Brazile: Howard Dean And Other Party Leaders Should Be Prepared To Step In
Despite Hillary's big wins in Ohio and Texas last night, some super-delegates are already suggesting that a continued contest risks damaging the party and are calling on Howard Dean and other party leaders to be ready to intervene should the race get dirtier:
"Despite Obama's impressive victories in February, Clinton's comeback is based on sowing political seeds of doubt," said Donna Brazile, a Democratic strategist and one of nearly 800 party leaders known as superdelegates for their ability to determine the nomination. "In order to clinch the nomination, he must anticipate the worst attacks ever."...Some superdelegates are bracing themselves to intervene on Obama's behalf if necessary.
"If these attacks are contrasts based on policy differences, there is no need to stop the race or halt the debate," Brazile said. "But, if this is more division, more diversion from the issues and more of the same politics of personal destruction, chairman Dean and other should be on standby."
Consider that a harbinger of what we're likely to hear from other super-delegates if the race gets uglier without significantly altering the underlying pledged-delegate imbalance between the two candidates.
One outstanding question today: Will that bloc of super-dels who were reported to be ready to bolt to Obama last night materialize, or did Hillary's wins staunch that bleeding for now?
Late Update: The Hotline has an Obama spokesperson flatly denying that any kind of bloc of super-dels was set to get behind Obama.















Also in that article:
"A senior Obama adviser, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Obama's team will respond to Tuesday's results by going negative on Clinton — raising questions about her tax records and the source of donations to the Clinton presidential library, among skeletons in the Clintons' past."
That would certainly be something new for the Obama campaign. Not taking the high road anymore, or can he do this as a question of integrity and not as a smear campaign?
March 5, 2008 9:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good. If Hillary's going to go nuclear on a fellow Democrat, then he's got to respond. Let's face it, entire careers have been built on untangling the Clintons' many ethical messes - and the media sure as hell isn't pressing her on any of her most recent transgressions - so it's not as if Obama has to stretch to call her integrity into question.
Is it really going negative to call a spade a spade? If the Clintons are liars, and possibly criminals, why is it out of bounds to say so?
March 5, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is such a typical sentiment of an Obama supporter. When Obama says he can go up against McCain because he has better judgment than Hillary, he's making a solid case. When Hillary says she can go up against McCain because she has a lifetime of experience, she's endorsing McCain, it's a horrible smear.
When Clinton sends out a heatlh insurance mailer asserting Obama will leave out people in his health plan because he doesn't require a mandate, it's a horrible, viscious tactic. When Obama sends out a "Harry & Louise" redux mailer, he's right on, a great fighting candidate.
So go on, keep "calling a spade a spade". We learned last night that a lot of Democrats still really like Hillary, and that the tides have turned and late deciders are breaking big time for Clinton. You can whine all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that Obama plays the same politics as Clinton and the nation is finally starting to recognize that.
March 5, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is not that she compared her experience to Obamas, using her standard lie that she has more. It wasw that she compared Obama's experience unfavorably with McCains that is the problem. How do you mjanage to blind yourself to this distinction?
March 5, 2008 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your point is, I believe, that Clinton handed McCain a talking point should Obama win the nomination. Well, I don't see how this is any different than when Obama goes on record calling Clinton divisive, old politics, more of the same. He has handed McCain several talking points should Clinton become the nominee. Hell, the Republicans have been calling Hillary divisive for years--it's a character attack, experience is not a character attack, it's a qualifications attack. So what he's done is worse!
I'll ask you a question:
"How do you mjanage to blind yourself to this distinction?"
March 5, 2008 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
This argument is nonsense. McCain doesn't need anyone to hand him talking points, there's a whole smear industry that can meet his needs in that area. The issue, it seems to me, is that going negative will (has) split the party and hand McCain a victory. At this point, I think Obama supporters are going to have a tough time with Hillary, and many Clinton supporters have made it plain they'd prefer McCain to Obama. We've already lost and the damage may be permanent. Both candidates are now damaged goods (or soon will be) and if I were Howard Dean I'd beon the horn to Al Gore.
This just makes me sick. Democrats should have taken the White House easily this year. It ain't gonna happen, folks. Not unless (and maybe even if) the party can find a unity candidate and take the convention in an entirely different direction.
March 5, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a sad fact that Americans (who say they hate negative ads) listen to them! It may be "negative" to tell the truth about your opponent, but we need to know what's what before we vote. I have always suspected the Clintons have several secrets yet they don't want exposed....but even if something horrible were to come out, and HRC was the nominee, I'd have to hold my nose and vote for her. Bad as she is, the alternative is unthinkable. McCain is ignorant of everything except war...that's all he cares about, all he understands. WE CAN'T AFFORD ANY MORE WAR.
March 5, 2008 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
What makes you think we won't get more war from Clinton? Her husband engineered the phony Kosovo war, which was premised on saving the "peace-loving" Kosovars from the "evil" Serbs. It's the same template Bush used to trump up the Iraq war where we needed to save the "peace-loving" Shia and Kurds from the "evil" Sunnis. The first war ended up with a Kosovar campaign against Serbs just like the Iraq war has ended up with a Shia campaign against the Sunni and now a Turk campaign against the Kurds. She's just as much a messianic war monger as Bush, but she will sell it using a Democrat-oriented framework.
March 5, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pray tell, how is it a smear to ask a candidate to release their tax return?
March 5, 2008 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Will that bloc of super-dels who were reported to be ready to bolt to Obama last night materialize, or did Hillary's wins staunch that bleeding for now?
A third option is that that rumored bloc never existed. Indeed, the Obama campaign is denying it.
March 5, 2008 9:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Consider that a harbinger of what we're likely to hear from other super-delegates if the race gets uglier without significantly altering the underlying pledged-delegate imbalance between the two candidates."
While the race may well get uglier, it's basically mathematically impossible for her to "significantly alter the underlying pledged-delegate imbalance between the two candidates."
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/4/162042/3056/80/468751
From this DK diary: "I ran the numbers for winning all 82 races (70 CDs + Guam + the 11 statewide splits) by a whopping 24.9%. Her gain? Only 110 delegates. Obama still leads by 50."
March 5, 2008 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am afraid that what Donna Brazile said sounds like a call to race rioting and voter disenfranchisement. This is Republican behavior and not acceptable in the context of the history of the Democratic party's commitment to making votes count.
March 5, 2008 9:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Whoa. Not at all what she's saying and injecting race into this misses the point she's raising. This is about the tone and tenor of the campaign over the next 7 weeks and the impact it has on the Democratic Party and it's (now dwindling) chances in the fall. Not about race or voter disenfranchisement and to suggest otherwise is to distract folks from the real issue.
March 5, 2008 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Donna Brazille fired the first shot in Obama's race war when she declared that "fairy tale" was a racist slur.
The woman is a racist liar.
Why do Obama supporters insist that the primary elections be cut short?
Are they afraid that Obama can't win on his own?
All Obama has to do is gain a majority of delegates.
Why is that so hard for his fans to grasp?
Why don't they devote their energies to thagt end rather than wasting our time trying to force a premature end to the contest?
That is so Republican, so Florida 2000.
March 5, 2008 9:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
JTHB, believe it or not, I sort of agree with you. I am a staunch Obama supporter; however, at this point, I think everybody needs to step away and let the dust settle, see where things are, and let Obama's campaign retool to see what they need to do to respond better. I think that forcing Hillary out now would be extremely detrimental to our chances of beating McCain and it will disenfranchise a WHOLE lot of Clinton supporters who will feel like they were cheated out of the chance to see her win the nomination (although, given the math, it's hard to see how she can do that without the supers stepping in anyway). I think Brazile's statements are premature, and I think we have to wait until all of the delegate numbers are in, and probably until after Pennsylvania, before anybody intervenes to shut this thing down.
March 5, 2008 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for your reasonable look at what is happening in this contest.
March 5, 2008 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Although neither can now get to the magic number of pledged delegates, I think it's really beside the point right now. Obama did not handle things well in the past couple of weeks and that's simply not a good thing.
We have two people who have enough money and volunteers to go into every state. I think we need to do that--including a do-over in Michigan and Florida. It's fair; it's sensible; and it gives all of us time to evaluate and perhaps re-evaluate.
Donna, IMHO, is out of line. I think Obama bumbled the NAFTA/Canada response and it hurt. I have seen little improvement in the Obama outreach to the Latino voters--Texas looks like California, doesn't it? I also don't see any steady holding of voter groups by Obama--like the over 60 or females. All of these things need improvement and I want to see that improvement in the results for the upcoming primary/caucus.
The Rezko stuff is not going away. Obama will need to address this repeatedly with great patience and understanding. There's nothing wrong with doing that--it simply isn't the media's fault or Hillary's fault.
If the opposing campaign brings up "dirty" stuff, then the Obama campaign needs to handle it effectively. Whining is NOT effective.
March 5, 2008 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well said, dear Cube. I agree entirely.
March 5, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was shocked and awed by Barack's response to questions about something that, relative to HRC's misdealings, are relatively minor. She can't even release her tax returns?
But to get annoyed by 8 questions?
I say this as a staunch Obama supporter.
@Viking: I was thinking the same thing on my drive home. If she gets the nom because of superdelegates, I will vote for other races, just not hers.
Members of my family have died (WWII) to ensure that I can vote; I won't ever give that up.
March 5, 2008 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
WHY THE CLINTONS WON'T BE RELEASING THEIR TAX RETURNS?...
http://thememlingindex.com/hillary_clinton_net_worth-wealth.html
March 5, 2008 9:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
"But, if this is more division, more diversion from the issues and more of the same politics of personal destruction, chairman Dean and other should be on standby."
Uh, news flash to Donna and Democrats everywhere, it's not a matter of if, but when. Clinton has already shown she isn't afraid to use race, fear, and perpetuate flat out bullshit to win the nomination.
Clinton isn't a Satanic lesbian, as far as I know, but there are real contrasts between her and Obama and voters need to know about those.
March 5, 2008 9:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Someone in a earlier post stated that, despite her wins last night, Hillary is fighting a losing battle. I think it would be more accurate to say that Hillary's winning a losing battle, and will go on winning it all he way to Denver. I think we can expect to see Obama's poll numbers continue their downward spiral in the days and weeks ahead. Sure, he'll maintain an anemic delegate lead, but as time goes on (and time is no longer his friend) he'll seem increasingly vulnerable as a candidate. Meanwhile, Hillary will intensify her negative assaults, so that by the time April rolls around no one will be able to distinguish the man from the mud. This, to put it mildly, will sow doubts in the minds of the Democratic sachem. This past week revealed an astonishing ineptness in the Obama P.R. campaign. It was almost as if he had gone on vacation and left the field entirely to Hillary. She dominated on every front, and his attempts to parry her thrusts were not only ineffectual, but were downright lame. It's silly to try to dismiss Hillary's domination as nothing more than dirty politics. Dirty politics is politics, always was, always will be. If you think Obama is going to win the nomination or general election by "standing above the fray" -- well then, get prepared for humiliation. It's going to be extremely difficult for Obama to recover anything like the "shine" he enjoyed going into Ohio and Texas, and if he doesn't start giving like for like, he will not get the nomination. Ah, but then Mr. Nice Guy will be transformed into Mr. Politics-as-Usual. In other words, by the time Denver rolls around Hillary will have won her losing battle. Then the question will be how this increasingly hateful contest can possibly be redeemed.
Dark horse, anyone?
March 5, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I think we can expect to see Obama's poll numbers continue their downward spiral in the days and weeks ahead. Sure, he'll maintain an anemic delegate lead, but as time goes on (and time is no longer his friend) he'll seem increasingly vulnerable as a candidate."
What poll number slide? Wasn't he behind significantly in both Ohio and Texas a few weeks ago?
March 5, 2008 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess you haven't been following the polls. His surge in momentum stalled out about eight days ago, hovered in mid-air for awhile, then began a rather steep decent about three days ago. That's why he lost last night. The shift has been quite dramatic. Three days ago he was 8 points ahead of Hillary in the Gallup tracking poll. Yesterday he was dead even. Today he'll be lucky if he's less than 3 points behind. That poll number slide.
March 5, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Obama camp has already said the Brokaw report was wrong.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/03/its_wrong.html
That was posted last night
March 5, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
elonepb- that's in fact the one way that he can actually square the circle. Painting Clinton as a tool of the old, corrupt politics as usual actually reinforces his positive message of change rather than undercutting it. I'm encouraged to hear this.
March 5, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
He's definitely got a frame to fit this whole thing into, I just wonder if he will go there. I think it can be done and done effectively. Though I don't think the Clinton folks are going to like it.
March 5, 2008 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, talk about the most disingenuous thing I've ever heard -- Hillary might actually come back and win this thing, so we need to END THE PRIMARY NOW!!! The more Obama supporters whine that Hillary needs to drop out because the "math" is against her, the more people start to realize that the math is bogus. Obama's "superdelegates are undemocratic" argument is pretty much already out the window.
March 5, 2008 9:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
So how did the Clintons do last night? According to the standard laid down by the Clintons, not very well at all.
The math doesn't lie. People do. Check the numbers and you'll see that nothing changed last night, except Clinton finally won. She's now 3-12 over the last 15. 14-27. She's still 150+ pledged delegates in the hole.
It's the math. Deal with it.
March 5, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent point. And in the same 2/13/08 Mark Penn quote:
Again and again, this race has shown that it is voters and delegates who matter, not the pundits or perceived "momentum."
So as Penn also opened the piece with:
Pretty simple. And, for once, Mark Penn was right.
March 5, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
"race rioting" What planet do you live on?
If we make votes count then the pledged delegates are what counts. Here's ABC's Mark Halperin's take on last night's results.
Here is a good analysis of the remaining primary states and the delegate math:
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1719614,00.html
Clinton Wins Big, But Math is Troubling
Wednesday, Mar. 05, 2008 By MARK HALPERIN
Hillary Clinton, Ohio
Hillary Clinton's popular vote victories in Texas and Ohio fundamentally change the race for the Democratic presidential nomination in at least one important way: she's still in the race for
the nomination. Clinton's long, arduous campaign might have ended abruptly if Obama delivered a knock-out blow in either state.
Hillary Clinton may have won Texas and Ohio last night, but to hear the Obama campaign tell it, .
Instead, Clinton will fight on for at least the next seven weeks,
until Pennsylvania votes on April 22. To get an idea of how long a
period that is in political years, the Iowa caucuses — remember them?
— were only eight weeks ago.
.....
But the March 4 results have not changed Obama's strongest talking
point (and reality point) for why Clinton should exit the Democratic
race: Math. It appears numerically impossible for her to overtake his
lead among elected delegates.
Neither Obama nor Clinton can win the 2,025 delegates required for
nomination without some combination of elected delegates (those chosen
in primaries and caucuses) and superdelegates (party and elected
officials who are automatic delegates to the Democrats' Denver
convention this summer). About 800 of the approximately 4,000
delegates are superdelegates and several hundred of them are still
uncommitted to either candidate.
Given the remaining contests — many with electorates favorable to
Obama — Obama's existing hundred-plus delegate lead, and the rules by
which Democrats apportion delegates, it is almost a political and
mathematical certainty that Obama will have an elected delegate lead
at the end of the process, barring dramatic, unforeseen circumstances.
Some of the upcoming states to vote — including Wyoming on Saturday
and Mississippi on March 11 — are likely to swing strongly for Obama,
and certainly show no signs of being Clinton blowouts. The same goes
for North Carolina on May 6, and Oregon on May 20.
Other contests might be more favorable for Clinton (Pennsylvania,
Indiana, Guam, West Virginia, Montana, and South Dakota), but even
decisive wins in those states — say, in the 60-40 range—would still
leave her behind in both elected delegates and the overall count. That
remains true even if Clinton somehow succeeds in getting the disputed
delegates from Florida and Michigan seated at the convention.
Clinton's only hope of winning a majority of the delegates is to
overtake Obama's elected delegate lead by winning the bulk of the
remaining superdelegates.
This is the heart of Clinton's multi-dimensional challenge. Obama has
of late signed up more superdelegates than Clinton in part because
they are swayed by his lead in elected delegates. Yet unless there is
a significant change in the overall dynamic — a major Obama blunder or
scandal for example — he is likely to continue accruing superdelegates
regardless of Clinton's big March 4 wins. Also, the act of securing
the nomination with unelected convention votes could be considered by
many Obama supporters as highly undemocratic, embittering and dividing
the party on the eve of the general election.
So Clinton lives to run for another seven weeks. But if you believe in
the power of numbers, the candidate of inevitability is Barack Obama.
March 5, 2008 9:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am afraid that what Donna Brazile said sounds like a call to race rioting..... Sancho
Are the Clintonites already shamelessly race baiting?
Are these people really tryinhg to make it impossible for me to show up next November?
March 5, 2008 9:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
"A senior Obama adviser, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Obama's team will respond to Tuesday's results by going negative on Clinton — raising questions about her tax records and the source of donations to the Clinton presidential library, among skeletons in the Clintons' past."
That would certainly be something new for the Obama campaign. Not taking the high road anymore, or can he do this as a question of integrity and not as a smear campaign?
I think he can do it and not come off as negative. The argument is that if Hillary is the nominee the voters need to know what is in those tax documents and White House records becuse if their is some skeletons hidden within, then she will torpedo the chances of the Democrats to win in November. In essence, he can make an argument that the voters have a right to know. Which isn't a negative argument, but a realistic argument.
Also, Obama should ramp up his own attack on the media to hammer this point. He should say that she has now received a free pass on this issue for far too long and that someone really needs to figure out what is going on here. It doesn't take all that much to release tax documents and there is no known reason for why the White House records haven't yet been released.
Obama needs to change the conversation and retake the narrative and I really do not see any other way of going about it.
March 5, 2008 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with you on Clinton's tax returns being a legitimate issue. Clinton should put all of her cards on the table before the convention. So far, she has had a free pass on what I consider to be one of the most potentially damaging issues in a general election.
Bill Clinton certainly has a right to earn a living but a lot of voters will be turned off if he has been paid big bucks by Middle East billionaires with ties to radical Islamists. We already know that Bill advised the Dubai company that wanted to buy US ports. I'd like to hear him say he was not paid for his advice.
For some reason, the Dems have ignored the recent NY Times and Blooomberg News stories about Bill, the Canadian financial magnate and a Central Asian dictator.
I suppose the reason that Hillary is getting a pass on Bill's financial affairs is that no Dem wants to be on record questioning a former president of the United States. John McCain and the GOP will have no such compunction.
Message to Hillary: Liberate those tax returns!
March 5, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think its time to break out the 527 to go on the attack against the clintons. Obama can disavow the 527 all day long and decry such politics and then reap the benefits. Back up the dump truck and dump it on the clintons.
By the way clinton cultists, congrats on your candidate winning yesterday. She'll never win the presidency and will bring down the democratic party in the process. Congrats.
March 5, 2008 9:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Donna's right, but I'm afraid that she and her colleagues don't have many options this morning.
Obama's pledged delegate still seems insurmountable, but nobody can reasonably ask Clinton to bow out now, after blowing out Ohio so completely. Nor can one realistically expect her to stop using attack tactics, when they're proving to be her best weapon in such a competitive contest.
I don't see an endgame here. We can survive a fight through Pennsylvania but it's not likely that that contest will settle anything, unless there's another reversal and Obama wins hugely. So it'll be on to the next state, and the next...
It we go to a brokered convention, one of three things will happen:
Obama leads elected delegates and is nominated but is badly damaged by the primary fighting. McCain is strongly favored in the fall.
Obama leads on elected delegates but the party chooses Clinton instead. In this case, McCain wins easily and the party splinters badly.
Clinton wins elected delegates and is nominated. Even the Clinton people don't believe this is likely. If it somehow happens, I believe the party will unite around her, but with enough bruised feelings that McCain is again strongly favored.
So how does the party prevent this bleak outcome? I don't know the answer, but I do think ruling out the second scenario -- a superdelegate chosen candidate -- is a good path towards ending the primary process early. I understand what Josh and others write about wanting to choose which ever candiate looks stronger at the time of the convention, but I don't think the party can survive the split such a decision would result in.
March 5, 2008 9:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good comments, OhioGuy, except perhaps for this: "after blowing out Ohio so completely"
It is strange to call that a blowout when, say, taking Survey USA polling over the past month, she went from a 17 point lead less than four weeks ago......to drop seven points of that lead and then win by, em, a 10 point lead.
March 5, 2008 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did I miss something, or did the Clintons fail to cut Obama's delegate lead to 25 as they predicted? How many net delegates did she pick up with her 3 victories?
It's about the math folks. Ignore the spin. Look at the numbers.
3 of 4.
3 of 15.
14 of 41.
March 5, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are so right. I woke up this morning thinking I'm tired of this nonsense. It's over, Clinton can't beat him. So why should I listen to her campaign tell me why she should be winning, or worse why he shouldn't be winning? Seems like a huge waste of time.
March 5, 2008 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
It must be early, because I can't figure out what those numbers represent.
(I know I'll have a "Doh!" moment here...)
March 5, 2008 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton record in the March 4th Primaries.
Clinton record after Super Tuesday.
Clinton record for total Democratic primaries and caucuses.
March 5, 2008 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
As some have said recently, if it was Hillary Clinton that had won 25 (possibly 26) elections out of a total of 40, that had the lead in delegate counts which include super delegates and she had won the popular vote so far – the media and the Democrat establishment would have asked Barack Obama to drop out of the race for the ‘good’ of the Party long ago.
The establishment and media are not only allowing Hillary to stay in the race, they are now talking about ‘saving her’ by having Do-Overs in Florida (population of mostly seniors – Hillary’s strength) and in Michigan even though the DNC denied them delegate counts if they went ahead and voted early against the DNC rules. We all know she won those States previously. How dare they!
March 5, 2008 9:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
"If these attacks are contrasts based on policy differences, there is no need to stop the race or halt the debate," Brazile said. "But, if this is more division, more diversion from the issues and more of the same politics of personal destruction, chairman Dean and other should be on standby."
I don't always agree with her, but she's right on the money here.
Up until now, Obama has criticized Clinton on issue grounds -- her vote for the Iraq war, the health insurance mandate, flip-flopping on NAFTA -- while Clinton has attacked Obama on personal grounds -- not ready to be commander in chief, all he's done is give a speech, etc.
Yes, we know Republicans will also engage in the politics of personal destruction, but why should Hillary do the job for them?
I do think if she continues this approach -- and there's little doubt she will as the campaign will attribute her victories to their getting down and dirty -- then turnabout would be more than fair play. And her vulnerabilities on these fronts are greater than Obama's -- the Norman Hsus and sleazy fundraising, the various Clinton administration scandals from Travelgate to the Marc Rich pardon, the tax returns, Bill Clinton's Kazakh dealings, the hidden White House records. All the things to remind us that their record on veracity and integrity is questionable at best, and that Clinton fatigue is what awaits us if she gets the nomination.
I hope it doesn't come to this, but it may have to. And while Howard Dean and the party elders may well decide to intervene to keep things from getting uglier, I can't imagine the Clinton campaign responding in any way other than giving him their middle finger. Because they still have a sense of entitlement and it's still all about them, not the larger good.
March 5, 2008 9:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is the one playing the race card. And so is Donna B. Other than his phantom position in 2002, it is the only poltical card he has right now. He can only win by demonizing Hillary and his research team has figured out she has white skin and he does not. So they are going with that. This tactic is good enough to fool highly educated liberals but it wont play in the GE. The general voter is not so uneducated, politically. Liberal, academic identity politics is not a winning strategy in the long run. And, honestly. Do you really think the Clintons are racists? They have a longer and better track record on these issues than Obama. Ask Stephanie Tubb Jones--the one brave enough to have challenged Bush's election in 04.
March 5, 2008 9:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Any reason why you keep trying to inject race into this? I mean other than because you are an ass?
March 5, 2008 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, sancho, because Obama's path to victory in the general will be due to his continued demonizing of whites. That's a can't miss strategy.
March 5, 2008 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Q: Who decides who gets the democratic nomination?
A: Delegates.
Q: Who has the most Delegates?
A: Obama.
Q: How many Net delegates did Hillary gain on Obama last night.
A: Less than 10.
Q: What would that leave Obama's delegate lead at?
A: Between 149 to 140.
She can't beat him. The math is not there. Sorry to rain on your parade.
March 5, 2008 9:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
"She can't beat him. The math is not there."
Absolutely right. But she can do McCain's job for him and leave him a weakened general election candidate. Which appears to be exactly what her strategy is. Because if Obama were to be the nominee and lose the general, then Hillary could run again in 2012.
March 5, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Correction:
She can't beat him in pledged delegates. It's pretty clear she's going to go to Denver and argue that she deserves the nomination anyway.
The real question is: Are the Supers buying into this "Ohio counts more than the previous 12 elections" line?
March 5, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
One thing that's clear:
Obama's got start hitting back harder now.
This will be good practice for the GOP.
Hillary can't win, but he has to show he can hit her hard.
Goooooooooooooooooooobama!!!!!!!!
March 5, 2008 9:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Now this is what I am talking about:
``We have not hesitated to draw distinctions between the candidates and we'll continue to do that," said Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod. "If Sen. Clinton wants to take the debate to various places, we'll join that debate. We'll do it on our terms and in our own way but if she wants to make issues like ethics and disclosure and law firms and real estate deals and all that stuff issues, as I've said before I don't know why they'd want to go there, but I guess that's where they'll take the race.''
Break out the dump truck.
March 5, 2008 9:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
In reference to David Kurtz's post "Enough Already."
Yes, Obama's supporters are whining. Remember, Obama brought new voters into the process based on changing the status quo in partisan politics. And they can take their votes and walk away from the process just as easily as the came in.
Hillary has learned through out her turbulent career to never give up regardless of the fly-back for those around her. She has learned to never say never, this time she is risking the hopes, and aspirations of the Democratic Party and the women who have placed their hopes and aspirations in her. She is willing play brinksmanship and to fight to the very end, regardless of the cost to the Party.
- Just a few weeks ago Bill Clinton said a race between Hillary and McCain would be the most civil in recent history.
- And just this week Hillary brought out the Kitchen sink against her Democratic Opponent to redefine the lows in "dirty tactics" - (Praising McCain on National Security over Obama, employing Foreign Powers in negative campaign strategy, broadcasting fake Breaking News Items, feeding the flames of racism with the release of the turban photos)
I believe she deserves to be opposed by Democrats with as much voracity as she has shown towards Democrats and her Democratic Opponent.
She wants a fight. LETS FIGHT!
A VERY DANGEROUS PROPOSITION FOR ALL THOSE INVOLVED.
March 5, 2008 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Its unfortunate that we have to get dragged into the mud by Hillary, but since she has demanded it she must have it. Perhaps it has to work this way for Obama - he will have to find a way to hit back harder than he has so far, while maintaining the dignity and authenticity which have attracted us to his campaign in the first place.
March 5, 2008 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
"this time she is risking the hopes, and aspirations of the Democratic Party and the women who have placed their hopes and aspirations in her."
What in the heck are you talking about? We women will now lose all hope? You make no sense. I want her to win because she will make a better President than Obama. But my hope will be ok if she quits, but I will lose it if she stays in the race? Huh?
"I believe she deserves to be opposed by Democrats with as much voracity as she has shown towards Democrats"
Guess what? Hillary is getting more Democrats to vote for her than Obama is.
March 5, 2008 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
One more thing that is bugging me. The big states that Clinton won (by a slim majority) are solid blue states. They will vote Dem in November. I'm tired of her supporters trying to spin the notion that Obama can't win the big states so somehow that gives her the right to pretend she is still a contender.
March 5, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/03/breaking-news-h.html
The continual flame wars between Hillbots and Obamatons is going to do nothing but send undecided voters and disillusioned voters to John McCain, who despite being a NeoCon in moderate clothing, is sitting back and waiting until he gets a firm opponent, lobbing label-bombs at our party.
Hillary is right. We need to get these two on the same ticket. We need to convince both of them to stop attacking one another and just let the rest of the primaries (including new FL and MI) be on the issues. Whoever is ahead at the end of a POSITIVE ONLY process is at the top of the ticket, whoever loses gets VP.
The key factor is that we can't hamstring either candidate anymore. If the people decide Hillary is who they want, than we Obama supporters must respect that and support her 100%. Of course, the converse is absolutely true too.
I will admit that Hillary's attacks of the last week have been effective; however, at this point on they serve to do nothing but further hurt the party if Obama happens to win the most delegates and Super-delegates.
A super ticket would solve all of our collective problems. He brings youth and inspiration and an ability to put swing states in play, she brings ability to appeal to bread and butter democrats and industrial states. Rather than being happy with winning the same 10 states, this team could win in KS, FL, NC, IA, CO, MO, OH, IN, GA, maybe even TX.
Obviously I'm going to support an Obama/Clinton ticket, but as of this moment (currently 7:01 am PST) I ain't saying another bad thing about Hillary because she *might* be our party's nominee.
I hope that Ms. Clinton (congratulations on last night, by the way) is serious about a super ticket and that they can find a positive and uniting way to bring it about without tearing the party apart. Their ideas are 95% identical, they bring very different strengths to the table. Together they motivate the Democratic base like nobody else can in this time of need.
March 5, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
A 'super ticket' with Obama is the only way Hillary would possibly justify winning by getting super delegates to go against the popular vote. She is going to argue that even though Obama has won more pledged delegates, the supers should maker her the nominee out of seniority, and in return she will run with Obama as VP. But if I were Obama, I would consider the taint on his brand of new politics by capitulating to such a scenario. I really do not think Hillary has as good of a chance against McCain with her high negatives and lack of independent support. Obama might be better off waiting then for 2012. Versus Hillary, McCain wins with conservatives energized against her more than for him, and with positive support of moderates and independents who do like him more than Hillary.
March 5, 2008 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the only thing Dean and elected officials who actually care about the Democratic Party can and should do is try to convince the Clintons to stop trying to poison the well for Obama. If she beats him on the merits, fine. But if they continue with this crap about him not being qualified to be Commander in Chief (as if ANYONE has ever been qualified before they took on the job), then I suggest Dean, Gore, Edwards and others confront her with the idea that THEY will hold a press conference demanding that she release her tax returns and her White House records. Somebody's got to play hardball other than the spittle spewing Matthews maniac!
March 5, 2008 10:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Making the case that he (or she) is not PREPARED for the job is a hardball tactic, but valid. What I think is egregious is Clinton equating her experience with McCain's, and saying that Obama will just bring a speech. Totally over the line.
But as to anyone ever being pre-qualified to become Commander in Chief, of course there have been some:
Washington
Jackson
Grant
T. Roosevelt
Eisenhower
March 5, 2008 2:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
DARK HORSE, def. 3, Webster's New World Dictionary: "in politics, a person who gets or may get the nomination unexpectedly, often as the result of a compromise. "
In this case, an example might be, oh, John Edwards....
March 5, 2008 10:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I think he can do it and not come off as negative. The argument is that if Hillary is the nominee the voters need to know what is in those tax documents and White House records becuse if their is some skeletons hidden within, then she will torpedo the chances of the Democrats to win in November. In essence, he can make an argument that the voters have a right to know. Which isn't a negative argument, but a realistic argument."
I agree, he has been good at counterpunching when he chooses to do it. He's not as tone-deaf as Hillary, who often hits the wrong note and looks ugly when going negative ("The fun part" as she once put it with a creepy smile)
March 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Journalists should be more careful with the word "comeback," as painfully noted in the AP excerpt above. Clinton's win in Ohio was anything but a "comeback" for she was *never behind* in Ohio.
March 5, 2008 10:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Barack Obama's entire campaign has been an exercise in tearing down Hillary Clinton while over-hyping his own resume, asking you to take it on faith -- literally -- that he can do what he says he can do. Their policy differences have always been pretty negligible and he's been attacking Hillary Clinton personally on an almost daily basis, calling into question her "judgement" -- a fair enough question perhaps, but no fairer than questions about his own lack of experience or potential credibility as custodian of the national security -- as well as making a lot of outright distortions about her fundraising, blaming her for having once been the victim of a massive right-wing smear campaign and trying to tar her with guilt by association for everything the US government has done that Democrats didn't like in the past 50 years.
But that's politics, as Donna Brazile should well know. They arguably did as bad or worse to Bill Bradley when she was heading up Al Gore's campaign in 1999-2000. So I guess my question for her would be, why is playing a little hardball only a bad things when Hillary Clinton does it? I can't recall ever hearing her concern-trolling on Barack Obama for any of the above.
March 5, 2008 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
As much of a political junky as I am, I'm just about sick of listening to the media jibber jabber speculations, i.e. 'Clinton wins back whites' -- as if the same mob of people is running from state to state to vote in these primaries! While Obama did win over more whites in Wisconsin, Clinton never lost 'the whites' in Ohio in the first place!
March 5, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, now that Clinton has demonstrated that she can win Ohio, New York, New Jersey, California, Massachusettes, Florida and Michigan, I think Barak Obama should consider dropping out of the race in the name of party unity. Obviously, he cannot win amongst Democrats in Blue States let alone beat a Republican.
March 5, 2008 10:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
The question is whether or not Obama can win those blue states when up against McCain compared to whether of not Clinton can win the red states that Obama has won when she competes against McCain.
Is Obama going to win California against McCain? Yes.
Is Obama going to win New York against McCain? Yes.
Is Clinton going to win Virginia against McCain? No.
Is Clinton going to win Iowa against McCain? No.
March 5, 2008 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Your argument is weak for a few reasons. First and foremost, she only won Florida and Michigan because (a) Obama did not campaign in Florida as per an agreement that ALL candidates made; and (b) he wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan. So you can discount those two right away, regardless of the ridiculous spin of the Clinton campaign - they will not be seated without a "do-over". The other states are solidly blue and will vote Democratic no matter what in November (with the exception of Ohio, which will most likely go to a Democrat in November because McCain is a big free-trade guy). Obama has won more swing states than she has, and those are the states that will be the most important in November. He will also pull many more independents and even liberal Republicans than she will. There's absolutely no reason for him to drop out now - he's ahead in the delegate count by a fairly substantial margin and there are a lot of primaries yet to come that are very favorable to him.
March 5, 2008 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
To my mind, what Donna Brazile is doing (and has been doing for at least in a month in her attempts to shut down the primary process) is trying to create, rather than describe, reality.
Her statement makes two key claims:
1. She asserts, first, that attacks on identity (which for Brazile always means race, though it could for others include class, gender, and religion, for instance) are being made.
2. Because of this, the DNC needs to step in and stop the vote.
This is not her attempt to describe what is happening but rather her attempt to create and insist upon that reality. That is, she is not standing above personal attacks here (which she ought to be doing), but rather is encouraging others to perpetrate (or, equally, claim that others are perpetrating) such attacks so that she can then insist that voting must stop. This is an implied call to arms for those who want to short circuit the process.
March 5, 2008 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
This was the Democrats' election to lose, since there was no way the Republicans could win it, not after eight years of George W. Bush. But that just might be what happens.
First, the Republicans nominated their strongest candidate. McCain is a guy few Republicans really liked, a man who was almost completely written off last summer. But due to infighting - and the fact that the other candidates were so bad that even Republicans couldn't stand them - McCain got the nomination after all. He's still not popular with their base, but he can pull in the independents if there's not an equally-popular Democratic candidate.
And now, the Democrats are eating their own. Clinton's negatives are so high that she can't win against McCain. And she can't win the Democratic nomination without the dirty trick of seating Michigan and Florida AND persuading the super-delegates to ignore the primary and caucus voters. Do you think Obama supporters will just shrug that off? My vote counted this year, and I don't want anyone taking that away. So what does she really think she's doing?
Furthermore, if she can't get the nomination through dirty tricks, her negative campaigning will really hurt Barack Obama in November. That's not because she's saying anything the Republicans won't, but because they can now point to her and say, "See, even the Democrats admit this." After all, she came right out and said that McCain had the experience to be commander-in-chief, but Obama didn't. If she was conducting a positive campaign (as Obama is), this extended nomination process wouldn't be a problem. But she's not. And since this 'kitchen sink' plan seems to have worked, we'll see a lot more of it from now on.
This was the Democrats' election to lose,... and I'm wondering if we're doing just that.
March 5, 2008 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
While I agree that the Dems have the wit, will and skill to yank defeat from the jaws of defeat, allow me to present another scenario.
The current ebb and flow between Obama and Clinton continues to the convention. Despite the best efforts of Dean and others, the super delegates also remain split. A last minute re-do of FL and MI produce yet another split.
The balloting begins with no clear favorite. No one wins on the first ballot.
Edwards presents himself as an alternative for the second ballot. He gets some votes from both sides but the delegates remain deadlocked, now among 3 candidates.
Going into the 3rd ballot Clinton offers Obama the v-p spot. He says no, offers it to Clinton. She says no. Both offer it to Edwards. He says no. Delegates start to panic as the third ballot stays deadlocked.
Delegates from various states begin to murmur about Gore. A draft develops. Gore remains silent.
In the 4th ballot Gore wipes out Edwards, and is a close third to Obama and Clinton. Edwards withdraws, endorses Gore. Kennedy brokers a deal, endorses Gore. Gore agrees to the draft on condition that Obama or Clinton endorses him.
The tv ratings are through the roof. Bigger than MASH and Dallas combined.
Obama endorses Gore. Gore wins on the 5th ballot. Picks Obama as his VP. Clinton(s) stand with the ticket. Convention goes crazy.
Gore-Obama sweep to victory, carrying huge majorities in the House and Senate. Party healed, nation on the rebound, media happy, McCain melts down.
Fairy tale or possible solution??
March 5, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course I meant yanking defeat from the jaws of VICTORY...
Maybe I should get some sleep before I blog.
March 5, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary staying in is a good thing from Obama and good for the chances of Democrats winning in November.
Clinton staying in and fighting to the to bitter end (with a Clinton, the ends are always bitter) keeps Obama sharp, focus and keeps his campaign on its game. They will need all of that come November.
The very nature of the attacks that Clinton is making against Obama are 1) the same as the attacks that McCain will make and 2) are losing attacks for Clinton in November. Obama is inexperienced, possibly but so is Clinton. McCain isn't going to play nice and let Clinton slide on that, "Her only real credential is that she's a second term Senator from New York."
If Gore had had a toughened campaign staff, then the tragedy of the Florida recounts might have gone better.
Let them fight on.
March 5, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think your analysis is pretty spot on. Obama has to show and prove that he's the guy to put Democrats in November. The question ultimately comes down to how he goes about doing that and whether Clinton further ups the ante such that it results in MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). The latter is not an outcome any Democrat or Democratic-leaning Independent should ever desire. I think this is the crux of what Donna is arguing.
March 5, 2008 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good point. The 'your child will be murdered in bed' if Obama is president and the 'not a Muslim - as far as we know' moves are likely what Republicans will throw at him too. In this sense I suppose he does have to show he can defend himself better, and hit her back harder for throwing this stuff at him.
March 5, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
He MUST respond forcefully or powerfully or this thing may start to slip away. If he does not respond, he's doing the same thing Kerry did when he was swiftboated, and we know how that turned out.
He doesn't have to lower himself to her level. But he MUST fight.
And yes, others can take care of the dirty stuff.
Clinton will accuse him of hypocrisy no matter where the attacks come from. But a Clinton calling someone a hypocrite is like Hitler calling someone an anti-Semite.
March 5, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Donna Brazile and Howard Dean calling the shots? Get real.
Blame the DNC for the mess the Dems are in. Who was the genius at the DNC that declared that the most appropriate punishment for a REPUBLICAN scheduling decision in Florida was to disenfranchise DEMOCRATS at their convention?
The DNC could have found some other, more proportionate remedy (like bad seats at the Convention).
March 5, 2008 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree: time to go nuclear on Hillary. I am disgusted that she was willing to connive with McCain to use a leak from Stephen Harper's Canadian government to damage Obama. For me, that was the lightbulb over the haed moment when I realized that she will say and do anything to get the nomination, including working with the Republicans to damage a fellow Democrat and the party. She's poison. Time to go negative. Norman Hsu. Tax returns. Whatever.
March 5, 2008 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, today the Obama campaign will announce they are flush with cash, $50-60 million from Feb. There are one million plus contributors who haven't tapped out. I'm one of them and will give another $50 today. The opposition research and media effort will be in full gear, and there's plenty of skeletons still in the Clinton closet. I guess if that's what the name of the game is in politics, then as Hillary says, "Let the fun begin!"
When the Clintons begin colorizing people's skin on TV ads, then I guess all bets are off. When Clinton can present herself as an experienced national security expert because she slept in the same bed as Bill, then there is certainly a media vacuum ready to be filled. I would have hoped for a debate about issues, but campaigns are revelatory about character and integrity as well. And the Clintons seem to have none.
March 5, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Brazile is about a week too late with that pronouncement. The party should have intervened last week with a smackdown of Clinton's dirty tactics. Clinton is only hurting Democrats long-term even if she helps herself short-term.
March 5, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I realized something this morning. If this is how HRC is going to fight this campaign, with the smears and the subtle racial crap ... I just can't and won't vote for her in the general.
I don't want Obama to go negative. The reason I like him is that he is inspiring. he says noble things that I want to believe are possible and that I'd fight for.
We've had a decade of this miserable sort of slimy, evil, ends-justify-the-means politics. If the Democratic nominee can only win with more of the same, what's the point? IT WON'T MATTER WHO WINS.
So I want Obama to play his own game. Talk about what he believes in, stick to the issues that we care about. If they weasel the nomination from him with non-substantive smearing crap, but he sticks to what I care about and fights the good fight, I will gladly write him in in November and feel good for having done at least that.
March 5, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
A small note to the writer---the word "Staunch" means resolute or steadfast---it is an adjective.
The word "Stanch" is a verb meaning to stop, check, or delay---frequently used in referring to stopping the flow of blood.
The two terms are not interchangeable.
Sorry to be picky, but it does make a difference.
March 5, 2008 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the fight has not been out of bounds for the most part. Clinton's comments that she and McCain were exp[erienced enough for the White House, but that Obama gave a speech in 2002 crosses a certain line for me.
March 5, 2008 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, indeed, John Edwards sure is looking fresh this morning.
Let's see, what did I do with that definition of DARK HORSE?
March 5, 2008 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Publicus you're exactly right.
The clinton spin machine is firing on all cylinders. Who else could say with a straight face that the contest is reset now and I kid you not, "Pennsylvania is the new Iowa". It would be like the Miami Dolphins saying that because they won the last game of the season, they should now be in the playoffs, because nothing else counts. The bs about winning big states is also a fabrication. The real sad thing is that the Clinton's picked these states as firewalls because they knew that the race baiting and nuanced religious "not that I know of" crap would work. MSNBC exit polls show greater than 20% of voters in Ohio said race matters and 75% of them went for Hillary. What else can be said?
Finally, when it all boils down, she may only take back 4 or 5 delegates out of almost 160 he had going into Tuesday and he'll net those back by next Tuesday. He needs to take back the narrative and hold the media accountable when they continue this spin. There are only 3 parties that benefit with a continued Clinton candidacy: Her overpaid consultants, Clinton's ego and the media. Do you not think the media has a financial interest in continuing to take almost 100m a month in cash from political advertising. This thing was over after Wisconsin.
March 5, 2008 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the strategy is two-pronged here - the Clintons will inform the DNC and superdelegates in no uncertain terms that they will play a game of high-stakes chicken. Either they hand the nomination to Hillary, or they scratch and claw all the way through the convention, ensuring a McCain win in November, laying the groundwork for their "I told you so" campaign for the 2012 nomination.
March 5, 2008 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with Brazile's assessment.
If Clinton wishes to continue her campaign by destroying Obama, then enough is enough. But if she wants to continue by highlighting policy and substance differences, then that's fair.
If she can't win on policy, then it's time for her to step aside.
March 5, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Since the Clinton rationale seems to be the Republicans will hit on these topics, so we might as well use them, Obama may have to reply in kind with:
Rezko = not even close to the Hsu scandal
8 years ago the Clintons were broke, now they are worth over 35 Million. Who gave them the money?
Tax returns. What’s she hiding?
Why are you not releasing the First Ladies papers since you are taking credit for White House experience?
After this round of primaries and the negative press on Obama is "working the refs" still going to work or is it just whining?
Mark Rich? Still never adequately explained.
Her brother Hugh Rodham's Presidential pardon peddling?
Clinton missing Senate hearings on Afghanistan?
Reminding people of the Clinton administration failures as well as it's successes.
Obama has not run a single ad on any of these issues. If the Clinton campaign is going to run attack ads and say that this is a positive since it shows she's a fighter, Obama should fight back. If she pulls back, then so can he.
March 5, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Obama has not run a single ad on any of these issues. If the Clinton campaign is going to run attack ads and say that this is a positive since it shows she's a fighter, Obama should fight back. If she pulls back, then so can he."
Indeed, I wouldn't mind seeing a TV spot along these lines:
The ad would start with a collage of footage, clips, and newspaper headlines from the 1990s, perhaps including "Lincoln Bedroom for sale," Norman Hsu, the pardon of Mark Rich, "Whitewater" and "Travelgate," and "I did not have sex with that woman!"
Then, an offscreen narrator says: "After eight years of George Bush's lies and distortions, do we really want to go back to this? It's time to take America in a bold new direction, to elect a president with honesty and integrity, to restore a new spirit of unity and hope in solving the real problems facing America's families."
Then the ad ends with an inspiring excerpt from one of Senator Obama's recent speeches, making clear what a contrast his presidency would be to those of Clinton and Bush, and what McCain's and Hillary's would be.
March 5, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
As a supporter of Mr Obama, I would rather he loses than go negative. I don't care about the Clinton's tax returns or who Mr Clinton may or may not be sleeping with. Mr Obama promised a new way of doing politics and I for one hope he sticks to it. He must provide a break from the politics of them versus us politics of personal destruction and the philosophy of doing whatever you have to do to win. I know...I am naive but I am also tired of watching my country divided in a time when it most needs to be united. I am tired of politician preying on our fears. From our standing in the world to our crumbling infrastructure to the abuse of power (the President) and the impotence of power (Congress) something has to change. If Mr Obama's new way is not to be this cycle so be it( I still think the math is on his side) but I for one hopes he will maintain the high ground in this battle.
March 5, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. And if you received his email today, I think he agrees. He's invested too much into his idea of "new politics" to go negative now.
March 5, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Rove_participates_in_Clinton_Obama_interviews_0305.html
When Rove is supporting Clinton then you know they are afraid of Obama. Hell, even Rush was telling Republicans to switch sides and vote for Hillary yesterday. These people don't want to run against Obama.
So you have Republicans supporting Hillary and Hillary supporting McCain. Something seems odd here...
March 5, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I've spent all morning trying to convince myself that a McCain Presidency won't be the end of the world. Because there's no doubt that's where we are headed.
March 5, 2008 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
One thing is clear to me this morning: Obama cannot just argue about the delegate math and expect the press to follow suit. Hillary is on every freaking morning show this morning. Obama has to change the story in a hurry.
Like I stated before, it's time to start demanding those tax documents and White House records.
I think David Axelrod has already hinted -no flat out stated- that is where they are willing to go. The counter punch is coming.
Ugliness will abound.
March 5, 2008 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
March 5, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
The problem however is that we need to win more than just the presidency.
Hillary may very well be able to win the nomination, but does she have the coattails to influence the close races in swing states? Maybe, but I just don't see it.
I think the dream-ticket is the way to go for the best of both worlds.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/03/breaking-news-h.html
We just need to find a way to decide which candidate is on the top of the ticket and which is VP.
March 5, 2008 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
What could the Dean do to "step in"? Does he have that kind of power? I think not.
But here's an idea... if the DNC can somehow build a coalition of half the super delegates and have them make a public pledge that they will support the winner of the total elected delegate count, that would essentially void the super delegate influence as a whole. In other words, the "magic number" is no longer 2025, but 1626.
A move like that could effectively force Clinton's hand, without an explicit endorsement of Obama (though it would likely be perceived as such by Clinton supporters.)
March 5, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's most convincing argument to the superdelegates is simple:
"My campaign is a movement the Democratic Party can build a future on. It is a movement that will turn Virginia , Colorado, and Missouri bright blue, and someday even Idaho. It is an inclusive and empowering, and truly grassroots wave that will put money in the Democratic party coffers, feet on the street for our candidates, and those candidates in the White House, state house, and most households for 2008 and far beyond."
That's enough. Stick with relentless organizing and mobilization, and that will be compelling to many superdelegates. Or Obama can go negative and make them chose between evils.
March 5, 2008 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
While I agree with Donna Brazile's sentiments, I just hope it doesn't come to that. Something I think strong supporters on both sides forget is that the Obama side wants Bill Clinton as a surrogate in November and the Clinton side wants Obama's new voters (if they don't, they're beyond stupid). It's a little late in the game to go scorched-earth if you want a united Democratic Party in November.
I think Clinton crossed the line a few times in recent weeks with regard to Obama, particularly when complimenting John "A Hundred Years of War War WAR" McCain. She needs to step back from the precipice. I don't necessarily want her to bow out, but if she decides that winning at all costs in the primary is okay (especially with the math stacked so decidedly against her), then she really doesn't deserve Democrats' votes (and it will likely cost the Democrats the 2008 election).
March 5, 2008 10:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Try to get it through your head that on every substantive issue, from warmongering to corporate welfare to suppression of first amendment rights (banning artistic expression and anti-corporate speech and whistelblowing), Hillary has exactly the same positions as McCain. I defy you, absolutely defy you, to draw a difference between the two. No. Body. Can. You're fooling yourself.
We are perilously close to a sort of Italian corpo-fascism that we won't emerge from without utter national disaster, and either McCain or Clinton will lead us down the final approach to that landing.
March 5, 2008 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes Howard Dean should tell Barack Obama to stop sending out the dirty no good lies that he has been send out to the voters. So this way Hillary Clinton will not have to defend herself and have the Obama media say that she is the one who has gone negative when in fact it was Obama that was the first who went negative. But as any one but a Obama mite can see, that he is the one who went negative first. As for that hack Brazile, that about 2 months ago said that she supported Barack Obama anything she and the rest of her Bias freinds at CNN say should have the caption, "I'm Barack Obama and I support these messages".
March 5, 2008 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are you literate? Did you finish 4th grade?
March 5, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Howard Dean won't be able to step in Sep.-Nov. to stop the Republicans from attacking either Clinton or Obama so nobody should step in now. Let these two strong candidates battle it out through the convention and may the best fighter win.
3am phone calls, tax documents and kitchen sinks. Bring it on!
Full disclosure: I'm a Hillary supporter. Nobody's perfect so I'm going with change and experience.
March 5, 2008 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm curious as to what in Hillary Clinton, for you, represents change other than her being the first woman president? I ask this in all honesty, not as snark. She's very much a DNC, Washington insider, special interest politician who represents, to me, just more of the same. Her experience amounts to 6 years in the Senate - I discount her experience as First Lady because, other than the health care fiasco, she had meaningful role in the Clinton administration. In my mind, she doesn't inspire me as someone who will lead us where I want our country to go.
March 5, 2008 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ooops - I should have said "DLC", not "DNC".
March 5, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Easy commercial:
Show American soliders in body bags, with her speech on the Senate floor authorizing use of force in Iraq played overtop the images.
Done deal.
March 5, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Really good idea. It creates a very visceral image and really gets to the heart of his argument about her. Hopefully someone will get something like this up on YouTube right away - it doesn't even have to come from the campaign officially.
March 5, 2008 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think something like that would be very effective, but if it came from the campaign it could back fire: it could look like he's exploiting the troop's death. It'd have to be an independent group.
March 5, 2008 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
coleridge, you are obviously clueless about 1) the fact that Obama on substance is a centrist much like Hillary, just different (and, I agree, preferable) in style; and more importantly 2) who McCain really is- he's a hard-right conservative and a bigger warmonger than Cheney. (Don't be fooled by his temporary turncoat behavior during Bush's first term- you won't see that McCain ever again.) Also, two words- Supreme Court.
You'll be in for a very rude surprise if he wins. Trouble is, those of us who knew what was coming will have to live with him too. Any Democrat who talks about sitting it out in November is an irresponsible ass in my considered opinion. Grow up.
March 5, 2008 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am under no illusions at all about McCain. He's not a maverick, he's a right-wing toad.
So is Clinton.
Again, I'm asking you to outline specific differences she has with McCain on the march to fascism. Any differences in the area of their all-war, all the time stances, or their corporate stooge-dom, are what I'm looking for. And I'm honestly asking; I can't find any, but I'd like to. I'd sure as hell like to vote this fall and have it be meaningful, I just don't see, honestly, a meaningful difference between her and McCain on these vital issues.
As for the Supreme Court, I don't see her pulling for people that are much better than McCain would; they'll have all the right "liberal" positions on stuff like pro-choice that everyone squawks about, but otherwise they'll be the same pro-censorship, pro-corporate stooges. Even if she were inclined to do differently, she won't be able to; having her in the White House (assuming she could beat McCain, which I think is an absurd notion) will ensure that we lose both houses of Congress. Remember the 90s?
March 5, 2008 10:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
And I'm honestly asking; I can't find any, but I'd like to. I'd sure as hell like to vote this fall and have it be meaningful, I just don't see, honestly, a meaningful difference between her and McCain on these vital issues.
-----------------------------------------------
Here's one that's extremely significant to me. Hillary has a bill to outlaw mercenary fighters like blackwater from Iraq. Obama and McCain has said they will not ban them. Obama said he would seek to get them under US laws. Hard to make happen and in the meantime they'll be making tons of dollars. The idea of a private militia like blackwater is truly scary to me. This is a great first step that deprives them of significant funds and from causing significant damage in Iraq. One of the many reason I support Clinton.
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=293878
March 5, 2008 10:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just to offer one recent specific: on the campaign trail and in the debates, she has already said (couched in laughable statements about "helping people save their homes"--what people, real estate speculators?) that her administration will be all banking, corporate, and speculator bailouts, all the time, not only wasting trillions of dollars and keeping the prices of everything from oil to housing inflated far beyond what Americans can afford, but also forever tainting the rule of law by showing that the feds will tear up contracts between private parties at will.
This is pure corporate fascism. It is nothing else.
March 5, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Also, there is no reason to force these two onto the same ticket. They don't like each other, and I'm not even sure they respect each other anymore.
Kerry and Edwards didn't like each other either. We saw how well that worked out.
March 5, 2008 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary isn't winning in November without the motivated youth and black votes.
Obama isn't winning with disillusioned women.
They may hate each other, but so did Kennedy/Johnson. I'm not sure Clinton/Gore liked each other all that much.
Together they win overwhelmingly in November and bring in House seats and Senate seats.
Without a Congressional majority, NONE of their ideas see the light of day.
Obama/Clinton
"Kennedy/Johnson 2.0"
March 5, 2008 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama spokesperson David Axelrod:
Sounds like they're gearing up for a fight (I especially like his hinting that he "doesn't know why they'd want to go there" - insinuating that there's a lot that they know that they haven't used thus far). It will be very interesting to see what happens and whether Obama can continue to stay above the fray while still hitting her hard. It's really a tightrope walk for him.
March 5, 2008 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Obama pulls it out, he needs a running mate who neutralizes McCain on national security WITHOUT playing Republican-lite hawk a la Hillary. Jim Webb would be my first choice, Wesley Clark my second.
March 5, 2008 10:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let's go completely negative. For the next press conference..
Senator Clinton, the Clinton administration played fast and loose with pardons peddled by individuals whose number included your brothers. (Where did she stash those bad boys!) Your daughter is seriously involved with an investment banker who is the son of a felon who in jail for financial shenanigans. Have you discussed pardoning him if you become president?
I am a little cross this morning.
March 5, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just made another $25 donation to Obama. Much more satisfying than arguing with wacko Clinton supporters.
March 5, 2008 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
coleridge, if you can't find any it's because your'e not looking. Hillary is too hawkish for my taste, but she would have nothing like McCain's enthusiasm for starting new wars or for staying in Iraq for 10,000 years. As for domestic policy, you can start from health care and McCain's enthusiasm for making Bush's tax cuts for the rich permanent, and go from there. And if you really don't see the difference between plausible Hillary Supreme picks and the Alito types that McCain would nominate, (and the Senate Dems roll over for as usual), then frankly I don't know what to say to you.
If you can't deal with the actual choices before you rather than retreating to some imaginary land of doctrinal purity, you just don't "get" democracy. We need to keep working for a real progressive majority that can push the Democratic Party to where it should be, but we can't do that with Republicans holding the levers of power.
It's people like you who voted for Nader in 2000 and gave us the wonderful George W. Bush Presidency. Thanks a lot.
March 5, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry, but you're just wrong here.
She's already endorsed going into Iran. She just has. It's a fact. And like Bush and McCain, she'll support more wars as long as she can cynically count on enough people to not care--since it's only non-white civilians being slaughtered.
On health care, she supports a plan which is nothing but a corporate giveaway to the same corrupt insurance structure we already have. (BTW, the insurance and defense industries contribute more to Hillary than any other candidate.)
As for the Supreme Court, you again dismiss my specific concerns with "I don't know what to say to you". You could start with pointing out specifically why you think I'm wrong, and who she might be likely to nominate and get past a Senate that is guaranteed to go GOP if she wins.
As for building a real progressive majority, I completely agree. And history teaches us that the Clintons move us in the opposite direction. Have you forgotten their years in power, when Bill was hugely popular but no other democratic, and *certainly* no progressive, could get elected dogcatcher?
I'm not about purity. I know Obama is a centrist. I also know he'll be constructive in moving in the right direction, while Hillary (as history showed us in their first term), will undo the progress of the last few years and then some. It took us a decade to recover from their last outing, including her PR disaster of a health care fight (she's a "fighter", not a pragmatist). Can you give me any reason to think that history will not repeat itself?
March 5, 2008 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Who was responsible for travelgate?
March 5, 2008 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Look at the Ohio exit polls, race was a factor for white voters in how they voted. What kind of factor was none specific.
March 5, 2008 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
First race war came from the Clinton campaign in Iowa with the drug stuff and with the Cumo remarks.
March 5, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
No WAY I want an Obama-Clinton or Clinton-Obama ticket. No way in hell.
I'd rather vote for McCain than have Clinton anywhere near the Whitehouse ever again.
March 5, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
And it's plain stupid to equate Hillary's triangulation on the Iran resolution, annoying as it was, with McCain's positive enthusiasm for starting wars.
Again, your kind of "thinking" gave us George W. Bush. Thanks a lot. Me, I support Obama but will support our nominee in the general. Period.
March 5, 2008 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Again, you have no factual basis for this claim. McCain will throw a bone by nominating movement conservatives, yes, that's likely. And other than the choice issue, they will be substantively no different than a Clinton nominee. Any other thought is naive. Nearly all of the recent destructive decisions out of the SCOTUS (on everything from eminent domain to intentional weakening of the public schools) have been ratified by a coalition of Scalia and the Bush II appointees, plus the "centrists" including Clinton-appointed Breyer. Stevens, Kennedy, Ginsburg are the only ones reliably holding down the fort. Hillary is even more pro-corporate and pro-censorship than McCain (see her donation list, her support of every single corp welfare program that comes down the pike, and her support of a myriad of anti-1st amendment issues); why in the world would you think her SC nominations wouldn't reflect that, especially when she has to pander to get them through a GOP-controlled Senate? It's wishful thinking.
Oh, please. If you had a leg to stand on, you would stand on it like a human being, instead of continuing to evade with ad hominems. Can you not support your theory that she's less of a warmonger than McCain with any facts?
Facts: She and McCain's voting records are identical on everything that involves war, the declaring of such, resolutions on the intentions of such, and support for the defense industry. She has spoken in favor of expanding the war in the Middle East. You can't ignore that. You just can't.
March 5, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
And for the record, this:
Is repugnant. What gave us George W. was a Clinton establishment that ran and governed as GOP-lite (even worse, on some issues) and couldn't win once the GOP were all voting for one guy rather than being split between their nom and Perot. Look at the numbers. You can bitch all you want about Nader (whom I didn't vote for, btw, so you can shove that line where the sun doesn't shine), but he was only a factor in the first place because of well over a decade of freezing out people that wanted a better country than the GOP will give us. So go ahead and keep trying to elect people that govern almost indistinguishably from the GOP once every eight or twelve years, and so disillusion all of us that want real progress instead of just to win the presidency in a pyrrhic victory.
Go ahead. Really. It's brilliant. I can't believe that Clinton people think they have anything resembling a leg to stand on with the Nader meme. It's just demented.
March 5, 2008 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have been patiently been sitting back watching you nutbags posting about destroying your guy Obama with scorched earth plans. Rezko has him and DA scared shitless, thats why you hear cries of HRC should quit and her not quiting. So with that I will have another beer patiently wait, have a chuckle, give more loot to HRC and watch you all cry and whine more.
Clinton/Obama 08. Edward AG.
March 5, 2008 11:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is good. They can't ignore what Hillary and her campaign are doing, but to adopt her methods exactly is no good since that would mean compromising what most of use find appealing about Barack. So this means Obama has the opportunity to hone his skills sparring with Clinton in preparation for the title bout with McSame. And whether we, as Obama supporters, like what Hillary is doing or think it's fair isn't really the issue; if we liked her tactics we'd have been Hillary supporters from the start. He has to find a way to neutralize her rhetoric.
March 5, 2008 11:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Billary McBush
Republican lite.
Just as foul as the original Republican brand, but with fewer calories and more carcinogens.
Vote Billary McBush, for a dynasty you can trust!
March 5, 2008 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
The more I think about it, the more all the ridiculous "re-set" talk coming from my TV makes sense. We've got seven weeks until Pa. Obama should look at this as a period to prove to all Dems that he can take on McCain. The problem with his run of wins is that the fundamental dynamic between Hillary and Obama didn't change. She didn't weaken so much as his campaign better planned for the month of February and he hit a number of states favorable to him. She did the same for March 4. Now he needs to retool and find a way to win Pa. The math matters, but not as much as the arithmetic in November. He needs to kick her ass someplace unexpected to show the party he's not just the guy who got more delegates, but that he's the only person to represent the party in the general.
March 5, 2008 11:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
why does the media keep talking about Clinton's "big wins" in ohio and texas? she had a big win in ohio, but texas was practically tied.
i agree with what other's have said, that if Obama was behind by this many states, and this many delegates, Clinton would be the presumed nominee by now. the media may be hard on her in some ways, but they are obviously invested in her staying in, and still see her as "inevitable."
March 5, 2008 11:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
i agree that Clinton only had a big win in Ohio, not in Texas.
But I think you're falling victim to the persecution complex we all have a tendency to fall for with your second argument. If the situation was reversed, Clinton would still not be the "expected" nominee because the other candidate has won a lot of big states and there are still a lot of states yet to vote. Maybe Florida and Michigan should vote again too.
Taking my argument farther, if the "establishment" candidate won all the votes (in number), states and pledged delegates (in number) that Obama has won and the "insurgent" candidate had won all the votes (in number), states and delegates (in number) that Clinton won, the "establishment" candidate would not be the "presumed" nominee even with their superdelegate advantage. Nor would either side have a strong argument for the other one dropping out. If the "insurgent" was still raising money the way Obama has, we'd be in an almost identical predicament.
As it stands now, Obama is being treated as the most likely nominee as he should be, because even solid but not spectacular wins for Clinton in the larger states yet to vote won't cause her to catch Obama in the pledged delegate race. But she remains a possible nominee for a host of reasons.
March 5, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, if the roles were reversed, the story would be how Clinton hadn't been able to capitalize on her momentum and close the deal.
March 5, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama doesn't need to talk explicitly about scandals.
All he needs to to is undermine Clinton's claim to experience. He can do this fairly easily.
If you are the most experienced, why won't you share your experience by releasing your tax returns and the White House papers? This would be very effective, would get a lot of press attention, and would be directed at Clinton's own arguments.
March 5, 2008 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
The idea that Hillary Clinton's campaign has gone "nuclear" on Barack Obama is preposterous. Despite what some of the most opinionated members of the blogosphere and Air America types claim, nothing Clinton's said, including her line about McCain having more experience to trot out on foreign policy, amounts to a implicit endoresment of McCain over Obama.
I've convinced myself that this long primary campaign is good for Democrats and good for progressive causes, but I will admit to the possibility of wishful thinking because I support the candidate who is trailing badly in the pledged delegate count. If Obama and Clinton don't train as much fire at McCain as they do at each other over the next few weeks, that will be evidence I'm wrong.
But all you Clinton haters out there, don't be so quick to dismiss the millions of liberal Democrats like me who are still strongly in her corner. We exist, we're smart, we're idealistic and we're just as sick of politics as usual and the Iraq War as you are. We simply believe Clinton has demonstrated the judgment, intelligence and ability to inspire and sign positive legislation and run the executive branch well. Further, we reject the notion that her Iraq vote disqualifies her or that there is something slimy or ethically challenged about her.
March 5, 2008 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good post, policywanker.
My bad feeling is the divisions between supporters will increase as this goes on...
Hopefully, we can all reconcile at Denver.
March 5, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
March 5, 2008 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're not applying logic here.
You support Obama over Clinton right now.
But you're defending the Clinton style of pyrrhic politics that has been nothing but a GOP-enabler. If you blame W on Nader, then you are, in that context (it's an amazing thing), a Clinton person. You are tacitly endorsing that style of politics, notwithstanding your current Obama support. I'll try to lay off the invective here and just lay this out as I see it, respectfully. When the Clinton style of politics "won" the White House, it did it only by cannibalizing just enough of the moderate wing of the repubs to sneak in while they were divided between their nominees and Perot. You agree that this is true, correct? And in the process, the foundation of the Democratic party, and more important, the progressive cause in general was basically destroyed. In a very real and pragmatic sense-- we were left with basically no voice in the legislature or any state offices.
Can you really dispute this? I just don't see it.
March 5, 2008 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Coleridge, I really appreciate your ability to lay off the invective. It is helpful.
Please keep in mind that there are plenty of self-described progressives who dispute your basic narrative that Clintonian triangulation on issues like gay rights, trade agreements, welfare reform, and Treasury Department policy was what destroyed the foundation of the Democratic party or were a setback for progressive causes in the 90's.
The Democratic party has at least as much of a problem keeping secular, pro-choice free-trade supporters in the same party as pro-life, blue-collar worker who distrusts immigrants and trade agreements as the Republican party has keeping its Evangelicals and Wall Streeters from each others throats. Yes, i realize most Democrats and Republicans don't fit into one of the stereotype boxes I labeled, but more importantly, passionate progressives like you seen so willfully and awfully blind to the difficulty of building a progressive coalition.
I feel the same frustration you do that people don't see the politics of Clinton and progressivism the way I do. When I read progressives write that they would do anything to keep Clinton out of the White House I want to hurl because so much baseless ant-Clinton propaganda has been so effective.
You don't need to accept my argument that what really caused the 90's from being successful for "progressives" was the pathetic political support Clinton received from the deeply compromised and out-of-touch Congressional delegation and interest groups of his own party. However, please do consider that there is a sort of asymetrical warfare we're all involved in with the right. We don't need to be like most of the 25% who back Bush down to their marrow in spite of hating his "support" for illegal immigrants, but we do need to realize what we're up against.
Progressive citizens and interests have the votes necessary to take and hold power in Washington, and now they clearly have the money as well. But progressives still don't seem to understand the need to cooperate and compromise issue by issue. Despite all his rhetoric, Obama doesn't demonstrate better understanding of this than Clinton. She is NOT Republican-lite or corporate crony-lite in any way that Obama is not. And there are no ways she is Republican-lite that are dangerous to our republic.
March 5, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Hillary should drop out of the race so that Obama doesn't have to get ugly on her in order to beat her?
God, I hate Donna Brazile.
March 5, 2008 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think we are all worried that they will be so badly bruised, neither of them will be able to win the GE.
March 5, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
am quite fuzzyheaded this am, but it sounds to me like establishment Dems are running true to character and afraid they may have to act without clear, overwhelming mandates (that Richardson, et al were anticipating Monday afternoon) and now, horrors! may have to make a decision on their own
March 5, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON !
I am a Barack Obama supporter, a lifelong Democrat, and was until recently a big fan of President Bill Clinton. Given how Mrs. Clinton conducted her vicious campaign against the honorable gentleman, Mr. Obama, I cannot in good faith support her if she should become the Democratic candidate.
And it's not just me. Many of my friends and family, who presently support Obama, have agreed this morning that we will support the honorable gentleman, John McCain, should this eventuality occur. None of us have ever voted for a Republican for President, but we feel that we can "trust" Mr. McCain over Mrs. Clinton.
March 5, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you're for real, it's a shame you've been so thoroughly duped. I know some people who are convinced Bill and Hillary crossed an important line on race and practiced the "politics of personal destruction" earlier in this campaign, I even know some who were in South Carolina. I could write all day about the single most questionable Clinton comment, the one Bill made about J.J. having won SC. But there really is no beef here. In fact, at almost every twisty turn, Hillary exhibited principled leadership on the race-baiting and "pattern of comments". She rejected and she denounced.
If candidates had to pay for everything their supporters said about their opponents, that would not be helpful. And I promise you we'll all be hoping that the media is going to stop reporting all these illogical ad hominem political attacks. For now, suffice it say that we shouldn't lose sight of what's actually a candidate's responsibility to comment on, otherwise the mainstream media is going to continue to ignore all the potentially influential misfits with disgusting views who back McCain but whom McCain will not denounce (and still give him credit when he throws them an occasional "I don't agree with that person" bone.)
March 5, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don’t believe Dean has any real pull on the Clinton campaign. In 2004 his winning the nomination was her greatest threat to a run in 2008, therefore we saw the Clinton sponsored candidate ,Wesley Clarke. A public opposition by Dean to Clinton’s continuation could -through an internal power struggle lead by the Clinton wing- threaten his chairmanship of the DNC.
March 5, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg Sargent:
Apparently you don't read the news. That bloc of super delegates the were rumored to be ready to move en masse to Obama were just that: a rumor. Obama has said it's not true. In fact, it now appears the rumor may have been political mischief by the Clinton campaign.
Hillary's strategy going forward is clearly slash and burn and take no prisoners. If she can't have it, neither can he. Her goal is to so destroy Obama that the super delegates will be forced to conclude that he can't possibly win in the general. Never mind the fact that she can't win either.
Yesterday, an Obama staffer stated clearly the Clinton strategy to beat Obama when he said, "We need to mess him up." That's the sort of attitude the Clintons have long been known for. It's filthy and repugnant, but that's the Clintons. Bill may not be out there on the campaign trail like he was, but his dirty fingerprints are all over this.
March 5, 2008 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, it's bad that Hillary raised a point that McCain never would have thought: compare McCain's experience to Obama's. A experienced senator would never think to attack a first-term senator for lack of experience.
I'm not seeing the kind of nasty attacks either side is claiming. And frankly, it's silly to ask everyone to cool the harsh, emotional rhetoric. There's something to be said for getting Obama's weaknesses out there for discussion and criticism, just as Hillary's have been, because I'd rather voters have their serious doubts now rather than in the fall. And I say that because I think Obama can repudiate and overcome those criticisms. If, for example, he's so inexperienced, then why aren't there more substantial differences between the candidates and their voting records?
March 5, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama has been attacking Hillary for months claiming she couldn't be trusted and had no integrity. He did it in a very non specific way, just sort of stating these things, not making specific charges. He didn't have to, it was just playing into and reinforcing the narrative the right wing and the press have tried to poush forward for years. Now he is not just going to ride off others attacks of Hillary and exploit them to his advantage without having to look like the bad guy, but make those attacks himself. He will show himself for the petty, do anything to get power kind of politican he is. Maybe he try to start getting people kicked off ballots by questioning signatures like he did back in Illinois. Now we will see him have to do his won dirty work and the true Obama will be exposed.
And Donna Brazile should be expelled from the Democratic Party for her stupidity in stripping Michigan and Florida of their delegates, and in general her incompetence and ineptitude. She is a disgrace and she should just go away in shame.
March 5, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is moronic to blame Brazile for the mess the Florida Democratic party and Michigan Democratic party got themselves into. They knew what the consequences of their actions would be, and they ACTED ANYWAY. It's unfortunate for the voters in FL and MI, but the blame lies squarely with the state party leaders. Period.
March 5, 2008 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is very interesting, Ms Brazile's statement(s)
Earlier (few weeks ago), she said that the super delegates should follow what the voters say and vote for the candidate with the maximum number of delegates won in primaries and caucuses. She even threatened to quit the party (Oops, sorry she meant the party post) if super delegates don't vote for the candidate with maximum elected delegates.
Now, she suddenly says that Hillary Clinton won the states by attacking and casting seeds of doubt on Barack Obama; in effect she is saying that voters are not smart enough to know what is what!
She goes further to say that other party officials (I am sure most of them are super delegates) should "intervene" in the process.
Whatever happened to what the voters are saying? Or is it that as far as Ms Brazile is concerned, voters voting for Mr. Obama are smart and those voting for Ms. Clinton are either dumb or too carried away by negative attacks.
Note: Ich bin ein uncommitted non-resident alien
March 5, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
March 5, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have a different reason for the superdelegates to immediately weigh in, given the math re: delegates won for this reason:
Given that we're slipping into recession, if not there already, the superdelegates could tout that we should conserve precious resources and divert campaign contributions (more than 1 million a day) as seed money for a 'green' construction fund. By continuing the primary fight, and talking about re-doing Flordia at a cost of 10 million dollars, and Michigan, Democrats are mismanaging scarce resources. They could boost about their genuine concern for the plight of the working class rather than have candidates just make promises.
March 5, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Neither one will have enough earned delegates. So whats the plan Stan?
March 5, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Donna Brazile did not strip MI and FL of their delegates. You have no cause to trash someone that has worked her entire life to forward Democratic ideals in our country. Get a grip. You're just mad that Hillary has no clear path to victory.
The dems will be greatly weakened this November. If it wasn't real life, you'd think it was a Shakespearen tragedy. I hope Obama trashes Hillary, quite frankly. Let's go ahead and finish poisoning the well. What's another 4 years? (sarcasm)
March 5, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, guy, it's rough to lose, but don't throw the baby (with the bathwater, in case anyone needed that) out too soon.
I was disappointed yesterday too, but we're still ahead. Don't forget that.
I live in OH, and I haven't taken the button off my coat.
March 5, 2008 7:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
(You guys must all be retired.)
Anyway, Donna Brazile showed up too late for church - communion's over. We are where we are today because those who could have made a difference didn't. After they gave up their candidacies, Richardson and Edwards chose to be coy rather than do what was obviously necessary to build Party unity. The same with Feingold. And don't even get me started on John Lewis.
It is way too late to salvage this thing now. At this point, the Clintons are determined to dig in and wage their racist campaign of entitlement to the bitter end. Never mind the issues; never mind the current assault on civil liberties; never mind that our country is universally reviled; never mind that our constitution is on life support or that the nation is crying out for a new era of civility and constructive politics. If Hillary can get the nomination by hook or by crook, then by god she will.
This has been clear at least since "Super Tuesday", but those who could have done something went missing.
March 5, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I tend to agree. It's already getting late and getting later by the day.
I don't believe that the party will actually overturn an Obama victory in popular delegates. But the longer they keep the hope of such an event alive, the longer the pointless mudslinging will continue.
March 5, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree completely. The damage is done and won't be undone with either a Clinton candidacy or an Obama candidacy I had been waiting in the wings until Obama incorporated civil liberties into his portfolio and then I jumped in because I really like his message of unity. Clinton has still refused to stand up on this issue, and I'm sure there's not any motivation for her and Bill to weaken the unitary executive. So I still support Obama, but understanding it's all for naught. McCain will, if his frail old body can make it to January 20, be our next president. What a shame.
Fight on, Hillary. Long live the Whigs!
Jeb/Pierce '16
Yee-hah!
March 5, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe that primaries are good for candidates. Either Clinton or Obama will benefit from extending the primary season.
Now for every Obama supporter that says he/she will support McCain over Hillary, there is a Clinton supporter that says she/he will support McCain over Obama. At least they say so to me.
Don't assume that Obama will win every state Kerry won in '04. With demographics not too dissimilar to Ohio's, Michigan, Pennsylvania and New Jersey could go Republican. And there is certainly no reason to assume Obama will win Virginia just because he won a primary. Governors Kaine and Warner tack a "tad" to the right of Obama. Sure, Obama will win New York and California, but if he loses some in the Northeast and/or the rustbelt, what traditionally "red" states will he pick up? Kansas? Idaho? Georgia? South Carolina? I'm skeptical.
Let's just enjoy the rest of the primary season. It is fun, if nothing else!
March 5, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, and I am sure you'll enjoy the view from the McMain inauguration!
March 5, 2008 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love watching these arrogant pols scramble to save their corrupt party and, by extension, their own sorry asses. Too bad the Republicans don't have super delegates. I'd like to watch them implode, too.
March 5, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Remember! Super delegates only count when they vote for Senator Obama. Only then is the will of the voter validated. When Hillary complains about caucauses she is coniving. When Barack complains about super delegates, he is righteous.
March 5, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Hillary wins the majority of the popular delegates I would expect the superdelegates to ratify that decision also.
March 5, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
The issue or shall I say buzz word is TRANSPARENCY. And another thing the meme about Obama not being able to win the big blue states, when they will go to ANY Dem that runs is the silliest reasoning from the Clinton camp I've ever seen. It must be bashed across their heads like her Iraq War vote...that took time to sink in.
March 5, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another reader above? She DID endorse McCain. She said that both she and McCain had a lifetime of experience--the sound clips are everywhere. And in a despicable note, she said that Obama had just one speech. That's loathsome Karl Rove-ism.
This is the first time in my life that I can imagine sitting out an election if she's the Democratic nominee. Her tactics are sickening, and I used to like her and Bill Clinton immensely. The campaign has brought out the worst in someone who claims to be a lifelong Democrat. That is quite simply a lie. She was President of her alma mater's Republican group and she supported Goldwater.
March 5, 2008 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is the party that weak? If so, why would it make any dif when the nominee is chosen, it sounds like the pubs have it. You guys are so paranoid, I guess youd don't beleive that core Obama supporters will stick around for the long run. Or are easily picked off. And didn't Obama go negative with the "Harry and Louise" health care flyer already?
March 5, 2008 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pardon me for noticing, but wasn't Donna Brazile the campaign manager for the LOSING and very badly run Al Gore campaign?
March 5, 2008 8:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now that the dust has settled a bit, I think more people are realizing what went on in the wake of the New Hampshire when the Obama campaign was shaken. Donna Brazile, Doug Wilder, Jesse Jackson Jr. and others launched a coordinated assault on the Clintons, trying to intimidate them with race card accusations. Brazile herself lied by claiming that Bill Clinton called Obama a kid. All of their efforts mobilized the African American voters in South Carolina. I can't see reaching any conclusion other than that it was Brazile and Co. who played the race card.
Brazile has also been trying to preemptively limit Hillary's options by intimidating superdelegates. She and Wilder started playing that game weeks ago, issuing all kinds of threats about what would happen if superdelegates attempted to excercise their options.
Seems Ms. Brazile is only a stickler for the rules when it benefits Obama. As far as I'm concerned, she has embarassed and discredited herself.
March 5, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
that's if she shared the bed and wasn't in exile in the lincoln bedroom...
March 5, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like the Sen. Clinton isn't dropping out and is tenacious in her campaign. Seems to me that fighting to win and not giving up are good qualities to have in a candidate. As much as I like Gore, not fighting tooth and nail for the presidency in 2000 resulted in tragedy for the country. McCain isn't going to roll over and withdraw nor is he going to pull any punches. If Obama becomes the dem nominee, it would be good for him to have his ability "to fight against hardball tactics while preserving his positive image/message" perfected by the time he has to go against the dirt-throwing GOP machine. He hasn't done great in that regard till now, so he could use some practice.
March 6, 2008 4:43 AM | Reply | Permalink