Good, the establishment isn't going to be able to steal this thing.

I'm sorry, what's a super-delegate? I thought they were automatic delegates.

Stupid commenting system. Free advertising and revenue generation for moveon.org. They do more harm than good and remind people of the divisive politics of the 90's, by among other things, their name alone. I wish they would just move on.

By the way, if it ever pops up, the comment with the misspelling of divisive is mine.

A picture is worth a thousand "pretty" words:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01302008/news/nationalnews/photo_that_has_women_furious_930088.htm

Is that the expression of a man out to unite the country??

Get real moveon.org ! That is who you're championing? No big surprise there. Far lefty lunes.

Rae

Here is another prime example of "Ready From Day One" leadership and organizational prowess from Hllary.

The Wall Street Journal provides a snapshot of life inside Hillaryland: "But the campaign has something of a shellshocked feel, as staffers privately chew over a blowup last week where internal frictions flared into the open. Clinton campaign operatives say it happened as top Clinton advisers gathered in Arlington, Va., campaign headquarters to preview a TV commercial. ‘Your ad doesn't work,’ strategist Mark Penn yelled at ad-maker Mandy Grunwald. ‘The execution is all wrong,’ he said, according to the operatives. ‘Oh, it's always the ad, never the message,’ Ms. Grunwald fired back, say the operatives. The clash got so heated that political director Guy Cecil left the room, saying, ‘I'm out of here.’”

Seanh.

Agree wholeheartedly, even enthusiastically, with your second comment.

Your first one, not so much.

You don't have to change the rules to pressure a superdelegate to follow the popular vote and pledged delegate vote. Its no different from pressuring them to cast their ballots for Candidate X because Candidate X has Strength and Experience. They can listen to you or not. They're still free to do whatever the hell they want.

Seat Florida and Michigan delegates? That's changing the rules midstream.

During the campaigning, Obama was staying in constant contact with leaders in Kenya who are fighting over there in a civil war. I'm not sure why or what he was lending to that process. But it made me wonder, IF he were elected, would he be pulling our troops out of Iraq just to send them over to Kenya?

Wonder if MoveOn.org would support that??

Rae

If one candidate wins more pledged delegates than another, but the superdelegates reverse the outcome, why have a vote at all? Why not just let the superdelegates decide?

I'm not saying Obama can't separately support these two contradictory positions.

It's not contradictory at all. One is an example of changing the rules in the middle of the game. Fairly or unfairly, the DNC rules and sanctions say that the Michigan and Florida delegates should not be seated. The argument in this case is that the rules should be followed.

But nobody is arguing that the rules should be changed for the super-delegates. According to the rules they are free to choose anyone they want to choose. The argument in this case isn't that the rules should be changed, it's that the super-delegates would be making a strategic blunder to give the nomination to someone who lost the elected delegate count. But it's a blunder that, according to the rules, they are free to make.

The Hillary camp is arguing the opposite sides of both of course, and that's not contradictory either. Their first argument is that the rules should be changed in mid-game. Their second argument is that the super-delegates should vote their personal preferences, even if that means that gives the race to someone with fewer elected delegates.

I support Obama. I suspect that if the situation were reversed, the positions of the two candidates on both issues would be reversed. But I'm much happier being on the side of arguing that (a) the rules shouldn't be changed in mid-game, and (b) the super-delegates should take into account the likely backlash of giving the nomination to the candidate with the fewest elected delegates. Trying to change the rules in mid-game just seems sleazy. And without a doubt if my candidate has the most elected delegates and ends up not being the nominee, I'll accept that this was within the rules but won't be happy that the bigwigs took it upon themselves to override the will of the majority of voters in the primaries and caucuses.

If they were not super delegates then all the delegates would be elected, and the one who won the most of them in the primaries and caucuses would be the nominee.

That is how most elections are decided.

I love how the Obama position has become so clear now that he holds the delegate lead. MoveOn too. Where was their position 3 months ago if this is such a clear choice of what to do? The people on here that threaten not to vote if Obama loses are not helping anything. I could care less who you vote for. It seems to be an empty threat based clearly on race or gender. Republicans don't have super-delegates and your loyalty to the democratic party seems rather vague. Maybe your candidate is running in the wrong party all together.

Chris:
These are the rules, you can not seat the MI and FL delegates because these were the rules going in. You CAN for super-delegates to commit there vote based on New rules because the ones going in do not seem fair now. Super-Delegates may vote the same way MI and FL did, and that just cannot be fair, it may even be racist.

Wouldn't it be the right moment for Obama to take the high road and declare: we want to win fair and so we will not try to influence the superdelegates, our surrogates will stop calling and lobbying. We are for transparency. Everyone will have to explain why he/she voted like he/she did. That would save ressources, make clear Obama respects rules, give him moral authority, put enormous pressure on the Clinton team not to be seen as stealing it away. Even if Obama looses he will save face, become the moral autority and his movement can only benefit from such a position. His stance should be not to engage in trench warfare, because what's at stake here is to exactly change these kind of things.

we already have pledged delegates from winning or placing in districts and endorsements by Senator/Congressmen/Mayors. the former setup is easy enough to figure out the necessity of, but maybe someone wants to tell me why these latter individuals get double clout? or why unelected Party officials get any clout in our electoral system at all?

put another way: if i didn't have the ability to vote for someone, why would that someone get an official say in who becomes the nominee of my party?

what is the practical argument for having superdelegates at all? is there one? i haven't heard it.

A MoveOn spokesperson says that the criterion the supers should use to determine the will of the people is whoever is ahead in pledged delegates at the end of the day.

Oh, and not, say, the overall popular vote? What if the winner of the overall popular vote is different from the winner of the pledged delegates?

What dishonest shills for Obama these creeps are. Truly disgusting.

Ugh. You lost me at MoveOn.

I think Rae makes a good point -- we have so few specifics about Sen. Obama that its fair to judge him on his conduct, as documented. I expected more maturity, more political sense. And the pictures are consistent with his dismissive conduct in other venues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4UgXzXaueI&NR=1
But Rae should not expect to move this crowd with arguments based on evidence.

My point for bring it up is:

1) He won't reveal details;
2) He's been cloaked by MNBC and others so that we really don't know that much about him;
3) We therefore have to judge him based on what we can see;

Now, look at his expressions! This was the day after he got the Kennedy's endorsement? Why not be a gracious winner?
But no. He's not only NOT gracious, he's conspiratorial and rude. Why all the hostility?

I think his TRUE nature and what he attempts to portray as the new "uniter" are two very different things.

When this first came out, his excuse was that he wanted to give Clinton and Kennedy a moment alone together.

When they realized how ridculous that sounded, he changed it. The pictures show the truth.

that's all i'm sayin....

Rae
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01292008/news/nationalnews/01292008_capitol/photo02.htm

Raeka, might I suggest the NY Times. Better and more credible information than the post. The NY Post is a fox entertainment operation, if you didn't know, which means no credibility and political agenda.

Uh, excuse me Michael A...

those were MY words and opinion.

I just included a link with some photos from NY post photo gallery to make a point on an earlier remark I made regarding Obama's duplicitous personality.

Rae

Too much to list here BillySumday.

I will just post a link that makes it a little easier to review:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/

Rae

No, no, no. What has she done? Not what she's promising. What she's done.

Also, compare and contrast:
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

I gave you the link. You don't want to READ her record.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/about/

Read it !!

This is her story and some of what she's accomplished, not just her positions.

Now, I throw it back to you. What's this one term motivational speaker done??

I'll tell you ONE thing he's done:
Senate Bill 2433

I just heard about it:

7% of our countries GDP will go to the poor overseas...

What about our own poor?? People HERE can't pay their heating bills. People HERE are going hungry and can't buy groceries. What about our OWN people?

This is the guy you guys are promoting??

No doubt a good chuck of that money will be going to Kenya!

Rae

This is in response to billysumday: I'm not sure I can get all of this into this post. There may be a word limit: But here goes:

She spent decades in public service on behalf of children and families before being elected to the United States Senate in 2000.

She’s been an advocate for the states she lived and worked in, most recently, New York. She’s worked with communities across that state to strengthen the economy and to expand opportunity with legislation and persuasion.

She was the first New Yorker ever to serve on the Senate Armed Services Committee, working to see that America’s military has the necessary resources to protect our national security.

She supports a return to fiscal responsibility, because she knows that wise national economic policies are essential to protect America’s future.

She also serves on the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee; the Environment and Public Works Committee; and the Special Committee on Aging.

She chairs the Senate Democratic Steering and Outreach Committee, which is responsible for communicating with the public about key issues before Congress.

After the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, she worked to secure the funds New York needed to recover and rebuild .

She fought to provide compensation to the families of the victims, grants for hard-hit small businesses, and health care for front line workers at Ground Zero. And she has continued to work for resources to enable New York to grow, to improve homeland security for New York as well as other communities, and to protect all Americans from future attacks.

She introduced legislation to provide for direct and threat-based homeland security funding to ensure that first responders and high-target communities have the resources they need.

In 2004, she was asked by the Department of Defense to serve as the only Senate member of the Transformation Advisory Group to the Joint Forces Command.
She visited troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, at Fort Drum in New York, home of the 10th Mountain Division and other New York bases, as well as at Walter Reed Military Hospital, to learn first hand the challenges facing American combat forces.

After learning of the horrific conditions she led the cause for increased benefits and better treatment of our veterans. She is an original sponsor of legislation that expanded health benefits to members of the National Guard and Reserves.

She continued her work for children and families in the Senate, Hillary led efforts to ensure the safety of prescription drugs for children, with legislation now included in the Best Pharmaceuticals for Children Act; worked to strengthen the Children’s Health Insurance Program which increased coverage for children in low income and working families, and helps schools address environmental hazards.

She has continued to work to increase access to health care. She authored legislation that has been enacted to improve recruitment and retention of nurses, to improve quality and lower the cost of prescription drugs, and to protect our food supply from bioterrorism.

She sponsored legislation to increase America’s commitment against Global AIDS, and is now leading the fight for expanded use of information technology in the health care system to decrease administrative costs and reduce medical errors.
To help businesses expand, Senator Clinton co-sponsored legislation enacted in 2004 to extend tax credits to communities that can help businesses in regions designated as Renewal Communities. She has sponsored conferences and business development tours throughout the state, aimed at attracting new investment; introduced legislation to increase access to broadband technology in rural areas; and serves as Honorary Chair of the Advisory Committee for New Jobs for New York.

She has spoken clearly about the importance of protecting our constitutional rights, respecting such landmark Supreme Court decisions as Roe v. Wade. Her commitment to supporting Roe and working to reduce the number of abortions, by reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies, was hailed by the New York Times as “frank talk...(and) a promising path.” Hillary is one of the original cosponsors of the Prevention First Act to increase access to family planning.
She is strongly committed to making sure that every American has the right to vote in fair, accessible, and credible elections -and that every vote must be counted. She has introduced the Count Every Vote Act of 2005 to provide a verified paper ballot for every vote cast in electronic voting machines; set a uniform standard for provisional ballots, and require the Federal Election Assistance Commission to issue standards that ensure uniform access to voting machines and election personnel in every community. Because the Republican Congress has been unwilling to deal with this issue, Hillary is working with advocacy groups and citizen volunteers to build the demand for action.
After graduating from College and Yale Law School, she practiced law in Arkansas and was appointed by President Jimmy Carter in 1977 to chair the United States Legal Services Corporation, and also served as head of the American Bar Association Committee on Women in the Profession.

She was Chair of the Board of the Children’s Defense Fund, a national advocacy group for the interests of children, from 1986-1991.
As First Lady of the United States from 1993-2001, she led efforts to make adoption easier and increase support for families in the adoption and foster care system; to increase funding for breast cancer research and treatment and for children’s vaccinations; and to make education, health care, and economic opportunity available for women and girls around the world. As keynote speaker at the United Nations Fifth International Conference on Women, in Beijing China, she spoke for the rights of women and girls around the world, saying “Women’s rights are human rights and human rights are women's rights."
Her leadership as First Lady was recognized by the many awards she received, including: the Elie Wiesel Foundation Humanitarian Award; Martin Luther King Jr. Award, Progressive National Baptist Convention; Family Circle Woman Who Makes a Difference Lifetime Achievement Award; National Federation of Black Women Business Owners, Black Women of Courage Award; National Association of Elementary School Principals Distinguished Service Award; Save the Children Distinguished Service Award, The National Council for Adoption, "For advocacy on behalf of adoption"; Henrietta Szold Award, Hadassah; and the Irish American Peace Prize, by Irish American Democrats.
Since being elected to the Senate, her awards for public service include: The Secretary of Defense Medal for Outstanding Public Service, United States Department of Defense; President’s Award, League of United Latin American Citizens; Senator of the Year, National Multiple Sclerosis Society; The Military Order of the Purple Heart, in recognition of her initiative and perseverance in assisting the Military Order of the Purple Heart; National Hispanic Medical Association, for leadership in improving the health of Hispanics; Woman of Steel, Role Model of the Year, United Steel Workers of America; the 2004 Women in Politics Award, The National Hispana Leadership Institute; International Women’s Philanthropy Award by the Lion of Judah Conference, of Combined Jewish Philanthropies; the Cesar E. Chavez Award of the Cesar E. Chavez Foundation; and the Distinguished Bridge Builder Award, Leon H. Sullivan Foundation.
Her book, memoir, Living History, was published in June, 2003 and has now sold more than 3 million copies. She has also written It Takes a Village: and Other Lessons Children Teach Us; Dear Socks, Dear Buddy: Kids Letters to the First Pets; and An Invitation to the White House, a tribute to the historic home of the nation's First Families.

Now YOUR turn!

Rae

Josh L, I agree. Ridiculous rant by Rae. and then your comment is followed by another Billary-supporter in denial that she and her campaign are sinking quickly into the quicksand that is a slow defeat. They squirm and deny and sink and deny they're sinking.

The other Josh-Josh Marshall-made a great point on the last episode of Election Round-up (#2) about the 400 or so Superdelegates that are uncommitted have remained uncommitted because they are waiting for a winner. That winner is looking more and more like Barack Obama.

Also, like the great John Lewis, other African-American superdelegates that were pledged as he was to Clinton will break. As Jesse Jackson, Jr. puts it to them, "Do you want to be the one standing in the way of the first black president?"

wow Raeka, hate to break it to you ... but that pretty little copy and paste job didn't hold one answer to the question posed. You were asked to simply point out a few key accomplishments in her political career, or life in public service ... and you came back with some nice clinton propaganda using terms like 'advocated', 'fought for', 'worked with', & 'defended'.

Well wow, she fought for children? How exactly(as this was the original question)? She worked to secure funds for NYC after 9/11? I'm sure that was a lonely battle. Come on.

You have also listed a nice little list of items that adorn the clinton trophy room. Let me ask you this ... which one of those awards does any person on this site (or any other site with a well-educated political readership) actually recognize and realize as an achievement?

These awards are pretty regularly handed out to public figures regardless of actual involvement ... it is many times simply putting your name to a cause, and then accepting the award along with the other 100 people involved. Come on.

I would like to simplify the question if I may. Could you please give just a few, maybe 3 successes of hers, in which it can be clearly illustrated that it was a cause she personally championed, and saw the result affect thousands of people for the better?

Not a co-signed bill, not something she 'fought for' or 'worked on' ... those are not accomplishments, they are nice ways of phrasing failures.

Excellent article:
From: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/02/obama_casts_his_spell.html

ABC's Jake Tapper notes the "Helter-Skelter cultish qualities" of "Obama worshipers," what Joel Stein of the Los Angeles Times calls "the Cult of Obama." Obama's Super Tuesday victory speech was a classic of the genre. Its effect was electric, eliciting a rhythmic fervor in the audience -- to such rhetorical nonsense as "We are the ones we've been waiting for. (Cheers, applause.) We are the change that we seek."
....

LOL LOL....

You people are acting so dumb its sad..

You are the one's you've been waiting for.... LOL

No wonder you can't understand Hillary's record or what I've posted! I'm sorry. I really didn't know who I was dealing with. LOL LOL LOL

ROTFL

Rae