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Poll: Hillary Up By 18 Points In Pennsylvania Primary

A new poll from Republican firm Strategic Vision gives Hillary Clinton an overwhelming lead of 56%-38% for the Pennsylvania primary, consistent with other polls showing her way ahead. A lot could change in the next six weeks, of course, but she definitely starts out with the upper hand.

Interestingly, the poll also indicates that Barack Obama could potentially be the more electable candidate here, though it's not a statistically significant difference. She loses to John McCain 48%-42%, while he loses by a closer 47%-44%.


Comments (93)

Does anyone honestly believe either Clinton or Obama will lose Pennsylvania in the general? The IDEA of McCain is going run up against the REALITY of pro-Bush orthodoxy.

Closed primary.

Anything less than a 15-18 point victory by Clinton should be spun as a loss for Hillary.

If she wins by 1 percent she will treat it as a big comeback.

I'm sure she sees the loss in Iraq as a 'WIN' for America.

She would never do that! Well except for texas, but that's different. Everyone knows that Texas isn't an important state.

:( I can only hope the supper delegates start moving to Obama and end this.

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Given the use of surrogates in this campaign, can someone explain to me why Obama can't get his mother out on the campaign trail in Pennsylvania to address the older white woman demographic?

ah, if only. she passed away in 1995.

Ferraro is scary enough out there talking non-sense and looking a little skeletal. The lady you speak of would provide less of the former and more of the latter.

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I think what Ferraro meant to say was....

If Obama was not black but was, say, a white man who had the EXACT same experience with the EXACT same history of very careful votes (present etc.), no strong legislative accomplishments in Illinois Legislature or US Senate who started running for President ONE year into his US Senate career, would he have won all those caucuses and primaries in those same states? Would he have gotten the overwhelming support he has gotten from the black community or any combination of communities that puts him 110 pledged delegates ahead of Clinton?

I believe the answer would be NO.

Oh come on. John Edwards had only one term in the senate (and it wasn't very distinguished) and Hillary had only one term and two years, and her carrier wasn't very distinguished either.

Obama, Clinton, and Edwards all have about the same Senate Experience, and Obama actually has more legislative experience, having been in the state senate.

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You must not have read my entire post. I talked about the "safe" course Obama took both in the State Legislature and the US Senate so he wouldn't have to defend his votes when he ran for the Presidency.

Hillary actually did legislate for her constituency.

Read this article in the New York Times. Very Illuminating.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/us/politics/09obama.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&pagewanted=3&adxnnlx=1205413526-7LqGdD8uAck4M9ohrX7SgA

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I don't think you have followed her career and are "shooting from the hip" if you can say it is not distinguished.

Post 9/11 John Warner, a Republican, gave a press conference complimenting Hillary on her legislation. This is on the record. Google it!

Hillary is by reputation and widely acknowledged to be one of the hardest working Senators. This is agreed to by both Republicans and Democrats.

Again, read the NYT article. There is a HUGE difference between Hillary's work ethic and Obama's.

FerraroGate might actually erase this lead, or at least cut into it. I don't know much about Penn, so I'm not sure how much damage this will do to her campaign. Either way, they'll get to see Obama first hand and his legendary ground game will likely make the state competitive. She had leads like this a couple of weeks before Texas and Ohio, and he overcame her small gains the week after.

Not looking good for Hillary.

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I don't think you have followed her career if you can say it is not distinguished.

Post 9/11 John Warner, a Republican, gave a press conference complimenting her on her legislation. This is on the record. Google it!

THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!!!! For -

oh wait...nevermind.

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Most of PA is conservative. The reason PA usually goes to the Democrat in November is largely because of Philly. If they are polling people from throughout the state in equal proportions, McCain should come out ahead. If they polled more from Philly than other parts both Hillary and Obama would be ahead.

Huh? Obama does better than Clinton against McCain in the oh-so-important state?

So much for Clinton's "electability" trump card.

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Do you really need to be reminded that, in TX, Obama swung the polls 20 points in two weeks -- going from -15 points at T minus three weeks to +6 points at T minus one week?

Also worth remembering that, in two PA polls the week before TX/OH, Quinnipiac had Obama at -6 points and Rasmussen had him at -4 points.

Once Obama gets on the ground, he moves the polls very quickly. Surely you've learned that much, by now.

There can be no comeback no matter what for Hillary. She can only win dirty (only superdels, with no other math advantage), not to say that she won't treat it as one.

I'm confident that gap will close, thanks to Hillary's ineptitude as a campaigner.

Storm,

The Obama and media lynching of Ferraro, while payback for Obama's lost staff this past week or so, is going to backlash. First, among white women voters, especially those who were old enough to vote in 1984, and second, by traditional Democratic and those fabled Reagan Democrats that are not going to take lightly to this serious affront to a historic Democratic figure. Yes, once the dust settles, I think Obama will and should rue the day he, the Obama Cult, and the media pulled this latest racist stunt.

I'm sure it won't affect his standing in the Black community, heck he already polls 90% like in some 3rd world dictatorship, but take note of exit polls and others showing the increasing polarization of the White vote. With the 90% Black vote only accounting for maybe 13% of the overall general election vote, Obama cannot win in a racially polarized election.

Yes, finally, as Ferraro suggested Tuesday, Obama owes her an a apology. If for no other reason, for his disrepect to her.

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Weaver. I'm surprised that when I looked up the word fatuous in the dictionary, your name and picture weren't next to it. Obama owes who an apology? She's the one who slurred him! He never called her a racist--but I do.

What slur? That he got a pass on serious inspection and expectation because he was Black? It is an honest conclusion. If he were White or a Woman, he would have been laughed out of the campaign. It's a reality, not a slur.

Wow. You seriously think the only reason barack obama won Iowa and the numerous other states is because he is black? Really? So it's not bothersome at all if I say the only reason Hillary is in the race is because she is a women and married to Bill? That doesn't effect you at all? Is that the reason you like her, that she is a women and married to Bill? Lame.

Why do you and Josh and all the Ferraro critics insist on adding the word "only" to what Ferraro said?
It is incredibly dishonest of you and to all but the ignoranti seriously blunts your criticism.
I will answer my question for you:
Because if we consider what Ferraro actually said then the charges of racism become baseless and stupid.
It is telling that Ferraro included herself in her criticism of the public response to Obama, that her being female was an advantage to herself just as being black has been an advantage to Obama. And of course these things have also been disadvantageous.
He actual statement is so obviously true that the Obama camp's insistence on inserting that "only" is clear evidence of either their irrationality or manipulation. Take your choice.

None of this is to say that Ferraro was not quite stupid for saying what she said. She should have known that critics would seize upon the very worst possible interpretation. But then she has a history of speaking her mind in a not very politic manner.
As Olbermann said in his denunciation of HRC last night what mattered were not the words but the interpretation put upon them. Surely he is correct in this.
He was wrong in his insistence that everyone must oh so carefully avoid the truth because some partisans will make the worst of it all. By his lights spin becomes the "truth" in a way that obviates the need for factuals. Is that really the politics we want to enforce? Haven't we had enough of that?
Toss in the tit for tat aspect because of Powers and none can justly blame Obama's going for the jugular. However insane the contest "rules" it is important that they apply across the board.

I only wish that we played using less childish rules.

Wow. Just wow.

I think you just convinced anyone reading this who to vote for.

Seriously, dude. You should probably quit while you're...behind.

"lynching"
You're too much.

When I read things like this, I have to wonder if I am seeing the same world as the commenter. Ferraro engages in race-baiting, then accuses the Obama camp of racism when she's called on it. Hillary refuses to apologize or reject the statement until it makes major news (even though she has gotten all uppity over much less toxic comments from Obama supporters). Yet, its Obama's camp that is in the wrong.

Did anyone see the new south park tonight? Eric infected Kyle with HIV. Kyle told on him. Both boys were told to apologize to the other. Upon doing so, everything was supposed to be OK, but Kyle still, obviously, had HIV, so he was unsatisfied. Upon seeing this, Eric points out that Kyle wasn't really sorry for being a tattle-tale.

Same thing here. Injecting race is the most toxic thing that could be done. But Ferraro didn't simply inject it, she gave the media a transfusion. She went on every show that would take her to make sure that everyone with a TV would see it. And Hillary stood by, apparently approvingly until there was really no other option but to state disapproval. And Barack's response?

http://video.aol.com/video/video-category/2085664

Indeed.. so awful. Yes, Obama is totally hung up on the issue and is calling Ferraro a racist. WTF world do you people live in?

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You're off base. Presidents do not openly engage in the type of stuff HRC and her people have. She didn't even learn from GWB. (Does she learn from anything?) He kept the dirt away from him. Hill has embraced it. Ferraro is attached to her. Good luck in the general.

