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Florida Dems Circulating Mail-In Plan

The Florida Democratic Party is now circulating a draft proposal to hold a new mail-in primary ending on June 3, combined with 50 regional offices to help disadvantaged communities participate.

The plan would cost between $10 million and $12 million, and have to be financed through the state party's own fundraising efforts. The party would begin raising the money on Monday, if party leaders have given their approval by Friday.

"Fingers have been pointed in every direction, but how we arrived at this breaking point is irrelevant," state party chair Karen Thurman said in a letter obtained by the AP. "The stark reality is that all Democrats lose if this is not resolved immediately."


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Also from the memo:


Florida Democrats propose June 3 vote

snip

"Only 63% of these primary-voting Democrats are committed to sticking with our eventual nominee if Florida voters are not counted. That number is dangerously low," the memo says.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DISS THE VOTERS>

What about Michigan? Why don't we hear anything about their plans?

Yezs, what about Michigan?

UI think this is Hillary Clinton cherrypickign states.

her party hack friends don't want Michigan, sicne she will lose.

Curiously, only Florida where ashe is afavored are planning a revote.

I say either BOTH MI and FL or neither.

HRC is a cheatocrat and she's hurting our democracy.

Funny how HRC's thugs tried to move up MI and FL to create her big "firewall".

Now they are gaming the system to prevent MI from voting while allowing only her favored state FL.

Michigan is being torpedoed to aid HRC.

Greg and Eric, what a Michigan?

Why is it, exactly, that only Florida is planning anything?

Clearly cherrypicking states to have revotes is cheating.

Let's be honest here - splitting the delegates 50/50 is not "seating" delegates and it is not democratic because the delgates are not representative of the people in their state. The longer the Obama campaign tries to deny the people of Michigan and Florida a vote, the more scared and manipulative the campaign looks.

Florida was penalized because they moved their primary before SC. South Carolina then countered and moved their primary up as well so that they could be first in the South and received no penalty at all. Let's split those SC delegates 50/50 too. Bottom line is that FL primary date moving up had no impact on anything. The DNC's decision to remove their delegates was capricious and self-destructive (as we can clearly see now).

If the Obama folks had any sense, they would recognize that this is a losing issue for them & every vote should be counted. He could appear confident by saying the votes in Florida were so early and I didn't get a chance to campaign there, so I believe I will perform much stronger there than in the original Florida primary. But now, he & his supporters are running scared, afraid of cutting into his current delegate advantage.

As the venerable John Madden says, the prevent defense only prevents you from winning. If he is trying to establish himself as the strongest candidate to face McCain, I can guarantee the best way to do that is not by appearing scared of a fight and certainly not by alienating the voters of MI & FL who might I remind you we will need in November.

Something tells me they won't forget the kind of insults and disregard for their votes that Obama and his campaign are putting forth.

And can someone please remind the supporters that petitioning for a revote is WITHIN the party rules as they are established. Just as super-delegates voting for whomever they wish is WITHIN the party rules as they are established. I'm tired of the Obama sheep just repeating the same old false nonsense and not ebign called on it.

The last I heard, Obama said that he would follow the rules that the DNC lays out. If that means another vote in FL then so be it.

I live in Florida and do not blame the Obama campaign one bit for this mess. He has simply played by the rules.

As a Floridian, I would welcome another vote where Obama can campaign in the state. I think he'll do much better than the 33% he got on 1/29. One caveat that I would add is that regardless of another vote that the Super Delegates be stripped of their votes as they are the ones that caused this mess.

Another thing about mail in votes in Florida - they are against the law. It will be interesting to see how that is overcome and that the integrity of the process is maintained.

Just because Obama is remaining quiet on the issue doesn't mean he's actively attempting to thwart the proposal. He's already said that he agrees with whatever the Party ultimately decides. With all due respect, he is way in the lead, so I doubt he's going to be pushing for these delegates with the same frantic determination as the Clinton camp.

I know it's merely speculation, but seeing as how Hillary agreed long ago not to have these delegates seated, if the shoe was on the other foot and Obama was demanding these delegates, I'd imagine the Clinton campaign to respond with the same smarmy condescension as it's had the entire campaign. So I'm not exactly sympathetic.

While I can appreciate your sentiments, they are only sentimental, and lack any basis in fact. While petitioning for a re-vote may be acceptable, the legal hurdles to getting approval are at this point insurmountable. I caution you to not base your "facts" on the legal arguments of a campaign/party memo. These are the words of an advocate hoping for an unlikely and convoluted interpretation of existing law. It is a pablum upon which they hope loyalists like yourself will pin their hopes. A new primary vote would be allowable under party rules, yes. A whole new primary vote would be allowable (and very expensive to be footed by the state party). Here, however, are the facts. Mail-in votes are illegal in Florida by statute. The state legislature would need to change the law first. Secondly, The Bush DOJ would have to sign off on any election (for several counties) before it could proceed. Also, during the 30-day public comment period, there would be so many lawsuits filed, there is no chance of getting the vote done in time (it only takes one judge in one county to stop the whole thing by injunction). Without beating the point too much, the electorate and the legal establishment in FL are well-versed in elections law and loopholes, and this whole concept would never fly, never had a chance of working and everyone involved knows it. Any calls for a "re-vote" are disingenuous and intended to score political points with the party "sheep" hoping for their desired outcome in the face of the inevitable. I'm afraid the only resolution will come from the Credentials Committee at the convention (and that's likely to be the 50/50 split option). Finally, yes superdelegates are free to vote as they see fit. I think that is fair, but all indications are that they are as split as the rest of the electorate, so we really aren't any further toward resolution.

"Let's be honest here..."

Yes, let's be HONEST. This isn't about the decision to penalize Michigan and Florida. Both campaigns agreed to that. This is about trying to change the rules after-the-fact, just because Clinton is losing.

This is similar to her complaint about caucuses, which never bothered her in the decades before now, or even last year. No, it's only after she lost most of them that she's suddenly decided they're so terrible. How can you support a candidate like this? She's the type of politician that gives all of them a bad name.

i dont believe for 1 second that is a picture of you.
lets be honest here.

I don't know why you think the picture is not mine - other than maybe your stereotypical assumption that a hillary supporter looks like Estelle Getty & the Golden Girls. Nevertheless, I'll be sure to update my photo after I get back from travelling to PA to volunteer for Hillary along with my suster and best friends - other young black women who support Hill!

Let's not forget that Senior Clinton Advisor Harold Ickes is the one that disenfranchised Florida and Michigan in the first place.

CNN is running a convincing piece today to the effect that vote by mail will never happen

1. Illegal under FL election law
2. Illegal to sell voter roll - can't be done by an outside firm
3. Can't use voting machines because state is getting ready for November and is in the middle of a machine switchover which has left some counties without voting machines

And that is the end of that.


On to the Credentials Committee with what is left of the Great Clintons' Election Theft 2008

Yes, let's be honest here. There was always a determination that there would be some way to make the MI & FL voters heard in the primary contest through some method to be determined later. Granted, I don't believe anyone thought it would be as close as it is. There are RULES that hanlde the situation regarding the Flordia / Michigan situation and they have the right to petition to be heard. Whether I am supporting Hillary or not, the DEMOCRATIC thing to do is to find a way to make the votes count. i do not support letting the results of the original primary count and never have even though I believe that would be more advantageous to Hillary. That is not democratic. But a "do-ever" puts both candidates on an even playing field - an even better one for Obama than the eearlier primary where he was less well-known and did not campaign in the state.

There is a time for supporting your candidate blindly without reason and then there is atime to thinking about what is in the best interest of the voters and the party and winning the White House in November. There is no perfect answer, but a do-ever is the most fair way to handle this mess.

Thank you for coming back with a civil response. I applaud you for that. I think you presented your thoughts well. The real problem here is that Mar. 13 is not the time to be trying to get this resolved. There is simply not enough time to get it done. FL party officials should have been proposing solutions January 30 or in February, or better yet, the moment the sanctions were handed down. They. like many, believed the race would be over Super Tuesday, and the winning nominee could order the delegates seated at convention without affecting the outcome. No harm, no foul, everyone is happy, the rules are honored, let's move on. That didn't happen because of poor planning; nobody thought about the what if. Well, the what if is now here, and it's too late to fix the problem. The only workable solution is at the Credentials Committee, and I have a feeling that decision won't sit well with you. It's unfortunate, but that's where we are now.

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Let's just get on with it already. I'm tired of the whining. REVOTE NOW! It's the only reasonable solution.

Pathetic, I can't stand the clintons. They have been soooo victimized throughout their lives. Especially while she had that cushy job on the walmart board, or when she was hosting whitehouse dinners. Man, what a rough life.

I cannot understand how Hillary or her campaign can argue with a straigh face that the results in Florida or in Michigan can be counted. The most likely outcome, as I see it, is that Obama will secure the nomination after the existing primaries, when the superdelegates come forward with their support, and then tell Hillary she can have the delegates she claims in FL and MI, because it will no longer matter.

Well, if we've learned anything about Hillary Clnton it's that there is nothing the woman won't say with a straight face.

Chris Dodd is absolutely right. Seat the Michigan and Florida delegations, split their votes 50-50 and don't allow them to change their votes.

Nothing else is fair. Nothing else makes sense. Any other solution will not only prolong but encourage the Clinton scorched-earth strategy and will be costly to the party's chances in November - both in money wasted that could be better spent on McCain, and in further collateral damage to the party from the Clinton suicide-bomb strategy. Vast amounts of energy will (one would hope) be spent on trying to make fair a couple of re-dos that will be controlled by Clinton-friendly boards of elections in both states.

Clinton and her people will screech and poke their eyes out, and launch yet another barrage of everybody-picks-on-poor-Hillary crap, but they will do that anyway. It's what they do - part of a campaign that by design uses self-pity, hate, and fear.

The DNC can resolve this and they should do it now. Write to Senator Dodd, write to Howard Dean. This is insane. Make it stop.

Obama doesn't want anybody voting on anything. His official campaign slide rule says he's already got the nomination locked up. Democrats in Florida and Michigan need to stop their whining. Can't they see that Barack is the inevitability candidate? It's such an inspiring
message. I can't wait till we use it against John McCain in the Sunshine State.

there is absolutly no way a mail in ballot can proceed.
florida is the training ground for vote fraud.
200,000 BLACK voters were illegally removed from the voting rolls under jeb bush.

if you want a re-do open up the polls and make the people vote.

otherwise declare ALL elections from now on will be mailed in.
you cant have it both ways.

CNN reports that Florida state law specifically bans mail-in voting. You would think Democrats would have looked at this issue before making the proposal.

See Clinton supporters CAN disagree without being disagreeable :)

This Obama campaign slogan of "Politics of Nope - the votes of Florida folks and Michigan folks don't count because your state party decided to move it's primaries up" is wrong on principle and it is inevitable that it will lose.

The Democratic party is the party of principles. Every vote counts is one of those core principles that no one should question. If the Obama campaign and his supporters are really arguing that the voters in Fl & MI should be discounted because of a dispute between the state and national parties, that is not in accordance with those core principles. As a democrat and as an african american female who treasures the right of every individual to vote, it is indefensible to argue that we should discount the votes of millions of people.

This is not about what is best for Senator Clinton or Obama. In the interests of the Democratic Party, we need to find a way to let them vote and make this a fair election.

Thurman has now made it all but official. Vote by mail for FL is a no-go. Even Wexler opposed it. There was no way it would happen, because it's once again against the rules (and against the law).

Three data points:

1. Hillary was losing yesterday.
2. Hillary is losing today.
3. Hillary will still be losing tomorrow.

Or to put it in the HRC camp of "there are only two options":

1. Hillary can admit defeat now, or
2. Hillary will admit defeat in November

Go Hillary!!!

It's official - the Obama campaign slogan is not Yes We Can! anymore. It's No We Won't!

Yes there are obastacles in the way of a re-vote, but every obstacle is presented as this can't happen so why even try.


Our party is better than this. We can and must find a way to resolve this situation democratically. To argue against every vote counts turns the whole "new politics" on it's head. You cannot argue that you are part of a new politics interested in doing what is right rather than what is in our self-interest and simultaneously look for every excuse to deny the FL & MI voers a chance to have their voices heard.


Every obstacle is not the end of the story - it is a problem to be resolved fairly and democratically. This whole defeatist let's not bother democracy is too hard thing is very George W. Bush. Wasn't that the Republican argument against the Florida recount? It's too hard to do a recount! The Secretary of State had certified the vote and therefore the votes of those in dispute should be ignored because per the FL laws, the election had already been finalized.

When Barack Obama supporters are agreeing with Katherine Harris & the GOP election stealers of 2000, surely something is wrong. Let's end the trying to best position one candidate or another and just do what is right.

It won't be solved because Obama doesn't want it solved. He would rather disenfranchise the voters of Florida and Michigan. If he allowed Democrats in Florida and Michigan their votes it would mean he'd lose the argument that he leads in the popular vote and leads greatly in pledged delegates. He wants to be able to make that argument to the super delegates, and he doesn't care how many Democrats he has to disenfranchise so that he can.

These same people call Clinton ruthless, dishonest and self-serving.

The end result of Obama's political maneuvering is that whoever the Democratic nominee is, he/she will be greatly weakened by a process that will seem unfair and undemocratic to most Americans. If this is how Obama must win, he is diminishing his own chances of winning against McCain. It's another sign of the underlying weakness and short-sightedness of his campaign.

dijamo,

Maybe I missed something here, but as far as I know Obama's stance re. the potential re-votes in MI and FL is that he will abide by whatever is agreed in the states and/or between the states and the DNC.

Did he recently claim anything otherwise?

It's possible I missed it, but if I didn't, then your comments and rstephen's comments re. Obama's supposed obstinacy are misplaced.

"Obama's campaign co-chair in Michigan, Tupac Hunter, is now saying that the Obama campaign won't accept any revote, according to a new report."

I suggest google and watching the news and his campaign surrogates such as Chris Dodd et al. There is a ton of sources coming out of the Obama campaign that they are opposed to a revote. Obama wants the delegates seated 50/50 as reported basically everywhere. Let's not change the rules & such, BUT I will abide by the decision of the party.

Here's an article citing his state chairs in MI:

http://www.wilx.com/news/headlines/16630666.html

Now is Obama brave enough to come out himself and say he opposes a revote? Of course not, but every advocate he has says the same thing. Saying you will abide by the party decision does not preclude advocating your position which in his case has been split the delegates 50/50.

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