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Quinnipiac: Hillary Up Only Six Points In Pennsylvania

The new Quinnipiac poll in Pennsylvania shows that Hillary Clinton has lost her once-mighty lead over Barack Obama, and now only six points separate them for this April 22 race. Here are the numbers, compared to the previous poll from just two weeks ago:

Clinton 49% (-3)
Obama 43% (+7)

From the internals: Hillary leads 53%-39% among women, while Obama is ahead 50%-43% among men. Hillary's lead among white men is at 48%-45%, and 61%-31% among white women.

Hillary's roadmap to the nomination includes wins in Texas and Ohio, followed by a big Pennsylvania win seven weeks later. But these polls shows that Pennsylvania — the last big Northeastern state not to have voted — could suddenly be a tough race by itself.


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That small lead will disappear before you know it.

Time to leave Hillary, bye bye.

There are myriad reasons that Sen. Clinton has done rather poorly of late, not all of it the fault of her campaign. No one can honestly say the coverage of her has been fair. Every mistake magnified and all references to her faults in gender specific terms. It seems to have been the usual Washington insider game, the villagers are restless. What has disturbed me the most about this campaign is the amount of vitriol heaped on Sen. Clinton from many in the blogosphere, like her or not she isn't the devil as some would have it. I believe the Obama love is misplaced. He is not really very progressive (he did afterall support Joe Lieberman) and his stance on Social Security needs serious scrutiny. I hope for all our sakes "the skies open up, the light shines down and the celestial choirs sing" cause we're going to need all this harmony.

I'll take the bait.

"Every mistake magnified and all references to her faults in gender specific terms."

Can you give me some of these examples where the media has been, outright, sexist? Aside from a skit on SNL.

"He is not really very progressive (he did afterall support Joe Lieberman) and his stance on Social Security needs serious scrutiny."

You asked for it (serious scrutiny). Please note that HRC supported Lieberman AT THE SAME TIME (prior to his primary defeat to Lamont). Once Lamont was endorsed after the primary, HRC AND Obama switched their support to Lamont. You ought to stop being so disingenuous with your comments.

As for "Serious scrutiny" of Obama's position on Social Security, he says it is a system that will ultimately run out of cash around 2040. In order to solve that problem, he proposes to lift the current cap on Social Security taxes (which stands right around $102k). This means that anyone making over $102k pays SS taxes only on their first $102k made.

This lifting of the cap seems like a pretty progressive idea to me.

Splinter, instead of trolling with disingenuous information and poorly worded concerns, why don't you just find your own mind and do a little leg work to answer your own "questions." Trust me, the internet is full of information that will help you think for yourself.

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I agree with wwjb - her lead is going to disappear over the next week with her debate performance last night. She had some serious blunders in the first half, and in the second half (as Genghis and I and others have commented) she looked completely flat and absolutely lifeless - the wind was completely knocked out of her. The tax return thing was a big problem for her. She looked off balance, and she almost looked like she was lying about it - there was a curious look on her face (the look my daughter gets when she's lying to me!) Anyway, after last night I truly believe there's a possibility that he's going to sweep next Tuesday (with the possible exception of Rhode Island). It will then truly be over for her - there's no way she's going to hold out until April (Pennsylvania). She won't have the money or the support to do so.

Gosh, I am really regretting my troubles with MSNBC.com's internet broadcast last night. Everyone keeps talking about the look on her face at that point. All I could get was the audio, because the video feed was so far out of sync that I just minimized that window and listened while reading the comments on this blog. Now I wonder what I was missing by not being able to see the coverage, only hear it.

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I came away from last night's debate wishing I'd taped it. They had one moment where they switched camera angles and you had Obama speaking (from a 3/4 angle to another camera) with Hillary's head-on reaction shot in the frame. She looked like she had true hatred in her heart. It was actually chilling.

MSNBC has it on their web site now, so you can re-watch it in its entirety. I had the same problem last night and ended up listening to it via online radio.

Will the last one out of Clinton campaign HQ please turn off the lights?

... why are poll results from PA even trumpeted? The primary isn't for nearly TWO months, is there any more irrelevant statistic than how the two of them are doing in an election that isn't til the end of April?

HRC trumpeted poll numbers in Ohio and Texas just after SUper Tuesday. Back then she had a double digit lead. Now look where she stands.

I live in Pennsylvania and we haven't even gotten started campaigning here yet--I'm going to my first volunteers for Obama meeting tonight! (I might add that I'm a middle-aged white woman...) Oh, I was also one of the million donors, the first time I've ever given money to any candidate.

If Dandy Don Meredith frequented TPM Election Central he'd be singing:

"Turn out the lights, the party's over..."

How things go Tuesday will largely determine how things go in Pennsylvania come April. So if I may return to Texas for a moment, why in blazes are people so confident that Obama will win there? I hear it spoken of as a virtual fait accompli. But the SurveyUSA Texas poll released night-before-last shows that the 25% who have already voted in Texas have gone for Hillary 51% to 46%. Someone in here said that this reflects only the "early" voting and is therefore nothing to be concerned about given other positive news for Obama. But is that how SurveyUSA explains Hillary's first-quarter win? The data-gathering for the poll started Saturday, and the early voting started just three days before that. I'm assuming that the data for the early voting is distributed over the entire three days and not concentrated in, say, the first day. In other words, Hillary's win in the "early" vote doesn't sound so early to me, but something quite current. I'm not good at interpreting polls - in fact I'm rotten at it - so would someone explain to me all the confidence I'm hearing about Obama taking Texas? How much does he have to win of the remaining three-quarters of the vote in order to overcome Clinton's upfront lead of 5% in the first quarter? And given that pretty much all the other polling in Texas shows the race to be a dead heat, is it plausible, obvious, likely (you choose the word) that he'll be able to make up the difference in time? Please help me think through this to a more optimistic frame of mind.

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you neglected to mention that the m.o.e. on that early voting was a whopping 7.5%, which essentially nullifies any claim to a 5% lead.

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The structure of the way Texas does things is also significant (and complex). I don't want to botch this, but the "thumbnail" version of things is two-fold:

1) Texas has a "prima-caucus" (which the HRC campaign only discovered about three weeks ago, apparently). As clear as I understand it, they literally have a night caucus event, from which some of their delegates are selected, after the standard, Polls open at ________ primary. Because the Obama Campaign was aware of this, there is some thought that they have an organizational head start in terms of preparing for the caucus part (which pro-Clinton CW seems to suggest benefits him and/or hurts her).

2) Texas has apportionment rules which seem to favor Obama in terms of his support being in districts with more alloted delegates. Essentially, delegates are assigned to districts based upon their voting record in 2004. Thus, districts with a higher turnout for Kerry are alloted more relative punch than districst where Dem turnout was lower. He's running strong in Austin, for example. That's where University of Texas is located and it's the "liberal and political" state capital. I think that district gets 8 delegates.

Again, I'm thumbnailing this. I make no claims that I'm some Texas insider or anything. I've spent less than a week there. I'm just giving my layman's impression of the coverage I've been studying while I should've been, ahem, working and stuff. If someone can come in and make this explanation more clear or definitive than I have, please do...

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ondioline and SCmadden, you just made me waste the last fifteen minutes of my life.

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We were all wasting time together for a good cause...

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Blue Skies, I agree that the Texas Primary is going to be a close call. I think a lot of people acknowledge that. However, confidence for Obama comes in three ways:

(1) Obama is trending up in Texas, and if recent history is any predictor, this means that by next Tuesday he will be the majority pick.

(2) Even if Obama loses the popular vote in the Texas primaries, he will walk away with more delegates because of the way the districts are gerrymandered. I wish I had a link for you, but I've seen the detailed precinct-by-precinct analysis that shows that more delegates are allotted to Obama-friendly districts, and that the ones favored by Clinton are in districts with even numbers of delegates, meaning anything less than a twenty point spread will result in equal distributions of delegates for both.

(3) Even if Obama loses in the primary, he wins in the Texas caucus that starts later that evening and awards a third of the delegates.

Sure, it would be great if Obama won the popular vote, and I think he may. But Obama's got Texas sewn up where it matters--in delegates.

Actually, I didn't know the MoE for the "early" vote. And your right, it's an important stat to know. Still:

1) The "early" voting wasn't early, having taken place after the Obama acceleration was well under way.

And

2) MoE can cut in either direction; maybe Hillary won by more than 5%.

Thanks for your response, Lonesomebot! Anyone else care to weigh in?

Hillary has several problems in Texas.

Number one problem: The areas she is expected to do well in (hispanic areas), have less delegates than the areas Barack is expected to do well in. This is because in Texas, delegates are awarded from past election turnouts, and that favors African-American districts over Hispanic ones.

(it will be interesting to see how the delegate numbers change after this election).

Problem 2: Obama does well in caucuses. 67 delegates will be decided by the caucus.

Problem 3: Even if Hillary wins the delegate count (unlikely) in the Primary, she will have to win by a large number to actually overtake Obama. This will not happen, because most districts in Texas have 4 delegates, you have to win over 60% of the vote in order to Net Delegates. (a 2-2 splits vs 3-1). I don't think anyone is predicting Clinton will win 60% of the vote across the majority of Texas districts.

Most experts believe this race is already over. Only the media and Clinton's name is keeping her in the race at all.

This site as more detailed information about the whole process.

It is biased towards Obama, for the record.

http://www.burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4937

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Sorry for the duplicate content y'all. I just saw SCMadden's more detailed explanation.

My feeling is that if Obama doesn't win the popular vote in at least two of Tuesday's contests (TX and VT being the most likely), Hillary will be able to raise more money, continue on into PA, and have a good chance of winning there as well. In that event, even if Obama manages to hold Hillary at bay in the delegate count, he will arrive at the convention in a disheveled state, with a cloud of dubiety hanging over him. In other words, there will be a knock-down and drag-out fight in Denver which will bode ill for the general election. Obama has to win at least TX and VT outright and keep it close in OH in order to ease Hillary out of the race soon. A slight delegate gain won't affect the psychology of the race, which is media drive as well all know. And no one has convinced me yet that Hillary won't actually win Texas. That would give her the upper hand with the Supers and maybe the inside track to the nomination. I did say maybe.

I hope someone will soon show me that I'm a complete fool as a political prognosticator. I promise I'll sit in a corner with a cone hat on my head and giggle gleefully for the remainder of this election.

Blue Sky:

It's a crazy scenario. Down in delegates, Hillary goes to the Convention with slight popular vote wins in the remaining states.

She then gets the delegates for Florida and Michigan to count, and is able to convince a majority of the Superdelegates to overide the popular delegate vote count.

That's the ONLY way Hillary has a chance to win. You tell me how likely you think that is.

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I wouldn't say "complete fool," but I don't think you're making an accurate assessment of the trends and forces at play in this race so far...

The media can only drive this racecar so far... The facts are still what what we have for pavement. Delegates matter. Hillary has been winning relatively close races (and do you remember the last one?) in blue states. Barack has been absolutely pasting her in the contests he's won. 60-40 splits and higher in many of the most recent states. He's picking up more delegates in the primaries and caucuses that "don't matter" to Hillary (but count toward 2,025) than she is in the Blue states that he will win in the general election. The trend has been consistent. She has a big lead until his ground game gets going and he starts holding rallies and connecting with voters. Halfway between the first poll and election day, her lead is cut in half. On election day, we all watch the numbers come in and she ends up giving a non-concession speech.

What should he be worried about? What should you be worried about? The only thing that stands between Barack Obama and the Democratic Nomination for President of the United States is his supporters losing focus, his organizers on the ground lighting the victory cigar too early, low voter turnout. We haven't seen any evidence of that. We haven't seen any evidence of "message slippage" in the Obama campaign. So far, the campaigns have matched the demeanor of the candidates.

That leads me to my next question, when have you seen Barack Obama "in a disheveled state"? Part of what makes him such a great candidate is that he is so measured and has such a deft touch for when to be serious, when to be foreceful, when to be playful, when to be dismissive, etc. He doesn't seem to do "disheveled". HRC and her surrogates have been all over the track in recent weeks because the fact of the matter is: It's difficult to pin something on the guy. He doesn't make the "Peyton Manning" face when something isn't going his way. He seems to know that as long as the ball is in play, the players usually dictate the action more than the refs do.

A few weeks ago, the narrative was: Hillary is doing fine. It's a dead heat. Then the numbers started getting crunched after the Potomac Primaries and the reality changed. The narrative became: Hillary has to win TX, OH, & PA. The Clinton campaign was saying that. Bill even said it. But the truth is, as others have pointed out, she needs blowout wins. And she doesn't seem to be capable of a blowout win. She's not the candidate for it. Her campaign isn't organized or disciplined enough to produce it. Her message isn't clear and convincing enough to enable it. Her leadership hasn't been strong enough to ensure it. I wasn't trying to write a post-mortem, but let's be honest: When the time comes, it's gonna sound a lot like that.

MOE is 3.8% for Survey USA Texas polls. According to their poll, 25% of their likely voters have actually voted. Of this 25%, 51% voted for Clinton and 46% voted for Obama. There are still 75% of likely voters who have not voted--whether early or not. Of this 75%, 43% favor Clinton and 50% favor Obama.

If I've done the math correctly, this walks back to a primary result of 49% Obama and 45% Clinton.

It doesn't address where the delegates are--and apparently where Clinton will be strong there are less delegates because of poorer past turnout. It also doesn't address the impact of the caucus.

So far, however, it looks like Obama is ahead in Texas.

I have to question the basis for the assumption people seem to have that Obama will do better in the Texas Caucus than the Primary there.

I never bought the Clinton claim that caucuses somehow favor Obama, and I don't really see a reason why he should do better in one half of the "Texas Two Step" than in the other.

The theory is, Obama supporters are more dedicated than Clinton supporters. Or the Obama campaign is better organized for caucuses than Hillary's. Or, it could be as Hillary suggests: only the elite rich can take a night off and caucus, so her poor base can't do it.

Whatever the reason, this election Obama has cleaned up in Caucus states. Only Nevada caucus went for Hillary.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_02/013095.php


To be very fair, Clinton also took the caucus in American Samoa.

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All snark aside, perhaps you're right. I don't totally buy the claim because I haven't seen hard evidence for it that isn't undermined by HRC's poor attempts at campaigning. I don't buy the claim because it is coming from the same people who fly out of states while votes are being cast and whose planes touch down in states other than the next one being contested. But I've also never bought the argument that he can't win both elements of the prima-caucus. And as I noted above, I don't buy the argument that she can beat him by anything approaching 10% in any of the remaining states, much less getting some 60-65% of the vote total...

Cube3u, thank you for that analysis! That's the kind of detail I've been fishing for - and it's encouraging...somewhat.

Ohioguy, I agree with you about the TX caucus situation. Given the stakes, I can't believe the Clinton people haven't learned their lesson by now and aren't going to show up en mass on caucus night. It's going to be a regular stampede! I can hear Wednesday morning hollering and backbiting now! Yep, I expect the caucuses will be close, too.

To be clear, I don't think Obama will win the Caucus by a landslide. It will be close. But, I do expect him to win. The Obama Campaign has been pushing the Texas Two-Step since day one...

The sad thing is, because it's been so long since Texas has mattered, many Democrats here didn't even know we had a caucus! So, it's been a learning experience.

I can accept that caucuses reward enthusiastic voters. To the extent that this is the case, the process probably magnified the effect of Obama's harder campaigning in most caucus states. With both candidates going all out in Texas, I suspect this won't be the case.

Actually I rather hope the results of the Primary and the Caucus are similar, because divergence will give some truth to the Clinton arguments that the caucus process is flawed.

Or maybe the Primary system is flawed, and the Caucus system is better?

It's an interesting point. But while I expect some deviance from the primary to the caucus (because not everyone who votes will caucus), I suspect they will not be radically different. (ie, 10% max?)

I'm amazed no one's noticed ... that this is GREAT NEWS!!1!! for HILLARY!!!1!1!!

I'm certainly no polling expert, so what I am about to say may make me appear to be a fool, a charlatan, or both. I think the fact that SUSA's latest poll has Clinton up by 5% in early voting is a product of SUSA's likely voter screen, and that, in fact, it portends a huge Obama advantage in early voting. There have been a number of reports (I unfortunately do not have a link handy) that early turn-out in Texas has been mind-blowing, sometimes exceeding 2004 by a factor of ten. The turn-out differential is biggest in areas that are expected to go heavily for Obama. However, I don't think SUSA's polling model likely takes this increased turn-out into account, but instead uses a likely voter model based in part on previous voting patterns. In other words, there are likely a ton of early Obama voters not being factored in by SUSA. For this reason, I fully expect Obama to out-perform the polls when it comes to early voting in Texas.

Can you or someone else enlighten us further about the Survey USA methodology and why it might be wrong? How do you do a poll of early voters, anyway?

Like you, I also heard the stories about strong early turnout in Obama-leaning districts and was surprised to hear these poll results.

Here's one recent explanation of their methodology:

26.02.2008

A Peek at SurveyUSA's Methodology

After the California primary, I mentioned that what set SurveyUSA apart from all the polls (and prognosticators) predicting a better Obama showing was that SurveyUSA had a great likely voter screen that foresaw the huge surge in Latino turnout. Mark Blumenthal over at pollster.com has some information on how it works (click through for more details):

SurveyUSA's approach to likely voter modeling is comparable to that used by Iowa's Ann Selzer, in that they do not make arbitrary assumptions about the demographic composition of the likely electorate. As SurveyUSA's Jay Leve explains, they "weight the overall universe of Texas adults to U.S. census" demographic estimates, then they select "likely voters" based on screen questions and allow their demographics to "fall where they may." So some of the demographic variation from survey to survey is random, but large and statistically statistically significant variation should reflect real changes in the relative enthusiasm of voters.

But arbitrary assumptions are what make the process so much fun! Anyway, it's anybody's guess whether this method will work as well in Texas as it did in California, but it results in a 49–45 Obama lead, thanks in large part to exceptionally high predicted black turnout and relatively lower Latino turnout (although, perhaps surprisingly, Obama does slightly better among Latinos than he does among whites).

--Josh Patashnik

You're correct, Hillary WON'T have money unless her supporters, and I am one, give.

Please folks, just 10 dollars apiece will be a BIG help.

www.hillaryclinton.com

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