Hillary Facing Calls To Drop Out If Tuesday Doesn't Go Well
Pressure is starting to mount on Hillary Clinton — that if she doesn't win overwhelming victories on Tuesday, she should think about dropping out of the race. So said both Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL), a Barack Obama supporter, and the neutral Bill Richardson.
"I hope ultimately she makes an honest appraisal of her chances," Durbin said. "I hope after Tuesday her decision is made on the basis of the unity of the party."
Meanwhile, Bill Richardson said on Face The Nation today that it's important for the party to unify behind a nominee soon, rather than continue to have a negative campaign that will further divide the party for the general election against John McCain.
"I just think the D-Day is Tuesday," said Richardson, who has declined to make an endorsement since his exit from the race. "We have to have a positive campaign after Tuesday. Whoever has the most delegates after Tuesday — a clear lead — should be in my judgment the nominee."















Christ i'll be glad when we don't have to deal with Hillary Clinton anymore.
don't let the door hit you on the way out.
on second thought... yes, do please let that door hit you.
March 3, 2008 12:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why is it that so many Obama supporters are so un-Obama like in their treatment of Hillary. YOU may not like her, but 45% of Democrats do. How can you, as an Obama supporter, possibly be part of the coming together of the nation when you can't even treat an opposition Democrat with a modicum of respect. Obama may speak of changing politics in Washington, but supporters like you are as repulsive as ever. Why don't you step aside, your kind is no longer wanted in political discourse.
March 3, 2008 8:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hm, I disagree. I am an Obama supporter, but I think that Sen Clinton has been a credit to our party overall. I look forward to the point (soon) when Obama will secure the nomination, and at that point I am hoping that the whole party, Clinton supporters included, will close ranks around our nominee. Needless disparagements of Sen Clinton will surely not help us towards that end. We supporters of OBama should be as gracious in victory as our candidate is.
March 3, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
We watched her on "60 Minutes" tonight (Your RORSCHACH piece) and thought that the way she parsed her words leaving an inkling of doubt about Obama's faith was typical Hillary and typically distasteful. It was a reminder of what we liked least about Bill. When he was cornered, he would weasel out with the smallest of white lies. We hope Obama can win a big one on Tuesday to put an end to this kind of campaigning among our own. At the onset of the campaign, we liked Clinton, Edwards and Obama. We still like Edwards and Obama. Clinton, not so much. She and her surrogates have been their own worst enemy.
March 3, 2008 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can understand any candidate being reluctant to drop out at this point, when they have nearly half the delegates needed for the nomination. But, I can't see how a trailing candidate can recover at this point, being over 100 delegates behind. The Democratic Party rules, apportioning delegates roughly proportional to the vote, just make it nearly impossible to recover. If Obama were to make a "Dean Scream" type of "mistake", where the press could reduce him to a figure of ridicule, it might barely be possible for her to recover. I just can't see that happening.
I think the odds are about 60-40 that she drops out Wednesday.
March 3, 2008 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
The more that Hillary and Barack beat each other up, the more ammunition the Goopers will have to use against the eventual nominee.
McCain doesn't have a Gooper rival to give the Dems any ammunition against him.
March 3, 2008 12:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
From Richardson's mouth to God's ear . . .
March 3, 2008 12:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd rather not have God's hear involved. Bush's claim on God's ear is more than enough for me.
March 3, 2008 8:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
The rules are the rules. She's trailing by a ratio of 13-12, with hundreds and hundreds of delegates to be elected, not to mention nearly 800 superdelegates who can do what they want. Calls by a leading Obama supporter like Durbin for Clinton's withdrawal are hardly news. The democratic party is not going to be hurt by a race to the convention, where the delegates will choose the winner. Fair is fair; let the voters decide.
March 3, 2008 1:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
The rules are the rules. She's trailing by a ratio of 13-12, with hundreds and hundreds of delegates to be elected, not to mention nearly 800 superdelegates who can do what they want. Calls by a leading Obama supporter like Durbin for Clinton's withdrawal are hardly news. The democratic party is not going to be hurt by a race to the convention, where the delegates will choose the winner. Fair is fair; let the voters decide.
Posted by RevSykes
Er... 13-12? I think you must be counting supers in there.
In terms of pledged delegates she's down ~155 delegates, or ~7% of pledged delegates awarded to date. That's a very significant gap. To put it in perspective, if Hillary were to win 62% of the delegates from March 4th on, she would just squeak into the convention with an ~80 pledged delegate lead or 2.5%. She wouldn't draw even with Barack until the Indiana and North Carolina primaries in May.
March 3, 2008 2:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Hillary did that, she'd certainly lose my vote.
Yes the Democrats *WILL* be hurt by going to the primary undecided and at each other's throats.
Ultimately, it won't happen. Howard Dean, Richardson, Edwards, Gore... they're going to want to see that this fight is called no later than Mississippi in a few weeks, because the Democrats would be throwing away about $100M if they waited around for yet another 5-6 weeks until Pennsylvania. Far better for that money to be in the main campaign, or be transferred to the DNC, so that Democrats across America can get elected.
The idea of cedeing the Republicans months of Democratic in-fighting for what should be a united, unbelievably well-funded Democratic landslide is stupid AND damaging to everything we believe in. If we want a mandate for healthcare, we need to tone down the rhetoric and start moving to the only good conclusion -- unity.
Hillary will probably accept a deal... presumably becoming either the VP or the first female Senate Majority Leader. Either is good... indeed, the Senate Majority Leader position might be a very good role for her to play, since it gives her a lot of power to shape legislation.
March 3, 2008 6:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
It will be a sight to see her go kicking and screaming.What better way to say Sha Na Na Say Hey Hey GOODBYE!!!Good Ridance to the IRON WITCH!!
March 3, 2008 1:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
dragon, you need to get a grip. There's nothing wrong with Hillary except she got beat by Obama. He's the better candidate IMO and the results will show that. Quit trying to make Hillary into a villain. She has done a good job and endured a hell of a lot. You can't blame her for trying to win.
March 3, 2008 1:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am not making her into a Villian she already is one.Billary has done a masterful Job of Deception!!!Like I said it will be a site to see her go Kicking and screaming out that door.You speak of her trying to WIN does that mean By any means Possible?Any dirty trick to derail her opponent?The Republicans are Gleefully watching this and saying good good let them destroy each other.The longer she continues this fight the better the other side looks.I will be the first one to salute her if she Wins Ohio and Texas by Blowout Margins(ie.20% or more)There is No way in 7734 that she can catch Obama.Also if it even smells of a back room deal to give her the nomination Obamas People will walk out.In any event on March 5 I think I will be sayin Sha Na Na Say Hey Hey GOODBYE!!!Good Ridance to the IRON WITCH!!!
March 3, 2008 3:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why is it that so many Obama supporters are so un-Obama like in their treatment of Hillary. YOU may not like her, but 45% of Democrats do. How can you, as an Obama supporter, possibly be part of the coming together of the nation when you can't even treat an opposition Democrat with a modicum of respect. Obama may speak of changing politics in Washington, but supporters like you are as repulsive as ever. Why don't you step aside, your kind is no longer wanted in political discourse.
March 3, 2008 8:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
to Bushsucks:
Well said. I'm an Obama supporter who cringes when other Obama supporters go after Hillary with comments like Dragon's "iron witch" and worse.
There are things the Clinton campaign has done which I don't like, but overall, Hillary Clinton is a very good senator and would have been a fine President.
I think Obama will be better, but I don't have to vilify Hillary to make that point. We Democrats had a great slate of candidates to choose among.
March 3, 2008 9:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why is it that so many Obama supporters are so un-Obama like in their treatment of Hillary. YOU may not like her, but 45% of Democrats do. How can you, as an Obama supporter, possibly be part of the coming together of the nation when you can't even treat an opposition Democrat with a modicum of respect. Obama may speak of changing politics in Washington, but supporters like you are as repulsive as ever. Why don't you step aside, your kind is no longer wanted in political discourse.
March 3, 2008 8:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
WHERE THE HELL IS THE CANADIAN MEMO STORY ON THIS SITE ....OBAMA DENIES IT ALL WEEK AND NOW A MEMO SHOWS UP PROVING HE LIES ............MSM IS COVERING IT BUT THE BLOGS HAVENT EVEN MENTIONED IT
March 3, 2008 9:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
The fusion of the pro-Obama biased media and the cult money machine of cult leader Obama makes the Democratic nomination process similar to a stuffed ballot box in a banana republic.
American democracy calls for the Democratic nomination process to continue for all the remaining states to have their say and then add the numbers at the Democratic National Convention in Denver, Colorado.
The superdelegates should decide on the most qualified, experienced candidate for the presidency and that would be Hillary Clinton. That's American democracy.
Gov. Richardson should continue to sit on the sidelines and keep his silence.
With the fusion of the pro-Obama biased media and the cult money machine, rational Democrats must support Hillary with frequent contributions for her to make a powerful stand against that fusion.
Hillary Clinton is fighting for future of America; she is the qualified, experienced, visionary leader America needs to make change real and restore America to prosperous times and restore our good standing in the world.
March 3, 2008 1:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Is this an intentional parody of a Clinton supporter?
March 3, 2008 1:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
If it is, it's brilliant.
March 3, 2008 4:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
If it's not, it's creepy.
March 3, 2008 6:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
> the most qualified, experienced candidate for the > presidency and that would be Hillary Clinton.
> That's American democracy.
Crat3,
I don't get it. It's only (American) Democracy
when your candidate is selected? That sounds
like elections in many countries where there is
only name on the ballot (well, count Michigan
among those countries if you must).
Also, if "qualification and experience" is your
criteria, then Bill Richardson is overqualified,
and Dodd and Biden have lots more experience
than any of the remaining candidates.
~ Jess
March 3, 2008 1:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
You demonstrate what I'm afraid of. The Clinton campaign is convincing people such as yourself that Obama is unfit to be President. Her campaign's actions will result in Clinton supporters not voting for Obama in the general election. How many I don't know.
March 3, 2008 2:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
But isn't Governor Richardson one of those influential superdelegates that you Clinton supporters have always insisted should be independent?
If he teams up with Dean, Gore, Edwards, and a large bloc of other superdelegates to decide the race... and if that forces Hillary to concede, isn't that *EXACTLY* how the system is supposed to work?
Aren't they there to prevent bad candidates from taking power?
March 3, 2008 6:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with RevSkyes.
It's an election for goodness sake, a competition. If the party wants to decide nominees early regardless of the will of states that haven't voted, it should change the bloody rules. I want Obama to become the next president of the United States. Let him compete for it. I don't want it handed to him.
Pressuring Clinton to get out - especially publicly, would be disastrous - especially if there is an opportunity now for Florida to have a second chance.
Let the primary continue. The longer it continues, the longer Obama has to introduce and sell himself to all voters (of whatever party) in more states that don't know him. If - and this may be a big if - Obama wins the nomination and decides to take public financing, he can benefit from a longer primary where he can spend gobbles of money and make himself known to voters.
In the end, the more Democrats that are motivated to become involved in the primary, the more Democrats may be inspired to stay involved and vote for President - that includes young voters, which Obama is proving himself capable of pulling into the process.
Obama has only improved the longer he debates, competes and counters Clinton charges. Let him improve more and further sharpen his attacks against Clinton/McCain (who have the same attack points anyway).
Let democracy runs its course, and may the best Dem win.
March 3, 2008 1:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton doesn't have to drop out, and Richardson isn't saying that she has to nor trying to circumvent the competition. As long as she still has a reasonable chance of winning, I agree that she shouldn't drop out.
But Richardson's point is that if Clinton doesn't win overwhelmingly on Tuesday, she won't have a reasonable chance of winning, even with Florida, and so she should drop out for the good of the party. The competition has grown increasingly bitter and divisive. Obama has gained what he needed to from the primary race, and further competition from Clinton will distract his attention and resources away from McCain and the general election.
If Clinton still has a reasonable shot after Tuesday, that's the breaks, and we fight it out until there's a clear winner. But if she doesn't, there is nothing for her to gain and much for Obama to lose by an extended race.
For the record, Clinton is very intelligent, cares about the party, and probably doesn't believe in miracles, so I expect that she will drop out if it's clear that she can't win it.
PS "bloody" rules?
March 3, 2008 1:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to second your thoughts...
Right now, we have two candidates bashing Bush and McCain. They are getting double the airtime; The Republicans aren't getting equal time for any and all future debates (where the candidates essentially agree); Spending is under primary rules, so the candidates' general election funds are still in reserve and there will be no waiting until the convention. And, it's not like the two Democrats are arguing over many substantive issues, it's more like a fine tune of small points, where they basically agree on the larger issue.
As for the concept that Sen. Clinton is providing fodder for Republican attacks, I really doubt that "experience" and "hope" hadn't crossed the mind of GOP strategists before Hillary mentioned the subject.
March 3, 2008 3:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is no possibility for Florida to have "do-overs". It's only offered up by the Republican governor in order to keep Democrats spending hundreds of millions fighting each other, rather than spending it absolutely gutting the Republicans in the upcoming election.
In the end, Obama will get the delegates he needs to win anyway, and the Florida delegates will be seated as a peace gesture. Win-win.
March 3, 2008 6:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
According to today's Zogby 3/3/08 poll, Obama leads Hillary by 3 points in Texas and 2 points in Ohio, this is the first poll that has Obama leading in Ohio. I still bet my money for Obama's win in Texas, and for Hillary winning by a very small margin in Ohio. Hillary wont get the nomination....
March 3, 2008 1:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wrote a blog on this last week (which turned out quite lively):
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/02/on-pulling-out.php
so I won't repeat myself here.
Suffice it to say, it is important to the party and the HRC supports to see HRC decisively defeated. That is the only way they will accept the situation.
The HRC campaign has left themselves no graceful way to exit -- and therefore it will be more painful than necessary for her supporters should HRC be defeated. It will also be far more painful for HRC. But that's her problem.
Let the system play itself out. Obama has the money and time is on his side.
I agree with MsJane except on the notion that this allows Obama to sharpen his skills. It would be better for Obama (and the Dems) to have this over as soon as possible, but it's even more important for Hillary, Bill, and their supporters to understand that the defeat is unconditional and complete.
March 3, 2008 1:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the point is Mute. I really believe the super delegates will break after Tuesday. I think it is all they are waiting for is to see whether she still has a realistic chance. If she does not, and she tries to continue I think we may see a flood of SD support to Obama. If she stands a reasonable chance they will continue to wait it out.
March 3, 2008 2:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
moot M.O.O.T., not "Mute"
Moot as is 'Moot Court', as in no longer of consequence.
Not mute, as in unable to speak, or to have the sound switched off like your TV.
(sorry, but this is one of my language pet peeves. The two words aren't even pronounced the same, you might as well say the point is 'moat')
March 3, 2008 7:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hate intellectual bullies. You understood meaning. A simple sentence like ("I believe the proper word is moot, but many people make that mistake") would suffice.
March 3, 2008 8:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought Bill Clinton, Wolfson and others made this point over the course of the last two weeks. If Tuesday doesn't go well, then she should get out of the race.
March 3, 2008 2:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think Jsmith has a good point, though. Would it not be better for the peace of the Party and the good of the nominee in the GE if the super-delegates switching over next Wednesday decided the nomination rather than public pressure for Clinton to drop out? The latter possibly would make it appear that an injustice was done to her. If she drops out before it is clear to all that the race is over, it might have some of the same bad effect of the much-feared opposite happening and the Clintons' conniving to "steal" the nomination through back-room pressures, blackmails, or deals.
But if enough super-delegates make the decision for her, it removes some of the resentment by making the blame/credit more defuse.
March 3, 2008 2:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Many Barack Obama supporters tout his ability to beat Republican John McCain. Looking at Rasmussen’s comparative polls, however, it looks like Obama’s losing ground.
McCain, however, continues to beat Hillary Clinton, who the Republicans hate more than they hate gay marriage, abortion and Iran. That’s a lot.
March 3, 2008 2:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Those polls are worthless. The election is 8 months away. 8 months ago, Clinton and Giuliani dominated the primary polls.
March 3, 2008 2:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Mrs. Bill Clinton wanted to stay in the raise to debate issues, it could be constructive. But her campaign is dishonest, mean-spirited, and self-centered. She and her attack machine, in their everyone but us is the enemy mode, are trying to do real damage to Obama. She is sowing seeds of distrust and resentment among Democrats that will not heal easily.
Hillary has tried her best, with multiple personas, to win the nomination. The majority of Americans are saying "no thanks." It's not because of evil men, gender bias, media bias, or Bill. It's because voters have looked and listened and don't want Hillary to lead the nation and the world.
If she loves her country and has an ounce of class, or even if she weighs her future in public life, she will bow out soon and graciously.
March 3, 2008 4:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
With all the graciousness of Barack "You're likable enough" Obama, I don't see why she can't figure out she's outmatched with classiness and inevitableness.
And Hillary's only get old women voting for her. Obama's managed to attract smarminess from all walks of life, all colors, all creeds.
If she has any self-respect, she'll drop out before Florida has its second primary.
"Si se puta".
March 3, 2008 4:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
The post above is exactly why we should let the voters figure this out no matter how long it takes. The bitterness of Clinton supporters is very high it seems.
March 3, 2008 6:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
I suggest it might be best for Obama if Hillary stays in the running and keeps slinging mud.
People might want to take a gander at "progressive" sites like MyDD where mudballs against Obama fill the air. Some posters vow they will vote for McCain if Obama is nominated.
Fancy that. Clintonistas will choose the man who would offer another hundred-year war and bends his knee to kiss the rings of the religious fanatics if a reluctant liberal waging a populist campaign wins.
Some of the underground sewage - Obama as a Manchurian candidate or alternatively as an anarchist Weatherman complete with bombs - has more time to be disinfected being bathed in sunlight rather than growing in the dark and dankness that is the wingers' retreat.
Hillary's mud volcanoes have long been reduced to spitballs. She will be gone soon enough.
What a wonderful year this promises to be.
Let the circus continue.
Best, Terry
March 3, 2008 5:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
But she herself said on 60 minutes tonight that she has no intention of dropping out - `her husband didn't get the nomination until June.`...
March 3, 2008 6:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe she should've rejected *AND* denounced the accusations? ;-)
March 3, 2008 6:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
The longer the race goes on, the more mud will be flung, and that doesn't bode well for the general. For that reason, if Hillary doesn't have significant wins in both TX and OH, she should drop out.
It seems her team is lowering the bar so she can continue, and that is detrimental to the party.
Come on, Hillary, care more about November than you do about the Clinton legacy!
March 3, 2008 6:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
If I knew that Obama had this locked up 1,000,000%, I almost would want her to stay in so she spends every penny they have in savings.
: )
March 3, 2008 6:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's the kind of Obam supporter I like. Hateful politics as usual. Way to take the low ground.
March 3, 2008 8:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
WHERE THE HELL IS THE CANADIAN MEMO STORY ON THIS SITE ....OBAMA DENIES IT ALL WEEK AND NOW A MEMO SHOWS UP PROVING HE LIES ............MSM IS COVERING IT BUT THE BLOGS HAVENT EVEN MENTIONED IT
March 3, 2008 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
The most common blindside I have witnessed amongst my fellow Democrats is this assumption that "All we need to do is win 1 more state!" The assumption is Obama will automatically win all of the states that Kerry won, so he just needs to pick off Kansas or Ohio, etc.
Of course, this assumes that John McCain won't pick off any "blue" states. Check out that Rasmussen poll in the upper-right corner of this page. What would McCain winning New Jersey in the fall do to the Democratic calculus? George W. Bush came within a few thousand votes of winning Wisconsin in both 2000 and 2004, so isn't it reasonable to think McCain would have a shot there too?
I get worried when I read Obamamaniacs talking themselves into the notion that he has such strong crossover appeal that he can/will win Georgia in November.
So, to paraphrase a late President, enjoy it while you can, folks.....pretty soon, you won't have Hillary Clinton to kick around anymore. :-)
Oh, and on that note....the GOP created the market on "Blaming Clinton". Pretty much everything bad that has happened in Dubya's years as president gets blamed on Bill Clinton. If Obama loses to John McCain, it'll be because John McCain beat him, not because Hillary Clinton "weakened" him in the primaries.
Obama supporters who talk like that now are only bracing themselves for a loss in November, which is not exactly the way to mentally prepare for victory. This is the biggest prize in all of competition, people. This is the Super Bowl times a thousand. If Obama can't take shots from here until Election Day, he deserves to lose.
March 3, 2008 7:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
The most common blindside I have witnessed amongst my fellow Democrats is this assumption that "All we need to do is win 1 more state!" The assumption is Obama will automatically win all of the states that Kerry won, so he just needs to pick off Kansas or Ohio, etc.
Of course, this assumes that John McCain won't pick off any "blue" states. Check out that Rasmussen poll in the upper-right corner of this page. What would McCain winning New Jersey in the fall do to the Democratic calculus? George W. Bush came within a few thousand votes of winning Wisconsin in both 2000 and 2004, so isn't it reasonable to think McCain would have a shot there too?
I get worried when I read Obamamaniacs talking themselves into the notion that he has such strong crossover appeal that he can/will win Georgia in November.
So, to paraphrase a late President, enjoy it while you can, folks.....pretty soon, you won't have Hillary Clinton to kick around anymore. :-)
Oh, and on that note....the GOP created the market on "Blaming Clinton". Pretty much everything bad that has happened in Dubya's years as president gets blamed on Bill Clinton. If Obama loses to John McCain, it'll be because John McCain beat him, not because Hillary Clinton "weakened" him in the primaries.
Obama supporters who talk like that now are only bracing themselves for a loss in November, which is not exactly the way to mentally prepare for victory. This is the biggest prize in all of competition, people. This is the Super Bowl times a thousand. If Obama can't take shots from here until Election Day, he deserves to lose.
March 3, 2008 7:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's not just about crossover appeal, it's about GOTV operations. Obama blows away McCain in that arena. However, I agree, if people think we'll win Georgia in November...they're dreaming. But even if we make it a race down there, that's resources McCain has to spend there instead of in Wisconsin, NJ, or Virginia. I think if you took a closer look at the actual organization Obama has built, you'd be a little more enthused.
March 3, 2008 7:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mark Addison,
I will spot you New Jersey and take Texas.
Now how does your math work out? :-)
There is no guarantee as to how any election will turn out or there would be no need for elections.
Texas really does seem to be in play if Obama is nominated.
For sure no argument will convince the kind of fanatics that would vote for McCain if Hillary is not nominated. Just as well. I would prefer McCain to Hillary myself.
Best, Terry
March 3, 2008 8:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
HRC should withdraw from the race when Obama has won the number of delegates necessary to attain the nomination on a first vote at the convention.
Until he has won the race by the rules then it seems churlish to ask his opponent to drop out. Until he has won the race by the rules it is stupidity to suggest that the will of the Pennsylvania voters, as just one example, doesn't matter.
Why do Obama fans have such a problem with democracy?
If Obama fans want the race over before the convention then all they need do is convince the super delegates to pledge to their guy.
So get busy Obabots!
And meanwhile stop trying to short circuit our democracy! I should have thought that we all agree there has been much too much of that under Bush.
March 3, 2008 7:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
JTHB, you say Hillary should stay in until Obama wins sufficient delegates based on the rules. Whose rules? Those democratically determined by the states and the Democratic party, or Hillary's rules, re-written anytime something goes against her?
March 3, 2008 7:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well obviously I was referring to the party rules.
Hillary may be generating spin in her favor, as does Obama, but she certainly has not been able to rewrite the rules now has she?
For examnple has anyone, even HRC, put Florida delegates in her column? Well no.
So besides snark do you have any basiz for your comment?
Yours is exactly the sort of corrosive hyperbole that Obabots are constantly charging HRC with.
March 3, 2008 7:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
CNN broadcast a Hillary speech yesterday, where she was trying to be inspirational/charismatic and whip the crowd into a frenzy. It was comic,but her message was not. "What we need in the White House is a FIGHTER," she yelled.
Sorry, Hillary. No we don't The nation wants the Bush-Clinton era of attack and destroy politics to end. We need a LEADER in the White House who can unite the nation again.
It is clear that Hillary cannot do this. She and her supporters are addicted to partisan warfare. The Clintons get attacked because they attack.
If Karl Rove isn't getting paid as an adivisor to Hillary's campaign, he should sue for plagairism, copyright infringement, or patent violation.
Enough of the Bushes and the Clintons. They are the same except of the detail of party registration. Bow out Hillary, and let the nation move into the future.
March 3, 2008 7:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mark Addison, the blind side I see is in analysts who continue the "red state" "blue state" formulas even when it is clear that Obama is re-writing the rules and Bush-Clinton era politics is history. Obama is attracking large numbers of new voters who simply are not part of past patterns, including cell-phone using young people who don't show up in traditional polling.
It is also a fallacy that distrust and criticism of the Clintons is Republican inspired. Many Democrats who had not seen the dishonesty and mean-spiritedness of the Clintons before, have certainly seen it in this campaign, and it is disgusting for those who hold Democratic, or democratic values.
March 3, 2008 7:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
BREAKING: Obama Leads in Final Zogby Poll in OH
On C-SPAN just now.
Leads in OH by just over a point, but rounded to 47/45.
Obama leads in TX by 3.
March 3, 2008 7:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
WHERE THE HELL IS THE CANADIAN MEMO STORY ON THIS SITE ....OBAMA DENIES IT ALL WEEK AND NOW A MEMO SHOWS UP PROVING HE LIES ............MSM IS COVERING IT BUT THE BLOGS HAVENT EVEN MENTIONED IT
March 3, 2008 9:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
If she wants to stay in the race that's her decision. But she has to knock off attacking him all the time, lying about his positions, questioning whether he's competent, etc.
The reason? She's not only potentially damaging support for the likely Dem nominee in the fall (though I honestly don't believe she cares about that at all); but she's potentially damaging herself politically. Listen, if Al Damato - Senator Pothole - could get dumped by NY voters after he went beyond the pale a few too many times, it can happen to her too. Furthermore, even if she has any hopes of one day becoming Senate leader she can kiss it goodbye if she's helped elect President McCain.
Sorry, she has to cut the crap attacking Obama. "Oh, that's just politics" some will say. Well, retribution is politics too. "You fucked over our candidate so we're going to fuck you over" is politics too.
If she wants to stay in and be the new Kucinich that's up to her. But remember, even Kucinich is having a hard time keeping his seat now.
March 3, 2008 7:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Then Obama should also knock off attacking HRC all the time, lying about her positions, questioning whether she's competent, etc.
Oh but I forgot, Obama is special!
March 3, 2008 7:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh please. His attacks have been in reponse to hers. He has a right to defend himself. So does she. But she's running a clearly negative campaign. His speeches are overwhelmingly NOT about her and even then it's about her positions and votes, mainly the Iraq vote. In hers she goes after him extensively, repeatedly and harshly, saying he's unqualified and using the fear tactics of the Bush admin.
He's run a far less negative campaign by any rational measure - even when he was behind. Even a Clinton supporter has to know there's a ton of sleazy crap to be dragged out. He hasn't brought up any of it.
March 3, 2008 8:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fairy tale is not now nor has it ever been a racist slur in America.
Yet Obama's campaign said it was.
I require no other proof of Obama's lying destructive campaign.
Obabots are just like the Bush dead enders. He can do no wrong and everything is some else's fault.
What a bore!
March 3, 2008 8:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
When did Obama question whether she's competent? When? Give me the example please. Quote, date, place. Please.
March 3, 2008 9:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
And one other point.
If Obama wins he is going to need a supportive HRC in the Senate.
Or have you forgotten the hell that Edward Kennedy gave President Carter?
March 3, 2008 7:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well this really sums it up. You've unintentionally defined the real issue for Hillary and her supporters.
Carter was President running for re-election. A sitting president is always the presumed nominee. This may come as a shock to you but Hillary is NOT running for re-election. She was the presumed nominee only by herself and her supporters. And what galls you - and her - is that a clear majority of Democrats didn't agree with you. Democracy's a bitch, ain't it?
You don't have to like it. I wouldn't have liked it if the positions were reversed. But I would have accepted Hillary as the candidate if she'd won a clear majority by now. She hasn't - Obama has - and she, like you, won't accept it. And that is based on nothing but arrogance and selfishness. It certainly isn't based on aspiring to have a unified Democratic party.
March 3, 2008 8:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
And by the way, Obama hasn't run a particularly nasty campaign so there's reason for Hillary to be anything but supportive if he wins.
He hasn't brought up her sleazy stock deals, the 140 pardons her husband sold to the highest bidders, the questionable money he's gotten since leaving office, refusing to release their tax statements, holding back her White House papers, his past cheating and the damage it did to the country and the party, rumors of his continued cheating, her lesbian rumors - shall I go on? None of that has been dragged out by his campaign.
And if he's the president and she chooses to be less than supportive of her own party's president she can kiss her Senatorial ass goodbye. That crap will not last for long.
March 3, 2008 9:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, there are two candidates, one "president" and one former president attacking Sen. Obama. I continue to be impressed with how he handles himself.
I am glad that the primary has lasted this long, because people have longed to feel like they have a say in the primary beyond Iowa and New Hampshire. Seeing record-breaking turnout in the primaries is so heartening, since I'm both a "small-d" democrat and a Democrat.
But at this point, it needs to end. It would be one thing if she could win more delegates, but there aren't many states left to contest. And when Clinton gets out there and "echoes" attacks from John McCain--that's just unacceptable.
March 3, 2008 8:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
MSNBC this morning showed the newest Mason Dixon poll out this morning and it has Hillary up by 12, yes 12 in Ohio and Obama up by 3 in TX...
March 3, 2008 8:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Correction , thats the Suffolk poll not Mason Dixon
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/3/3/62732/81334
March 3, 2008 8:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd love to see Sen. Clinton as Senate Majority Leader, actually committed to helping a President Obama get legislation passed. Perhaps she could also help whip the Democratic leadership in the House into shape. Given this morning's news re the FISA/telecom immunity issue, it seems they could use a spine transplant.
March 3, 2008 8:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know, I am really getting sick of the Hillary supporter excuse for her dirty rovian politics - "He's going to have to face it from the GOP. So he has to show how tough he is against it now."
That reasoning is the same excuse drug dealers give selling to kids. "They're going to get drugs from someone, might as well be me"
It doesn't matter that the GOP slime machine will do it. It is unethical as a democrat for Hillary to do it.
We as democrats have held ourselves to a higher standard. We have been disgusted by the GOP lies and distortion. As have the rest of the country (in case you haven't noticed).
Hillary's behaviour in this campaign goes against everything we as democrats stand for. She cares nothing for party unity or for that matter the unity and reputation of America.
I can hear the GOP now "LOOK even Hillary thinks he is a muslim". It doesnt matter if she waffled. She just couln't leave it at "of course not". There is enough sound byte there to chop up all kinds of great quotes.
Unfortunately, eerily like GWB, she will refuse to see the writing on the wall. A fighter? Absolutely. Judgement? Absolutely NOT!
March 3, 2008 8:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Twelve points in Ohio seems like a bit of an outlier. But even if it's accurate, I'll take that trade -- Clinton wins Ohio, Obama takes Texas. He'll wind up with significantly more delegates, particularly after the caucuses there.
I'm an Obama supporter, but I had no special dislike for Clinton when this campaign started. That has changed now, and it's because of the way she has campaigned. Both candidates have criticized their opponents' positions, which is legitimate. But she's the one who consistently has PERSONALLY attacked him. She's the one whoi has said he is not fit to be commander in chief; he's never said anything similar about her. She's the one who has offered the nudge-nudge-wink-wink innunendos. She's the one who has always found an excuse for losing: caucuses are unfair, there are too many black people in the state, he's spending too much money, I'm picked on because I'm a woman, and on and on.
And let's be honest. If the situation were reversed, if Obama hadn't won an election in a month, if he had never ever held a delegate lead during the whole campaign, everyone -- the Democratic Party, the media, everyone -- would be saying the race is over and pushing Obama to step aside to The Inevitable Nominee. She gets a huge benefit of the doubt because her name is Clinton.
March 3, 2008 8:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fred App, you summed it up brilliantly. Last December, I would have been perfectly happy to vote for Clinton, Edwards or Obama in the GE, whichever one happened to win the nomination. But after seeing the way HRC has run her campaign (or allowed it to be run by Penn), she has lost all of my respect. Her entire campaign has been based on negative attacks on Obama, not selling voters on why she is the better nominee. She's been on endless repeat for months with her "35 years of experience" line, but I have yet to hear ANYONE - Clinton or any of her supporters - elaborate on specifically what that experience is. It seems like just because she has been in the public consciousness for the last 15 years, people swallow the experience line without taking a closer look. No one in the media has hammered her on THAT - and she claims the media are biased against her?? Ludicrous.
March 3, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
WHERE THE HELL IS THE CANADIAN MEMO STORY ON THIS SITE ....OBAMA DENIES IT ALL WEEK AND NOW A MEMO SHOWS UP PROVING HE LIES ............MSM IS COVERING IT BUT THE BLOGS HAVENT EVEN MENTIONED IT
March 3, 2008 9:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's up there...jeez, chill out...now you can go over there and talk about how you hate Obama.
March 3, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am a strong Obama supporter and, yes, want to see him win the presidency, the focused goal of all this campaigning hoopla in the primary and upcoming general election.
But, there is something going on with Obama's candidancy that has equal or greater weight in my mind. How to describe it? For many years there has been an undercurrent not usually directly focused upon beyond rhetoric...... which situation is relevant and important to me beyond the focused goal of winning the presidency. That unfocused undercurrent is the actuality of decades of 'the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer' or 'the powerful maintain power, and the powerless eke by and never win', which the political games always have sustained. The politics of divisiveness, and divisiveness' unquestioned memes and slogans, divisiveness benefits the status quo of the established power centers of both major parties.
Obama is breaking patterns. He is gathering and consolidating the power of the masses to countervail against the entrenched powers, and the establishment's game. He is doing that by being an educator and an effective hope mongerer. He is fueling that movement by being publically financed by the masses, too, which is absolutely a gamechanger.
What he says is very simple: let's bring sunshine into the back room dealing in Washington. Let's work together. Let's change the game, for all our sakes.
Obama is lifting awareness of ordinary citizens and giving them a mechanism through which to practice their new level of awareness and savvy.
It is Obama's ability to be such an educator and organizer of the masses which is the achievement. Obama is offering such a gift, a new way of politics and an awakeness which will endure, whether or not he 'wins' office.
So, from my perspective, when I hear the question about what is best for the party, or what an extended primary might mean, or whether Hillary should drop out, or whether the Republicans will use democratic in-fighting as an advantage, I sort of shrug and consider all those questions less important than the fact that his continuing to be on the stage is, in fact, a continuing upgrade of citizens awareness.
Anyone else notice that Obama uses whatever comes at him as teachable moments? I feel very heartened to notice that Americans are, slowly but surely, again learning how to take stewardship of a process called democracy.
March 3, 2008 9:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good post, should post this as a reader post.
March 3, 2008 10:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I get then impression that many of the virulent anti-Clinton people who post on this site are fairly young and haven't been through many national political campaigns. All this talk about how awful the Clinton campaign has been, how "dirty" & "mean" & "unfair . . ." All I can say is, you people need to get out a bit more, or read some political history, or live another couple of decades. Because, b-b-b-baby, you ain't seen nothin' yet.
Don't start. I voted for Obama in the NY primary.
March 3, 2008 9:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
hehe, I think some of what Obama supporters have seen are seemingly personal attacks against them as people. I've felt a little of that too actually, some of the back-and-forth seems to be focused on the supporters themselves instead of the candidates. I've been no angel in this, I admit, but at least I'm trying to tone down the rhetoric.
But don't start, I have seen a few national campaigns and I'm quite aware of political history. Thomas Jefferson was attacked by his opponents with things that included partisan newspapers saying Jefferson would rape your wives and commit treason against the US. So, in context, I guess this ain't so bad.
March 3, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think that there have been dirtier campaigns than GW's in my 36 years (OK, 24 years of political memory), so I think that anyone in their twenties should have a pretty good sense of dirty politics. Indeed, I think that the distaste for it is in part a reaction to the last couple of elections.
I would suggest one division between Clinton supporters and Obama supporters: the former think that we must fight negative with negative, believing that an optimistic message is naive against the Republican "attack machine" (I have come to hate this cliche); the latter think what we must to respond to negative politics with optimism, believing that this the nation yearns for hope. Obviously, the demographic voting patterns suggest that the former tend to be older than the latter, but keep in mind, those breakdowns are 60%-40% or at most 70%-30%. There are still many pessimistic youngsters and optimistic oldsters.
March 3, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe that the best move the party elders can make at this point is not to ask Clinton to drop out of the race, but rather to make it clear that the party and its superdelegates will support whichever candidate comes to the convention with the most elected delegates.
Clinton can do the math and stay in the race as long as she believes she has a chance to win a majority of these elected delegates. It's not right to ask her to drop out before that point.
She shouldn't, however, continue hoping to win through an insider move at the convention that would surely split the party terribly.
I think the situation would resolve itself very quickly if this were made clear.
March 3, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
For what it's worth, this snipped from NYT:
In other news, have you all seen Josh's post about Hillary supporters demanding that Obama step down if Clinton wins TX and OH? Nuts.
March 3, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink