this is god news for hillary?

It's sad to see, isn't it? Bill's just a good ole boy from the south, and that's why we love him. But he didn't handle himself well in the early stage of this campaign and he knew exactly what he was doing when he mentioned Jesse Jackson and tried to marginalize Obama. Is Bill a racist? No. Did he inject race into the campaign? Yes, even if only inadvertently. I mean, we've all heard the clips of Bill's brother using the n-word over and over again, and all the anecdotal evidence of Bill throwing the n bomb out there. Again, I don't think Bill's a racist. But I do think he grew up around a lot of racists, in a really racist state, and he's been colored by that experience. At the very least, this is evidence that he finally thinks the game is over, because this will do nothing but further alienate black voters from Clinton. He basically called Jesse Jackson a liar in this clip. You know, the same Jesse Jackson who counseled Bill in his time of need.

I know that this pains gotalife, who seems to be the biggest Bill Clinton fan in the world (or perhaps he is Bill Clinton?), but old Bill just doesn't have the same Midas touch that he used to.

What a psycho. Yeah, Obama must have tried to make himself out to be the "black candidate" after SC, and he must have used a Jedi mind trick to make Bill and other campaign officials compare him to Jesse Jackson and call him "the black candidate"

Let's take a trip down memory lane Bill:

http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2008/01/jesse-jackson-plan-or-clinton-plan-b.html

Do I detect a... whine?

Please, make it stop. He is making a ridiculous spectacle of himself to no obvious advantage. Pres Clinton, you are so much better than this. Do everyone (including yourself) a favor and stop now.

You can't throw something like that without the evidence. Where are the frickin' memos to back any of this up? If they had them, wouldn't they release them BEFORE the PA primary?

If they don't have them, then Bill is lying his ass off. Release them or shut it, Bill.

Hi, folks! I've been gone for a while (work, "kid" illnesses, travel, etc. have kept me from posting). I wanted to post something interesting about a possible cause for Bill's outbursts.

Dr. John MacDougall (the vegan doctor) has an interesting take on Bill's current state of mind. He believes that his personality changes stem from his bypass operation. The following is from an e-mail I got the other day:

One of the savviest politicians of our generation, known for his wit, charm, and calm under extreme pressure, Bill Clinton appears out of character in the speeches and interviews televised since his bypass surgery September 6, 2004—and his mental deterioration may be accelerating. Remember, this is the president who withstood public impeachment before the entire world for his relationship with Monica Lewinski without once losing control. Now, he is easily angered by hecklers, and makes factual mistakes and racial slurs while aggressively defending his wife’s campaign for presidency. Everyone sees his mental and emotional decline, yet to date, no medical professionals have spoken out about the cause or offered help.

Not a single one—not one bypass surgeon, cardiologist or psychiatrist—has stepped forward in his defense; even though all of them are trained to recognize “post bypass surgery cognitive dysfunction.” One of the best-kept secrets in medicine is the brain damage caused during bypass surgery. During my 40 years of medical practice I have never heard a doctor warn a patient before bypass surgery that an expected complication is memory loss. After surgery when the family complains of dad’s fits of anger, I have never heard a doctor admit that personality change is a common consequence of surgery. Yet these well-recognized side effects have been reported in medical journals since 1969.1

Brain damage during bypass surgery is so common that hospital personnel refer to it as “pump head.” The primary cause is emboli produced during surgery from clamping the aorta and from the “heart-lung machine.” This machine pumps blood to keep the patient alive while the heart is stopped during the operation. Unfortunately, this pump also introduces toxic gases, fat globules, and bits of plastic debris into the bloodstream of the patient under anesthesia. Once they are in the bloodstream, these particles migrate to the brain where they can clog capillaries and prevent adequate amounts of blood and oxygen from flowing to the brain. Essentially, all patients experience brain emboli during surgery and for many the damage is permanent.

Interesting take on this and, who knows? It might even be a contributing factor...if so, someone should gently pull him aside and get him to keep an extremely low profile for the rest of the campaign - and during Obama's GE campaign, too (nothing like Bill damning with faint praise all over the place, huh?)

Glad to be back - I've been lurking and reading a lot but not posting. It's been impossible to do everything! :0

i certainly dont know how campaigns operate, but that would seem like a rather dumb thing to make a formal memo about, wouldnt it? was it on letterhead? hes just making it up..just like when he "overheard" obama people in Las Vegas paying people to vote for him instead of clinton..

"note to team: play the race card on bill clinton!"

What a despicable piece of shit.

He must be talking about that memo about the Clinton campaign playing the race card that got leaked in SC. I don't really see how that is, itself, "playing the race card." Especially since the memo was entirely comments that were made by Clinton or her surrogates.

Anyway, god what a crybaby.

Bill, if you can't stand the heat, get out of Lewinsky.

