Hillary Concedes She "Misspoke" On Bosnia Sniper Episode
Hillary has now weighed in on the flap over her statements about coming under sniper fire when visiting Bosnia in 1996 -- and she's conceding that she got it wrong.
She gave an interview to the Philadelphia Daily News editorial board today that was captured by Will Bunch, and here's what she had to say about it:
"Now let me tell you what I can remember, OK -- because what I was told was that we had to land a certain way and move quickly because of the threat of sniper fire. So I misspoke -- I didn't say that in my book or other times but if I said something that made it seem as though there was actual fire -- that's not I was told. I was told we had to land a certain way, we had to have our bulletproof stuff on because of the threat of sniper fire. I was also told that the greeting ceremony had been moved away from the tarmac but that there was this 8-year-old girl and, I can't, I can't rush by her, I've got to at least greet her -- so I made a -- I took her stuff and then I left, Now that's my memory of it."
Hillary's quotes here echo her spokesperson's admission today. Bunch than asked whether this admission should call Hillary's credibility on foreign policy. Hillary's reply:
"No, I went to 80 countries, you know. I gave contemporaneous accounts, I wrote about a lot of this in my book. you know, I think that, a minor blip, you know, if I said something that, you know, I say a lot of things -- millions of words a day -- so if I misspoke, that was just a mistatement."
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Comments (127)
Does she not know we have a video of her landing???
The statement that she said today still doesn't match up with the video.
March 24, 2008 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, how strange. Is she just compulsive?
March 24, 2008 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
It boggles the mind... truly. puh-effing-lease.
Shorter Hillary "Despite the gunfire raining down on all sides, Sinbad clutching his wounded leg, and Cheryl Crow using her guitar for cover, I just could NOT bring myself to go past the Bosnian child, as you know, I love the children *so* much I had to stay, despite the clear and present danger to my life."
The absurdity of this whole thing is simply... just... just.... sadlfkjsadflkjsdf
March 24, 2008 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's an excellent question. She tries to split the difference and make it sound like she was told to rush to the cars, but then there was "this 8-year-old girl and, I can't, I can't rush by her, I've got to at least greet her -- so I made a -- I took her stuff and then I left". So at risk to her own life because of the danger of sniper fire, she didn't rush to the cars as she was told to do, she stopped for the little girl and "took her stuff". Touching.
Except that the video shows her strolling along, with Chelsea right behind her, and so on.
March 24, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
BINGO!
Split the difference. That is what she is doing in order to put this escalating fire out. She is splitting the difference. What else is splitting the difference? Triangulation.
Think on this. This is who she is politically. Run into a problem (albeit in this case one totally of her own making) then try to triangulate your way form where you are dead in the water, without admitting you fucked up.
This is what the Clinton's do politically. This is what gets you shit DLC policies, gets you Iraq war authorization votes, etc. etc. Where truth and real consequences take a back seat to media and political CW narratives and whatever spin gets you by.
March 24, 2008 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oops, she did it again!
Britney/Clinton '08!!!!!!!!!!!!
March 24, 2008 11:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice attempt at walking back her outright lie, but failed.
WHo gives a shit what she "was told" about how they had to land. She said they had to run into buildings because of sniper fire and that a greeting ceremony was called off because of sniper fire. None of which was true. So she remembers what she claims she was told before landing but not what actually occurred?
So let's lie some more about being caught in a lie.
Pathetic.
March 24, 2008 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
anyone else find her dismissal of the 8yr old girl on the tarmac a bit harsh?
March 24, 2008 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely. Plus it's obvious in the video of the actual event that they are not hurrying in the least.
It's tricky to recover from this tall tale.
Memories, memories.....
I wouldn forgive her if she hadn't used her tale as evidence of her superior foreign policy experience. There is no there there.
March 24, 2008 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not at all. It just Hillary being Hillary. That is the way she dismisses all small things that are of no further use to her, such as caucus states that she has lost, or voters that supported her in States where she has lost. You will not see Hillary wasting time on TV, on election nights thanking those who came out vote for her in the places that she has lost.
March 24, 2008 7:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
This whole episode speaks volumes about what we can expect with a clinton third term. They will be lying about everything and then circling around to try to rationalize the lie. They will be wasting all of their time screwing around again with this kind of nonsense, which basically exemplifies what went on during the 1st two terms of the clintons. No thank you.
Buchanan, who I usually can't stand, had a very valid point. Why lie about this? Why? It makes no sense and is such a non-issue. All it does is remind people that the clintons have zero credibility and you can't believe anything they say. (My editorializing, like greg).
I really wish they would just go away. I am soooooo tired of the clintonian parsing and bs. It's truly old. I think an obama v. mccain general election contest will actually be refreshing and issue driven. What a shock. For the first time in my life I will actually witness an issue driven campaign.
March 24, 2008 7:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand why she felt it necessary to tell that story in the first place. What kind of foreign policy experience is making one landing on a war zone under fire? How does that equate to: I'm the best choice for CIC?
When it comes down to it, McCain really didn't see much combat, either. He was shot down very early in his career and spent the war in a prison. He definitely gave his all for his country in that prison, but that's not the same thing as being in combat.
But really, what difference does being in combat make vis-a-vis who is better at foreign policy? Since when does being shot at make you smarter?
So what is the deal with this nonsense anyway? Are military people necessarily better at foreign policy? I don't think so and I don't know why anyone thinks it matters that Hilary got shot at or Hilary didn't. It has no bearing on her supposed experience.
If this is what she meant by being better able to handle the position of CIC - well, lord help us all.
March 24, 2008 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg:
You like to editorialize certain comments and not others. I'm going to hold my fire on this one, because I'd like to see if you are going to pull at the obvious string in her statements. She didn't misspeak, she lied. And she lied in her statement above.
March 24, 2008 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!
March 24, 2008 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm even more optimistic that she'll expand on her newfound ability to admit mistakes, and admit that her vote to authorize military force against Iraq, and her vote for Kyl-Lieberman, were just "misvotes", and, you know, she votes on lots of things, so, you know, a couple of misvotes is just a minor blip.
March 24, 2008 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Once again,
Lets look at the timeline...
Sinbad's comments to the Washington Post on March 10th, calling into question Hillary's earlier accounts of the plane trip, created a ruckus as soon as they were published, and news of them spread throughout the news media and blogoshere almost immediately.
The Clinton campaign HAD to be aware of the new-found-doubt of Hillary's version of events, that was raised by the Sinbad story
From this point, THEY HAD SEVEN DAYS before Hillary Clinton's March 17th speech at George Washington University to LOOK INTO THE RECORDS of the flight and the landing ceremonies, both their own and those of news reports, AND CORRECT Clinton's highly erroneous earlier accounts.
But what did they do? Instead, they choose to not only stick with her original story, but actually ramped up its details.
100 REASONS NOT TO VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON
March 24, 2008 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
This predicament Hillary finds herself in really points up the limitations of her attempts to duplicate McCain's national security credentials. If she wasn't so intent on trying to triangulate her way towards McCain and away from Obama, she could make the obvious and reasonable argument that both she and Obama are qualified to be CinC. But this attempt of hers to create a contrast where none exists, to compete solely within the terms defined by McCain's experience, this is what gets her into these logical contortions of common sense that find her being soundly refuted by a comedian (albeit a pretty sharp one).
March 24, 2008 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's the thing. She can't out-McCain McCain on foreign policy CinC crap. That is unless she calls for an immediate bombing of Iran. The 'running from sniper fire', even if true, would not impress those who equate threatening Iran with strength.
March 24, 2008 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
The one thing that awful about this: There's just no way to parse this. It is just so obviously a lie. And it is so thoroughly blatant a lie that any attempt to parse or correct it only further emphasizes that it was a lie.
March 24, 2008 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
But she misrepresents what happened again:
She implies, and even seems about to say, that she was rushing to safety but decided to stop when she saw this girl. But the video shows that they were walking quite calmly, waving to people and smiling, that she greeted other people before and after the 8-year old girl and that she listened to the poem; she didn't just "take her stuff and leave." It would be believable that that was her memory of it except that she has no doubt seen the video that belies the memory so the fact that she is repeating the memory instead of the facts is suspicious.
