Well they got a point, reducing someones life time of good work down to 2 mins of sound bites its quite insulting.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/jwalking/

Above is a link to David Kuo blog Beliefnet.
He offers some very good insight - and praise - for Sen. Obama's ability to separate the "sin" from the "sinner"

Anyone who bothers to research Sen. Obama's writings, read any of his books understands that when he went to Chicago as a community organizer at 27 years of age - not a as a child -- he was advised to join the Church to understand the plight of the black man. That this would help him do a better job in the community.

Obama came to Chicago with a black face but as a white man.

The multiple culture and as Obama says "little bits of America" in him are what makes him truly unique. He stayed at the Church for the good works they did for the community. This is not in dispute.

That over the course of 20 years Rev Wright said some deplorable things is also not in dispute.

What is most upsetting about this whole episode is that if thinking people are willing to abandon a cause and a movement based on a few minutes of targeted, isolated video - how commited were they in the first place?

Obama is the same man he was before FOX and co started incessantly replaying the same clips over and over again.

Was what Wright said about 9/11 vile? Yes but I hate to tell you what my Rabbi said at the service after 9/11 and am glad for his sake no one videotaped it

Obama is to be commended not derided for being able to separate the messenger from the message --
Maybe if we had people in government who could do this we would not be having the fifth anniversary of a pointless war this week

If we allow ourselves to be manipulated by YOU TUBE then shame on us all

This is more like it, damn it! Go get 'em!!

Nice indictment of the hypocrisy about this stuff:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/obamas-minister-committe_b_91774.html

a) True.

b) Please stop talking now.

So now we have to listen to all Pastor Wright's sermons before deciding that it's wrong for ANY pastor to say "God D#$% America" in church? Obama's church is doing exactly what he does: Yelling "racist" instead of addressing the substance of the objections. Playing the race card to put themselves above any criticism.

The liberal elitist in me is taking guilty pleasure in watching this boil get lanced. All these dolts, stunned and confused by the fact that some African Americans are angry!

Turns out John McCain is a lonely voice for decency and tolerance.

On days like today I wish the Dems could trade the Ferraro faction for McCain.

The mainstream media of Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN are trying to make a mountain out of hay, which I see is not working. Its only uniting the Democratic party campaigns. It's not dividing us as evidence of todays Sunday news shows indicated. Fox News is really looking desperate because they (& ABC) bought these tapes and want to get a lot attention out of it, to help their sick news stories floating and their revenue coming.

Now this is an interesting response to all the drama surrounding Wright. Rather than apologizing, going on the offensive, but doing it smartly.

But putting Wright's remarks within a context, Trinity United's messengers are creating their own frame within which to view the remarks of their pastor. Moreover, because that frame includes a faith tradition with direct ties to the civil rights movement, it lends Wright legitimacy in the eyes of the people watching TV, who otherwise might have seen merely disconnected hatred. Even if the hatred is still there, it's no longer there without reason.

And more bluntly, it suggests that further lambasting of Wright, or Obama, on this matter will risk being portrayed as an assault on the tradition of the black church in the United States, which I think most decent folk won't want to touch with a ten foot pole. Any Sean Hannity hack that tries it again risks getting labeled as 'racist' and 'religiously bigoted.'

Is that crap or ice cream you have for brains in the graphic in your posts?

The problem with the Frank Schaeffer comment is that he is talking about the 1970s and 1980s and this is 2008 - there is a big difference.

Another horrible anti-American bigot: Frederick Douglass.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h2927t.html

.
Well folks,

I listened to the sermon at the good Trinity United Church tonight.

Two statements stood out and started things off tonight:

"We understand people who turn their back on you".

uh huh amen and other such sounds of agreement by the parishioners.......
....

"We understand people who won't even tell the truth about you".

uh huh, that's right... amen ....
....

So it would appear that Mr. Obama has not been honest and forthcoming about his relationship with his church.

It would appear that he threw his pastor and his church under the bus for political expediency.

And it would appear that they are not happy about it.

Rae

Obserever wrote:

The problem with the Frank Schaeffer comment is that he is talking about the 1970s and 1980s and this is 2008 - there is a big difference.

No the problem is you haven't done so much as a simple google search.

Try: Pat Robertson +hate +gay
Or: Jerry Falwell +hate +gay
Or: Hagee +McCain +hate

If you are lazy, and I think you may will be, try clicking on this site:

http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hate.html

Do yo think you can make an argument why "Goddamn Gays!" is okay and "Goddamn America!" is not?

Good luck with that.
Ethical relativism is a very hard sell.

>>This issue will not go away, in fact, if I were a 527, I'd keep one or two of the best DVDs for the GE.
MP, the tapes are available -- lots of them. Why don't you listen to them yourself before announcing what is on them! Just a suggestion. I'm not a Clinton supporter, but if she were being condemned for listening to years of anti-American hate .. but she said that she had not .. I think I'd feel obliged to listen to what she heard before calling her a liar.

Here, for example, is a sermon of Rev. Wright's that we know Obama heard and gave attention.
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/for-the-record.html#more
I'm just curious what you find objectionable about that?

In terms of the five stages of grief, I'll put most of you down as in denial. Obama's candidacy is dead. His campaign is dead. His movement is dead. Let it sink in.

Obama's Minister Committed "Treason" but When my Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero

Worth repeating for RaeK and Billy Glad. Check it out:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/obamas-minister-committe_b_91774.html

Keep your head in the sand, guys!

I think this has been something of a hightech lynching. Some hitjob video spliced together of stuff taken from over a period of years ripped out of context.

While I don't espouse some of Wright's conspiracy theories, the core tone of his message seems to be quite positive -- no racism, no violence, no arrogance ...

The MSM tone about Wright is fundamentally prejudiced. We have white pundits gets all huffy and scared because a popwerful black preacher is angry at American arrogance and racism. I note that the MSM doesn't invite any black commentators to give THEIR view. It's only the white perspective.

(And of course, conveniently, white fire-and-brimstone preachers get a pass -- why? because of the white comfort level) The response to this is totally irrational. Wright is proudly black and indignant about Americas failings.

As an aside, the WaPo columnist Colby King, a black man, said he has heard preachers like Wright many times before. He said it is a way for the black community to vent their frustrations. And he pointed out that the most segregated day of the week is Sunday morning. Apart from him, I haven't seen anyone ask a black person for their perspective on this. Just whites talking about white's feelings.

Basically, a black with a strong opinion and anger is labeled "radical" in America. Can you think of ANY black preacher or activist who hasn't been tarred as "radical"? Geraldine Ferraro was calling Jesse Jackson "radical" in 1988. Al Sharpton is disparaged as a loudmouth radical too. Ditto Malcom X (probably was radical). Even Martin Luther King Jr., who now is viewed as a teddy bear, was at the time quite controversial, especially when he spoke out against American foreign policy. So if you have a "test" that no one has ever "passed", I'd say it's rigged so that either blacks shut up about racism and other societal ills or they are called "radical".

Ask yourself: If MLK gave this speech today, what would the Rightwing Noise Machine say about it?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bOOL3BYaIEQ

"Don't let anybody make you think God chose America as his divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems I can hear God saying to America "you are too arrogant, and if you don't change your ways, I will rise up and break the backbone of your power, and I will place it in the hands of a nation that doesn't even know my name."

Martin Luther King Jr.
(1967-08-16)

Yeah - Obama will be a GREAT general election candidate with all this new politics stuff.

Obama: I beleive there is no white america, no black america - just one america. Except I have been a congregant more than 20 years of a pastor who inspired me and said the govt created aids against black people and damn america. Never mind that - I didn't support those comments - I just voted "present". I like voting present, but don't pay attention to what is being said in church. I am just there to build my political base in the african american community & prove I am not a muslim. --> and before you call this a bigoted comment my name is Khadija and I am a Catholic. I know all about people making religious assumptions based on your name.

Sure hope this not going to alienate the reagan republicans & "obamacans" who I am sure quite a few have picked up their bags and left the tent after hearing the not so good reverend Wright.

This guy has no chance in the general election. The more I get to know about Obama, the less respect I have for him. I'm hoping Hillary can come back, but I am trademarking my "don't blame me I voted for Hillary" bumper sticker now.

Now our Hillary loving friends are barking about black churches. I'm sure Barack's heard some antiAmerican statements. I went to law school and heard some too. I even heard some in social studies in high school. I think I've seen some in movies too. I guess everyone in the blast zone can't run for President. They've all been caught campaigning under the influence, or in Obama's case, campaigning while black. Shame on us! And thanks for the scoop.

Anyhow, it's nice our Hillary loving friends have found a thread where they can predominate, even if they have to stick their fingers in their ears and hit "send" repeatedly.

The issue is what Obama knew and when? His candidacy is dead? He's a liar?

Anyone who thinks the Clintons have an honesty/integrity advantage is surely doing standup. Marc Rich bought his pardon through the Rodhams and the Clintons. And Obama's never done anything as venal in his life as head the sluts-and-nuts persecutions of Bill's various (frequently Democratic) harassment victims.

His candidacy is so dead, the Wright flap blipped him from plus 7 in Gallup/Rasmussen to 3 two days later. How _utterly_ decisive and significant.

It's so obvious that she's surging, that the Edwards delegates in Iowa went to Obama en masse, giving him a 170 plus pledged lead, with 600 to go.

The open secret of her candidacy is her failure to exceed 58 anywhere outside Arkansas. Spin all you like, fantasists, but she's got a small number of narrow wins in large states, a number of crushing losses in a series of medium tier states, and runs worse than Obama everywhere west of the Mississippi except Arkansas and Oklahoma.

We were told around the time of Ohio and Texas that Obama should drop out if he lost them. The Hillarists on this thread are carrying that meme forward by insisting he's losing and lost without any rational basis to say so. (Can they read polls? Can they add?)

The interesting (well, momentarily diverting, anyway) point will be what happens when we stick a fork in the unholy Billary third term express, several weeks after the meaningless victory in Pennsylvania. What will these tiresome folks write? Maybe there will be a McCain message board they can populate. We can only hope. Buh bye.

So Senator Dorf Airbus can be President, but Obama is unelectable?

Really?

From Wikipedia:

"In October 1989 The Arizona Republic reported that in addition to campaign contributions, McCain's wife and her father had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. The paper also reported that the McCains, sometimes accompanied by their daughter and baby-sitter, had made at least nine trips at Keating's expense, sometimes aboard the American Continental jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating's opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay. McCain also did not pay Keating for some of the trips until years after they were taken, after he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln. [1] Lincoln Savings and Loan's collapse is said to have cost taxpayers $3.4 billion [2]."

But Obama's preacher is a black evangelist, and that is bad. How much has Obama's preacher cost the American people?

Folks, I am just warming up to the happy fact that John McCain makes GW Bush look like an altar boy.

The Democrats could run Al Sharpton, and end up winning in November against McCain.

Obama's still in good shape in the primary, but I wonder what the Wright stuff will mean in the general election. I think that the Wright clips (coupled with Obama's close association with him over decades) along with the Rezko stuff could be effectively used in commercials by Republican "independent" commitees to scare white swing voters over to McCain. I hope that it'll be considered just old news by then, but I'm concerned.

I am sure it will be used, as will McCain's Bomb-Bomb-Bomb-Iran bumbles, and much more. However, with economic disaster looming, all these attacks and counter-attacks we are prophesizing about might end up being a luxury. I hope the fed rescue of Bear Stearns will prompt both BHO and HRC to start talking more forcefully about the economy and their plans for the future. That's much more important than all this stuff! On another note, a lot of this has to do with whether people are willing or not to believe that systemic racism still exists in America. If you do, Wright is understandable if unadmirable. Very interesting question about how BHO evolved into a post-racial candidate after drinking at the trough of highly racialized liberation theology.

The self-righteous blather from the offended officials of this den of superstitious nonsense--sorry, this church--is nauseating. "Rev." Wright's inflammatory racist rants and Obama's cowardly behavior in "renouncing" them (after two decades of sitting in the pews) have, imho, cost Obama any chance he may have had at being elected. Sure, he'll probably get the nomination. But this continuing drivel from the "Rev." Wright's supporters is only guaranteed to help sink Obama. And again, before the doctrinare among you get your panties in a knot, I was as guaranteed an Obama voter as you were likely to find until last week. I think I'll sit this one out come November.

Billy Glad, you're entitled to your opinions. Idiotic though they may be. There are some things that god needs to damn America for though. The foreign policies for the past 50 years comes to mind. How does Margaret Albright, Secretary of State from the Clinton Administration say in an interview with Leslie Stahl, that the deaths of half a million children in Iraq due to the sanctions against Iraq say, "the price was worth it." http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/13/7655/
When Reverend Wright says that God ought to damn America, I can't help agreeing with him. May God have mercy on us because we the people allow atrocities to take place against our fellow man.

So according to the NEW pastor of Obama's church, any criticism of the former pastor for repeating the Farrakhan lie that the US government created AIDS is "an attack on the legacy of the African American church"? Frankly, it is the spreading of vicious lies like these, as well as the damning of this country, that are the assault on a great legacy - people will remember Rev. Wright's distorted views instead of the great work African American churches have done in the civil rights struggle and in their communities.

Obama said he stayed with the church because the former pastor (Wright) was retiring; however it's clear that Wright reflected the underlying beliefs of the church community, and these continue under the new pastor (and with Obama's continued support).

I was a strong Obama supporter - voted for him, phone banked for him, donated money to him - but I find this to be a real horror. This church is far from the mainstream of America, and I can't see how America will elect as its president a willing participant in a community that so viciously condemns it.

Take a look at "Black Magic" which currently is airing for two nights on ESPN and you may gain more insight into what Rev. Jeremiah Wright's American experience has been.

Rev. Wright had the guts to serve his country's military as a U.S. Marine. To the many Leathernecks including my brother who served this country in Vietnam, Rev. Wright does not seem unpatriotic. Many of us talk a good patriotic game, but few of us actually have defended the Flag in addition to wearing it on our lapels and placing bumper stickers on our cars.

When did voicing dissent about areas of our society that could use improvement become unpatriotic. I guess whenever the good citizens of this country turn their backs on the Constitution and embrace un-American values.

I'm encouraged that most people have not bought into this overly hyped non-story. Any negative effect has been minimal as evidenced by the fact that Obama's support is growing instead of declining. And judging by the number of persons who have come to the defense of Obama on TPM, it appears that a lot of people have been able to discern this story accurately as political mischief.

The President of United Church of Christ
Rev John Thomas
speaks on Rev Jeremiah Wright

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYla5xdPTUg&eurl=http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/

"When did voicing dissent about areas of our society that could use improvement become unpatriotic." -- Bussta Brown

(I don't know how to do block quotes.)

I completely agree with you. America needs to buck up and take some criticism. This country is far FAR from perfect. And anyone who can't admit this is a fool. Plus, to everyone on this blog who has been pulling that "reverse racism" crap, just be quiet. You guys have no right. You should stop being defensive, take a deep breath, and try to see where Wright and the black community in this country is coming from.

While some cynics still view Barack Obama’s appeal for “change” as empty rhetoric, it’s starting to dawn on Washington insiders that his ability to raise vast sums of money from nearly one million mostly small donors could shake the grip that special-interest money has long held over the U.S. government.

This spreading realization that Obama’s political movement might represent a more revolutionary change than previously understood is sparking a deepening resistance among defenders of the status quo – and prompting harsher attacks on Obama.

Right now, the front line for the Washington Establishment is Hillary Clinton’s struggling presidential campaign, which has been stunned by Obama’s political skills as well as his extraordinary ability to raise money over the Internet. Obama’s grassroots donations have negated Clinton’s prodigious fundraising advantage with big donors.

Powerful lobbies – from AIPAC to representatives of military and other industries – also are recognizing the value of keeping their dominance over campaign cash from getting diluted by Obama’s deep reservoir of small donors. It’s in their direct interest to dent Obama’s momentum and demoralize his rank-and-file supporters as soon as possible.

So, neoconservatives and other ideological movements – heavily dependent on grants from the same special interests – are now joining with the Clinton campaign to tear down Obama by depicting him as unpatriotic, un-vetted, possibly a “closet Muslim” and Jeremiah Wright is the latest attempt to smear his character as racially divisive.

Hopefully the America people will not be so gullible this time and take their country back.

The power is theirs.

Turn out the lights......the party's over.

I think it is telling that Obama is smarter than his supporters on here. He -- at least -- realizes how damning this new statement is from his church. He canceled two appearences this morning (Good Morning America and Morning Joe on MSNBC) in order to avoid answering questions about his church.

I like Obama, but I think it is completely racist of some liberals here who say that Wright is typical of African-American churches. I have attended many African American churches and NEVER heard the kind of hatred and nonsense being preached by Obama's minister. And I saw a lot of other black ministers on TV being interviewed this weekend who said Obama should have gotten up and walked out of the church.

That NewsMax Article lies. Here's Ambiner with the facts:

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/kristol_bungles_key_fact_in_an.php

Quote:

The truth is that Obama did not attend church on July 22.

He was on his way to campaign in Miami.

(Here is some video evidence.) This was before he signed an agreement forbidding himself from campaigning in Florida.

The difference I see is that Pat Robinson, Hagee and their ilk are using this as a sign of warning - "repent, can't you see our sinful ways is what is causing God to punish us." Versus Reverend Wright who is relishing in the destrucion of Amerrica & enjoying it - Damn America and such because they are so bad to my people.

Both in my opinion are equally rerehensible. If you're willing to defend that crap, be my guest but as an African American woman I am appalled.

Obama is guilty by association. And not only by association, but by participation and support. He cannot expect any creditability to say he did not hear, did not know, did not see any hatred of America and racism when his church and preacher are all about it. He has been a member for 20 years!!! He is still a member. He supports the church, he was married there, his kids were baptized there, he's claimed Rev. Wright as a teacher and spiritual advisor, even on his campaign. His wife, much in line with the church, even has said she was not proud of America. Now, oh yes, now, he wants us to believe that he didn't listen, did know... Sure, he slept through 20 years of sermons, he only by chance wrote his book using words from Rev. Wright. I'm sorry but this is simply not believable and I can't imagine there is enough Kool-Aid for the Obama Cult to continue to buy Obama's lies and BS.

BTW, consider this, if you openly support Obama, who is now tied to blatant racism and hatred of America, you are by association also saying you agree with this racism and hatred of America that he apparently holds dear through his church. Are you thus, racist and American hating as well? How will you explain this to your colleagues, friends, and family? Are you contributing to a hostile workplace? Should you be sanctioned with diversity and sensitivity training, maybe even suspended or fired?

You cannot separate the message from the messenger. Twenty adult years is too much by any stretch of the imagination to say none of his happened or means nothing.

http://rasmussenreports.com/

Just 8% Have Favorable Opinion of Pastor Jeremiah Wright
Monday, March 17, 2008

Pastor Jeremiah Wright, who has become part of the national political dialogue in recent days, is viewed favorably by 8% of voters nationwide. A Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 58% have an unfavorable view of the Pastor whose controversial comments have created new challenges for Barack Obama’s Presidential campaign.

Wright was Obama’s Pastor until he retired last month, but Obama has repudiated the preacher’s comments.

Seventy-three percent (73%) of voters say that Wright’s comments are racially divisive. That opinion is held by 77% of White voters and 58% of African-American voters. In addressing the issue, Obama warned against injecting race into the campaign .

Most voters, 56%, said Wright’s comments made them less likely to vote for Obama. That figure includes 44% of Democrats. Just 11% of voters say they are more likely to vote for Obama because of Wright’s comments.

However, among African-Americans, 29% said Wright’s comments made them more likely to support Obama. Just 18% said the opposite while 50% said Wright’s comments would have no impact.

Overall, voters are evenly divided as to whether Obama should resign his membership in the Church—42% say that he should while 40% disagree. White voters, by a 46% to 33% margin, say that Obama should leave the Church. African-American voters, by a 68% to 16% margin, say he should not. Wright retired last month as Pastor of the Church.

The story became big news in the past several days and has had at least a temporary impact on public perceptions of Obama. Last Thursday, 52% of voters nationwide had a favorable opinion of Obama. That figure has fallen to 47% on Monday (see recent daily results). In recent days, Obama has also lost ground to John McCain in the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll.

Sixty-six percent (66%) of voters say they have read, seen, or heard news stories about Wright’s comments.

The gift that will keep on giving. Praise the Lord.

From above:
"This is an attack on the legacy of the African American Church which led and continues to lead the fight for human rights in America and around the world."

Here we ago again... Why when there is any complaint does it have to come down to the simplest terms of racism, whether it is there or not. Now, it seems it is racist to say anything against the black church, before it was racist to say Obama's stance on Iraq was a fairy tale, then it is racist to say what CNN said as well about Jesse Jackson winning in S. Carolina. Then it was racist for Ferraro to say race was a part of this race. I thought the whole message of the Obama campaign with its introduction by Oprah Winfrey and Obama being compared to the second coming of MLK, was that here was an African American who could be President. The media has made this contest nothing but race against gender. I am tired of listening to this campaign always cry racism over any criticism no matter what and then say race shouldn't be part of this.

Malcolm said it so much better.

http://www.malcolm-x.org/speeches/spc_120463.htm

How strange to see the same sentiments expressed by a Christian minister.

How do you think Obama compares to Malcolm and Wright?

I have to say, this one says it all. Why don't I support Obama?

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/09/senate-condemns.html

He's an empty suit.

Billy Boy
Farrakhan may have said somethings that were thought to be shameful by some but he and his
group are responsible getting more men and women off drugs than any community based group you can mention Ollie North Brings Dope into the Community
and is applauded Farrakhan improves the quality of life for peoplea nd is recognises for his postive effect on the community and Rev.wright acknowledges his contribution and is attacked for it!!! Go Figure