OK Sorry, that was over the line but the pun was just sitting there.

, I have never heard a doctor admit that personality change is a common consequence of surgery. Yet these well-recognized side effects have been reported in medical journals since 1969.1

Yep.

And what a surprise that doctors try to keep quiet about this - since by-passes are the latest fad to pay the bills - everyone gets one whether they need it or not. I'd rather have clogged arteries and a functioning head, thanks so much.

What a narcissistic, self-obsessed, self-pitying, petty little man he has become (or perhaps revealed for all the world to see).

How very presidential.

This guy has totally trashed his reputation once again.

Kind of sad.

And Bill was cc'ed on the memos?

It's been mentioned in discussions of McCain's temper that Clinton was also known to get angry with aides, though not holding grudges after the initial outburst. So I tend to doubt the medical angle.

More likely, he's just got the same thing going on that lots of older folks do, including me: we're tired of holding our tongues to meet the definitions of acceptable discussion limits so our diplomatic reserve is gone. In other words, what he's really saying is "You kids get the hell offa my lawn!"

(I'm blunt, too, but the kids don't bug me as much as they bother Bill).

And if he's got memos to back his words, I say "cough 'em up, old boy". Because, despite his high intelligence, there's nothing new about his penchant for saying things that just aren't true.

The jerk store is out of you, Clinton.

"But you can argue, as I would, that Obama, in order to court the black vote, turned the Clintons into "racists" who would use the blacks against Obama in order to win the election."

Oh, you can argue it - look, they're doing it again! But what you need to explain is how they're getting Bill to play along so well. (Maybe that's in the memos.)

I don't think we need surgery, or racism, to explain Bill's behavior. He just can't believe that he's losing to this guy, and he just can't believe that HIS party is letting it happen. Everything else is just projection of those emotions.

Mike1981, I'm still waiting for someone to point me to all the (supposedly) myriad places where Obama played the race card, though I can accept the possibility that some of his fan base has from time to time.

In my experience, race, racism, and race cards are all words that get pounded over and over by Hillary supporters, right on up to her spouse, who is clearly "past it" at this point. Whining about "they called us racists" is a favorite theme of the Clinton campaign and fan base. But now, regrettably, it goes right up to The Big Dog himself. It's tired, old, and tedious.

Everyone knew that racial politics and race paranoia would worm its way into this campaign because there's an African-American in the contest. Most of us, however, assumed it would come from the evildoer Republicans (telling the country Obama would lead an army of black militants into white neighborhoods to steal your daughters) rather than Democrats who once were likened to "the first black presidency."

Hey, who knew?

when one looks up the definition of "do anything/say anything" politics, one need only look to this thread and to the obama south carolina memo. anyone who tries to claim that either of the clintons have been anything but fervently and passionately on the front line of the battle for racial justice and equality has clearly mortgaged their soul or is flat out aggressively ignorant.

i'm african-american, support hrc and have no problem with african-americans who want to reflexively support obama as a barrier breakthrough. but for anyone to convert that support for obama to denigration of one of the most laudable political records on race we have, and certainly among current living politicians, is truly saying anything to support your agenda regardless of truth or merit.

and i suspect that the extremist comments that accuse the clintons of being racist aren't predominantly from african-americans, but are from the latte-liberal caucasian supporters of obama who somehow feel their support of obama rids them of the yoke of "white guilt" and apparently frees them to speak out as if they somehow have been the folks on the frontlines of this battle for racial justice when the vast majority of you were running around in diapers when folks like bill and hillary were actually doing fighting the fight.

pathetic, you folks are, really.

My father had a 5-way bypass and he
is different. My mother-in-law suffered
with Cardiomyopathy and she is different also.

I've always heard that people that undergo
severe cardiac problems, especially surgery
undergo some kind of personality change.

Interesting.

Hillary gets about 8-10% of the AA vote now - why is that?

Well, because Obama duped them, obviously. Just like every other group that votes for him.

/sarcasm

oh my god.

this is just....

incredible.

Actually, Bill was and is right. The Obama camp did play the race card mulitple times. They took statements that did not relate to race and accused him of making racial comments.
1. This happened on the reference to a "fairy tale". Clearly what Bill said was the idea that Obama had a different voting record than Hillary was a fairy tale. The Obama campaign turned that around to imply it was a racial comment and was saying his whole campaign was a fairy tale. Simply not true.
2. When the Clintons made reference to President Johnson getting it done where as John F. Kennedy only talked about it they turned it into a racial comment about MLK. Clearly they were comparing the two presidents and not MLK.
3. Other comments have been horibly mangled to change them from a fair comment on Obama's position or history into a racial comments. Clintons have not pulled the race card, Obama has every chance he got.

As far as reflexive voting, Obama is garnering 90 plus percentage of the AA vote. Good for him. Hillary is getting a larger majority of women voters. Not 90% but a disproportionate number. Each group feels they want to help a person they identify with get ahead. Nothing wrong with that, but do not try and deny it is happening.

I wonder if they've found out who stole the Allentown computers yet.

http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2008/04/obamas_allentowngate_laptops_m.html

Imagine, in less than a year we will be saying good-bye to the Clinton and Bush clans.

Change; it's a beautiful thing.

And who burned Hillary's campaign building to the ground.

It is possible to make all kinds of accusations without merit. Laptops are mobile and worth money. Unless you can show that Bill got his "memos" please do not imply or make accusations.

Also, IF those memos really do exist, does that change your view?? If not, why not?

Well, there was a break in at an Obama campaign office. Some laptops were stolen. I wonder if Bill Clinton is referring to a memo from one of those laptops.

Probably from the campaign laptops they stole earlier in the week...

c'mon I know it's Jim Crow but in the midst of typing and responding sometimes my hands type before I think. It doesn't excuse the fact the Bill Clinton had never been accused of being racist before this election.

"We now know, from memos from the campaign that they planned to do it along."

Wonder if these "memos" were obtained from Obama's burglarized campaign office?

Say "G'night" Bill.

There is zero chance for you to reprise your antics in the Blow-val Office.

Men that have heart by-pass surgery often experience personality changes after the operation. Perhaps this explains his rantings.

Let's see one piece of evidence about this "whisper campaign"

One piece.

You don't have it. And since you don/t you probably should refrain some saying it existed as fact.

The Clinton camp has leaked that there is anger at Penn for providing Bill Clinton that comment in South Carolina. So not only did Bill say it to undermine Obama as only a black candidate, Bill knew in advance he was going to say it. So to blame Obama is just shameless. He needs to blame Penn's campaign strategy. And I think Bill's last comment (the one he didn't know was on air) is telling of what is really going on in his head. Bill Clinton doesn't think his sh*t stinks. I counted at least four lies in that interview. He insults our intelligence every time he opens his mouth.

UPDATE: Obama responds

At a Pittsburgh press availability, Obama was asked about Clinton's charge that his campaign had drawn up plans to use 'the race card.'

“Hold on a second,’’ he said. “So former President Clinton dismissed my victory in South Carolina as being similar to Jesse Jackson and he is suggesting that somehow I had something to do with it? You better ask him what he meant by that. I have no idea what he meant. These were words that came out of his mouth. Not words that came out of mine.’’

Gee, I dunno what's next, but something tells me it won't be you providing any facts to back up your assertion.

Am I wrong?

I well remember how Obama joined the outcry over the MLK/LBJ remarks Hillary made. Anyone willing to look at what she said, and read it all, and examine the context in which she said it, can clearly see that she was not putting down Martin Luther King in any way at all. But Obama used it as a wedge to give black Hillary supporters an easy way to abandon her. Obama has been highly hypocritical on accusing the Clintons of using the race card. But I do not expect Obama supporters to see that. All these idealistic kids who don't see how they are being manipulated are in for a lot of disillusionment. But then, that's the way it always is.

Last night, by the way, I saw Obama suggesting again that the only reason he has gone negative in this campaign is because Hillary did it first. He said something about how he eventually had to respond after being being elbowed in the ribs two or three times. And his supporters have swallowed this willingly. "She started it," as the old argument children have been making for ions goes. So I guess negative politics are ok, just so long as you're only responding to the other person's negative politics. And of course Obama has both sides have used negative politics from the beginning, because that is what works. There was never any question that Obama was going to use attack ads and the like. But as a politician I will give him credit for knowing how to dupe his naive followers into believing that he is truly a different kind of politician, and is only reluctantly being forced to lower himself to "Hillary's level". Campaigns are about winning. But then, that's a major reason why I support Hillary. She can beat McCain.

A Missouri voter: the primary “facts” I presented are the concrete existence of a video of the Jesse Jackson Jr. remarks, the date he issued them, and the concrete existence of a campaign memo that can be viewed on the web. The timeline of events supports my interpretation and Bill Clinton’s. My guess is that my characterization of them is so obvious that you would feel foolish disputing them. Maybe Hillary’s campaign should issue a statement “White people should look very carefully at Obama’s…… You fill in the blank. Now that would be a blatant race card my friend.

hyperRevue: The timeline for these statements is not open to question. How specific can I be? I am correct about the timeline, thus Obama is not responding to the charge.

A Missouri voter: I completely disagree with you about the MLK comments, as does Josh Marshall, Kevin Drum and much of the left of center blogosphere.

Clinton's comments emphasized the fact that Obama is running for president, not to replace MLK, which is impossible.

I've heard Obama's response a million times during the past several decades. "Unfortunate remarks", and "Regretable choice of words", delivered with a rather sad and disapproving deamenor. That's another way to play a race card.

Your willingness to go into detail re: MLK but not the Jesse Jackson Jr. statement or the campaign memo is revealing to me.

Tell you what: why don't you just let us know when we're allowed to be offended by stuff like that...

You are totally free to be offended. Stuff like that? People got all worked up by a truncated version of Hillary's MLK remarks published by the New York Times. The full remarks are not offensive.

Donna Brazile got so offended by Bill Clintons Iraq remarks that she felt free to fabricate a quote, i.e., that Bill Clinton had called Obama a kid. That what getting overly offended will do for you. Of course, many of my African American frieds still believe he said it. Thanks Donna.

I'm reading all of this talk about Obama playing the race card and I'm wondering what it is you think a Black man gets when he plays that card? And if Obama as a black man has that card it means that white people have a race card too. So given that reality, and it is a reality, whose got the trump card?

When Obama was planning to run for president one of his advisors wanted to talk about "race as an issue" and Obama would not discuss it. He didn't want to discuss it because he knew that it would come up anyway. Why? Because it always does. Period. He was smart in doing so because it put the onus of race on the other team. They had to bring it up and they did. It's not his fault that it backfired in their faces. The fact that it did backfire shows just how for America has come in the past decade. Which you will remember he acknowledged in his speech.

Bill Clinton dismissed Obama's win in South Carolina with that comment about Jessie Jackson. I repeat, he dimissed this black man ambitions, his dreams, and his desire to succeed. He simply disrespected him. To do this was a turning point for African American's and rightly so. After all we were the first community he ran too whenever he was in trouble. We gave his sorry behind "cred" when he didn't deserve it. For him to treat Obama with that much disdain was a slap in the face. Period. Does that make him racist? It makes him trifling and ungrateful.

Why isn't anyone asking Hilary about why she can't seem to attract any minority voters? Why is she not derided for continually losing after having such a substantial lead going into the race? If she is running a campaign that is severely in debt then how is she going to manage the broken down economy? Why is it all right for her to refer to being a woman and how she's fighting the big boys while Obama knows that if he does that he'll be labelled as what? And the fact that she can say she's just a "Woman" and not a white woman speaks to the fact that she doesn't have to label herself while Obama has to be "the Black" candidate.

Money talks and bullcrap walks. So check out how much money this man has raised over the past few months and let that convince you of the type of people this man inspires to run his campaign. If a man with so little experience can do this then there is no telling what he can make of this country.

Into what detail do you want me to go with regard to Rep Jackson's statements? I am already on record as agreeing that his remarks were unseemly and inapt.

Finally, what sounds like a grudging concession. But absolutely no acknowledgement of the racial aspect, or the context, i.e., Jackson's statement was in the wake of a surprise loss in New Hampshire and in concert with a memo laying out, in an embarrassing biased fashion, Bill Clinton's supposed racial insults.

Bill Clinton dismissed Obama's win in South Carolina with that comment about Jessie Jackson. I repeat, he dimissed this black man ambitions, his dreams, and his desire to succeed. He simply disrespected him.

You are simply making assertions. According to me, Bill Clinton was stating a fact, that an African American can win the South Carolina democratic primary, especially if his campaign makes a racial issue out of it.

Look at the timeline. Like me, Bill Clinton heard Jesse Jackson Jr. loud and clear make a point blank clarion call to South Carolina African Americans. The Obama campaign proceded to deliberately perpetuated the myth that the Clintons were deliberately insulting African Americans.

At that point, it was Obama who had nothing to lose. If he was successful at blaming the race brouhaha on the Clintons, he would benefit immediately and down the road, and that is what happened.

Brother, I do not know what you want from me here. I agree with you. Not "grudgingly" agree. Just agree, freely and cheerfully. What, pray tell, does any of this have to do with Bill Clinton?

I thought I had written in plain English "But absolutely no acknowledgement of the racial aspect, or the context..."

After all, that is what this entire thread is about, the racial aspect.

If you agree with me, then you are agreeing that there is compelling evidence that the Obama campaign made a very conscious decision to make an issue out of race going into the South Carolina primary and that Bill Clinton recognized it and acknowledged it. Furthermore, you agree that the "not tears for Katrina victims" and the MLK misquotes were bogus issues.

When you win a primary with 90% of the black vote why oh why is it racist to point out that blacks voted based on race???? WHY? Because to point out the obvious RACISM of that vote in favor of the person who is the same color as the voters??? The double standard here is KILLING ME! Only whites can be racist and if they say the sky is blue and the grass is green they are soooooo racist! Methinks racism has many colors!

...celebrate the inauguration of a democratic president.

I certainly look forward to that. Yes indeed.

Hillary is right Barack Obama cannot beat McCain, but she needs to tell the voters why. Because America WILL NEVER ELECT A BLACK MAN to be president. There is no beating around the bush. The sooner this is put out there the sooner we can get over this crap.