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Hillary: Obama Campaign Wants To "Shut This Race Down"

Another interesting tidbit from Mark Halperin's interview with Hillary: Asked what her most likely path to victory is, she said...

CLINTON: Well, first I think that it's important to point out that the premise of the whole discussion that some people are engaged in is off base because this is a very close race...

I've won states that Democrats need to win in the general election in order to win the White House and obviously the strategy on the other side is to try to shut this race down, but I don't think voters want that. You know, there was a big surge in registration here in Pennsylvania. That seems to be happening in other states that are in the upcoming contests. Millions of people still remain to vote and to have their votes counted, so I think it's exciting and I find it very positive for our party. We're going to bring a lot of people into this race.

It is true that Obama campaign manager David Plouffe has repeatedly suggested to reporters that she can't catch him and that there should be a "sober" (his word) evaluation of her chances. But to my knowledge, no one in the Obama camp has ever publicly said the race should end.

Either way, it's interesting that Hillary went so far and is readying herself for a debate over whether the race should continue.

Also, Hillary's assertion that continuing the contest could be good for the party could prove a tough sell, at least to party insiders, some of whom are worried that a drawn-out and increasingly bitter contest could could do far more harm to the party than good.


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And Obama should reply confidently that he also hopes it goes until June, because he’s found that the more he campaigns, the more he is able to meet and connect with voters, and the better he does in polls and primaries. That having the opportunity to debate Senator Clinton only focuses his skills, that being able to develop a ground operation will only help him in November, and that the more he is on the campaign trail, the more he hears from average Americans who are looking for real change from their government.

Throw it back in her lap.

In the immortal words of Homer Simpon, "my sentimonies, exactly."

If by "the other side" she means Obama's supporters, she's correct. Most of us want the primary over so we can actually focus on McCain and still have a chance to win.

Yeah, well, I'm sure the NE Patriots would have been happy to have the Super Bowl cut several minutes short as well.

You want your candidate to win. That's perfectly fine.

But that desire doesn't cancel out the fact that there are 10 (TEN!) contests left.

yeah, there are. And the rules dictate proportional representation. Unless hillary does well above expected numbers in EVERY SINGLE CONTEST and she gets MI and FL seated, it is over.

It isn't just a repeat of NH. She needs to beat Obama soundly in Indiana, North Carolina and Oregon. By soundly I mean 60/40. She then needs to be beat him at least 60/40 in EVERY OTHER CONTEST. Then she needs to have MI seated with 0 delegates for Obama.

Then she can do it. Woo....hoo?

You're such a good boy, toeing the Obama line.

You all have that inevitability card down really well.

Good job.

If Obama loses every remaining state, the super-d's will have more than enough excuse to go for Hillary. It will show that Obama has been damaged beyond repair by Wright.

Also, if FL and MI aren't resolved, we really will not have a tally to determine whether or not the super-delegates will be overturning the will of the people or not. So, even better cover for the super-ds to go for Clinton.

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"You're such a good boy, toeing the Obama line."

A little condescension to get us started! Always nice.

"You all have that inevitability card down really well."

The fact any Clinton supporter would ever try to accuse anyone else of thinking their candidate's inevitable...that's TOO ironic. Wow, that's rich.

"If Obama loses every remaining state, the super-d's will have more than enough excuse to go for Hillary. It will show that Obama has been damaged beyond repair by Wright."

No, it won't. First, polls have shown that he's weathered that storm, and her pithy remark yesterday won't mean much - especially since she's facing credibility issues of her own. If he merely "loses", he'll likely still have a commanding lead in pledged delegates, states won and popular vote. I swear, some of your Clinton supporters seem to be suddenly ignorant when it comes to the actual math of this race. Do you understand that she's not only have to win, but crush him by well over 20 points in EACH of those states? Do you really think he'll lose the rest of the contests, especially by that margin?

You folks are living in a dream world.

"Also, if FL and MI aren't resolved, we really will not have a tally to determine whether or not the super-delegates will be overturning the will of the people or not."

Yawn. Look, my mother lives in FL, and is dying for a chance to have her Obama vote count. But there's something you have to realize, and she's telling me this from first-hand accounts: many, many Floridians didn't vote because they didn't feel it would count. (Ask MI voters how they feel about that, considering the Clinton campaign's actively trying to disenfranchise those that voted Republican because that was the primary that mattered.) I love how you Clinton folks want to wrap yourselves in the flag and talk about disenfranchisement when it's your campaign that's trying to get twisted, incomplete results that don't truly reflect the will of the people to count for YOU. And Michigan, especially - I mean, how dumb do you think the American people are?

"So, even better cover for the super-ds to go for Clinton."

'Cover' may not be the best word to use, considering the sniper-fire gaffe.

Yeah, the inevitability card.

We know we played it and that's why we are laughing at you now for playing it.

I see you are an independent. That's fine. I only care that a Democrat wins and I'm sure the top Democratic leadership agrees. We aren't terribly concerned about simply installing your cult leader, without regard for the consequences.

Rev. Wright hit the scene very late in the game. If Obama tanks through the remaining contests, which may or may not happen, I think we would all agree that he wouldn't have won any contests (save SC, MS, AL) had we known. Therefore, good enough for SDs to assert their right of independent judgment.

And you can yawn, snore, dismiss FL and MI. If those aren't counted, then there will be no way to know if the popular/delegate votes are actually being over turned. Don't think for a second that the SD won't save the day if it becomes obvious he can't win; they will make this exact argument. So, dismiss it all you want.

Again, this isn't about crowning your cult leader.

You can b*tch and moan all you want. Or...you could save it.

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Let me break out my violin. YOUR candidate's the one whose hubris led her to claim that the race would be over by Super Tuesday. Save it.

I think they both said that. Actually, I'm absolutely sure they did.

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I'm "sure" I won the state title by sinking a buzzer-beating three. I'm "sure" there were three fewer zeroes on my paycheck than there should've been.

Either prove it or save it.

Why don't you prove me wrong, little man.

But obviously the Obama campaign has been trying to pressure Hillary to concede defeat, which would end the race. The exact same thing was happening in the long lead-up to the Texas/Ohio primaries when enormous pressure was being placed on Hillary to concede. To say that Obama himself has not called on Hillary to concede may be true, but it is meaningless in that his campaign and supporters have been doing exactly that.

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"But obviously the Obama campaign has been trying to pressure Hillary to concede defeat, which would end the race."

Obviously? What statements have they issued? Politico's one of the news sites out there that's leaned to Hillary more so than Obama - yet THEY'RE the ones that wrote the most damning assessment of her chances.

If it's so "obvious", it shouldn't be difficult for you to prove.

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It is Hillary's destructive campaigning that has led some of us out here in the blogosphere to call for her to either behave at least as well as a Republican or concede defeat. If she were acting like she had some home-training the long campaign would be a benifit for who ever wins. As it stands she is engaging in the very politics of personal destruction that she and Bill railed against when others employed it against them.

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I don't want the race to end, I want the Tanya Harding tactics of the Clinton campaign to end. She is messing up our chances in November even though she has almost no chance of winning.

On hardball the other day they had a roundtable go over Hillary's motices and the consensus was that Hillary, if she can't win this year, would rather have McCain win this year so she could run against McSame in 2012. In other words if Hillary can't have it she wants the GOP to have it.

How is that for loyalty?

"I want the Tanya Harding tactics of the Clinton campaign to end"
Oh really?
The Clinton campaign realizes that no matter what they do, they will be declared evil. They realize that no matter what Obama does, he will be declared a saint. In such an environment, both the Clinton campaign and the Obama campaign will feel no restraint to their behavior. The Media and some of the Left blogs have created this climate. Pols are pols and do what they do. I expect nothing else from them. I once expected honest assessments from some in the Media and from most in the Left blogs. I no longer do. Clearly neither do the campaigns. If the headlines and coverage do not change no matter what is done by the campaigns, then you can not expect the headlines and coverage to matter to the campaigns in terms of tactics. For all those in the Media and in the Left blogs deploring the negativity of the campaign, I suggest they look in the mirror for the main culprits.

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!! EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET THE CLINTONS!

Shorter dembillc: It's everybody else's fault that Clinton has deployed the Tanya Harding Strategy.

Victims to the end.

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So, two weeks ago, much of the media was questioning Obama's judgment about Wright. How does this fit into your analysis?

You've created an untestable theory about Clinton. If anyone says anything bad you have your explanation: everyone says she's evil. This is exactly the shell that religious fundamentalists create to shield themselves from possible contradictory information. I invite you outside of that shell. The "lefty blog" community, as you can see here, is still reasonably diverse. There is no great conspiracy afoot. It is just we've always liked progressives over DLC'ers here. Simple as that.

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Ah, so the kitchen sink strategy is the media's fault.

Those comments the Clintons made about McCain passing the CIC threshold and Obama not crossing it are the medias fault.

Sure, nice try. Why is it Clinton supporters can't take responsibility for anything? They must be taking their cues from the Clintons.

well said.

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This just isn't true. There is nothing to stop Hillary from gaining strength by taking the high road. She lacks neither insight nor talent to do this, which makes it all the more lamentable that she has gone down another path.

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I do not expect either campeign to be restrained by how people report on what they do. I expect them to be restrained by their principals which they have been. Hillary has just proved that her principals do not prevent much.

Well, geez. If the roundtable on Hardball said it, then it must be true. I mean, Chris Matthews hasn't shown a bias or anything. It's not like he gets a tingling feeling running up his leg whenever Obama speaks...

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I believe it was Chuck Todd who said it, but whatever.

Blaming the media seems to be a Clinton stronghold. Ironic given the fact that the Clintons get the biggest free ride of all. If the media were doing its job the Clinton claim to experience would have been shot down a year ago.

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Let's be fair: another_reader wasn't complaining about the entire media, just Hardball. I, for one, think that's fair.

I sincerely doubt anyone from her campaign has used the term "Tonya Harding" to describe their own strategy, even if it does look that way to us outsiders.

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Actually it was a Democratic Party official who claimed the Clintons were using the Tonya Harding Option.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/dnc-official-cl.html

Consensus on Hardball? Wow. Then it's as good as written in stone. Because the talking heads and pollsters have NEVER been wrong about ANYTHING.

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Whatever. He didn't cite as gospel truth. Calm down.

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So we should keep voting, but any delegates that we elect should disregard the people who elected them and choose whoever their personal judgment feels is best.

That's the argument?

Very clear thinking, Brooke!

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Her incongruent thought process should be pointed out by the Media.

Greg, how about picking up on that?

Today her strategy, so as to make us believe her campaing is alive and well, is to blurt out an "intelligent" comment every five minutes.

It is important to point out the tangles she gets herself into.

Greg
If some party "insiders" and "experts" have concluded that the last 10 states voting would do more harm than good, why not ask them why they are allowing this to go on? The superdelegates ARE the party insiders and experts!

In other words, why is the blame solely on Hillary, and not the superdelegates? What are they waiting for? Isn't this thee story why thus far they have not chosen to get behind Obama?

Cheers

That is a good point. It is not Clinton's fault if the party elders have not stepped in to end this.

Of course, Hillary doesn't need the supers to end it. She does have it in her power to end it all by herself. Problem is, she refuses to exercise it and instead continues harming the party's chances. A golden opportunity for the Dems, served by a butler on a silver platter with fresh garnishes, and the Dems are going to blow it. Or more specifically, Hillary is going to blow it.

Wait!

Mark Simmons:

Greg If some party "insiders" and "experts" have concluded that the last 10 states voting would do more harm than good, why not ask them why they are allowing this to go on?

That's because without substantiating which "party insiders" are "worried that a drawn-out and increasingly bitter contest could do far more harm to the party than good," Greg Sargent states as fact:

at least to party insiders, some of whom are worried that a drawn-out and increasingly bitter contest could could do far more harm to the party than good.

Just because Greg Sargent has inside connections or works for Josh Marshall doesn't mean he doesn't have to back up his claims. ARGH!

How 'bout it, Greg? Were you referring to Party Insider Jesse Jackson Jr. to make your claim or to Party Insider Al Gore? 'Cause there's an obvious difference.

Hell's bells. I am no spokesman for the Obama campaign, but I am sure that he does want to shut this race down. So do I. So do a lot of people. Letting McCain get a free pass because we democrats are too busy bludgeoning each other is bad strategy.

Exactly. McCain's positives are rising like Bush Sr.'s after Op Desert Storm. If the Dems let it turn into a 3 mo GE campaign vs McSame, dems chances will be not good.

It's also noteworthy that Hillary is asserting that continuing the contest could be good for the party

Well, if the Tigress of Tuzla said it, it must be true.

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I don't want the race to end, I want the Tanya Harding tactics of the Clinton campaign to end. She is messing up our chances in November even though she has almost no chance of winning.

On hardball the other day they had a roundtable go over Hillary's motices and the consensus was that Hillary, if she can't win this year, would rather have McCain win this year so she could run against McSame in 2012. In other words if Hillary can't have it she wants the GOP to have it.

How is that for loyalty?

Voters also want more debates, more bickering and more Democratic dirty laundry in the media. Hillary could really do with a brief Caribbean vacation.

Ha! I encourage the CLinton campaign to start a public debate about whether they should drop out.

Seriously...does Mark Penn know anything?

If Hillary had a 700,000 vote lead, a 150 pledged delegate lead, and won twice as many contests as Obama she would say this race is over and there would be non-stop calls for him to get out.

Her comments about Wright yesterday were most likely designed to deflect attention away from Bosnia and make the SDs think twice about supporting Obama, but this may boomerang back at her. The comments suggest she is going to continue the toxic kitchen sink strategy and maybe that will make a few SDs decide they can no longer sit on the sidelines and let this continue. She is anticipating this and trying to hold them off.

I believe the SDs would let this go all the way to the convention if Hillary were running a positive campaign. But, I think the longer she continues attacking Obama, the more SDs will want to shorten the rest of the process. Even some Clintonites will realize this can't go on too much longer.

Ok,

Even assuming she wanted to run in 2012... who in the party would support her after all this? I honestly wouldn't be suprised if people dig into her finances and things AFTER the contest is over to try to find something she did that could be considered unethical or possibly illegal.

Depending on how far she's gone behind the scenes she could lose her Senate seat if she's not careful...

here's one to support here then. and i'm sure MANY people feel the same way.

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She's counting on the public having short memories. Which they do. Look at how she deflected the Bosnia lie to turn this back to Wright.

People have very short memories indeed. While we are all sitting here saying "OMG she's going to destroy the party" she still has a huge following, hence why the race is so close.

She destroys Obama, but he still gets the nom. Repugs run with her talking points (which are now no longer right wing talking points to be discarded, because Hillary has given them credibility)

Obama loses the GE because of the filth Hillary gave credit to. Then she comes back in 2012 with the "I told you he wasn't electible" meme and runs again to fix the mess we made.

Today's Rasmussen 4-day tracking shows Obama closing yesterday's 3-point deficit, probably indicating effect of Bosnia story on Clinton. Obama will likely regain his former lead, with Wright news offset by Bosnia news.

*gasp* Imagine if the situation was reversed... I wonder if Hillary would be so gung-ho about making sure all the voices were heard.

She's wrong about it being a close race. While it's true that the party has been somewhat evenly split about whether they prefer Obama or Clinton, it's clear at this point that significantly more prefer Obama, and there aren't enough races left to unravel that declared preference. Clinton has lost this race for the nomination and all that remains is running out the clock.

If Clinton wants to be Huckabee and stay in until the bitter end hoping for some scandal that really does make Obama untenable, that's fine. However, it's long past time for both candidates to train all of their remaining fire on McCain.

Even if there is a scandal that takes Obama out, it will almost certainly leave Clinton unelectable in November as well. That is particularly true if there is any suspicion that Clinton manufactured or introduced the scandal -- a suspicion that would be almost unavoidable at this point. So, she'd best hope that no scandal of that magnitude materializes.

Attacking Obama won't help her or the party, so it's time for both of them to start attacking McCain while running out the clock.

Imagine that...Hillary has to lie and distort the positions and quotes from the Obama campaign in order to make her point.

Desperation becomes her.

Of course Obama wants to shut this campaign down, everyone knows that Barack Obama blocked revotes in Florida and Michigan. Now he is hoping to disenfranchise all the remaining states as well.
The Politics of Nope!

Disenfranchsing by obeying the rules?

So if the delegate in your area was for Clinton, but switched over to Obama, you wouldn't be pissed off about that disenfranchising?

Hypocrite.

Yes everyone knows that Obama introduced legislatiion in the Michigan and Florida legislatures moving up their primaries in violation of DNC rules.

Everyone also knows that Obama casts all of the yea votes in support of that legislation and signed both pieces of legislation.

Everyone also knows that Obama crafted up the agreement that each of the Democratic Presidential candidates signed agreeing that the contests in Michigan and Florida would not count and that they would not compete or participate.

Everyone also knows that Obama forced Senator Clinton to disagree with conducting caucuses in those states.

Everyone also knows that Obama forced the Michigan and Florida legislatures to not appropriate additional money to hold primaries in compliance with the DNC rules.

Everyone also knows that Obama forced the Michigan legislature to submit a re-vote plan that ran afoul of constitutional law, Michigan state law and general principles of fair play.

Obama is a Jedi Knight.

NAFTA Lies
drip...drip...drip...drip

Bosnia Lies
drip...drip...drip...drip

"I don't think the voters want that, just a short time after I say that pledged delegates shouldn't care at all about who the voters vote for."

Seriously, is this shit for real???

This lady is meeting with members of the vast right wing conspiracy and sending around American Spectator articles. Her husband has gone on the Rush Limbaugh show and she's talking about what will be "very positive for our party."

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Obviously, by "our party," she means her coronation ceremony.

As for the headline, Duh.

As for the race being close, I liked the Tanya Harding analogy. She will have to blow him up to even have a chance of swaying the SDs, but by then, the bitterness and disgust will put McCain in the White House.

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Or perhaps will just drop out of the race because of fear. "If this is what Hillary has done to a fellow Democrat that she respects, imagine what she will do to an ancient Bush III carcass like me!"

June it is, then.

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When Obama has 50%+1 of the available pledged delegates Clinton will have the same chance to win as Al Gore. She can run around in garbage time scoring meaningless points and taking cheap shots but victory isn't something that is available after a certain point in a contest, even if there is still time left in said contest.

Geoffrey: You fool! As if it matters how a man falls down!
Richard: When the fall’s all that’s left, it matters a great deal.

After 50%+1 of the available pledged delegates are gone all that is left for Hillary Clinton is the fall. It will probably be a very ugly fall but that is the choice of Hillary Clinton, not Barack Obama.

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Winning Ohio, New York and maybe Pennsylvania during a Democratic Primary does NOT guarantee you will ALSO win that State in the general election.

If anybody believes this they need to check their past primaries and general elections. Facts do not prove out.

Of course, Obama SUPPORTERS want Hillary to drop out. Their man would have been LONG GONE by now - we ALL know it. They only reason she's still in and being listened to is the MEDIA and DNC are giving her ABOVE and BEYOND the chances of winning.

Look I just see anything coming out of her mouth as insincere,so I pay no attenion to what she has to say.In short she is a liar in the form of GWBUSH,& look at the price we are paying,giving this wretched soul(HCLINTON)keys to any office spells danger.

Why are people calling Clinton Tonya Harding? Because that famous Clinton hater says so?

I am a liberal who loves reading blogs but I can't stand it anymore given the vitriol the Obama people have unleashed. Clinton made a substantive policy argument this week on the mortgage problem and nothing is said about that. Days are spent bashing her about a gaffe and Obama sits on the beach and gets a tan and McCain can't even spell economy. Give me a break!

YOu guys are just talking to yourselves and alienating fellow democrats like me.

Mary Anne

There was nothing to say that wasn't said.

Her "substantive argument" was to form the same sort of group to oversee things that Obama had already proposed a year before, only she wants it to be headed by Alan Greenspan, whom many believe to be responsible for putting us in this mess to begin with.

What else is there to say about it?

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This has set the stage for Tonya Hardin sentiments. There has been many more since.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=OVuMYKs8iJs

So, what positive things are Clinton supporters saying about Obama that makes their spin so much more palatable? I think there's plenty of blame to assign to both sides for the level of vitriol, but I honestly think that the Clinton supporters are far worse. Having spent some time on certain Clinton websites, I fully understand the Atheists' Prayer, "Dear God, Please save me from your followers!!!"

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"famous Clinton hater"? Who was that, the "anonymous Democratic official" cited by Tapper?

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Her "substantive argument" was so bad the economist that's been kissing her ass for months, Paul Krugman, called her plan "pretty dumb":

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/all-stars/

No offense, but you need to toughen up. To imply that Obama supporters are behind this or that Obama himself hasn't gotten his fair share of this (heard of a Reverend named Wright?) is ludicrous.

Clinton is the one meeting with a right-wing nutjob and his editorial board; who brazenly lied about something she continues to dismiss as a "misstatement", undermining our ability to trust her about her resume; who spreads misinformed garbage from a right-wing rag (American Spectator) seeking to brand Obama and his surrogate as anti-Semites; and who openly discusses the possibility of thwarting the primary process by wooing PLEDGED delegates.

And Obama's to blame? Save it.

Hillary has jumped the shark. There is no where to go but down from here on out in her quest to be the dominatrix of the U.S.

She really desperately needs an intervention and some quiet contemplation time.

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After today using the American Spectator to try to permanently damage Obama with the charge of Anti-Semitism - THE NEOCON AMERICAN FUCKING SPECTATOR -I not only want this to end immediately, I want the Clintons publicly called on to leave the Democratic party. Of course, it's their right to remain, and it's their right to run. But it's also our right to condemn them as sleazy, destructive, selfish, power-hungry bastards who deserve the same end Nixon got - being ostracized and disparaged for the rest of their lives.

The Clintons are scum.

My mother, a 65 year old feminist and an ardent Clinton supporter (she drank so much Kool-Aid that she was offended that the Michigan results weren't counted) now accepts Obama as the nominee. She admits that it's over and is beginning to see how the Clinton "vetting" of Obama is no longer constructive. Certainly, the polls showing McCain moving ahead and Richardson's endorsement got her attention.

My sense is that Clinton's support must be softening. Internal polls must be indicating this trend. The erosion must be real enough that it emboldened Harry Reid to state publically that the party leadership will prevail upon her to quit.

The question is whether she will continue on with only limited support from the populace. My guess is that she will.

Hillary Clinton: Always the Victim of Some Vast [insert wing direction] Wing Conspiracy since 1992.

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You know, there was a big surge in registration here in Pennsylvania.

There was! It was the Operation Chaos advocated by Rush Limbaugh encouraging Republican voters to switch parties and vote Dem (specifically for Hillary). This is vote fraud. Plain and simple. None of these "newly registered repubs for Hillary" people are going to support her in the GE.

But she does not care and actively seeks out right wing nutcases to push her talking points. I am vividly reminded of Scarlett O'Hara - "I won't think about that now. I'll think about that tomorrow" line.

Another favorite line is when Melanie scolds her for doing business with the yankees who robbed and murdered them.
Scarlett says "I know what people are saying about me and I don't care. I am going to make friends with the yankee carpetbaggers and I am going to beat them at their own game."

Eeerie isn't it?

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Of course Obama wants to shut this campaign down, everyone knows that Barack Obama blocked revotes in Florida and Michigan. Now he is hoping to disenfranchise all the remaining states as well.
The Politics of Nope!

O O! And you know what? After he is elected, he is going to dissolve Congress and have himself crowned emperor.

And then he's going to make Rev. Wright his First Officer for Life and he's going to make us all sit and listen to Wright's outrageous statements for the next 10 years, or until we melt, whichever comes first.

O O! I also heard that Obama's an insect being from the planet OowOOt!

Of course, it is not a close race. Such is only a delusion in HRC's mind.

GO HILLARY! IN IT TO WIN!

wow, scanning these comments it's like walking into barack vader's death star. so much negativity! hope and change indeed!

Barack Vader...

Is that a black thing?

Or does that make Hillary the Emperor?

I'm not sure which way to go with it, really.

Look, here's the crux of this tired argument your making, the one Hillary supporters always make when faced with bad news:

Obama supporters want "Hope and Change" and yet they behave like Hillary supporters. Somewhat true, so fine. But when, as we saw early in the race, Obama supporters behave more civilly, they are naive children.

I'm okay with being damned both ways. But come up with something new, please. Go ahead. Make something up if you have to. Hillary would.

When I read GO HILLARY! IN IT TO WIN!, my first reaction was that the poster was trying to be funny, snarky.


Then I realized just how funny it all was.

GO HILLARY!IN IT TO WIN!

Can you explian how?

Think...hard...

with the superdelegates, kash79. with the superdelegates.

how can obama secure the nomination? with the superdelegates kash 79. with the superdelegates.

you forget there are two sides to the coin.

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So you are arguing that the Supers endorsing the results of the primaries is the same as them overturning the result of the primaries?

okee

You left out something in your slogan. Can you say what it is ?

This is NOT a question of what Obama, or Clinton, supporters WANT to happen.

It is a question of MATH.

Taking the Politico analysis of the delegate count for gospel for the moment (and I have not read any persuasive refutation of this analysis, anywhere), the point is: Clinton CANNOT WIN THE NOMINATION WITHOUT THE SUPERDELEGATES, and winning by that route (i.e. thwarting the "popular" will in caucuses and primaries) will so alienate segments of the Democratic Party--notably the can't-win-without African American segment--as to make winning the general election impossible.

Therefore, insofar as Clinton's effort has already failed short of a cataclysm for the party overall, she ought to shut down the primary in order to promote party victory in November. If she will not or cannot, do this then the party (leaders, elders, superdelegates) needs to exert ledership and shut it down before she runs the whole damn election into the ground.

It's the MATH--the caucuses and primaries that have already taken place--not the wishes of Obama supporters or Clinton supporters or anyone else!

Her failure to recognize these FACTS underscores the strong suspicion that this is now, and always has been, all about Hillary Clinton's personal ambition, nothing else.

Well Obama and his team may not be saying it- but I've said it and I will say it again. It's OVER. There is no way the superdelegates are going to award the nominee to anyone other than the one with the most elected delegates. Hillary can't catch Obama.

I don't blame Hillary for continuing on until the end. But if she takes the "Tonya Harding" route, she will only hurt herself in the end.

Its over!

Once again, Hillary blurs the facts. I think we'd like to see the attempt to break the DNC rules end. And the threat of calling the election illegitimate end.

It's fair to want to end an attempt to corrupt the process.

Does she really think she has a chance at winning the nomination? It looks more like she is running for president in 2012.

Well DUH Billary!

The Democratic Party wants to shut you down

The only good reason to drag it out this long is if Hill had a dramatically different policy for Iraq, health care, the environment. She doesn't.

Her only claim on the WH is she helped Bill run the place 10-15 years ago. Fine. You've had your time at center stage. Let the next generation build on that.

The GOP is perennially out of kilter. But at least they're not nominating Nancy Reagan.

Of course we want to shut down this race. Just look at what it's doing to the party. Doesn't Hillary realize that?!

muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

In the Gallop poll that has Clinton supporters supporting McCain as a revenge vote, I say go right ahead. It's your vote. Do what you want with it. You're probably Republicans anyway. Isn't Hillary?

Obama is the only one who will get my vote so let the best man win (;-D) I'm going to vote my conscience. I will not vote for Clinton or McCain because they advocated this war that so many Clinton supporters detested.

So if I had to vote for Clinton should she get the nomination, I will not vote for her or McCain. There's no revenge vote. I just can't vote for someone who used a political calculus for an illegal occupation of a country that did not attack us.

She said fight till the end. She means what she says.

No, not everybody. Just a few "rotten apples" in the barrel. You know, Arianna, Josh, Markos, etc. etc.

. . . Lewis, Richardson, probably Cantwell . . . etc., etc.

I predict that superdelegates will begin to tip the scales toward Obama over the next couple of weeks.

Hence Reid's cryptic "It will be done" comment.

who's a whore to be choosy

Yep, you're a fine one to talk, JohnMcCSF!

You don't even seem to know David Brooks is a conservative.

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My wife and I both think Hillary Clinton is having serious health problems right now. We both noticed that she no longer looks healthy. And, my wife is a die hard Clinton supporter, no matter what she does. Either the hard campaign grind is getting her down, she is sick - the flu or something, or it is an emotional problem. Think of how grueling this has to be for her, when she had no doubts at all that she would be the second President Clinton in 2009.

Well, cry me a river.

I agree that she really did not look well at her last presser. I don't say that gleefully, btw, even though I support Obama.

I am not a member of any organized party--I am a Democrat. Author: Will Rogers

You may not get a Dem President for 08. Perhaps you should ALL concentrate on making sure you get DEM Senate and Congressional seats won in November?

Just a thought.

Damn right BITCH!

We need shut your campaign down, and shut you the fuck up!

You are destroying my pary, our future, and our country!

Jesus, can we discuss this civilly?

Just take solace in the fact that Obama will win the nomination.

All these attacks by Clinton HELPS Obama. He becomes the rational one, he becomes teflon.

I know the fear here is that somehow Clinton bashing Obama helps McCain...

I'm not sure about that. I have to wonder if Independents are looking at this going, "Wow, if Obama can withstand this, he can withstand anything!"

Your campaign is already shut down, Clinton. You're the only one who doesn't seem to realize it.

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Adding on to what hoppycalif2 said (12:54pm), gaining the presidency has been such a huge part of HRC's life for so many years, it's become who she is. It's her identity, the sum total of where she's aimed herself since she entered politics. Which is why she's fighting so hard, even finding an ally in a former enemy, Richard Mellon Scaife.

So, for her to give up will take more than a decision within her own circle.

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Perhaps Al Gore should talk to her. After all, he had to give up the idea of being President and he actually was elected to the position.

The Clintons have been playing the victim game for a long time. What seems obvious now, is that they were so skilled at rallying the troops during the whole Monica thing, that most Dems (myself included) didn't realize they were being manipulated. That drama, was the central point of their existence.

But this time, they've run up a against a candidate who wins people over, through inspiration, honesty and clarity. The Clintons are teenagers, whereas Obama is the adult.

Obama should not be the one shutting this down

the DNC leadership should be stepping in to stop this

I'm with you, Mary Anne--as far as I've seen, the VAST majority of the vitriol in this campaign (this site is certainly a good example) comes from Sen. Obama's supporters, and I've said on multiple occasions that if I were voting based merely on one candidate's supporters over the other, it would be a cold day in hell before I voted for Sen. Obama. However, I'm more concerned with a Dem winning in Nov., so I will vote for whomever is the nominee.

A lot of the hatred for the Clintons appears to me to be one of two things: (1) people who've been fooled by the Republicans for the past 16 years, and (2) misogyny. Many of Sen. Obama's supporters remind me of Stokely Carmichael saying that women's proper place in the civil rights movement was prone.

I will also never vote for McCain, but you can see by the polling that came out today that a lot of Dems and independents don't feel the same way I do. I continue to fear that if Sen. Obama is nominated, Sen. McCain will win.

"Many of Sen. Obama's supporters remind me of Stokely Carmichael saying that women's proper place in the civil rights movement was prone."

That's a very telling statement.

Remind me why it was inaccurate to describe her as a monster....

well, if you read the comment above yours, you may see why OBAMA'S SUPPORTERS may be monsters.

what a vile group.

Supporters on all sides are saying meanspirited things. The question isn't whose supporters are monsters, the question is which candidate is a monster.

Let's not pretend we're all stupid. Obama enjoys a small cushion and therefore has been able to hang back somewhat on the direct attacks. Clinton is behind and trying to convince Superdelegates of his unelectability, and therefore has to get more down and dirty. Ergo: she's been more negative than he has.

It doesn't do the discussion any good to pretend that he is being more negative than she is. Our eyeballs, ears, and common sense show otherwise.

Hillary is in full Huckabee mode now.

She's waisting the Democrat party's time.

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Two words: Supreme Court. We can not afford this bullshit.

There is a proposal that would bring in the Super Delegates, AFTER, the last of the states have voted and have them make their decision sooner rather then later. They are going decide anyway. Let's just get it done and move on. We as a nation can not afford a McCain presidency and a conservative Supreme Court.

EVERYONE! needs to get that and do everything they can to make sure OUR candidate wins in November. I have lost all respect for Clinton, but will vote for her in November because that is what is best for my country.

the superdelegates were designed to exercise independent judgment. if you want the supers to reflect the will of the people, then start by asking sen. ted kennedy to retract his support for obama and stand by clinton's campaign, since mass. went for clinton.

but we don't see you all doing that, do we?

Okee, I don't believe for a second that you're a Clinton supporter. You're a conservative troll.

oh, you digress. and yes, i am a conservative troll. now back to answering my original question!

why aren't you pushing obama to give the supers -- those whose respective states went to hillary -- back?

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No because what I expect (meaning that it is what I believe will happen in addition to meaning that it is what I believe to be right) is for the majority of the super delegates to vote with the majority of the pledged delegates. It does not mean that I expect each of them to vote according to the way their constituants voted, though either would result in Obama wining.

She's becoming weak! That's the whole point of these campaigns. It's a test of stamina sometimes and we the people are the judges. It's becoming clear that she's just not fit for the job.


This dicussion is about as civil as a Sunday morning at Trinity. Wright?

Laugh and make jokes and cheap shots all the way to the GE. Then you can hold your nose, vote for the lesser of two evils, and jump in the shower.

Sure, when all the other supers do it too. Bring it on.

Hillary: "He keeps saying he's the inevitable candidate, it's not fair!"

then make up your mind? is hillary really mccain? huckabee? satan?

"You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may tread me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.

This is not the first time you have seen Hillary Clinton seemingly at her wits' end, but she has always risen, always risen, don't forget she has always risen, much to the dismay of her adversaries and the delight of her friends."

- maya angelou on hillary clinton.

thought a lovely poem would quench the foul air nicely. yes, that's much better.

"Why are so many hateing on Obama?"

"Hillary ain't never been called a N...."

I haven't heard anyone hateing on Obama, and I've never heard Hillary called a N....

But, in these posts, she has been called everything except a white woman. Maybe that's the inverse or tne converse, or whatever.

So, Wright was half right, no I've been hearing that he is all Wright.

Hum, wrong is always wrong, except when it's Wright, or never wrong when it's Wright.

I've never argued that supers should make their decision based on what the people in their state do. I think there are other strong reasons for them to support Obama at this point, regardless of how their state primary went.

Several have already gone with Obama, against the primary vote, even Bill Richardson , who was always in favor of following the primary vote.

When asked he said Hillary barely won NM, by 1%.

Of course Obama says a win is a win, and that he has won more states, and American Samoa is just as good a win as CA. go figure

Haven't heard Ted Kennedy's excuse yet, but, I'm sure he will come up with good rational.

Keep the faith, yes we can,or damm right we will

I was around to work for McCarthy and McGovern. I was frustrated and sad then about their losses. But never have I felt the sense of despair I feel today about the future of the democratic party and the rift that the Clintons have caused. I supported Hillary for months. Then the Clinton's behavior became so egregious that I could no longer stomach even watching them. So it was easy to switch allegience to Obama. The sad part is, and many have expressed it here, the Clintons are ripping our party apart.

I feel like the proverbial driver who stops to stare at a car wreck. Only I'm getting to the point that I have to turn away. I can't bear it.

Hillary is a pathological liar! She lied about NAFTA, lied about SCHIPS Program, lied about Bosnia! She lied, lied, lied!

Who in their right mind would vote for this liar to answer a 3:00am phone call! She can't be trusted!

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