« Bill On Obama And The Debate: You Didn't Hear Hillary "Whining" | Home | Tonight On Colbert: Obama, Clinton and Edwards »

Dean: I Want Supers To Announce Their Endorsements "Starting Now"

Howard Dean is moving up his ultimatum for superdelegates to make their decisions by July 1: "I need them to say who they're for starting now."

"We cannot give up two or three months of active campaigning and healing time," Dean elaborated. In other words, the pressure is on to get a Democratic nominee as soon as possible, perhaps especially in light of the attacks that were flying around at last night's debate.


148 Comments

| Leave a comment
user-pic

The sooner the better.

I agree completely with Howard.Dont know if you all understand Dean's subtle take on the supers.What he is saying in effect is that he does know that the supers already know who they are backing and Howard is basically asking them to make their stand public, which is something I have long suspected of the uncomitted supers;They have already picked sides.Go supers...

I don't know. Legitimacy is a big issue with this nomination. While I welcome support for Obama, I would hope the issue of legitimacy will be settled after it's shown she can't win the nomination through popular or delegate votes. I realize it's practically there now, but as soon as the popular vote aspect is satisfied, then I think they should choose sides without dilly-dallying around.

Thank you Eric, big news!

Deo gratias.

And may the better man win.

I think it may be too little too late.
I am a strong supporter of Obama and I fervently
hope he gets elected president. But I really think Dean waited too long. I am feeling now as though McCain has a good shot.

user-pic

I think that if this gets decided rather quickly, you'll be surprised by the bounce Obama gets.

user-pic

Don't worry. McCain doesn't have a shot. Consider the current situation: Hillary is a million or so votes behind Obama. It's not a tie, but it's close. Obama has won states all across America--north and south, red and blue. But each candidate has raised more money--individually--than all the Republicans combined, and Democratic voter turnout has totally eclipsed Republican turnout. When the Democrats finally have a nominee, the party will suddenly become MILLIONS of voters stronger.

And don't worry about the Hillary supporters who say they won't back Obama. They're paying attention to the primary race right now. Once they get an earful of McCain, they'll be back in the party, pronto. Especially women like the ones who post on Hillary44 and places like that. They may not like Obama, but they'll be among his most enthusiastic supporters, because McCain is the enemy when it comes to a woman's right to choose.

There's nothing to worry about. This is going to be HUGE year for the Democrats.

Screw July!

They should decide by July 4th.

No reason not to by that point.

Argh, June 4, of course.

user-pic

It's OK - it's late.

user-pic

It's very late. They should decide in May. They should decide by Derby Day. At the latest.

user-pic

We knew what you meant.

Translation: get out of the race, Hillary, you awful, awful human being.

user-pic

Agreed. She's putting her personal goals ahead of the party. That was fine for awhile, but now she's only doing damage. She can't win. The numbers are completely against her.

whoa there folks! Lets not take a leaf from the GOP's talking points or Hillary's own negative campaign by bashing her.Remember we are all on the same side and will need to come together after Denver and gang against the GOP.

Here are the latest poll numbers:

Based on all the most recent head-to-head polls in each state + DC as conducted by Survey USA:

Hillary: 292
McCain: 236
Tie: 10

Obama: 242
McCain: 296

Yeah supers, what say you?

Interesting. Where can one find these numbers?

Here ya go.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/17/18544/6245

You may want to watch the Colbert Report tonight.

Obama, Clinton and Edwards will appear.

Hey shit for brains, the election is in November, not May.

Dukakis was up by 17 points the week of the Dem convention in 1988.

June 3rd. Goodbye.

Thanks turd blossum.

He wants the super to decide by July 1.

Did you read his post sparky?

Moot point no life. Obama is the winner.

Hey dope, the last primary is on June 3rd. It's over then.

See ya. Goodbye. Don't let the bitterness hit you in the ass on the way out.

Okay genius.

Lets let all the votes count and see what happens.

Goodbye.

June 3rd is goodbye.

Until then you can keep up the death throes. It's kind of cute. But work on your photo. It's too much of a wide shot to be effective.

user-pic

A Springsteen verse for Hillary and Bill:


Well I went to leave twenty years ago
Since then I guess I been packin' kinda slow
Sure did like that admirin' touch
Guess I like'd it a little too much

The moon is high and here I am
Sittin' here with this hammer in hand
One more drink oughta ease the pain
Starin' at that last link in the chain
Well let's raise our glass and let this hammer fly
Hey yeah this is the long goodbye
Hey yeah this is the long goodbye
Kiss me baby and we're gonna fly
Hey yeah this is the long goodbye

user-pic

I for one have no problem with that since Obama wins that way.

You're not very good with math, eh?

Based on the latest SURVEYUSA polls, the Electoral math would break down as follows:

Clinton v. McCain Toss-Up
245 255 38

Obama v. McCain Toss-Up
271 267 0


But you're not one for facts.

Obama gets North Dakota, Iowa, Michigan, Oregon, Washington while losing Ohio and Florida.

Clinton loses Michigan, Iowa, North Dakota, Colorado, possibly Minnesota, Oregon, and Wisconsin while gaining Ohio and possibly Florida.

Anyway, it's all voo-doo at this point.

user-pic

Ahem - and Texas dammit - he won Texas.

Hey, Tena! Check out this Votemaster website. I think Obama has a good shot at winning Texas in the general election. McCain is currently polling only one point ahead of Obama!

Imagine! Texas could go Democratic for the first time since 1976!

Dear Ms Jordan,

I know that you are Texan yourself, so I will take your word for it that he could swing your fair state. That would be wonderful beyond all telling. That said, even if he could not, if he just keeps it close enough that McCain has to sweat Texas, I think that would be great. Given our obvious fundraising advantages, spending money in Texas would hurt us far less than it would hurt McCain to have to spend money in Texas, and it could force him to back off of other states like OH or MO, so even if we did not win TX outright, I am still excited about the benefits that could flow from such poll numbers.

THANK YOU, Laura, for posting a link to that map! I'm bouncing in my desk chair (in my house near DFW airport) in excitement. Texas going Democrat would be... be... as excellent as when Ann Richards won governor. Maybe even better!

No kidding!

I've had the feeling for months that Obama would be just the right Democrat to appeal to Texans. This hasn't been based on anything rational, of course--it's just my intuition.

I can't wait to see how things turn out in November!!

Just thought I'd mention that the last poll they have for Texas (encouraging as it is) is a little out of date. It's a SurveyUSA poll from the end of February.

I'd bet a new poll will come out soon with McCain up by 10 against Obama and 20 or so against Clinton.

Obama will catch up though. Polls showing McCain rising nationally are not to be trusted. He's done so little to warrant anyone's attention that what they're really polling is Obama/Clinton versus a generic Republican. And considering that McCain has been the nominee for a month and a half, that is nearly as horrible a performance as Rudy Giuliani gave us a few months ago.

If you really want to gauge how well McCain will do when the race starts in earnest, follow Clinton's support against Obama. She has melded with him on so many issues lately that you can guess how well he will do by how well she is doing. Keep in mind he will have less money, is not as good a campaigner, and has less support in his own party than she currently does.

There are going to be some really strange states turning blue this year. Texas could very well be one of them.

user-pic

Good link.

But what's really scary is the Hillary vs McCain map. It's a blowout for McCain. Hillary barely takes CA and NY and almost the entire country is deep red against Hillary.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/Apr17.html

btw: everybody realizes gotalife is a Republican troll right?

I keep waiting to find out that gotalife is actually the undergrad thesis of some Barnard Art major. No one is that self absorbed.

user-pic

Uh, actually...if you read the post, genius, it says Dean is moving up his ultimatum of July 1, so it'll actually be sooner. Which was the whole point of his statement.

You really do read whatever you want, eh?

Aww... behind in delegates, states won, popular vote, and public opinion... But when you are voting for McCain in November, you'll always have that April 17th SUSA poll to think back on and smile.

Good for youuuu!

gotalife,

The Votemaster website offers a more sophisticated electoral map calculator:


Their current calculation is

Clinton: 240
McCain: 298

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/Apr17.html


Obama: 237
McCain: 277
Tie: 24

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/Apr17.html

I predict 300+ for Obama in the fall.

Laura,

That site gives McCain New York based on one Marist college poll--so you can immediately add 31 to Obama and subtract it from McCain.

Ain't no way NY is voting for McCain.

True, NY knows better, they happen to be smarter than that.

I think you're right.

That Marist poll shows McCain doing well against both Obama and Clinton right now (even Clinton's margin over McCain is only 2 points); however, I'm sure this is largely due to the fact that Dems are still in their primaries, and McCain has been getting a free ride in the media lately.

Even though both candidates are polling behind McCain at this point, I think they both have a good shot at beating him in the general election. Once the Democrats begin highlighting how little McCain and the Republicans have to offer Americans, these poll numbers will begin to change.

user-pic

The numbers posted by nolife, as others have also pointed out, are fabricated.

I hope everybody realizes nolife is a GOP troll.

user-pic

Oh, shit. I had no idea. Obama lost. Shit. I musta dozed off or something. What day is it...?

And here are some more numbers:

Obama 1626

Clinton 1486

NB: These are actual numbers won NOT a poll, but I see those numbers gotalife.

Unless I'm misunderstanding this process, Dean has little power to make anything happen. He can cajole and persuade, but the supers will do what they decide to when it works for them.

So it really isn't that "Dean waited too long," all he can do is wait for a good opportunity to make a pitch, when he thinks folks will be most open to it.

But I wouldn't expect any significant movement in the next week at least; I'm sure the vast bulk of undecideds will at the very least wait for PA to play out, and unless Obama can win it, will probably wait till at least after IN and SC.

At that point, assuming that what we're expecting actually happens (i.e. a solid but not blowout PA win for Hillary, either candidate winning IN relatively closely, and a big win in NC for Obama), we'll start to see some decisions being made.

Can't be soon enough, I'll tell ya that!!

"So it really isn't that Dean waited too long, all he can do is wait for a good opportunity to make a pitch, when he thinks folks will be most open to it".

And your the judge of when that "good opportunity is" after having said "Dean has little power to make anything happen"

Doesn't make much sence!

Very good call by Mr. Dean.
She can't win. She can only destroy.
Time to drown her in the bathtub.

Dean is playing Burgess Meredith to Obama's "Baracky."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyhIBXNfqMA

About time!

Great, now the Stealing of the Nomination for Obama with the help of Howard Dean. This will be the doom of the party!

June 3rd. Mark it on the calendar.

You had me at "stealing".

user-pic

And what the fuck would Clinton overriding the will of the voters who put Obama in the lead be, exactly? An early Christmas gift? For a supporter of a candidate who wants to count states in which no one competed and keeps intimating that pledged delegates can be swayed, you have some damn nerve talking about "stealing".

Hee! You literally said DOOM! Wanna go for "woe is me?"

Dean should have pressed this point home a month ago, but at least he did it now.

user-pic

You now, I adore you - who doesn't with that gravatar?

But I disagree - it would have been too soon, I think. I'm good with this.

course I do love the guy - I think he's largely responsible for saving this party.

I hope this does mean it's almost over. It's gone from Silly Season to Surreal Season and not in a good way. It's just destructive and serves no purpose at all now - she can't win.

Time to stop it.

:)

user-pic

you know

damn rented fingers.

I know, so true. Well, I will just keep donating, I want Obama strong and ready for the fall.

user-pic

I feel you, girl. Sent him $50 yesterday (admittedly, it was for a fleece for my lady's birthday, but still, it's a donation).

If I were that lady, I would be very happy you did that. Way to go!

It's about time. I'm sick of the leadership cowering down from the Clintons. There is no way the superdelegates can overturn an election that millions of people have participated in. They need to stand up and support the candidate once and for all. This election was over in February.

Did he say "please"?

Louisville1975:

Great, now the Stealing of the Nomination for Obama with the help of Howard Dean. This will be the doom of the party!

After his North Carolina rout this idiot argument will no longer be saleable to a majority of democrats. A threshold will be passed after N.Carolina. She won't be able to argue anymore these two completely asinine points:

1) Everyone's voice should be heard.
2) All the pledged delegates should ignore their pledges and vote for me.

Her house of cards will collapse.
She is a dead in the water now of course...
But North Carolina... will deep six her for all to see.

So, its now the slogan is going to ring out. AS NORTH CAROLINA GOES....SO GOES THE NATION? And you expect people to put up with that nonsense? Superdelegates, what remains should stay out of this and let the delegates decide it in Denver. Nuf said.

Wait, what happened to "Superdelegates should vote their conscience"?

They should vote their conscience, but they should do it soon. I don't think he is tilting towards Obama in saying this. It is Hillary who claims she has an inside track on the superdelegates. That is the whole point of her staying in the race. So if there is anyone who wants the superdelegates to make up their mind soon, it should be Clinton. In fact, if I were Clinton, and I were as confident as she claims to be, I would want them to decide by tomorrow noon.

Except for those 100 supers Hillary had locked up before the voting even started...I assume you'll want to keep those??

You'll have to excuse Louisville Lip. He suffers from cranial damage.

What I find totally staggering is WHEN did HRC become such a hate figure? Surely she was'nt this much hated a year ago...oh wait a minute...!

What was up with HRC saying she would attack any nation that went after Israel? Isn't that a Bush/McCain tone? She is starting to scare me with the war mongering.

And the crazy umbrella idea! WTF?

Umbrella idea is nuts, but I see nothing wrong with her promising to help Israel out.

user-pic

I hit on this last night. Check out my post complete with vid from the campaign trail. This isn't the first time she's rolled out the Bush/Cheney stance on Iran.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/04/hillary-vows-massive-retaliati.php

It's time to start hitting McCain as hard as Clinton has been hitting Obama.

I think any polls taken right now are misleading. McCain's got a ton of soft support.

user-pic

Obama, in my opinion, needs to start running strictly against McCain. To me, that's the best way to advertise himself to voters - as the nominee, number one, and the best candidate to take down McCain. And show no mercy to him while giving her almost every deference - the supers will love that.

user-pic

In the "picture's worth a 1000 words" arena:

http://www.pollster.com/08-US-Dem-Pres-Primary.php

So much for bittergate.

You were expecting accuracy from gottalie?

You may be wondering where he got the numbers he posted, since the link he cited was for 14 new polls. How did he extrapolate from that to a prediction about the electoral college results? Did he just pull the numbers out of his ass?

The answer is, no, he didn't just pull them out of his ass. He pulled them out of someone else's ass. If you go to the link he posted someone else posted them in the comments, without a link to back up the claim of course.

Dean should chill out. After abdicating his leadership to resolve FL and MI, he's at it again trying to disenfranchise voters in State yet to hold their primaries.
The debate last night was revealing. Some of the information about the candidates that came out were new to me or I only had sketchy picture. Voters need to have clear and complete information on the candidates they're making a choice on. This is after all for the Presidency of the USA.
Dean just ought to follow the democratic process in place for the part and not short circuit the process.

Dean did not abdicate his leadership re: FL and MI. AND, the states should take responsibility for their own actions, and violating DNC rules. Whining after the fact is just childish. The debate last night was revealing?! Why, did you finally realize the media has no clue what our issues are here in average America? Dean's job is to run the DNC, he had every right and should call on the delegates to make up their mind. You are totally wrong in your logic, or lack of.

Do you know how to get the candidate websites? There all there. If you asked the same questions, you'll get stump speeches which you have heard in their campaigns and previous debates.
It's revealing what Obama's sentiments are judging from his close associations with Rev. Wright, Ayers, his refusal to wear the flag pin and his attitude in the way he talked down to poor small town America insulting them of their intelligence and way of life.
What you want to hear from the candidates are stuff they're not comfortable with and stuff they don't want you to hear or know about. It gives you the person behind the campaign slogans.

And why the fuck should McCain continue to skate along? We need a nominee now so we can start hitting him because we ALL KNOW the media won't do it themselves. Not when they're fascinated by our self-destructive contest.

I'm sick of this bullshit. I'm sick of this process. I'm eager to see it short-circuited.

Quote regarding age today:

Democratic lawmaker John Murtha, 75, a Vietnam war veteran and supporter of Senator Hillary Clinton's White House candidacy, said McCain was too old to be president.

"This one guy running is about as old as me. Let me tell you something, it's no old man's job," Murtha said.

DISENFRENCHFRY!!!!!

Yotin;
I understand your point but the time frame Dean is mentioning allows for all the primaries to be completed. None of us want this to drag on for 2 months after the primaries.
The Supers should be able to make their votes known within a reasonably short time after the last primary.
It will serve no positive purpose to allow behind the scenes campaigning to continue after the last primary.
I do not think any of us need to worry-they will do the right thing-the primaries will dictate that.

What gives Howard Dean the right today to demand that superdelegates decide now who they support so he can shut down the primary?! This is absurd and insulting. It was a mistake and embarrassment to make him chair and his actions today confirm that mistake. He should resign!

There are nearly a dozen states yet to vote, plus seating the Michigan and Florida delegates. Coming a day after Obama's disasterous debate performance in Philadelphia I suspect he wants to cut short any further opportunity for Obama's campaign to collapse by securing him the nomination now. Never mind that Obama can't and won't win in the fall. Maybe the superdelegates will see this writing on the wall and instead tell Dean, fine, we support Clinton. Will Dean then accept Obama's concession?

This whole episode by Dean is absurd and is at best undemocratic. I trust that Clinton will resist and I hope that she and others in the party call for Dean's resignation. Whether he resigns or not, Clinton should take the campaign to the convention.

Matthew
http://www.TheIndependentView.com

Matthew, wrong weaving as usual. Dean has the right as head of the DNC, it is his job to do so. Actually, it is often yourself that is insulting and should resign from blogging.

He screwed up handling Michigan and Florida. Trying now to disenfranchise the remaining states is maybe fitting for his record but this is bad for the party.

BTW, yes he can ask how they might vote, though I think this is in poor taste. To demand in and to suggest he'd hold them to it so he could crown a winner now ignores the primary process and, as I mentioned, the remaining voters yet to cast their votes.

Matthew
http://www.TheIndependentView.com

If he insists on this there will be a mass exodus of folks out of this party.

Helloooo!! Conveniently forgetting about those 100 SDs had locked up before the voting even started. If supers endorsing equals voter disenfranchisment, then what about those? Just because supers endorse doesn't mean the people won't vote. Your logic is so twisted anyway. What do you mean let the people vote? So that you can overturn their votes with the supers later? The sooner you guys start getting used to the idea that Obama won, the better for you. Really.

user-pic

You know, I've seen this point made about 100 times, but I've yet to see it answered.

I agree that calling for a quick end to this will alienate some folks, and I expect that there will be some splintering of the party regardless of how this ends. That said, it seems to me that the best way to avoid a mass exodus is to end this soon. It is obvious that feelings are getting hotter and hotter the longer this drags on. I dare say that if this really were allowed to go all the way to Denver, there would be an even larger mass exodus to follow than there will be if the process is brought to a halt in the next several weeks. In other words, undesirable as the end which Gov Dean is proposing might seem, I dare say that it is less undesirable than the alternatives.

user-pic

It's really sad that people like you claim to be Democrats and expect to be believed.

What does your dismissive comment have to do with the rightness or absurdity of Dean's actions?

Matthew
http://www.TheIndependentView.com

user-pic

Nothing, if you couldn't already tell. It's the fact you seem to be actively rooting for Obama's defeat that's making me sick. If Clinton were to mystically, magically, majestically ascend to the nomination, I'd vote for her.

Dude, you're supporting a candidate that bragged on national TV that the race would be over on Super Tuesday. Don't give me that crap about "all the states haven't voted yet". I live in PA, and I was fully prepared for my primary vote not to mean diddly. Sure, it's nice to have the candidates showing my state some love, but would I rather the Dem candidate be running against McCain right now, regardless of who he or she was? Hell yes.

You only seem interested in Obama's defeat, and being an insufferable prick on these threads. That's why it's sad more than anything. I hope that made it clear for you.

Lastly, Dean's 100% right. He didn't call on them to make a decision today. He merely wants to have as much general election time to heal the rifts in the party caused mainly by guys like you. So, a) it's not nearly as dramatic a declaration as you'd have it seem, Madea, and b) it actually is a good thing for the party, regardless of who's nominated.

Dean just ought to follow the democratic process in place for the part and not short circuit the process.
How is it short circuting the process, when this is the process? Dean is the head of the DNC, the SDs are under him. He is saying now in more concrete terms exactly what he's been saying all along -- the nominee must be decided before the convention.

All 50 states (as well as Puerto Rico, Dems Abroad, am I missing anyone else?) will have had their say by June 3rd. (Dean's 50 State strategy fleshed out). Any undecided SDs who want to wait until after June 3rd can then take nearly a month to cast their vote. Seems fair enough.

By the way MI and FL delegates will be seated after June 3rd. 50-50 split. Mark my words.

I am no prophet, but I predict differently than you. I predict that the supers will come out for Obama in overwhelming numbers (including a large number of defections from the Clinton camp) in a little over a month. At that point, Obama's lead will be so substantial that in order to lay the issue to rest, he will agree to seat the FL and MI delegations as they stand because he will know that it will not make a difference. I hope that he will insist, however, that those state's superdelegates do not get seated, because they are the ones who caused the problem in the first place so it would be fitting punishment to make them wear the dunce cap.

Nice. I will gladly take your prediction just as well! Now just counting down the days....

The best part of that prediction will be the sound you will hear of the heads of Louisville, Dembillc, Taylor Marsh and all her myriad minions exploding.

Actually, I take that back - that will not be the best part. It will merely be the second best part. The really best part will be to hear the sighs of relief from Clinton supporters of good will like BSLev as they realize that Obama is not some tyrannical monster, bent on disenfranchising democratic voters.

Never mind that Obama can't and won't win in the fall. Maybe the superdelegates will see this writing on the wall and instead tell Dean, fine, we support Clinton.

Weaver and gottalie (among others) say it's clear that Obama can't win in the fall if nominated.

If they really think it's that clear, then they should be glad for Dean to call for the supers to make their decisions now. Hillary is losing ground in PA, with the gap closing from 25% to 10% or less in the last several weeks. Hillary is losing ground in the national polls. She's still lagging him badly in fundraising. Her approval numbers are nearly as low as they've ever been since Bill left office. The corroborations are piling up for the "screw'em" quote (which somehow got overlooked when she was "already vetted") and how's that going to work out for her if the story starts getting traction in the last few days before the PA primaries?

Sure, Obama could stumble again. He could have his own "Tuzla", with embarrassing video. But after pinning so much hope on Wright and then again on "bitter," and watching it not turn out the way they so desperately hoped it would, why should they take that gamble?

If it's as obvious as Hillary supporters say that Obama simply cannot win the general, then the supers have an easy decision, and the sooner they make it the better it is for Hillary.

Then again, Weaver and gottalie (and the others) might simply be lying.

Yeah, well if it is so bad for her why can't he seem to close the deal? He fully had a chance with the Ohio and Texas to seal it up and get it over with but did he? He has had his minions that include Howard Dean trying to lay the pressure on for a stoppage of this. Yet, He can't seem to get it done. And, if he is such a strong candidate and the Nominee then he should be handily winning Democratic strongholds like PA.

I am tired of hearing this crap how he is this great Candidate when he has had the lead now since the start of the year and done what with it? Nothing. He hasn't won but 3 traditional Democratic states and one of them is his home state! That to me speaks of a vastly weak Candidate that can't even marshall a win in Democratic states.

Lets face it. The truth is he built his lead on states that aren't going to vote republican in the fall. All the polling that Josh has shown over the last month points to it. He built his lead on states that yes "don't matter" in an electoral sense. To force this nomination to be decided before Denver is a travesty and the Party will pay dearly in the Pres election and many many down ticket races.

insert "are" for aren't

Louisville;
With the possible exception of Florida there is no evidence that Obama will not carry most of the states that HRC won in. Besides-if we were to vote again today, he would probably win several of the earlier primaries.

We have really got to get together here-no one is trying to overturn the will of the voters. Neither Obama nor HRC argued against the rules as sated by the DNC when Mi and FL decided to vote early.

This is going to be the clearest election choice for decades.

Who do we want to rule the Supreme Court-Scalia or a progressive that HRC or Obama will appoint when Steven retires (he will be 89 next year!)

Why are you parroting Republican talking points? I'll sum it up for you succinctly: Clinton has her name recognition (and the misty memories of her husband's administration), as well as the entire Democratic machine behind her. Obama is the true underdog, the improbable front runner.

The better question should be, why couldn't Clinton seal the damn deal on Feb 5th? Huh?

Thirdly, think about Howard Dean's 50 state strategy. It is nothing short of brilliant and will rewrite the electoral college map.

Obama closed the deal in February.

It's just that Hillary has stayed in the race so she can do as much damage to Obama as she possibly can and make him lose to McCain in November so she can run again in 2012.

The battle for the nomination ended in February, and Hillary knows it. For her, it's all about 2012 now.

I am tired of hearing this crap how he is this great Candidate when he has had the lead now since the start of the year and done what with it?

Kept it.

I strongly DENOUNCE and REJECT this kind of thinking.See, Obama has built his campaign (that gave him the current lead), not on divisive and negative tactics but on solid policies that HAVE convinced most of the voters (hence the lead)that he is the better candidate to take this great nation forward.The fact that he is sill winning and his numbers always go up, is an indication of the potential to clinch the presidency in November.I understand that his opponents may feel bitter about these facts but Obama is the better candidate.But you Obama haters are free to cling on to your only slight chance of your own candidate getting the nomination. But I digress...

Scientific,

What is really "insufferable" is the Obama Cult that sees Obama as some form of Savior, The Chosen One per Oprah and Farrakhan. Obama is instead a flim-flam man with a fantasy record, omissions, misstatements, and lies. His words and associations are laced with hate and racism. He is a divisive candidate that deflects when challenged, often blaming others. And today, as an example, he whines about the unfairness of the questions when exposed.

If it was only so simple as to tell you all to grow up that'd be great, but I do hope you run out of Kool-Aid soon.

Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com

Do you really expect to be taken seriously when you start a comment with "What is really "insufferable" is the Obama Cult that sees Obama as some form of Savior, The Chosen One per Oprah and Farrakhan."

Well, insufferable was Scientific's word, The Chosen One is from Oprah and Farrakhan. Are you concerned with your association with Oprah?

How about Wright, Meeks, Ayers, Rezko, and Auchi?

Are you saying that you agree that small town America "clings" to their religion?

Are you saying that you agree with racist stereotypes such as "typical White person"?

Shall I go on?

Matthew
http://www.TheProblemWithObama.com

Dear Matthew: You are going to be so sad in November. I believe to offset your upcoming depression, you get started on your anti-depressant right now.

Your badgering of Obama tells all of us supporting him that you REALLY fear the man will win. So as long as you continue to point out petty abstracts and talking points, I feel good. It confirms you are scared about the future. I predict he will make yours much better upon winning.

user-pic

Oh, my goodness. The "typical White person" shit is COMPLETELY out of context, and you fucking know it. I'm so sick of this.

I was ACTUALLY LISTENING to WIP when the interview was happening, and it was completely obvious what he meant when he said it. And you don't know the the first fucking thing about racism if you think that's racist. Really. That is so unbelievably ignorant, and this cannot stand anymore. I'm sorry, Matt. Your bullshit has to end somewhere.

I'm so sick of people who are always telling me when I should or shouldn't be offended when stuff that's actually racist happens, all while getting tense when Obama even says the word 'white'. Please. Save it. I'm so sick of people like you in these threads insulting folks' intelligence with drivel like that.

And I assume you have the same degree of outrage when Bill Clinton said the view that Obama's been against the Iraq War consistently is a fairytale and the Obama campaign shortened it to Obama's campaign has been a fairytale and accused Bill of playing the race card?

If Hillary said the "typical black person", everyone would be up in arms. Why does Obama get a pass?

user-pic

I must be really bored. Here we go:

What is really "insufferable" is the Obama Cult that sees Obama as some form of Savior, The Chosen One per Oprah and Farrakhan.

Dude.

The amount of generalizing and sterotyping you're doing here is unreal. You know why we can't have debate, Matt? You come to the discussion with a laundry list of assumptions about Obama supporters, mainly that we're a bunch of brainwashed cultists who hang out at Farrakhan's mosque in our free time. How can anyone be expected to take you seriously when you insult them at every turn?

Obama is instead a flim-flam man with a fantasy record, omissions, misstatements, and lies.

According to you. Judging by the fact you make assumptions by the bushel, I'm a lot less inclined to take you at your word. (See how that works?) I defy you to actually talk about this stuff objectively, and like an adult (flim-flam man?). A lot of us come on here to chat with adults, and it'd be nice if you acted like one.

His words and associations are laced with hate and racism.

Sigh.

I guess that's why all these heavily-White states have voted for him in landslides. Because he's racist. Do you actually believe this bullshit?

He is a divisive candidate that deflects when challenged, often blaming others. And today, as an example, he whines about the unfairness of the questions when exposed.

You cannot be this stupid. He's not whining about the unfairness of the questions. He's raising a complaint that many, including myself, raised while watching that inanity - why the hell are we talking about flag pins and Bill Ayres when people are losing their homes, don't have health care and our public education system's in the shitter? That's just the tip of the iceberg, guy. But you want to talk about that "gotcha" stuff, hey...knock yourself out. I know that as a Pennsylvania resident, I wanted to hear a lot more about issues that actually matter.

If it was only so simple as to tell you all to grow up that'd be great, but I do hope you run out of Kool-Aid soon.

Whatever. Condescending prick.

user-pic

Whines about unfairness? Obama did not whine - although many others, including myself are outraged.

However, Hillary whines at each and every turn:

"They are attacking me because I am a woman"
"How come I always get the first question"
"Why don't we ask if Obama wants a pillow"

Whaaaaaaa.

Excuse me? Who is the whiner?

This guy is a Republican who, on February 6th, decided to vote for McCain in November. No one here should listen to him.

Yet, He can't seem to get it done.

Well, first of all, you don't need to capitalize pronouns referring to Obama. At least not until after he gets the nomination.

Second, and I'm sorry to have to break this to you, but it's done. He's ahead in pledged delegates, and that's not going to change. The add-ons are in his favor, too. What it comes down to is that Hillary can only win if Obama has a total meltdown, and that would be just the same if he'd won Texas and Ohio.

Hillary has every right to continue hoping that Obama will have some sort of total meltdown. She hoped that Wright would do that to him; but it didn't. She hoped that "bitter" would do that to him; but it doesn't seem to be working out the way she hoped. She can hope that something else will come along, or that these will be rekindled (and she obviously keeps trying to make that happen).

But again, she's in essentially the same situation she'd be in if he'd won Ohio and Texas. He'd be slightly more ahead in the pledged delegates, but he's ahead anyway.

Ha ha! Whine on trolls!

That to me speaks of a vastly weak Candidate that can't even marshall a win in Democratic states.

And how would you describe a candidate who is doing even worse than this "vastly weak candidate" in pledged delegates, AND doing even worse than this "vastly weak candidate" in the popular vote, AND doing even worse than this "vastly weak candidate" in fundraising, AND doing even worse than this "vastly weak candidate" in the national polls?


I know you weren't asking me, but I'd describe her as former presidential candidate.

user-pic

Here's the real funny part - a good, substantive debate without all the "gotcha" crap would've helped CLINTON. She is admittedly very sharp - if not also pandering - in describing her policy positions, and a healthy debate would've helped the supers say, "Hey, a good hashing out of the issues helps our eventual nominee and the party in the end".

But when you have crap like last night transpire, what motivation is there for the supers to keep this race going? Nothing new was discussed, except for attack-dog nonsense that has no real traction. Please. They have to see that this is not productive for the country, or the party.

Pick Obama or Clinton. But do it now. How much more do they really need to see at this point? Or are they waiting to be promised something in return?

The level of discussion on this post is pretty disappointing.

user-pic

For that, I apologize for what I've done to bring the level down in here. I lost my temper a bit above, and I agree, it could be better in here. My apologies to everyone.

Scietnfic;
No need to apologize-the passion that both candidates have inspired is precisely what has been missing for too long.

This passion will help us put either HRC or Obama in the White House in January 2009.

With that said, Go Obama!!

Scientific
Sorry for mangling your moniker!

user-pic

"Are they waiting to be promised something in return?"

I'd say a bunch of them are waiting to be reassured that it's fair for them to state their positions now. Chairman Dean's call can probably help with that. If a few other big names will either do as he asked or agree with him that it's time, that will add to the confidence.

I'd also guess that more than a few are waiting to be sure that the Clinton machine can't do them big harm, and that's what's been holding them back. It's time for those folks to take a very small risk for the sake of the party and the country and announce that they want Obama.

Thirty of them--just thirty of over 300 who haven't committed--could end Clinton's superdelegate lead. And that, if it happens quickly, will tell everyone the game is over.

user-pic

My older brother works in the suburbs, and says that a fellow teacher he works with (who is active in local Dem politics here) said that Bill visited last year and basically told local Dem pols that if they didn't support Hillary their careers in politics were finished. So I would not be surprised that people like her all around the country are facing similar fears.

Over the past three weeks, Senator "Things are being done" Reid and others have been dropping hints that a behind the scenes effort to end the Democratic race ASAP is underway among the Democratic leadership. I think it's quite possible that, barring a surprising margin of victory for Hillary Clinton, they'll make their move soon after the Pennsylvania primary. Howard Dean's comments could be seen as a public heads up to the various superdelegates that they should be ready to make a choice because things are about to go down.

Hillary Clinton's piling on in the wake of Barack Obama's "bitter" comments, as well as last night's debate, would only further solidify the Democratic Party establishment's resolve to put an to end this circus.

The Good Doctor is the man! His 50 state strategy is the reason the dems kicked ass in 06. It's also the reason the DLC Dinos are scared shitless. So long all you triangulatin, third way,rebublican-lite mofo's. The future's ours for the taking. F*ck Yes We Can!

user-pic

These two are starting to remind me of the heat and snow misers and Dean (Mother Nature) needs to put an end to this shit lest we Dems have a blue Christmas. Hillary is running a national campaign against Obama which can only hurt us come November.

user-pic

I'll tell you why Howard Dean is saying this: DNC fundraising is WAY down. He's figured out that until we have a nominee, there won't be any cash coming into the coffers. So here's what you do: go to democrats.org, click Contact, and tell Dean that the day we have a nominee, you'll make a donation, but not a dime until that day. And then, make good on your pledge. The day we have a nominee, we should all donate a few bucks. It will let them know that this whole superdelegate idea is unpopular and destructive to the party.

Sure, let's have the convention today w/o FLA and MI and vote right now. Ex-Governor Douche while your at it can you work on that Iowa scream since you have no influence with any candidate and you don't control super delegates.

Marginal, get ready for Hillary to concede, and then immediately start campaign on BEHALF of Barack Obama for president. That's what my crystal ball says.

This is a serious question.

Did either HRC, Obama, or ANY of the cnadidates say anything against the DNC decision to not count the Fl or Mi votes as punishment way back when?

I do not remember anyome seeming to care at the time.

Please let me know.

There was always an assumption that the delegates would be counted somehow. The DNC & Dean assumed that the democratoc nomintaion process wouldn't be close enough to matter which was a huge mistake and the nominee who had already clinched the nomination would take the votes from the two states denied delegates.

Obviously no one is going to clinch the magic # without a revote and so the debate becomes how are the votes counted. We'll see at the convention what happens.

There's nothing to worry about.
This was my thought in 2004.
. . . and in 2000
. . . and in

The Polls matter not at this point and we all know it.

Wait until Obama starts competing head to head with McAlzheimers I mean McCain.

I think we are going to have the most important role ever in a Presidential campaign. Assuming the Democrats are their usual lame selves it will be up to us to counter and attack the Swift Boaters.

I have an idea that I think we should get ready right now.

We know that they will use Hussein against Obama.
A TPM post recently highlighted: http://www.juancole.com/2008/02/barack-hussein-obama-omar-bradley.html
wherein several American heroes with Arabic and Semitic names were shown. This video is simple-it pans across the most notable, and right before Obama you show Benjamin Franklin, then Omar Bradley, then finally Obama. After that add runs a few thousand times it will negate Obama's middle name.

And we all know that in the end EVEN Obama’s name will help heal the world.

Imagine the response from the rest of the world when we elect an African American named Barack Hussein Obama.

Go Obama 2008!!!

Ask policy questions?
Do you know how to get the candidate websites? There all there. If you asked the same questions, you'll get stump speeches which you have heard in their campaigns and previous debates.
The debate asked the right questions. It's revealing what Obama's sentiments are judging from his close associations with Rev. Wright, Ayers, his refusal to wear the flag pin and his attitude in the way he talked down to poor small town America insulting them of their intelligence and way of life.
What you want to hear from the candidates are stuff they're not comfortable with and stuff they don't want you to hear or know about. It gives you the person behind the campaign slogans.

Hey, don't speak for me. Maybe what you want to hear is bullshit character assasination and guilt-by-association innuendo. In that case, how about Bill Clinton pardoning those Weather Underground people? What about Hillary's "screw them" comment, now corroborated by multiple sources? What about Hillary's creepy affiliation with the cult-like "Family"? See how easy and pointless this stupid game is? This is really meaningful stuff to you, huh?

user-pic

Amen, brother. Couldn't have said it better.

Howard Dean is a tool!

Check out the article “Barack’s “Underground” Friends” http://savagepolitics.com/?p=291


http://www.savagepolitics.com
brilliant writing plus it offers a great community in which to discuss. The editor actually takes time to answer and the political humor section is awesome!!!

Oh great, now I've already got to shower again today.

Nice website...is it a joke or something?

Enough already! I am convinced that Obama is a better choice than Clinton, but I will vote for Clinton if she wins. ANYTHING is better than 4 more years of Republican control of the Executive branch. ANYONE who contributes to that terrible outcome (by tearing down either Obama or Clinton) is making a major mistake.

Its that simple -- so tell us about the strong points of your candidate of choice, and start practicing, NOW, the politics of progress that this country desperately needs.

BTW I am for Obama because he has the best chance of transforming this country into what we hope it can be, what its founding documents proclaimed it to be, and what it still hasn't managed to become.

Lynn Nadel

I guess this is a different set of Obama supporters than the ones who were bitterly complaining about the Superdelagates in February and early March.

Back then the mantra was "the super delagates should not overturn the popular vote".

Currently the popular vote breaks down 48.5/47.1% with a 1.4% lead for Obama (not including MI).

Many Obama supporters are hypocrities, which makes them just like any other political group. They are silent when the opponent gets beat up, but cry foul when their candidate gets some tough questions.

Back when it looked like the super delegates would go towards Clinton, the Obama supporters put out petitions and lamated "smoke filled room" politics.

But today they say "yes, decide now, let's get it over with!"

Sure they do, because now it doesn't look so rosy for Obama. Every couple of weeks brings some new controversy, people are learning more about him and asking questions. Based on his performance Wednesday night, it looks like he can't handle it.

To use a football analogy; the Obama folks are looking at the scoreboard of a game in which they have a slim lead, with the other team about to score and they want to call it done at the end of the 3rd quarter. "But our QB might get hurt in the 4th quarter and won't be able to play in the big game!"

This election will be over when the people say it is. Obama supporters try, but should not discount that only slightly more folks have voted for him than her.

There are ten more contests to go representing 566 pledged delegates. Obama leads by 164 in pledged delegates, a lead which will likely tighten by the end of the primaries.

There are 795 super delegates. 256 have publically come out for Clinton, 232 have publically come out for Obama. That leaves 307 so far to decide.

Assuming the race ended today, you'd have Obama with a lead of 164 pledged delegates, Clinton with a lead of 24 declared super delegates.

There are still 566 pledged delegates left to be decided, and 307 undeclared super delegates.

This race is wide open, and the calls to end it sooner rather than later are hypocrtical on the part of Obama supporters.

Sources for votes and delagates come from
Real Clear Politics

Go Obama!

Leave a comment

Advertise Liberally
Share
Close Social Web Email

"To" Email Address

Your Name

Your Email Address