Top Obama Adviser: Hillary Must Remove Ferraro From Campaign
A few days after the Hillary campaign successfully claimed Samantha Power's scalp, the Obama campaign is out to force the Hillary camp to dump one of its own: Geraldine Ferraro.
On a conference call with reporters just now, top Obama adviser David Axelrod called on the Hillary camp to remove Ferraro from her position as major fundraiser for the campaign. Ferraro got in trouble when the news broke yesterday that she had suggested that Obama's race was responsible for his campaign's success...
"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position," she continued. "And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."
Axelrod, on the call, said of Ferraro: "She ought to be removed...there's no other way to send a serious sign that you want to change the tone of the campaign." He added that the remark was part of an "insidious pattern."
It's unclear exactly what Ferraro's role is. She's merely identified on the campaign's Web site as a "Hillraiser," which is to say a major fundraiser with an unofficial role. But she described herself as a member of the campaign's finance committee.
One interesting thing from the call: Obama's female surrogate on the call, Rep. Jan Schakowsky, was generally critical of such negative attacks, saying that "all remarks that diminish Senator Obama’s candidacy because of his race are completely out of line," but she stopped well short of demanding that Ferraro be removed.
We'll bring you the Hillary camp's response as soon as we get it.
Late Update: MSNBC reports that Hillary was asked about Ferraro's comments. "I do not agree with that. It is regrettable that any of our supporters on both sides, because we've both had that experience, say things that kind of veer off into the personal," Hillary said.
"We ought to keep this on the issues. There are differences between us. There are differences between our approaches on health care, on energy, on our experience, on our results that we've produced for people. That's what this campaign should be about."
It's unclear whether she was asked about Axelrod's demand that Ferraro be removed from the campaign.
Late Update: The Hillary campaign is now claiming that the Obama campaign played the race card here.















In a measure of how uncomfortable female pols feel about targeting Ferraro, given her historic role as Veep, Obama's female surrogate on the call, Rep. Jan Schakowsky, stopped well short of demanding that she be removed.
Oh, that's just stupid.
March 11, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Once Obama dumps Jesse Jackson, Jr. for the Katrina remark Hillary can think about this.
Since one of the great themes from the Obama campaign is that isn't it great that you don't care that about my raceand doesn't this unite the country doen's make much sense if he were white, I'd say that Ferraro has a legitimate point.
As to what would happen if Obama were female, I've performed the thought experiment and he comes off as a real rhymes with witch.
Most women are a heck of a lot better at tuning into his snideness than are some emotionally oblivious males.
It is the men who are voting on the basis of gender: when this race started the women who were planning to vote Democratic stuck whoeverthe the Democratic candidate was but the men dropped off to a certain degree if the nominee was Hillary. I expect that the number of women planning to defect if Obama is nominated has been continually rising.
March 11, 2008 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll let my wife, mother, sister, sister-in-law, other sister-in-law, co-worker, other coworker, aunt, and cousin all know that they've betrayed their gender by not tuning into Obama's "snideness."
As a white male I guess I can be labeled a sexist for not supporting Hillary or a racist for not supporting Obama. Or both if I support Edwards.
But isn't this kind of generalization silly? I don't hate Hillary. I like Obama. Nuff said.
March 11, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Howsabout this....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23571095/
March 11, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Mr. Obama has not been accused of any wrongdoing."
True.
March 11, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
OMG! Obama should get out of the race now. There are no allegations or evidence of wrong doing (as spelled out in the link) by Obama in connection with the email. Still, just to be safe, he should get out of the race so the candidate with the real ethical scandals brewing in her backyard can get her shot.
Seriously, why you Clinton supporters insist on trying to push this Obama is dirty because Rezko is dirty meme is beyond me. What with Hsu, Rich, Guistra and Burkle (just to name a few) lurking on the periphery and the Clintons' tortured history with trumped up charges of malfeasance, you would think that you folks would not endorse this guilt by association meme.
March 11, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kefa IS Rezko, and is hoping that if he is convicted he can bribe one of Hillary's brothers and get pardoned. . . just a theory.
March 11, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
You forgot the following: Peter Paul, Aron Tonken, David Rosen
March 11, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oooh an email mentioned Obama!
He should drop out immediately.
March 11, 2008 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about it? Have you read it?
It says the following:
But David Wilhelm, a former campaign adviser to Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich of Illinois who asked that the e-mail message be written, said in an interview that he had never talked about the appointment process to Mr. Obama. Mr. Obama has said he had nothing to do with Mr. Rezko’s activities with the board.
Mr. Obama has not been accused of any wrongdoing, and his name is expected to come up only tangentially during the trial. But given his tight race against Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination, each mention of Mr. Obama’s name is being closely watched.
March 11, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
From the 5th paragraph on this story discounts any improper involvement involving Senator Obama. It further cites, without listing others, that Illinois legislative leaders from both parties were similarly involved.
The big, untold story of the campaign is that Senator Obama is walking the walk regarding change by maintaining a highly ethical, party- and polity-building campaign. He is attempting to change the way we talk to and about each other - for the better. This core campaign strategy was projected in Obama's compelling 2006 book, The Audacity of Hope.
The other remarkable thing about the Obama campaign is the remarkably effective strategy the campaign has created and followed for returning the nominating process to a dialogue between the candidate and the people to an extent unrealized since prior to the advent of broadcast communications over 80 years ago. Senator Obama listens and responds in what I can only style as "real time". He's more present in a conversation than any national politician I've ever talked with, and than most people I talk with in my normal life. He eschews "the noose of predictability" and from this attitude and his propensity to listen to disparate views will be how an Obama administration will govern, and how they will reach out to form new coalitions to achieve renewal of America's hope and America's promise.
March 11, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rep. Schakowsky: “Any and all remarks that diminish Sen. Obama’s candidacy because of his race are completely out of line.”
Strategist David Axelrod: “Offensive statement” reflects “an insidious pattern (in the campaign) that needs to be addressed.”
Separately, agrees with reporter that Clinton campaign’s Wolfson “has assumed a kind of junk-yard dog role in this campaign.”
Plus, says “there’s been a real inflation of credentials” about Clinton’s foreign policy role during the 1990s.
March 11, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
But it is OK to use his race to promote him?
March 11, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Prove it. You've been pushing this forever on these boards, and you haven't proved anything.
March 11, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because so many mulattoes with the name that reminds folks of both a ruthless dictator and a terrorist responsible for the deaths of over 3M Americans is quintessential political GOLD.
At a minimum Ferraro needs to explain what the hell she's talking about. I'd love to understand the logic that went behind her uttering this inane statement on multiple occasions.
And if I recall, this is the second time she's put her foot into her mouth.
March 11, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Obama were not black he would not be getting 90% of the black vote and would not be where he is.
March 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
You say this based on what? Just because it's what you think, doesn't make it so. Hell, Bubba did fairly well with the black vote when he was running and so did Senator Clinton until they start flirting with the edge--if I recall that was the big question of the fall, was Obama black enough, could he win the black vote.
That's like saying that Clinton wouldn't get the female vote if she wasn't a woman. It's not provable and it's demonstrative of NOTHING. Just because the Clintons advance intellectually dishonest arguments, you shouldn't feel compelled to join them.
March 11, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
And if Hillary weren't white, she wouldn't be getting all of the white vote.
What is your point?
March 11, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are absolutely right.
HRC's campaign has shown both an age and gender bias in her base don't you think?
And it is neither sexist nor ageist to make note of the fact.
Nor do I think it racist to note the racial component in Obama's base.
But for those ObaFans who insist that it is racist, well, "fairy tale" is also a racist slur.
Spare me.
March 11, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some black voters initially claimed Obama wasn't black enough because he didn't kowtow to demagogues like Al Sharpton. He's from Hawaii originally, half white, and was editor of the Harvard Law Review. Now you're claiming he's getting the black vote just due to race?
Get real! You just want to talk race cause you're racist.
Obama won the black vote on substance. They don't vote for blacks like Colin Powell or Condi Rice. They used to vote for the Clintons in the 90% range, despite being lily white, because the Clintons used to be their best choice. Not any more.
Yes, Obama is half black. But he's also far more Progressive than Hillary, was against the war, and has done community work for working people, black, white, and brown. Which means he's far more in tune not only with blacks, but with young people, urbane and college educated professionals, across color, creed, and gender lines. How does colr explain that? It doesn't. Only appeal on issues explains Obama's popularity.
By comparison look at Hillary. She gets more of the conservative elderly vote, especially suburban and rural white women. The same people who have always have supported her without question, and who support all white women candidates. Hillary also gets more of the Hispanic vote, who are often conservative, and tend to back machine candidates.
Hillary's support comes from three big things:
1) gender politics
2) conservative Dems (rural + elderly)
3) machine politics based not on merits but on loyalty and favors owed.
None of which will contrast her from McCain or win the GE.
March 11, 2008 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
All of the white vote? What planet have you been living on?
March 11, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
And if he weren't Black, she wouldn't be getting the overwhelming White vote she's getting, especially in the South. Your point?
March 11, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Overwhelming"? Obama won 43% of the white vote in Georgia, 44% of the white vote in Texas, 42% of the white vote in Maryland and 52% of the white vote in Virginia. That's not so different from his percentages among whites in Connecticut (48%), Delaware (40%), and Massachusetts (40%), and better than he did in Rhode Island (37%) and Ohio (34%), so I don't think "overwhelming" or "especially in the South" really applies.
It really irritates me that you Obama-ites are so critical of white women because they often vote strongly for Sen. Clinton, calling them narrow, sexist, too caught up in identity politics, etc., etc., but you would never apply the same kinds of criticisms to the 80-90% of African-Americans who vote for Obama.
March 11, 2008 3:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are exactly right and that is my point!
March 11, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Howsabout this.....
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23571095/
March 11, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rezko tourette's syndrome kefa. I think you have it bad. Keep bringing it up though, all you want. It's getting old and boring really fast, which is a good thing for the general election.
In the interim, I think you might want to seek help for your affliction.
March 11, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Spammer.
March 11, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Howsabout this....
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2008/03/sinbad_unloads_on_hillary_clin.html
March 11, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sinbad money quote:
March 11, 2008 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think that I would go there on this remove from the campaign bs. Let the clintons do that. Ferraro has said some incredible things, big deal. Who cares? Let it go. Move onto the non-experience arguments and not ready from day one.
March 11, 2008 2:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Meh. This does nothing for me. Unless it's meant as theater of the absurd to show how stupid the denounce, reject and fire attacks are.
March 11, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Every time she tries to get self-righteous, she gets bitten. When will she learn?
March 11, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary is desperate and increasingly delusional. Is she trying to set up McCain to win, thinking she can take another shot in 12 that way? Ferraro's effort to sow racial resentment reaches out to the worst aspects of America. Obama appeals to our better angels and that's why he's inspiring a movement for change. I believe that America is better than this. People aren't going to fall for Ferraro's cynical ploy and this kind of thing won't help Clinton/McCain. The national polls show that. Obama is by far the better GE candidate in head-to-head polling precisely because he believes in and is fighting to restore the American dream for everyone rather than cynically trying to exploit resentment and stereotypes.
March 11, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, what's your basis for this statement?:
March 11, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who's afraid of a big bad revote...ololololololololol Obama is thats who.
March 11, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just full of misinformation today aren't you? Obama's fine with a revote. Florida law doesn't permit mail-in ballots.
March 11, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you've overdosed on Kool Aid.
Why don't they do caucus'? Michigan has a history of doing caucus' and they are much less expensive.
March 11, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you read the article?
There's no 'there' there.
Apparently Obama worked on a committee that appointed officials for a hospital board. But the person that worked with the mayor says that he never discussed officials with Obama.
What's the story???
Pray tell, you brought it up. What EXACTLY does this link prove?
March 11, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm curious about the timing of the interview in question. If it was deliberately timed to coincide with late-deciding voters in Mississippi, then it could easily be a calculated attempt to boost Clinton's percentage of the white vote, which was going to be substantial anyway. Think about Clinton campaign behavior before other recent primaries in which playing the dog whistle/race card was part of the plan. Think about it: these despicable comments may HELP Clinton in Mississippi, and keep Obama below the threshold needed to have a commanding delegate win.
March 11, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah. Good point. How about it. What does this have to do with what ?
March 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ferraro is a big player in the Clinton Camp.
They send her to represent them on PBS Newshour last week.
She told of how big a role she played in helping them organize in Florida.
The Clinton Camp demanded that Samantha Power be removed from the Obama campaign. Ms. Ferraro is guilty of blatant racism, and should be removed from the Clinton Camp. Time for Hillary to do as she says: Reject and Denounce Racist Ferraro Now, Self Righteous Hillary!
March 11, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Blacks vote for Obama 8-2 because he is black. The Black Pride Vote has been turning out in historic numbers and are largely responsible for many wins.
If Obama was a white man, would black voter turn out like they have? I doubt it. They'd just like at him like another white dude tryin to bamboozle them.
If the black vote did turn out for Obama, would he be were he is now?
March 11, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Hillary did not have a vagina, would those massive amount of Woman who have turned out to vote for her, have done so. She does keep reminding them about how historic it would be for them to elect the first vagina.
March 11, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
What rock did you crawl out from under?
March 11, 2008 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd be willing to bet he has FAR more white votes than black votes in the primaries. Not a lot of black folk in Iowa, Kansas, NH, Idaho, etc.
March 11, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
and Wisconsin.
March 11, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, notwithstanding the typos, if obama were not african-american, he would probably have the nomination sewn up already. The clintons wouldn't have been able to race bait and play the race card and they wouldn't have won new hampshire. As a result, they would have lost by super tuesday based on obama's momentum coming out of the early primaries.
Oh, one other point,last time I checked there weren't too many african-americans in iowa, new hampshire, wyoming, idaho, washington, etc. I am sick of this stupid argument and crass racism from clinton cultists. He has won states that are virtually 100 percent caucasian.
March 11, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
THANK YOU!
OBVIOUSLY, THE OBVIOUS IS NOT TOO OBVIOUS!
NOW! GO SEE idiotic!
March 11, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please provide a historical, literary, or logical rational for declaring "fairy tale" a racist slur.
That was the opening shot in the race war and it was fired by the Obama camp.
The argument that Obama's 90% of the black vote has enabled his campaign's success is not the same as saying it is the only reason for his success. Obviously that latter is not the case.
And it is equally true that if HRC lacked that C it is highly doubtful that she would be where she is. Or if she were not a woman. Or even, I think, if she were not of a certain age and race.
To note these biases in each candidate's base is not a slur on them or their voters.
Both Obama and Clinton, while enjoying some benefits from their genders, ages, races, names, also enjoy disabilities due to these same attributes and it advances nothing to try and shut down conversation on these points by charging sexism, racism, or any other ism on the books.
March 11, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hate this reply system and I will come back to this point when I have more time, because you constantly throw up the race issue and who played it and I submit that you are wrong.
There were a host of comments coming from the clinton camp that were demeaning and could be construed as race baiting prior to new hampshire. One comment was the fairy tale comment that was made by mr. bill. It was not that comment alone, but the entire context that needs to be analyzed. The thrust basically was that he was the uppity african-american with no experience, he was a kid who could give a good speech, he was "shucking and jiving." Dissing MLK, by saying it took a white president to help out those uppity good speaking african-americans. Etc.
Obama's campaign said nothing and did nothing. They tried to ignore the race issue, because obviously it is a loser for them. It doesn't take rocket science to see that one. The clintons were attempting to bait a response ala the angry black man, which didn't happen. Then they played up that obama was injecting race into the race, which wasn't true, but played to a certain portion of the electorate. Again silence from the obama campaign. Obama lost nh.
Then the clintons called a "truce" with themselves over the race issue post new hampshire. Find me any quotes from obama or official surrogates playing the race card prior to new hampshire. You will find none. The
"truce" was laughable.
The clintons thought they could spin there way out of pissing off their african-american support, which they led 60 to 40 prior to new hampshire. It tanked post new hampshire. Do you think all those people are just making up what they perceived the clintons were doing???
When they saw that they were going to get blown out in sc, because of their pre-new hampshire conduct, they tried to down play the win by again trying to paint obama as the angry black man with the comments comparing him to jesse jackson. I hear mr. bill and his lies and distortions and the comments concerning jackson and I just want to puke. It really is disgusting.
Well, food for thought.
March 11, 2008 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
We have a basic disagreement over the meaning and intent of assorted comments from both sides.
If I understand correctly you are saying that "fairy tale" while not a racist slur in itself was lit upon by the Obama camp when it came up because by then they basically had had it with the Clinton camp's "racist" comments.
Do I understand correctly?
My problem is that you elide together all of these disparate comments, not one of which can be claimed an actual slur, but which you interpret as such and largely because of a claimed cumulative effect.
I think that's bs and under that analysis everything comes to be a racist slur.
Oh wait, that's just what the Obama camp started saying!
We are going to have to disagree over whether saying that it took both King and Johnson to pass the mid 60's civil rights legislation was a dissing of King. If nothing else it is certainly true. Or whether Bill's wrong headed comparison of Obama's coalition to Jackson's was meant to racially denigrate Obama.
I don't think so and if only because Jesse Jackson was and continues to be a Clinton friend. I'll also point out that before Super Tuesday Clinton was not the only commentator to doubt that Obama could expand his coalition sufficiently to take the WH. Those talking heads were proven wrong but I don't think proven racist.
But enough. Better men than I have argued the point to no resolution and they do go on.
I think that Obama took a purposefully offended and tendentious reading of the Clinton campaign's statements with the particular purpose of driving up Clinton's negatives in the AA and wider communities.
The fact that you must defend the "fairy tale" accusations by saying "well no but it can be construed as because they said these other things that suggested" is to my mind confirmation of my thesis.
And while I don't want to offend you it is exactly that sort of argument that convinced 85% of Americans to support invading Iraq.
It makes me equally unquiet.
March 11, 2008 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you know this because of your extensive polling of African-Americans. What about the non-blacks that voted for him? You know, Idaho, Iowa, Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Washington, Colorado, North Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Minnesota, Wisconsin? I suppose they voted for him because he was black too.
Moron.
March 11, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Absolute nonsense. Blacks are voting for Obama not because he's black, but because the Clintons have been racist. Blacks are quite willing to vote for a white - the polls months ago showed most favored Hillary - but they aren't willing to vote for a racist. Oh, and then there's the matter of Obama being the best orator in American politics since at least FDR, and his showing the steadiness that Clinton's schizoid behavior lacks. I write this from 99% white Vermont. We prefer Obama by an overwhelming ratio too. It has to do with cultural standards for honesty and staying cool.
March 11, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
commenters, I encourage you all to listen to the audio when it's available. you'll see that Jan explicitly went out of her way to NOT name Ferraro in the section where she was being critical of such comments in a general way.
But no need to believe me, listen to the audio
March 11, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
A transcript would be good since I'm deaf and cannot hear the audio.
March 11, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
You got it wrong again.
"All politics is local" Thomas Tip O'Neill
David Axelrod demanded that the Clintons remove Ferraro for her racist remarks.
It would have been foolish to have the congresswoman gild the lilly and risk losing some supporters in her district. She is up for reelection.
March 11, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nancy Pelosi just said:
Nancy Pelosi tells Boston TV that a Clinton-Obama or Obama-Clinton ticket is "impossible."
"I think that the Clinton administration has fairly ruled that out by proclaiming that Senator McCain would be a better Commander in Chief than Obama. I think that either way is impossible," she said.
Also: "Nothing ever resolves itself -- it has to be resolved by some outside forces," she said.
www.politico.com/bensmith
March 11, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, now she is a leader, super smart and crushed the question out of the ball park. Awesome. You go girl. I don't think that there is alot of love between pelosi and clinton.
March 11, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
BKinDaHouse, where would Hillary Clinton be if she weren't married to a President of the United States?
March 11, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ferraro must GO! If Obama's people get FIRED for saying things -- so should Hillary's people.....unless she's playing another BUSH?
March 11, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
"In a measure of how uncomfortable female pols feel about targeting Ferraro, given her historic role as Veep, Obama's female surrogate on the call, Rep. Jan Schakowsky, stopped well short of demanding that she be removed."
OTOH maybe Schakowsky knows how unreasonable it was to demand Powers be fired and has nothing to do with Ferraro's 'historic first'. Ferraro is a far bigger ass than Powers based on her comments. Ferraro essentially attacked an entire GROUP of Americans vs. Powers remarks. Ferraro thinks it is OK to play the racemonger while at the same time bemoaning sexism and wallowing in the benefits of affirmative action based on gender? Give me a break.
Ferraro's statement was deliberate and part of the continuing pattern of the Clinton campaign to race bait and drive wedges between Americans based on race. This has become a persistent and consistent tactical feature of the Clinton campaign strategy. Ferraro's words were meant to fan the flames of the 'reverse affirmative action' that smolders in and among the white working class blue collar ethnics community among males. As well as in backyards of suburbia where non-employed whitewives look out for their coporate spouses.
The worse part of it all is that both Ferraro and Hillary are the biggest affirmative action cases in the history of Presidential politics. Hillary uses her role as Mrs.BillClinton to attest for her most significant experience to be CinC while at the same time being dismissive of a MAN who happens to be black and who has demonstrated far greater achievements, has been in elected office longer, passed far more significant legislation than she has while at the same time demonstrating sound judgment on the biggest foreign policy strategic blounder in history for the USA. Yet somehow in Ferraro and Hillary's mind HE is the affirmative action candidate? riiiiiiight
Hillary and Ferraro need to just stop with this credentials game because neither of them have any claim or 'entitlement' to the WH on the basis of race and certainly not on their gender. Just as Obama doesn't on race. The problem is that white women DO believe they have some historical entitlement over MEN and especially BLACK men when it comes to opportunities and advancement in America. All this, DESPITE, white woman being the penultimate affirmative action recipients...while they loudly and vehemently denounce affirmative action for people of color? What kind of socio-psycho racist feminism is that?
Ferraro's remarks were totally uncalled for...Ferraro even called being black a friggin concept! I have news for Ms. Ferraro and her race baiting of white males just like Bill and Hill did in S. Carolina. There is nothing LUCKY in America about being black. Being born black in America is a long ways from hitting the affirmative action lottery. UNLIKE being a white female affirmative action which is a lucky lottery ticket. White females are the largest beneficiary group of affirmative action. Perhaps, if the media covered that fact, folks like Ferraro would know she is biting her nose to spite her face when she trys to sneer at what she perceives to be affirmative action on the basis of race, while she basks in the entitlement of affirmative action on the basis of gender.
What riDICulousness and it is all fostered by Steinem.
March 11, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
"What we have is unofficial results and they are not complete," said party spokesman Hector Nieto. "We won't know the official results until we have the senatorial and county conventions on March 29."
18 more days to go.........then we will finally find out who won the texas caucus.
ALL states should do away with caucuses they take to long to find out who won and they aren't fair....A caucus is not held during the general election so why should they be held during this process.
I think delegates should be done away too.....
I think popular vote is what should determine who the winner is....
It makes life easy and fair.
anyways Guam is the only other place that has a caucus all others will be primaries between know and June.
CNN is going to start talking about the mississppi results tonight around 6pm edt.....all polls in mississippi close at 8pm edt.
March 11, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
On the caucus issue, which I am not fond of, apparently caucuses are the way voting was done in this country until the late 1800's. There were no secret ballots for elections. People would gather in their precincts and raise their hands for who they voted for and then the results would get reported up the chain. Kind of fascinating when you think about it. Maybe caucses aren't such a bad thing for primaries because it gets people actively involved.
I am sure that if the clintons did better in caucuses they wouldn't be whining. It is kind of strange that they haven't done well in light of the democratic party machine that they supposedly controlled. Sounds to me like a poorly run campaign and bad management as opposed to a problem with caucuses per se. Whine on clinton cultists.
March 11, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think it a whine to note that the secret ballot is usually considered a sine qua non of democratic voting systems.
Where there is no secret ballot there is no true freedom of the vote, though obviously secret ballots alone do not suffice to make an election system free.
And it has nothing to do with being for or against Clinton or Obama.
Also caucus hours, being far more limited than voting hours, of necessity tend to disenfranchise voters who are working that shift (that was the reason for the strip caucuses in Las Vegas).
Single parents, especially poor working women, are also put to a disproportional hardship.
Another problem with caucuses is that they attempt to bring together all precinct voters at a single time and place. As we have seen repeatedly this season that often means voters turned away from caucuses. While this is largely a matter of poor planning by the parties, things like parking are most often beyond their control.
Shall we discuss the mischief charged by both camps because caucuses are run by party members while primary elections are run by the states more accountble election regimes?
None of these observations has anything to do with fandom and are completely independent of party affiliation.
March 11, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not arguing with you and I am not particularly fond of caucuses. I did find the historical aspect concerning caucuses interesting though. The secret ballot is a relatively modern phenomena, which I found fascinating.
You have to admit though that you would think that the clintons would be cleaning up in the caucuses as opposed to a newcomer like obama. I find it kind of odd that they aren't at least more competative regardless of all the problems that you raised.
The fact that they aren't doing so well is probably indicative of the fact that the core of the dem party is not particularly fond of the clintons. The people going to the caucuses would be by and large party activists. Based on that assumption, isn't it better for the party to have the diehard activists chosing the standard bearer for the party as opposed to casual voters? Just a thought.
March 11, 2008 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I take your point and that is I think the chief if not only argument for caucuses, that they test the most ardent of the base.
The thing about caucuses is that they demand that individual candidates really establish and motivate, much more than in a primary, their own ground operations independent of the party machine which to a more or less successful degree has to try and maintain neutrality.
HRC's failures are not due to the fact that caucuses are less democratic than elections; it is that her base is less likely to have the time and energy to devote to organizing. And the fact that her campaign never had a Plan B to engage the caucuses.
Obama has been brilliant at bringing in younger voters, tech savvy voters, blacks, a wide range of constituencies that HRC not only did not attempt to tap but I don't think could have on her best day.
And of course this has not been limited to caucuses.
I mean no slight to Obama when I say that I think his chief selling point is this very ability to expand and build upon the Dem base nationwide.
There are many reason's for HRC's failure but they can all be summed up by the fact that she ran a 20th century campaign in the 21st.
Her failure has nothing to do with Obama's race or oratory or anything else (except insofar as Obama's talent and skill provide a viable alternative) so much as with her own faults which a national race and her temperament have tended to blow out of all proportion.
March 11, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good analysis. The only thing on the caucus issue, she has had local machine support in alot of the caucus states and she still fell flat. I do think the war votes hurt her big time with the base and she really never adequately addressed those votes.
Also, inspiration is a good thing, especially in politics. I still can't believe that obama draws crowds for a 20 minute speech of 20 to 30,000. That's phenominal and good for the dem party in the long run.
I do agree that the clintons' campaign was run like a 20th century campaign in the 21st century. People will be studying these campaigns for quite some time. I think long term for the health of our political system its good that obama ran the campaign that he has. It really has shaken up the system and scared the republican establishment to death. Definitely obama's campaign is good for the country long term, regardless of the ultimate outcome.
March 11, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, no, I believe the polling has shown that Clinton is getting considerable support from traditional Democratic voters. Obama's biggest strength (aside from the African-American vote) is among new voters and independents, and this primary season has seen an unusual number of new, independent, and crossover voters pulling the Democratic ballot. It's certainly to Obama's credit that he has been able to excite that demographic, but your interpretation of the numbers ignores them entirely.
March 11, 2008 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was talking about caucuses, not primaries.
March 11, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Boy, funny how Hillary and her followers' principled stand against caucuses didn't materialize back when they were helping to formulate the Call to Convention. I'm sure its purely coincindental that they developed this deep and abding concern for the "disenfranchisement" of people who were too lazy, too ADD or too busy to attend a caucus only after they started consistently getting their collective asses kicked in them by a candidate who knows how to run a competent campaign and spend his contributors' dollars wisely.
March 11, 2008 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who has the power to decide how to nominate: The DNC or the states?
Who should have the power?
March 11, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Isn't the point of the primary season to select the candidate that the PARTY will support in the general election? Nothing is stopping any candidate from running as a third party/independent. Thus, the PARTY should decide whom the party should support.
In short, to answer your question, the DNC.
If you don't like the DNC rules, become active in the party and join the DNC. Sit on the rules committee, and change the rules.
The people who sit on the committees in the DNC LOVE the party. They do not make rules to disenfranchise anyone. All of this talk is nonsense from people who don't like the results of the primary season.
March 11, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
im glad to see this from team obama. they were playing defense for too many days.
March 11, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Obama should simply say that it is an insult to all of the people who have voted for him to suggest that they are ignorant suckers motivated by nothing but tokenism or superficial race-based sentimentality, and that we should all resist final desperate efforts by Clinton surrogates to divide the country along racial lines. Then he should let the it go. It doesn't help him to flog this issue or demand apologies or a resignation from Ferraro. If this becomes some sort of Don Imus black-white cause celebre, he loses.
March 11, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
You gotta love the sewer into which the Clinton campaign has chosen to take us all. Now this idiotic campaign is going to be nothing more than mindless tit-for-tatting and an uninterrupted stream of resignations from frustrated and boneheaded campaign advisers.
March 11, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm simply flabbergasted that Hillary supporters are actually trying to spin Ferraro's statements as acceptable.
March 11, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll ask again.
Would Obama have won as many delegates as he has without the 8-2 Collective Black Pride Vote?
Not to mention all the black super delegates climbing over themselves for a piece of pie.
March 11, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Read the responses to your prior 3 posts copying the same statement putz. Go play at redstate.com or hillaryis44.org. Have fun.
March 11, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Many African-American superdelegates are elected officials representing majority African-American areas.
They are simply representing the views of their electorate.
March 11, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's an unanswerable question. It's like asking, if Hillary Clinton wasn't Bill Clinton's wife, would she be a senator. It can't be answered and thus is a meaningless question.
March 11, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
But it is not a meaningless question, not really.
And I think that even if we can't provide a provable answer that we can still get quite close to satisfaction.
If HRC lacked that C would she now be a candidate running as strong as she is? Hell no and I think only a fool or trickster would argue yes.
March 11, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would Hillary have won NH without all the 60plus female votes?
What about Bill Clinton would he have won Michigan numerous other states without the black vote?
Why is the black vote an issue when the politician is not white and just a 'political prize' when the politician is white?
The Democrats want to tout their strength among black voters only when the politician is white, is that it?
Historically, far more white politicians have been elected by blacks voting as a bloc for them than politiicans who are black, so why is the overwhelming strength of the black vote now an issue.
The press also doesn't call white politicans campaigning in black churches ministers when they pander for the black vote either.
March 11, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, when your candidate and her husband race-bait throughout the campaign, what the fuck do you expect? For us to just thank the "massa" and vote for her anyway? Please.
March 11, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand the need to downplay the role of race, gender, or anything else in the campaigns.
If we lived in a color or sex blind society then of course.
But really isn't it as silly to say that Obama's race has not been of some benefit to him as to say that it has not been a drawback?
Who is dumb enough to say, as but one example, that Obama has not lost some votes because of his race?
I think the problem arises when people attribute or assume someone is attributing Obama's success solely or even largely to his race. That is a lie and racist and worse.
March 11, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hello? Ferraro did JUST THAT, and you're defending her. Now you're calling US racists?
Smell what you're shoveling.
March 11, 2008 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
No I am not calling your "us" racists whoever your "us" is.
I don't read Ferraro's comment the same way you do.
To my reading it is no more offensive than saying that HRC would not be where she is if she wasn't Bill's wife.
Both seem obviously true to me.
However if I shared your interpretation of Ferraro's remark I would be at least as offended as you are.
March 11, 2008 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
This tit for tat, we had to fire Power so you have to fire Ferraro, seems pointless and petty. The Clinton campaign, in my opinion, looked stupid demanding that Power be ditched. Ferraro said something that defies credulity--seriously, Geraldine, what were you thinking? A black man in the US is "lucky"?--but what can the Obama campaign gain from demanding that she be "fired" in retaliation? If anyone has insight into this line of attack, I'd be interested in hearing it.
March 11, 2008 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Black are really so lucky in American Politics. They are 13% of the population and have lucked into having one percent of the US Senate seats, and I guess, since he has a white parent, that is actually only half of one percent. Ms. Ferraro real has some very profound political insights into the political advantages that Black Americans have, doesn't she!
March 11, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
At this rate, stupid surrogates will be enough to keep the media going for the next 7 weeks. Problem solved, I guess.
March 11, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would Hillary have gotten where she is without the 3 to 1 vote from Women and in some cases from Whites? NOPE.
March 11, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
You telling me Hillary has not used her gender as a trump card to play in this campaign? Harharhar.
March 11, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's really sad when I read the same type of hate comments about Hillary as I've read in the past about George W Bush and Dick Cheney.
She's gotten her OWN PARTY to hate her almost as much as they hate Bush.
March 11, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who the F is using Obama's race to promote him??? He knows that's political suicide and has assiduously avoided injecting race into the campaign. The only people to do so are the Sinbadders, everyone from Bill (Jesse Jackson won SC) to now Ferraro.
Hillary is the only one to run on identity politics. Any assertion to the contrary is based on ignorance or deception. Period.
March 11, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Haha, Kefa, you are pathetic. I absolutely LOVE how every time anyone points out that Hillary isn't as electable as Obama, or that Hillary is lying about an attack, or that Hillary doesn't actually have the experience that she says she has, one of you idiots, generally either you or Matthew Weaver always say "Rezko Rezko Rezko", even though it has been debunked, and even though Obama hasn't done anything wrong, he hasn't been implicated in anything, and Hillary and Bill have TONS more ethical dirty laundry that can be thrown right back at you. Seriously, get a clue. You can try to tear Obama down with your throwing stones from a glass house routine, but it isn't going to make your allegations any more true, and it isn't going to make your candidate suck any less. Face it, she is going down because she is the inferior candidate. Get used to it.
March 11, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
DENOUNCE AND REJECT
March 11, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
It sounds like Axelrod is beginning to get desperate. What precisely was wrong with what Ferraro said? It is simply a statement of fact.
Sen. Obama has used the black pride card to haul in 80% of the African-American vote. He actually invokes the language of Malcolm X in doing so, when he says that folks should not be misled into believing what white politicians (the Clintons) are saying.
March 11, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
"It sounds like Axelrod is beginning to get desperate."
Yes, nothing like a better than two-to-one advantage in states won, along with a substantial lead in both pledged delegate and popular vote totals and a likely double digit victory in today's primary to bring out the desperation in a campaign.
"He actually invokes the language of Malcolm X in doing so, when he says that folks should not be misled into believing what white politicians (the Clintons) are saying."
Especially when they have been proven liars.
March 11, 2008 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Especially when THEY have been proven liars."
This is exactly the kind of innuendo that Obama supporters engage in frequently. Tkey try to tie he bad things about Bill AND all the far worse things about the administration of George W. to Hillary.
Hillary has NOT been proven a liar, and on the contrary is a person of high moral character.
March 11, 2008 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, Barack HUSSEIN Obama has so many obvious advantages over Hillary CLINTON. And his identity demographic (African Americans) is so much bigger than Sinbad's (women).
And has anyone noted the obvious irony that Ferraro wouldn't have been on Mondale's ticket if she hadn't been a woman? I mean, please. This kind of bitter, first-wave feminist whining does nothing for the cause.
And where are those tax returns, oh Vetted One?
March 11, 2008 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
BK,
What is your point. White men were for Edwards. Women are for Hillary. Black are for Obama.
Identity politics is a fact of American life. The difference is that Obama is not saying "Vote for me because I am black". Hillary on the other hand is openly playing the gender card.
Btw, if Obama wasn't black his support in the African American community would not be as high, however his support among Latinos would be much greater. Now, without the 3 to 1 advantage Hillary gains from Latinos (which is based largely on race) where would she be?
March 11, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where exactly is it Ferraro is supposed to be removed to? This campaign can't get more inane, oh wait, yes it can!
March 11, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, if the Clinton campaign can demand the firing of an unpaid advisor, surely the Obama camp can ask for the firing of a finance committee member.
March 11, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why is it ok for Hillary to get votes due to Feminism and her last name but its wrong for Obama to get votes because of "black pride". Alan Keyes or Jesse Jackson never made it this far as Obama. So its more than him being black that got him votes from the black population.
so,Would Hillary have won as many delegates as she has without the Latino, Gender, Name recognition Vote
March 11, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
No.
And in my humble opinion gender and race and oratory and ideas and everything else are components of a candidates being and thus it is perfectly appropriate to for voters to consider these things, weighting them as they will.
We should be much less concerned with people voting for a supposed "wrong" reason than with them not voting at all.
March 11, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
The BHO camp has yelled with ferocity since day one that his was an historic event in American politics, and they are correct. The HRC camp has done the same, and we are correct. Given that, there are some realities that can be acknowledged if not wholly accepted and Ferraro's comments fall in one of those two categories. BHO looks weak and child-like when he and his supporters are "offended" by ANY association of his heritage with his ascent to becoming a major political player. Ferraro has earned the standing, based on her unique experience in trying to break that glass ceiling, to comment without Obama people going ballistic.
March 11, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's supporters are rightly offended when a former Democratic congresswoman says that Obama's success is due to his being lucky to be "black." Obviously, Ms. Ferraro has never been "black" in America. The only thing she's qualified to do is pull her foot out of her mouth. She foolishly pissed away any credibility that she might have earned.
March 11, 2008 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!
!!!HLLMENTUM™!!!!
March 11, 2008 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't wait until TMP posts Sinbads reaction.. Ha Ha
March 11, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
BKindaHouse, why not STFU already. Why are older people overwhelmingly voting for Hillary(especially older white voters), or Women, or White people in general? See, two can play that game. People seem to forget that when AAs vote like 90% for democrats in the general election. You think they just like voting democratic in block or just maybe they prefer the the party on issues!
Funny enough, the % of AA voting for Barack started going up after the whole south carolina brouhaha. Maybe, just maybe AAs started preferring him to her as a candidate and not just cos he is black. This is not to say that a lot of AAs don't support him based on his race. A lot of Hillary's supporters probably do so cos she's a woman too. Bottomline, enough with using statistical correlations to make stupid political arguments.
March 11, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think SC saw a rise in AA support for Obama largely due to two things:
First, blacks (but not only blacks) saw that he was an incredibly smart and talented and able candidate able to go all the way to the WH and
Second, Obama made it a matter of racial pride by really playing the race card.
I fully expect to get hell for the latter observation and as soon as someone provides a reasonable rational for making "fairy tale" a racist slur then I'll gladly withdraw my comment and join the choir.
March 11, 2008 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
The one thing that I find the most interesting is that there are people so dumb that they actually think that the system will work when it is already broken. I mean take a look at what chairman Dean did to the primary. Now the dems have to basically write off two very important states unless they count the votes. Also when you give upper class entitled feeling people, supedelegates, a second vote, it messes it all up. For example, What if I was a superdelegate and I wanted to participate in my local primary. I have the option and constitutional right. After doing so, I then can watch the primary transpire and if it turns out that my first vote was wrong, I can change my mind when it is time for my superdelegate vote. Ask the regular citezens of a non-caucus state if that is fair. What if average Joe from New Hampshire is upset that he voted for Clinton? He can't change his mind and get a second chance, unless he is a delegate that makes it to the National Convention, which is a slim chance. The system is total bull and there needs to be a uniform method done in every state and have it done in a popular vote with a winner take all delegate system.
In regards to the he said she said controversy, Clinton needs to show some backbone and fire people for making stupid and inappropriate remarks. If not there is a sign of poor judgement and lack of leadership and moral authority. I know many people that are disgusted with her and will vote Republican if she is on the ticket in any position, even if Obama picks her. If the situation was the other way, Obama would be just like Huckabee and everyone would be saying daily to back out. I bet Hilary would pull a Lieberman and run as an independant because she wants to be president more than she actually cares about her party and country. If she cared and respected the process she would back down. How many times did she ignore Obama's victories and played politics as usual instead of saying, "good game" and congratulated Obama? I think the last straw will be the taxes and she is trying to avoid that like it is the plague. It is obvious there is something to hide. So for those of you who want her, go ahead support her but she has already lost and you know that the superdelegates would be the worst way to tell the party you don't know better. It will never happen and if it does, get ready for McCain as #44.
March 11, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
If any Clinton supporter is hanging on the belief that there is a standard of decency in the Clinton campaign, please pay attention to how the Clinton campaign handles Ferraro's race based statements. I can assure you that if such a statement came from the Obama campaign, that person would have resigned already. I'll go out on a limb and say I have such a negative opinion of the Clinton's after this campaign that Ferraro will not be held accountable. And that's the whole point, the Clinton's are a blue version of the Bush administration. No accountability, no standards, no ethics, just power.
March 11, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's all sit back and watch as Hillary makes Obama seem small, petty and unable to articulate justification for his fake outrage. He's been a fake, a facade all along. He's just an actor reading lines with no cred.
Talk about double speak. Obama claims that this his candidacy is not about race but consistently plays the race card.
He's out of his league.
March 11, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary won't do shit. She's expected to campaign dirty, she's expected to talk double speak, she's expected to move the goal posts.
Barack "fired" (resigned) Powers because he had the mantle of the hopeful feel good campaign. Some booed him for "caving" to Clinton. I say he did the right thing, he took away CLinton's bone that she could have chewed on. Powers can come back for the general if she wants she was a liability at the moment.
Hillary won't blink about Ferraro, she'll just spin, misdirect and obfuscate. And the media won't crucify her for it because she's living up to type. Which is excused cause it's a hard life for a female candidate and she has to make up for whatever percieved disadvantages the mean old media and male dominated society have foisted upone her. What I'd really like is for this Sinbad thing to get some traction. See him on a talk show maybe parodied on SNL or Daily Show or Colbert.
March 11, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good to see the GOP doesn't have exclusive rights to the racist bloc.
March 11, 2008 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you and many who try to use "Rezko" as some kind of weigh over Obama supporters take the time to read these reports you would find that Obama hasn't committed any wrong doing.
March 11, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Hillary camp hasn't rejected Ferraro's claims yet. Wow. An entire day of not responding.
March 11, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
And if Ferraro wasn't a woman we never would have heard of her either. What a ridiculous comment.
March 11, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ferraro is a big player in the Clinton Camp.
They send her to represent them on PBS Newshour last week.
She told of how big a role she played in helping them organize in Florida.
The Clinton Camp demanded that Samantha Power be removed from the Obama campaign. Ms. Ferraro is guilty of blatant racism, and should be removed from the Clinton Camp. Time for Hillary to do as she says: Reject and Denounce Racist Ferraro Now, Self Righteous Hillary!
March 11, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I cannot BELIEVE Ferraro even said that out loud; she isn't even trying to HIDE her blatant racism. She's disgusting.
And all Hillary says is "we disagree with her"? But she whined and cried about someone called her a name? Clinton is a loathesome creature. She should have ripped Ferraro a new one publicly and fired her.
I never realized how hideous the Clintons really were until this campaign. Repulsive.
March 11, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hard to believe that Democrats would be ready to tear down a historic figure like Geraldine Ferraro on this. Bad mojo.
March 11, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I have a dream that one day my children will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character".
MLK, Jr.
March 11, 2008 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama just needs to reduce Ferraro's remark to the redicule it so richly deserves,,,,, with the humorous observation that obviously Ms Ferraro doesn't support Affirmative Action.
GOBAMA 08
March 11, 2008 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary Clinton just responded on this per Politico.com in Pennsylvania:
"I dont agree with that, and I think its important that we try to stay focused on issues that matter to the American people," she said. "And both of us have had supporters and staff members who've gone over the line and we have to rein them in and try to keep this on the issues. There are big differences between us on the issues - lets stay focused on that."
March 11, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why don't Obama supporter give black voters their props. Blacks folks are carrying you through the elections. Are you ashamed of this?
March 11, 2008 3:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Blacks [sic] folks are carrying you through the elections.
Like they did in Utah, Idaho, Colorado, Vermont, Washington, Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa, right?
Are you ashamed of this?
Supporters of HRC shouldn't ever mention the word "shame."
March 11, 2008 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Though I was too young to understand it at the time it is easy to see how the Democrats suffered the biggest blowout in Presidential politics with her as the VP canidate.
March 11, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
democratICnproud,
Obama's campaign is historic not because he is black, but because he is the first candidate in ages that people feel that they are voting for, not just against the other guy.
He grew to prominence not because of the color of his skin but because he gave one hell of a speech at the Democratic National Convention that echoed the feelings of a nation. He maintains his standing because with a million individual donors he has no campaign bundlers to repay. He is the best shot America has had in a great while to change the way Washington is run.
On the other hand Hillary is historic because she is a woman and married to a former president. That's it. No one is doing back flips for Hillary because of her failed attempt at universal health care.
If you were to grade Clinton and Obama solely on there actions and character, it is no contest. It is really telling that the best defense that I keep hearing for Hillary is that she is not to be blamed. That is the way things have always been done.
Truly pathetic.
March 11, 2008 4:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's campaign is historic not because he is black, but because he is the first candidate in ages that people feel that they are voting for, not just against the other guy.
You cannot really believe that is the reason his campaign is considered historic. I don't agree with what Ferrarro said either, but really, this is just wrong.
March 11, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
These silly calls for resignations on both sides need to stop. Let each side say what they will, and let the voters decide who crossed the line.
March 11, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you.
March 11, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not just this.
Ferraro lost my respect with this piece:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/25/opinion/25ferraro.html
Key quote:
"These superdelegates, we reasoned, are the party’s leaders. They are the ones who can bring together the most liberal members of our party with the most conservative and reach accommodation. They would help write the platform. They would determine if a delegate should be seated. They would help determine the rules. And having done so, they would have no excuse to walk away from the party or its presidential nominee.
It worked. In 1984 I headed the party’s platform committee. We produced the longest platform in Democratic history, a document that stated the party’s principles in broad terms that neither the most liberal nor the most conservative elected officials would denounce. It generated no fights at the convention. It was a document that no one would walk away from. We lost in 1984, big time."
Yes, Ferraro helped stop party-infighting, and cost us several election, including 1984s.
Maybe the Democratic party should stop pursuing failing strategies, and start trying new ones?
March 11, 2008 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way, what exactly has ferraro been doing since 1984. I haven't heard boo about her until the clintons' campaign. Anybody know?
March 11, 2008 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Probably enjoying her mobbed up husband's ill gotten gains. Remember when that came out after she was nominated for the VP spot.
March 11, 2008 4:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately. 1984 was an unmitigated disaster that I would rather forget, just like 1980, 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, 1972 . . . . . . I am hoping that this year will finally be different.
March 11, 2008 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I watched "The Godfather" the other night, and in the scene where Sonny explains to his father why the gang war began he says: "They hit us, we hit 'em back." Sounded like a 5-year-old. Which is what it sounds like when one side "demands" that the other side get rid of one of its own; like that will end the warfare.
Sorry, folks: I'm tired of the underlings being tossed overboard at the first sign of trouble. My suggestion is that if one sign has a problem with a soldier on the other side, then don't demand that person be ditched. Just raise a fuss about what that person did. If it sticks, the other side will have to ditch that person because they'll have become a distraction from "the message of the campaign."
That way, both campaigns can presumably return to their messages.
March 11, 2008 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ferraro: Helping dems lose elections since 1984.
Now, before everyone gets upset, I think it's GREAT that she ran as a female VP. I really, really do. And Reagan was going to be tough to beat anyway.
BUT: It's the Superdelegate rules she vouches for that cost Hart the nomination, despite actually leading in the popular vote, that cost Hart the nomination. (Hart won sixteen state primaries and caucuses to Mondale's ten).
But the Superdelegates had already decided Mondale was going to be the nominee.
March 11, 2008 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
whoops, "cost the nomination" got in there twice. Sorry.
March 11, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ferraro: Helping dems lose elections since 1984.
Definitely. I'm not sying Ferraro represents every Hillary supporter, but her statements in that article are a perfect distillation of everything I distrust about Hillary, her campaign, and the DLC. BTW I don't think that's all there is to Hillary's campaign (or her), but it's enough to give me pause.
March 11, 2008 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Geraldine Ferraro and the Clinton camp understandably needs to see the rise of Obama's candidacy as that of simply the American people's attraction to a concept based mainly on his race. For what else can it be? Right? What a convenient way for the Clinton campaign to not have to look in greater detail at its own campaign in all it's dimensions including it’s understanding of identity politics.
The reality is that Obama offers a compelling case to the American people pure and simple. This includes defying a rigid sense of identity politics, including that of race and gender. Something for which Ferraro and the Clinton camp understandably cannot fathom or maybe more accurately resentfully refuses to accept.
To that extent, Geraldine Ferraro's comments are simply a parody of the Clinton camps old school mindset.
March 11, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
On one hand, the Obama camp has pushed his "blackness" as a reason to vote for him--even criticizing Saturday Night Live for portraying him with a "non-black" actor (not even complaining that the actor was white, just not black)--so, in a way, they have to accept that he wouldn't be where he is if he weren't black. Of course, there's a lot of racial politics in this country; Latinos are less likely to vote for you if you're black, blacks are more likely, etc., so "not where you are" isn't the same thing as "not having accomplished what you have accomplished."
On the other hand, this was an incredibly insensitive remark from a woman who, by virtue of having been a VP nominee, is seen as one of the leaders of the Democratic Party. If Ferraro would reflect a moment, she should apologize.
March 11, 2008 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, could you please point out to me where the Obama camp criticized SNL for using Armison to portray him? Oh, and where he has "pushed his 'blackness' as a reason to vote for him? I'd like to see evidence of that, too. Thanks.
March 11, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ferraro helped the Clintons organize in FL? Organinzing for what...gotv? campaign literature? Wouldn't organizing be considered campaigning?
March 11, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the Clintons should definitely keep Ferraro.
Like an albatross around the neck. Better yet, have her amplify and clarify her "insights" throughout the media!
March 11, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is irrational for you folks to embrace his heritage and hold it up as a major selling point but imply it is a slur when that same heritage is brought into the discussion. I would think you would see the inconsistency you reflect. Don’t forget about the ballistic point....
March 11, 2008 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
This kind of simplistic analysis is irritating. No one has ever claimed every discussion of his heritage is a slur. It's all about intent.
Anyone can say whatever the hell they want - people can figure out what they're getting at. Like Bill's "Jesse Jackson won in 84 and 88". Yeah, it's factually correct. But everyone (not only blacks) sure got his intent.
March 11, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now THAT sentiment KenM1 is pathetic. If the treasury had a dollar for every reference of Obama to the newest JFK or RFK we would have a surplus! Not being unique, just the lastest..... Remember, the first step to recovery is for you to stop being in denial about the basic facts of your candidate's camnpaign and that his unique claim to history is that he IS the first black man to be a viable candidate for the leadership of our country. Why do you feel there is something wrong with that fact?
March 11, 2008 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
democratICnproud,
I don't know how to break this to you but neither JFK or RFK were black. Please explain it to me how relating Obama to them is playing on the fact that Barrack is African American.
Maybe, just maybe, the relation that was being made was because they all share the ability to motivate and inspire others.
You know the sad fact is that the only people that bring up race are the Clinton supports and Republicans when trying to smear Obama. The only time Obama supporters mention it is in responding to those attacks like I have done here.
Once again truely pathetic.
March 11, 2008 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
The bigot relic defends herself, OFFENDED, on Fox News:
http://thepage.time.com/2008/03/11/obama-aide-calls-ferraro-remarks-far-worse-than-power-comments/
And in the Daily Breeze:
http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_8533832
Quote:
"Any time anybody does anything that in any way pulls this campaign down and says let's address reality and the problems we're facing in this world, you're accused of being racist, so you have to shut up," Ferraro said. "Racism works in two different directions. I really think they're attacking me because I'm white. How's that?"
March 11, 2008 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
This whole thing is goofy. Let Ferraro and her dumb comment fade away. Demanding resignations and what not is going too far. It didn't make sense for Powers and it doesn't make sense in this situation either.
As for Clinton supporters: you may honestly believe that his race should be an open issue, and you may have very well thought out reasons for that, but it doesn't really matter. The issue of his race is radioactive and Clinton and anyone associated with her are very very stupid to bring it up.
Maybe in your perfect world, it should be open for discussion, but this isn't your perfect world, and you will get absolutely slammed every time you bring it up. Just a cynical political reality there.
March 11, 2008 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not true that only the Clinton's are bringing up race in this campaign. Did you miss Orlando Patterson's op-ed in today's NY Times, where he made the suggestion that the 3am ad was actually trying to trigger the fear that we can't have a black man entrusted to care for the nation's white children. The author adds that the inclusion of children of color in the ad would have taken race out of the equation. As is turns out, there is an African-American child in the ad. And we all know the ad is a Mondale copy-cat ad meant to attack only the "Commander in Chief" question. I've also seen in the blogshere a lot of weird suggestion that the 3am ad subliminally used "nig" on a child's nightgown. Obviously, it reads "good night" and is from stock footage. I also find it interesting that Obama is characterizing Hillary's suggestion that the two would make a good unity ticket (with her on the top, naturally) as just an attempt to "hoodwink" and "bamboozle" voters. Is that not racially charged?
The sad truth is that this nomination process is revealing the strong divisions we still have in this country along race and gender lines -- not to forget class. Both have cried fowl. I do believe the MSM has been overtly sexist in its coverage of Hillary and that the general public is more apt to allow that sort of nastiness. (Hence the "Iron my shirt" placards, which engendered nearly nil outrage...even though "Shine my shoes" placards would have rightly so created a national outrage.)
So it's true that Ferraro has made some weird and inappropriate comments. But the title of this piece assumes that Ferraro is a paid member of Hillary's campaign. She is not. And meanwhile, I'm sure the Obama campaign is just delighting in that goof because it gives them more ammo with which to fan the racial flames. They did it in South Carolina and it's happening again.
March 11, 2008 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I'm sure the Obama campaign is just delighting in that goof because it gives them more ammo with which to fan the racial flames."
Maybe, but I think it has a whole lot more to do with the Samantha Power situation a couple of days ago. The faster the Obama campaign can turn these things around and give Clinton no leg to stand on, the better.
Same with the memo questioning Clinton's commander in chief creds. They're both aimed at changing the course of the discussion from the past few days.
March 11, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, this place has morphed into a lefty version of Free Republic. Sad. Same brownshirt mentality at KOS. What the f*uck happened?
March 11, 2008 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't give a flying flip if Mrs. Clinton is or is not a white woman, whether she's gay or straight, what kind of car she drives, or how she likes her favorite beverage. It simply does not matter.
I am supporting Mr. Obama because he is the best candidate of the two, not because of his race or gender.
But old school politics are what the Clintons are good at, so the sad saga continues.
March 11, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know I have to admit that the Orlando Patterson piece was pretty stupid. You see, Obama people are not under some hypnotic spell. We'll call a foul no matter who does it.
The thing is that the facts have had a pretty anti-Hillary bias as of late. We are just pointing them out.
March 11, 2008 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ferraro's threat about Obama not antagonizing her...
I'm gonna show my age here a bit, but is she really as big a deal as she thinks she is? I mean, this sounds bad, I know. But I remember her running and all (I was fairly young) but that campaign was kind of a joke, no? I mean, they got bloooooown out. It always seemed kind of like Whoopi's Oscar to me--oh yeah, you won one of those didn't you?
I don't know, maybe I'm way off base here, but I never saw her as such a badass that she's kind of saying she is.
March 11, 2008 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
It feels really naive -- considering our country's history -- to say that race and gender simply don't matter in our choices. As Ferarro later tries to explain, she knows that she would not have been selected as a VP had she not been a woman. Did that make her unqualified, she continued, no it didn't. But she knows that her gender contributed to the excitement surrounding her selection. I am beyond thrilled that we have an African American and a woman to choose between. I think race, gender, and class create unique experiences in this country that contribute to one's approach to policy and governing. Both of these candidates are exceptional. I think Hillary is the stronger candidate for the job right now. That she is so qualified and is also a woman makes me so incredibly proud to vote for her. Should Obama be our nominee, that he is so qualified and also and African American will make me so proud to vote for him in November. We're kidding ourselves if we say race and gender don't matter. And I think in November we'll feel it if we don't heal these wounds...and a disenfranchised-feeling portion of Dem voters don't turn out to vote. These two candidates, in many (though not all) ways, are splitting down race, class, and gender lines. That's a reality we need to deal with and discuss without being called racist or sexist at every turn. Stop attacking Ferarro.
March 11, 2008 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
On the one hand, it's literally true that Obama would not be *exactly* where he is now if he weren't black. He might still be a candidate for president, he might in fact be the frontrunner, but I think it's certain he would not have the exact same kind of appeal he has to the exact same people. He might also not have had the life experiences that make him appealing across the board - to many whites as well as blacks. Maybe he would have become a Republican instead of a Democrat. Who knows?
What Ferraro is playing on, though, in an incredibly ugly way, is white resentment of affirmative action. It's obvious that her phrasing is designed to call up while male (and perhaps a bit of female) anger at being bilked out of the American dream by upstart negroes who are "not as good." When in fact, they're being bilked out of it mostly by other white men who happen to be obscenely wealth.
In terms of the merits, it's irrelevant to the case at hand. It's just about stirring up racial resentment. Ugly.
March 11, 2008 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lol! Walter Mondale's token woman is complaining that Obama is only where he is because of his race? Who says Americans don't "get" irony!
March 11, 2008 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink