In that case, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.
April 16, 2008 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not much different from the past, especially the recent past. ABC deserves some credit, also.
April 16, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Charlie Gibson is a Republican, and Little Georgie Boy is a Clinton agent. Watch the video, and watch how both Charlie and George never interrupted Hillary, but ever time they asked Senator Obama a question, as soon as he start to answer they kept on interrupting him with "but, but". You could tell that they had a hit list of gotcha questions that they wanted to use on him, and they were determined to not let him get his answers out.
April 16, 2008 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg's gone through eight bottles of Jergen's during this Hillary jizzfest.
April 16, 2008 10:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I notice the viewer comments at ABC's site are mirroring pretty closely what's being written here at TPM.
April 16, 2008 10:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Honestly, Obama had a horrible debate. But I think thankfully it's going to be overshadowed by everyone's outrage at ABC.
April 16, 2008 10:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
From Andrew Sullivan
5168 Comments: That's the number on ABC News comment site. I have found one positive one so far. I predict a big surge in Obama donations after tonight. He did badly, but that wasn't the story. She did better - but Clinton tends to do better when she seems the victim of unfair attacks. Tonight, she was channeling Lee Atwater. I have no idea what the actual impact of this fiasco will be, but I know it made me realize how deep the MSM rot goes.
April 16, 2008 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
By posting here with johnoneone, mathew weaver, santa monica, liam and others I am associating with them. Before addition posting and before exposing myself to trouble if I were ever to run for the higher public office, and before I have to declare my true beliefs, I want to ask one question:
How many of you have broken a law this year?
I'm including speeding, dui, drugs, etc.
Again, you might come up if I choose to run to high elective office or when I am interviewed by State Police, as I have been before, for another stint as.... Thank you for your no doubt thoughtful and frank comments.
April 16, 2008 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
If one believes the New Testament (as I do), Jesus hung out with the "lesser of those his brothers."
And the powers that be killed him, though maybe not for hanging out with those folks.
I'd run for Congress myself, sabatia, but I'm a Christian socialist - emphasis on Christian, bigtime, from my perspective, but if there's one thing Americans hate more than terrorists, it's socialists. Imagine me trying to tell a religious right-winger that I'm not an atheist, even though I used to be. It doesn't fly too well.
So, been there, done that.
I'm a religious fundamentalist. I don't drink, do drugs, or anything else like that. I do the best I can not to speed - people honk at me a lot for going so slow. I even pay Internet use taxes - I keep my Internet receipts, even though I know there's no way for my state to enforce these taxes. I told a religious right-wing friend this week that I do, and that I believe strongly in paying taxes, reminding them about Romans 13. They disagreed, of course; right-wingers don't believe in government, let alone paying taxes.
But that right-wing friend still has a job. I got laid off, my black Ph.D. self, two weeks ago, from the same company. Racism or capitalism? Doesn't matter much, I have no job now. But the apostle Paul did write, "For capitalism is the root of all kinds of evil."
I sense sarcasm in your question, sabatia, and I acknowledge it if so, but I'm not feeling like playing rhetorical games right now, if that's OK with you.
God Bless America.
April 16, 2008 11:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
ABC now stands for Assault Black Candidate.
April 16, 2008 11:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is The coolest. I was so angry with the beyond ridiculous questions, thought my head would explode.
They tried so hard to break him, how he remained as calm as he did is amazing, it was so obvious it was a plan, with Hannity there in spirit.
Just had to close it down, apparently others did also.
By the time he is finished with Hillary, The right wing idiots, the moderators, most of the MS columists & above all most of the talking heads he will have so earned the prize.
April 16, 2008 11:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
ABC did what a reputible news organization has to do, and did it well. It just regained my respect. Now that the lesson for MSNBC begin.
April 16, 2008 11:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm out on the west coast so am only watching this debate now but I have to say right now
Just put the f*ckin pin on already!. I'm sick of hearing about it I understand why he doesn't wear it but at this point it's just getting ridiculous and I'd like to shut that one up.
Haven't heard the bitch slap yet but I know it's coming soon.
April 16, 2008 11:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep waiting. During the weather underground nonsense.
April 16, 2008 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
There it is! Right on. Billy boy in addition to the 2 weather underground members also pardoned 16 FALN members - puerto rican terrorists responsible for setting off some 140 bombs in Chicago, NY and DC. It has been surmised that he was looking to improve the hispanic vote in Hillary's Senate run. So the Clintons really can't say diddly about a neighbor of Obamas who was a member 40 years ago and is now a professor.
April 16, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
WTF? A "security umbrella" in the middle east? Now we are going promise to protect Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, UAE in addition to Israel? How about get out of Iraq and work on a treaty between Israel and Palestine.
April 17, 2008 12:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a disgraceful performance by these two so-called newspeople. Almost an hour of tabloid journalism questioning before we ever got to anything Americans are really interested in. Gibson and Stephanopoulos epitomize all that is wrong with the MSM today. The whole event looked like a right wing talking points hit job orchestrated by Fixed News Channel. I always knew Gibson was a right wing tool. But Stephanopoulos, actually using questions from Sean Hannity of all people? And about William Ayers?? ABC needs to fire everyone at the News operation from top down. And while your at it please apologize to America for wasting so much of our time on nonsense.
Yours truly, A bitter Pennsylvanian
April 17, 2008 12:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hannity will be on this like white on rice tonight!
April 17, 2008 7:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe ABC should have run the debate like CNN's Suzanne Malveaux and ask softballs like “Do you prefer diamonds or pearls?” MSNBC/NBC/CNN butt kissing Obama cable networks who's combined ratings do not beat FOX!
April 17, 2008 8:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
bzzz.
Wrong again, Fox news watcher!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/01/arts/01arts-POLITICSBENE_BRF.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Thanks to its debate coverage and heavy focus on the presidential primaries, CNN’s ratings in prime time for viewers 25 to 54 were up 90 percent, to an average of 453,000 for the first quarter of 2008. That was enough to edge past the perennial leader, Fox, which had 438,000 viewers, up 12 percent from last year.
People are waking up.
(Oh, and NBC kicks the ass out of cable.)
April 17, 2008 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink