They sure do love appealing to the ignorant. Comparing caucus votes with primary votes is comparing apples to oranges.

It's like McAuliffe just called "all time Quarterback" in backyard football.

Greg-

Well put. But actually, they're not just trying to obscure the idea that the electorate rendered a clear judgment. They're mostly focused on keeping this process going for as long as possible. So when McAuliffe says something as demonstrably improbable as "Hillary will have moved ahead in the popular vote," he doesn't actually expect intelligent people to believe him. But because of the rules by which the media plays, his statement will be reported and noted. And since it can't be definitively proven false until the race is almost over (certainly not for another couple of contests) it serves his purpose - it keeps the race limping along.

If you or I take the trouble to debunk the notion, we're just feeding the controversy. The more outrageous the claim, the bigger the controversy - and how can we call the election over when the outcome is still controversial?

MC Rove is laying it straight on Fox News.

Actually, they both need supers to win and are making the arguments to get their votes.

Mine is simple.

Clinton will win the general easlily if the Dems want to win this time and not lose three in a row.

Having to continue to listen to McAuliffe, Lanny & Kiki is the worst thing about HRC winning this.

That and I will be surprised if Scarborough & Buchanan don't have a heart attack by November. I have honestly never seen 'journalists' get that hot under the collar about a particular candidate. The repubs must be pretty rattled about Obama.

I will say that Obama does need to make a clearer more effective economic argument. Well, on second thought, maybe not considering that McCain is incapable of making any economic argument.

Besides NY, is there a Dem-leaning state in the country that is more favorable demographically to HRC than Pennsylvania? Add to that the active support of a popular governor and 100 mayors including Phili and Pitt and the cards were stacked against him. Sill, Obama closed every gap in PA versus the results in Ohio.

This race was over after the Potomic Primary; all we are doing now is running out the clock.

Hillary is broke and didn't win by enough today.

This game is about delegates and Obama can't lose the pledged delegate lead. He has also won more states and will likely have won more popular votes.

The superdelegates get this and won't split this party in two.

Obama is the nominee.

Random factiod of the night:

As I right this, Hillary's lead in Luzerne county provides her with her overall margin of victory - she's taking the populous county 3-1. So what's Luzerne? Well, here's a clue - it's the most heavily Polish county in the country. Catholics backed Hillary, according to the exit polls, and the more religious and traditional they were, the more heavily they turned out to support her. That's a demographic Obama's going to have to work very, very hard to court after this is over.

And, Obama has been pulling his punches (might as well keep the Rocky analogy going) against Hillary because he knows he needs to get her supporters to beat McCain -- Hillary only cares about wounding Obama at this point.

I'm not sure Obama should get more agressive on Hillary but he should get clearer and address these lingering rumors more directly - it'd help him in the long run.

If he wins Indiana it'll be over in May. If he loses Indiana it'll be over in June.

I'm originally from Wisconsin and the Polish Catholic populations there vote Dem no matter what. I mean when pro-life Republican Tommy Thompson was winning with margins of over 20% the Polish townships were going 2 to 1 for the Dem -- unbelievable.

MSNBC is putting up numbers saying that Clinton voters are much less likely to vote for Obama in the general than the other way around. You people mirror your candidate in the fact that you don't give a damn about liberal politics or policies, or ultimately about the future of this country. It's all about you, apparently.

You are all selfish, immature scum. God, how I have grown to hate Hillary Clinton and her supporters during this campaign.

Not counting the caucus states as much as the primary states for a popular vote count actually favors Obama rather than Clinton. He has consistently underperformed in primaries versus caucuses. If all caucus states had used primaries, then Hillary would have a greater share of the vote than she does now. The pledged delegate count is not a more democratic measure than using the popular vote because it overcounts certain congressional districts rather using the idea of "one person, one vote." For example, Obama won the pledged delegate count in Nevada despite winning less votes. How is this the more democratic outcome? Clinton is not "changing the rules in the middle of the game." The superdelegates were always allowed to vote for Obama based on any criteria they chose. Can an Obama supporter tell me where it says that the superdelegates should decide whom to vote for based on the pledged delegate count rather than the popular vote count or why this is fairer?

Is it only me or there are other people who is seeing these MSNBC pundits and watching their coverage in shock! this is soo biased and one-sided, they should be embarassed!

We're in deep shit IMO. A large amount of Democrats are saying they won't vote for one candidate or the other (Just saw it on MSNBC). It's coming from both sides pretty hardcore now. More so for Clinton supporters atm.

I know, I know, everyone will come together in the end they say. Perhaps, but could someone make me feel better and help me find some polls that showed a similar schism in a party during a primary that was rectified before the General and resulted in a win for that party? I can't. I think Clinton may have screwed us.

Electoral votes and popular votes should be taken into consideration, and how in the world is she stealing this election by fighting for every state to have a say. Some of you people really do give of us all a bad name. If we are members of the progressive party then it would help if we think progressively instead of making stupid statement.

Not watching the news. I can barely believe it myself. But I started to watch, and they're saying the same things over and over and it's not even very good stuff to begin with.

And if Obama can keep it within 10, I will sleep good.

The rules have been in place since long before the votes were cast. The rules say you need delegates. Hillary is trying to change the rules.

And I'm from Colorado, one of those caucus states that don't count, which also happens to be one of those purples that Obama could win in November. (I saw a bunch of Obama yard signs last night in Denver - none for any other candidate.) How rude is it to come to Colorado in August and tell all its residents that their part in the nominations "didn't count."

It's delegates. It's always been delegates. She's just trying to change the rules midstream.

I'm bummed out. I knew it was coming, but it still bothers me. Kinda like when someone you know is dying, then it happens. You knew it, yet it still has an emotional impact.

Coolisaac:
We can debate electoral votes.
They have absolutely no bearing on a primary. You could nominate a crash dummy in New York and California and they would beat McCain.

If Obama is the nominee, Ed Rendell will work just as hard as he did for Clinton. All the Democrats have pledged to come together. The fact is that a blue state is a blue state, (more or less) so no matter who the nominee is they'll stay blue. One thing I can say is that because Obama is stronger among independents he puts more states in play that are considered battleground. Independents favor McCain heavily over Clinton. That's not always apparent in primaries due to voting regulations determined by the state. In the general Independents can swing about a half dozen states.

So, actually, your argument regarding electoral votes favors Obama.

I do think the primary process needs changing, but that's an issue for after the election isn't it?

The Clintons were instrumental in setting up this primary schedule and it's super tuesday quasi national primary BS.

They made the rules when they thought it would fit them, but now that they've mismanaged their way to being so far behind, they want to change the rules.

No deal. After the election, I will be right with them to change the process, but not in mid stream.

End this hopeless endeavor. Supers, grow a spine.

This is the beginning of the end for Hillary. She needed a double-digit win. From here on out, it gets truly pathetic.

Weren't they saying before that the delegate count was more important than the popular vote count?
Oh, wait, that was last month.

These people have changed their story just about every time there's a primary, trying to make it look like she's going to Win! Big! this year at the convention.
Not going to happen.
I'd say that I feel sorry for her, but why should I feel sorry for someone who's a poor loser?

Tom Brokaw said it best tonight: "The Clintons will move the goalpost, claim any right to the nomination, whatever it takes to stay in the race with the hope that Obama's campaign might destruct." But when it comes down to it, it's really all noise. For all their jumping up and down and yelling for MI and FL to be counted, etc. the truth is Hillary's only way to victory is for Obama to completely fall off the map. And every time we turn on cable news and listen to the pundits, we are partner to the media's scheme to keep the election going--as they aggressively jump on any dirt Hillary throws at Obama. His supporters need to quit feeding the sharks! Turn it off.

might be worth taking a look at recent mccain vs. obama, mccain vs. clinton polls in some of the key states. like OH and FLA. pretty interesting, although of course polls are suspect at best and spurious at worst.

how do we rationalize this?

If Obama has problems, than by definition of the race, Hillary has more problems.

She has no chance to catch him in the pledged delegate race. She is around +10 tonight. He's still up +155.

She also has no chance to catch him in popular vote. He'll get +150,000 from NC next week.