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Obama To McCain: There Was No Al Qaeda In Iraq Before Your War

So Obama hit back at McCain's mockery of him over Al Qaeda Iraq by saying what we'd hoped he'd say:

"I have some news for John McCain," Obama said, according to The Politico. "There was no Al Qaeda in Iraq until George Bush and John McCain" started their war.

That will likely become a stock message for Obama. He also uncorked this:

"John McCain may like to say he wants to follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of Hell, but so far all he’s done is follow George Bush into a misguided war in Iraq."

The Obama campaign has been arguing that he can draw a sharper contrast with McCain than Hillary can because of her support for the war. Such high-profile skirmishes over Iraq with McCain can only help Obama, because they do drive this point home while signaling to Dems that the GOP, at least, views his nomination as a foregone conclusion.


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Obama is being so silly. What's his plan? Cut and run. He's a Hollywood actor and talker, nothing more. He's like George Clooney running for President.

I LOVED Obama in Ocean's 11.

Or was that Don Cheadle?

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Good luck with your nominee McCain and his embrace of the war - that's a great strategy for winning the election!

Maybe Mark Penn will join McCain campaign after Hillary drops out? He'd be a lot of help in creating a strategy to beat Obama.

Take him, please.

McCain's chief advisor works Mark Penn, so he's already got that base covered.

You have the wrong Hollywood actor. Clooney is a great actor, and he is not running for President.

A B- Movie actor named Ronald Reagan did become President. I bet you just loved that mediocre actor.

Speaking of Clooney - great piece on him in the current TIME.

I thought you usually posted under the alias of "idiotic". Must be adopting a new persona for the general election.

not me, but I will say that...


...THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!

The genius is in the simplicity.

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And the repitition. And the persistence. And the timing. And the perfect "idiotic"-ness of it.

Agreed. I think we need to start a fan club.

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I take it you are still angry over the fact that this no good beat you in the election for president of the Harvard Law Review? or perhaps you did not get into Harvard Law School and nevert quite got over that?

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You mean like Reagan?

I would like to note that I would also vote for George Clooney over Hillary or McCain.

Sexy.

Right, I mean, it's one thing to bring change to Washington, another to bring sheer hotness.

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I third that.

All those other world leaders will absolutely swoon for Clooney

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Without a doubt, this is a sign of sure victory in November for the Dems is Obama is the nominee. I can't believe that McCain wants to make Iraq the central issue because that means he has to embrace Bush and this quagmire.

With Clinton as the nominee, we'll be hearing a lot of her Senate floor speech in support fo the war authorization bill in which she spewed the neo-con talking points (the old/new line from the GOP will be "she was for it before she was against it")

Yowsa, this is a new sight - a democratic senator with enough of a backbone to stand up to a republican barb. Well played, Mr Obama. Perhaps you might want to offer some classes for your democratic colleagues in the senate?

"Obama is being so silly."

The only people who wouldn't like Obama's swift response have to be McCain supporters - which makes your commentary both silly and clumsily hamfisted.

Didn't Al Gore already make Clooney Chief Justice?
FYI
Obama response video up on Halperin's The Page.

Allow me to ask a Russert hypothetical.

What happens if w ends combat missions in Iraq to take Iraq out of this election?

Actually Steve, that is a great attack line:

"John McCain may like to say he wants to follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of Hell, but so far all he’s done is follow George Bush into a misguided war in Iraq."

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Then the issue becomes McCain's endorsement of a preemptive war in Iran.

Well, that issue comes up regardless. Point being, this is not a single-issue election, unless it's that McCain's on the losing side of every single issue.

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[T]his is not a single-issue election, unless it's that McCain's on the losing side of every single issue.

You need to copyright that quote. It's pure gold.

Then McCain is screwed...he doesn't know jackshit about domestic policy!

You tell me what else McCain plans to run on? Are there domestic policies and issues that McCain can actually talk about without tripping over his lack of knowledge? What are they?

McCain,

Please run on staying in Iraq.

Thank you so very much,
Hoost

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Video of the remarks over at The Page.

I gotta say, it's going to be a relief to focus the debate on the Republicans. The Democrat on Democrat action has been stressful for a while now, so it's going to feel really good to see all the Democratic firepower train in on the Republicans.

Obama seems to be freed as well. In that video, he was going after McCain with much more gusto and enthusiasm than I've seen him do with Clinton.

I know Greg.

There goes my argument that he will not fight back.

Score one for Obama.

Hey...classy. Thanks.

I gotta say I've been waiting for eight years for a Dem to not allow the Republicans to control the narrative, to take their talking points and play offense instead of defense. And about four times out of five, Obama does just this. It's refreshing.

One moment where HRC really lost my support was in '06, when Kerry's "botched joke" came up and she criticized him. Now, granted, that was probably more about driving a nail into the coffin of Kerry's political ambitions, to which I say, bravo--but nonetheless it was a perfect opportunity to turn the narrative on its head, and the fact that she and few others embraced it and used it to distance themselves from their fellow Dem drove me up the wall.

It's a refreshing response that is not defensive and is quite clear and concise. McCain better find another strategy, because Iraq will (as he predicted) cost him the election.

*Sigh* That's my Barack ;)

Just heard something about Obama's HQ in Houston being broken into and vandalized. Anyone heard of that?

Here is where the Republican Iraq War Mongers get caught in a net of their own making.

McCain is talking about keeping US Troops in Iraq for up to a hundred years, while at the same time, the Bush Administration is urging Turkey to withdraw all their Troops from Northern Iraq within a very short period of time.

How about that folks. The Republican War Mongers want to stay in Iraq for ever, but demand that Turkey stop pursuing the Kurdish terrorists that have attacked Turkey over and over. The Bush Admn. has label that Kurdish group as Terrorists, but is demanding that Turkey not go after them, while at the same time claiming that we must stay in Iraq because there are terrorists there.

John McCain

WELCOME TO HELL

Joe Lieberman, welcome to Hell.

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Boy, the more I see and hear this man, the more impressed I am with both him and his campaign team. Disclaimer: some people may think I'm way over the top here, but I'll say it anyway. He seems to be able to synthesize the calm, cool, rational aspects of JFK with the fire and passion of RFK. He's not afraid to fight, and he does it in such a way as to completely neutralize the oppositions attacks. His motto seems to be "bring 'em on"! I'm 48 years old and I don't think I've seen a Democrat like this, at least since I was able to vote. I don't even remember Bill Clinton as being this good. I am really looking forward to the Obama/McCain debates - he's going to get under McCain's skin, especially if he was as cool and composed as he was last night.

Carol,

People forget that Bill Clinton did not have to go one on one with a Republican candidate. Ross Perot put Bill Clinton in the White House.

Correction to the quote Greg:

Change 'misguided' to 'messianic'.
I think it makes a difference.

No, if you look at the video, misguided is clearly the word he used.

Folks, I seriously think this is an historic moment.

If Obama continues with this sort of concise, catchy, yet legitimate comeback, he'll win by a landslide. He doesn't even need to come up with too many of them. Today's remarks can be retailed effectively till they become part of the atmosphere of debate and the givens of people's mental defense against the warfare state.

With this kind of defense, Obama doesn't even need to have an armory full of attack weapons. Good, targeted use of a relative few of the latter will suffice.

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Perhaps his fellow Congresspeople will take the hint that this is the way to respond to Republican threats and attacks???? Maybe he will give them all a little backbone the way Ned Lamont did in 2006!

I can dream, can't I? ;)

You know what? I take it back. That response is even hotter than Clooney.

There, I said it. And I stand by my statement.

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Anneeliz, you're too much! LOL! :)

Judgment, lest we forget. We are constantly told that this is a cult, beatlemania, that the candidates are equally competent, but these words show that there is an unequaled clear understanding of American foreign policy reality, unmeasured by some focus group.

This is no kumbaya, peace movement campaign. President Obama will defend this nation against real enemies, regardless of the interests of Halliburton.

This Primary season is Over...

Congressman Lewis formally endorses Obama:

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that John Lewis is really, truly endorsing Barack Obama, and the piece quotes Lewis:

"Something's happening in America, something some of us did not see coming," Lewis said. "Barack Obama has tapped into something that is extraordinary.

[snip]
In an interview in his congressional office, Lewis said the decision to switch his support was a difficult one, a choice between a longtime friend and a little-known black man.

"I did it because I felt I had to support Mrs. Clinton because of our friendship," Lewis said. "But also I thought she was ready to lead. Lewis had placed a called to Clinton's office Wednesday morning but hadn't heard back from her. He also had a Please-Return-The-Call message of his own from Obama. By midday, he still hadn't returned it.

"It's been a long, hard and difficult struggle to come to where I am now," Lewis said.

Good news. Here's looking forward to more such stories over the coming days.

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And Obama picked up another endorsement today (Dorgan). Looks like her campaign's plea to hold off endorsing is not working...and switching endorsements is even worse than holding an endorsement off because you're still undecided. I think the super-delegates are starting to ignore her and marginalize her as irrelevant. It will be very interesting to see what happens in the next few days as we get closer to March 4.

I am not sure that it is quite fair to say that her plea is not working. I expect that the plea was made today in response to these movements, not as a pre-emption of them. In other words, she knew that these two were going to move today and made the plea, not to stop them, but rather to stop anyone who might get caught up in the rush and join Lewis and Dorgan. We will not know if the plea worked or not for a couple of days. If Lewis' defection triggers a rash of similar defections, then the plea was all for nought. If the defections stop with Lewis, then I think that it is fair to say that the plea (and the attendant private phone calls to the same effect) was effective.

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THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!

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That was clearly fake. Not enough exclamation marks.

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But, as some Clinton folks said in NY Mag, McCain is going to eat Obama for lunch! He's quaking in his boots!

They could even get the Soggy Bottom Boys to warm up the crowds at their campaign rallies.

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Phenomenal

OMG. Our President is a hottie!

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Maybe this will convince John Edwards that he's tough enough? Come on, John, endorse already! Not that it will make much of a difference now but it would be nice nonetheless.

Greg,

That's terrific that he answered exactly as you hoped he would. By this little blog entry one could surmise that he may have indeed answered because of tpm's influence. Is that true? I don't know for certain, but I highly highly doubt it.

I doubt this because tpm seems to be nothing more than an internet outlet for the Clinton campaign and mainstream media narrative. The narrative that simplifies the election into nonsensical sound bytes, men vs women vs blacks vs blue collar, etc, when the reality of an election and the state of American politics is highly complex and mostly tied to dinero, amero, mula, yes the DOLLAR, and the plan to dismantle the United States and plunge into into a European style union with Canada and Mexico.

Through the campaign, you've taken the mainstream narrative seriously, no matter how ridiculous it's become. From the inevitability, to the plagairism and "dressed photo," this kind of rubbish is nothing more than a distraction to mask what the election is really about: money, the media, the corporations, the drug companies, the insurance companies, trade agreements, the war, the environment, and plans to GO GREEN, and the North American Union.

Now, that it's really impossible to spin the Democratic primary to Hilary, you'll discount Obama by letting us know that he answered "as you hoped he would." You hold a position of authority over his campaign? One would think so by your writing.

Obama represents an end to the drive by, propaganda media. He represents an end to people (whiney little squirrels imo) like Greg Sargeant having a national stage to spout this crap and pass it off as real reporting.

In an Obama world, thoughtful, truthful reporting will return, the United States will begin the wake up to the reality of the centralization of power that's gone on, and western civilzation will arc further towards true freedom and prosperity.

Nice name. The Secret Service will stop by to have a chat with you shortly.

Why do you use that name. I find it creepy, giving what happened to the Kennedys, and MLK. Would you please consider altering it to something less provocative, such as ObamaConfirmation, or something uplifting. Thanks.

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OK. I know that this is going to get me into some trouble, but I think it's important to for TPM readers to be fully informed. I commented on this in the last thread b/c I felt that TPM got it wrong. I'm willing to give Obama more rhetorical leeway because he's a politician, not a journalist.

But for the record, the group now called Al Qaeda in Iraq, formerly Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, was in Iraq before the U.S. invasion. The group was created and by al-Zarqawi until his death. In 2004, al-Zarqawi renamed the group "Al-Qaeda in Iraq" and pledged allegiance to Bin Laden, but the group maintained independence. It was more of a re-branding effort than a merger. So to say that the war brought AQ into Iraq is misleading. If you mean the terrorist group created and run by the late al-Zarqawi, it was there before. If you mean the terrorist group created and run by Bin Laden, it's not there now.

Obama's point, of course, is still valid. As a result of the invasion al-Zarqawi's group grew in size and expanded operations, refocused its attacks on U.S. military targets and Iraqi civilians (it had formerly been battling the Kurdish pesh merga), and established a relationship with Bin Laden's organization. And certainly, the world is more dangerous as a result.

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If it makes you feel better, you enlightened at least one soul on the internet today.

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Excellent. It only takes one soul to get me into heaven, right? Do I get virgins too?

Bush did not Invade Iraq to fight a small rag tag bunch, not named Al-Qaeda, that was operating in the Kurdish zone that was already under US military control. WMD WMD WMD. That is what they screamed at us over and over.

The War Mongers kicked down the doors into Iraq which allowed the Foreign Terrorists, that call themselves Al-Qaeida to flow in, and establish a strong presence across Non Kurdish Iraq. They were not there before Bush/McCain played doormen, and let them into Iraq.

Senator Obama is absolutely correct in what he said.

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Obama is correct that terrorists have flowed into Iraq since the invasion. If they are being coordinated by Bin Laden's AQ organization, then you could say they are AQ. If not, then they are really terrorists who call themselves AQ.

As I said all along, Obama's point is correct, but he's glossing over the details and using the term "Al Qaeda" loosely. As is McCain.

Ghengis,

To be fair, others might have different intuitions about what counts as the same group. How much re-branding, leadership change, and membership turnover can a group undergo before we have, in effect, a different group?

And I don't know of any informed analyst who rules out there being AQ groups in Iraq that were, from their inception, AQ operations. The presence of any such group would serve McCain's purposes just as well (which is not to say that they'd serve his purposes well, by any means).

So your remonstrations are arguably superfluous.

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I don't know enough about Al-Qaeda in Iraq's new leadership to say with confidence what it has become. But at the time it changed it's name, there was no evidence of any significant cooperation between AQinI and AQ, which was rebuilding but still had communication problems in hiding in Afghanistan. Jama'at al-Tawhid had already been attacking U.S. soldiers and Iraqi civilians for some time before the name change, so there was no significant change in tactics at that time. In short, you have the same group, with the same leader and the same tactics, with a new name and a verbal loyalty pledge. It's hard to say that Bin Laden's AQ sprang into Iraq at that moment.

My "remonstrations are superfluous" if we're talking about whether Obama is right that the invasion increased the number and power of terrorists in Iraq. He is clearly right on that. My remonstrations are not superfluous if the goal is a more nuanced representation of what happened before and after the invasion and what we mean when we say "Al Qaeda". I think that there's been more than enough Qaeda misrepresentation for the past 7 years, thank you.

You're right of course about al-Zarqawi being within Iraq's official borders prior to the US invasion.

Liam's point is at least as important though, that he was not operating within the area controlled by Saddam Hussein.

The Bush Administration has been trying and failing to connect these two ever since the war started.

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I did not suggest that al-Zarqawi had any relation to Hussein. And I wrote that Obama was right in the substance of his argument. But TPM is a thinking-person's site, and I felt that it was important to clarify the facts, which Obama's argument glosses over. It seems that some people have trouble distinguishing between a nuanced clarification for the sake of accuracy and an attack on Obama.

In support of your statement re: al-Zarqawi and Iraqi government not being linked.

"We could never verify that there was any Iraqi authority, direction and control, complicity with al-Qaeda for 9/11 or any operational act against America, period."

former CIA Director George Tenet, April 29, 2007

A further point of clarification.

Al-Zarqawi is a Jordanian who was in _Afganistan_ running a militant training camp when the US invaded in 2001. Wounded during the invasion, he fled to Iraq for medical treatment. He then started working with the Kurdish seperatist groups "Ansar al-Islam". After the US invaded Iraq in 2003, Ansar al-Islam changed it's focus and became the Jama'at al-Tawid wal-Jihad, dedicated to getting rid of the coalition forces. In early 2004, the JTJ joined forces with another group, the Salafiah al-Mujahidiah. It's in late 2004 that Al-Zarqawi pledged alliegance to Osama Bin Laden and formed what the US calls 'Al- Qaeda in Iraq'.

I thank you for your well made point, dear Genghis. I also thank Liam and Episteme for their well made (and, to my mind, convincing) rejoinders.

While I typically appreciate historical clarifications, in this case I think it unnecessarily muddies the water.

w'al-jihad was not al-Qaeda. It did not have proven (or suggested so far as I know) material ties or contacts with al-Qaeda. There is nothing else to it.

Saying that w'al-jihad later announced an alliance with al-Qaeda is like having Wal-Mart buy out Mom 'n Pop's Local Grocery and then taking Pop to court for Wal-Mart's labour law breaking in the 90's. It does not apply.

There is a far more potent line of attack for the Republicans here, though: the old "we are fighting them there instead of here." We need a good, concise answer for that and I think the best approach is something like this: "No, we are fighting them there and here. Groups such as w'al-jihad as well as individuals have been joining al-Qaeda due to the unnecessary and ill-conceived Iraq war and al-Qaeda itself has been able to regain its strength with Iraq distracting the U.S. from hunting them in Afghanistan and elsewhere."

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Thank you, thank you… and so on, for pointing that out.

Senator McCain's claims regarding the complex situation in Iraq are indefensible, and quite inaccurate and unreasonable in almost every instance.

Yet, Senator Obama's claim regarding al-Qaeda in Iraq, more reasonably termed al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia—after all, the now deceased bad guy gets to define his own brand here—was alive and kicking, albeit in it's infancy to some degree, long before our foolish invasion and occupation of Iraq began.

It's important to 'get it right' and project an accurate, if even complex, explanation. Senator Obama took a short cut, and I fear that this behavior will be a common problem in the future.

I would not vote for Senator McCain if he were the 'last man standing' for President, though it is foolish to saddle him alone among members of the Senate with the bad decision of President Bush and Vice President Cheney: after all, a disheartening number of Democratic Senators deserves just as much credit as Senator McCain, including Senators Joseph Biden, Maria Cantwell, Hillary Clinton, Tom Daschel, Chris Dodd, John Edwards, Diane Feinstein, Tom Harkin, John Kerry, Bill Nelson, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer and others.

How quickly people seem to forget this. Or, maybe, they simply never knew…

An incredible number of those who offered comments before you missed this entirely. The shameful conduct of 77 Senators and 296 Representatives from both parties is a cloak well worn by the majority of the members of Congress at the time.

