« Poll: More Than A Third Of Dems Think Hillary Should Drop Out | Home | SurveyUSA: Hillary Leads By Nine Points In Indiana »
AP/Ipsos: Hillary Performing Better Than Obama Against McCain
A new AP/Ipsos poll shows Hillary Clinton performing better than Barack Obama in a national match-up against John McCain:
Clinton (D) 50%, McCain (R) 41%
Obama (D) 46%, McCain (R) 44%
For comparison, here's the previous AP/Ipsos poll from April 10:
Clinton (D) 48%, McCain (R) 45%
Obama (D) 45%, McCain (R) 45%
While the movement for the individual candidates is not statistically significant, it nevertheless shows some potential bounce in Hillary's favor since her Pennsylvania win -- something that is likely to be touted by her campaign.
Advertisement
And this is why Obama shouldn't be complacent about winning the nomination even with the delegate math on his side. Perception does matter.
April 28, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too bad perception is being driven by the Clinton's sleight-of-hand and the MSM complicity. Obama needs to take charge of the framing.
April 28, 2008 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen, on all counts. Why this is currently the main headline on TPM with end-of-the-world font is curious - considering the fact that she is very unlikely to be the nominee.
April 28, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Scientific, it simply is not! Scientifically, that is!
April 28, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
WRIGHT SPEECH STRATEGY WORKING FOR BARRY!
Trotting out the jabbering lunatic Reverend has succeeded in returning Obama to the "underdog" status as Obama's lead evaporates and his poll goes limp.
"If we can just lose the next two primaries we'll have pants suit right where we want her" David Axelrod
VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE
NOT YOUR GUILTY CONSCIENCE
April 28, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
The reason stories like this are overplayed for the benefit of Hillary is to presumptively justify the result.
April 28, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's the beginning of the end for Obama.
April 28, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope, it's not.
April 28, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
she has already lost.
These polls are beyond stupid since she is not the nominee and will not be and cannot be because she can't win the delegates.
She's already lost so who the hell cares how she polls?
Hones to god I am so damn disappointed with the blogs this time around. They were better in '04. They've gone off the MSM deep end this time around.
Quit talking about Clinton and Obama will be back running the narrative. God fucking damn it!
April 28, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
here, here! Ignore Clinton and she'll go away.
April 28, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
They are also beyond stupid other than as tracking polls because we don't have a "national" vote but a vote of 50 states. For instance, you will note that McCain is beating Clinton in WI while Obama is winning over McCain. I can say with certainty that Clinton will not become president without winning in Wisconsin. Geez.
April 28, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's slowly starting to lose his margin in NC too.
April 28, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, she better speed the hell up. He's up like, what, 20? It's only a week away.
April 28, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's already made fast work of it since PA.
April 28, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not really.
April 28, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I doubt she'll do it, but what if she beat him in NC? Oh my!
April 28, 2008 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's so exciting!
April 28, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
If the damn MSM and everyone else in the media would face the facts that she has already lost there would not be any need for these stupid meaningless polls.
But go ahead and play like. I don't care - if it makes you happy to think she can still pull it off - go ahead. Just be sure and turn into a Republican troll when she doesn't and keep right on blasting Obama.
sheeit.
April 28, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're comparing apples and oranges, dude. It only works if there's a shift in polls done by the same group using the same methodology. He'll win NC. What matters is Indiana.
April 28, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course I don't expect HRC to win NC. No one does. But the fact that she's competing hard for it—as Obama is for IN—is going to have an effect. Her campaign has made a commitment to compete even in states she will lose.
But part of my point is sarcastic. The polls are erratic. Pulling one poll out to claim it means anything definitive—for either candidate—is ridiculous.
April 28, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
This has been said so many times that it's due to become the replacement for "THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!!" as it can carry on even after Hillary is gone from the election.
I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to start posting this until we get someone as dedicated to it as idiotic is to the original.
April 28, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
So has "Hillary should drop out" and "She's done."
April 28, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Gasket,
I hope you take a deep breath soon, friend, and regain the judicious, patient, and rational composure that I'd become accustomed to in our exchanges.
Your view and experience are of considerable value here. Please realize that you can cheapen both with your fervor.
Thats the lesson you taught me.
April 28, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi Slouch,
You're right. Everyone hates it when someone says, "It's the beginning of the end" for their candidate. It's just plain stupid.
Thanks for your comment. It's raining in the Northeast today, and I have a sinus headache which is making me short-tempered and abrupt. I like Ben, and he's right too about the comment. Hell, we're all right. We have no idea what the hell is going to happen next.
Truth be told, I'm happy both candidates are competing hard. As with the World Series, I hate a sweep. ;-)
April 28, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Feeling's mutual, although I still like that line, and I hope you don't mind me using it. I suspect its comedic value will increase with time. :)
April 28, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, I don't mind. It is perfect!
April 28, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary's like the corpse who shows at her own funeral and doesn't know enough to get into the casket. Instead she relies on Rovian Billy to further drive her own and Democrats negatives up. The corpse is beginning to stink. Bury it already.
April 28, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
You should talk.