But, I know, you don't need African Americans (what Democrat has, really?), or the 48% per cent of the people who think Hillary is a liar, or people who are concerned about Bill's potential influence peddling, or people who don't want a co-presidency, or people who actually want to get out of Iraq, or the high-income people who, as Bill has scolded us, "don't need a president." I admit, we're all "reverse-racists" and, to boot, sexists.

Good luck with winning the electoral college on the backs of white Dems who are 65 and older and who want the federal government to "go after the wages" of their children and grandchildren to pay for the "fundamental Democratic principle" of mandatory univeral healthcare and who believe that Hillary's foreign policy experience "trumps" (as Howard Wolfson says) John McCain's. Good luck.

I'm honestly curious why you support Hillary? It's been a while since I've read some good pro Hillary comments and I'd like to read some. It'd at least make me feel better about switching to the Democratic party this year.

Lynching?

Geraldine lynched herself. She made the comments then flipped out all over the networks complaining about the fact people complained about it. It's idiotic to blame Obama for Ferraro's media freakout session.

One Obama person said she should resign, and Ferraro went ballistic, and accuse the Obama campaign of calling her a racist, which was false.

"Yes, finally, as Ferraro suggested Tuesday, Obama owes her an a apology. If for no other reason, for his disrepect to her."

Have you lost your fucking mind? Ferraro isn't owed an apology from anyone, her playing the victim is rather giggle-worthy.

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My family has Pennsylvania roots and influences but now reside in California. I visited them this past weekend. My 82 year old dyed-in-the-wool democratic mom wants Hillary and won't vote for Barack. My 57 year old union-or-die brother wants Hillary and is considering voting for McCain.

What's the reasoning that they give? Please tell me it isn't "because he has attacked hillary". I'm getting really tired of that.

Well now that I've heard about your family I guess I'll change my vote. I have some family in PA too. They listen to Rush and collect guns. Guess I'll take that up too.

GO HILLARY..... Polls are looking good for you in all the states that are left to vote....keep up the good work.... if you are a hillary supporter, keep donating and making those calls:)

"polls are looking good for you in all the states that are left to vote"???

another deluded troll. i hope you're all so very proud of your efforts to destroy the Dem party and our best chance in a generation to shift the dialogue in this country. the math isn't there for her. when will you admit it?

*rolls eyes* blog spam

matt...

thank you for explaining why hillary and her surrogates would overtly inject the issue of race into this campaign. and i quote: "With the 90% Black vote only accounting for maybe 13% of the overall general election vote, Obama cannot win in a racially polarized election."

sadly, your head's so deep in the sand you've convinced yourself...er, bought hook, line, and sinker into hillary's divisive crap...that you think obama owes someone an apology.

jesus man, you're a perfect example of why we should be done with the baby boomers. you've all had your chance, and boy did you manage to f&ck it all up.

I've always considered myself pretty progressive and often on the liberal and left side of the political spectrum. Some issues, admittedly, conservative. I'm sorry but I find Obama a lightweight messenger and someone who will, if nominated, lead the Democratic party into failure this fall. I liked Edward's populist message but found him inauthentic. Clinton has some baggage, yes, but she's a serious, do what it takes winner. A survivor. Anything less will result in failure against the Republicans.

Let me ask you this as I think I recall you and definitely others writing how Clinton was too much a fighter, even using Republican and Rovian tactics, while you likened Obama taking the high road. Do you think presidential politics is some high school election or a 'let's all get along nicely and pick the best person' process? Clinton has ran circles around Obama in the campaign, often leaving him on the defensive, such as the past week where he can't fire his offending staff fast enough. Clinton is a consumate politican, plus she also starts and ends as a Democrat. I think this is why the superdelegates are in a real jam as they see her as a survivor and winner against the Republicans. Regarding Obama, forget the polls for a moment, how do you think he fairs politically against McCain and the Republicans in campaigning? Personally, short of playing the race card at further risk of alienating the voters and being labeled as an angry whinner, I do not see him having the wherewithall to stand toe-to-toe and dish out what it takes to win. He hasn't so far, what makes you think he can suddenly do so in the fall were he to become the nominee?

Clinton has ran circles around Obama in the campaign
That explains why she has more delegates than he does.
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Fyi -- "whiner" has only one "n".

Also, this is a sincere question. When has Hillary ever won anything? I hear a lot about her being a "fighter." But, far as I can tell, she got savaged by the GOP during Bill's term. He left office with a stratospheric approval rating. Yet, she left with a 50% per cent disapproval rating. How is that "winning"? I mean, I know she was still alive, but that seems a pretty low bar. So, I know she picks fights. The thing I can't see is where she actually wins any of them.

Also seems strange to me that this "fighter" who allegedly "delivers" and who is the wife of the most popular Dem prez in a long time is losing the primaries. Apart from the regular complaints of unfairness, if she is a "winner" why isn't she winning on her home turf? And, taking the complaints into account, why is she unable to win even if the media, or the GOP, or whoever, is against her?

Yeah - if Bill and Hill were so highly regarded by everyone, why is she having such a hard time fighting off a 'lightweight'. What a foolish and to me - insulting statement. As if some of us who support him couldn't possibly be over 18 years old or have studied and observed the political landscape for more than 35 years.

Got news for ya pal - you obviously weren't listening to him a year or so ago when the complaint leveled against him most often was being too wonkish when he spoke to the large crowds he was attracting.

I remember with some angst the 90's perfectly well. And while i would trade those anyday for GWB's moronic behaviors, I always felt we were cheated by stupid mistakes by the Clintons from reaching even greater heights.

Judging from there pathetic behaviors that scream entitlement now, I doubt another round will be any better - if not much worse.

So the only reason you support Hillary is because she is a "fighter"? Really? I'm an independent and sick of this shit. I don't want a fighter, I want someone to fix some of the problems we have. I want someone that will energize people to solve problems. You want to get health care through? It isn't going to take a fighter, it's going to take someone that will get house and senators elected in Nov. Obama seems better equipt at that. 3 weeks ago both Obama and Hillary polled better than McCain, now McCain is in the lead, this is tearing down both candidates. Obama is going to win, lets dispense with the show and start focusing on winning in Nov.

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Matthew, I think you are dizzy and confused by all those circles Hillary is "ranning" around Obama. There is hardly a thing you've said that isn't ass-backwards. Since you have so much spare time to write ignorant blog posts, how about taking some time off to do a little research: what percentage of black votes have democratic candidates from Bill Clinton to Al Gore and John Kerry received in primaries with large African-American constituencies? Consistently these numbers have been in the 80s and as high as 90. Are you paying so little attention to notice that the Clinton campaign's strategy has become to write off the black vote and gain white votes by dividing, through surrogates like Bill, Ferraro and others? Do you think the Clintons are some amateur-hour, high school campaign? Obama has taken on the most formidable political machine the democratic party has seen in many years, an enormously challenging and complex task, and he has beaten it. Deal with it.

It never ceases to amaze me as to how unprincipled and how blind to the greedy power grabbing of the Hillary camp her supporters are.

Oh - never mind changing the rules mid-stream. Heck that's the Clinmerican way what would I expect?

I mean really, it wasn't until January 25th and January 26th that she and her campaign began suggesting that the Floridians were being screwed. Let me make something emphatically clear. Their ELECTED representatives voted 118-0 in the House and 37-2 in their Senate to move their voting date, already knowing what the date requirements were.

The DNC Rules Committee met on August 25, 2007 and ruled that Florida would have 30 days to move its primary date at least 7 days later than the current date of January 29, or else lose all of its delegates in the Democratic primary. Florida officials said they may challenge the ruling on legal grounds and protest the 2008 convention

Did you notice the word 'Committee' next to 'DNC Rules'? Yes - a collection of people, not all from one state. It wasn't just Howard Dean.

So then Florida once again told the DNC to take a hike. How arrogant. But hey you individual voters that think YOU are being punished for the deeds of others.

No - you are being punished for electing the jerks in the first place. In case you haven't noticed yet - this is a republic, not a strict democracy. You elected those people to make decisions for you. Your remedy is to vote them out next time - not shafting 48 other states and the party as a whole.

It isn't about being pro-Obama, or anti-Hillary, It is about calling out people who want to scream unfair at every little thing one side does - while trying to utterly destroy the credibility of one of the Party's most crucial entities.

Its about Truth and Integrity - people.

It isn't about race, or gender - it is about stopping the subversion of the true American Ideal by people who only think they are Republicans, not really understanding themselves what the classic Republican was all about.

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Wait, but I thought winning the Dem primary means you win the general too??

How can it be that Obama does better against McCain in this poll?

Surely the Clinton campaign wouldn't try to mislead us...

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Stephen Colbert explained this the other night. It is well known that the winner of a state's primary always wins that state in the general. Thus, Hillary won the Texas primary, and John McCain won the Texas primary, so they are both guaranteed to win Texas in the general election.

It's very truthy!

Hey Matrt, Obama didn't do so bad with the white democrats, because when you back out the GOP voters (1 of every 4 votes HC received was a GOP vote instigated by Rush Limbaugh) -- no if 3 of 4 white voters voted for her, and 1 of those 4 were GOP, then she adn Obama roughly split the white democratic vote evenly. That's a fact. And there's a reason why Rush wants his minions to crossover and vote for HC -- let's hope people like you figure it out before it's too late.

As a separate issue, I find it troubling that despite the national media over the past few months, she still has that big of a lead. While I trust that Obama will cut this down to less than 10 in the next few weeks, I doubt he'll win the state outright. It shouldn't matter - he's ahead far enough that Clinton can't win the nomination outright.


That said, I wonder if McClinton has figured that her recent tactic of not apologizing outright for Ferraro's statements is an indication that she feels that she can win simply by relying on the female vote and the white male vote. It may be enough. I'm troubled by this pattern in general.

I think it is time Obama's endorsers, like the Kennedys, go out again to rally for him. Where did they go after that first few appearances!??

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After their abysmal results, TO GROUND, I hope.

Yes, and who did Obama win against? His first campaigned ended unopposed. His U.S. Senate campaign was against Alan Keyes!!! No, Obama has never been tested. Clinton at least ran against Rick Lazio, though he did blow it big time.

So Clinton is better because...?

Who did he win against? Hillary Clinton.

Have you ever considered that an argument that is based on the electoral prowess of Rick Lazio may not be an argument you want to make in a pubic forum?

And just so you know, Hillary is no electoral titan. In each election she under performed as compared to other Democrats on the ticket in New York.

2000 Election

Gore 60, Bush 35
Clinton 55, Lazio 43

2004 Election

Spitzer 69, Faso 29
Clinton 67, Spencer 31

She's faced patsies both times and did worse than Gore and Spitzer against them.

That's an interesting stat, thanks for the info. You would think that if anything it would be the flip of the numbers based on the bozos she ran against. Fascinating.

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I think it is time for Obama supporters to stop living in their fairy tale little world and start facing reality. Take a deep breath and look around you. Obama is not ready but he maybe in 4 to 8 years, but he has a lot of life and living and learning to do. Pa. is a closed primary if this would have been the case earlier we would not be talking about Obama anymore. Obama is not the Democrats choise look carefully at all of the exit polls. So the question becomes whose choice is he? Understandibly he has received a majoirty of black votes and he has lost all of the white votes in all states that count. It is over. From now on Pa. is an indication of things to come. Think about it. The alernative is John McCain. Do not dismiss this scenario. I can clearly see McCain winning Ca., Pa., NJ, Fl. and you know McCain is going to win all of those insignificant red states that Obama won by such big numbers. Wake up Obama has six weeks of vetting ahead of him, no more insignificant little victories left. The alternative is John McCain. Is that what you want? I have a feeling that you will wake up. Why am I for Hillary? Because I want a fighter. I'm sick and tired of milk toasts.

Obviously you really miss the point, don't you? You seem to underestimate the power of unity and the new faces Obama is bringing and likely will bring in even greater numbers to the GE.

I'm about 50 right now myself, and I have followed politics very closely for over 35 years. Obama winning the nomination will produce a tsunami of support unlike any we have seen for years.

Further, if someone can keep those newer voters engaged in the process then we might have more people expressing their demands to members of the legislative branch. Hillary shows little promise of maintaining that level of excitement - for even TWO days past her election as president. Why? Because it will look so much like the same old crap again.

This election is about my kids and grandkids future. Electing a woman who will pull every dirty trick, finesse the parsing of every single word she speaks is not exactly inspiring enough to keep continued engagement in the politics of this country seem like a worthwhile exercise to most younger people.

We have NO guarantee that Obama will be as true to the ideals many of us would like as we hope he will be. But we have a lot stronger reason to believe that Hillary will just spit in our eyes after she gets in. Her many disgusting ploys thus far say nothing but - "you can't trust me to keep my word for two minutes"

I'd rather bet on the hope that Obama will try hard to attain an ideal than to turn it over to Hillary knowing that there's a 98% chance she'll screw the pooch at every other turn.

Hillary only fights for herself.

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Are you channelling Penn? "insignificant red states", "all the states that count", "Hillary is a fighter".

I don't know why Hillary is called a fighter. A fighter would be out fighting in all 50 states instead of calling some states insignificant and complaining that the caucus rules aren't fair. That sounds more like Hillary is more a complainer than a fighter.

Let's see... Eight years of drama in the Clinton White House, endless wars in the Middle East, a negative and divisive primary, and Hank is pining for four more years of the Clintons.

By all means, let's have more fighting! This is indeed good news for the Clintons.

I am frankly sick of all the fighting and shouting and fingerpointing and therefore not supporting the Clintons.

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I think what Ferraro meant to say was....

If Obama was not black but was, say, a white man who had the EXACT same experience with the EXACT same history of very careful votes (present etc.), no strong legislative accomplishments in Illinois Legislature or US Senate who started running for President ONE year into his US Senate career, would he have won all those caucuses and primaries in those same states? Would he have gotten the overwhelming support he has gotten from the black community or any combination of communities that puts him 110 pledged delegates ahead of Clinton?

I believe the answer would be NO.

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If Obama was not black (funny he's actually 1/2 black but anyway) then he might have been Robert Kennedy.

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I keep on hearing how Hillary is such a fighter. Could someone please provide some good examples of this, please? She certainly did not fight Bush on his war and she capitulated on health care (setting that cause back ten years in the process). What big issues has she ever successfully fought for?

The primary reason I lean Barrack is there I see a tenacious fighter - just look at his record. And if he wasn't such a good fighter he would not be still in the race now - and leading at that. He has proven that he can handle himself just fine in the political ring. He just doesn't fight the way people expect and that is his great strength. People just keep punching at him until they wear themselves out. He just brushes himself off and moves on.

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I keep on hearing how Hillary is such a fighter. Could someone please provide some good examples of this, please? She certainly did not fight Bush on his war and she capitulated on health care (setting that cause back ten years in the process). What big issues has she ever successfully fought for?

The primary reason I lean Barrack is there I see a tenacious fighter - just look at his record. And if he wasn't such a good fighter he would not be still in the race now - and leading at that. He has proven that he can handle himself just fine in the political ring. He just doesn't fight the way people expect and that is his great strength. People just keep punching at him until they wear themselves out. He just brushes himself off and moves on.

Clinton has some baggage, yes, but she's a serious, do what it takes winner. A survivor. Anything less will result in failure against the Republicans.
So do what ever it takes Huh?Does that mean WIN at all cost?Does that mean Destroying who ever gets in your way?And be Damed about who it hurts in the Process?I would have to be struck by Lightningfrom on High before I would VOTE for Clinton.To put it bluntly Sir if she is any where on the ticket around it or on it I will Vote for John McCain!!!

The Clintons have been engaging in so much "inspection" they're up into Mr. Obama's duodenum by now.

Oh and look at the time; it's March already.

Let's see, March, March.... Oh yes, now I remember! This is the month the Clintons were going to have the nomination all sewn up like a comely blue dress.

I guess you could say Mr. Obama is passing the "test", and the Clintons are failing -- even by their own standards.

Given its record of accuracy, we might do well to keep in mind the Obama campaign's internal projection for PA:

Clinton 52%

Obama 47%

right. they also point out they don't think PA is that important. weren't they going to send him to Europe?

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A Rasmussen polls from not too long ago had Hillary losing Pennsylvania to McCain, 44% to 42% while Obama easily beat McCain, 49% to 39%, so I think it is a fair bet that Obama does much better there than Hillary, no matter how this primary turns out. The same thing can be seen in all kinds of states she has won, Obama is still the best.

Apparently, Obama's win in MS didn't get him any net delegate gains....

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/13/clinton_obama_add_to_delegate_numbers/

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Do the math, Clinton needs to win PA 65-35 to get the delegates she needs. Otherwise she barely lays a glove on Obama. She knows this. He knows this. Everything else is spin.

McCain Begins Vice President

By Eric Allen Bell

San Antonio, Texas. (March 12) - Republican presidential candidate John McCain said on Wednesday he has begun the process of finding a vice presidential running mate and wants someone who shares his rage and can take his place.

Speaking to reporters on a campaign plane, loaned to him by lobbyists for oil companies and war machines, the expected Republican nominee said he had seen news reports that famed serial killer Charles Manson, had expressed interest in the job, but he offered no comment one way or the other on whether Manson would be a candidate.

"Manson shares my views that human beings can and should be tortured and killed," McCain said of Manson’s interest in the No. 2 slot on the Republican ticket in November's election.

Manson told Fixed News Channel's "Hannity and Colmes" on Tuesday that "any Serial Killer in this country would be honored to be asked to serve as the vice presidential nominee for John McCain, myself included." He went on to say that, "The over 1 million innocent people killed since the Iraqi invasion makes George Bush the ultimate serial killer, especially given that half of those murdered were innocent children. I feel that McCain has what it takes to carry on that legacy and even outdo Bush with the upcoming invasion of Iran. This is history in the making." Said Manson, "And I’d like to be a part of it."

Charles Manson endorsed McCain in February after the Arizona senator defeated Gulianni in an often caustic campaign battle. McCain will face either Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York or Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois in November. Clinton, herself an aspiring serial killer who supported the Iraq invasion, has the blood of a half million innocent dead Iraqi children on her hands and seems to feel no remorse. Said Manson, "She is gifted with the ability to harm others and feel no pain but rather seek the spotlight to increase her base of power. I feel that, given the opportunity, she will kill again".

When asked about Democratic Presidential candidate, Senator Barack Obama, Manson went on to say, "He is not ready to mass murder on day one. He lacks the experience of taking human lives for pleasure or for personal gain. I don’t know how anyone can take him seriously."

At a town-hall meeting in San Antonio, Texas, McCain went out of his way to praise Manson as well as more notable and effective mass murderers such as the late Edi Amin, China’s Chairman Mao Tse-Tung and of course the great Adolf Hitler.

"My friends, I fought in Viet Nam. I was a trained killer" Said the Arizona Senator, "I don’t remember what we were fighting for, but I loved to kill and, given the opportunity to serve this country as Commander and Chief, I can promise you a blood bath in the Middle East. America will never be looked at the same way ever again once I leave office." he said.

Talking to reporters on his campaign bus, the Double Talk Express, the 71-year-old McCain made clear he has not put together a list of candidates yet but has some ideas in mind. He said he could not say whether Charles Manson was "on or off the list." There have been some unconfirmed rumors on the Beltway that McCain was also in talks with other serial killers and military commanders at Guantanamo Bay for the number two slot.

NO DECISION EXPECTED SOON

Offering some details on what type of person he was considering, McCain said he did not believe having a "personal bond" with the running mate was all that critical as long as they shared the same views and philosophy.

He also said he did not think the vice presidential candidate needed to be from a certain region, "So long as he is male, not a homosexual, a devout Christian and white."

No decision was expected anytime soon. Presidential nominees often wait until just before their party's nominating convention in late summer to announce their running mate.

McCain said he and advisers have begun discussing "what was the process that was used in other campaigns, what process should we go through." He added, "I just can’t wait to get my finger on the button of this nation’s Nuclear arsenal. That’s just some straight talk, my friends. Power makes me feel high and I want to destroy things, entire villages, men women and children. I don’t care about oil. I keep saying this war is not about oil. This is about showing my father that I am number one and showing the world that America is number one."

He said his prime criteria is someone "who can take your place, shares your principles, your values and your vision and your priorities." He added that "Given the principals of the Neoconservative movement, I believe that Charles Manson would be on anyone’s short list."

McCain talked about his vice presidential search as he came to San Antonio, Texas to hold a town-hall meeting at the Church of Pastor John Hagee, where he thanked the Right Wing bigot for endorsing his candidacy. "Pastor Hagee hates human beings and I share his values. If I am elected into office, I will appoint Hagee to head up a task force on how to promote American values here at home."

When asked if the Senator would consider Ann Coulter for the Vice Presidential nominee he remarked, "Now that would be going too far."

www.WeCanStopMcCain.org

I am reading this in the morning and am surprised to see no one has stepped up to answer your repeatedly-asked question, Diet. I'd kind-of like to get back to seeing the good in each candidate, too. So, this isn't what you asked for, but maybe it will get you an answer.

Hillary and Obama have similar stands on the big issues, and so maybe this is why there is so little discussion of those issues. That will come in the general, I guess (I hope!). So given that they will strive towards similar goals in the White House, and that the experience thing seems to be moot, I see some main differences as:

-Obama is inspiring new and young voters and even appealing to Republicans. He is making it okay for "red states" to come to his side because he erases these petty distinctions with his campaign. It's not just talk that he will be a unifying presence in Washington...he's already laying the foundation for that.

-He will inspire more people to feel included and get involved fighting for issues they care about...this participation is what will cause the greatest change in our country.

-He is a great thinker with a real passion for government (not a passion for power) and this trumps experience with a job like the presidency.

-He isn't a Bush or a Clinton! (sorry, that's snarky, but it is something that worries me a bit...).

-He seems to genuinely care about people and has a refreshingly open mind. He will challenge those of us who are becoming more and more segregated...whether by race, socioeconomics, religion or politics.

-He is relatively free of political baggage and can honestly represent the needs and concerns of the people. Not all of us, obviously, with every issue, but the ones who need it most.

-He has more faith in Americans than we have in ourselves. His bright view of our future is infectious.

Maybe a Clinton supporter can now highlight some unique, exciting things about her?

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I'm disturbed by the signals coming from the Obama campaign that he's not going to focus strongly on PA. They don't seem to understand that the primary campaign in PA is about much more than the immediate tactical needs of the nomination contest. They need to use PA to hone their economic message for the fall, when the economy will be THE issue. So far they haven't been doing a good job at all of communicating to working-class voters that Obama understands their fears and has concrete plans to preserve and create good jobs if he's elected, and no, directing people to his website doesn't cut it. (I don't think Hillary has done a very good job on this either- she gets working-class votes based mainly on memories of better times in her husband's administration). The long PA runup represents a golden opportunity for Obama's campaign to get its act together on issues on which he'll need to runs strongly in the fall. If they waste this opportunity I'll be very concerned. I can understand spending a little time in Indiana at this point- it's a tossup state he's going to need to win. But NC can wait- his base and his lead are solid there.

Steve, I don't think these signals from the Obama campaign reflect the reality of how Obama will approach PA.
The campaign has to downplay PA in the same way HRC had to downplay all of the states she knew she couldn't win. If they downplay, and then tie or win PA, HRC's last battle is over.
If they agree with Clinton's hype of PA, it promotes her "only big states matter" mantra and goes against Obama's strong all-inclusive message.
Obama will fight in PA. No worries.

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If this race was just about "experience", Bill Richardson would have been the undisputed nominee, yet the only way Hillary can get swing votes and win this race is if she creates the illusion of her own experience or successfully attacks the character of her opponent. She is trying to do both of these things.

What people need to ask themselves is if Clinton wins, what do we get? We get someone who was able to engineer an electoral victory. We DON'T get a leader. We continue down the same path the the Karl Rove's and the Mark Penn's of the world have set us down. We deserve better.

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Hillary is a 'survivor' by aligning with her avowed enemies, adopting their divisive tactics, even being willing to destroy her own party by lauding McCain over her own party's frontrunner.

This reminds me of Holocaust 'survivors' who 'survived' by collaborating with their oppressors and against their own fellows.

I can at least try to understand the selfish and craven behavior of those who collaborated to save their own lives....but Hillary's selfishness and heavy use of rovian tactics is just about her political fortunes, not her very life.

When I hear folks praise Hillary as a 'survivor', I think of how she is trading her integrity for that survival.

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Donna,

Calling her a "survivor" implies that she's some sort of victim. She's no victim.

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I don't think that Pennsylvanians have heard about the awesome antiwar speech Obama gave in 2002. When they do, HE'll be up by 18 points.

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Yes - the math is not there for Hillary to win on pledged delegates. Of course, the math is also not there for Obama to win the nomination on pledged delegates alone.

As a Clinton supporter (and I truly believe she feels the same way) - nobody with any power in the Democratic Party would countenance any backroom deals or any appearance of such, in order to garner the superdelegates needed to push one or the other over the top.

Therefore, her only hope is to win Pennsylvania, and the revotes in Florida and Michigan (yes, they must be revotes), by enough to squeak out a victory in the total popular vote (difficult, but not inconceivable).

Then she can make an open, aboveboard claim to her being "the people's candidate" on that basis and attempt to woo the superdelegates (who can vote their conscience under "the rules") to her side.

Obama's road to the nomination is easier at this point, but to say that Hillary is out of it and should step aside, or that she needs to cheat and get some kind of backroom deal (that would never be allowed to happen), ignores the fact that this is still a very close contest - with Obama in front right now.

I'll happily suppo