And, it's worth pointing out—as always—that Senator Obama is not due a free pass on this issue, as he was not a member of either house at the time that the Authorization for the Use of Military Force in Iraq was passed. Senator Obama is often referred to as a strong opponent of the war at the time, but the totality of the evidence suggests otherwise. He has not explicitly made the claim that he would have voted with the minority himself, and could not defend it if he had made such a claim.

It's time for his invigorated supporters to stop doing so.

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Greatest Iraq war metaphor ever:
http://www.cagle.com/working/070510/eagan.jpg

First of all, he didn't say "as he'd hoped" he said "as WE'd hoped."

Secondly, "hoping" someone would respond in a certain way in no way insinuates "a position of authority" over it. In fact, I think “hoping” for an outcome clearly points to a lack of control over the outcome.

Obama's lucky he can count on the public's ignorance regarding al-Qaeda in Iraq (or anywhere else, for that matter). That way he can keep promoting Republican talking points.

Huh? How is this promoting Republican talking points?

Greg DeLassus,

For starters, by going along with the overstated (Bush) premise that al-Qaeda in Iraq is a force worth highlighting over all others. "Al-Qaeda in Iraq" is a Republican talking point.

By accepting the (Bush) premise—rather than debunking it as exaggerated or even calling out McCain on his own contradiction that the "surge is working," i.e., that "al-Qaeda insurgents" are being subdued in Iraq—Obama misses a big opportunity and sets himself up for losing this argument in a debate against McCain the War Hero.

If you have time, check out the article I linked to called "The Myth of AQI" by Andrew Tilghman. Here's the link again. It's an interesting analysis as well as a decent primer about AQI and the power struggles in Iraq.

I did check out your link. I agree that it is an interesting piece, but it does not really serve to establish your claim that Obama (who is never mentioned in it) is indulging Republican talking points. I grant you that he is not challenging this particular talking point, but it is a stretch to say that he is promoting it. You are trying too hard here.

You're right, Greg. I'm too tired to counter the misinformation in this comment thread. But thanks for reading the article.

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Genghis,
Your right that there was a group of al jihad (Zwahiri's group) fighters in western kurdistan before the iraq invasion.

Here is the most salient part of this fact:
the Bush administration had ample opportunity to destroy this group of committed and geographically concentrated jihadis before they launched the iraq war, but they choose not to because they felt it would weaken their argument that iraq had to be attacked in the first place. After Americans rolled into Iraq the jihadis were able to disperse and get away. An Operation Anaconda repeat if you will. (there is reporting on this fact I even think it was in the NYT)

No Republican can use this to attack the democratic nominee for President. It would backfire.

Northern Observer,

And yet it might still be a useful set of facts for McCain. After all, McCain would very much like to distance himself from the Iraq war, but he cannot do so in principle (too late for that). The next best thing would be to vehemently denounce (or is it 'reject'?) as many aspects of Bush's handling of the invasion and occupation.

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I donno, I think that ship has sailed. He's Mr surge. He accepts Bush's strategic logic and he can't climb that one down.
My point was that as a factoid this item is very daming for any republican who tries to pick it up.

Well accept Ron Paul but he will not be the nominee.

Yeah, I agree that it's damning. But, then again, nearly everything about the invasion and occupation is. For McCain, it's a matter of choosing the lesser evil at this point. If he can disagree with Bush about enough tactical and strategical matters, without appearing to abandon the project in principle, then that will, to some extent, stem the bleeding. And that's really all he can hope for.

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I buy that

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Exactly. The group now calling itself Al Qaeda in Iraq was in US/Kurdish controlled territory before we invaded, and was used as a cut-out excuse to throw into the pot along with WMDs to sell as a rationale for the invading.

It is also like how we hung Saddam for using chemical weapons on Kurdish villages during the Iran/Iraq war who were thought to be aiding Iran in the Kurdish controlled north, and we had no substantive problem with that, and were still selling him intel to fight back against Iran. In short, we hang him for being our son-of-a-bitch against Iran with our support.

Carol -- Bill Clinton was nowhere near that good. I remember wanting to get excited about him in general but never escaping the feeling that he was, well, shallow. And he dealt with attacks in a much more shallow fashion, often not taking a hit but not turning the bullet back at them, either.

Actually, the only politician I can think of who came close in the years since JFK and RFK (who *were* that good!!) is Mario Cuomo, although he had a bit more of a temper to deal with. I actually thought of him a lot when Obama first announced. It *did* seem early in his (Obama's) career, not quite the right time. And then I'd remember Cuomo waiting for the 'just right' time....

Re: discussion of Lanny Davis on another thread. I think the more central truth may be that Obama is a hard person to criticize not because of anything to do with race but because he's, well, simply a hard person to criticize. It's like shooting at a mirror - a lot of the blows are going to come right back at you, so you get a little edgy about what you want to throw out!

Re: John Edwards. I'm beginning to think that he might provide far greater assistance by remaining neutral and thereby being available to be one of the "Barry Goldwater committee" if one is needed: the group of party leaders who may at some point have to have that awkward 'conversation' with HRC, telling her that it's time to step down. He could prove vital in that role b/c I think he can truly talk meaningfully about life after losses and there is good will there. ------- Richardson, if he decided to endorse, could help a lot in the 3/4 contest (w/ Texas) but Edwards wouldn't add much at this point ..... whereas he might be just the person needed on 3/5 or shortly thereafter, along with Biden and 1 or 2 others, to approach Hillary if her wins are nowhere big enough but she's digging in for a long, drawn out fight. Just a thought that's been occurring lately...

Ghengis: for the record - you are wrong about al qaeda being in "iraq" and please stop using dick cheney lies and talking points.

Zaquari was in in Northern Iraq in an area NOT controlled by Sadaam - he did NOT have an organization there and there was NO support of al qaeda by Saddam - period.

Obama is correct - no al qaeda in Iraq until after we invaded. Period.

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correctnotright, your screen name should be correctnotrightbutonlyifdidnotreadpost.

I promise not use "dick cheney lies" if you promise not to put words into my mouth. I never said that al-Zarqawi had any relation to Saddam Hussein. I did not mention Hussein's name. But last I checked, northern Iraq has not split from the rest of the country yet. So technically speaking, al-Zarqawi was in Iraq.

I was at this event (in Columbus). And let me say, he blew the roof off when he started going after McCain.

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Agreed. It would be a good idea to deliver that line with a cool chuckle and the faintest hint of "I'm kicking cigarettes" in the vocal chords.

George Bush George Bush George Bush George Bush...

that's all Obama needs to say

i saw the whole feed live. the video doesn't do this bit justice. he started off in his trademark dry, bemused humor "you-guys-won't-believe-this!"

"Mccain is giving me 'new news' about Al Qaeda in Iraq." OMGWTFBBQ!!!!111 Thanks McCain you are so great to tell me this!!! What a pal.

But then Obama slammed back with "I read the papers, John McCain! I know where Al Qaeda is!" So great.

Almost tops this bit from Maryland, my favorite McCain throw down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSuyPM772-M

100 more years!

Nice job, Obama, I'd forgotten what it feels like to PWN a Republican.

The McCain line is that Obama is a coward and he "cuts and runs". So, to McCain Iraq is basically a huge pissing contest. That doesn't sound to me like he's gonna take decisions on Iraq based on cool and detached reasoning, like a good leader should, but rather on emotional considerations like:

"Oh yeah!? Let's see who's tough!?"

This means that, according to the warped neocon paradigm, Obama is a rational reasoning man and McCain is .... such a girl! ;)

Noteworthy is that Obama was referring to those who attacked us in New York and how they are unpursued in Afganistan and Pakistan because of the distraction that is Iraq.

Al Zarqawi's group in Iraq may have been worthy of pursuit, but the real crime has been the dropping the ball on Bin Laden.

And I am so delighted he is saying this. It's so true, and such a good response--this really did make us less safe, and if McCain goes on about an enemy and national security, Obama can just say, "You voted to divert resources from the mastermind of 9/11?"

In that video, he was going after McCain with much more gusto and enthusiasm than I've seen him do with Clinton.

How refreshing that is! The Lanny Davis/Mark Penn contingent usually displays more gusto going after other Democrats.

If you feel that more people should read about this exchange, consider uprating the nbcnews article.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23374260/

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I love this. McCain attacks Obama and Obama uses the attack to remind Americans that HE is the one who's going to get us out of Iraq. What's the number these days? Something like 68% of Americans want us out?

I wonder if McCain could learn to kick himself in the nuts if he practiced real hard...

Welcome to Hell
McCain Obamanated at OSU
Director's Cut

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2pXElHV6FA

CNN is now running with the story.

That video is so awesome. I'm over you, Clooney, you puppy-eyed bitch.

You know, Genghis, watching the video--well, it sounds like Obama says, "I've got news for you, there was no Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq..." I mean, the way he says it and the way he gestures, it sounds like "Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq," rather than "Al Qaeda, in Iraq." And, as Tim says, there indeed was no such thing "Al-Qaeda-In-Iraq" before the war--there was the terrorist organization, but them pledging allegiance to bin Laden is significant in terms of what the war has done. I mean, what I'm saying is if you watch it sounds like he is talking about the other organization, rather than Al Qaeda proper. It's actually rather nifty because what he's saying is true, (unlike McCain) but he's not using up all his sound bite explaining the intricacies of the thing, when in fact the point is more important--that they increased terrorist activity.

And Dick Cheney lies??????? Why didn't anyone TELL me?

@Genghis
This debate reminds me of some debates i had in a few middle east politics classes i had the last few semesters, good times we annoyed the professor a bit though since we argued about stuff for most the class time.

(off topic but funny side note, during one class a student who is quite informed but more on the conservative side did his paper on Iran nukes but 2 days before the paper was due the Intel report saying that they weren't making nukes came out, didn't hurt his grade but was quite funny. that guy owes me a dollar...)

Anyways back on topic.
Yes some of the people in Iraq atm called AQ in Iraq were in Iraq before the war. However many more AQ have come to Iraq who weren't there before and there are many reports saying that Iraq is used for training people then they go spread knowledge in other areas like Afghanistan.

Another key point would be if it wasn't for the war in Iraq AQ wouldn't have worked with AZ. There have been a few reports showing how AQ and AZ had many disagreements on tactics and goals and joined up by name because of the war in Iraq.

AZ wasn't focused on the US until the war in Iraq started. However i would say it is very possible that he would of gone to fight in Afghanistan if we didn't go to Iraq, but that isn't very important since if we didn't go to Iraq we could of done Afghanistan right.

Another thing to note is that AZ's organization wouldn't have been nearly as strong if it wasn't for the Iraq war then the renaming after that.

Also gotta look at what Obama said in context, he was doing a rally and did a quick response to what McCain has said, look how much we been discussing this if he were to put in all the info about the issue it wouldn't have gone nearly as well as it did.

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Awesome exchange. One of the problems that I have with mccain's argument, among many including that it is a blatant lie, is that al queda in iraq or whatever you want to call it could never in a million years take over the gd country. It just shows how gd stupid the war mongers are. The shiites who make up more than 50 percent of the population would never allow it to happen. Al queda is sunni and the shiites hate the sunnis. Also, the iraqi sunnis hate al queda as well. Of course, it's more than a sound bite so its hard for obama to make this point, but I wish the gd media would be all over the lies perpetrated by these people to keep us in fear. Al queda in iraq is predominately a republican fantasy to keep the war going. Get out of iraq and the place would calm down dramatically and al queda in iraq would be history. What a bunch of idiots.

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