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Top Hillary Supporter: Some Whites In Pennsylvania "Are Not Ready" To Support Black Candidate
This explanation from a prominent Hillary supporter in Pennsylvania, regarding why he thinks Barack Obama could lose his state, seems a bit off message.
According to a columnist for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Gov. Ed Rendell (D-PA) made the following argument in a meeting with the paper's editorial board as to why Obama could have some difficulty in his state's April 22 primary:
"You've got conservative whites here, and I think there are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate."
Late Update: A reader points out that Obama himself has made similar remarks about the unacceptability of his race to some voters:
"Sure there are some people who will not vote for me because I'm black and there are some people who will vote for me because I am black," he said. "But I think most Americans are looking for a candidate who can get them affordable health care and less dependent on foreign oil."
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Probably a statement of fact.
However, is that what a governor of a state should be saying? Perhaps if he is looking to eliminate that sort of bias. I don't really know what to think on this one, but I am sure this message was not pre-approved by the HRC campaign.
It will be interesting to see how the PA electorate would react to such a statement. I know that a statement like this said in my homestate would cause revulsion and a public rebuke at the polls.
Of course, I live in liberal (and proud of it) Minnesota.
February 12, 2008 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder how this will affect her GE chances in the state should she take the nomination. Once she has (in the minds of black voters) premised her candidacy on the support of white supremacists, will black democrats have much stomach to turn out and support her? And if they do not, can she win PA's electoral votes on the strength of nothing more than the cracker vote?
February 12, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Worse than that, Greg, what does it say to whites democrats in PA who find this offensive?
February 12, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know If I would say worse than that, that being basing your candidates electability argument on white supremacy. Lets just say as bad as that, or almost as bad as that :)
February 12, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
"that" equals "black democrats have much stomach to turn out and support her" and my reference is that white democrats would also have a problem.
Get it?
February 12, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you so far gone that you think that that's a fair way of putting this issue? I mean, "white supremacists"? (Yeah, sure, blame it on "black voters" -- as if they are as irrational as you are. Talk about racist!) Could you be more race-baiting yourself?
February 12, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rendell suggests that "some" white voters will not be able to vote for a black. Do you prefer the gentler "prejudice" or the harder "white supremacy"? It seems to me that either term would apply to what Rendell said.
February 12, 2008 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
You people truly are disgusting. You're going to defend this simply vile accusation?
Look, if you can't see how defamatory and inflammatory "white supremacist" is, what can I say to you? And what in Rendell's statement is equivalent to the assertion that "Hillary has premised her candidacy on the support of white supremacists", as this creature Greg has put it?
Rendell has said NOTHING to indicate that Hillary has "premised her candidacy" on the vote of whites who may be prejudiced, much less on "white supremacists". Has Obama "premised his candidacy" on the vote of that subset of African-Americans who follow Farakhan in deep racism against whites, simply because he may in fact get their votes?
But you guys will throw out any kind of vile accusation because, as it's becoming increasingly obvious, you've got some deep-seated ugliness inside you.
February 12, 2008 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
"White supremacists" does seem an extreme and harsh (certainly not conversational) way of putting it, but it is not logically incoherent.
I come from a white, blue-collar background myself and I can attest that the sentiments in the culture behind 'they're not ready to vote for an African-American' are tantamount to an unarticulated collectivism that sees 'blacks' as a collective threat. How else do you explain 'they're not ready..'?
But we should question the whole premise anyhow as a little truth mixed with perhaps some wishful thinking on the part of a top Hillary backer.
February 12, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, Hillary is playing to the "craker vote" as you call it. I followed the link mentioned in the above article and I think the last sentence by Obama said it all.
"Don't vote your fears," he said, "vote your aspirations."
It seems Hillary is going to go against every progressive value we have...and promote racial fear instead. Um she is running on the DEMOCRATIC side right?
February 12, 2008 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did he forget which side of the Mason-Dixon line he is on?
February 12, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I lived in PA and Rendell is most certainly right. They say it is Philadelphia in the East, Pittsburgh in the West and Alabama in between (or Mississippi- depending on who you ask)... (although hmm- didn't Obama do well in Alabama- I believe the point is that there is a lot of hard core racism there...)
The rural parts of PA are home to some right wing militia groups and Neo-Nazi groups. That having been said- I am not sure Obama was ever courting their vote (or for that matter was Hillary). Basically- Rendell is right but it is certainly off the talking points of the campaign. They really don't want to talk about race again. I think the real problem for Obama in PA is Pittsburgh- white and blue collar workers who are slightly older and very much in the Clinton camp. If I were doing the talking points for Hillary I would stress the working class population that plays to her strength instead of race as Obama's weakness.
February 12, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are people all over the US who will not vote for Obama because he is Black.
do you think PA has a higher percentage than most?
February 12, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Count me as someone who now regrets voting for Rendell in '06.
As a African-American Pennsylvania resident and having lived here for several years, I can attest that Rendell's comment is factually true.
However, as a vocal supporter of Obama's opponent and the governor of said state, he really shouldn't be saying this.
I mean, is he essentially saying also that he won re-election against Lynn Swann because Swann is Black? I guess he didn't feel it necessary to pull race out of the bag when he had Blacks, by and large, ignoring Swann because he's Republican. Now with Obama, an African-American Democrat, presenting a threat to Rendell's political interests, this is the time to mention racial bias?
And Clinton calls Obama transparent?
February 12, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
This whole Pennsylvania theory will only matter if Hillary trounces Obama in both Texas & Ohio. Otherwise, it will all be moot.
Unless it becomes the new firewall.
February 12, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Governor of Pennsylvania, a dem and Hillary supporter, is calling the majority of the democratic party in his state racists.
Do the good people of Pennsylvania agree with him? Does Hillary agree with him?
This is why I don't care for Hillary or her supporters. They take political discourse back to 1968.
February 12, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
He said "some" not the majority so at least quote him correctly. Also I fear if we all close our eyes and pretend racism doesn't exist it will actually never end. Reasoned discussion of the topic and how it might have an effect on elections, jobs and other issues just might help in the long run.
February 13, 2008 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think Obama or Clinton wins in the "racist/bigot" demographic. That is a solid Republican constituency.
February 12, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's disgraceful that the Democratic governor of an important swing state would say this to an editorial board. That campaign is so unbelievably short-sighted.
I hope the AA vote in PA doubles in the primary. And I hope whites in that state make a statement to their governor that they are not racists.
February 12, 2008 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rendell just further assured that the competition will be over before it comes to PA. HRC is toast.
February 12, 2008 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Were conservative whites uncomfortable with a black candidate ever going to vote Democratic?
February 12, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
And we're back to the Clinton campaign playing their race cards.
Why am I not surprised?
February 12, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rendell's an "automatic delegate", right?
Idiot!
February 12, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Call 'im an Ick-y delegate.
February 12, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone notice how Camp Clinton is way more interested in promoting race and gender issues?
HRC has campaign shirts about being the first woman president. Apparently, she feels the need to remind folks she is a woman -- rather than just run on her merits and let people figure her gender on their own.
Her operatives continue to publicly raise racial issues. Dirty, ugly politics.
The Obama campaign, on the otherhand, does not focus on race or gender.
February 12, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is absolutely correct and something I've been reminding people as often as I can.
It also goes back that gender and race are emotional issues.
I suppose one could say that's because HRC, as a woman, can only deal with things "emotionally." ;-)
Damn! Those stereotypes cut both ways, don't they?
February 12, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sometimes the facts aren't politically correct.
Rendell is right. And it's not just PA that we will see this phenomenon.
February 12, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sure, but that does not oblige one to discuss said facts with the editorial board of a large newspaper. The fact that Gov Rendell chose to do so suggests that he is not simply musing over an unpleasant reality, but rather is trying to exploit said unpleasant reality in a rather unseemly fashion.
As I intimated above, I am not sure that this is a very sound long-term strategy. Does Gov Rendell really wish to create an association in the minds of the Post-Gazette's readers (especially its black readers) that Clinton is the candidate for white supremacists? Will this really help her candidacy in this important swing state in the fall?
February 12, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whether it's a woman or a minority, this issue has to be faced head-on, by every voter, and perhaps in the privacy of a voting booth. Does that mean that we, as democrats, have to endlessly cower at the prospect?
There are ways to confront and defeat prejudice. Here's just one. If a grandchild is of voting age and an Obama supporter, ask grandparents to support Obama. In at least one case, the grandparent admitted to prejudice, yet agreed it was wrong and agreed to support the grandchild's choice.
The Obama-supporting younger folk have been raised by someone! That someone is older, may have a bit of prejudice, and knows that it is wrong. The young folks will take the lead on this one and provide the good example.
Let's try not to be wimpy about this issue.
February 12, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
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February 12, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Evie,
You should make that post its own entry. I'm certain we'll see it on the most-recommended soon enough.
(and I am copying this post in case it breaks again).
February 12, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kind of cuts into their argument that they can unite the party.
February 12, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
This was bad of him to say, whether or not it's true of Pennsyltucky. But the crazy thing is that he compared Obama to Lynn Swann! Lynn Swann, the sacrificial lamb the Republicans served up against Rendell, a relatively popular incumbent. I loved that Rendell stopped just short of calling Swann "articulate."
me: Quiz time! Who said: "You've got conservative whites here, and I think there
are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate." Guess!
boyfriend: Pat Buchanan? Bill O'Reilly?
me: ED RENDELL.
February 12, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
More northern racists blaming their outrageous behavior on their southern neighbors.
February 12, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rendell does this. Clinton comes out with the proud blacks remarks after losing in Maine, LA, Washington. Im sure closet Billary hacks will still give them the benefit of the racist's doubt when it comes to all this crap.
Pathetic.
This stuff is great though from another perspective. This crap exposes the closeted white "liberal" racists that surround us.
February 12, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Appears to me to be an attempt at getting the Obama campaign to take the race bait.
February 12, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed.
February 12, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Appears to me to be an attempt at getting the Obama campaign to take the race bait.
February 12, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ditto!
February 12, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Appears to me to be an attempt at getting the Obama campaign to take the race bait.
February 12, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seconded!
February 12, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rereading the comment, I'd guess he was referencing the general election since PA is a swing state, blowing the "dogwhistle" to whites in Virginia, Maryland and other upcoming states, hoping to stem Obama's momentum.
February 12, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
What Rendell was saying: In a Nutshell
All whites should vote for the White candidate that he supports, because some whites are already going to vote against the black candidate.
Rendell just took himself out of VP consideration with that subliminal racial voting ploy.
With him on the ticket, African American will sit out the general election, and so will this white male.
February 12, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Conservative Voters who are not comfortable voting for an African American are not comfortable voting for a Woman, and more than likely are not comfortable voting Democratic.
February 12, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I believe, looking at the returns in my election, that had Lynn Swann [2006 Republican gubernatorial candidate] been the identical candidate that he was --well-spoken [note: Mr. Rendell did not call the brother "articulate"], charismatic, good-looking -- but white instead of black, instead of winning by 22 points, I would have won by 17 or so."
So, 2.5 out of every 100 Pennsylvanian, according to their governor, would vote against their interests of electing a Republican to avoid voting for a black person.
Downstate Illinois is more racist than middle Pennsylvania. Barack Obama got elected over Alan Keyes (so they cancel out the I'm-afraid-of-blacks vote). You'd think turnout would be down in an uncontested Senate race with people not wanting to vote for a black guy? No, not really.
February 12, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I fully expect a slew of race-baiting by Clinton surrogates in the weeks ahead and this is just the start. Say what you will for the Clinton machine, at a minimum they are a good undercard for Obama to fight as he prepares to beat the Republicans this fall.
February 12, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I demand the Governor and Hillary Clinton go on MSNBC and apologize tonight, and then both be suspended from campaigning. (wink)
February 12, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, for pimping out the racist vote!
February 12, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yet another Clinton surrogate playing the race card.
For off, he's suggesting that Pennsylvanians are racists, which is not a kind statement.
Second, it seems to be an attempt at self-fulfilling prophesy. Which is why the Clintonoids repeatedly mention race every chance they get.
I wonder how Krugman will spin this?
February 12, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
The thing that's shocking about this is that Rendell IS THE GOVENOR OF THE STATE. He's basically calling the whites in his state a bunch of racists. Whether it's true or not is beside the point.
February 12, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I don't think Obama or Clinton wins in the "racist/bigot" demographic. That is a solid Republican constituency."
Exactly. The racist rednecks in mid PA certainly don't like Hillary and don't like feminists either.
But numerically, they are also outweighted by the two big cities. Which is why Kerry and Gore both won there.
February 12, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't believe Rendell actually came out and said this. Whether he believes this or not, it's just not good politics.
February 12, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's Rendell's problem, anyway?
I grew up in Pennsylvania, and I was in college in Philadelphia while he was the mayor there; he seemed like he did a pretty good job, but then after he left, it seems like he lost control of his mouth. He shot Al Gore's legs out from under him in the 2000 recount; now this. And there have been other impolitic things he's blurted out in b etween, though I can't think of any offhand.
I'll be glad when he's out of office and--I hope--out of politics altogether.
February 12, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Way to go Gov!!! Much of your white democratic constituency is too racisr to vote for Obama.
Of course this came from the Clinton campaign.
February 12, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think that this is exactly what Obama means about the past versus the future, hope versus cynicism. Can you picture an Obama supporter telling a newspaper that some people won't vote for a woman?
And besides being outmoded and race-baiting, it's just politically stupid. Was Rendell paying attention at all during the SC campaign?
February 12, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very, very good point. No way on this earth any Obama supporter is able to make a similar comment about women. Heck, Obama gets scrutiny for even suggesting that people simply don't like Hillary specifically.
February 12, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gee can you imagine Obama saying some people won't vote for him because he's black?
Well he did!
So does that make him an ignorant racist HRC swine?
February 12, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama always attaches another phrase to this statement--that they wouldn't have voted for a Democrat anyway.
February 12, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is well accepted that an ethnic person can comment on their own ethnicity. Just check out any ethnic comic on Comedy Central.
But it is horribly unfair for someone in a contest against them to do it. It goes against every progressive value we have. The Hillary Camp needs to get away from the politics of destruction. We are the party of civil rights, remember?
February 12, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Evie:
This is TPM's way of screening out crap. If you have to log in, paste, pray, hope, click your heels three times while reciting "there's no blog like EC, there's no blog like EC, there's no blog like EC", log in a couple of more times, cross your fingers, and THEN, after all that, you're still interested in posting a comment, then this means you're really motivated, and they'll take it.
February 12, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, it beats everyone talking about their prescient code words!
February 12, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like to point out that Obama won by his widest popular vote margin yet in a state that most people know for its white supremecist camps in the north - Idaho. As an Idaho resident, and one who contributed to Obama's victory here, I would suggest that Gov. Rendell open his eyes a bit and look at the states in which Obama has won. Some of his largest victories come from states with very small minority populations. This is clearly a baseless argument coming from an outspoken HRC supporter. Once again, as a few of the earlier comments have noted, Hillary supporters are trying to play the race card to cast doubt on Obama's electibility. All evidence so far points to the contrary. I also agree with the comment made earlier that it is the Republicans, not the Democrats, that usually secure the votes of the "racist/bigot demographic." To be clear, I'm not saying all Republicans are racists and/or bigots, but simply that those types of people don't usually vote in the democratic primaries. They certainly don't vote democrat in the general election, regardless of whether the candidate is white, black, male, or female. Rendell's concerns are baseless, rhetorical, and embarrassing for Pennsylvania Democrats.
February 12, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama has said exactly what Rendell said: some whites ill not vote for him because he's black.
So are you telling Obama he doesn't know what he's talking about?
February 12, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Haha, no doubt, where is Hillary's self righteous indignation now? I fully expect her to "strongly hint" that he should be stripped of his Icky-delegate status, and maybe even impeached! After all, I'd say this is certainly more offensive than the colloquial "pimping" comment. :P
Yeaahh, somehow I don't think she'll even step up and say she disapproves, just like all of her other surrogates' comments. Hell, with Bob Johnson she actually had the audacity to back him up and say he wasn't talking about what he was clearly talking about.
Shameless.
February 12, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does Obama have to withdraw from the race since he said that some whites won't vote for a black for president?
February 12, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
What a remarkable comment from a Democratic governor. What are his motivations? Did the reporter ask him why he thinks this? Doesn't he know that anything is possible - I live in Georgia and Obama got 43% of the white vote. Granted, the 43% weren't "white conservatives" but they were white.
February 12, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe we should petition the governor of PA to chastise Rendell for his racist remarks.
Oh wait!...never mind.
February 12, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I second everything on this blog
1. White conservatives don't vote for women either
2. White conservatives don't vote democratic.
3. White conservatives don't need the Governor saying this as a matter of fact. If he truly believes this than he should speak out against this type of thing. That is what I call LEADERSHIP.
February 12, 2008 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem is that Rendell is giving cover to those conservative whites who have some unease about Obama's race. It fosters a climate that says its OK to be a racist.
February 12, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I grew up in central PA and my folks still live there. Rendell is right. My dad, a conservative Republican now strongly supporting Obama, told me this exact thing yesterday--he expected the vast majority of Democrats in his area to vote for Hillary because they are racists who won't vote for an African-American. He was very pessimistic about Obama in PA. I hope he's wrong.
February 12, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's all BS. PA Democrats will vote for Obama. Most of the white men will vote for Obama before Hillary. Rendell is trying to set the stage but it will backfire.
February 12, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ed Rendell has just trashed himself and the Clinton campaign. In truth the attitudinal polling I have seen says that American voters have less problem voting for an AA candidate than they do a female candidate. Does Gov. Rendell want to address that issue? This guy is supposed to be a pro, how inept can you get??
February 12, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm from Kentucky, and in the friendliest fashion possible I'd like to request that people not use "tucky" as a suffix signifying backwardness and racism. Thanks.
February 12, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who's surprised that Sargent's latest blog post is about there being no hard evidence that Billary is playing the race card? LOL
Shillary and her supporters know this is being said about her, yet they still come out with the same racially charged bullshit, and the racist apologists like Greg and Krugman can't type their defense of her and her cronies fast enough.
February 12, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's just too rich, TM.
Anyone with eyes can see it. Sargent's eyes must be willfully closed to contort the way he does to avoid acknowledging this "explosive" truth, as he calls it.
Did Camp Clinton say, "String Obama up?" No.
Do they allude to his race on a frequent basis, and how it is a detriment to his electability? Yes, continually.
Anyone with eyes can see it.
February 12, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
For posterity, here's the "Breaking" story that "the case just hasn't been made convincingly enough" that Camp Hillary plays the race card.
For the record, HRC & Co continually play the gender card as well in their attempt to divide and conquer their way to the nomination.
If Sargent and his cohort of "roughly half a dozen people" who don't see the race card need help, how about contrasting Camp Hillary's continuing mention of race and gender with the Obama campaign's virtually never mentioning either.
February 12, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah I saw that. I guess he just thinks Hillary, her husband and her supporters - from campaign workers to Governors - are too simple to realize when they are accidentally race baiting. I hope Greg doesn't get any emails about someone from Nigeria needing to hide some funds temporarily in his bank account, or he might be in trouble.
February 12, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
According to a columnist for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Gov. Ed Rendell (D-PA) made the following argument in a meeting with the paper's editorial board as to why Obama could have some difficulty in his state's April 22 primary:
"You've got conservative whites here, and I think there are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate."
---
The Pittsburhg Post-Gazette is rabidly right wing.
February 12, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
And yet those rabidly right wing guys hired the African-American reporter who actually wrote the story. Looks like they aren't as rabidly right wing as the democrats who won't vote for African-American candidates.
February 12, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a constituent of Rendell I will be contacting his office to request an apology to my fellow Pennsylvanians for his insinuations. If he wants to talk about racism, than it should be to denounce it. If he wants to talk about it in the context of Obama's candidacy than it should be to point out his broad appeal to all races. Instead he was playing the race card to insinuate Hillary is more electable. Defending the statement to say that he's right that racism exists in Pennsylvania is idiotic. We also know that it exists as does sexism. When I see our elected officials taking on these issues I believe they are serving the interests of our nation. When I see something like this my trust in our government declines and I didn't think it could get lower. I do not expect this kind of behavior from Democrats.
February 12, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's all in the context. Obama could say the N-word too, but I would strongly advise Rendell to refrain from doing so. Look, when Obama says that some people won't vote for him because of his race but that it's not important to most Americans, he is attempting to diminish race as a political factor. When Rendell says such things, he is trying to make race a political issue. And even if he isn't trying to, that is the consequence--more racial divisiveness in the Democrat party--and that's what gets people so angry when Clinton supporters can't seem to shut up about race.
February 12, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
FRS, I think that is exactly what is the most offensive about his comments.
We all know there are racists out there who will not vote for Obama, and sexists out there who will not vote for Clinton (though, I think the numbers for both are greatly exaggerated, perhaps in part by people who are projecting their own issues). The problem is when elected officials start to in a way sanction that attitude as acceptable or at least tolerable, which is what Rendell appears to be doing.
Even worse, because Rendell has endorsed another candidate, his statement gives the perception that he thinks the racism of others is something that should be factored into "your" vote. "Don't vote for Barack because he isn't going to win because he is black and there are racists out there," which is just a convoluted way of saying "don't vote for Barack because he is black."
February 12, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Demagirl nails it.
February 12, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are also some males and females who won't vote for a woman. So do we play to the racists and the sexists or do we offer the best candidates to the American public? I think the answer in 2008 is pretty obvious, but Ed (never opposed the Iraq war) Rendell may think differently.
February 12, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the point is, it isn't the place of a governor of a state to say this about his own state. Obama was making a broad observation that racism exists, he wasn't pointing the finger at the electorate in a single state and saying "I won't win here because there are too many racist whites".
THAT'S the point.
And I think it is BS because Obama has won places that are as white as snow, and Pennsylvania isn't in the South, so really I'm just not buying it. In somewhere like Texas or Oklahoma I'd believe it, but Pennsylvania? I think he is exaggerating (I hope).
February 12, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
"It seems I keep defying the notion that America is not ready for me." is the Obama quote.
February 12, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Kleefeld, the Obama quote isn't even the same thing. Obama recognizes the fact that racial bias exists against him in some circles, but doesn't have a blatant agenda in mentioning that fact. Rendell does. Some may call it a double standard, but the context of each comment matters enormously - certainly much more that you and TPM seem to imply.
February 12, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sargent's latest
Sargent is not convinced. Are any of you?
February 12, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of the panelists on *Meet the Press* said something to the effect that people hear different things when race &/or gender are involved. I live in Pennsylvania and believe that there will be Democrats who will have a hard time deciding to show up when the choice is between a woman and a black man. And I *live* in one of the big cities. I would have hoped that Governor Rendell would have learned from the reaction to Bill Clinton's remarks in South Carolina that candor is dangerous in this climate. That saddens me-- So I'd be skeptical about polling data out of PA, since the more politically correct will often not admit to their personal preferences in public. With that said, I'd certainly like to know the entire context in which the Governor was quoted. And how stupid do you think the Clinton campaign is? They just (sort of) stamped out the last fire. What possible advantage would there be to "playing the race card"? It's not going to change the mind of anyone who hadn't made up his/her mind up anyhow. Pennsylvania is not as easy to understand as racist/non-racist, though. Particularly in Western PA, the continual loss of jobs since steel departed has produced many desperate people, some of whom scapegoat to make sense of their situation. What a concept, though--politicians being criticized for telling their concept of the truth. No wonder they don't do it very often.
February 12, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quote: "Sometimes the facts aren't politically correct.
Rendell is right. And it's not just PA that we will see this phenomenon."
Yes, and there are really terrorists out to get us. But when the Republicans inflame concern about terrorism right before an election, it's called fear-mongering.
And that's what Rendell is doing here: Trying to scare Dems into thinking there are sufficient voters who would never vote for an African American that Obama could never win, so they better vote for Hillary instead.
Identity politics at its worst -- and brought to you here by the Clinton campaign.
February 12, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
You want to see identity politics? Check out this Hillary merchandise.
Seems like she has her bases just about covered.
And a question for Sargent, if Camp Clinton is NOT playing the race card, why do these racial comments keep on a'comin'? If she was committed to NOT playing the race card, wouldn't there have been a memo by not to her supporters to NOT mention race? But the comments just keep on a'comin.
Don't vote for Hillary because she's the best but because Obama is black, that's the message that keeps bubbling up.
February 12, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brought to you by the same guy who brought us Microtrends.
I have to say, it's the button where Hillary says she's my "girl" sexist? ;-)
February 12, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is certainly a dumb comment to make, but it is probably true. The follow up question to him should have been "do you think it is a large enough percentage to make a difference in the election". Of course if the answer is "yes" the follow up question should be..... "why the hell do you live there then?" :)
As a side note, I live in one of the most rural counties in Maryland, and recently went door to door campaigning for Obama. Out of the mabye 150 houses I went to there were 2 that did not seem open to voting for a black person. The comments were:
90 year old man saying
"I have no use bor a black man." when I asked him if he was planning on supporting Obama.
a 20something ish person saying "I won't vote for him because he is a muslim." After explaining that he was not a muslim. He said "doesn't matter its in his blood"
So,yes there is still real hardcore racism. No, I do not think it will sway this election at all. It is also possible with every year people like those 2 will not be around to carry on their racism, either because of old age or general stupidity and lack of survival skills.
February 12, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
You cannot seriously be suggesting the statements are similar.
February 12, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. TPM is garbage. The front page placement of Rendell with his BS with an Obama quote-link beneath it?
With friends like some of these white "liberals" African-Americans don't need enemies.
February 12, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rendell isn't being criticized for telling the truth - he's being criticized for telling a partial truth that highlights the opponent of the candidate he supports. There are probably also people who wouldn't vote for a woman, but he didn't mention that, he only mentioned race. That's using race for political gain, something Democrats should not be doing.
February 12, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eric: The addition of the Obama quote takes it completely out of context and gives the appearance that you're offering some sort of cover for Rendell's indefensible commentary.
February 12, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Other people have made this point, but I think it's important, so I'll make it again:
What Barack Obama said and what Ed Rendell said may appear similar, but the contextual differences are huge:
Obama was recognizing a political reality that he needs to deal with.
Rendell was implying that Obama is less electable than Hillary Clinton, the candidate he supports, because Obama is black and Clinton is white.
It's one thing to recognize that Obama's race is an obstacle with some voters. It's another thing altogether for Clinton supporters to make part of their case about the fact that Obama's race is an obstacle with some voters.
February 12, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just as a clarification, if you read the whole article it seems he is talking about general election prospects, not Dem primary. He is probably right. People have been trying to generalize the success Obama has had with white voters in the Dem primaries and caucuses out to the general election. I just don't think the same math applies.
February 12, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am a PA resident - I actually live in Pittsburgh.
The Post-Gazette is actually the much more liberal of the papers here. The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review is the right wing outlet in the area - it's owned by Richard Scaife Mellon.
Anyhow, I just sent a note to the Governor's office telling him that I wasn't pleased with his comments. I'm a white Democrat and I plan to vote for Obama in the primary. It's fine if he wants to endorse HRC in his capacity as a superdelegate but to imply that I'm not capable of voting the issues really chaps my hide.
Then again, by his logic, he probably believes that I would vote for HRC since she's a white woman and so am I. If she wins the primaries, I will vote for her but as far as the primaries go, I'll vote Obama, thanks very much.
February 12, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
What Rendell meant: In A Nutshell.
All whites might as well vote for the white candidate that I have endorsed because some whites will not vote for her black opponent.
This guy better not be on the ticket, or African Americans will sit out the election, and so will this white male.
February 12, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's one thing to recognize that Obama's race is an obstacle with some voters. It's another thing altogether for Clinton supporters to make part of their case about the fact that Obama's race is an obstacle with some voters.
They are all trying to make "electability" arguments. It is perfectly valid for Obama to say that lots of people won't vote for Clinton because she is a woman. That is true. Also true that she has high negatives, which he points out every time he speaks. If his race or her gender makes one of them less likely to beat McCain, we have a right to take that into account.
February 12, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
"They are all trying to make 'electability' arguments. It is perfectly valid for Obama to say that lots of people won't vote for Clinton because she is a woman. That is true. Also true that she has high negatives, which he points out every time he speaks. If his race or her gender makes one of them less likely to beat McCain, we have a right to take that into account." - posted by Marie.
I guess we just disagree about the kind of leadership we think our elected officials should provide. You can base your vote on whatever you want, but I'm disturbed to see a Democratic governor of a big state playing to fears about racism in an attempt to beat the African-American candidate. I think that shows a real lack of moral leadership. I'd be equally troubled if Obama or any of the elected officials who support him were suggesting Clinton was less electable because of her gender, but so far I'm not aware of that happening.
February 12, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
"It is perfectly valid for Obama to say that lots of people won't vote for Clinton because she is a woman."
It very well may be valid for Obama to say people won't vote for her because of her gender. But, unlike the Clinton campaign, he doesn't.
Kind of a big difference there, don't you think?
February 12, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
As an ex-Pennslyvanian, Mr Rendell reflects the attitudes of the vast majoriety of his constituency, Repub and Dem who live outside the urban centers. They are rabidly 'reverse discrimination' and bitterly resent welfare recipients.
February 12, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
From the article in the Post-Gazette:
Many analysts see Pennsylvania as a promising state for Mrs. Clinton. According to one report, the Obama strategists are among them. Exit polls in previous states suggest that one demographic plus for the New York senator is that Pennsylvania has one of the nation's oldest populations. Older voters have been among Mrs. Clinton's most reliable supporters.
"We're an old state, second oldest in the union, so, advantage Clinton,'' said Mr. Rendell, who has endorsed Mrs. Clinton.
But referring to Mr. Obama's strength among younger voters he added, "We have a lot of college students who can register here -- so advantage Sen. Obama."
"You've got conservative whites here, and I think there are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate," he said. "I believe, looking at the returns in my election, that had Lynn Swann [the 2006 GOP gubernatorial candidate] been the identical candidate that he was -- well-spoken, charismatic, good-looking -- but white instead of black, instead of winning by 22 points, I would have won by 17 or so.
"And that [attitude] exists. But on the other hand, that is counterbalanced by Obama's ability to bring new voters into the electoral pool."
I'm not seeing this as a racist comment, but a comment on racism. It's still better left unsaid IMHO.
February 12, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I live in central Pa (hence the screen-name), and my reading is that Rendell is still campaigning for VP. He came out recently with an endorsement of Hillary, which seemed odd. I think they're panicking and trying to set all the fire breaks they can, and a big endorsement in PA (like the one from Glenn in Ohio, FWIW) is the only thing they can think of.
Now, Rendell's comments about racial attitudes here are true, but they certainly aren't unique to Pa. Also, I think this whole thing is so fluid that Obama has some time to let people get to know him here. I'm surrounded by Republicans at work, and at home, but they're not the Sean Hannity types. They're more like a mix of Eisenhower/Dole types, straight out of the 50s. A lot of them are very moderate, and several have told me that they're considering switching parties to vote for Obama because they're so disgusted and embarassed by BushCo.
Yeah, there are the skinheads and neo-nazis up in the hinterlands (where they came after being hounded out of Idaho), but that sort is everywhere.
I actually have more faith in my fellow Pennsylvanians that Rendell does, but again, i think he's just doing what he thinks will help Hillary. He's wrong, but this was just a political move to block Obama and create Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Dumb. And it won't work.
February 12, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Errr...these comments about candor and Rendell stating the truth really erk me. You don't just make some observation like this and leave it out there unless you are trying to imply something. Did he immediately denounce that kind of behavior as racism? Did he talk about Obama's ability to overcome race in other primaries?
February 12, 2008 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I'm not seeing this as a racist comment, but a comment on racism. It's still better left unsaid IMHO."
As governor, rather than just stating facts, it would be nice if he could call the voters to look beyond race and gender and vote for the best candidate.
It's ashame he seems to be pushing a self-fulfilling prophesy, as "factual" as it may be.
It is troubling that sooo many of Clinton surrogates are playing up the race card, rather than deploring it. *They* have made this election all about race and gender, and I find it disgraceful. I once supported the Clintons but have honestly been troubled by this pattern of race-baiting.
February 12, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is where you are wrong becuse you never bothered to go to the original article. You just want to throw bombs.
February 12, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
My impression of Rendell:
Rendell: [offering Pennsylvania on a silver platter to Barrack Obama]
February 12, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Should Obama get the dem nom., race will, obviously, be an issue in the GE. It will be interesting to see to what extent the "I can't believe s/he's saying race is an issue!" line will continue to protect Obama or just rile the racists up. (Isn't it true that McCain has spent MLK's birthday with white apologists? Not this year, but maybe last year? I remember a story about it--a version of Reagan kicking off his '80 campaign over the graves of civil rights workers). States like Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virgina, and Missouri will be battlegrounds for this fight and I have no idea what is going to happen.
America is all about race--our history is in large part the history of slavery and its eradication and then the attempt to gain full and equal citizenship for the slaves and their descendants. Obama's nomination will give all Americans a chance to watch that history played out again, in a very compressed, dramatic space.
February 12, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well then I guess he is just prejudiced against young people because he said older voters will go to Clinton.
Oh wait, I guess he is prejudiced against young people because he said the youth are voting for Obama.
Sheesh. Give it a rest.
February 12, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree this won't help Hillary and he shouldn't have said it.
February 12, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
woldman said: Did he immediately denounce that kind of behavior as racism? Did he talk about Obama's ability to overcome race in other primaries?
What you seem to fail to understand is that conservative whites in PA see their attitudes toward Barack, who in their minds represents the hated welfre system, as a badge of honor. They viscerally hate anyone who would accept welfare since they often suffered brutally in their efforts to pull themselves out of abject poverty foisted on them by the steel and mine owners.
To them Barck will expand the welfare system and put them at an even greater disadvantage when it comes to job security. Do they have a right to fear him? Who knows?
February 12, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
What you fail to understand is that this is not about their reasons for being racists. It's about an elected official using the race card. Unacceptable.
February 12, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm an Obama supporter and delegate living in the Pittsburgh area. Here in Allegheny County, the problem for Obama is not racism. While it does exist the issue for Obama here is age. We have one of the oldest populations in all of the country - and that bodes well for Hillary. While some older folks are pulling for Obama, the large majority of them are for Hillary, but I can say from my experience circulating petitions that the bulk of the other Democrats are pulling for Obama.
This was evident this past Sunday when Hillary easily won a straw poll at the Allegheny County Endorsement meeting, which was decided by Democratic Committee members who are typically over the age of 50 and 60. Despite her success in the poll, Obama supporters here re much more active, visible, and and fired up than anyone supporting Clinton. At the endorsement meeting the Clinton table that was right next to ours was literally trying to poach our petition signers. We had a lot more volunteers and a lot more activity and interest from passer bys who were white, black, young, and old.
As for the racists conservative whites in the Commonwealth - yes, they do exists but these "Neanderthals" as one voter here called them, are the majority of the Republicans in the state who live outside of the major urban areas of Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Erie.
The race here, if it happens, will come down to how well Obama does out in the Philadelphia suburbs. Western PA For Obama is ready for a race here and we will be helping out with Eastern Ohio. If it comes down to PA I can assure you support for Obama here is strong and it is going to be a close one!
February 12, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
This sounds like Missouri. Obama will have older female supporters and these gals can be quite effective in canvassing neighborhoods where the older folk live. One point that works is that it is time to trust the young folks on this one and they support Obama. Another is that we want young people excited about politics and about voting and it is time for that. Everyone won't be convinced--but enough will be.
Face-to-face contact works if one has enough people to make it happen. Obama had enough here in Missouri.
February 12, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Poor Rendell. I guess only in America will an Italian consider himself ango/white.
February 12, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very funny comment!
February 12, 2008 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
So this is what passes as controversy on this blog -- governor Rendell makes a point made by about a million political analysts including Barak Obama himself -- that some white folks are too bigoted to vote for a Black candidate. Oh the horror, how could he state the obvious? That's like saying that some evangicals wouldn't vote for Romney becaue he is Mormon (a statement made about a million and one times); or that Hillary is likely to do well among female voters (a statement made about a million and two times). For God's Sake I am an African American male and an Obama supporter and it does not come as shocking news to me that some people are not willing to vote for a Black candidate. Sorry, I am not going to fall in line and call another respected democrat racist for making a non-racist statement. I have never seen such simple minded willingness to let fly with false allegations of racism. Sadly, when people so freely cry racism when it doesn't exist, they will not be heard or respected when the real thing rears its ugly head.
February 12, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
What the Governor actually meant:
Some whites will not vote for a black candidate, so all whites might as well follow the racists' lead, and just vote for the white candidate that I, Ed. Rendell am supporting.
And the Clintons still wonder why they have alienated the African American community!. If they really are that clueless, the are not worthy of anyone's vote.
February 12, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ed Rendell is right.
There are lotsa whites who wont vote for a black person, simply because he or she is black.
Sad but true.
At least he's honest about it.
February 12, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know this is sacrilegious but I kinda like that the HRC camp is wiggling race back into the primary season.
It tells me very clearly that this is their best shot at Obama.
I would infer that they have pulled nothing up on Obama at all. In the meantime, we all know what happens when you turn over a Clinton rock -- which no one has done yet on this campaign in a major way.
This means that Obamas arsenal is still quite a bit larger than the Clintons.
February 12, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Sure there are some people who will not vote for me because I'm black and there are some people who will vote for me because I am black," he said.
Listen to your own candidate. Race card, my ass. That 'race card' whine from Barry's Boys has become reflexive. Rendell speaks the truth and...? He's playing the race card. Bill Clinton relays historical facts about South Carolina and...? He's playing the race card. Cheezuz.
But I guess when your candidate is a guy that has nothing more than "one speech, a shoeshine and a smile", what else you gonna do.
February 12, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem I have with these type of statements is they are coming from skilled politicians in the middle of a nomination process.
Surely they choose their words carefully and for the impact that they may have on the people.
And they always have to go out of their way to assure that they weren't meant to be racial.
Granted some people are overly sensitive to any statement that may insinuate race.
Yet, the Governor has never said to the editorial board of any newspaper that "some whites will never vote for a Jew", while he was running for office. That may be just as obvious as what he did say concerning Mr. Obama.
I question his reasoning of having to say it at all.
February 12, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem I have with these type of statements is they are coming from skilled politicians in the middle of a nomination process.
Surely they choose their words carefully and for the impact that they may have on the people.
And they always have to go out of their way to assure that they weren't meant to be racial.
Granted some people are overly sensitive to any statement that may insinuate race.
Yet, the Governor has never said to the editorial board of any newspaper that "some whites will never vote for a Jew", while he was running for office. That may be just as obvious as what he did say concerning Mr. Obama.
I question his reasoning of having to say it at all.
February 12, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem I have with these type of statements is they are coming from skilled politicians in the middle of a nomination process.
Surely they choose their words carefully and for the impact that they may have on the people.
And they always have to go out of their way to assure that they weren't meant to be racial.
Granted some people are overly sensitive to any statement that may insinuate race.
Yet, the Governor has never said to the editorial board of any newspaper that "some whites will never vote for a Jew", while he was running for office. That may be just as obvious as what he did say concerning Mr. Obama.
I question his reasoning of having to say it at all.
February 12, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem I have with these type of statements is they are coming from skilled politicians in the middle of a nomination process.
Surely they choose their words carefully and for the impact that they may have on the people.
And they always have to go out of their way to assure that they weren't meant to be racial.
Granted some people are overly sensitive to any statement that may insinuate race.
Yet, the Governor has never said to the editorial board of any newspaper that "some whites will never vote for a Jew", while he was running for office. That may be just as obvious as what he did say concerning Mr. Obama.
I question his reasoning of having to say it at all.
February 12, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've written a request for an apology to Governor Rendell, and I encourage other Pennsylvania residents to do the same as they see fit.
My letter to Rendell, just sent through his website (http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Governor/govmail.html):
"Dear Governor Rendell,
I thank you for your service to the Commonwealth.
However, today I must ask to request an apology for your comments to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. When the delicate matter of race arises, I believe a Governor's role should be to denounce it - not to exacerbate its damaging effects for political gain. I sincerely believe this to be your primary motivation for making those comments - specifically, the political gain of the presidential candidate you've endorsed, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton. In doing so, you've insulted thousands of your constituents.
You've made Pennsylvania's non-Black citizens out to be bigots, and African-American constituents like myself are now left to wonder whether, should Senator Clinton triumph in the Democratic primary, race was the primary reason why!
You've done a disservice to your candidate, to your state and to yourself. As your constituent, I am requesting a formal apology and retraction of those comments."
February 12, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is just another example for me of the politics we want to leave behind. I don't believe Rendell is a racist, but a cynic and one willing to do anything to advance his agenda. In the comments I keep hearing people asking where is the substance in Obama's speech. What you are missing is the politics of fear and cynicism. If Rendell's message doesn't seem out of the ordinary, it's because you've accepted manipulation and division as a means to an end or at least resigned yourself to having politicians that are out of touch with the people. Bush and company have done a lot of damage, but I believe have also given us the contrast needed to recognize how much better we can be. Obama is representative of this because he sees it, not just because he says it.
February 12, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Ed is clearly doing the Klinton's bidding here--he is WAY too experienced to wade into this stuff without clearance from the Ready On Day One ™ leader. I think there is a demarcation line here: get enough people thinking like this early on and you MIGHT suppress some of the vote. If you wait until after the Potomac Primary, when presumably the wave for Obama will be sweeping in, it's likely to backfire.
These old-school hacks have fought the Klinton wars so long they think just like Republicans now. There is a generational divide here, not restricted by age but rather by mindset. These fossils belong to the past and are going to get left behind in the dust. Shame on you, Mr. Ed.
February 12, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
mmm..really dont know why my post is up here 4 times..dont yell at me
:)
February 12, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since we are talking of race/gender:
We often hear (especially from feminists) how gender is the last "okay" prejudice to have and not feel ashamed. This particularly came out of the Clinton/MSNBC fiasco.
However, apparently that is not true: people are willing to vote for a woman over a black (or 1/2 black) candidate -- or at least so goes the apparent wisdom from the HRC camp who are constantly bringing up gender/race in the campaign.
Me? I'm still looking for the best person for the job. Regardless of hair color.
February 12, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still not convinced about Camp Clinton's intentions regarding the manipulation of race and gender issues to their advantage?
Check this from the AP today:
"We bring in voters who haven't given Democrats a chance" in the past, said Obama pollster Cornell Belcher, citing support from independents.
Mark Penn, Clinton's chief strategist, countered that she holds appeal for women voters and Hispanics. "Hillary Clinton has a coalition of voters well-suited to winning the general election," he said.
Obama's campaign says "voters" (of all races and genders) and Camp Hillary says "women" and "Hispanics".
February 12, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Residents of Pennsylvania, the ball is in your court. Do not let the Clinton camp get away with playing the race card once again. Vote for Obama and defend the honor and good name of your state. Rendell wants you to take you cue from the few addled bigots in your midst. You are better than them, and better than Ed Rendell.
February 12, 2008 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Scientific -- did you shoot out a letter to Obama for making essentially the same point in comments to the press? If you did could you post it so we could all see it. I won't join in your letter to Obama or to Rendell because I can't get myself worked up about a point so obvious that it is raised in the press on about a daily -- is white America ready to vote in a black president (or a woman for that matter)? As a black man I hope we are ready -- but I am not going to fall off of my horse because someone notes that some white voters might be bigoted.
February 12, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look closer at both comments and the context for each comment. You can choose not to get worked up if you want to, but don't tell me not to.
And no - I didn't fire one off to the Obama camp. His comment is different, in content, context and intent. You're not so naive as to believe that both comments are indistinguishable, are you?
It's obvious that there are some people who will not be voting for Obama because he's Black. It's one thing for the candidate himself to acknowledge this truth (on a national scale) while qualifying it by saying most of those are Republicans anyway, and would likely not vote for a Democrat. It's entirely another for the governor of PA, who has endorsed Obama's opponent and is campaigning with her, to state openly that some non-Black Pennsylvanians will not vote for Obama because of his color. If you can't understand that difference, I don't know what else to say to you.
February 12, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still not convinced about Camp Clinton's intentions regarding the manipulation of race and gender issues to their advantage?
Check this from the AP today:
Obama's campaign says "voters" (of all races and genders) and Camp Hillary says "women" and "Hispanics".
February 12, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rendell's an "automatic asshole". He's called that because that's what he is.
February 12, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you.
February 12, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Genghis:
Can you please repost your succinct and lucid comment on the difference when the HRC camp brings up race and when the Obama camp brings up race?
Apparently too many here missed it in an effort to scroll to the bottom to add their own insights.
Thanks!
February 12, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Take a look at how the white voters in Illinois supported Senator Obama in 2004, and on Super Tuesday.
Why is The Governor of Pennsylvania selling his own people so short.
February 12, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reading Rendell's full statement, it's also disingenuous to compare Obama to African-American Republican candidate for governor Lynn Swann. If Swann had been a Democrat and Rendell a Republican, Swann may well have won, not lost by 17 or 22 points.
"You've got conservative whites here, and I think there are some whites who are probably not ready to vote for an African-American candidate," he said bluntly. Our eyes only met briefly, perhaps because the governor wanted to spare the only black guy in the room from feeling self-conscious for backing an obvious loser. "I believe, looking at the returns in my election, that had Lynn Swann [2006 Republican gubernatorial candidate] been the identical candidate that he was --well-spoken [note: Mr. Rendell did not call the brother "articulate"], charismatic, good-looking -- but white instead of black, instead of winning by 22 points, I would have won by 17 or so."
February 12, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some one ask Mr. Rendell if he is actually claiming that everyone will vote for his Hillary just because of the color of her skin. If some people will not vote for her, then he is not making a cogent argument against voting for Hillary, but merely indicating that he wishes to validate and empower the KKK types in his state.
February 12, 2008 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some whites and blacks aren't ready for a woman candidate, so I guess Hillary is out too. Jeez.
February 12, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Twirling Fartknocker-- yep, still not convinced. And if you think that the mere fact that Penn noted that Clinton has a base coalition of women and Latino voters is proof of manipulation of race and gender issues, wow. As an Obama supporter I have found it easier to explain why I am for him, rather than try to stretch and torture Clinton into an evil racist. By the way, Obama, smartly is attempting to break Clinton's hold amng Latino voters by running Spanish language ads targeted toward Hispanics. I'm sure you don't count that as manipulating eace, and neither do I.
February 12, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
No offense, then but you probably wouldn't see it if it smacked you in the face. That's okay, lots of folks see racism or plays toward racism every day and don't even realize it. Some folks live in communities so white they forget there are other races.
Sargent can add you to his list of a half dozen writers who don't see it.
The Clinton camp knows exactly what it is doing. If they didn't want their surrogates mentioning race, they'd issue a stern memo and it would stop. Ergo, they support it because it continues on and on.
They also play up the gender card constantly.
As for Penn's comment, show me a comparable one from an Obama surrogate. It'd be tough to do.
Camp Clinton is all about playing identity politics. Obama's campaign is not. Ergo, Obama's campaign is the true campaign of change.
February 12, 2008 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Finally, I am not calling HRC personally racist. And maybe that's where you and people like Sargent get confused on this.
Her campaign is playing the race card. That's cynical but not necessarily racist.
They want to keep reminding people that racism exists in American and scare democrats out of voting for Obama in the primaries and caucuses. "Only lilly-white Hillary is safe for the general election," is the overall message of this race-card campaign of theirs.
February 12, 2008 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
liam: "Take a look at how the white voters in Illinois supported Senator Obama in 2004"
Uh, not the best argument for Obama, guy. Obama ran against ALAN KEYES.
February 12, 2008 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
After Obama had vanquished all the white opponents, and left the Illinois Republicans in such disarray that they lost their minds, and imported Keyes in the midst of the election.cycle.
The super Tuesday vote for Obama in Illinois validated his hold in Illinois politics.
February 12, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are there whites who wouldn't vote for Obama because he's black? Of course.
Are there blacks who don't vote for white candidates because they are white? Of course.
The problem with Rendell's comments is that he is trying to paint conservatives as racist. Go to any conservative political website and look who they are clammoring for as John McCain's running mate - two names high on that list are JC Watts and Michael Steele.
Obama will not get my vote, but it will have nothing to do with his race and everything to do with his misguided views on class warfare mongering:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjE1YjJlN2Q5ZmYxOTNlMDI2MmZmMDM2MGQ4MThjYmU=
infanticide:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18647&page=1
advocacy for surrender to Al Qaeda in Iraq:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0907/Obama_on_Petraeus.html
when we are routing them:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3346386.ece
and his other misguided liberal views:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article3346386.ece
February 12, 2008 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well..hmmm.........um..while "some" are not ready for a Black President a heck of a lot more are not ready for Hillary.
February 12, 2008 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Liam, it is true that Obama did well among white voters on super Tuesday in Illinois. But, and this may come as shock, I am willing to bet that some of the white people who voted against Obama were unwilling to vote for a black candidate. Because, and you might need to sit down for this, there are still some bigots in our society. Apparently Gov. Rendell and Sen. Obama must have both knocked you off of your feet when they suggested some white voters would not vote for a black candidate.
February 12, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great letter! It does insult his own constituents. And he should use his position to work against this kind of thing - not say - hey, that's just how it is.
February 12, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is getting ridiculous! He said "some". Who is going to argue with that? If you live in the US you know that to be true. It ain't just in PA.
Come on people -get a grip! I know "some" African Americans in Alabama that are likely to vote for Obama. What are you looking for if this is the NEWS?
February 12, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
...to recognize how much better we can be. Obama is representative of this because he sees it...
Perhaps Obama should first help his own supporters find their "better angel". If he can't do that, he's got nothing to sell me.
February 12, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Note to Sen. Obama:
From Gov. Rendell
Does this mean I don't get the VP spot?
February 12, 2008 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
So why is this even newsworthy? Can someone answer that question for me? Some people won't vote for some candidates for all kinds of reasons. Some Protestants still don't like voting for Catholics, etc... So what? It is by no means a newsworthy comment.
Rendell simply states the obvious. We all know that there are still some whites who are more comfortable being focused on outmoded racial concerns.
Since when did "Dog bites man" become news? What would be really newsworthy is what has been newsworthy throughout the primary season thus far, which is that most white people don't have a problem with voting for a black candidate. And of course, that's what lots and lots of us already knew too, but some folks are so cloistered and so wedded to the past they can't see the obvious.
Much ado about nothing if you ask me.
February 12, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
What Rendell said is right. But there is a reason why he said it:
Throw it in the mix and let people fight against each other. Divide and conquer.
I'm tired of these old politics. Let's move on. If Barack can seal TX, who cares about "some" people in PA.
February 12, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Obama's campaign says "voters" (of all races and genders) and Camp Hillary says "women" and "Hispanics"."
Exactly. The Clinton team is identity politics 24-7. Even her webpage has banners for "maing history" and "women for Hillary".
I don't see any talk of "blacks for Obama" on his website.
Is this just Hillary being out of touch and a throw back to the 60s when perhaps this bs mattered?
Or is it more of a cyncial racialized political strategy ... you know, how Obama's 2004 speech spoke of people "slicing and dicing" the electorate.
February 12, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way there are some people who still think the world is flat and lot of us who don't.
There are a lot things that "some" people will do, but a whole lot of us don't give a F**K
Old News, Old Politics- I think Americans have shown in Jan race card doesn't work and a nation which is older by a month now will only care less.
I'm not gonna say a word about the Hillary campaign strategy, because apparently they are still searching for one.
February 12, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Word from a friend of mine on the ground in maryland. A chardonay sipping "white" liberal precinct area had 97% turnout as of 10:30 a.m. this morning. Also, heard on the radio that turnout was heavy. Holy cow!!!!!
February 12, 2008 4:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Throw it in the mix and let people fight against each other. Divide and conquer.
That was pretty much the Obama strategy re the King/LBJ thing in SC.
February 12, 2008 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess not many "Some" people in Maryland so far...lol
February 12, 2008 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can someone tell me how is Obama a "black" candidate? What is "black" about him except the skin? Did he grow up in a black family? Was his Kenyan father around after he was two years old? Did he even have black relatives to visit before marriage? Did he grow up in a black neighborhood? Did he go to a predominantly black school? Did he go to a black church before he came to Chicago? Does he inherit anything "black" (culture, dialect, foods, costumes, etc.)? Are his political agendas "black"? There is a far larger part in Obama that transcends what Gov. Rendell's "conservatives of Pennsylvania" would not like about a black candidate unless one grew in a family from pre-1960's deep south culture that believed in racial supremacy and one still has nostalgia about it. Yes, if Obama were running on the platform of exclusive black people's agendas, one could disagree with him and look for an inclusive candidate, but the opposite is true. Obama symbolizes inclusion, and any fear-mongering like that of Rendell's, either in the name of race or gender or origin or nationality, is anti-American, and Pennsylvanian are smart people to reject such regressive appeal.
February 12, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Throw it in the mix and let people fight against each other."
Umm...no, Rendell didn't do that. TPM did by taking his non-controversial statement and making it the big headline. I'm sure it was embarrassing for TPM to learn that Obama had made virtually the same observation as Rendell. I'm sure Obama wasn't practicing the "old" politics of divide and conquer.
I wish the press and blogs were not so intent on manufacturing racism where it does not exist.
February 12, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Indiex- Obama will have one less vote this election. I think it'll be hard for him but he'll survive. Thank you.
February 12, 2008 4:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
kash79...glad to hear you've got 'er all wrapped up. Uh...you did know that the general election has no caucuses and it's winner-take-all, right? Good.
And, just curious...is this your first rodeo?
February 12, 2008 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I totally agree with scb, enough already. I have been pretty distressed by this constant meme. And really why don't we support women in the same way? This campaign is getting ridiculous. Move on and please discuss health care and economic issues instead of this nonsense.
February 12, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
SCB-I agree with you. It has a lot to do with the way the press has conducted in this election. But I was working on the ground in SC during their primary- in some of the poorest and the most deprived neighbhorhoods. They didn't deserve the mind-gaming. It was really sad.
To be clear, I'm not Black and I'm not from SC.
Let's forget the argument who said what- because I don't think I can convince anyone to change their opinions. But some of the most deprived people in this country in SC were hearing this: Stop dreaming about a black guy being president.
I had a lot of respect and admiration for President Clinton, and even now I admire the Mrs. Clinton strength- but I witnessed a game-play and from where I was witnessing- it was clear to me it was a intentional Clinton strategy.
The Idea was, let's loose SC by a landslide and brand him as a "black" candidate. Done and dusted. Well it seems this nation has thankfully moved beyond such over simplification.
Again it's my opinion from what I saw. I can never support Clintons again.
February 12, 2008 4:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
This proves conclusively that you do not have to be very bright in order to be elected governor.
February 12, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
It was not James Carville who originally said that Pennsylvania is "Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and a whole lot of Alabama in between"--It was a Klu Klux Klan recruiter.
I live up here in the T, and it is hard to imagine a more culturally backward place. There's as much or more racism and xenophobia here as in the south. The local paper describes black people as "from Philadelphia." Our local Democratic leader has said the same thing to me as Rendell blurted out.
Having said all that: this is definitely coming from Hillary supporters, and is, I think, being uttered to everyone from the Hillary camp. It's disgusting in that it is being raised by fellow Democrats about the opposing candidate. I'm sickened by the entire thing, and am going to put a call in to Rendell about it.
February 12, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
joanbeach4 --
After you call Rendell's office you might want to put in a call to Obama, since he said essentially the same thing.
February 12, 2008 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
The big diference between Obama saying it and Rendell saying it, is that Obama was responding to the question of his race being an obstacle. He did not volunteer this information.
He also made a point of neutralizing the idea of someone not voting for him because he is black, by adding that some others would vote for him because he was black. He concluded by showing all Americans respect by saying that for most, his race would not be an issue at all.
He can't deny that there are people in America that would not vote for him because of race, but his desire was to argue for Americans being more sophisticated than that.
Rendell's aim was to argue for Pennsylvanians being less sophisticated - and he volunteered the bloody information.
February 12, 2008 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am sure someone said this better so I will try to say it simpler.
Any analyst or commenter that uses racial demographics to suggest that some upcoming state is 'favorable' to Obama is making an implicit racial claim, one openly admitted by Obama himself. Some people will vote for him because he is black, some people will vote against him because he is black. Otherwise why bring up race at all? Certain people will take their demographics of the upcoming state out to a tenth of a percentage point, take percentages of the actual vote from past votes and make a prediction based on that. If it comes true then they will present it as evidence of the validity of their voting model. Unless your name is Clinton where any mention of race is just an attempt to derail a color blind race. It seems odd in the extreme to call other people vile names in the absence of any personal history that would support that on the basis of a legitimate (if badly timed) political analysis.
Knowing what we know now about black turnout and voting this cycle we can see that Obama is consistently drawing support at a 5 to 1 ratio, consistently scoring in the low 80's among AA. If South Carolina was tonight rather than a couple of weeks ago supporters and critics of Obama alike would project that he would carry the state by drawing much the same percentage of black voters there that he did in Georgia. And the day after the election various pundits, commenters, and supporters would be patting themselves on the backs for correctly projecting this particular demographic. Exactly nobody would be accusing Wolf Blitzer and his team of injecting race into the campaign, anymore that they would be accused of injecting ageism by having predicted a strong youth vote.
By any objective analysis of the results out of Carolina, followed by a series of other victories in the Sourth, shows that he won because blacks voted 5 to 1 for him. This is not to say that his color was the only reason blacks voted for him, but it is just math to suggest that if you get 80% of one half of the electorate and 26% of the other, you will get 52% or so of the total. To point out that Jesse Jackson drew similar margins is simply to point out an interesting correlation that might lead towards a testable conclusion. To say that Obama won because he drew 85% of the black vote is a fact, to go from there to impute the basest motives on the part of Bill and the Clinton campaign is just another example of the application of Clinton Rules, which in practice are 180 degrees turned from IOKIYAAR. For some people no matter what the Clintons do it is never OK.
I am about ready to concede this one to Obama just because I don't think the Clintons will ever get a fair shake, and that is from our side. I was particularly disturbed to see otherwise sensible people like Colbert King fall right into this trap. The entire MSM and much of the blogsosphere took a valid, if something self-serving, piece of political analysis and turned it into a hate crime. In the words of Mal from Silverado "That ain't right".
February 12, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
He conveniently left out the part about how those people vote Republican anyway.
February 12, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you go to the Obama web-site and click on the People Tab you will be presented with a series of webpages broken down by identity group.
African Americans for Obama
http://africanamericans.barackobama.com/page/content/afamhome
Generation Obama
http://go.barackobama.com/page/content/gohomepage
Latinos for Obama
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/latinoshome/
Each page carefully custom crafted to appeal to the particular group. There is exactly zero wrong with that. The reason you don't see a 'Blacks for Obama' sign is that it would be sort of overkill, and explicitly undercut the public message that he is running a post racial campaign. Because in the context of the more than a dozen 'X for Obama' groups the following is just crap.
"Camp Clinton is all about playing identity politics. Obama's campaign is not"
Bullshit, what part of 'Generational Change' don't people understand? It's all identity politics, it is just when you happen to be in the pander pool you don't see it that way. Obama is rather specifically running on an Anti-Boomer platform, the 'Change' he wants is away from us. And supporters may fully believe now is their time. Just don't kid yourself that that is not playing identity politics all of its own.
February 12, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wait, Obama's BLACK?!
February 12, 2008 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the thoughtful post Bruce Webb. Sadly, for those who seem to need to hate Hillary in order to keep up their support of Barak, no amount of reason is going to disuade them from vomiting out charges of racism. The Atlantic Monthly's Clive Crook, a strong Obama supporter, noted that the "race card" allegations are a creation of the press.
http://clivecrook.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/01/how_the_press_played_the_race.php
I think Obama will be an exceptional president, and I hope with everything that I have that he wins. But I don't need to manufacture Hillary Clinton into a racist in order to get myself excited for Obama.
February 12, 2008 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bruce Webb...very nicely stated. If you find, as a campaign, that facts are some sort of enemy, then you need to question what your campaign is about.
February 12, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
In reference to the Governors’ remark in a Pittsburg newspaper that some White people in Pennsylvania will not vote for Obama is disturbing and divisive. He needs to pay closer attention to the polling results. Obama has won in some of the "Whitest" states in the Union. I understand there are some narrow minded Whites in Pennsylvania but they exist everywhere and this common knowledge. With all due respect Mr. Governor it wasn't necessary for you to make a public statement like this.
Respectfully Submitted,
February 13, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, TPM, but you are waaaaaaay off on this one.
If the lady on the Golf Channel doesn't get a pass for her remarks about Tiger Woods, then Rendell doesn't get a pass either. Rendell is a politician from a party that constantly espouses their racial sensitivity. He deserves to be getting slammed for this kind of race baiting.
February 13, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
After hearing the context, I would have to agree that Rendell was being honest. Anyone who doesn't think there are whites who would not vote for a black candidate is crazy. Why shouldn't someone be able to say it? Unless we all start talking honestly about race, we're going to live with a lot of tension. Barrack Obama has pretty much acknowledged the same thing: some white people won't vote for him. Fine. He can win without those "some" because there are more who will.
February 13, 2008 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
David Kurtz now writes that PA Governor Rendell "Probably Deserves a Pass."
I say emphatically that he does NOT!!
February 13, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gov. Rendell is a bloated gaffe machine. He errors so often that folks find him especially "authentic". How pathetic.
March 18, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
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November 15, 2008 2:19 AM | Reply | Permalink