April 28, 2008 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rasmussen: Obama performing better than Clinton against McCain.
I'm pretty sure neither of these results means squat at this point.
April 28, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, but that's not worthy of the main TPM headline! Didn't you get the (talking points) memo?
April 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. General election polls meen nothing until after the conventions.
April 28, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know what, if Hillary Clinton had one chance in hell of turning voters out she might have a chance against McCain.
But she doesn't.
I don't give one shit what some fucking stupid polls say now.
She has lost the nomination and should be either ignored or talked about as what she is - the LOSER.
April 28, 2008 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
You really are one of the worst posters on this site. Every post you make is vitriolic and adds nothing to the discourse.
April 28, 2008 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Easy: don't read her posts.
Admonishing her like she's a student in your second-grade classroom is only a way to start a flame war, not to further the discourse you claim to seek.
April 28, 2008 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
ALL SHE DOES IS BITCH! No insight no ideas no nothing just how can I say how much she hates hates hates....... She is useless.
April 28, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then I guess you haven't been reading her posts too carefully. There's plenty of substance in Tena's posts, and an awful lot of rage against the ridiculous bullshit that the Clinton campaign is engaging in to smear and take down Obama. If you don't like her posts, don't read them. She doesn't need a lecture (none of us do), and if you can't take the truth, then go to Hillaryis44 or TaylorMarsh where you'll be welcomed with open arms.
April 28, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
A little vitriol is ok, what is this, a tea party?
And the discourse IS about TPM's selective headlining of polls, and the reality that national polls mean absolutely squat right now.
April 28, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who are you? I've never even heard of you. Why should anyone care what you think?
April 28, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, Hillary is not the loser . . . She is the LOST.
April 28, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now that is funny!
April 28, 2008 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Easy Tena.
First off; you are wrong. Hillary will turn out the voters - the McSame voters.
How many Goopers would stay home except for the chance to vote AGAINST a Clinton? Having a Clinton to vote against will turn out more Goopers than anything else.
April 28, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well you got that right - they'll love getting to come out and vote against Clinton -
April 28, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very true.
And if, lord forbid, she manages to steal the nomination from Obama (according to Clyburn) the black vote that is one of the bedrocks of the Democratic party, may not turn out.
The problem with the Clinton campaign is it has NO long term plan. They've switched everything about the campaign numerous times and are now acting on a purely short term/reactionary basis with no thought put towards what happens if they actually manage to win. Either that, or they know they are going to lose and want to make sure Obama loses the general election so they can run in 2012.
April 28, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
YOU ARE ONE OF THE WORST POSTERS ON THIS SITE!!! GET IT?!? Everything you say is hateful personal crap like some highschooler with a worm up her ass. You can prefer anyone without hating everyone else .... or maybe you can't ...... The primary process makes the Democratic party much stronger and better organized. The states yet to vote have every right to have their say.
April 28, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't like the truth, tough.
Clinton has already lost and this whole thing is an exercise in futility and very boring and very frustrating because people refuse to fact facts.
If anyone can show me one feasible way Clinton can get the nomination, I'm listening. But I have not heard one feasible thing to suggest that she has done anything other than totally lose.
And if you don't like that - too damn bad.
April 28, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
And the Republicans are going to kick Obombs' shinny ass around so badly you will wish you had nominated the tough chick instead of the fresh face. The Dems always make the mistake of picking the pussy and then wonderi why they get slammed. Hillary Clinton would make an excellent President but the schoolgirls all got a crush on the new kid and pissed the whole thing away. Great. Thanks.
April 28, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Soooo... You figure she'd win the nomination by winning Obama supporters away from him? And you're helping her do that, how, exactly?
April 28, 2008 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not about "the primary process" or "Hillary's right to stay in".
It's about race-baiting ("Farrakhan! Farrakhan!") and tearing down another Democrat, the Democrat who is now and has been for two months the likely Democratic nominee, and the attacks get more vicious the more likely he gets.
Hillary Clinton gave up trying to sell herself after Wisconsin, because, like George W. Bush, she can't win a fair, honest race. If she wants to run a positive campaign, she can stay in until the convention for all I care. Personally, I think it's high time Obama's surrogates started fighting Clinton on the terms she has set.
And I like Tena's posts. She doesn't mince words.
April 28, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
100% agreed on all counts.
No more obliteratti.
April 28, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too early in this game to make these type of predictions/assumptions. We need to get to the general election before this stuff even matters. Right now pure speculation.
April 28, 2008 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am still less than clear as to why national polls are supposed to be understood to tell us anything at all at this stage in the game.
April 28, 2008 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
They're not. They're meant to drive up the TPM site traffic with our comments. Polls are meat for the wolves, Greg.
April 28, 2008 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, the electoral college map (based on polls in all 50 state) has also been steadily moving towards Hillary being a better candidate against McCain(they used to be tied, with each beating him with different combinations of states):
http://www.electoral-vote.com/
April 28, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
For what very little that site is worth. They are cherry picking the poll results used to determine those maps rather strikingly. If you were to go to Pollster.com, for instance, or RCP and look at the averages or the trends, you would see that they are calling states for her where her numbers and trends are actually much worse than McCain's. It is, as such, hard to take their predictions too seriously.
April 28, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
It doesn't really matter what they tell you.
It's what they tell the SDs that matters.
April 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fair enough. It is far from clear to me why the supers would be expected to understand the national polls to tell them anything at this point (or at any point, for that matter; it is not as if we elect our president by recourse to the national popular vote).
April 28, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's too bad you don't report ALL the polls results instead of the ones your PREFER to look at.
April 28, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
This seems like a lot of the polls back in October that said that Hillary was a lock for the nomination.
April 28, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Three Senators.
One Senator can't be tied to a bush, a wright or a mcgee.
The choice is clear.
April 28, 2008 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously, would you vote for HRC over McCain? I am not convinced, since HRC and Obama's viewpoints are so similar. I am not talking character here, but issues. We truly, none of us, know the real character of these candidates. Spouses do, we can only surmise.
April 28, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you talking about that certain blue dress? Does Hagee or Wright have it?
April 28, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, and Hillary can't be tied to anything that's circumspect or suspicious. Right.
April 28, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course she can. I personally back Obama. I just want to know if gotalife would actually vote for her, I think not. Yet he slams Obama all the time, and Obama is not that far from HRC issue wise. So what is his point? Why is he not just saying he backs McCain, and why does he always defend HRC? What is his point?
April 28, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was responding to gotalife, not you.
April 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wright is not circumspect or suspicious. He's an outright racist hater.
Here's his new gem:
"He said the black church tradition is not bombastic or controversial, but different and misunderstood by the "dominant culture" in the United States."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080428/ap_on_el_pr/obama_wright_14
Once again, just like Obama, whitey don't get it. Right.
April 28, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, to REPEAT, I am speaking about issues.
April 28, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll not speak for gotalife but I will say to your point that my point is that an Obama nomination will result in a McCain presidency. A Clinton nomination will lead to a Democrat in the White House.
April 28, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rev Wright's speech in Detroit was moving. It's the kind of speech one would like to see in Denver, regardless of who gave it.
That you must wallow in your own discomfort with Wright's words and complain bitterly about the messenger tells me you have no ear for truth, nor do you want one.
Your form of childish intimidation will be one of the thigs put to rest in this cycle.
Pax,
M.
April 28, 2008 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hallelujah.
Can I be your friend?
April 28, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, you don't get it. Obviously.
April 28, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now that is funny!
April 28, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
More utterly lame guilt by association games from desperate Hillary supporters - I wish Obama was half as mean as I was, and mention Norman Hsu, Peter Paul, or the 101 Clinton scandals that makes Reverend Wright seem like an after thought.
April 28, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. Your vast understanding, empathy, willingness to fairly consider opposing viewpoints, and reasoned analysis totally invalidates that statement.
April 28, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pretty much.
April 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Regarding the queen of the Clintoids:
Senator Clinton's 'co-President' is intimate with the Bush crime family and Reverend Wright AND she is the single most likely running-mate of McCain this fall.
You avoidance of reality is approaching the absurd.
April 28, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton can be tied to a Clinton. 'Nuff said.
April 28, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
The nominating process is not over yet. Why should one runner drop out of the race, if neither has crossed the finish line? Hillary is a soldier and she has real strength. I know the Obama supporters want it over, because he gets weaker as more of who he is comes out. Stay tuned.
April 28, 2008 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
In case you had not noticed, they are both getting weaker. If you look at the Pollster.com graphs, both Clinton and Obama once enjoyed wide leads over McCain in the head-to-heads. Now each enjoys only a narrow lead. The ongoing primary is bad for both sides, so it is pointless to use his diminishing polls numbers as some sort of argument against Obama specifically. They are both taking a hit as a result of this ongoing fight. She is not going to come out of it any better off than he is.
April 28, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
She actually seems to be coming out of it worse than he does, if you track their approval ratings.
April 28, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have hit Obama's current problem. He just seems unable to take charge of the narrative. Frankly, I miss the Obama who was leading a change movement. I want to hear more from that guy. He seems to have gone missing from the campaign.
I all fairness it is in the best interests of the media (including TPM) to keep this horse race going as long a possible.
April 28, 2008 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
He can't take the lead. He's tapped out. He's reapeated the one narrative that he and his advisors crafted so many times that it is stale, no longer resonates.
And he's got nothing else. Nothing.
Clinton will control this for the rest of the campaign until her victory.
April 28, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
And pigs will fly over a ski resort called Hell.
April 28, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
He has the lead in the nomination race...
April 28, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Give me a break. Obama needs to retool. He is a smart man with a good team. He is no where close to being tapped out. He needs to move. Every day he lets Team Hillary control the message is a day he loses. He needs to regain control of the message. That shouldn't be too hard.
April 28, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
He can't take the lead, because he already has it.
April 28, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Come on.
No one has done more for National Polls than Barack Obama.
April 28, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jeremiah Wright is definitely not helping Obama against McCain. Wright is now claiming that an attack on Wright is an attack on the black church. Wright is trying to place his liberation theology in the mainstream of black churches. And he is saying in effect that an attack on him is an attack on all blacks. This of course is a not so subtle way of calling attacks against him purely racist. That's not going to sit well with those who disapprove of his comments and attitudes. And clearly this is a signal that Wright is out to defend himself regardless of the cost to Obama. Wright's PR blitz is coming at a bad time for Obama.
April 28, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
And wishful thinking is coming along a little late for Hillary.
April 28, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you actually hear Wright's comments? I did. The people who should be pissed are the folks in the corporate media. Frankly, the more you hear Wright, the more you think he is right.
April 28, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Listen to the speech from Detroit yesterday, and get back to us. It was powerful, and there is nothing there that would cause anyone any shame unless they were feeling shamed already.
The Write "controversy" is such a made-up thing. Are we reduced to rifling through church bulletins for political gain? How childish must we be? How low must we stoop?
It will all be over soon, and the dems will have their nominee.
Pax
M.
April 28, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry but I'm confused. Is Rev. Wright running for the Office of the President of the United States?
Is the rest of your family this dimwitted? Or are you an anomaly of sorts?
Truly pathetic.
April 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is absolutely not what Wright said this morning. He said that the media-driven attack on his sermons is the result of a lack of familiarity with the black church tradition. He's trying to raise awareness of said tradition.
April 28, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Polls don't matter to Dean, Pelosi or the rest of the Obama supporters. They had rather lose with Obama than win with Clinton. I think they have made themselves perfectly clear. Hopefully other leaders in the party will realize Clinton is the better candidate and fighter to take on John McCain. She will blast him away. The Clintons know how to win.
April 28, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Polls dont matter to the voters who have given Obama the delegate lead either.
April 28, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's acting more like his running mate than his adversary.
April 28, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course there isn't a headline that says Gallup Poll: only 37% think Hillary is honest.
April 28, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama needs to take this campaign back, he needs to grab the reigns and steer us back.
Clinton is controlling the direction and the dialogue too much. I think these polls are refecting that.
Get us back on track, Obama! Get us back on the issues, if that's at all possible anymore...
April 28, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just wanted to comment:
What a horrible picture of Clinton on the front page.
Seriously. I don't like her either, but that is probably the worst picture of her I've ever seen!
Is that grey stuff on her teeth?!?
April 28, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Old lady teeth.
April 28, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Her teeth? Meth mouth? She quit blinking months ago and I wonder where that 60 year old woman is getting all this energy, myself.
I know about how much energy I have and I'm quite a bit younger than she is.
April 28, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really? I've noticed a lot of blinking from Hillary lately every time she talks one of her "goalpost" moves up. Blink blink blinking, just like a Republican talking about welfare.
April 28, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe you're right - I haven't seen her lately but man, has she been both wide eyed and wild eyed at times since Pa.
April 28, 2008 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, what a bitch, you
April 28, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
O, I'm so hurt. You have no idea - no one ever called me a bitch before -
Not above a hundred guys or so over the years.
I was one of the 5 women doing criminal defense in Dallas co. in the 80s. I've heard just about everything anyone could possibly say about a woman they don't like because she isn't shy and retiring.
I have mouth. And I've been told, I have an attitude. Funny that men don't ever get accused of that.
April 28, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
So I guess because you are so used to being called names, it doesn't take a second for you to do it to someone else?
I don't know what your teeth are like, but your breath stinks to here from wherever you are.
April 28, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Grow up! She was making a quip at Hillary's expense, or perhaps more accurately, the photographer's expense. A little ribbing of the candidates doesn't hurt anyone, SNL's been doing it for decades- as long as it's PC. Which her comments were- teeth are fair game.
Calling a female commentator a bitch is uncalled for, on the other hand. If you want to call some one a bitch call me a bitch. I'm gay. We consider it a term of endearment.
Acting like a misogynist does not help Hillary. Why is it so many misogynists support Hillary? It's weird.....
And may I add that you called her a name when saying she shouldn't call others names. Hypocritical, much?
Her breath? The only thing I smell is sour grapes.... from everyone connected to Clinton.
April 28, 2008 4:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't change so much as a stitch!
I wonder if men would be better behaved if they had sexual predators.
April 28, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll bet you were cute in court too.
Did you wear a dress or a.....pantsuit?
Bwahahaha.
April 28, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
And what do you do for a living, smart ass?
April 28, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the picture tells us everything we need to know on that score.
April 28, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obviously he doesn't work with Photoshop.
April 28, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
You guys should carefully study your comments. If you do that with an open mind, you'll see what's wrong with Obama's message. You've internalized it and, in various ways, are repeating it here. Then you wonder why he can't expand his base. Look at the way you talk and you'll see why.
April 28, 2008 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
That really is a bad pict of her. Generally she doesn't photograph that badly.
Frontpage has had really fugly picts of McCain recently. Similarly teeth revealing picts with gleaming eyes. Scary picts. Kinda gremlin like.
Also, I've seen some bad photos of Obama as well, on frontpage.
And what's with dogging Tena? You don't like her posts, fine. But why flame her personally? Lets just back off and take some breathers here.
April 28, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your comment reminds me of when my political naiveté was stripped away: when I was a kid growing up in NYC, I was on the subway with my mom. It was during 1965 when Abe Beame ran against John Lindsey for mayor. There were two women on the train with us, one of whom had a newspaper. There were pictures of each candidate on the front cover; I don't know what the headline said since I was too young to read at the time. One woman said to the other, "So who are you going to vote for?" Her reply was, "Beame. He knows alot about money and this city's in deep trouble. How about you?" The first woman said, "Oh Lindsey, of course. He's so much better looking!"
That day I learned a very important lesson about American politics: for some people, good looks are very important, and character or experience are not so much. These people vote.
What a country.
April 28, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Indeed. America is compeltely unaware of what a backwater it has become. Being in debt, well, now forever, does that to people who convince themselves that regular interest payments are a good idea. And it will only get worse. Who will loan America cash? Religeous zealots additicted to violence make poor credit customers.
April 28, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't see how being in debt makes some people shallow, superficial, juvenile airheads who's only criterion for elective office is nice teeth. I couldn't care less what Hillary Clinton's mouth looks like. It's what comes out of that mouth that scares the poop outta me.
April 28, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
How much less consumption would there be if we all lived within our means? For most, debt is a life-long experience, and it alters the thinking, closes doors, reduces opportunities, all because of a co-dependent addiction to regular interest payments
America has $53 trillion in unfuded liabilities. No more great projects. All there will be is social security and interest payments.
Pax,
M.
April 28, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama/Wright 2008!
April 28, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
The wet-dream team of fascist plutocrats everywhere . . .
April 28, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton/McCain is ok.
April 28, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Polls will make you crazy. As this whole thread proves.
I refuse to put much stock in any individual poll, whether I like the result or not. I keep an eye on the RealClearPolitics averages and pollster.com, and I watch the trends. But I can't take the roller coaster ride of the individual polls.
April 28, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Attack Hillary personally. What does that have to do with whether or not she will make a great president? That is the problem with dems, they vote for the cool person, with nice teeth. Dems need to think about what it takes to run this country and solve its problems. I could care less what the president looks like as long as she does the job well. You coffee drinkers need to re-think your priorities. Do you want this country in a better plance four years from now, or do you just want to be able to say I voted for the 'cool' guy?
April 28, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah that matters to me, too.
*sigh*'
The only thing that matters to me is that Hillary Clinton has already lost the nomination and I don't care about polls that say she can do whatever the fuck.
They are meaningless and irrelevant because she is meaningless and irrelevant at this point.
How can she possibly make up the delegate difference? How? There is no way. She has lost and only the MSM and the rest of the media and her followers refuse to acknowledge the Facts.
April 28, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you happen to see Reverend Wright throw Obama under the train this morning at the Press Club Q&A? I guarantee you that the rest of America will and that Hillary is going to win Indiana and maybe even North Carolina now.
April 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I watched Wright this morning. I didn't see him throw Obama under the bus. Please elaborate.
April 28, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really? You don't think that saying Obama was just a politician who "distanced" himself from Wright for political purposes was helpful? Or maybe the part in which he reaffirmed his belief that AIDS was created by the government to kill black people? Or the part in which he said that all Black people would listen to Farrakhan? You better believe the Obama campaign believes Wright's appearence this morning was not a positive.
April 28, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are grasping. He did no such thing, but please continue to enojoy your stupid caricature of someone who is not running for president while Sen Clinton (a sitting Senator for crissake) threatens a country with 70 million people with erasure by nuke. This is criminally unstable thinking.
I invite you to grow up, and quickly.
Pax,
M.
April 28, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't realize that the Hillary vs. McCain general election was being held today!! Holy crap, I need to get down to the polls!
Oh, wait. It's not being held today.
Never mind.
April 28, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting. And these numbers come in before the Official Wright World Tour even started.
April 28, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
The reality of the situation is that the loser of the vast majority of DEM contests earned more votes than all the REP candidates combined.
Hell, John Edwards still has more votes cast for him to date than McCain has.
All the posturing of both of these right-wing pukes running for the DEM is for crap, the next President will be registered as a member of the Democratic Party.
April 28, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
The beginning of the end for Barry Obama's 2008 campaign. I do suggest Barry take the Reverend Wright as his Veep nominee now. That will end his hopes for POTUS sooner.
April 28, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see your controversial preacher and raise you a Communist law firm.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/tom-hayden-look.html
But no, the Republicans are certainly above such attacks, aren't they?
April 28, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where is Jane Fonda when you need her?
April 28, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was feeling discouraged this morning, but now the former softie squeeze is gleefully announcing that it's the beginning of the end for Obama, which can only mean he's still so scared his cone is leaking. So, all is right with the world, and Obama will be our next president.
April 28, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Trolls should start thinking about she will be the nominee and stop bashing her.
The is a Dem blog and we should be praising her and uniting with her.
Take it to the RW blogs to hate on Clinton.
Sick of it trolls.
April 28, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
You must not have heard: Smoking crack is bad for you!
She has already lost. If she had any class (she doesn't) she would stop attacking Obama and get to work bringing the party back together. Instead she spends her time tearing out the plumbing behind her kitchen sink so she has more scurilious bullshit to toss Obama's way.
April 28, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Take it to a RW blog troll.
We support Clinton here and took over this blog.
April 28, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Could this "we" you refer to be the other patients you reside with in whatever institution you currently dwell.
It's pretty obvious where you are coming from. We get it. It's clear you aren't a member of the democratic party. Divide and conquer. Such easy concepts to master. That's why twits like yourself gravitate towards such a line of work.
Do you still kiss your wife and kids before you retire to bed at night? Or is there anyone waiting for you at home at all?
April 28, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
To listen to you, Obama is a daffodil.
When the wind blows too hard, he falls apart. When it rains too much, he gets washed away.
Why don't you dry him out and keep between bookpages for a bit - he'd last longer in a nice frame on your shelf.
April 28, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I realize these words are strung together to seemingly form sentences but I can't seem to find any meaning. What are you talking about?
April 28, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
"divided party"
"negative campaigning"
"..."
fil in the rest for yourself, only takes one scroll on any post.
If the fragile Obama and his fragile supporters can't take it, then you're in the wrong race.
April 28, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
nope. still don't understand a word you say. i liken the experience of reading your statements to making sense out of what my three year old nephew says. the exception being that he is able to receive and express love. you? i'm not so sure.
April 28, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, Lalo, nice avatar. If you meant it as an insult to Obama you failed miserably - there's quite a lot that Lincoln and Obama have in common, and we will all marvel at your prescience when we're watching him get sworn in as our 44th president in January! ;)
April 28, 2008 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. They both love one on one debates.
April 28, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another delegate...
http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=EE03165216A09DF627BAA99AF130FEBF?diaryId=2269
April 28, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, we won't see a post on this on ElectionCentral - thanks for posting it. :)
April 28, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's unbelievable just how very, very nasty you Obamasnots are.
April 28, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your choice of the word "Obamasnots" seems to undercut your central argument.
April 28, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
They prefer Obamanauts.
April 28, 2008 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
My goodmess, Wright is all over the media.
Who da thunk it?
Its over, Clinton will be the nominee. Stop bashing the Dem nominee trolls.
April 28, 2008 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, I don't think so. There is nothing in Wright's speech in Detroit which supports your thesis. It was a grand speech, devoid of the caricature of which you and others are so afraid.
And whatever the good rev has said, he is not running for president. That may come as a shock, I know, but there it is.
April 28, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wright is all over the media but as a sane person giving a speech at the NAACP. He's showing that there's more to him than five second clips on Youtube. He's even shot down the idea that he was Obama's "spiritual mentor."
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/archive/2008/04/28/do-the-wright-thing.aspx
April 28, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
My favorite moment on Sunday was when Obama threw black men under the bus on FOX. What kind of things did you hear Wright say that were controversial? Well, I heard him get on black men for not taking care of their families. Sounds like a stereotype to me. Did Obama really say that? Yeah. Did anyone notice? Of course not. And just to make sure you know I'm not that kind of black man, let me say some loving things about my own family. How am I doing, Chris? Don't me a stranger now. I won't. No hard feeling, Chris. Sorry I had to beat up on you this morning.
April 28, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
As an Obama supporter i must confess that i am bumbed out a bit. These last 4-6 weeks has been a killer for BO. HRC's kitchen sink strategy is working and BO polling numbers are proof of that.
i think t has to win in Indiana point blank!! If he losses IN, those doubts will get louder and louder! He cant simply let the "clock run out"! He has to stab this vampire in the heart and a win in Indiana, no matter how small will do it.
April 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
These are wise words! All he has to do is beat her in Indiana and she'll concede. Send more money. Get out the vote. Get down there and work your asses off. Anything. Stop her in Indiana! You are so close. Don't quit now! Send more money! Send more money! Do it! Now!
April 28, 2008 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
If the contest is over, why is it still ongoing? If superdelegates are suppose to vote for the leader, why do we need them? The party is divided. No matter which one gets the nomination, many dems will not vote for the nominee. Obama supporters are pushing that Hillary has divided the party, but Obama has as well. Don't take Hillary supporters for granted.
April 28, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
obama has the black vote, the youth vote, a database, delegate lead, and a charming personality.
neither clinton, nor the democratic party, would survive her getting the nomination, period.
you see how the clinton's are toast in the Black community. Do you to extend that to the entire Democratic Party?
April 28, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are Hillary's push polls factored into these numbers?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-loeb/is-hillary-clinton-push-p_b_98446.html
I see a theme developing - actually it's a CONTINUING theme, and it is that the MSM and GOP want Clinton and the msm have the power to create the perception that she's more "electable" (code for the white candidate).
I haven't seem much play in the media when Obama was way ahead.
It's very clear what's going on.
The media wants either a gop prez or one who's elected by uneducated older white women and racists.
April 28, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
You will be interested to know that Senator Obama is back on the lead in the gallup poll 47 to 46...He is increasing his lead in the Rasmussen poll...
This is good news for Senator Obama since the media have been bashing him since PA, and saying that he is not electable.
The will of the people will prevail...
No matter what the media say, he is winning by every measure...
She can not catch him in the number of delegates, she can not catch him in the number of states, and after NC she won't be able to catch him in the popular vote...
April 28, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, that was my point...
When he's ahead or gaining, it gets little if any press, but when she's ahead or gaining, it's all the buzz and all the headlines, and sad to say, perception is powerful.
Jon Stuart summed it all up the best I've seen yet. Viacom had removed this video for a while, but it's now back:
http://obamastraws.blogspot.com/2008/04/this-video-is-hot-potato.html
April 28, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reverend Wright has taken over the narrative.
April 28, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good. Get it out in the open. Talk about it. There's nothing to be afraid of, as this state of fear is critical to those who dismiss truth because they do not like the messenger. It's only April, so let's get it all out.
April 28, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Obama is deemed unelectable, it doesn't matter if he leads in caucus wins, or delegate numbers, or popular votes. The dem party wants to win. If Obama was such a great candidate he would have gotten the requisite 2024, and this would be over. Many people have serious doubts about him and that is why he has not closed this race down.
April 28, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
She has not closed it either.
If she were that good, she would have the requisite number by now too. She has not.
April 28, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
And yet Hillary who was the inevitable candidate simply waiting for her coronation hasn't exactly closed the deal either. In fact, by all accounts, it's just about mathematically impossible for her to win.
Newsflash: She's losing and the only way she can get the nomination is by stealing it.
You say Obama's dirty laundry? Excuse me?
Hillary doesn't have piles upon piles of dirty laundry to match her experience, does she?
April 28, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oops, sorry, it wasn't you who said "dirty laundry". I conflated two comments in my response.
April 28, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is interesting. You think Hillary can win if she manages to snatch away the nomination from Obama? You think AA and the activist of democratic party are going to be inspired to vote and work for Hillary if she snatches away the nomination?
Get a grip people. These polls are all dumb rationale.
Hillary has done much more damage to the party than Obama's pastor's out of context remarks. So get a grip of reality.
April 28, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Problem with these polls is that Hillary will campaign strongly on them - Of course all Barack's dirty laundry is aired and regularly attacked by both sides, what does the Dems think will happen when the GOP machine starts attacking Clinton in a way Barack simply cannot if he hopes to win the General?
April 28, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
A recent poll from Rasmussen suggests that the Democrats' problem in November might not be white voters, but black voters. From the internals of today's Rasmussen poll (sub. req.):
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Sunday shows John McCain attracting 46% of the vote while Barack Obama also earns 46%. In a match-up with Hillary Clinton, it's McCain 47%, Clinton 45%. Among White voters, McCain leads Obama by twelve and Clinton by eleven. Among African-American voters, Obama dominates but Clinton attracts just 59% support.
While both Democrats hold equal numbers among white voters, the big discrepancy comes from black voters.
Who is unelectable? Seems as if Obama and Clinton virtually tie in the white vote. The African American vote? Clinton kissed that goodbye months ago.
April 28, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
We'll see in a week whether this is all her bump out of PA or something more lasting. Obama is running in Indiana more on jobs than change,which is a good thing. Hopefully this all is a lesson to Obama that you can't take anything for granted in politics. If he wins in Indiana, the last two months will be seen as training for the general.
April 28, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
What kind of country do I live in? I guess the MSM has done it's job running Obama's name into the ground, hyping up this fake-ass contest, manufacturing this can't get the white vote crap. I'm sitting here listening to Andrea Mitchell & I just can't believe my ears. Is this it? Basically what Hillary & the MSM are telling me is that my vote doesn't count because they are going to do what they want to do anyway. This is sick.
April 28, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I share your outrage completely.
I've had to turn the tv off or switch channels.
If not for Keith, Jon, and Stephen, I'd have canceled my cable.
I still inclined to.
April 28, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do it.
Best decision you'll ever make.
I'd urge you to go one step further and throw the whole set out the window. In about a week you'll be so busy living that you'll wonder where you ever got the time to watch the inane thing in the first place.
April 28, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow - after reading these posts I have to say that at least a part of the Democrat party are scared of strong women and blacks who speak truth. "Ooh, Tena said a bad word". "Ooh, Rev. Wright is a scary black man". "Tena's (or Carol's) a bitch" (yes, I've gotten a few of those myself). Would you people grow up? Some of you seem awfully racist and mysogynist (or at the very least, sexist). Maybe the question Jon Stewart asked Obama the other night (if you are elected, are you going to enslave the white people?) isn't so far from what some of us here believe. What other explanation is there? I watched the entire Bill Moyers interview and I came away with the fact that Rev. Wright is one of the most intelligent, insightful, patriotic and caring individuals that I have seen. And, he speaks nothing but the truth. He is calm, reasoned and inspires with his words and his work. How many of you who are criticizing him have done the same? For Christ's sake (and I mean that literally), open your minds, would you?
April 28, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well-said, and 100% agreed.
April 28, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hitler could be charming too. So what's your point? "Oh, that Rev. Wright seemed so nice!". My advice to you is to stay away from used-car lots. The salespeople there seem nice, too.
April 28, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
It seems everyone here is missing some salient facts. There are other polls.
Gallup today shows Obama and McCain tied at 45 each and Clinton and McCain in statistical tie at 47/44
Rasmussen today shows Obama and McCain tied at 46/46 and McCain and Clinton at a statisical tie 47/44.
Three polls came out today: AP Ipsos, Gallup and Rasmussen. For some reason, Huffington and cable sites decided to just report one of them. One shows Clinton up 3 on McCain. One shows McCain up 3 on Clinton. And one shows Clinton up 9 on McCain. We usually give less credence to the one poll that is far out in a group. What's going on with the reporting. It appears to be an effort to skew the story. That isn't Huffington's usual way of doing things. How come???
April 28, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary Clinton is a strong woman, by the way.
April 28, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Without a doubt - that I will certainly give her. Using her strength for nefarious, underhanded purposes, though, is NOT OK in my book. Using her strength to frame herself as a victim and then proceed to try and destroy another Democrat is also NOT OK in my book.
April 28, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
could you elaborate on the criteria you've used to come to this conclusion? maybe an operational definition of strong would be a good place to start.
April 28, 2008 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
You'd think HRC would have time to see a dental hygienist in between primaries. Hildog looks like she smokes three packs a day in the front page picture.
April 28, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary has won most of the "contested" and "fair" elections. Obama's significant win are in Wisconsin, Iowa (maybe), and Missouri. The Caucuses don't tell us much except Obama had a better delegate-acquisition strategy. I'd be for Obama had he won Penn or Cali or NJ (or Michigan or Florida :)).
Newsflash: it is not over. Obama does not have enough delegates to win. Until he does, the lead is only about perception. Let's hope the Dem party saves the day and nominates the candidate who can win. This, alas, is not Obama.
April 28, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton can't win. She only garners 59% of the African American vote versus McCain. THAT'S a train wreck!'
Interestingly, Obama and Clinton garner almost identical percentages from white voters...separated by 1%
Interesting!
April 28, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama might need to change what he is doing - if he loses NC and Indiana even I might start questioning him. Heck if his NC win is less than 7 points it's a loss for him.
Look I understand Obama might have locked up the delegate game but so what? Does running a smarter campaign mean you are the better candidate?
Obama seems like he is playing for the tie the rest of the way out, happy to run out the rest of the election and claim the delegate win.
April 28, 2008 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Clintons are not toast in the black community. The black community is not voting for McCain. The black community is the most reliable part of the Dem base. The black community knows they have no chance with the Repbus. So-called Reagan democrats and the "creative class" are the unreliable ones for Dems. Hillary gets the Reagan demcorats. The "creative class" is harder to peg. Generally, they vote their "class" interest which is not the same as working class Democrats. As this site too often shows, the "creative class" often does not give a damn about less affluent Americans. They are too busy celebrating their "education."
April 28, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Probably not, you are right. On the other hand, what if they just stay home in November? Kerry lost OH by ~119K votes. Black voters are estimated to have cast ~484K votes for Kerry in that election. In other words, Clinton would have enough trouble coming up with the 120K necessary to turn OH around if one assumes that every last Kerry voter shows up to vote for her. Assume, however, that ~240K of Kerry's voters are disgusted enough to sit at home on election day and her odds become 3x as daunting.
Kerry won PA by only ~144K votes. Black voters are estimated to have cast ~630K votes for Kerry in that election. Once again, imagine that just half of those voter decide to sit this one out and all of a sudden Clinton needs to replace ~486K voters in order to hang on to that which Kerry carried in 2004.
Give the recent spate of surveys which show growing black voter disaffection for Clinton, do we dare to make the gamble that she can scrape together an extra 360K in OH and 486K in PA?
April 28, 2008 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whoops, that 486K in PA should (of course) be 171K. Sorry for that.
April 28, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes they are.
Don't forget, this is what the Republican party said about African Americans before that break.
Should Hillary win, it would be a choice of either voting for racists who at least seem to be honest about it, and speak of trying to change, and racists who have taken your loyalty and votes for granted in a truly disrespectful way. This isn't just any other election. A black candidate has out-won, out-earned, and out-done the "inevitable" white candidate on every single measure. Besides that, he's jumped through the ridiculous hoops thrown in his way. His losing the nomination at this stage will cause a mass exodus from the Democrats...even if there is nowhere else to go. After all, what differenct would it make?
April 28, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mark my words. If the African American community feels that Clinton used dubious ways to steal the nomination from the rightful winner (Obama), they will absolutely vote for McCain... or sit at home. Both will be deadly for the Democratic party.
Geeesh.... let's run with THAT nightmare on top of the ticket!
April 28, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
dubious? I think that come June after all the primaries are over, the superdelegates will vote in their own best interests, which is that the next President be a Democrat.
I think that's actually the way it's supposed to be.
April 28, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even thought I'm a dyed in the wool Dem, if Obama doesn't get the nomination, I won't be able to bring myself to vote for Clinton. She's too much of a monster. If Hillary gets the nomination, I think it will signal the death of the Democratic party.
April 28, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink