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Poll: Obama Leading McCain By 12; Hillary Beating Him By Six

Some new numbers from the Washington Post poll lend weight to Obama's claim of electability against John McCain, finding that he's besting the Arizona Senator in a national match-up among all voters by 12 points, 52%-40%.

The poll also finds Hillary beating McCain by six, 50%-44%.

The poll suggests that McCain is besting Obama on "commander in chief" questions, finding that more voters think McCain is the stronger leader, has better experience, has a better knowledge of world affairs, and would better handle Iraq and the war on terrorism. Hillary has argued that Obama will find herself bested on these fronts in a general election with McCain.

Still, the poll's current internals don't do match-ups on the same questions with Hillary, so it's impossible to compare the two Dems' performance against McCain on them.

What's more, the poll finds that voters think that "new direction and new ideas" is slightly more important than "strength and experience," potentially putting a crimp in Hillary's claims about the general. And it finds that Obama leads McCain by substantial margins in multiple other categories, such as personality and temperament, ethical standards and vision for the future.

Numbers here.


39 Comments

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And 50% of the country has not sworn they would never vote for Obama like they have with Hillary.

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Right. Hillary was in the WH for 8 years, and has been hated by much of the country, including many independents, for 16 years. She spins that as being vetted. It's not being vetted, it's being hated by most of the people she needs to win to beat McCain.

A good Hillary/Obama analogy is GWBush/McCain.

Clearly after 8 years the turnout against GWBush would be enormous, even with independents, though he'd still win the Republican base and the Democrat would win the Dem base and Indies. Yes, McCain will also suffer from attacks through the campaign, but he inherently has more appeal with Indies and across party lines, and can also win his base.

Same goes for Hillary and Obama. Yes Hillary can win the Dem base, but she'll also turn out independents against her after 16 years of being reviled by Indies on a wide range of issues from NAFTA to Iraq flip flops and triangulation. Which results in a McCain win.

Obama (like McCain) will suffer from attacks during the campaign, but they'll largely cancel each other out. Obama has far more appeal with Indies than Hillary does, and they'll be decisive in 2008.


Obama will suffer from attacks in the GE, but there's no way his neagaitves will approach Hillary's, because her negatives are rooted in 16 years of dislike, from indies.

Whereas her

That, and the war vote, is what drew me to O's camp. Hillary's 'you'll have to pry the nomination from my cold, dead hands' approach to campaigning is what keeps me there.

But at this point national numbers are meaningless, as much as I'd like to believe them. Show me state-by-state what percentage of people think the nation is on the wrong track, and that'll give you a better indication of where the opportunities are.

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Right. Hillary's flip-flop on Iraq is Kerry all over again. People don't turn out for triangulating flip-floppers. The black vote, anti-war vote, and generally the "change" vote (on a range of issues from the environemnt to the economy, and remembering Bill Clinton's DLC policies) will stay home or vote 3rd party if Hillary is thrown the nomination by SDs. It's simply undemocratic.

McCain, war mongering nut that he is, will turnout the hawkish half of Indies and the Republican base in droves, while Hillary turns off Indies with her Kerry-esq flip-flops and triangulated positions.

I've been deriding Nader as a spoiler for 8 years. I've voted for the lesser of evils. But if the SD throw the nomination to Hillary, then he's been right all along: Dems colluding to shut out reform and maintain the status quo, resulting in worse candidates, year after year, while lobbies and corporate interests seize control of the country and run it into the ground.

I've had it. Absolutely had it with the inbreeding and incompetence of both parties.

Wall Street, special interest lobbies, the MSM, and now the SD are picking the leaders. Not the people. We're getting the same crappy deal from both parties: war, NAFTA and other lousy trade agreements, rotting infrastructure, decreased quality of life for 99% of Americans while the rich get richer, job losses, inflation, media consolidation, deregulation, environmental damage, tax sheltering, corruption, predatory practices, community declines, core inflation, two bubbles and recessions, and the drowning of a major American city due to sheer negligence in both parties.

The public is shafted while large corporations are making blockbuster profits and moving overseas.

This is not democracy. It's plutocracy. I've absolutely had it. If the next candidate in this country doesn't offer some real reform, then I'm no longer disparaging people who vote for Nader or riot in the streets. Frankly, I'm starting to sympathize with them.

It's odd that we seem to be getting tremendously conflicting results in these surveys. Rasmussen daily tracking polls shows McCain leading Obama and Hillary (although Hillary is stronger than Obama). Yet this poll suggests a different result. Personally, I think there are 2 sets of numbers that the pollsters are working with.

Yawn. This poll was taken Feb 28-Mar 2. I want to see some taken after March 4th.

Yeah, this is without an energized Republican base flocking to the polls in droves to defeat Hillary, with Rush and Hannity cracking the whips.

And it is just one poll. From the state polls there is every reason to say that Hillary doesn't stand a chance. Just look at the BLUE states she can't come close to winning:

http://thepersonalispolitical.tumblr.com/post/26659785

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Obama has to reframe the Iraq issue on cost. He's got to hit the $3 trillion war. He's got to do more to tie economic concerns to the enormous waste of this war - waste of money, waste of lives, waste of futures...

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Paul Krugman has a different point of view.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

Obama is going to crush McCain, but them up in a debate and watch the MSM say Nixon/Kennedy about 10,000 times.

He's gonna crush McCain? Well, so far the POWERFUL, INEVITABLE nominee can't put away Hillary Clinton in a large state with a diverse population. Sorry, but his ability to rack up delegates in caucuses is going to do him no good.

Obama will lose blue collar swing voters and independents in droves. And his inability to connect with Latinos at all - a key constituency - is bad news for Democrats if he is the nominee.

And I'm sick to death of hearing people whine: Hillary won Ohio and Texas because of "dirty, nasty" tactics! Grow up. When issues of national security are raised, Obama better have a better response than yelling "fear mongering." And he needs something better than trying to bash McCain for his vote on the Iraq war. McCain will just say "that's in the past." The general election will be about national security and what the Hell we do with Iraq going forward, and the economy.

Absolutely shocking. Krugman? Anti-Obama. Who woulda ever thunk it.

This poll 2/28/08-3/02/08, is old. Everything has changed since then.

McCain will absolutely beat HRC. Just throw in the towel if she is the candidate, too much baggage, men tend to really dislike her, not due to being a woman, but HER!

Lots of stories floating around about Bill's sexual escapades since 2000. Add to that mix the donors and the financial scandals and all the baggage of the Clintons. If she gets the nomination, this is what it will be. Non-stop keep Bill out of the White House nonsense. Look for Monica to make the rounds on 20/20 and The View and wherever else.

One thing to think about in terms of Hillary's success this past week is what a good job they've been doing keeping Bill on the back burner. The Republicans would put him front and center in every ad, in every story, they will talk about him nonstop until. Keep your daughters away from the White House!

Obama needs to remind people of the soap opera that will be a Clinton candidacy and presidency.

If he doesn't, independents and even some Democrats will move to McCain. He will win over Clinton. Obviously the right-wing machine will ramp up against Obama, but there won't be that visceral, emotional reaction and recognition of what the politics of the 90's were like.

Obama and his supporters do need to take OH and TX as a moment to take a harder, more sober approach. These polls (and open primaries) do show good evidence that more Americans beyond Democratic loyalists are open to voting for Obama than for Hillary. This will be especially important when running against McCain, who could draw the independents and moderates. It should also be noted that Dukakis beat Gore for the Democratic nomination in 1988 by winning all of the 'important' states that Hillary has won against Obama (FL, CA, NJ, OH, TX) then went on to lose all of them to Bush in the general.

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Well said.

Spin this one away, Clintoncultists.

will do. THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!

Head-to-head national polls for Hillary vs. McCain and Obama vs. McCain are meaningless right now. Lee Atwater, the father of republican attack politics, always focused on "framing" the opponent. Hillary Clinton has been so demonized by republicans over the last 16 years, she's unframeable. People's minds are already made up about the Hillary "persona." Therefore, a contest between Hillary and McCain will focus on the policy differences. However, the Obama "persona" for most voters is a blank page, albeit a positive blank page at this point. However, it will take the republican 527s about a month to frame this guy as an inexperienced, ultra liberal, pretty boy, empty suit. If Obama's performance over that last couple of weeks is any indication of how well he'll stand up under the onslaught of republican 527s -- the guy's toast.

Please note I say national polls. I do, however, believe that head-to-head state polls can provide a more valid view of what is likely to occur in the general election. These disaggregated views can be compared to what has occurred in states in general elections over the past 40 years or so to provide a reality check on today's results. It's here that the Obama's crossover, red state appeal story begins to breakdown. In all the head-to-head state polls for the red states won by W. in 2004 that I've seen recently, McCain beats both Hillary and Obama.

The larger problem for Obama is that his blue state appeal appears to be slipping, if he ever really had any blue state appeal vs. Hillary. No democratic candidate has ever won the nomination by losing CA, NY, NJ, MA, OH, and TX, and arguably, Obama lost and will likely lose MI and FL again if there are re-vote primaries held.

David Axlerod crafted a brilliant strategy to keep this guy in the game. He's winning the only possible way he could -- by cherry picking and running up big wins in uncontested red states that he'll never win in the general election. However, the superdelgates, most of whom are elected officials, clearly understand that winning in caucuses in ID, UT, ND, AK, NE, and deep south red state primaries where African Americans are 1/3 or more of the democratic vote, ain't like winning head-to-head primaries in CA, NY, NJ, MA, OH, TX, MI, and FL. If Hillary goes on to win IN, KY, and PA, Obama’s lead in pledged delegates will not matter. To nominate Obama, the democrats effectively surrender the presidency to the republicans in 2008.

Before I get a bunch of responses about this being undemocratic, just take a look at the electoral college process in this country – if the presidency of the USA were decided based on who won the most votes, Al Gore would have been the 43rd president of the USA. Get over it.


Well, you obviously havent seen the polls where:

Obama wins CO huge, Hillary loses big
Obama wins NH huge, Hillary win barely wins (by 2, I think)
Obama ties WA, Hillary loses by 8
Obama and Hillary win NY, but Obama wins by more (in her homestate too!)
Obama beacts McCain by 12 in NV, Hillary loses by Obama barely wins Oregon, Clinton loses by 10
Obama and Hillary win huge in CA, Obama by a bit more
Obama and Hillary win by the same 7 points in NJ
Obama and Hillary win by the same 2 points in PA
Obama wins by 1 in OH, Hillary loses by 3.
Obama wins big in MI, Hillary ties

Need I go on? Of course, it is early in the game, and these don't mean too much, and there are a couple states (MA, FL) that seem to trend towards Hillary. However, the only thing we have to show who will do better in the GE are these polls, and they are all trending very heavily in Obama's favor. Also, note that even in states that Hillary has won (especially huge differences in NH and NV) Obama does better.

Also, does anyone really think any Dem has any chance of losing CA or NY? That's about as likely as losing IL in my opinion.

Also, you seem to forget states such as MO, MN, WI, VA states Obama could win easier than Hillary.

I wouldn't calling it cherry-picking. I would call contesting EVERY election. Seems the one "cherry-picking" would be Senator Clinton. What's her latest? See you in Pennsylvania? Problem is there are TWO contest in the next 7 days. And all that cherry-picking has her in a whole.

And frankly, if your opponent knows that you are going to cede SUBSTANTIALLY all of the country and focus on turning one or two states, then you have already lost the game.

50-State Strategy. It makes a difference.

I have to keep reminding myself that as a Virginian, I'm second-class to Frau Clinton.

Question:

Where is their Berlin bunker, anyway?

buddhistfist13,
Interesting -- where are you finding your poll data? You're right, I've not seen many of these. I'd need to know the dates when the polls were taken before I could comment. I do note that you've listed mostly blue states -- what about all those red states in which Obama ran up big wins? How's he doing against McCain in ID, UT, ND, AK, NE, AL, GA, SC, LA, KS?

An interesting poll in OH -- it has Obama beating McCain by 1 in a state that he just lost to Hillary by 10????

They're all in the poll tracker. Most of them seem to be from mid-late Feb (looking at it now, theres a brand new one from Washington, showing both losing to McCain, Obama by 1, Hillary by 7). A lot are from SUSA, which has been very good this season.

I dont know about Ohio, I thought that was strange too. My best guess would that it's a combination of 2 things:

Repubs who dislike McCain will be more likely to vote for him against Hillary than Obama

Obama supporters probably aren't as favorable to Hillary supporters as her's are to his. Obama wins new voters, people who didn't really care about politics until he came in. Some of these voters will most likely vote 3rd party/not vote when it comes to the GE if Hillary is the nominee (and I will be one of them if she wins the nomination despite having fewer pledged delegates).

Also, it is true that many of those states are blue states, although there are some purple (his huge win in Colorado and Nevada jumps out) and Hillary loses some states ant Democrat should pick up (WA, tied in NH). Like I said, this isn't definitive as it is so early in the season. But Obama has shown he can start campaigning in a state and generate numbers (remember, though he lost Ohio and Texas, he didn't lose by nearly as much as polls 2 weeks earlier showed), and if he comes into the states with better numbers against McCain than Clinton...

I'll concede the point about Red states, I don't think he has much chance in most of those. (maybe Kansas, or one of the Southern states w/ huge black turn out). But there's also MN, which is usually close in the GE and Obama won huge, WI, which I think has had a difference of under 1 percent in the last two elections and Obama won huge, and VA, a normally red state that has been looking bluer that Obama won huge.

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It would be nice to get a poll that reflects the post-Ohio realities of the campaign.

Somehow I just doubt that things are so rosy for Obama after NAFTA-Gate and the Ohio and Texas loss.

Thing is, Obama won Texas, thanks to the Caucus.

Probably all those Repubs voting for Hillary in the general, but couldn't stomach actually caucusing for her...

Then again, Texas doesn't matter cause it's RED, right?

Thanks for that, Greg.

But shouldn't *herself* be *himself* in the following sentence:

"Hillary has argued that Obama will find herself bested on these fronts in a general election with McCain."

JESUS CHRIST WAS A HARD CORE LIBERAL

I am not a religious person, but I have read all 4 gospels. Although Jesus supposedly never wrote a book himself, the accounts of what he had to say are remarkably similar. Here is what he did not say. He did not say that if you do not believe that I died for your sins you will burn in hell fire for all eternity. He did not say that the only correct religion in the eyes of God was Christianity, he himself being a Jew.

Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve ever met a Jew who believes that his path is the only true way. Maybe that is where Jesus got his universal acceptance of all people from. In fact, nowhere in the gospels does he say that we should make laws against gay people or anyone else that makes us uncomfortable. I seem to recall him instead saying something like, “Judge not that you not be judged” and “Whoever is without sin cast the first stone”.

Yes, as far as I can tell, his message was quite simple. He promoted brotherly love, the realization that whatever you do to anyone you are doing to yourself and to God. Everyone is God’s child, and if you judge or harm any of them, you are doing this to God.

Now, given Christ’s temper when it came to showing up at temples and kicking over the table, I get the impression that Jesus the Christ was a man of passion and principals. I am pretty sure that if he were living today, and turned on Fox News, and saw O’Reilly spewing his hatred and Ann Coulter calling John Edwards a “faggot” that he would probably get up and kick the TV in. What would probably really piss him off are all these televangelists telling us to who hate in his name. Yes, Jerry Falwell’s “Moral Majority” would have been an organization he would have distanced himself from. I also think that whole kicking things over bit he would probably do in the lobby of Pat Robertson’s studios for “The 700 Club”.

Jesus was a hardcore dude. He lived by his principals and constantly told his followers to be tolerant, feed the poor and love each person as you would love yourself. What this nation needs now is a leader with a streak of those qualities in him.

I recently watched a speech on YouTube over and over a few time times. It was given by a man who claims to be a devout Christian himself. This man is constantly being accused of being a Muslim because of his race and his funny name. But apparently he attends this place called “Trinity Church of Christ” and even wrote about it in a book. This man is also, by the way, is running for the Presidency of the United States.

So in this speech, this man said something that at first I wasn’t sure if I agreed with. He said, “I am my brother’s keeper. If my neighbor is suffering, I am suffering. If my neighbor is sick or living I poverty, then I too am sick and living in poverty.”

I thought about Jesus Christ and wondered where he would stand on that. What would he have to say. Would he be “Conservative”? Would he oppose the killing of over 1 million people in Iraq, half of them children? Would he be concerned about the poverty and suffering of other people but then say, “Hey, keep your hands off of my money. That’s their problem. My money is mine. Mine!” Would Jesus say, “I know McCain wants to lead this country into more wars, but I must vote for him because saving money on my taxes is more frankly more important than innocent human lives?” Would Jesus be a conservative?

I say he’d be a bleeding heart Liberal. Yes, that “L” word that a.m. talk radio has trained us all to despise and to think of as wimpy and lame and frankly just uncool.

Somehow I think that the guy who coined the phrase, “Love your neighbor as yourself” would not be able to get behind the Iraq war or the next war that McCain can’t wait to get started. I don’t think he’d like the government or being taxed, but I think he’d put caring for others over caring for his own wad of cash. It seems to me that that was the cornerstone of his teachings. It also seems to me that Barack Obama echoes this in every speech he gives and every piece of legislation he either promotes or votes against.

Would Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly and Ann Coulter have been Jesus’ disciples? I don’t think they’d have the stomach for it. And what about George W. Bush, the man responsible for the deaths of 1.1 million Iraqis, half of them innocent children? Jesus would certainly accept him unconditionally, but old Dubya wouldn’t have the time or the tolerance for such a bleeding heart liberal. It would get in the way of all his plans.

So when I was watching all of these speeches on YouTube and listening to Barack Obama, I was really struck, seriously it really touched my heart when he said, “There is not a conservative America and a Liberal America. There is not a black America and a White America. There is not a Gay America and a Straight America. There is the United States of America”. I was practically moved to tears. He didn’t have to remind the audience, by the way, that he was giving them any straight talk. He just spoke from his heart.

Here is a man who expects more of us than we expect of ourselves. He seeks to unify instead of divide. He seeks to heal instead of to kill. He represents everything it means to be an American and is, by far, the most “Christ-like” candidate running for President today.

Barack has never gone for the cheap shot. He always takes the high road. Whatever he lacks in experience, like JFK or Roosevelt, he makes up for it in his idealism, in his belief in the goodness of human nature and in his ability unite and inspire. I’m pretty sure that if Jesus Christ were alive in November of this year, he would cast his vote for his committed disciple, for the one who most walks the talk and lives by the values of acceptance and brotherly love. There is no doubt about it, Jesus Christ would vote for Barack Obama.

- Eric Allen Bell

www.WeCanStopMcCain.org

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Woooo!!! I'm a strong Obama supporter, but I've gotta say, you're drinking more than your share of the Kool-Aid. Lay off the juice, Bruce--you're starting to sound a little scary.

If this story gets a big headline, shouldn't the brand new Survey USA poll (showing Hillary performing slightly better against McCain than Obama) at least be mentioned?

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If you'd like to see it mentioned, wouldn't it be a good idea to post a link? Just a suggestion...

Thanks for the tip, pal.

You can find it on the TPM Campaign Wire, but here is the URL.

[link]http://www.surveyusa.com/index.php/2008/03/05/1st-nationwide-clinton-vs-mccain-poll-after-clinton-victories-in-oh-and-tx/[/link]

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Greg: If the numbers were reversed, would you have taken the time to point out that one candidate's lead is statistically insignificant, since it falls within the polls margin of error?

I suspect you would have.

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"Poll: Obama Leading McCain By 12; Hillary Beating Him By Six"

Let's examine the implication in this headline:

Obama is in the lead, but Hillary is beating McCain. Was the wording of this headline intentional, Greg, or just a little unintended slip?

The Rovian, doublespeak nature of the Hillary camp's talking points these days is truly astounding. To actual believe them requires either extreme idiocy or appalling dishonesty.

There is a candidate who was trumpeted in this race as inevitable and has not been able to close the deal against an upstart threat. Her name is Hillary Rodham Clinton. The whole "why can't inevitable, powerful Barack Obama put away the scrappy underdog Clinton?" meme is pathetically laughable. Classic Rovian projection.

Further, the idea that Obama can't win independents has been clearly disproved over and over again. Its one of his key strengths. I remember much hand-wringing from Clintonistas about how "unfair" it was that Obama was winning these open primaries with cross-over votes from Republicans and Indies, saying only true Democrats should have a say. I guess that is out the window now that Her Majesty has won a couple of open primaries.

As far as the war issue goes, nice try, but there's no there there either. McCain may simply say "that's in the past," but people will not buy it. And I'm sure the candidate who, just like John Kerry, was "for the war before she was against it" will get much more traction in the general.

That comment was meant to be linked to the one by "Independent Ben" upthread....

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