March 24, 2008 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, I can't help myself:
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/03/24/couricandco/entry3962828.shtml
Can someone cue the video? I want to see which one of these accounts is accurate. Which one is misspeaking...
March 24, 2008 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF7Y
March 24, 2008 7:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
How's that David Geffen quote that was one of the campaign's earliest bullshit scandals sound now?
March 24, 2008 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
COJones,
What you and I think is of no consequence. We're from flyover country, not the states that matter.
Never mind that state-level races Out West have been a virtual test lab for ass-kicking Blue over Red victories in the most unlikely places.
March 24, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am an Obama supporter, but Hillary had me fooled. I actually believed her story. I did not see any of usual tells that people have when they are lying. I would hate to play poker against her. She is actually a far better liar than Bill is. We all knew he was lying about Monica, and several other things. This the first time that Hillary has been caught, but I actually had believed her. She is really a perfect liar, so God only knows how many more crocks of shite she has fed to us.
March 24, 2008 7:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's not hurt a little girl's feeling by getting everyone to safety first. It is much better to risk her life by doing the photo op on the tarmac in the midst of sniper fire.
Now that is the judgment and presidential leadership I want in the next commander in chief.
Umm... How is this suppose to improve the situation for Hillary again? I'm confused.
March 24, 2008 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Clintons do seem to have a pathology. If Hillary had just stayed true to herself. If she had been that champion health care needed in the Senate. If she had partnered with real liberals like Wellstone or Harkin on health issues. If she had voted her humanity on Iraq and prevented the needless deaths of 100,000 Iraqis. If she had just stayed the course with saving the village and saving all the children in the village, she'd be winning the nomination and she'd win the election.
Instead, she sold her soul to be a faux CIC.
March 24, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Misspoke. She kills me. This is the winning argument? She misremembered because of what she was told? And what she was told made her conjure up images of dodging incoming sniper fire while hurrying to an awaiting car?
Man. It's gold, Jerry! Gold I tell you!
March 24, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
She is delusional... We're screwed if she steals the nomination.
March 24, 2008 7:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
"if I said something that made it seem as though there was actual fire"
IF!!!
God!!
Why can't a clinton just own up and say, I was wrong. I screwed up?!
They always, always, always, parse with, "if i said something you misinterpreted" or "if you took it the wrong way" or "if i said something that wasn't true".
who the f*#$ needs four or eight more years of this?
March 24, 2008 7:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way, passing this off as a simple misunderstanding is not "conceding", it's obfuscation. It's lying. Still.
March 24, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just watch them spin this into something to benefit their campaign. I don't know how, but wait for it... wait for it...
March 24, 2008 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's so against her grain to admit error, but she almost seems to be managing for a few lines, but then reverts to form: ". . . so if I misspoke, that was just a misstatement."
March 24, 2008 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama cannot win PA by pointing out Clinton's lies. Yes, he can win some points by calling out her dishonesty and hypocracy. But that's not enough.
Obama needs to connect on a practical level with PA. Not high-minded talk of unity or a more perfect union. But rather day-to-day economic concerns and worries. He needs to show that he has a grasp of the issues and some detailed solution plans. He needs to match Hillary on points.
He needs to connect emotionally with the working class male, ehtir fear, burden, and desire to provide for their wives and children. He needs to sound like one of them, not an Ivy Leaguer professor combo.
If Obama can win a majority of male in PA, he could win PA. It's that simple. It would put an end to the electability argument and fear that Hillary has been spreading, quite effectively I must say.
The big state argument is not convincing until PA, IN, NC, all turned Hillary. A slim popular vote majority and a few tens of pledged delegates wouldn't cut it among SDs.
No more talk about race. Focus on putting food on the table and getting sick children healthcare. Talk about social security and prescription drug benefits.
No more NAFTA talk, kitchen-sink talk, Iraq vote talk. That don't connect with working class males. That should have been painfully clear from OH.
Obama 08!
March 24, 2008 7:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I vote for more of this!
A word of advice, honsing: stay away from this site!
I used to embody the goal of focusing the conversation toward the most valuable ends.
I no longer have the energy.
Gratuitous comment-brawling has reduced me to a cynical malcontent with a great deal of excess frustration and a big-ass chip on my shoulder.
Your contribution is so much more valuable. Get out while you still can!!
March 24, 2008 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
From your mouth to Plouffe's ears!!
March 24, 2008 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
And the next time that she lies about this I hope a reporter asks her the following:
Ok, I understand that you might misremember, well senator clinton on how many other occasions did you fly into a country and land under threat of sniper fire?
On how many other occasions did you have to sit on flak jackets while you landed?
On how many other occasions did you have to run off the runway into waiting cars due to a threat of sniper fire or any other threat?
The answer for all would be zero.
You would remember vividly such an event, right?
Of course, of course.
Well then how did you get bosnia sooo wrong?
Silence or cackle or whatever.
I really wish reporters would do their job. They know the clintons lie. Trap them with their lies and make them out to be the liars that they are. Do your jobs for pete's sake.
March 24, 2008 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now what's more damning: being unable to reject the pastor who introduced you to Christianity, or being unable to tell the truth about a recorded event, even when presented with said recording?
March 24, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's more damning, being an authentic Christian or a phoney Commander in Chief?
March 24, 2008 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
She "misspeaks" quite a bit. Let's see, Bosnia, NAFTA, FMLA, SCHIP, Rwanda, Northern Ireland, Kosovo, and her legislative record...pretty much everything her campaign is based on. A lot of misspeaks:
http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/search/label/Mythbusting
March 24, 2008 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
freaktown,
I think you decoded the riddle of how Hillary got in this most unnecessary mess. She can't admit a lie and feels the need to cover it up with an even bigger lie. Rinse. Repeat.
What I think started out as a little inaccurate but forgivable resume padding has turned in the whopper we are trying to digest now. The lie has gotten so big that now she simply can't undo it.
Kinda of reminds you of her Iraq vote doesn't it?
Hmm... A definite pattern is emerging.
March 24, 2008 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, reminds me a lot more of Nixon. As do her thing about being secretive, the tight clique of yes men (and women) who've been with her for years that you've never heard of, the vindictive streak of her and all the people around her, the one-way loyalty (all up, no down), and the self-pity. Notwithstanding Josh's insistance that there's not enough difference between her and Obama to justify all the vitriol their supporters throw at each other, it really does worry me.
March 24, 2008 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
*I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread, this is the right one! Sorry!
Someone at Kos referred to Hillary's Bosnia story as "WhopperGate", and they linked to this picture.
Now that is funny!
I hope the tags are right, new to that here.
March 25, 2008 1:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary Has Crossed The Threshold for Commander In Chief of Imaginary Brave Deeds!!!!!
Ducking Sniper Fire with her Pantsuit on Fire, Pantsuit on Fire. Ducking Sniper Fire with her Pantsuit on Fire, Pantsuit on Fire. Run Hillary run, something has set your Pantsuit on Fire!!!!!
March 24, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
She is so full of shit. I can see, but not agree with, arguments that Obama can't win because white people won't vote for him, or that he can't possibly do all he says, or that he is just a dreamer, but there really is no way you can say Obama is full of shit.
Clinton is totally full of shit. Sorry, no more full of shit lying assholes for president. Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt.
Hillary, please, just sit the fuck down.
March 24, 2008 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still waiting to see how much traction this gains. Why do people loathe the idea of calling somebody on their lies? We've gotten so used to it over the last 8 years.
To me this is huge. We don't know how a presidential candidate will act in all situations. We only have their character from which to derive clues as to how they might act. Blatently lying to the American public in a planned speach - not some off the cuff remarks - says a lot about her character. In that regard, I think Wright is fair game for analysis...what can we discern about Obama's character from this exercise? I say he passes after all the heat he has gone through. Will the media put Hillary through a similar character test?
March 24, 2008 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tuzula Tess
No do-overs on the Commander-in-Chief test
March 24, 2008 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone going to defend her on this one? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
March 24, 2008 7:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's 3 AM and something is going on in the world. The phone is ringing in the White House. And the woman answering it tells the greatest stories!
March 24, 2008 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
The GOP is gonna LOVE this in October. They don't even have to make their own Switboat ads. Hillary has made the ads for them.
I hope the Superdelegates are paying attention. She's caught redhanded in a total lie, and ends up a mockery. Sort of like Dukakis in the tank. She is toast.
March 24, 2008 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can only hope there's a CNN reporter out there trying to track down that girl from the tarmac.
March 24, 2008 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is easy to understand how this could happen while speaking 'millions' of words per day (or more than one word every 0.86s for 24 hours straight).
March 24, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
When Hillary Clinton spoke in Arizona before Super Tuesday, she was clocked at speaking 129 words per minute.
I know the Clinton campaign is a fan of creative math, but lets go the old fashioned way for a moment.
129 words * 60 minutes/hour = 7740 words/hour
7740 words/hour * 24 hours/day = 185,760 words/day
Hillary Clinton would have to speak non-stop for a little under 5 and a half days to speak one million words (5.38 days = 999,388.8 words)let alone millionS of words...
How often does someone make a misstatement when correcting a misstatement?
March 24, 2008 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
But remember, in Hillary's world, words don't matter. That's why it's OK to mis-speak, because it doesn't matter.
March 24, 2008 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK. I just watched her March 17th claim again.
Here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c
Check out the part where she is asked about what Sinbad said. She tried to convince the reporter that Sinbad was not to be believed because he is a comedian. She stressed in repeatably, in a effort to persuade the press that Sinbad was just joking when he said that he did not remember any sniper fire. She then went on to describe in detail her big lie about ducking and running.
Something that I have not heard anyone point out: There have been claims made that their was a fear of snipers in the surrounding area.
Take a look at how First Lady Hillary is dressed as she walks calmly off the plane and over to the little girl.
No Flak jacket, armor, or Helmet on, and also no security team surrounding her to shield her from any potential sniper fire. That means that there was no fear of any attack period. It is all a great big lie from start to finish, and it has all been rehearsed. This was a carefully concocted story to elevate Hillary into a fearless warrior status who would not flinch when an imaginary red phone rang in the middle of the imaginary night.
March 24, 2008 8:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Stop pointing to the empresses clothes and saying that. Think of the children if such immodest attire were pointed out.
March 24, 2008 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
MILLIONS of words a day? MILLIONS of words a day? I'm sorry, but that is the most ridiculous thing I have heard coming out of a campaign in quite some time, and I include all of Mark Penn's statements in there. I say millions of words a day so not all of them can be right??? But, it's okay, MOST of them are?
I'm sorry, but words matter.
Say you misremembered. Say you lost the hard drive. But, "millions of words a day?" What kind of an excuse is that?
March 24, 2008 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
But don't you see,just a few words that are lies (be they 16 words about yellowcake uranium purchases by Iraq, to running for cover form snipers) that is an extraordinarily low failure rate in truth wordage.
0.000016%
Or rather:
0.999984% truth.
See, who cares if they are lies, some of which lead to 4,000 American soldier deaths, billions of dollars wasted, millions of Iraqis killed, injured, uprooted, etc.
(sigh)
March 24, 2008 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Has it occurred to anyone else that she's taking advantage of the MSM's collective sense of guilt over calling Gore a liar when he wasn't and getting Bush elected and uncounted thousands killed? They're so gun-shy about calling anyone a liar this cycle that the refs are giving a lot more leeway. At least they are to her.
"Millions." A million words a day would be almost 278 words a second if you talked 24 hours a day. Even real New Yorkers can't talk that fast. If Gore had said something like that, they would have crucified him. (Though they would have given Bush a pass.)
March 24, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Serial exaggerator ring a bell?
Someone should compile a list..
Oh..Olbermann just did. Too bad Sargent was tied up on that conference call with Wolfson
March 24, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK. I just watched her March 17th claim again.
Here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c
Check out the part where she is asked about what Sinbad said. She tried to convince the reporter that Sinbad was not to be believed because he is a comedian. She stressed in repeatably, in a effort to persuade the press that Sinbad was just joking when he said that he did not remember any sniper fire. She then went on to describe in detail her big lie about ducking and running.
Something that I have not heard anyone point out: There have been claims made that there was a fear of snipers in the surrounding area.
Take a look at how First Lady Hillary is dressed as she walks calmly off the plane and over to the little girl.
No Flak jacket, armor, or Helmet on, and also no security team surrounding her to shield her from any potential sniper fire. That means that there was no fear of any attack period. It is all a great big lie from start to finish, and it has all been rehearsed. This was a carefully concocted story to elevate Hillary into a fearless warrior status who would not flinch when an imaginary red phone rang in the middle of the imaginary night.
Pay special attention to who is walking behind Hillary as she walks away from the plane. You will see a press person walking behind Hillary with a long boom microphone which the person is struggling to move along.
Does anyone in their right mind actually believe that if there was any fear of any kind of hostile fire that the Hillary entourage would have been deplaned in that sitting duck manner, without a shred of protection around her. She is just telling a carefully crafted line of Bullshit.
March 24, 2008 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
KimmerDC is right,
The correct rate of speech would have to be 1 word every 0.086 seconds.
My earlier calculation must have been a misstatement.
March 24, 2008 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is the problem with bold-faced lies, err um... misstatements - they are hard to weasel out of when caught.
What really gets me on all of this is that there wasn't much reason for her to embellish. She is like a compulsive liar, lying for no reason. Yeah, cause we need more of that in the White House. The last 16 years hasn't been enough.
March 24, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is the gold buried in this story.
The last poll had her at
40 something % trustworthy
53% UNtrustworthy.
If you are an Obama fan (that's me), then you have to hope this will drive that number definitely higher, as it is a blatant lie.
Conversely, if you are a Hillary supporter, you see that Untrustworthy number and you figure that this kind of story is built in to that number already and it won't budge it any higher.
To use an inexact analogy, we already knew Bill's "bimbo problem" so any new allegation was already factored into our mental calculus.
That is the best case scenario for Clinton folks in this case.
Perhaps this is a good time for some Obama surrogate to bring up that Untrustworthy number in the poll to put a nice exclamation point on this episode.
March 24, 2008 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
As Hillary says she visited 80 countries or so and has trouble remembering the exact details. Just to clarify the issue how many countries has Obama visited? None I suppose. It seems to me the whole issue is being unfairly twisted by Obama supporters, there clearly was a threat of sniper fire and attacks, there was a genocide going on there at the time.
If it had been Obama on the plane I imagine his supporters would be saying there might have been far more danger, and how much more he loves children than the monster Hillary. They would have listed every kind of weapon the Serbs were using and where, and marked on a map how close it was to the airport, where the soldiers were and how all of this could have been waiting for him.
Really the whole issue is just breathtaking in its bias and unfairness, and I can see Obama as a well qualified candidate. Why not just admit Obama supporters will grasp at any distortion and negative campaigning for him? Hillary still has nearly half the delegates and would likely have clinched the nomination if it wasn't for all the negative media and bloggers against her.
I would like to see someone make an analysis of all the pro Hillary and pro Obama posts by bloggers, it must be 99% Obama's way. It makes it very difficult for people to make up their mind fairly, the distortions are worse than anything Rove could dream up. Does Hillary get any credit for flying into a war zone with very substantial threats of snipers and missiles while Obama was probably sitting on his butt in a Harvard cafe at the time? Why didn't he join the army if his supporters are intent on turning Hillary into a chickenhawk now? Did he have other priorities?
Maybe the constant negativity by Obama supporters and bloggers is backfiring on him, has anyone considered this? It's impossible to read anything fair about Hillary in blogs, left or right. A lot of people probably see this as like the right wing attacks in the 90's and that Obama is no better than Gingrich in his tactics. I certainly don't think he is any more honest and fair than the Republicans were, since he fails to protest against his negativity and uses his aides to keep it going.
People say Hillary lost a lot of votes by her and Bill going negative. Isn't Obama losing votes with all this negativity? If I was a Hillary supporter I would be grossly offended by all this slander on her for not encountering enough sniper bullets as the Secret Service no doubt warned her might be there. If she had run across the airfield Obama supporters would be saying she was cowardly or staging it for the cameras with no snipers. If she didn't run then she is lying about the very real dangers. How many people on this forum remember exactly what they were doping on that day? No one.
I think Obama is a good talented candidate, but I seriously wonder that anyone who is behind the most negative Democratic campaign in history deserves the nomination. And don't try and tell me that he doesn't know about this latest Hillary slander and approves of it. The only good thing is he may be an even dirtier politician than Rove and this might help him when they start the swiftboating.
March 24, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow are you missing the point.
How many countries she visited vs. Obama is a totally meaningless argument which has NO bearing on her flat-out LYING and being caught doing so with video evidence.
How many other countries has either Clinton lived in? O
Relevance to wether or not she got caught making stupid bold-faced lies? 0
Thanks for playing though.
March 24, 2008 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lestatdelc, I'm not missing your point that anything can be twisted to make Hillary bad and Obama look good. So what? That's the nature of rhetoric. This is in the 90's, flying into a hostile country under the threat of sniper fire. maybe she only visited 79 instead of 80 countries and she lied about that too.
March 24, 2008 11:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary was not flying into a war zone. The war ended one year earlier. There was no gun fire. She didn't have to run with her head down. She made it up. Now these are things we know for sure. What is it that is unfair in pointing these things out?
March 24, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
outoftheloop, none of those things are true. I was friends with a large group of Bosnian refugees from during the war to the present day. The idea that the war ended suddenly on that day and there was no violence thereafter has no trace of truth in it whatsoever. They are still fighting each other today. It took years for people to stop killing each other in the streets and for people to be allowed to return to their homes stolen during the war. You can easily find this out for yourself by doing some research, particularly with some Bosnian sites.
The idea that there were no hostilities and snipers near Hillary at the time is just absurd, and if Republicans made such a statement against Obama then his supporters would be screaming they were all lies. It's just rationalising any point to support Obama. I don't really support Hillary, but these tactics are just the kind that Rove used that turned people off the Republicans. If Obama supporters need to lie, smear and be biased to win the nomination they should ask themselves what they are really doing.
Like it or not, half the delegates don't want your precious Obama, maybe they have a point too.
March 24, 2008 11:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude. She admitted it wasn't like she said before.
Why the FUCK are you still trying to defend her? Even SHE admits she was wrong!
March 25, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
March 25, 1996? I remember exactly what I was doping.
I'd split a HUGE Cola bud with a friend that this really cute chick sold us out of a 5 gallon bucket of DANK.
March 25, 2008 1:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
People, people. We need to focus on helping the victim in this misremembering episode...
We must demand Clinton apologize to Sinbad!
March 24, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
An apology is not enough. Sinbad should demand that Hillary be dismissed from the campaign.
March 24, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Best. Comment. All. Day.
March 24, 2008 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's holding out for the Cabinet post that had previously been promised to Richardson.
March 24, 2008 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why Hillary can not be believed when she now claims that she has turned against the Iraq War that she voted for, and that she wants to end it:
John McCain does not want to end it, and yet Hillary has endorsed him for Commander in Chief. If Hillary is opposed to where McCain stands on the Iraq War, how can she truly endorse him for Commander in Chief over Peace Candidate Obama. What this reveals is that she is just pretending to be against the Iraq War now because of what the polls reflect, but she really is not an honest anti Iraq War candidate. You can not trust her. Senator Obama is the only anti Iraq War candidate left in the race.
Hillary has admitted that she really would prefer to see a President McCain continuing Bush's Iraq War, instead of a President Obama ending the Iraq War.
March 24, 2008 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
So I had to sign in to put an end to this. As a Bosnian I kinda know what I’m talking about. She landed in 1996. War ended in 1995, mkay? You can’t really say “we landed in Germany in 1946 under threat of snipers”, and this is same thing. I’m sure it was unusual experience and all, but there was no real danger whatsoever. BTW Tuzla was probably chosen for US Army bases because it was one of safest places in Bosnia for US soldiers. Serbs never got near to the city, and it even managed to sustain social-democratic government during the war.
Sorry for my English
Peace
March 24, 2008 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
What really worries me is that her campaign has created such a armor-plated myth of victimization (judging by the over-the-top defensiveness of those trying to bat away anti-Hillary facts and opinions here), that the consensus -- that she lied about the Bosnian landing, knew there is proof, yet seems constitutionally unable to tell the truth --notwithstanding, we're just preaching to the choir here. I see this, as others apparently do here, as evidence of a basic character flaw. A flaw, it can be asserted, that should come as no surprise to anyone who's been paying attention.
However, the true believers think anything said against her is just proof of the depravity of her opponent, rather than evaluating evidence objectively. Is this the kind of person who represents her 15% lead here in PA. If so: Oh. My. God.
Is there any evidence yet that any of this stuff about her has hit the polling data? When will we know, one way or the other, if the Wright smears will have inoculated the Pa. blue-collar voters against anything bad about her? It's been in the local papers, and has been on the cable TV, but I have no feeling for how much people care.
March 24, 2008 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Grassroots swiftboating at its finest...
March 24, 2008 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Swiftboating is fabricating things to smear a candidate. The only lies here are the ones the Hillary said about the facts of her arrival in Bosnia in 1996, and her tortured attempts to spin being caught in said flat-out lies.
March 24, 2008 9:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even if she had been fired at by snipers, what does that have to do with commander in chief experience? I mean, I don't even understand why America thinks that being a veteran ( ala Kerry or McCain) makes you commmander in chief material. Having been Dwight Eisenhower or Colin Powell is commander in chief experience. But having carried a rifle somewhere? Unh, I don't think so. And I especially don't think getting shot down and sitting in a prison cell gives you the right POV -- much less landing in Bosnia with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow. The whole discussion and the level of discourse is ludicrous. Are we really that stupid here?
March 24, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Putting your life on the line in service of the country is something that should be respected. But it does not in and of itself translate into the judgment needed to make the calls that a CinC needs to make.
One would think that having put your life into the hands of another that way, would temper one's willingness to commit troops into battle, yet there is also a countervailing aspect that many military people have, and that is application of force as initial reaction and to simply follow a chain of command instead of independent critical thought to arrive at your own conclusions about a best course of action.
So I agree it is a wash in some respects, but I do (and always will) respect others who are willing to put their lives on the line for public service (be they first responders, police, soldiers, etc.)
March 24, 2008 9:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
S'okay, Max, you make millions a day.
March 24, 2008 9:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Under all that stress in Bosnia she kept on smiling. Hillary saved her tears for New Hampshire............Hmmmmm. Post traumatic stress, do you suppose!!!!!!
March 24, 2008 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brilliant move to draw attention to her strong on national security and foreign policy experience.
Then gave a great speech to boost the economy while BO cut and ran to the beach.
March 24, 2008 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your comment is as well-grounded as idiotic's "GREAT NEWS!" ones, alas yours is not satire, just irredeemably stupid.
March 24, 2008 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I could be totally wrong but she is toast. The contrast between her bragging St. Patrick's Day speech and the tape of the event is so damning. She lied, worse she appears to believe her own lies. Clinton seems to have a problem with veracity when it is to her disadvantage. For example, we have the myth that she tuned down great corporate law jobs to follow Bill to Arkansas. Even her closest friends didn't know she had flunked the DC bar and couldn't have practiced there unless she tried again. I hate to say it, Senator Clinton has a George Bush problem. She has to go fast.
March 24, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damn, now I am going to have to refund all those who contributed to my Tuzla Statue of St. Hillary of Arc project!!!!
March 24, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
First rule of when you are in a hole, stop digging. Please Hillary stop lying. We all know you lied outright on this one. We have the video. As for the second point of the article, yes we should take the fact you lied about this issue/event to be a sign on how you would lead. I don't think we need another liar in the White House.
March 24, 2008 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is how Camp Clinton will get out of this one: Hillary needs to Reject and Denounce her own story about dodging sniper fire, blame this whole farce on the media being too critical of her, ask if Obama needs a pillow, and then point out that only her and McCain have actually been under fire during wartime.
March 24, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary has had trouble coming up with a slogan that wasn't ripped off from Obama. Well, here's her chance:
"Millions of words a day -- some of them true!"
March 24, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink