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Brazile: Howard Dean And Other Party Leaders Should Be Prepared To Step In

Despite Hillary's big wins in Ohio and Texas last night, some super-delegates are already suggesting that a continued contest risks damaging the party and are calling on Howard Dean and other party leaders to be ready to intervene should the race get dirtier:

"Despite Obama's impressive victories in February, Clinton's comeback is based on sowing political seeds of doubt," said Donna Brazile, a Democratic strategist and one of nearly 800 party leaders known as superdelegates for their ability to determine the nomination. "In order to clinch the nomination, he must anticipate the worst attacks ever."...

Some superdelegates are bracing themselves to intervene on Obama's behalf if necessary.

"If these attacks are contrasts based on policy differences, there is no need to stop the race or halt the debate," Brazile said. "But, if this is more division, more diversion from the issues and more of the same politics of personal destruction, chairman Dean and other should be on standby."

Consider that a harbinger of what we're likely to hear from other super-delegates if the race gets uglier without significantly altering the underlying pledged-delegate imbalance between the two candidates.

One outstanding question today: Will that bloc of super-dels who were reported to be ready to bolt to Obama last night materialize, or did Hillary's wins staunch that bleeding for now?

Late Update: The Hotline has an Obama spokesperson flatly denying that any kind of bloc of super-dels was set to get behind Obama.


Comments (170)

Also in that article:

"A senior Obama adviser, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Obama's team will respond to Tuesday's results by going negative on Clinton — raising questions about her tax records and the source of donations to the Clinton presidential library, among skeletons in the Clintons' past."

That would certainly be something new for the Obama campaign. Not taking the high road anymore, or can he do this as a question of integrity and not as a smear campaign?

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Good. If Hillary's going to go nuclear on a fellow Democrat, then he's got to respond. Let's face it, entire careers have been built on untangling the Clintons' many ethical messes - and the media sure as hell isn't pressing her on any of her most recent transgressions - so it's not as if Obama has to stretch to call her integrity into question.

Is it really going negative to call a spade a spade? If the Clintons are liars, and possibly criminals, why is it out of bounds to say so?

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This is such a typical sentiment of an Obama supporter. When Obama says he can go up against McCain because he has better judgment than Hillary, he's making a solid case. When Hillary says she can go up against McCain because she has a lifetime of experience, she's endorsing McCain, it's a horrible smear.

When Clinton sends out a heatlh insurance mailer asserting Obama will leave out people in his health plan because he doesn't require a mandate, it's a horrible, viscious tactic. When Obama sends out a "Harry & Louise" redux mailer, he's right on, a great fighting candidate.

So go on, keep "calling a spade a spade". We learned last night that a lot of Democrats still really like Hillary, and that the tides have turned and late deciders are breaking big time for Clinton. You can whine all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that Obama plays the same politics as Clinton and the nation is finally starting to recognize that.

It is not that she compared her experience to Obamas, using her standard lie that she has more. It wasw that she compared Obama's experience unfavorably with McCains that is the problem. How do you mjanage to blind yourself to this distinction?

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Your point is, I believe, that Clinton handed McCain a talking point should Obama win the nomination. Well, I don't see how this is any different than when Obama goes on record calling Clinton divisive, old politics, more of the same. He has handed McCain several talking points should Clinton become the nominee. Hell, the Republicans have been calling Hillary divisive for years--it's a character attack, experience is not a character attack, it's a qualifications attack. So what he's done is worse!

I'll ask you a question:

"How do you mjanage to blind yourself to this distinction?"

This argument is nonsense. McCain doesn't need anyone to hand him talking points, there's a whole smear industry that can meet his needs in that area. The issue, it seems to me, is that going negative will (has) split the party and hand McCain a victory. At this point, I think Obama supporters are going to have a tough time with Hillary, and many Clinton supporters have made it plain they'd prefer McCain to Obama. We've already lost and the damage may be permanent. Both candidates are now damaged goods (or soon will be) and if I were Howard Dean I'd beon the horn to Al Gore.

This just makes me sick. Democrats should have taken the White House easily this year. It ain't gonna happen, folks. Not unless (and maybe even if) the party can find a unity candidate and take the convention in an entirely different direction.

It's a sad fact that Americans (who say they hate negative ads) listen to them! It may be "negative" to tell the truth about your opponent, but we need to know what's what before we vote. I have always suspected the Clintons have several secrets yet they don't want exposed....but even if something horrible were to come out, and HRC was the nominee, I'd have to hold my nose and vote for her. Bad as she is, the alternative is unthinkable. McCain is ignorant of everything except war...that's all he cares about, all he understands. WE CAN'T AFFORD ANY MORE WAR.

What makes you think we won't get more war from Clinton? Her husband engineered the phony Kosovo war, which was premised on saving the "peace-loving" Kosovars from the "evil" Serbs. It's the same template Bush used to trump up the Iraq war where we needed to save the "peace-loving" Shia and Kurds from the "evil" Sunnis. The first war ended up with a Kosovar campaign against Serbs just like the Iraq war has ended up with a Shia campaign against the Sunni and now a Turk campaign against the Kurds. She's just as much a messianic war monger as Bush, but she will sell it using a Democrat-oriented framework.

Pray tell, how is it a smear to ask a candidate to release their tax return?

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Will that bloc of super-dels who were reported to be ready to bolt to Obama last night materialize, or did Hillary's wins staunch that bleeding for now?

A third option is that that rumored bloc never existed. Indeed, the Obama campaign is denying it.

"Consider that a harbinger of what we're likely to hear from other super-delegates if the race gets uglier without significantly altering the underlying pledged-delegate imbalance between the two candidates."

While the race may well get uglier, it's basically mathematically impossible for her to "significantly alter the underlying pledged-delegate imbalance between the two candidates."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/4/162042/3056/80/468751

From this DK diary: "I ran the numbers for winning all 82 races (70 CDs + Guam + the 11 statewide splits) by a whopping 24.9%. Her gain? Only 110 delegates. Obama still leads by 50."

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I am afraid that what Donna Brazile said sounds like a call to race rioting and voter disenfranchisement. This is Republican behavior and not acceptable in the context of the history of the Democratic party's commitment to making votes count.

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Whoa. Not at all what she's saying and injecting race into this misses the point she's raising. This is about the tone and tenor of the campaign over the next 7 weeks and the impact it has on the Democratic Party and it's (now dwindling) chances in the fall. Not about race or voter disenfranchisement and to suggest otherwise is to distract folks from the real issue.

Donna Brazille fired the first shot in Obama's race war when she declared that "fairy tale" was a racist slur.
The woman is a racist liar.
Why do Obama supporters insist that the primary elections be cut short?
Are they afraid that Obama can't win on his own?
All Obama has to do is gain a majority of delegates.
Why is that so hard for his fans to grasp?
Why don't they devote their energies to thagt end rather than wasting our time trying to force a premature end to the contest?
That is so Republican, so Florida 2000.

JTHB, believe it or not, I sort of agree with you. I am a staunch Obama supporter; however, at this point, I think everybody needs to step away and let the dust settle, see where things are, and let Obama's campaign retool to see what they need to do to respond better. I think that forcing Hillary out now would be extremely detrimental to our chances of beating McCain and it will disenfranchise a WHOLE lot of Clinton supporters who will feel like they were cheated out of the chance to see her win the nomination (although, given the math, it's hard to see how she can do that without the supers stepping in anyway). I think Brazile's statements are premature, and I think we have to wait until all of the delegate numbers are in, and probably until after Pennsylvania, before anybody intervenes to shut this thing down.

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Thank you for your reasonable look at what is happening in this contest.

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Although neither can now get to the magic number of pledged delegates, I think it's really beside the point right now. Obama did not handle things well in the past couple of weeks and that's simply not a good thing.

We have two people who have enough money and volunteers to go into every state. I think we need to do that--including a do-over in Michigan and Florida. It's fair; it's sensible; and it gives all of us time to evaluate and perhaps re-evaluate.

Donna, IMHO, is out of line. I think Obama bumbled the NAFTA/Canada response and it hurt. I have seen little improvement in the Obama outreach to the Latino voters--Texas looks like California, doesn't it? I also don't see any steady holding of voter groups by Obama--like the over 60 or females. All of these things need improvement and I want to see that improvement in the results for the upcoming primary/caucus.

The Rezko stuff is not going away. Obama will need to address this repeatedly with great patience and understanding. There's nothing wrong with doing that--it simply isn't the media's fault or Hillary's fault.

If the opposing campaign brings up "dirty" stuff, then the Obama campaign needs to handle it effectively. Whining is NOT effective.

Well said, dear Cube. I agree entirely.

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I was shocked and awed by Barack's response to questions about something that, relative to HRC's misdealings, are relatively minor. She can't even release her tax returns?

But to get annoyed by 8 questions?

I say this as a staunch Obama supporter.

@Viking: I was thinking the same thing on my drive home. If she gets the nom because of superdelegates, I will vote for other races, just not hers.

Members of my family have died (WWII) to ensure that I can vote; I won't ever give that up.

WHY THE CLINTONS WON'T BE RELEASING THEIR TAX RETURNS?...

http://thememlingindex.com/hillary_clinton_net_worth-wealth.html

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"But, if this is more division, more diversion from the issues and more of the same politics of personal destruction, chairman Dean and other should be on standby."

Uh, news flash to Donna and Democrats everywhere, it's not a matter of if, but when. Clinton has already shown she isn't afraid to use race, fear, and perpetuate flat out bullshit to win the nomination.

Clinton isn't a Satanic lesbian, as far as I know, but there are real contrasts between her and Obama and voters need to know about those.

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Someone in a earlier post stated that, despite her wins last night, Hillary is fighting a losing battle. I think it would be more accurate to say that Hillary's winning a losing battle, and will go on winning it all he way to Denver. I think we can expect to see Obama's poll numbers continue their downward spiral in the days and weeks ahead. Sure, he'll maintain an anemic delegate lead, but as time goes on (and time is no longer his friend) he'll seem increasingly vulnerable as a candidate. Meanwhile, Hillary will intensify her negative assaults, so that by the time April rolls around no one will be able to distinguish the man from the mud. This, to put it mildly, will sow doubts in the minds of the Democratic sachem. This past week revealed an astonishing ineptness in the Obama P.R. campaign. It was almost as if he had gone on vacation and left the field entirely to Hillary. She dominated on every front, and his attempts to parry her thrusts were not only ineffectual, but were downright lame. It's silly to try to dismiss Hillary's domination as nothing more than dirty politics. Dirty politics is politics, always was, always will be. If you think Obama is going to win the nomination or general election by "standing above the fray" -- well then, get prepared for humiliation. It's going to be extremely difficult for Obama to recover anything like the "shine" he enjoyed going into Ohio and Texas, and if he doesn't start giving like for like, he will not get the nomination. Ah, but then Mr. Nice Guy will be transformed into Mr. Politics-as-Usual. In other words, by the time Denver rolls around Hillary will have won her losing battle. Then the question will be how this increasingly hateful contest can possibly be redeemed.

Dark horse, anyone?

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"I think we can expect to see Obama's poll numbers continue their downward spiral in the days and weeks ahead. Sure, he'll maintain an anemic delegate lead, but as time goes on (and time is no longer his friend) he'll seem increasingly vulnerable as a candidate."

What poll number slide? Wasn't he behind significantly in both Ohio and Texas a few weeks ago?

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I guess you haven't been following the polls. His surge in momentum stalled out about eight days ago, hovered in mid-air for awhile, then began a rather steep decent about three days ago. That's why he lost last night. The shift has been quite dramatic. Three days ago he was 8 points ahead of Hillary in the Gallup tracking poll. Yesterday he was dead even. Today he'll be lucky if he's less than 3 points behind. That poll number slide.

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The Obama camp has already said the Brokaw report was wrong.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/03/its_wrong.html

That was posted last night

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elonepb- that's in fact the one way that he can actually square the circle. Painting Clinton as a tool of the old, corrupt politics as usual actually reinforces his positive message of change rather than undercutting it. I'm encouraged to hear this.

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He's definitely got a frame to fit this whole thing into, I just wonder if he will go there. I think it can be done and done effectively. Though I don't think the Clinton folks are going to like it.

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Wow, talk about the most disingenuous thing I've ever heard -- Hillary might actually come back and win this thing, so we need to END THE PRIMARY NOW!!! The more Obama supporters whine that Hillary needs to drop out because the "math" is against her, the more people start to realize that the math is bogus. Obama's "superdelegates are undemocratic" argument is pretty much already out the window.

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Chief Strategist Mark Penn: “After March 4th, over 3000 delegates will be committed, and we project that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama will be virtually tied with 611 delegates still to be chosen in Pennsylvania and other remaining states. Again and again, this race has shown that it is voters and delegates who matter, not the pundits or perceived ‘momentum.’” [Mark Penn memo, 2/13/08]
Clinton aide Guy Cecil: "We think that at the end of the day on March 4 we will be within 25 delegates.” [Politico, 2/13/08]
Howard Wolfson: “I Think We Will Be Ahead In The Delegate Race After Texas And Ohio.” [Clinton campaign conference call, 2/11/08]

So how did the Clintons do last night? According to the standard laid down by the Clintons, not very well at all.

The math doesn't lie. People do. Check the numbers and you'll see that nothing changed last night, except Clinton finally won. She's now 3-12 over the last 15. 14-27. She's still 150+ pledged delegates in the hole.

It's the math. Deal with it.


Excellent point. And in the same 2/13/08 Mark Penn quote:
Again and again, this race has shown that it is voters and delegates who matter, not the pundits or perceived "momentum."
So as Penn also opened the piece with:

This election will come down to delegates.

Pretty simple. And, for once, Mark Penn was right.

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"race rioting" What planet do you live on?

If we make votes count then the pledged delegates are what counts. Here's ABC's Mark Halperin's take on last night's results.

Here is a good analysis of the remaining primary states and the delegate math:

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1719614,00.html

Clinton Wins Big, But Math is Troubling
Wednesday, Mar. 05, 2008 By MARK HALPERIN
Hillary Clinton, Ohio

Hillary Clinton's popular vote victories in Texas and Ohio fundamentally change the race for the Democratic presidential nomination in at least one important way: she's still in the race for
the nomination. Clinton's long, arduous campaign might have ended abruptly if Obama delivered a knock-out blow in either state.


Hillary Clinton may have won Texas and Ohio last night, but to hear the Obama campaign tell it, .

Instead, Clinton will fight on for at least the next seven weeks,
until Pennsylvania votes on April 22. To get an idea of how long a
period that is in political years, the Iowa caucuses — remember them?
— were only eight weeks ago.

.....

But the March 4 results have not changed Obama's strongest talking
point (and reality point) for why Clinton should exit the Democratic
race: Math. It appears numerically impossible for her to overtake his
lead among elected delegates.

Neither Obama nor Clinton can win the 2,025 delegates required for
nomination without some combination of elected delegates (those chosen
in primaries and caucuses) and superdelegates (party and elected
officials who are automatic delegates to the Democrats' Denver
convention this summer). About 800 of the approximately 4,000
delegates are superdelegates and several hundred of them are still
uncommitted to either candidate.

Given the remaining contests — many with electorates favorable to
Obama — Obama's existing hundred-plus delegate lead, and the rules by
which Democrats apportion delegates, it is almost a political and
mathematical certainty that Obama will have an elected delegate lead
at the end of the process, barring dramatic, unforeseen circumstances.

Some of the upcoming states to vote — including Wyoming on Saturday
and Mississippi on March 11 — are likely to swing strongly for Obama,
and certainly show no signs of being Clinton blowouts. The same goes
for North Carolina on May 6, and Oregon on May 20.

Other contests might be more favorable for Clinton (Pennsylvania,
Indiana, Guam, West Virginia, Montana, and South Dakota), but even
decisive wins in those states — say, in the 60-40 range—would still
leave her behind in both elected delegates and the overall count. That
remains true even if Clinton somehow succeeds in getting the disputed
delegates from Florida and Michigan seated at the convention.

Clinton's only hope of winning a majority of the delegates is to
overtake Obama's elected delegate lead by winning the bulk of the
remaining superdelegates.

This is the heart of Clinton's multi-dimensional challenge. Obama has
of late signed up more superdelegates than Clinton in part because
they are swayed by his lead in elected delegates. Yet unless there is
a significant change in the overall dynamic — a major Obama blunder or
scandal for example — he is likely to continue accruing superdelegates
regardless of Clinton's big March 4 wins. Also, the act of securing
the nomination with unelected convention votes could be considered by
many Obama supporters as highly undemocratic, embittering and dividing
the party on the eve of the general election.

So Clinton lives to run for another seven weeks. But if you believe in
the power of numbers, the candidate of inevitability is Barack Obama.


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I am afraid that what Donna Brazile said sounds like a call to race rioting..... Sancho

Are the Clintonites already shamelessly race baiting?
Are these people really tryinhg to make it impossible for me to show up next November?

"A senior Obama adviser, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Obama's team will respond to Tuesday's results by going negative on Clinton — raising questions about her tax records and the source of donations to the Clinton presidential library, among skeletons in the Clintons' past."

That would certainly be something new for the Obama campaign. Not taking the high road anymore, or can he do this as a question of integrity and not as a smear campaign?

I think he can do it and not come off as negative. The argument is that if Hillary is the nominee the voters need to know what is in those tax documents and White House records becuse if their is some skeletons hidden within, then she will torpedo the chances of the Democrats to win in November. In essence, he can make an argument that the voters have a right to know. Which isn't a negative argument, but a realistic argument.

Also, Obama should ramp up his own attack on the media to hammer this point. He should say that she has now received a free pass on this issue for far too long and that someone really needs to figure out what is going on here. It doesn't take all that much to release tax documents and there is no known reason for why the White House records haven't yet been released.

Obama needs to change the conversation and retake the narrative and I really do not see any other way of going about it.

I'm with you on Clinton's tax returns being a legitimate issue. Clinton should put all of her cards on the table before the convention. So far, she has had a free pass on what I consider to be one of the most potentially damaging issues in a general election.

Bill Clinton certainly has a right to earn a living but a lot of voters will be turned off if he has been paid big bucks by Middle East billionaires with ties to radical Islamists. We already know that Bill advised the Dubai company that wanted to buy US ports. I'd like to hear him say he was not paid for his advice.

For some reason, the Dems have ignored the recent NY Times and Blooomberg News stories about Bill, the Canadian financial magnate and a Central Asian dictator.

I suppose the reason that Hillary is getting a pass on Bill's financial affairs is that no Dem wants to be on record questioning a former president of the United States. John McCain and the GOP will have no such compunction.

Message to Hillary: Liberate those tax returns!

I think its time to break out the 527 to go on the attack against the clintons. Obama can disavow the 527 all day long and decry such politics and then reap the benefits. Back up the dump truck and dump it on the clintons.

By the way clinton cultists, congrats on your candidate winning yesterday. She'll never win the presidency and will bring down the democratic party in the process. Congrats.

Donna's right, but I'm afraid that she and her colleagues don't have many options this morning.

Obama's pledged delegate still seems insurmountable, but nobody can reasonably ask Clinton to bow out now, after blowing out Ohio so completely. Nor can one realistically expect her to stop using attack tactics, when they're proving to be her best weapon in such a competitive contest.

I don't see an endgame here. We can survive a fight through Pennsylvania but it's not likely that that contest will settle anything, unless there's another reversal and Obama wins hugely. So it'll be on to the next state, and the next...

It we go to a brokered convention, one of three things will happen:

Obama leads elected delegates and is nominated but is badly damaged by the primary fighting. McCain is strongly favored in the fall.

Obama leads on elected delegates but the party chooses Clinton instead. In this case, McCain wins easily and the party splinters badly.

Clinton wins elected delegates and is nominated. Even the Clinton people don't believe this is likely. If it somehow happens, I believe the party will unite around her, but with enough bruised feelings that McCain is again strongly favored.

So how does the party prevent this bleak outcome? I don't know the answer, but I do think ruling out the second scenario -- a superdelegate chosen candidate -- is a good path towards ending the primary process early. I understand what Josh and others write about wanting to choose which ever candiate looks stronger at the time of the convention, but I don't think the party can survive the split such a decision would result in.

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Good comments, OhioGuy, except perhaps for this: "after blowing out Ohio so completely"

It is strange to call that a blowout when, say, taking Survey USA polling over the past month, she went from a 17 point lead less than four weeks ago......to drop seven points of that lead and then win by, em, a 10 point lead.

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Did I miss something, or did the Clintons fail to cut Obama's delegate lead to 25 as they predicted? How many net delegates did she pick up with her 3 victories?

It's about the math folks. Ignore the spin. Look at the numbers.

3 of 4.
3 of 15.
14 of 41.

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You are so right. I woke up this morning thinking I'm tired of this nonsense. It's over, Clinton can't beat him. So why should I listen to her campaign tell me why she should be winning, or worse why he shouldn't be winning? Seems like a huge waste of time.

It must be early, because I can't figure out what those numbers represent.

(I know I'll have a "Doh!" moment here...)

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Clinton record in the March 4th Primaries.
Clinton record after Super Tuesday.
Clinton record for total Democratic primaries and caucuses.

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As some have said recently, if it was Hillary Clinton that had won 25 (possibly 26) elections out of a total of 40, that had the lead in delegate counts which include super delegates and she had won the popular vote so far – the media and the Democrat establishment would have asked Barack Obama to drop out of the race for the ‘good’ of the Party long ago.

The establishment and media are not only allowing Hillary to stay in the race, they are now talking about ‘saving her’ by having Do-Overs in Florida (population of mostly seniors – Hillary’s strength) and in Michigan even though the DNC denied them delegate counts if they went ahead and voted early against the DNC rules. We all know she won those States previously. How dare they!

"If these attacks are contrasts based on policy differences, there is no need to stop the race or halt the debate," Brazile said. "But, if this is more division, more diversion from the issues and more of the same politics of personal destruction, chairman Dean and other should be on standby."

I don't always agree with her, but she's right on the money here.

Up until now, Obama has criticized Clinton on issue grounds -- her vote for the Iraq war, the health insurance mandate, flip-flopping on NAFTA -- while Clinton has attacked Obama on personal grounds -- not ready to be commander in chief, all he's done is give a speech, etc.

Yes, we know Republicans will also engage in the politics of personal destruction, but why should Hillary do the job for them?

I do think if she continues this approach -- and there's little doubt she will as the campaign will attribute her victories to their getting down and dirty -- then turnabout would be more than fair play. And her vulnerabilities on these fronts are greater than Obama's -- the Norman Hsus and sleazy fundraising, the various Clinton administration scandals from Travelgate to the Marc Rich pardon, the tax returns, Bill Clinton's Kazakh dealings, the hidden White House records. All the things to remind us that their record on veracity and integrity is questionable at best, and that Clinton fatigue is what awaits us if she gets the nomination.

I hope it doesn't come to this, but it may have to. And while Howard Dean and the party elders may well decide to intervene to keep things from getting uglier, I can't imagine the Clinton campaign responding in any way other than giving him their middle finger. Because they still have a sense of entitlement and it's still all about them, not the larger good.

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Obama is the one playing the race card. And so is Donna B. Other than his phantom position in 2002, it is the only poltical card he has right now. He can only win by demonizing Hillary and his research team has figured out she has white skin and he does not. So they are going with that. This tactic is good enough to fool highly educated liberals but it wont play in the GE. The general voter is not so uneducated, politically. Liberal, academic identity politics is not a winning strategy in the long run. And, honestly. Do you really think the Clintons are racists? They have a longer and better track record on these issues than Obama. Ask Stephanie Tubb Jones--the one brave enough to have challenged Bush's election in 04.

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Any reason why you keep trying to inject race into this? I mean other than because you are an ass?

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Yes, sancho, because Obama's path to victory in the general will be due to his continued demonizing of whites. That's a can't miss strategy.

Q: Who decides who gets the democratic nomination?
A: Delegates.

Q: Who has the most Delegates?
A: Obama.

Q: How many Net delegates did Hillary gain on Obama last night.
A: Less than 10.

Q: What would that leave Obama's delegate lead at?
A: Between 149 to 140.

She can't beat him. The math is not there. Sorry to rain on your parade.

"She can't beat him. The math is not there."

Absolutely right. But she can do McCain's job for him and leave him a weakened general election candidate. Which appears to be exactly what her strategy is. Because if Obama were to be the nominee and lose the general, then Hillary could run again in 2012.

Correction:

She can't beat him in pledged delegates. It's pretty clear she's going to go to Denver and argue that she deserves the nomination anyway.

The real question is: Are the Supers buying into this "Ohio counts more than the previous 12 elections" line?


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One thing that's clear:

Obama's got start hitting back harder now.

This will be good practice for the GOP.

Hillary can't win, but he has to show he can hit her hard.

Goooooooooooooooooooobama!!!!!!!!

Now this is what I am talking about:

``We have not hesitated to draw distinctions between the candidates and we'll continue to do that," said Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod. "If Sen. Clinton wants to take the debate to various places, we'll join that debate. We'll do it on our terms and in our own way but if she wants to make issues like ethics and disclosure and law firms and real estate deals and all that stuff issues, as I've said before I don't know why they'd want to go there, but I guess that's where they'll take the race.''

Break out the dump truck.

In reference to David Kurtz's post "Enough Already."
Yes, Obama's supporters are whining. Remember, Obama brought new voters into the process based on changing the status quo in partisan politics. And they can take their votes and walk away from the process just as easily as the came in.

Hillary has learned through out her turbulent career to never give up regardless of the fly-back for those around her. She has learned to never say never, this time she is risking the hopes, and aspirations of the Democratic Party and the women who have placed their hopes and aspirations in her. She is willing play brinksmanship and to fight to the very end, regardless of the cost to the Party.

- Just a few weeks ago Bill Clinton said a race between Hillary and McCain would be the most civil in recent history.

- And just this week Hillary brought out the Kitchen sink against her Democratic Opponent to redefine the lows in "dirty tactics" - (Praising McCain on National Security over Obama, employing Foreign Powers in negative campaign strategy, broadcasting fake Breaking News Items, feeding the flames of racism with the release of the turban photos)

I believe she deserves to be opposed by Democrats with as much voracity as she has shown towards Democrats and her Democratic Opponent.

She wants a fight. LETS FIGHT!

A VERY DANGEROUS PROPOSITION FOR ALL THOSE INVOLVED.

Its unfortunate that we have to get dragged into the mud by Hillary, but since she has demanded it she must have it. Perhaps it has to work this way for Obama - he will have to find a way to hit back harder than he has so far, while maintaining the dignity and authenticity which have attracted us to his campaign in the first place.

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"this time she is risking the hopes, and aspirations of the Democratic Party and the women who have placed their hopes and aspirations in her."
What in the heck are you talking about? We women will now lose all hope? You make no sense. I want her to win because she will make a better President than Obama. But my hope will be ok if she quits, but I will lose it if she stays in the race? Huh?

"I believe she deserves to be opposed by Democrats with as much voracity as she has shown towards Democrats"

Guess what? Hillary is getting more Democrats to vote for her than Obama is.

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One more thing that is bugging me. The big states that Clinton won (by a slim majority) are solid blue states. They will vote Dem in November. I'm tired of her supporters trying to spin the notion that Obama can't win the big states so somehow that gives her the right to pretend she is still a contender.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/03/breaking-news-h.html

The continual flame wars between Hillbots and Obamatons is going to do nothing but send undecided voters and disillusioned voters to John McCain, who despite being a NeoCon in moderate clothing, is sitting back and waiting until he gets a firm opponent, lobbing label-bombs at our party.

Hillary is right. We need to get these two on the same ticket. We need to convince both of them to stop attacking one another and just let the rest of the primaries (including new FL and MI) be on the issues. Whoever is ahead at the end of a POSITIVE ONLY process is at the top of the ticket, whoever loses gets VP.

The key factor is that we can't hamstring either candidate anymore. If the people decide Hillary is who they want, than we Obama supporters must respect that and support her 100%. Of course, the converse is absolutely true too.

I will admit that Hillary's attacks of the last week have been effective; however, at this point on they serve to do nothing but further hurt the party if Obama happens to win the most delegates and Super-delegates.

A super ticket would solve all of our collective problems. He brings youth and inspiration and an ability to put swing states in play, she brings ability to appeal to bread and butter democrats and industrial states. Rather than being happy with winning the same 10 states, this team could win in KS, FL, NC, IA, CO, MO, OH, IN, GA, maybe even TX.

Obviously I'm going to support an Obama/Clinton ticket, but as of this moment (currently 7:01 am PST) I ain't saying another bad thing about Hillary because she *might* be our party's nominee.

I hope that Ms. Clinton (congratulations on last night, by the way) is serious about a super ticket and that they can find a positive and uniting way to bring it about without tearing the party apart. Their ideas are 95% identical, they bring very different strengths to the table. Together they motivate the Democratic base like nobody else can in this time of need.

A 'super ticket' with Obama is the only way Hillary would possibly justify winning by getting super delegates to go against the popular vote. She is going to argue that even though Obama has won more pledged delegates, the supers should maker her the nominee out of seniority, and in return she will run with Obama as VP. But if I were Obama, I would consider the taint on his brand of new politics by capitulating to such a scenario. I really do not think Hillary has as good of a chance against McCain with her high negatives and lack of independent support. Obama might be better off waiting then for 2012. Versus Hillary, McCain wins with conservatives energized against her more than for him, and with positive support of moderates and independents who do like him more than Hillary.

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I think the only thing Dean and elected officials who actually care about the Democratic Party can and should do is try to convince the Clintons to stop trying to poison the well for Obama. If she beats him on the merits, fine. But if they continue with this crap about him not being qualified to be Commander in Chief (as if ANYONE has ever been qualified before they took on the job), then I suggest Dean, Gore, Edwards and others confront her with the idea that THEY will hold a press conference demanding that she release her tax returns and her White House records. Somebody's got to play hardball other than the spittle spewing Matthews maniac!

(as if ANYONE has ever been qualified before they took on the job)

Making the case that he (or she) is not PREPARED for the job is a hardball tactic, but valid. What I think is egregious is Clinton equating her experience with McCain's, and saying that Obama will just bring a speech. Totally over the line.

But as to anyone ever being pre-qualified to become Commander in Chief, of course there have been some:

Washington
Jackson
Grant
T. Roosevelt
Eisenhower

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DARK HORSE, def. 3, Webster's New World Dictionary: "in politics, a person who gets or may get the nomination unexpectedly, often as the result of a compromise. "

In this case, an example might be, oh, John Edwards....

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"I think he can do it and not come off as negative. The argument is that if Hillary is the nominee the voters need to know what is in those tax documents and White House records becuse if their is some skeletons hidden within, then she will torpedo the chances of the Democrats to win in November. In essence, he can make an argument that the voters have a right to know. Which isn't a negative argument, but a realistic argument."

I agree, he has been good at counterpunching when he chooses to do it. He's not as tone-deaf as Hillary, who often hits the wrong note and looks ugly when going negative ("The fun part" as she once put it with a creepy smile)

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Journalists should be more careful with the word "comeback," as painfully noted in the AP excerpt above. Clinton's win in Ohio was anything but a "comeback" for she was *never behind* in Ohio.

Barack Obama's entire campaign has been an exercise in tearing down Hillary Clinton while over-hyping his own resume, asking you to take it on faith -- literally -- that he can do what he says he can do. Their policy differences have always been pretty negligible and he's been attacking Hillary Clinton personally on an almost daily basis, calling into question her "judgement" -- a fair enough question perhaps, but no fairer than questions about his own lack of experience or potential credibility as custodian of the national security -- as well as making a lot of outright distortions about her fundraising, blaming her for having once been the victim of a massive right-wing smear campaign and trying to tar her with guilt by association for everything the US government has done that Democrats didn't like in the past 50 years.

But that's politics, as Donna Brazile should well know. They arguably did as bad or worse to Bill Bradley when she was heading up Al Gore's campaign in 1999-2000. So I guess my question for her would be, why is playing a little hardball only a bad things when Hillary Clinton does it? I can't recall ever hearing her concern-trolling on Barack Obama for any of the above.

As much of a political junky as I am, I'm just about sick of listening to the media jibber jabber speculations, i.e. 'Clinton wins back whites' -- as if the same mob of people is running from state to state to vote in these primaries! While Obama did win over more whites in Wisconsin, Clinton never lost 'the whites' in Ohio in the first place!

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Well, now that Clinton has demonstrated that she can win Ohio, New York, New Jersey, California, Massachusettes, Florida and Michigan, I think Barak Obama should consider dropping out of the race in the name of party unity. Obviously, he cannot win amongst Democrats in Blue States let alone beat a Republican.

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The question is whether or not Obama can win those blue states when up against McCain compared to whether of not Clinton can win the red states that Obama has won when she competes against McCain.

Is Obama going to win California against McCain? Yes.

Is Obama going to win New York against McCain? Yes.

Is Clinton going to win Virginia against McCain? No.

Is Clinton going to win Iowa against McCain? No.

Your argument is weak for a few reasons. First and foremost, she only won Florida and Michigan because (a) Obama did not campaign in Florida as per an agreement that ALL candidates made; and (b) he wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan. So you can discount those two right away, regardless of the ridiculous spin of the Clinton campaign - they will not be seated without a "do-over". The other states are solidly blue and will vote Democratic no matter what in November (with the exception of Ohio, which will most likely go to a Democrat in November because McCain is a big free-trade guy). Obama has won more swing states than she has, and those are the states that will be the most important in November. He will also pull many more independents and even liberal Republicans than she will. There's absolutely no reason for him to drop out now - he's ahead in the delegate count by a fairly substantial margin and there are a lot of primaries yet to come that are very favorable to him.

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To my mind, what Donna Brazile is doing (and has been doing for at least in a month in her attempts to shut down the primary process) is trying to create, rather than describe, reality.

Her statement makes two key claims:
1. She asserts, first, that attacks on identity (which for Brazile always means race, though it could for others include class, gender, and religion, for instance) are being made.
2. Because of this, the DNC needs to step in and stop the vote.

This is not her attempt to describe what is happening but rather her attempt to create and insist upon that reality. That is, she is not standing above personal attacks here (which she ought to be doing), but rather is encouraging others to perpetrate (or, equally, claim that others are perpetrating) such attacks so that she can then insist that voting must stop. This is an implied call to arms for those who want to short circuit the process.

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This was the Democrats' election to lose, since there was no way the Republicans could win it, not after eight years of George W. Bush. But that just might be what happens.

First, the Republicans nominated their strongest candidate. McCain is a guy few Republicans really liked, a man who was almost completely written off last summer. But due to infighting - and the fact that the other candidates were so bad that even Republicans couldn't stand them - McCain got the nomination after all. He's still not popular with their base, but he can pull in the independents if there's not an equally-popular Democratic candidate.

And now, the Democrats are eating their own. Clinton's negatives are so high that she can't win against McCain. And she can't win the Democratic nomination without the dirty trick of seating Michigan and Florida AND persuading the super-delegates to ignore the primary and caucus voters. Do you think Obama supporters will just shrug that off? My vote counted this year, and I don't want anyone taking that away. So what does she really think she's doing?

Furthermore, if she can't get the nomination through dirty tricks, her negative campaigning will really hurt Barack Obama in November. That's not because she's saying anything the Republicans won't, but because they can now point to her and say, "See, even the Democrats admit this." After all, she came right out and said that McCain had the experience to be commander-in-chief, but Obama didn't. If she was conducting a positive campaign (as Obama is), this extended nomination process wouldn't be a problem. But she's not. And since this 'kitchen sink' plan seems to have worked, we'll see a lot more of it from now on.

This was the Democrats' election to lose,... and I'm wondering if we're doing just that.

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While I agree that the Dems have the wit, will and skill to yank defeat from the jaws of defeat, allow me to present another scenario.

The current ebb and flow between Obama and Clinton continues to the convention. Despite the best efforts of Dean and others, the super delegates also remain split. A last minute re-do of FL and MI produce yet another split.

The balloting begins with no clear favorite. No one wins on the first ballot.

Edwards presents himself as an alternative for the second ballot. He gets some votes from both sides but the delegates remain deadlocked, now among 3 candidates.

Going into the 3rd ballot Clinton offers Obama the v-p spot. He says no, offers it to Clinton. She says no. Both offer it to Edwards. He says no. Delegates start to panic as the third ballot stays deadlocked.

Delegates from various states begin to murmur about Gore. A draft develops. Gore remains silent.

In the 4th ballot Gore wipes out Edwards, and is a close third to Obama and Clinton. Edwards withdraws, endorses Gore. Kennedy brokers a deal, endorses Gore. Gore agrees to the draft on condition that Obama or Clinton endorses him.

The tv ratings are through the roof. Bigger than MASH and Dallas combined.

Obama endorses Gore. Gore wins on the 5th ballot. Picks Obama as his VP. Clinton(s) stand with the ticket. Convention goes crazy.

Gore-Obama sweep to victory, carrying huge majorities in the House and Senate. Party healed, nation on the rebound, media happy, McCain melts down.

Fairy tale or possible solution??

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Of course I meant yanking defeat from the jaws of VICTORY...

Maybe I should get some sleep before I blog.

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Hillary staying in is a good thing from Obama and good for the chances of Democrats winning in November.

Clinton staying in and fighting to the to bitter end (with a Clinton, the ends are always bitter) keeps Obama sharp, focus and keeps his campaign on its game. They will need all of that come November.

The very nature of the attacks that Clinton is making against Obama are 1) the same as the attacks that McCain will make and 2) are losing attacks for Clinton in November. Obama is inexperienced, possibly but so is Clinton. McCain isn't going to play nice and let Clinton slide on that, "Her only real credential is that she's a second term Senator from New York."

If Gore had had a toughened campaign staff, then the tragedy of the Florida recounts might have gone better.

Let them fight on.

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I think your analysis is pretty spot on. Obama has to show and prove that he's the guy to put Democrats in November. The question ultimately comes down to how he goes about doing that and whether Clinton further ups the ante such that it results in MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). The latter is not an outcome any Democrat or Democratic-leaning Independent should ever desire. I think this is the crux of what Donna is arguing.

Good point. The 'your child will be murdered in bed' if Obama is president and the 'not a Muslim - as far as we know' moves are likely what Republicans will throw at him too. In this sense I suppose he does have to show he can defend himself better, and hit her back harder for throwing this stuff at him.

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He MUST respond forcefully or powerfully or this thing may start to slip away. If he does not respond, he's doing the same thing Kerry did when he was swiftboated, and we know how that turned out.

He doesn't have to lower himself to her level. But he MUST fight.

And yes, others can take care of the dirty stuff.

Clinton will accuse him of hypocrisy no matter where the attacks come from. But a Clinton calling someone a hypocrite is like Hitler calling someone an anti-Semite.

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Donna Brazile and Howard Dean calling the shots? Get real.

Blame the DNC for the mess the Dems are in. Who was the genius at the DNC that declared that the most appropriate punishment for a REPUBLICAN scheduling decision in Florida was to disenfranchise DEMOCRATS at their convention?
The DNC could have found some other, more proportionate remedy (like bad seats at the Convention).