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Hillary Campaign: She "Misspoke" About Bosnia Sniper Incident

Another key moment from the Hillary campaign conference call: Hillary spokesperson Howard Wolfson acknowledged that she "misspoke" when she claimed a couple of weeks ago that as First Lady she had to avoid sniper fire in Bosnia in 1996.

Here's her original quote, from two weeks ago:

“I certainly do remember that trip to Bosnia, and as Togo said, there was a saying around the White House that if a place was too small, too poor, or too dangerous, the president couldn’t go, so send the First Lady. That’s where we went. I remember landing under sniper fire. There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”

Questioned about this on the call, Wolfson repeatedly said that contemporaneous news accounts said that there were "snipers in the hills" in the area. He also read from Hillary's book, Living History, saying that she also described the danger in similar terms.

However, in so doing, Wolfson did concede that her particular description of the episode might not have been accurate, saying:

“It is possible in the most recent instance in which she discussed this that she misspoke in regard to the exit from the plane, but there is no question if you look at contemporaneous accounts that she was going to a potential combat zone, that she was on the front lines.”

As it turns out, though, Hillary used a similar description a second time, two weeks before the above example, when touting her alleged commander-in-chief advantage over Obama. At an event rolling out the "red phone" ad, she said that upon arrival in Bosnia, the welcoming ceremony “had to be moved inside because of sniper fire.”

The mention of "sniper fire" here is also a stretch from her own earlier accounts of the event in Living History, when she said merely that the event was cut short due merely to reports of snipers in the hills around the airstrip.


233 Comments

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Oh, and the "first mom" took her child into this dangerous place? hmmmm...

Even worse than that, she took our National Treasure, Sinbad, into that dangerous place. That is not the judgment that we want to see in our Commander in Chief of Imaginary Brave Deeds!!!!!!

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Please help me bring Sinbad back into the campaign:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/an-open-letter-to-sinbad-your.php

Sinbad cannot not be disrespected!

Come on, Greg. Don't be shy. Show the world your "parsing expertise". This post begs it.... What ? It is from HRC camp ? ..Oh, That's right. You can't do that to her. Can you ?

Here is the latest update in WaPo.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/

An US Air Force journalist calls it as "Mrs. Clinton's [claim] is a lie, plain and simple."

I elaborated a bit more about the situation on the ground in Bosnia inNato Reports from Bosnia

Who you gonna believe, me or your own eyes?

Why not just call it was it is - a lie?

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Homina, homina, homina. Jesus Snipers in the Hills Christ! We are NOT stupid Wolfson.

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I remember landing under sniper fire.

This is a straightforward declarative sentence, with the meaning unambiguous.

Being under sniper fire is a bit different than being informed that there might be sniper fire, isn't it? Or is there some Clintonian parsing that I'm not understanding?

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You just don't understand. "Sniper Fire" is what they call a beautiful sunset in Bosnia. Jeezh, is it too much to ask people to keep up with local dialects?

And if it weren't a dangerous trip why on earth would they send Sinbad with her? You may not know this but Sinbad is America's secret weapon! You don't with the Sinbad.

The Washington Post gave this four Pinnocchios, I believe, which is the highest rating ever given to an obvious lie.

That's not misspeaking. That's lying. The kind of lying people do when they have no shame and will say literally anything to win. And it speaks of unbelievable arrogance and brazenness.

Perhaps the only thing more amazing than that is that the media isn't reported that she lied, it's reporting that her campaign says she "misspoke."

Even in the face of undeniable evidence, the media - and that includes Greg here at HRC Election Central - can't actually bring themselves to stop printing up Hillary's spin verbatim and actually report that she said something that has been proven untruthful.

Wow, that's rather amazing. So she exaggerated big time and tried to make herself out to be a bullet-dodging heroine. This makes her other claims of being "Commander-in-Chief" and, now lately, "Commander-in-Chief of the Economy" almost poignant.

The media is almost there, but not quite. The first incident, relating to the 3 A.M., was what prompted Sinbad's comment. She then double-downed with the comment in her speech last Monday.

It would seem to me that she has a perfectly defensible argument that she misspoke the first time. But the second? After being challenged on her recollection she ups the ante. And only backs off the statement after video is produce the refutes her claim. That's not misspeaking. Sorry. That's lying.

If the media bails her out on this one, I don't want to read another post about how she's misstreated by them. Not a single one.

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If the media bails her out on this one, I don't want to read another post about how she's misstreated by them. Not a single one.

I second this.

Imagine had John Kerry lied like this...Or John Edwards...Or Barack Obama. Just imagine the 24/7 coverage.

Instead? Just the Washington Post...and a couple of others joining in today.

So tell me again how badly Clinton is treated?

She is mistreated, but she's also getting some incredibly benign coverage about lies that would have absolutely torpedoed anyone else's campaign.

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Amen. It's already bullshit that she's been mistreated - but if they're unwilling to call her out on an OUTRIGHT LIE...there's no hope.

I can't wait to see what Olbermann does with this tonight.

I love it. Misspoke. Seriously.

It's fiction. It didn't happen. She lied.

Anyway, I guess we should be happy with this limited admission of error. I had money on Wolfson saying that Hillary parachuted from the plane armed with no more than a number 2 pencil and a gum wrapper and eliminated the threat in combat.

Win some. Lose some.

Did Obama not know about the views of his long time pastor Wright?
I think he knew and misspoke as well.
Try using the same measuring stick for all candidates. You'll see
1) McSame sucks
2) both HRC and Obama are great candidates and would make excellent presidents.

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What blather. There is nothing at all analogous between Clinton flat-out lying and your assertions that somehow Obama misspoke about Wright.

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He didn't deny knowing about the controversial views of his pastor. He denied being in the church when Wright made the controversial statements at issue. And despite some attempts to catch him in a lie, no one has shown that Obama was actually there.

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I guess the whole Wright thing will not lay down. You are easily conflating a snippet of a sermon with a view point.

I suppose what you are really complaining about is that the descendants of slaves still have a little animosity and inherent distrust of the people in power.

SHAME ON YOU BLACK PEOPLE!!! SEE ME IN OHIO!

Busted again! The following is passed overkill: "we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.”

In other words American military would have put a First Lady in harms way. Oh! Right HRC is the exception, kinda like developing her CIC creds on the run, so to speak.

Will this ever end! And Wolfson trying to explain this, now I understand why she has not accepted the invite for a debate in N.C.(Ft. Bragg, etc)

I don't think I've "misspoke" once in my entire life. I've told plenty of lies though.

Compare

misspeak One entry found.

misspeak


Main Entry: mis·speak
Pronunciation: \ˌmis-ˈspēk\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): mis·spoke \-ˈspōk\; mis·spo·ken \-ˈspō-kən\; mis·speak·ing
Date: 14th century
transitive verb
1 : to speak (as a word) incorrectly
2 : to express (oneself) imperfectly or incorrectly
intransitive verb
: to speak incorrectly : misspeak oneself

and Contrast:

Main Entry: 3lie Function: verb Inflected Form(s): lied; ly·ing \ˈlī-iŋ\ Etymology: Middle English, from Old English lēogan; akin to Old High German liogan to lie, Old Church Slavic lŭgati Date: before 12th century intransitive verb 1 : to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive 2 : to create a false or misleading impression transitive verb : to bring about by telling lies

Maybe she just misremembers! Like Andy Pettite!

Don't misunderestimate Hillary!!!!

McCain/Clinton '08!!!!!!!!!!!!

America needs a Commander in Chief of Sniper Fire Misspeak.

Even though she just made up her whole story about running and ducking for cover in Bosnia, Hillary is making up for it now, by running and ducking for coverup of her bald face lies to to the American People!!!!

Please post the Video of her landing please, since it best proves that she didn't misspoke but out right lied.

This small episode shows the folly of the Clinton strategy to go toe to toe with McCain on national security experience and the wisdom of Obama's strategy of framing the debate in terms of judgment. The comparison between McCain the war hero whose plane was literally shot down and who spent years being tortured as a POW at the Hanoi Hilton with that of HRC falsely claiming to have dodged sniper fire with her daughter and Simbad in tow, is just pathetic.

Can a HRC supporter please explain how they plan on winning the experience battle with McCain?

Hey, what do you know, somebody still focussed on relevant issues, instead of this nonsense about "lying" vs "mis-speaking." Yes, I agree, the attempt to go head-to-head with McCain in a battle of experience is a fool's errand. If we really try to turn this into a contest over experience, McCain will win hands down. The way for a democrat to win this November is by running the sort of campaign which Obama is running (one focussed on "judgement" instead of "experience"). Clinton is running a campaign which could possibly work in the primary but could not hope to work in the general election, which means that she has to be planning to pivot pretty quickly in August. Can she do it? I see little reason for us to imagine that she can, and even less to reward her for this short-sightedness.

"Aye, Aye" to that.

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I expect she doesn't plan on bringing up experience against McCain. She just expects to get a pass on that in the GE, so that she can just contrast the standard Dem vs Rep policy differences.

"If a place is too poor, too dangerous send the First Lady" and tell her to bring her kid along! Didn't President Clinton visit Bosnia two months earlier?

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Don't forget to take a comedian and a singer along with you.

Hey Greg, I expect you'll be covering this when the news announcement is made?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/24/123741/841/888/483214


Still no link to the video?


TPM must have some sort of link-disability syndrome. Here again are two great resources to educate yourself on this wonderful story rife for 527ing:


The Carpetbagger: http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/14981.html


Yglesias: http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/hillary_clinton_in_bosnia.php

Keep in mind one more important thing:

The "misspeak" alibi does not liberate her from having TRASHED Sindbad's recollections of the events as those of a mere "comedian."

If she truly misspoke, she owes him a formal public apology.

In all of the din, one thing is certain: This electorate will not tolerate the trashing of Sinbad.

Perhaps Obama's camp to respond to foggy memory as well here

At the same time, several of his oft-recited stories may not have happened in the way he has recounted them. Some seem to make Obama look better in the retelling, others appear to exaggerate his outward struggles over issues of race, or simply skim over some of the most painful, private moments of his life.

[...]

In his best-selling autobiography, "Dreams from My Father," Obama describes having heated conversations about racism with another black student, "Ray." The real Ray, Keith Kakugawa, is half black and half Japanese. In an interview with the Tribune on Saturday, Kakugawa said he always considered himself mixed race, like so many of his friends in Hawaii, and was not an angry young black man.

He said he does recall long, soulful talks with the young Obama and that his friend confided his longing and loneliness. But those talks, Kakugawa said, were not about race. "Not even close," he said, adding that Obama was dealing with "some inner turmoil" in those days.

"But it wasn't a race thing," he said. "Barry's biggest struggles then were missing his parents. His biggest struggles were his feelings of abandonment. The idea that his biggest struggle was race is [bull]."

Then there's the copy of Life magazine that Obama presents as his racial awakening at age 9. In it, he wrote, was an article and two accompanying photographs of an African-American man physically and mentally scarred by his efforts to lighten his skin. In fact, the Life article and the photographs don't exist, say the magazine's own historians.

[...]

Yet even Obama has acknowledged the limits of memoir. In a new introduction to the reissued edition of "Dreams," he noted that the dangers of writing an autobiography included "the temptation to color events in ways favorable to the writer ... [and] selective lapses of memory."

He added: "I can't say that I've avoided all, or any, of these hazards successfully."

So your defense for Hillary's lying multiple times on the campaign trail to bolster her credibility is that Obama may have exaggerated in his book?

Cut and pasted right off HillaryIs44,org Well done, laddie.

BTW, ever hear the expression "2 wrongs don't make a right"? Assuming your info (which you obviously spent a lot of time researching) is correct, how do Obama's sins absolve Hillary of hers?

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So, if I read you correctly, you're saying that Obama and his childhood friend disagree over their subjective impressions of the conversations they had 20+ years ago, and that a magazine he saw when he was nine, that he thought was a Life magazine, was some other magazine.

Wow, Obama's credibility is shot! Impeach the bsatard!

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So if these claims from the book turned out to be true, would they push Senator Obama over that C.I.C. threshold?

If the friend had confirmed and the magazine did exist, would these two incidents be enough "experience" for Senator Obama to base an entire Presidential campaign on?

If they wouldn't, could you please explain how these non-issues are in any way comparable to the situation at hand?

O what LIES!!

She LIES, lies and LIES somemore.

She even disparaged Sinbad when he told the truth by saying 'he's just a comedian'

She lied about Nafta
She lied about why she voted for the war.
She lied about Rezko.
She lied about a vastrightwingconspiracy.

She is a LIAR.

They're both liars.

"Sen. Barack Obama is trying to distance himself from his pastor of 20 years after being questioned about his minister's advice to blacks to sing "damn America," instead of "bless America." Obama had touted his 21-year long membership in Trinity United Church of Christ, a controversial Chicago Christian church that Obama claimed earlier this month was not controversial, despite the fact that his minister has preached that the United States was itself responsible for being attacked on 9/11."

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7010335862

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Hmmmm. Where's the lie in all this frenzied quoting?

umm...his church is not controversial?

Well, Wright himself admitted it was:

“If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me,” Mr. Wright said with a shrug. “I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/30/us/politics/30obama.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all&oref=login&oref=slogin

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Obama claims a church is not controversial. Whether something is "controversial" seems to be a definite matter of opinion. Now, had Obama claimed that his church was, for instance, Roman Catholic, well, that's a factual issue, not an opinion.

Whether one was under sniper fire is not a matter of opinion, either. Or is it?

Why would Barack think he'd have to distance himself from Wright if he didn't think he was controversial? That makes no sense. Especially considering the fact that he already had that Muslim rumor hanging out there. No--if he thought he might have to distance himself from his Christian Pastor, it would mean he thought he was indeed controversial.

I'll just point out that you are conflating Wright with Trinity United Church of Christ. They are not, contrary to your implication, one and the same. Obama acknowledged that Wright was a controversial figure. And frankly, the reality here is far more nuanced than you are willing to concede since it would not advance your interest.

Now what this has to do with Clinton lying when she didn't have to is beyond my comprehension. But that's not your point is it? Just muddy the water and dismiss this as politico-speak....

Intellectual dishonesty cannot and should not be justified, by any supporter.

This is why it's important.

"Misrepresenting your position and carefully parsing your words when you don't think you'll get caught are the hallmarks of the kind of politics that Barack Obama is running to change."

They both do it, but Hillary's campaign doesn't rest on the idea that she doesn't do it. I think this Bosnia thing, of course, was a stupid comment to make. But she never promised me she isn't a politian.

Obviously, if his Pastor is the head of TUCC, and his Pastor is controversial, that would make attending the church controversial until his Pastor is retired. At the time of his statement, Wright was still actively preaching.

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Shorter another_reader:

It's OK for Clinton to lie, because she never said she WOULDN'T lie!

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I thought the exact same thing. Really bizarre rationale.

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I have distanced myself from a lot of non-controversial people, issues, and situations over the years. I bet you have too.

Maybe he just disagreed.

Besides the paraphrase in the quote from AHN, please provide a direct quote, with surrounding context, of Obama saying, "My church is not contraversial." I think I recall him saying something like, "My church is not considered a contraversial church in Chicago," but that's a lot different from saying "There is nothing that has ever happened at my church that anyone would consider contraversial."

In any case, he obviously was speaking about the past general perception of the church--which is clearly subjective--and cannot be compared to a statement like "we ran with our heads ducked to avoid sniper fire."

In a campaign appearance earlier this month, Sen. Obama said, "I don't think my church is actually particularly controversial."

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4443788

"Misrepresenting your position and carefully parsing your words when you don't think you'll get caught are the hallmarks of the kind of politics that Barack Obama is running to change."

Gee, but that doesn't provide any context. I found this quote from the same talk in which he said he didn't think his church was particularly contraversial:

"Jeremiah Wright ... has said some things that are considered controversial because he's considered that part of his social gospel."

So how can this be a "lie" when he clarifies that his Reverend has said things that were considered contraversial immediately after the quote you cite?

Link?

I think we need to give credit where credit is due. This is the closest Hillary has ever come to admitting a mistake.

Okay, this was said via a surrogate, not directly by Hillary herself. And granted, it wasn't so much a matter of having "mispoke" as a matter of having "lied through her teeth to exaggerate yet again about her experience".

But those are quibbles. Give her credit for coming closer than ever before to admitting a mistake. Maybe, with help, she can admit that voting to authorize the use of military force in Iraq, and voting with every single senate republican (and Lieberman) to move us closer to war with Iran, were simply times that she "misvoted".

Well, she did say that she wished she could take it back....I guess she big on do-overs.

What kind of parent takes her child into a war zone, where there is a potential for sniper fire? I would seriously question her ability to be C-in-C on that alone.

Well, what else can you do when the kids are off for Ski Week and there just isn't any snow?

Here is a video clip of what really happen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c&feature=bzb302

This isn't misspoke, this is MS. Spoke.

Or, as they say in the Albany statehouse, Ms. Poke.


Can you imagine what kinds of exaggerations she'd tell us once she got into the Oval Office? Eeesch...

We already have a Commander-in-Chief who twists the truth to sway votes. Do we need another one? This is grounds for an ad further highlighting her lack of truthworthiness.

There was a withering hail of sniper fire. Sure, Hillary and Chelsea stopped to listen to the little girl read a poem. That was because Hillary didn't want the little girl to be upset, thinking there might be something wrong. As soon as the poem was read, Hillary wisked her to safety. I'm sure.

Recall, that was the exact same reason Bush didn't do anything when he got the news about the WTC--he didn't want to scare the kiddies.

Clearly, Bush passes Hillary's C-in-C test.

Youtube video making fun of her lying getting a lot of hits today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF7Y

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Thanx. That was good.

Isn't this a rather small point? I remember a certain sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach when it became clear in the last days of Ohio that we were going to waste everybody's time blathering on about what some turkey named Goolsbee said and when he did or did not say it. I remember that same sinking feeling a week or so ago when it became clear that, with the fate of nations at stake, we preferred to argue about whether Obama's pastor was too unpatriotic for Obama (not his pastor) to be president. Now I feel the same sinking feeling in my belly as I see folks eager to debate endlessly whether Clinton "lied" or not when she claimed to be under sniper fire in Bosnia.

Does it really matter? Will we be any closer to selecting the right person to sit in the Oval Office by answering this question? This is irrelevant fluff and drivel, just like the last few weeks of campaign discourse. Why are we letting ourselves be distracted by this sort of pablum?

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Good point. Except this is the candidate making the "misstatements", not an informal advisor or a pastor who has retired.

I fail to see how the distinction is germane. Whether the gaffe tumbles out of the mouth of the candidate or a surrogate, it is still nothing more than a gaffe - as insubstantial as a breeze. If we Obama supporters spend the next week working ourselves into paroxysms of righteous outrage like Frankly0 & al did last week, we simply show that we are obtuse as they are. Surely we are better than this, no?

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She's using the incident to demonstrate her readiness to be commander in chief. That's not a gaffe. That's not a line tossed out in the heat of the moment. It's a deliberate anecdote that happens to not be true.

This is a bit of a problem for me.

Are you kidding Greggy:

The delusional super freak claims she helped resolve Northern Ireland and Kosovo crisis- bold claims followed by alarming mischaracterization of her role in Bosnia.

Wake up! We appreciate your restrain because ever since her TX and OH shenanigans most of us are unwilling to concede an iota of respect for her- but you're giving her way too much benefit of doubt, here.

It's time she explains in full what exactly was her foreign policy experience?

She says she has met 200 some odd national and international leaders. What does that mean? Did she negotiate any foreign policy agreement or was she just a pig with a lipstick on shaking hands fulfilling her role as a first lady?

I don't know if you noticed, she constantly pulls stories and numbers out of her ass about foriegn policy experience and it’s time to explain. What was her role in Bosnia? Kosovo? Northern Ireland?

Are you kidding Greggy:

The delusional super freak claims she helped resolve Northern Ireland and Kosovo crisis- bold claims followed by alarming mischaracterization of her role in Bosnia.

Wake up! We appreciate your restrain because ever since her TX and OH shenanigans most of us are unwilling to concede an iota of respect for her- but you're giving her way too much benefit of doubt, here.

It's time she explains in full what exactly was her foreign policy experience?

She says she has met 200 some odd national and international leaders. What does that mean? Did she negotiate any foreign policy agreement or was she just a pig with a lipstick on shaking hands fulfilling her role as a first lady?

I don't know if you noticed, she constantly pulls stories and numbers out of her ass about foriegn policy experience and it’s time to explain. What was her role in Bosnia? Kosovo? Northern Ireland?

I agree, Kash.

And Mamie Eisenhower is looking more statesman-like all the time.

Greg

You seem to be protective of HRC for no reason. Her recollection could have been fuzzy first time around (though I don't see how one can be fuzzy about being shot) but she deliberately insisted on the same story with certitude (in the face of sceptical questioning by a reporter in a public forum), even going to the extent of ridiculing Sinbad as a comedian (for which she needs to apologize to him BTW).

And, why would it bother you that the Obama supporters here justifiably happy about it ? It is not that Obama or his camp is pushing this story. She is caught up in her own lies.

I'd agree with you if this was a case of simply misspeaking as the Clinton campaign suggested. But it isn't and frankly it is a central part of her argument that she's ready to be CIC on day 1. As I noted above, she made the initial statement. Sinbad refuted it. Instead of retracking/correcting the statement, they turn around and dismiss his statements out of hand and then trot out a general to refute it (his name escapes me) and Clinton doubles-down on the story. And do you really believe that, in the absence of the video, she would have even admitted to misspeaking?

I like your desire to stay focused on the material issues confronting the nation. But to the extent a candidate is making a claim premised on a lie, I think that fact needs to be explored. Especially where it is the central point of their candidacy.

But that's me. Your mileage may vary....

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re: "ready to be CIC on day 1"

Maybe lying is part of being ready to be President. Really, I say this only half-jokingly. I can't think of any in my lifetime (since Johnson).

Of course, it's despicable, the lying, but there ya have it.

It's a big deal because she LIED to us, not once, not twice, but serially! Should we trust her to tell me the truth when the time comes that that 3 am phone call has happened and she's justifying her reasons for taking what may be drastic action? Do you want to send your kid into hostile action on the basis of her word?

What lie would be big enough for you to sit up and take notice?

What lie would be big enough for you to sit up and take notice?

I am not sure. I do know that it would have to be a darn site bigger than this one. This just seems so petty to my mind. I am already in Sen Obama's camp, so I need no persuasion to esteem him more highly than I esteem Sen Clinton, but if I really were undecided, I have a hard time believing that this story would move me at all farther from her or closer to him. It is just too small a thing.

I know what you mean, but in terms of the realities of campaigns, yes, it does matter. Campaigns are won and lost based on how the public sees a candidate's character. Is he/she strong enough? Moral? Can I trust him/her?

Rightly or wrongly, my observation is that people react more strongly to small lies than to big lies when judging the character of a candidate. Perhaps the "big" lies are so scary that people don't feel that they are in a position to judge. Was Kissinger right or wrong in secretly bombing Cambodia? Well, who am I to judge? Meanwhile, small things like "I invented the internet" or "the snub" become coffee table chatter, especially when these incidents feed into existing public sentiment. No, Al Gore did not claim to have invented the internet, but the meme fed into an existing public perception that Al Gore thought highly of himself, his brains, and his accomplishments. No, "the snub" was not real, but it fed into the public's perception that Obama might be a bit cocky.

Clinton twists and exaggerates her accomplishments relentlessly. After all, she has been fighting for change for 35 years! This small incident fits into that existing frame in a way that is small, funny, and telling. And while any one incident might be seen as small or silly, they help to illustrate flaws that I believe are deeply real.

Well, you at least make a convincing rebuttal. I hate to think that you might be right, but that is at least the strongest argument I have yet heard as to why we Obama supporters are supposed to be indignant about this.

Normally I would be agreeing with you, but there is a subtext here.

Clinton has been arguing that the news media is biased against her, and a general reluctance in the big networks to call her out for lying about this is concrete evidence that it isn't true.

John McCain has been getting a free pass for months over his increasingly obvious ignorance about both foreign and domestic policy. The first moment anyone does attack him about it, his spin machine will start talking about the "liberal media elite" and how it's all biased against the poor little Republican candidate.

We have to nip that in the bud right now. If the big news agencies are unwilling to call you out for one of your lies, they are biased for you, not against you.

America does not need A Commander in Chief of Imaginary Brave Deeds!!!!!!!!

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Why not? Didn't Reagan get confused and think he helped free Normandy or something like that? Dubya was a fighter pilot, and so on...

Where's Sinbad? I miss his posts.

THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!

I grew up in Oakland. Does that mean I was raised by sniper fire?

Getting really tired of HRC and the silly claims she's made about executive experience. From bringing peace to N. Ireland to dodging sniper fire with Sinbad and chelsea in tow. Couldn't agree more with the statement that saying HRC has executive experience is like saying yoko ono was a beatle.

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re: "HRC has executive experience"

I said it once here, but I'll say it a second time.

Lying seems to be part of the job of President.

She saw Bill do it over and over as Pres (and on the campaign trail) and she's just following suit.

She's ready on Day One to be Prevaricator in Chief!

The joke going around is that "you can't spell Hillary without L-I-A-R".

About the time of the Iowa primary, I switched to Obama based on a list I had begun accumulating of unethical conduct by Hillary. Since that time, I've lost count of the number of times she's screwed up like this. Obama, by comparison, makes her look petty and incompetent. And there's no need to attack her - all we have to do is keep pointing to her self-inflicted wounds.

CHARACTER MATTERS

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Let's go to the scoreboard:

Sinbad 1
Clinton 0

That's the funniest thing I've read today.

That's hillaryious!

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Yes, why would a mother knowingly put her daughter into a situation she knew to be dangerous?

I'm thinking the former First Lady is either a liar or likes to put her daughter in the line of enemy fire.

Misspoke - riiiiight...
I guess that is the new HRC camp euphemism for outright fibbing.

It took a First Lady,
and her first offspring,
and Sinbad the court jester,
and Cheryl the court busker,
to brave the hellfire of Bosnia...
And dash across the tarmac...
bombs bursting in air....
and our flag was still there.

Vote for me.
I have experience!

Yeah. I saw Chelsea at a club over the weekend, and she was wearing a shirt that said

MY MOM WENT TO NORTHERN IRELAND AND ALL I GOT WAS THIS STUPID TEE-SHIRT


Are the Hillbots here seriously trying to say "everybody lies?" How old are you? 12?

She didn't mispeak; rather, her campaign realized that people are believing their lying eyes. Kinda hard to tell bald-face lies when there's videotape.

Ah...amateur hour, indeed.

Let's give Wolfson credit for coming close to the truth. That's a big improvement. After all they are going to have to swallow a lot of humility, eventually.

It's not necessary to pile on, even though he is a giant steaming turd (Wolfson, that is).

Are the Hillbots here seriously trying to say "everybody lies?" How old are you? 12?

She didn't mispeak; rather, her campaign realized that people are believing their lying eyes. Kinda hard to tell bald-face lies when there's videotape on hand.

Ah...amateur hour, indeed.

What bothered me about her claim from the get go was this: do any of you remember any reports of "sniper fire" being levied at HRC plane during her years as first spouse? Me neither. And, I would guess, that's the sort of thing that might have been, um, "reported". So it has sounded wrong from the outset, and that's because, well, it is. She lied. Liar.

Her pant suit is smoking....

Seriously, I always thought this whole story was bogus. Anyone who has ever had a gun pulled on them (or comes under fire) never, ever gets hazy about it or recovers as fast as she clained to. 30 years ago a policeman pulled his weapon when I opened the door after someone phoned in a home invasion report (false) at my apartment. You never, ever forget stuff like that or mess up the details.

Is she having a John kerry moment?

The dumb thing is she didn't need to gussy it up any. She could have said that she went into a warzone to support our troops. It was good enough left alone. She didn't have to make up anything here, but she did anyway.

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I agree. The actual version of events was fine. She tried to buff up reality.

And if this were an aide, Geraldine Ferraro, her pastor, an informal advisor, I'd say "Move on, people. Candidates can't control everything that comes out of their supporters mouths--let's move on to something more substantive.."

But this is the candidate herself telling a whopper. Not a misstatement. A whopper.

And this is a whopper that's been out there for awhile.

But hey, let's talk about retired Rev. Wright some more, shall we?

What bothered me about her claim from the get go was this: do any of you remember any reports of "sniper fire" being levied at HRC plane during her years as first spouse? Me neither. And, I would guess, that's the sort of thing that might have been, um, "reported". So it has sounded wrong from the outset, and that's because, well, it is. She lied. Liar.

Oh yeah. I expect this to be the end of it. Admission of misspeaking will be enough to pacify the reporters and it'll be over soon.

Greg DL, the reason it's not a small point is Hillary is basing her attack on Obama on her "experience." That whole thing was designed to show her CIC capabilities over Obama. But it's a lie.

It matters, too, because if she were going to get to the general, that clip is going to be played again and again to discredit her experience. She made the choice to run on experience, and on national security--both arguments she loses against McCain. Instead of focusing on what she did, she exaggerated and that will discredit the things she actually did. She will have reduced herself to a first lady performing ceremonial duties with no more ability to run the country than Laura.

Now, I am not going to pick my candidate on the basis of what the Republicans are going to say about them. But it was a stupid move. And another instance in Hillary trying to win the battle to lose the war.


the reason it's not a small point is Hillary is basing her attack on Obama on her "experience." That whole thing was designed to show her CIC capabilities over Obama. But it's a lie.

Her attack was insubstantial fluff. This refutation of her attack is insubstantial fluff. Is it really necessary to enact this strange ritual of contrived outrage in order to deal with an issue which scarcely merits ten second's worth of our attention in the first place?

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If the claim to experience was so insubstantial as to not even merit discussion, then why is Clinton's "experience" consistently the one thing that she outpolls Obama on?

Her claims to experience have resonated with voters, no matter how fatuous the claims are. The "under sniper fire" claim about Bosnia, on its own, is just silly. In the context of all the other stuff that has poured out of the Clinton campaign and resonated with people, it's not silly at all, but indicative of what is considered appropriate for the campaign. Lying.

And btw, can't a single reporter be bothered to ask what she gains by this lie anyway. Is being shot at now also a necessary qualification for the presidency?

Theatre of the absurd. If the election comes down to whose life was more in danger while abroad, guess who wins?

Once again we all follow HRC down a rathole that only helps the other side.

Misspoke? Give me a break. Lies and more lies. She lies just like Bush and with a straight face. Are we to believe that any First Lady has no security detail? I wonder if she lies so much that she doesn't know what's true anymore. hummm..there's a thought.

I would think so too if I hadn't seen the tape of her telling the story. She gives off all the classic signs of someone in the midst of telling a whopper.

I think it speaks volumes that such a pathetic and self serving liar will continue to wield significant power in the Democratic Party for years to come. All that matters is that "D" after one's name. But then again, it is so infantile to not vote for a Democrat just because she cannot be trusted.

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Sssshhhh.

That was before the threat of 8-year olds armed with poetry on a tarmac reared its dangerous head.

Misspoke? Anyone with half a brain can see that she was telling a bold-faced lie! Stop insulting our intelligence Clinton camp!
Make sure the superdelegates know about this, let's see if they too agree that Clinton merely 'misspoke'.
And where the heck is the media already?

You know I had a friend who fabricated a story once that actually was a story a friend of his told him. Later my friend admitted that he had ADD. I wonder.

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Here's my theory. Like others who operate on rigid willpower, Hillary has probably spent many years developing a parallel track in her memory bank.
One section contains the facts, the other contains the day-dreaming details of a wannabe heroine VIP. When she 'remembered' Bosnia, she just 'misspoke', tapping into the dream track in her brain.

Just don't get her started on her memories of wading ashore on Omaha beach. Or Pickett's Charge. Or Marathon.

This story is truly breathtaking in that it was so unnecessary for her to make such an outlandish claim that could be debunked by reporters who were actually on the trip with her!

Who was the Hollywood producer who said last year that the Clintons simply cannot tell the truth? It does seem to reach the level of pathological when the lie is so reckless and inexplicable as this.

What's next?

"Not to be outdone by Senator McCain, Senator Clinton stated today that she had been a prisoner of war for one year longer than he had."

Why not, if it sounds good say it.

We should cut HRC some slack with she misspeaks. But by the same token, we also need the HRC campaign to be more gracious as well. It is difficult when one campaign demands that people be fired when some one mispeaks and then says their own staff was just stating the facts.
It would be nice to move beyond this constant bickering. Hillary's exageration is not that big of thing. It is only a big thing if the campaign becomes mired in gotchas and devoid of content ( like it has been for the last few weeks )

the fact that she had to lie, yes lie, shows how valid she herself thinks it is as foreign policy experience. frankly all the claims of experience in the posts above bother me. all the experience in the world doesn't help if you don't have the judgment to use it. don't buy that argument? then explain cheney and rumsfeld.

Clinton Sinbad 08: Are we going to eat here, OR AT THE NEXT PLACE?!

Some Monsters Lie.

Some Lies are Monsters.

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So, if I read you correctly, you're saying that Obama and his childhood friend disagree over their subjective impressions of the conversations they had 20+ years ago, and that a magazine he saw when he was nine, that he thought was a Life magazine, was some other magazine.

Wow, Obama's credibility is shot! Impeach the bsatard!

You guys really are like a lynch mob. Geez. So she might have embellished or mis spoke, whatever. Its not like she wasn't in Bosnia.

Please get all the liar, liar retorts out of your system. Its sounding like a school playground.

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No, she LIED. She didn't "misspeak" or "embellish" she lied. And this is not some "schoolyard" thing, to expect that someone running to hold the highest office in the nation doesn't fabricate and lie.

Greg DeLassus:

Isn't this a rather small point? I remember a certain sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach when it became clear in the last days of Ohio that we were going to waste everybody's time blathering on about what some turkey named Goolsbee said and when he did or did not say it.

Wake up son.
This isn't some isolated case of fluffy bloviating by Herr Queen.

She has lied about the origins of her name:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/hillary.asp

She has lied about the origins of her book:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Takes_a_Village

Clinton has been criticized for not giving credit to a ghostwriter in connection with It Takes a Village. The majority of the book was reportedly written by ghostwriter Barbara Feinman.[8] When the book was first announced in April 1995, The New York Times reported publisher Simon & Schuster as saying "The book will actually be written by Barbara Feinman, a journalism professor at Georgetown University in Washington. Ms. Feinman will conduct a series of interviews with Mrs. Clinton, who will help edit the resulting text."[9] Feinman spent seven months on the project and was paid $120,000 for her work.[10] Feinman, however, was not mentioned anywhere in the book.

You are not paying attention here son.
You are falling behind.

Here is a basal-level truth:
This woman and her husband LIE A LOT.

Just like Bush lied about his National Guard service and his "successful" oil drilling businesses.

These are lies that are aimed to convince you and I that they are fit for the highest office in the land. So not only does this say something fundamental about their characters, but also, their fitness to that service.

Capisca?

(i.e. Wake up! You are smarter than your last post.)

Well, I see that I am not winning any friends so far, so as long as I have already alienated my comrades so thoroughly, I might as well dig myself in even deeper. All of the above "lies" strike me as unspeakably petty. How she got her name? Who cares? How did she come up with her booko title? Could it possibly matter less?

There are a million good reasons not to vote for her and two million good reasons to vote for Obama instead, but "she lied about snipers in Bosnia" is not on either of those lists. This is just more of the "silly season" which Sen Obama has rightly decried.

I agree with your up until your conclusion. The name, the book title.. who cares. But this is different. Let's remember why: All of this started because Clinton is trying to campaign on what she describes as superior foreign policy experience. When asked to justify these claims, she offered a list of examples, Bosnia being one.

So why is the lie here important? It's not really whether or not there where snipers. This is a total distraction. The point is that as was the case with her other examples of Ireland and China, Bosnia was a photo op. Plain and simple.

So you're right in that it's perhaps silly to put too much importance on just how big a whopper this was, although people are right to say that this goes to her character, but what really matters here is that this supposed superior foreign policy experience is so much pomp and circumstance.

And that's no lie.

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At least she didn't fly in wearing a flight suit.

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Or, God forbid, a codpiece.

Which reminds me of the old favorite: "Nixon said "I am not a crook," and Bill Clinton said "I am not crooked."

After George Bush, we need to be able to trust out President.

I don't trust Hillary. I don't trust McCain.

I trust Obama.

That's all that really matters, isn't it?

Trust is one of the factors. And there can be a different measure for trust for different people.

Trust has to be the number one factor.

You can elect someone who promises universal health care, who promises to end the war in Iraq, who promises to do this or that...

but if they are not really going to do those things, then what is the point?

How can you elect a liar?

are you serious? you know that Hillary is not going to try to do those things?

sorry the post didn't sound right.

Do you really think that Hillary will not try to do the the things that she mentioned?

Apparently, your standard of trust is differnt than mine.

you can trust Obama because you think that he is an upstanding guy with all the positives about is campaign, which I'm sure you will be more than happy to explain.

You can distrust Obama because he doesn't have much a record. What we do have is wishy washy record.


You can trust Hillary because she has survived the one of the dirtiest attacks from the Republicans. so and so on.

You can distrust Hillary because she "lied" about flying into Bosnia under duress...so on and so on

It's more than just this!

She said she would not "participate" in Florida and Michigan. Even if you don't count her name on the ballet as "participating" (Obama tried to get his name off), how do you explain way her attempts to get those votes counted now?

How is that not participating?

She supported the war in Iraq up until at least 2006. It's obviously a political move she now is against the war. When she says she will "responsibly" re-deploy the troops... what does that mean?

I don't her to get us out of Iraq. I don't trust her period.

yikes, meant "I don't trust her to get us out of Iraq."

Sorry, there are more important things going on in the world that continuing to battle with Limbaugh. This isn't the 90s anymore. Nobody cares. In case you didn't notice, there's a war on that she's done nothing but rubber stamp. This matters to people. She tries to tell us she has foreign policy experience and then it turns out her stories are made up. Sorry, but this matters. Not Limbaugh.

She doesn't need to be President to keep up "the good fight." We don't care.

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the trouble with your dictionary cites is that they seem to have forgotten this incident and I think, the modern beginning of such a word or phrase ( and aside to Wolfson: when you use Ron Ziegler as your source of phrasing you have arrived--this must be the bottom ---or as one could accurately say "truly Nixonian, or maybe even one better since here Wolfson says it is only possible that she misspoke)

TIME MAGAZINE
It's Inoperative: They Misspoke Themselves
Monday, Apr. 30, 1973

THE Nixon Administration has developed a new language—a kind of Nix-speak. Government officials are entitled to make flat statements one day, and the next day reverse field with the simple phrase, "I misspoke myself." White House Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler enlarged the vocabulary last week, declaring that all of Nixon's previous statements on Watergate were "inoperative." Not incorrect, not misinformed, not untrue—simply inoperative, like batteries gone dead.....

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Thanks for the link. I like the youtube video. Very funny.

Unfortunately, this will not rise to the level of Wright; the so called sniper incident deserves more attention. Sinbad may be a comedian, but Clinton has been too foolish.

The Commander in Chief and ready on day one arguments go out of the window never to return. Basically, all American civilian( Secret Service) and military personnel who were and are responsible for her, daughter, and staff would have to have been incompetent to allow her in such a situation as she described. One does not have to be a opponent nor supporter to understand the implication of this matter.

Juxtapose the following two statements today from Camp Hillary:

Hillary Spokesperson: Obama Campaign's Attacks Are "Based On Lies"


Hillary Campaign: She "Misspoke" About Bosnia Sniper Incident.

Pantsuit On Fire.... Pantsuit On Fire!!!!!!

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Homina, homina, homina. Jesus Snipers in the Hills Christ! We are NOT stupid Wolfson.

Damn, I think I want to have your babies - that "Jesus Snipers in the Hills Christ" just rocked my world.

To graph from my (currently highest-ranked)reader post about this....


The Clinton campaign HAD to be aware of the new-found-doubt of Hillary's version of events, that was raised by the Sinbad story

From this point, THEY HAD SEVEN DAYS before Hillary Clinton's March 17th speech at George Washington University to LOOK INTO THE RECORDS of the flight and the landing ceremonies, both their own and those of news reports, AND CORRECT Clinton's highly erroneous earlier accounts.

But what did they do? Instead, they choose to not only stick with her original story, but actually ramped up its details. This decision was nothing less than an act of 100% premeditaed fraud.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/03/people-are-failing-to-comprehe.php

You may think this is over, and it may be for the moment. But if Clinton is the nominee, expect to see the tarmac tape run 24/7 by McCain's campaign.

And what's in those tax returns, anyway? More surprises, no doubt.

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Hey! What're you doing with my cat??

Had enough?

If she were to somehow pull out the nomination and the GE, I am left wondering whether she will tell lies like this when visiting foreign countries; sending more American soldiers to die in wars that need not be waged.

she misspoke in regard to the exit from the plane

WTF? She is seriously a dillusional freak.

Sorry Greg. I appreciate your consistent efforts to be fair minded and keep moving our discourse back onto the path of rightousness. Somebody's got to do it. With all the Hillaroids fleeing the real blogs for their electronic Dienbienphus at hillaryis44.org, MyDD.com and Taylormarsh.com, we're going to have to learn to keep ourselves honest.

But you're wrong here. This is a big deal.

It's a big deal, first and foremost, because she made a big deal of it. She recounted her heroism under fire as a counterpoint to how much better prepared to be Imperator she was than that young civilian punk Obama. Then, when challenged by eyewitnesses, she stuck to her story. When challenged by eyewitneses and fellow participants again, she denigrated the source stuck to the story and recounted details. She lied, her campaign lied.

If a presidential campaign is a job interview and you're basing your entire campaign on how much better your resume is than the other guy's, and she she is, proof that you lied about your resume is a very big deal.

And if a presidential campaign is about character, proof that you lied about your resume, which you've made a centerpiece of your pitch, lied again when the lie was brought to your attention, attacked the credibility of the people who challenged your lie and then, only when your lie is incontrovertably proven, send out a spokesperson to say "she misspoke," it's a big deal.

Excellent comment!!!

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at TPM's cramp Chelsea office right now and hear what the debate going on "in-house" about this is like.

Thank you for posting your response. It sums up my thoughts rather nicely.

The Obama campaign has been sending the video around according to ABC News. Do you think this might make it into an advertisement? In Pennsylvania?

Or are they going to refrain because they do not want to be seen as "too negative"?

"You may think this is over, and it may be for the moment. But if Clinton is the nominee, expect to see the tarmac tape run 24/7 by McCain's campaign."

This is the basis of a real swiftboating in October.

To be more precise, this is the stuff her "riding the tank looking silly in the helmet" ad will be made of.

It would only be "Swiftboating" if she had heroically dodging sniper fire to save that little girl, and then they brought out some guy who claims to have seen it to falsely claim it didn't happen.

"To be more precise, this is the stuff her "riding the tank looking silly in the helmet" ad will be made of."

I'm just imagining her fictionalized version of the Bosnia visit being juxtaposed against McCain's military experience or time as a POW. I think this gaffe has a lot more punch in the general than the primary.

"I did not have sexual relation with that woman."

neither do I...lol

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Hillary: We need an economy warlord to match militarization of American foreign policy.


This is from Josh on the front page. Does anyone else besides me find this deeply disturbing? Militarization of our foreign policy is what the Neo-cons have done to us and is everything that is wrong with our foreign policy.

I'm getting really taken aback at the Republican-sounding statements. Seriously - have they given up on the progressive wing of the party and are heading for crossover votes or something? I can't fathom why any Democrat would say such a thing - we've been decrying the lack of real diplomacy in our foreign policy for years.

Don't be ridiculous. Hillary is not a neo-con, no matter how hard you want it to be.

But she doesn't sound like a liberal.

Do you forget she sounded just like Bush defending the Iraq war up until 2006?

Argghhh, does no one remember ANYTHING this woman has said in the past 8 years?


United States of Amnesia.

Hillary Clinton is your classic DLC democrat.

You can read more about her conservative record and values at the link below; from her longtime avid support for the death penalty, her attempts to criminalize burning the American flag, to her vote against banning cluster bombs from civilian areas.


100 REASONS NOT TO VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON

Yes it's my own site.

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They hate progressives...

"...Hillary's politics are Joe's politics. If Lieberman sinks, it will raise a lot of questions about the current Clinton strategy, which is really just a post-millennial version of that old-time DLC religion. When I asked Waters why she thought Clinton was coming to Connecticut, she said there were rumors in Washington that he and his wife are freaked out by the sudden progressive insurgency. The DLC is putting down a small rebellion before it spreads. Thus, Bill, the DLC's greatest success story, will be standing alongside former DLC chairman Lieberman in Waterbury mere hours after Hillary gives the keynote speech at the DLC's annual national convention in Denver..." http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/24/clinton_lieberman/

So, do you still feel warm and fuzzy wanting to support and defend a Hillary 'Democratic' nominee...?

I certainly do remember that trip to Bosnia, and as Togo said, there was a saying around the White House that if a place was too small, too poor, or too dangerous, the president couldn’t go, so send the First SUPER Lady.

That's reality!
Sinbad is a comedian and a liar.


Like Ireland's PM, General Clark will show she is telling the truth.

Clinton is working hard while Obama is taking a vacation in the Caribbean. The Senators claim he is lazy. I think they are right. We need a fighter that works hard.

Nuff said.

Any other racial codewords you'd like to slip in there, getalife?

Apparently, getalife likes his Presidents to be liars.

'Nuff said.

SO a candidate can't take a couple days off from an exhausting campaign and chill? I guess you really hated it when the Clintons vacationed in Hilton Head or San Diego during Bill's campaigns.

BTW, don't be such an f*ing tool. If there is one thing I can't stand is the racist who denies he is one. Come on . . . stand and shout ... "I think black people are lazy." Don't be shy.

I don't see anything at all discreditable about his wanting to spend a little time with his wife and children.

Hillary for Commander In Chief of Imaginary Brave Deeds!!!!!

Ducking Sniper Fire with her Pantsuit on Fire, Pantsuit on Fire.

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To finish my thought, because Josh was paraphrasing Sen. Clinton (he linked to the quote) and that's why it struck me again:


Why does she want to turn the economy into some kind of neo-con fantasy war? Why does she use their language like that?

The MSM has picked this up! Likely, will be seen on T.V. in the East coast within 3 hours. This is the kinda stuff you cannot lie about, it does not go away; it has no spin. She is the caused of it all, no one to point too, misspoke with a subtext of Bush speak proceeded by Clinton speak will not fly.

She has given the MSM some red meat, and they will have their frenzy. The Super delegates who have been waiting likely have found a solid reason to move away from Clinton.

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Yes, she probably confused it with some other trip she took when she was under sniper fire.

I do know that if it was me, and there really was a saying around the White House that:

if a place was too small, too poor, or too dangerous, the president couldn’t go, so send the First Lady.

I would have worked on finding out who it was that had it in for me.

The idea that the United States government would send the President's wife to places that were too dangerous for him is simply ludicrous.

Didn't the A-Team use the same saying?

How many enemy combatants did she personally kill? Did she have to drag Sinbad off the battlefield while lobbing grenades over her shoulder?
I heard the pilot had a heart attack and she had to make the daring landing herself!

Yes, it's on CNN's blog now:

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/24/why-would-clinton-not-tell-the-truth-about-her-1996-bosnia-trip/.

Won't be too much longer till Blitzer cannibalizes it and claims it as his own.

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Readers of this site expect you to be breaking stories, not reporting on the spin it has been given. We will give you a pass, for two reasons:

1. Easter holiday, and you guys certainly deserve a break.

2. You are still way ahead of the New York Times, when the space of my writing this post,finally got on the story.
( sorry not to use the appropriate HTML tags for style)

three minutes ago, number two was number one:

"1. Clinton 'Misspoke' on Bosnia Trip

...Wolfson pointed to Clinton's previous written...welcoming ceremony at Tuzla Air Base, Bosnia-Herzegovina. Clinton wrote: ''Due to...they were flying into Tuzla Air Base. ''Everyone...bulletproof vests,'' Clinton told reporters...
March 24, 2008 - By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

2. Hillary Clinton to Visit Troops in Bosnia

...Italy. The White House announced Friday that Mrs. Clinton would stop in Tuzla, the northeastern Bosnia headquarters of the American peacekeeping mission. Besides visiting Tuzla, Mrs. Clinton planned to stop in Baumholder, Germany, where many...
March 17, 1996 - By The New York Times - World - 118 words "

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This is beginning to remind me of O'Lielly's claims of having been in combat in Panama.

And of course it is patently ridiculous to keep saying that they'd send a First Lady somewhere that was too dangerous for the president.

Yah, Laura Bush should be making her annual goodwill tour of Iraq any day now.


Who wants to bet this doesn't receive even 1/100th the coverage of Wright? Sadly, once it's played a couple times and everyone states how she obviously "misspoke," the cabletards will get bored and move on to the latest video of a scary black man. Dog bites man, they'll say. Move along.

This might just be the last blog I write about politics in America. I have written about Obama being the American Mandela, the burden of the hope he brings, and the man he is in his own right. But I don’t know anymore. I still believe in Obama, but I just don’t believe in American politics anymore. If this is how they want to play politics in America then I don’t want to play anymore. This is too sick. This is nothing to be proud of. Yes, they won - the cynics and morally corrupt. This is just not right guys. This is not what people fought for and died for. The Founding Father would be ashamed. http://angryafrican.net/2008/03/23/the-founding-fathers-will-be-ashamed/

Hillary Rambo Clinton for President in 08.


She has passed the Imaginary Brave Deeds Threshold for Commander In Chief!!!!

I am always impressed by the level of anti-Hillary venom on this beloved site. It was somehow all a bit funnier when it seemed she was about to be creamed in Texas and a nominee could be celebrated as she was about to bow out. Now with her still around, and this vexatious Wright business, you tend to wonder what it all means.

Anyhow, TPMReaderHG rightly makes the point that will be made over and over again if this thing really flares up: she's made more than one mistake here:

"The idea that the United States government would send the President's wife to places that were too dangerous for him is simply ludicrous." You bet it is! This quote of hers probably is lovingly retold with idiotic delight in the Clinton camp, but it will come back to bite her as part of this: "if a place was too small, too poor, or too dangerous, the president couldn’t go, so send the First Lady." You wanna say, yo HRC, are you just nuts, or what is up with you? Running, holding your head down? Huh?

OK, great exchange:

Obama lies about being present at his mentor's racist diatribes.

Clinton lies about whether there actually was live fire as she entered a war zone on a diplomatic mission.

I guess that makes it even.

Uh, OK.

Now, just show me where Obama was present during one of Wright's "racist" diatribes.

The whole Wright story has been blown out of proportion. To take a man's incredible life work and reduce it down to a 3- second sound bite: "God damn America!"

This is much, much worse. It's a politician caught in an awful lie: awful, because it's not concealing a wrong that many people don't think is wrong (like Bill and Monica). It's a lie for no good reason.

And it makes you wonder: If Hillary can lie about being under sniper fire, what CAN'T she lie about? What hasn't she lied about?

What else don't we know?

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Does this count as plagiarizing the words of a war hero Commander in Chief?

Can anyone quote the passage she used here?

So now Clinton is promising to release her tax returns "at least" 3 days before the Pennsylvania primary. What could be so bad that she keeps postponing the release? Seems obvious to me there's something in there that she's hoping reporters won't be able to find before the primary.

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Careful here.

There's probably nothing bad in the tax returns and Senator Clinton's campaign is going to use the backlash to her advantage.

Otherwise they wouldn't release them at all.

This is not just a gaffe, nor is it just a lie, it is a "whopper" as WaPo described, & repeated more than once after Sinbad tried to refute it the first time.

Clinton ALREADY had a credibility problem.

Is there NO ONE in her campaign (or in the party) who has thought about how toxic it would be to run a candidate whom people thought was so blatantly and self-servingly untruthful?

Whether the gaffe tumbles out of the mouth of the candidate or a surrogate, it is still nothing more than a gaffe - as insubstantial as a breeze. --Greg DeLassus (supra)

I have to disagree with you on this one, Greg. When Obama said the other day, "My grandmother is a typical white person...", that was a gaffe. When Clinton said, not once but several times, that she and Chelsea landed at Tuzla under sniper fire and had to flee the tarmac for safety -- that was an outright fabrication. If Hillary is willing to fabricate on that scale, she most certain should be brought to account.

I understand that you want to keep the campaign on a high note. How lovely it would be if presidential contests could rise above the vulgar, gutter-snipe operations that they have always been and become instead affairs of calm discourse and impeccable manners. But think how often the difference between victory and defeat has been decided by a gotcha moment that is blown up into a wholesale character indictment.

What would the Clinton campaign do if Obama engaged in some valorous self-description that was flat-out contradicted by eyewitness testimony and video evidence? Why, they would hack him to pieces and then hack those pieces to pieces, and they would do it with gusto and righteous indignation.

I understand your wish that Obama and his supporters might stick to the high road and not descend to the Clinton campaign's base level. But I'm afraid that in the end that would only reduce Barack Obama to a bloodied martyr. This is not religion, Greg; this is politics.

We certainly should not invent things out of whole cloth, as the Clinton campaign did when they tried to use quotations and video clips to tag Barack as a wanton plagiarist. But here we find Madam Clinton in a several-times repeated and thoroughly documented fabrication. Should we use it as casting a shadow on her character? Only if we want to win.

A big chunk of the electorate has little patience for nuanced speeches, but they sure know a tall tale when they hear one. And this one's a doozy.

Greg:

Well, I see that I am not winning any friends so far, so as long as I have already alienated my comrades so thoroughly, I might as well dig myself in even deeper. All of the above "lies" strike me as unspeakably petty. How she got her name? Who cares? How did she come up with her booko title? Could it possibly matter less?

Huh? WTF?

Son, she took full authorial credit for a book she paid someone $120,000 to write. How she got her name? Another "misread" on your part? Or spinning to save face? That is a story of how she consistently lied about the origin of her name. Consistently L-I-E-D.

She is a serial fabricator. A resume padder. In that regard, she is no different than our favorite Chimpanzee.

Another "misread" on your part? Or spinning to save face?

Hell's bells. Let it be both. Ascribe to me the worst motivations which can be plausibly sustained by the above post and let us both stipulate that every instance which you detail is incontrovertibly a case of her lying. These still seem like very petty matters to my mind.

In my mental filing cabinet, this controvery goes into "circuses, bread and." It is a distraction from the real substance of issues at stake in this election, just like Wright, just like Goolsbee, just like Ferraro.

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Hey, I'm still going to like your comments, even when I disagree with them, as now.

Clinton lied, or misspoke, or exaggerated, or whatever choice of verb one wishes to use, but it's not a minor problem, no matter how much it would be in an ideal world.

One, she used this incident to bolster her CIC threshold BS. And it turns out to be greatly exaggerated. This is going to be problematic because the Clintons should have realized the problem in the first place, and they obviously didn't. Second, if she's the nominee, she's going to be branded as a serial exaggerator, just like Gore. The media doesn't like Democrats, and they love John McCain. Third, this is going to be used nonstop by the McCain campaign if she's the general nominee. This is a problem. Even if you don't think the original lie is that big of a deal (and I applaud your argument for why it is), the response to it (and I'm not talking about use blabbermouths here at TPM) is going to be a deadweight around her campaign, if she's the general nominee.

The vaunted on-message Clinton campaign stepped in it, with this. And it wasn't an aide, a supporter, or some dude in Iowa. It was the candidate.

Look, all of this really depends on what the definition of "is" is....

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I think the actual quote speaks volumes. Unbelievable. Here it is:

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement... "

— Bill Clinton during the independent counsel testimony

And people actually believe that this guy mispeaks or doesn't know what he's saying? Are you kidding me.

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So there were snipers somewhere but apparently not close enough to prevent the ceremony. And there was no military protecting her, nobody wearing flak jackets (like McCain in Baghdad), small girl standing out in the open. How dangerous could it possibly have been?

My God. Snipers, bomb threats, whizzing bullets.

Everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end.

Oh Dear Lord,

Please get this MONSTER our of lives ASAP, if not sooner!

Hardball ran a story about politicians and sex...etc. They played a clip of Mr. Billary, on video tape, saying: "depends what the definition of "is" is!" I puked.

Coming to your Tee Vee soon: Hillary in military fatigue with army boots on!

YUK...

Hellary has learned nothing. Where are her Rovian advisors? She didn't mean literal "sniper fire." She meant "sniper fire" as a metaphor for a very tense situation for first ladies, their daughters, and has-been comedians.

God, do people have to use her picture every time they write about one her lies?

I am sick of looking at this woman!


Pure and simple she lied on this issue. In this regard, she qualifies to be C-IN-Clike her famous husband, Bill, who was less generous with the truth on Lewisky case.

All you Obama fans that like all the negative press the media enjoys piling onto Hillary will be shocked in November when you find out you have been SWIFTBOATED by the Republicans and the Media who conned you into supporting Obama who will get beat big time by McCain. The Reeps are the ones who gave Obama all his money for his campaign to start with and that's because they know Hillary could beat McCain and they wanted Obama who will be easy to beat. So all you Democrats have been SWIFTBOATED by supporting Obama. Hope you enjoy McCain as your president.

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The Reeps are the ones who gave Obama all his money for his campaign to start with and that's because they know Hillary could beat McCain and they wanted Obama who will be easy to beat.


I'm interested in hearing about this money story. Do you have some links?

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And Hillary lying about combat-like situations surely would be a general election winner against Mr. POW himself. It would be no prob for her to out-tough, out-C-in-C McCain. If you believe that, sounds like you've been punked.

Yeah, that's why this is a deal breaker for Hillary.

I never thought the Democrat would lose to the Republican this year, but after this...

She's gonna run on experience vs. a POW after having lied about a thing like this, and it's all on video? That election would be over before it began.

So Greg, not trying to be tendacious, just kinda Socratic.

What kind of lie from her would be big enough for you to think it was significant?

I really, really, really love this story.

I love the reception, I love the poetry, I love Sinbad, I love Hillary's haircut, I love Chelsea standing there looking shy, I love that they're gonna eat either there or at the next place, I love that Hillary kept telling the story for no good reason, I love that its now a misstatement, I really love it all.

Typical. Errr ... ahhh .... weeeellllll ... Your guy's pastor said he hates America!

*runs for the exits*

Bye now, Hillary shills. Thanks once again for playing.

MKyleM?

RaeK?

Marginal Player?

Didn't think so. Perhaps the memo has gone out about those TPS reports.

"There are a million good reasons not to vote for her and two million good reasons to vote for Obama instead, but "she lied about snipers in Bosnia" is not on either of those lists."

Actually, for me it is. I agree with you about the name thing, though, and the ghostwriting thing isn't necessarily that big a deal to me either.

(Depends on what exactly she said though. Erasing someone's contribution to a collaborative effort is the sort of thing that writers get extremely militant about.)

The snipers are different. Not just because it's a bit of resume padding, which it is, but because she's handled the situation extremely badly. By my count she's changed her story twice now, and neither version agrees with the video. All she really had to do when Sinbad spoke out was admit she goofed.

Up until now, I would have said the Rapture would have to happen for McCain to win in November, but I don't think Clinton can beat him anymore, not even with a clean win in the primaries. The problem isn't even so much that it's a big lie, but it's the wrong kind of lie. Specifically, it's one the Republicans can use.

The idea being that if the Rapture came, McCain voters would be left behind?

I like it.

Here’s your link

I don't think that my church is actually particularly controversial. It is a member of the United Church of Christ. It's got a choir. We sing hymnals. We talk about scripture. You would feel at home if you were there.

Jeremiah Wright, who was my pastor, in the past, has said some things that were considered controversial because he has considered that part of his social gospel. So, he was one of the leaders in calling for divestment from South Africa and some other issues like that. And he thinks it's important for us to focus on what's happening in Africa. And I agree with him on that.

You may think that his examples of controversial statements--pro divestment, pro-choice, pro-civil unions--are not the controversies that the questioner probably meant when he called it a controversial church. You could even say he was being deliberatly obtuse when he addressed those controversies instead of others. But you can't--without being much more deliberately obtuse yourself--say that Obama "lied" when he said his church was not controversial, because he IMMEDIATELY concedes that some people do find his pastor controversial.

I can't believe Barbara Walters got Monica Lewinsky for an interview next week. Now that should be something!

Hysterical: DOES HILLARY HAVE FALSE MEMORY SYNDROME?

Dan Goldstein, a Psychology PhD at the London School of Economics and the editor of "Decision Science," has written a piece about whether Hillary Clinton lied or has "false memories" about her landing in Tulza. The piece is on his blog at Psychology Today. FUNNY STUFF! We need a psychologist to understand this "whopper": http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/decisions-decisions

Hysterical: DOES HILLARY HAVE FALSE MEMORY SYNDROME?

Dan Goldstein, a Psychology PhD at the London School of Economics and the editor of "Decision Science," has written a piece about whether Hillary Clinton lied or has "false memories" about her landing in Tulza. The piece is on his blog at Psychology Today. FUNNY STUFF! We need a psychologist to understand this "whopper": http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/decisions-decisions

I know you're not serious here, but it does actually happen. People's brains really do rewrite memories all the time, especially to support their own beliefs about themselves. And I was willing to give Hillary a little benefit of the doubt here, until the "millions of words" thing.

Dr. Goldstein is only half-joking I think. He really does discuss false memories. It's a thoughtful piece with a couple of sharp blows that make the point: Clinton is really in it deep on this one. The question I ask is: what does it say that someone could either lie this badly or create such a florid, self-aggrandizing to "remember." Anyway you cut it, it's a little scary. Sorry. I really believe that.

Now it's clear how Hillary's going to deliver universal health care. She's going to let everybody pretend to be a war veteran to get veteran's benefits. If she survived a harrowing sniper attack then I'm a veteran of the Revolutionary War. I crossed the Delaware with George Washington and helped win the Battle of Trenton in 1776. Now that was harrowing. Where are my benefits!

From "Head of State"

http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/03/i-misspoke.html

"Monday, March 24, 2008

I Misspoke

It was a treacherous night landing. Ice had formed on both of our wings, and as I looked out the port window, I could see it cracking, flying off into the night sky with each near barrel roll of our C-50, highlighted by the flares shooting past on either side of the cabin, turning them into falling prisms of wildly careening light.

As the cabin lurched back and forth and the sounds of rocket fire percussed the urgent, faltering rhythm of our right engine, I unfastened my seat belt, and, finding my center of gravity, rose from my seat, moving past aides frozen still in their seats, arms locked like girders against their arm rests in terror, and walked up the center aisle to the pilot's cabin.

"How long to Kosovo"? I shouted over the screaming whine of the altimeter's alarm, marking our steep descent. The pilot turned, looked at me in shocked recognition--"How...how did you make it up here? No one has ever walked up here in these conditions before! How..."

"Never mind that!" I barked, with what I hoped was not too much stern forcefulness, with sufficient steel and empathy combined into a firm imperturbability. "Check the master FMC! Is it working or has it failed?"

The pilot, paused, as if in amazement at my readiness , and then himself awakening to crisis, looked to the Control Display Unit . "It's down! It's down!" he shouted. A bead of sweat began to form on his brow.

I knew what I had to do. "Get out of there!" I commanded, and pulled him from the seat, where he crumbled to a fetal position on the floor behind me. Stepping over him, I took the chair behind the console.

"Check the Central Maintenance Computers and activate the NAV RAD for alternate radio tuning capability!" I shouted to the co-pilot. He, too, had broken down in tears, his head buried in his hands. I looked to his ID on the console. Another newbie.

Well, this was another one where I would have to go it alone.

Quickly, I tore the scarf from my neck and fashioned it into a crude lasso that could be used for EFIS/EICIS control. Catching the lever with my right hand, I activated the cabin loudspeaker with my left. I knew that they had likely been gulled by the earlier soft patter of the pilot. "Brace yourself! Get ready! These aren't just words!" Then I pulled the lever back hard, sending us rocketing towards the runway.

"You'll never make it!" I knew that voice, and turned. Richardson! How did he trundle up to the cabin? "Out of here, Judas! And take that quivering beard with you!"

I could feel bolts straining against Pennsylvania steel as I pushed the '50 down, down, down to the ground below us. Suddenly, an explosion punctuated the sky--Hand held rocket fire at 3' o'clock!

I quickly performed the evasive maneuvers that I had learned for so long, and so well. My face became angry, then sad, then gentle, then intensely serious, then was finally rocked by a powerful squealing, an unnatural burst of laughter. That did it! The rocket exploded harmlessly behind us.

Now. Now it was time to take the stick and bring this shaking, careening flight, parts straining against themselves until nearly ready to burst, down to the ground. I put my arms to the twin arms of the FO-AP, set the APC, and with all of the strength remaining in me, began to push the levers down. Straining, I pushed harder. And harder. I could see the runway rising before us in the glare shield. I would have to find the remaining strength to bring it down.

Finally, as if a burst of superhuman might had been somehow delegated to me, I pushed the levers into locked position. I could hear Penn in the cabin shouting "We're landing...We're going down!" as I felt the rough shock of the landing gear snapping into place.

Sparks flew as we hit the runway, bullets ricocheting off of the cabin, one wheel touching pavement. I looked straight through the windshield--the militia, arms at the ready stood at the runway's end. The last obstacle.

I turned the craft hard, sending it hurtling sideways across the pavement. It swept the militia away in a single screaming motion that combined with the screaming that arose from the cabin, as we continued to hurtle towards the small, makeshift terminal, where the dignitaries, negotiators, and heads of state awaited for my arrival.

I did not close my eyes. I did not let go of the wheel. I watched--as we ground to a halt just before the doors of the terminal.

I looked fore, at the dignitaries protecting themselves from the sniper fire that raged around them. I looked aft, at the passengers, shaken but safe.

We had arrived. All was good.


Just a moment...

Due to the discovery of a video of the above described occasion, I would like to make few small corrections. The flight was in fact actually a regularly scheduled chartered flight that was actually flown by the pilot and co-pilot--although the pilot did have a cold, and during the flight, I did at several times give serious attention to our flight conditions (notes indicate that I found it "a bit bumpy") I would also note that the dinner, Salmon with Creamed Potatoes, was undercooked, and was served with a Riesling that was unusually dry. It is also true that we were met not by a militia but by a girl's youth soccer team. However, it was necessary for me to dodge a soccer ball as team members demonstrated their often aggressive skills. No other shots were fired.

In short: I misspoke."

Cite:

Head of State

http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/03/i-misspoke.html

Every which way I look at this it just seems bad for her.
Lets assume I'd like to beleive her -
well I've seen the video.
I know what "mispoke" means -
this was not misspeaking.
If there was even a hint of sniper fire - if even in the hills - would she risk the life of the little girl and Chelsea.
One might exaggerate to now and then for the sake of a good story - but she is speaking here to her experience and judgement.
Neither of which seems to pass muster.

What if we placed the real little girl from the tarmac in tuzla in the bed during the 3:00 am phone call. Would Hillary have been as careless
then -
of course that was just a commercial.

Dr. Goldstein is only half-joking I think. He really does discuss false memories. It's a thoughtful piece with a couple of sharp blows that make the point: Clinton is really in it deep on this one. The question I ask is: what does it say that someone could either lie this badly or create such a florid, self-aggrandizing to "remember." Anyway you cut it, it's a little scary. Sorry. I really believe that.

Yawn......... I already miss pastorgate.

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