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Gallup: Hillary And Obama Both Electable In Purple States
While both Democratic campaigns are arguing that they're the best ones to compete in the swing states, a new polling analysis from Gallup finds that they are equally competitive against John McCain in the key areas.
In the 12 states where President Bush or John Kerry won by less than six points, Obama leads McCain by a margin of 47%-43%. For her part, Hillary Clinton leads McCain by ... 47%-43%.
Don't worry, though -- we're sure each of the campaigns' spinmeisters will find something to pick through here.
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This hurts Clinton, in my estimation. Her whole argument is based upon a notion of greater electability, and after having effectively flushed that down last night with the "Yes, yes, yes" answer, this can't help. That said, it remains to be seen how closely these polls are followed.
April 17, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's nothing to spin Kleefeld, nothing "to worry" about, no reason to furrow your purty little face.
Clinton says Obama can beat McCain.
Obama says Clinton can beat McCain
THERE IS NO ELECTABILITY ISSUE
Another Clinton myth bites the dust
April 17, 2008 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
5 days till the people of pennsylvania vote....
Will Hillary win by single or double digits??
Will Obama some how pull off a surprise win, if so how big of a win??
How many delegates will Hillary & Barack get out of pennsylvania??
April 17, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
How many delegates will Hillary & Barack get out of pennsylvania??
It'll most likely be a net 10-20 delegates one way or the other. Not significant.
April 17, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
See the CQ article. It could be much less, even
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmspage.cfm?docID=news-000002703375
April 17, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I read "even" as "Evan" and was like, 'How the fuck does this guy know my name?!'
April 17, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I got skillz.
April 17, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am glad you asked. The ever insightful Poblano has run the numbers and he is predicting a 12 delegate, 120K popular vote pickup for Sen Clinton. Translation, not nearly enough for her to be really competitive in the end.
April 17, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
WHO is behind the Barack Obama for President
"moo-vement"?
........ GE ....and a gaggle of other corporate elitists.
Are a lot of working class Americans Bitter?
Well, they SHOULD be: Another GE candidate for President (SOLD to the public by the Corporate-Controlled "Mainstream MEDIA)...Ronald Reagan...began the MASSIVE Robbery of the American people that has continued to this day.
About every day the TV Talking heads say: "The Rich are getting richer and everybody else is getting poorer"
...& You'd Think...after nearly 30 years the NEWS People would FINALLY ASK: (& Answer) WHY?
The answer is simple: Reagan cut the top tax rate down from the 70%'s to the low 30%'s.
(If you made $100 million & your tax rate was 70% you would pay $70 million to Uncle Sam & keep $30 million...earning interest, or dividends THE NEXT YEAR on that $30 million. If, instead, you paid $30 million in taxes and KEPT $70 million-You'd make a lot MORE money the next year on that $70 million)
Simple: tax the rich a lot less AND they damn sure WILL get a whole lot richer a whole lot faster. There was 2 PARTS to Reaganomics tho. The second part was: "The Two-Tier Wage Structure"
i.e. Pay the Top level "executives" a Whole LOT MORE; Pay everybody else a Whole LOT LESS. (Newspapers & TV in the early 80's had articles & coverage of the "Two-Tier Wage Structure" that CORPORATE America trotted out IN CONCERT with Reagan's election & tax cuts.)
IF its CORPORATE POLICY to PAY Everybody else a WHOLE LOT LESS-everybody else is going to get-a whole lot poorer...huh?
a. It was deliberate. b. Its been going on for nearly 30 years.
Next Question: Is Obama likely to fix it?
Answer: Hell No. Because THE SAME PEOPLE are running him for President - The SAME WAY they got Reagan/ Bush1 / Bush2 elected: MEDIA PROPAGANDA.
GE owns MSNBC & NBC. AOL Time Warner owns CNN. Westinghouse owns CBS. (GE is the 2nd largest corporation on the planet). They have interlocking directorships. THEY ARE the Corporate-Controllers of the Corporate-Controlled Media.
MSNBC/NBC have become the CHIEF propaganda mouthpieces of the Obama Pushers (BOPN-Barack Obama Propaganda Networks)-just like FOX has been the the Bush Propaganda Network all these years.
There are no more Journalists, no more NEWS People. They have all become court jesters & clowns doing their bit to please their corporate masters..Top Level..PAID A WHOLE LOT MORE---Media whores.
Here's a glimpse of ONE of the $Billions of TAXPAYER-RIPOFF-Reasons GE wants to "elect" Obama President: GE & Westinghouse are in the business of building nuclear power plants. GE & Westinghouse are planning to reap BILLIONS in RISK-FREE Profits from building those nukes, AND, from the $High Dollar electricity rates those nukes will produce. ( They're planning to build one of those nuclear power plants in Pennsylvania.)
The Cheney Energy Bill passed in 2005 - made it possible for the nuclear industry to begin planning to build 29 new nuclear power plants (licensing hearings are already scheduled for the first few of them).
No new nuke plants were built for 30 years because the banks wouldn't loan the money - too risky. The Cheney Energy Bill solved that problem by Guaranteeing TAXPAYER PAYBACK of any of the nuke loans that default (The Congressional Budget Office rated the risk of default at 50% or greater)
Obama voted FOR the Cheney Energy Bill. Clinton voted against. Clinton says her Energy plan does not include nuclear & if they want to be considered they will have to FIRST Make it Cheaper and find a safe way to dispose of the nuke waste.
McCain, this week on the Campaign trail said...we just have to face it we need to start building new, "CLEAN", nuclear power plants.
i.e. The Corporate Elitists are running OBAMA AND McCain for President.
("Getting off coal to go to nuclear is like giving up cigarettes to take up smoking crack".)
April 17, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Get help. Please.
April 17, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, your posting is like the adults in Peanuts: just a lot of unintelligible noise. A baby seal cries every time you post.
April 17, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree it's a huge conspiracy of the rich powers to have the entire country controlled by a black ma- oh wait...
Huh?
April 17, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Time has Obama winning the debate with a B+ to Clinton's B.
April 17, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I rewatched the first half blood bath and actually the more I watched it the better I thought Obama did.
April 17, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary's dog with a bone impression in the first hour is where I think she lost it: her sole intention was to bring Obama down, not to promote herself. Obama held his own and I didn't find him at all "peevish". I'll give him points for not rising to the Bosnia bait.
I'll give Hillary points for presentation during the issues discussion (i.e., the second hour). Overall, though, I didn't think either swayed the undecideds into their respective camps. I thought it was a wash, which did no good for Clinton and no harm to the front runner, Obama. I guess we'll see on Tuesday.
April 17, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah. Obama passed on Bosnia, and actually defended her slip-up. But Hillary took every chance to pile-on him - and would end each attack by saying, "Now, I think that's an issue that surely the Republicans will bring up" as if saying, "hey, I'm not attacking you. I'm just saying the Republicans will..."
April 17, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Which is why I can't think of Clinton as anything but a crytporepublican. If that's my choice in November....not sure, yet.
April 17, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
that's "cryptorepublican"
April 17, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've only watched highlights, I didn't watch the full debate. Going by sound bites, Obama seems to have done fine.
April 17, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
He did okay. Not as good as in recent debates and he really seemed flustered in the 2nd half, but I think that is understandable considering the gang-bang he endured in the first half.
If we’re picking winners, it goes to McCain in a landslide. And ABC is the biggest loser. I think the outrage over ABC and the moderators is going to overshadow the candidates’ performance, for better or worse.
April 17, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
He did fine. His performance was all the more impressive since he was having to debate not only Clinton, but the moderators as well.
Seriously, I looked at the transcripts, and Gibson would just NOT stop interrupting Obama. He did it nearly a dozen times.
Clinton was allowed to finish her answers without interruption.
April 17, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, TIME seems to have it relatively accurate, although one thing I will say is that criticism of him about the taxes part seems like it was deserved.
April 17, 2008 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
So polling data suggest that both match up well against McCain (contrary to Clinton spin).
Clinton herself said that Obama can beat McCain.
He's ahead in pledged delegats and the popular vote, and keeps picking up superdelegates. He can raise more money than she can (and judging by the numbers on the Obama web page, they're raising some cash off last night's slimefest).
Tell me again why the trainwreck that is the Clinton campaign continues to unfold in front of us?
April 17, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is interesting, but in the end isn't this poll useless? It's impossible to derive any real meaning from it. For all we know one of the candidates has a huge lead in say Florida but is well behind McCain in all the other states. In other words, this isn't that much more meaningful than a nationwide poll. What I'd really like to see are the state by state reusults, but there aren't any links in the article to that info.
Oh . . . and ABC sucks.
April 17, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Plenty of other polls have shown her unable to win states like Oregon, Washington and Iowa, even Minnesota, and many others. I'm not at all convinced she could beat McCain in all of the blue states, let alone purple ones.
Plus, and perhaps most importantly, elections are about turnout, and what polls don't capture is that Hillary is HATED by conservatives, and if she were on the ballot they would turn out in record numbers to take her down (and every other Dem down the ballot). She is an electoral Typhoid Mary, a kiss of death, and that just takes common sense to see (and the polls don't hurt).
April 17, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
She lied about him winning but did a shot of Crown every time Obama lied.
I got hammered but spit out the crown on this whopper:
"Obama asked to explain his association with
radical Weather Underground bomber William Ayers:
Obama association with William Ayers, a radical activist who, as a member of the Weather Underground, planted bombs, got further attention during the debate. Ayers is on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago, where Obama also served. Obama was asked to explain his relationship with Ayers, including why he'd attended a political event in 1995 at Ayers' home."
Just a neighbor eh?
He does like to hang out with radicals.
A sure loser if the Dems are dumb enough to run him in the general.
April 17, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please explain how Clinto beats McCain. Every poll taken in the past three weeks puts McCain ahead of her.
April 17, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Bill Clinton sure liked to pardon radicals.
April 17, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, just a neighbor. Ayers is a college professor who lives in his neighborhood and is active in liberal politics, so they've crossed paths.
When Alice Palmer decided to give up her IL state senate seat and run for Congress, she put together and event, which was hosted by Ayers and his wife at their home, where she essentially introduced Obama to her supporters as her heir apparent.
Later, both he and Ayers happened to serve together on the board of the Woods Fund (Ayers is still on the board), which is a mainstream "grantmaking foundation whose goal is to increase opportunities for less advantaged people and communities in the metropolitan area" as stated in their mission statement. Why should Obama have quit that board just because Ayers was on it?
April 17, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
This analysis fails to account for red states which become purple for Obama, states such as Colorado, N. Dakota, Montana, and the split Nebraska electoral votes, among others. These are states where Hillary doesn't stand a chance. Of course, she does bring in Arkansas but the lastest polling there has been dismal, and it may fail to come through for her as Tennessee failed for Gore.
April 17, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good news, this. I was worried that we were giving McCain too much of an advantage by letting him run so long unopposed, but I guess that my worries were over-wrought.
April 17, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bad news for Hillary simply because anything that undercuts their claim last night was "game changing" is a serious negative. Hillary does well when she can flex her policy muscles while being gracious towards Obama (see LA debate) or when she's being tag-teamed. Neither happened last night. Instead she went on the attack from the start, and her body language hinted that she knew this wasn't where she wanted to go. She looked shifty and uncomfortable while twisting the knife. All of us have seen umpteen of these debates and know Obama can be good at them. But I suspect most voters haven't. Watching Obama take the worst from Clinton and the moderators and come out standing might end up working very well for him. He may just have proven he's as tough as her.
April 17, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Moo
April 17, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bah. where is the delete feature... that was meant to be a reply to el me spam
April 17, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just read the debate transcript and discovered how well Obama actually did in holding his own and articulating his message in spite of being piled-on.
Years ago, in a horse riding contest, my horse became almost impossible to handle due to his ears picking up an event outside the ring [where another horse from our string was being threatened]. My horse not only broke stride, but was rearing and misbehaving more than not, and even refused to stand still in the final line-up. Imagine my surprise when the judges called my name for the prize! When I was handed the ribbon, the judge said, 'this is for how you handled that horse... we saw what was happening.'
My hope is that the public will see what was happening in that debate and give Obama a prize for how he handled it.
April 17, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
haha, are you calling Hillary a horse.
Because I cannot stand for that ;)
April 17, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh wow, Hillary, Obama, and McCain horses. That would be fun to see! Someone ought to draw that. Oh, and do everyone else who ran too! I want to see a Mitt Romney horse!
April 17, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Considering the record number of newly registered and crossover democrats, I'd be interested to see the breakdown of those polled by state color. They give us the 2004 stats (36% Red; 33% Blue; 31% Purple) but no information regarding party affiliation to state on the recent poll. In fact, Jones even presumes that the numbers would stay the same as 2004, which I would highly doubt (granted, they were using actual voters from 2004 vs likely voters in 2008, but who would go to the effort to vote in a party's primary and then skip the general).
Can someone recommend a source to find updated data on the number of registered democrats/republicans at this point?
April 17, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to agree that this is bad for Hillary. Her only argument to the superdelegates is that she is more electable. If they're equally able to beat McCain, then there's simply no reason for the supers to go against the primary results, and there's no way in hell Clinton can really even get close in the pledged delegate race.
(I don't actually think that they're equally electable. I think Obama could win handily, but I think Clinton would go down in flames.)
April 17, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not this purple state. Clinton loses in Oregon and Washington State, while Obama wins, at least according to the polls I have seen on the poll tracking section of this site. It is a huge mistake to assume these two Pacific Northwest states are blue, they aren't. They are deep imperial purple. We have a lot of independents who swing the vote. It is these voters that will be the determining factor this year.
April 17, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ditto for my purple state, Colorado. Obama is popular here, and McCain is not. Obama has a solid chance to turn Colorado blue in 2008.
But Hillary, not a chance. Really, truly, not a chance in hell.
April 17, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a very important point. Much ballyhoo has been made over the fact that Clinton shows promise to flip OH blue while Obama does not. However, by the same token Clinton shows promise to flip WA and OR red, while Obama does not, and WA+OR=18 electoral votes, only a hair shy of OH's 20. In other words, all of this focus on big states obscures the fact that her effect would likely be an electoral college wash, no closer to a win than Kerry in 2004.
April 17, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
That poll doesn't reflect what I feel to be true, but I will accept it at face value.
April 17, 2008 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not sure if this was posted, but I think this was the best article I have uncovered thus far from the debate. At least Time didnt miss the overall point that is trying to be made.
Trivial Pursuit
Just in case it doesnt post properly, here is the direct link.
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1731655,00.html?xid=rss-politics-cnn
April 17, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not sure about that. Obama can have WA, OR, CO, NV, NM, ND, SD, & NE but without OH, PA, FL, VA & MO that's still a McCain win. (268/270) You have to be able to win one or more of those "big states" or all the purple in the world dosen't help. None of those "big" states currently show Obama beating McCain.
April 17, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
True, but none of those big states currently show Clinton beating McCain either. Meanwhile, the states where she is trending up against McCain are also the states where he is trending up against McCain. In other words, there is no significant evidence to suggest that she would do any better than he would in the "big" states in November.
April 17, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I beg to differ. If you would be so kind as to examine the data at say, Real Clear or Pollster, you would see that in fact HRC trounces McCain in OH , while Obama loses. In PA, again HRC beats McCain & Obama loses. In MO & FL they both lose, but McCain just crushes Obama. In VA McCain beats Obama by 9 points. Now remember the scenario posted above I was giving Obama ND, SD & NE which is probably a stretch & still a loss. So you are a serious guy around here. Explain to me how Obama can win without OH, PA, FL, MO or VA?
April 17, 2008 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I mean the reality of the demographics should also prove my point. HRC beats Obama in OH & PA on the back of white working class voters, who, in significant numbers will choose McCain over Obama. Obama's coalition has always been based on blacks, young people, liberals & crossover voters. For all the talk & enthusiasm it is demographically narrow. Which is why this is still a contest, Obama has been unable to expand it amongst the Democrats & arrive at a consensus. The party is being split along racial/class lines. That has been Obama's strategy to win the nomination. Why this anybody thinks this narrow coalition can carry the country is beyond me. ps out of curiosity what did you think about him dissing Carter?
April 17, 2008 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink