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Los Angeles Times Endorses Obama, McCain

The Los Angeles Times throws its support to Barack Obama and John McCain.

It's a coup for both in a state where on the Dem side Obama is closing on Hillary and on the GOP side McCain is ahead and racking up major endorsements, such as that of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.

On Obama:

An Obama presidency would present, as a distinctly American face, a man of African descent, born in the nation's youngest state, with a childhood spent partly in Asia, among Muslims. No public relations campaign could do more than Obama's mere presence in the White House to defuse anti-American passion around the world, nor could any political experience surpass Obama's life story in preparing a president to understand the American character. His candidacy offers Democrats the best hope of leading America into the future, and gives Californians the opportunity to cast their most exciting and consequential ballot in a generation.

In the language of metaphor, Clinton is an essay, solid and reasoned; Obama is a poem, lyric and filled with possibility. Clinton would be a valuable and competent executive, but Obama matches her in substance and adds something that the nation has been missing far too long -- a sense of aspiration.

The McCain endorsement here.


126 Comments

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That's the big one there, folks. Much, much more important to the Obama campaign than the NYT's was.

Congrats.

That's a terrible endorsement, verging on tokenism. His face is brown, thus good public relations. Just awful. What about policy? Experience? This is identity politics at its worst and most offensive.

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I look forward to the next set of CA polls. If Obama can take CA and avoid getting creamed in NY and TX, I do believe that he can win this thing. The trends suggest that time on his side if he can stay in the race.

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BAM! They hit it good. Like I tried to post earlier, the global appeal of Obama is something huge for a country that needs to regain its position after Bush. With Obama just the sight of him will show the world that something has fundamentally changed, and that is before he even opens his mouth. Of course it won't make everyone love us overnight, but it will send a big signal that things are changing and there is still hope.

Anyway, this endorsement will definitely help in Cali. Damn, Obama is having a hell of a day today with endorsements, two big labor unions, MoveOn, a representative from Connecticut, and now this, just to name some of the major ones. All Hillary got was Ann Coulter.

BluePuppy:

Go read the whole thing. There's more than identity politics there. Like the following:

On policy, Obama and his rival Democratic candidate, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, are a hairsbreadth apart. Both vow to pull troops from Iraq. Both are committed to healthcare reform. Both offer candid critiques of the failed George W. Bush presidency, its blustering adventurism, its alienating stance toward other countries and its cavalier disregard for sacred American values such as individual liberty and due process of law.

And if there's very little difference between two candidates on policy (as the Times seems to think), what else could be said?

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BluePuppy, give it up, seriously.

They didn't just talk about his background, they also mentioned he has all the substance that Hillary does, and brings more to the table that she can't. I think it was a good endorsement, and I think the identity thing should be said, and is definitely fair game after Hillary used her "electing a woman would be change" argument again at last night's debate. If this is awful "identity politics" then Hillary's comment was just as bad. At least this wasn't only about race, it was about where he was born, where he grew up, his family, quite a few things.

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Bluepuppy: Read the whole endorsement -- it covers the gamut of relevant policy experience, sound judgment on the disastrous Iraq decision, communications skills, and ability to mobilize. It's a big and well-earned endorsement for him.

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Bluepuppy, I thought you changed your ways. Well at least the LA Times endorsement is honest, unlike the NY Times endorsement. They claimed that obama allegedly had no specifics about his policies and programs. What a bunch of BS. All they had to do was go to his website for specifics. No wonder they screwed up on the lead up to the war in iraq. Talk about lazy.

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Nice to see Blue Puppy is still keeping it real, as always. What a foof.

Of course I did the read the whole thing and I disagree that they are "a hairsbreadth apart" on policy issues, especially health care. Obama is now attacking Hillary from the right
on health care, so I think that's substantive difference. And if the Times is giving the same weight to policy and skin color, then I still believe it's tokenism.

Hillary Care has zero chance of passing. Tell me where you get the 60 votes in the Senate to pass it.
Truth is I doubt they can get even 40 Democrats to support Hillary Care. No Red State or Blue dog Democrat will want to be seen voting for Hillary care

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'In the language of metaphor, Clinton is an essay, solid and reasoned; Obama is a poem, lyric and filled with possibility.'

PFFFFFFFFFFFF!

What the hell?

It's too late in the day for this tripe.

LOL

Nothing else really to say.

**smdh**

This is a great endorsement. // Sue

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Excellent. More favorable press ink in the lead-up to next Tuesday's vote.

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Well conceived and well delivered endorsement of Obama.

"In the language of metaphor, Clinton is an essay, solid and reasoned; Obama is a poem, lyric and filled with possibility. Clinton would be a valuable and competent executive, but Obama matches her in substance and adds something that the nation has been missing far too long -- a sense of aspiration."

I think this paragraph angers alot of Anti-Obama people, but It is true and more important than any other factor. Whithout getting more people as interested and involved as us TPMers are, nothing else matters. It is the classic bottom-up politics vs. top-down politics. The more informed and interested everyone is, the happier and more populist the results will be (another reason why honesty is more important than political gamesmenship).

As a side note, political ability, honesty, intelegence ,and inspiration are in no way mutually exclusive. That is one thing that a lot of media outlets can't seem to understand.

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LA Times is a great endorsement, not because it will garner Obama many votes, but because it robs HRC from claiming a sweep in Southern California where many Latinos live. Rest assured the board at the LA Times did not come to this decision lightly.

In realistic terms, Kennedy and MoveOn endorsements are much more significant because they come with a funding and political infrastructure that can be tapped.

LA Times,however, also helps the momentum. The Clintons pushed to have the superduper Tuesday as a means to prevent momentum from building up for anyone else (so they reasoned).

The problem is that no one knew that the electorate was so fed up with a dynasty rule (which is coming more and more to the front of the discussion), that a popular alternative would allow the Clintons little wiggle room for the same front-loaded primary reasons.

Chickens have come home to roost!

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KevinQ: Inspiration is something this country is desperate for. Bush failed so miserably to provide it after September 11th ... "go out shopping."

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This is an offensive and shallow endorsement, much like what Obama got in Nevada for his pandering with Reagan and Republican niceties. Worse really. This is more of the racist, vote for him because he's Black, garbage we've seen from Oprah and others in recent weeks. It is so devoid of ideas and says we can put a pretty face out there and win back our lost reputation. Talk about drinking the Kool-Aid. This is a loser endorsement for Obama, bad for the party, and very bad for the country.

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'In the language of metaphor, Clinton is an essay, solid and reasoned; Obama is a poem, lyric and filled with possibility.'

PFFFFFFFFFFFF!

What the hell?

It's too late in the day for this tripe.

LOL

Nothing else really to say.

**smdh**

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Boy is Obama building up momentum. You get the sense that everyone thought they had no choice but to vote for Clinton, as if she were an incumbent. But recently it seems that people have realized that they do have a choice. The more people see of Obama, the better he does. The more people see of Hillary, not so much.

In an election where the candidates' positions aren't that far apart (save for one major indefensible vote), people are leaving behind the candidate who inspires exactly no one and tries to divide even her own party, and instead are gravitating to the candidate who wants to lift all of us up and raise the bar for our country.

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This is really a brainless endorsement ...unfortunately, it may influence thousands to vote for Obama, who is simply much less electable despite all the wishful thinking of 'today's youth calling for a real change in Washington' (how many millions of times have we been forced to hear that crap?!)

I for one am SICK TO DEATH of people talking about a candidate's LIKABILITY. Didn't we have enough of George (he's the kind of guy I could sit down and have a beer with) Bush? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE can we base our choice not on smiles and snubs...but on POLITICAL EXPERIENCE? Of course, the owners of all the big media operations (CNN/MSNBC/Time Warner/NYT are doing everything they can to sink Hillary (despite her experience) and promote the WEAKER candidate.

Come September the same corporations that created the Obama sensation will quickly and effectively deflate him (believe me, they'll find or create the dirt) and we'll find ourselves with McCain as president. Oh Gosh I wonder where that 32 million came from.

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KevinQ wrote:

"It is the classic bottom-up politics vs. top-down politics. The more informed and interested everyone is, the happier and more populist the results will be (another reason why honesty is more important than political gamesmenship)."

Well, Kevin, I think you are wrong and are making the mistake of transferring your feelings onto the general population. Sure, younger and/or more idealistic activist types love this sort of utopian vision of society but it is just that - a vision, not a reality.

The reality is that most of the population doesn't want to be involved in politics. They don't want to make legislation, they don't want to design economic policy, they don't want to draft health care agreements, they don't want to negotiate treaties. They want competent professionals to do this. They are too busy taking care of their own lives.

Citizen voters are like corporate stockholders. They don't want to run the company. They want to elect people they trust to run the company and they don't want to be bothered too much by the day to day struggles of the corporation. If they stockholders don't think the company is run well, they'll throw them out.

Want to know why Clinton and McCain are still the frontrunners in this campaign despite the strongly unfavorable (favorable) press bias to Clinton (Obama)? This question from the Fox News poll tells you all you want to know:

(asked of all types of voters)

Who is the most likely to be ready to lead the country on day one of the presidency?

Clinton 34%
McCain 31%
Obama 17%
Romney 8%

Kevin, you want romance from politics. So do most bloggers, journalists, and pundits. Most voters just want a well run government that doesn't give them too many headaches and lives up to its obligations without adding too many new ones. My advice to you is to find romance with another human being instead of a political vision.

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Nice endorsement. He'll need the Spanish newspaper's endorsement though if he wants to make any inroads in that community.

That's mushy language. Like Obama, it sounds beautiful but in the end it's as solid as a wisp of smoke. Praising Reagan and saying that Republicans were the party of ideas for last 10-15 years; attacking Hillary from the right on health care; attacking Hillary for stumbling on the question of driver's licenses for illegals while having done the same thing; promising to meet with world dictators in one year without pre-conditions; using Republican talking points on social security; basing your campaign on one speech from 2002 but not having taken any leadership since then on getting us out of Iraq; hedging on affirmative action, etc, etc. This is a pandering Chicago politician with shady ties who will say and do anything. He's become a rorschach for those who want a certain kind of politician , but in the end there's nothing there but a self-promoting biography candidate , as the Times insists. That's why there's a class divide in this election. I'm sticking with lunch-bucket Democrats.

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bluepuppy, health care is not the only issue, and it's a bit facile to suggest that Obama is to the right of Clinton because of a single issue. It used to be that Clinton was disparaged by the left because she was too cozy with the Republicans and Obama was considered by some to be too progressive to win the nomination. Meanwhile, their voting record in the senate is extremely close.

What has changed? Primary politics. Clinton decided that she needed to move left to win the base. Obama decided that he needed to move right to attract independents. But it's naive to think that their few stated policy differences accurately predict how they would govern. In particular, I'm sure that if Clinton wins the nomination, she'll move quickly to triangulate rightward in order to attract independents in the general election. That was Bill's legacy, and Hillary did the same thing in the Senate elections, particularly the first one, when the Republicans were still popular and her race was tougher.

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Michael A, thank you. That's what I've been telling the "but he lacks specifics" people the whole time...they should do their homework. Nowadays with the internet and all there is really no excuse for not knowing what your candidate stands for - unless it's Hillary Clinton, who does not really stand for much unless it's politically expedient to do so.

This endorsement is both offensive and repugnant. It is on par, but worse, than the endorsement Obama got in Nevada (before he lost there). Seeing a respectable paper suggest that a pretty, Black face, with Muslim heritage, will restore America in the eyes of the world is ludicrous. It is also devoid of ideas and substance. This racist play, much like what Oprah and others have done in recent weeks, just adds to the reasons why Obama will fail. This endorsement and the perspective it represents is an embarrassment to Obama, to the Democratic party, and to the country.

Change is more than a pretty face, skin color, and wishful thinking. Thankfully, Americans can reject this with a vote for Clinton. Heck, even a vote for a Republican is better than succumbing to the blatant racism and stupidity expressed by the Los Angeles Times.

If Billary is the nominee, I will definitely be voting Republican.

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Vote republican? Now that's just silly.

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test comment (fingers crossed)

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This comment's probably a little wonky, but I find this endorsement especially interesting in light of the recent drama within the Tribune Company (which owns the LA Times and recently fired its editor). The Chicago Tribune is an historically conservative paper (unlike the LA Times), and speaking as a Chicagoan who reads it every day, they appear to have taken a position against the hometown hero, Obama. They've increasingly peppered their opinion and news pages with critical Obama pieces, and it's looked more and more possible that they might endorse Clinton.

To my point, I read a bit of organizational rebellion on the part of the LA Times editorial staff, here. They're doing their best to shove Obama right down their bosses' throats. And I say bully for them.

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The question is; After Hillary slamed both Bush One and Bush Two on last night's debate, is Bill Clinton still considered a member of the Bush family, and will Barbara still call him son?

Does Hillary still admire and respect John McCain, as Bill Clinton told us she does;

Which of course leads to this question:

If Bill Clinton can go around bragging about being considered a member of the Bush family, and Hillary can claim to be a big admirer and respecter of John McCain, then where the hell do the get the right to complain about Senator Obama saying something nice about Ronald Reagan?

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Also, if you are having problems with this or with creating an account, logout (if logged in), try clearing your browser cache (see tools or options in Firefox and IE), then log in or create your account. You likely have cached content on your browser from before the TPM update on Thursday.

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Obama is NOT attacking Hillary from the right on health care, they have reasonable policy differences, but understanding that mandates don't work, and not wanting to saddle low income people with the burden of getting health care even if they still can't afford it after their tax credits and whatnot is NOT a conservative position. Obama has very reasonable concerns about the mandates, and Massachusetts is having issues right now with their system precisely because of their mandates. Now this 15 million uninsured argument form the Clintons is a bullshit statistic, not based on any fact, and it is disingenuous to the extreme for her to say that a mandate (completely unenforceable, look at auto insurance and the millions of people who drive everyday without it despite the government mandate) makes hers universal and somehow better than Obama's.

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I am a white male, and I just want to make sure that I have the voting rules down correctly.

It is OK for 75 percent of Whites in South Carolina to vote against the Black Candidate, but it was wrong for a similar majority of Blacks in South Carolina to vote for the Black candidate.
Is that what you are calling racism, these days.

What are the rules: Is it that Whites can always vote for Whites, and Blacks can always vote for whites, but Blacks can never vote for Blacks. How nice for the White candidates.

Sounds to me like a lot of people still want Blacks "to know their place" and not start to act like they have the same voting rights as White people.

Look at the population of the USA. What percentage of it is African American. More than ten percent, which if they were to have fair representation should translate into having at least ten elected US Senators. They have just one, and he is half white, so when is it that all those whites who are whining about the black vote in South Carolina are going to start practicing what they preach and vote in greater numbers for Black candidates!

I know who the real racists are, and it is not the Black voters. It is the white voters who have refused to support a fair share of black candidates.

Not all whites are racists, and we do see through the efforts by the KKK types to smear the under represented African American community.

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Of course I did the read the whole thing and I disagree that they are "a hairsbreadth apart" on policy issues, especially health care. Obama is now attacking Hillary from the right
on health care, so I think that's substantive difference.

--------------

so to reinforce your point, rather than debate differences, you start talking about the talking about of healthcare policy?

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bluepuppy, health care is not the only issue, and it's a bit facile to suggest that Obama is to the right of Clinton because of a single issue. It used to be that Clinton was disparaged by the left because she was too cozy with the Republicans and Obama was considered by some to be too progressive to win the nomination. Meanwhile, their voting record in the senate is extremely close.

What has changed? Primary politics. Clinton decided that she needed to move left to win the base. Obama decided that he needed to move right to attract independents. But it's naive to think that their few stated policy differences accurately predict how they would govern. In particular, I'm sure that if Clinton wins the nomination, she'll move quickly to triangulate rightward in order to attract independents in the general election. That was Bill's legacy, and Hillary did the same thing in the Senate elections, particularly the first one, when the Republicans were still popular and her race was tougher.

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Read the LA Times endorsement in full, people. It's a beautiful argument, and is far from the half-hearted (back-handed) endorsement he recieved in AZ.

This is a great endorsement, well worth anyone reading in any state voting on Tuesday, and beyond.

(I'm a strong Obama supporter, obviously.)

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Mattie, I am sure that you won't have problems logging in and posting at hillaryis44.org. I don't know what endorsement you were reading, but it sure wasn't the la times endorsement, which is the subject of this post.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/122.aspx


Now that's an endorsement....

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Hmmm, carrying on with the LA Times metaphor, hows about Obama as Hallmark Card and Clinton as Don DeLillo.
And yes, the Times' (and Barak's) suggestion that Obama's racial history will somehow melt the Arab world and bring all those jihadists in from the cold is breathtaking in its ignorance.
Quite frankly it's the sort of thing Bush would say.
All of this quite aside from the inherent offense to American voters. I thought the party line was that this wasn't about race, Obama not the black candidate.
But now it and he are? How Pravda!

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I think this is a very good endorsement indeed, especially as it highlights the common sentiment among Democrats: They'd ALL be good presidents. If I could vote, I'd vote for any of them over any of the Republicans, (though I personally despise Clinton) and I do feel that they have comparable positions. Also, quite frankly, just because the mainstream Left says something DOES NOT mean it's true- in this we are no different from the Right. During the NH debates, I thought Obama's point on Clinton was very good- forcing people to buy health care when they can't afford it is neither practical nor particularly progressive. I live in Massachusetts, and so there's an awful lot of media coverage on the disastrous universal health care instated by Governor Romney, and I know just how bad it's going to get (I've yet to see a major difference between Hillary's plan and the Massachusetts one, though I concede that I am fairly ignorant about both).
And, though I've rarely seen Hillary supporters talk about it, there's more to the presidency than Health Care and Economic Stimulus (I'd be delighted if a Hillary supporter could prove me wrong and we could have a conversation about the other issues).
Barack Obama has been relatively honest (far more than any other politician playing at his level), and he, unlike Hillary Clinton, understands the power of words- a power that Ronald Reagan had, a power that JFK and RFK and MLK had, a power that FDR had, a power that Abraham Lincoln had. He understands, unlike Clinton, that this race isn't about hammering legislative defeats down the throats of the Republicans, it's not about experience, which will be more than available to the President an any event- it's about the ELECTORATE.
Hillary Clinton campaigns off "beating the Republicans". How does she expect to work the legislative miracles she promises by yelling Fight, fight, fight!? If she wants to build a working relationship with these people- and she'll have to-, she had better stop the "battle" rhetoric. (Arguably, that applies even more to John Edwards than her, but it's a valid criticism). This obvious and blatant partisanship will alienate conservatives and right-leaning moderates, and unite the Republican machine against her. In any case, it's clear from the results of the 2006 election and the weak Congress that's followed that the Republicans are going to stall the Democrats for as long as possible, possibly hoping to make the liberal movement look ineffective or inefficient. Screaming "I have experience and I can fight" won't help one bit"

On the other hand, Obama knows precisely what to do with that. He'll get as many Republicans, Independents, and so on supporting him as possible. He'll energize the Democratic base- in turn energizing the Democratic congressmen, some of whom are as much to blame for the weak Congress as the Republicans- and get a united, cohesive movement of support behind him. It'll be much harder for Republicans to stall and hold out when the Government is again a symbol for hope and unity, and when the Democrats are seen as being civil and classy and Republicans are viewed refusing bipartisanship and cooperation.

How do we know this isn't just a fairy tale, to use President Clinton's words? Easy. He's already done it. Record turnout in Iowa, towns running out of Democratic ballots in New Hampshire (where Obama only narrowly lost), the fact that Republicans are terrified they're going to lose in SOUTH CAROLINA for the general election- much of this can be credited to Obama. His appeal to youth touches me in particular, and will help raise a new generation of millenium progressives.
Others on this site have already mentioned it- "Obama Republican" has a nice ring to it.

Matthew Weaver,

I wouldn't get too much in a tizzy about this endorsement. Those who want a poem filled with possibility are already going Obama's way. Those who want a solid, well-reasoned essay are already going Clinton's way. For those who haven't chosen yet, I think there are enough people in the latter camp to put her over the top.

Obama has gotten the kid gloves treatment and Clinton has received some bare knuckled treatment from the media, but she still leads. More prose than poetry readers voting I suspect.

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I don't know about the importance of any newspaper endorsement, but this one does hit on one of the (many) reasons why I'd like to see Barack Obama become the dem nominee and next POTUS...

A democracy is only as strong as the citizens who are involved in it.

Our country has been gripped by an overwhelming apathy and cynicism towards politics for the better part of 40 years.

Barack has shown repeatedly that he inspires people (especially young people) to get inolved and pay attention. This can only be a good thing. When people stay involved and pay attention, politicians stay accountable...at least more accountable than lately.

I want our democracy back...Barack has brought in so many new voters and the excitement has gotten people feeling good about our democracy again.

All of this, plus he has great ideas, specific plans, foresight and judgement...and he has actually read the Consititution. Bonus...

If you want poetry, here's some poetry from a poster named Piper at taylormarsh.com

There once was a man named Barack,
And everyone thought he could rock,
But then came Super Tuesday,
It was quite a news day,
Because Hillary had just cleaned his clock.

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Hillary cast a "well reasoned" vote to let Bush attack Iraq, and she recently cast another "well reasoned' vote to do the same to Iran. Get real. Obama was the one who did the well reasoned thing, and came out against the stupid idea of invading Iraq.

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bluepuppy, that is simply beautiful. I will be sure to quote it back to you if Hillary loses.

Test.

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It's startling that readers are accusing the LA Times of racism based on its Obama endorsement. US hegemony has allowed Americans and their leaders to act with astounding disregard for other perspectives. On many occasions, it's unintended. After all, when you have the biggest voice, it's hard to hear those that are quieter. White males have led and have symbolized this dominance since the birth of this country. Obama's non-white countenance undermines the dominance that white males symbolize, not white men themselves. Of course he isn't qualified simply because he is not white. But everything that he is, including his race, gives him a unique perspective. He's proven that he's different and inspiring and arresting and intelligent. Before jumping to the conclusion that he's just another corrupt American President, those around the world might pause for just one moment because he looks different other Presidents. It's no fault of John Edwards or John McCain that they will be judged differently just because they are white. But America has itself created this circumstance.

Oh my bleeping God,

Putting a black face in the White House that's hung around Moslems will defuse anti-American passion?

So instead of hating us for our freedom or our lately screwed up policies, they hate us for our white faces and our lack of kindergarten face time with their religion? So Republicans were right after all?

"He brings with him deep knowledge of foreign relations", as summarized by 3 years in the Senate working on old Russian warheads with Lugar & thinking it best to let Pakistan clean up its mess on its own. I can only imagine the LA Times' contempt if Hillary had chaired a subcommitte on European Affairs that didn't meet for a year. You know, I'm willing to play friendly and kind of forget it, but then the LA Times brings it up as a selling point?

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2007/12/29/obama_europe/

Desider

test

Well-written, thoughtful endorsement.

Kudos to the Times.

It's is startling to me that readers are accusing The LA Times of racism based on its endorsement of Obama. US hegemony has allowed Americans and their leaders an astounding disregard for non-US perspectives in its foreign policy. I'm not asserting that the US is an evil empire; after all, it's difficult to hear quieter voices when your own is loud and powerful. Whatever the intention, this disregard exists, and white males are the symbol of this dominance. Obama's countenance undermines the symbolism of American domination, not white males themselves. Everything about Obama--including his race--gives him a unique perspective, at least one quite different from George Bush. He knows what it's like to see things from a non-American perspective. He has shown an ability to engage, arouse and inspire. And it's up to him to use his perspective and talents to become the leader that we need. Those around the world who are impassioned against the US will pause, for just a moment, simply because he is not white. This fact is not necessarily fair, but the US itself has helped to create this situation. The LA Times is not racist for pointing this out.

This is an amusing endorsement at least. The author's endorsement gives the reason in a nutshell why the argument that Obama will attract significant numbers of disillusioned Republicans is a fallacy.

Republicans tend to be crunchy people. If you ask Republicans if they would want a president who is like a poem with limitless possibilities or a president who is like a solid, well-reasoned essay, I think very few would choose the former.

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Desider, I think you're oversimplifying the LA Times point somewhat; they're not saying that his ancestry and history are his only foreign policy selling points. That said, I agree with you that they do present the argument rather simplistically in the endorsement.

I would represent it slightly differently. After GW, it's critical that the U.S. present a more friendly face to the world. Like it or not, people respond to stories and archetypes. As a drawling Texan, GW perfectly fit the world's preconception of an imperialist American cowboy. I think he even played it up intentionally for an international audience. Obama is the exact opposite. He's a modern, erudite, multi-ethnic new American. That will have innate appeal to the international crowd, Europeans and Middle Easterners alike.

But more importantly, he's charming. Europeans in particular love him. Charming presidents, like Kennedy, Bill Clinton, and even Reagan, have a lot more success in international diplomacy. There is no political incentive for foreign leaders to work with GW b/c with rare exceptions, foreign citizens hate him. Obama seems to be adored, and so foreign leaders will be incentivized to work with him.

Foreigners of course like Hillary Clinton much more than Bush, but I'd be shocked to see foreign crowds flock to her the way they did to Bill and would do to Obama.

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Desider, I think you're oversimplifying the LA Times point somewhat; they're not saying that his ancestry and history are his only foreign policy selling points. That said, I agree with you that they do present the argument rather simplistically in the endorsement.

I would represent it slightly differently. After GW, it's critical that the U.S. present a more friendly face to the world. Like it or not, people respond to stories and archetypes. As a drawling Texan, GW perfectly fit the world's preconception of an imperialist American cowboy. I think he even played it up intentionally for an international audience. Obama is the exact opposite. He's a modern, erudite, multi-ethnic new American. That will have innate appeal to the international crowd, Europeans and Middle Easterners alike.

But more importantly, he's charming. Europeans in particular love him. Charming presidents, like Kennedy, Bill Clinton, and even Reagan, have a lot more success in international diplomacy. There is no political incentive for foreign leaders to work with GW b/c with rare exceptions, foreign citizens hate him. Obama seems to be adored, and so foreign leaders will be incentivized to work with him.

Foreigners of course like Hillary Clinton much more than Bush, but I'd be shocked to see foreign crowds flock to her the way they did to Bill and would do to Obama.

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Desider, I think you're oversimplifying the LA Times point somewhat; they're not saying that his ancestry and history are his only foreign policy selling points. That said, I agree with you that they do present the argument rather simplistically in the endorsement.

I would represent it slightly differently. After GW, it's critical that the U.S. present a more friendly face to the world. Like it or not, people respond to stories and archetypes. As a drawling Texan, GW perfectly fit the world's preconception of an imperialist American cowboy. I think he even played it up intentionally for an international audience. Obama is the exact opposite. He's a modern, erudite, multi-ethnic new American. That will have innate appeal to the international crowd, Europeans and Middle Easterners alike.

But more importantly, he's charming. Europeans in particular love him. Charming presidents, like Kennedy, Bill Clinton, and even Reagan, have a lot more success in international diplomacy. There is no political incentive for foreign leaders to work with GW b/c with rare exceptions, foreign citizens hate him. Obama seems to be adored, and so foreign leaders will be incentivized to work with him.

Foreigners of course like Hillary Clinton much more than Bush, but I'd be shocked to see foreign crowds flock to her the way they did to Bill and would do to Obama.

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Desider, I think you're oversimplifying the LA Times point somewhat; they're not saying that his ancestry and history are his only foreign policy selling points. That said, I agree with you that they do present the argument rather simplistically in the endorsement.

I would represent it slightly differently. After GW, it's critical that the U.S. present a more friendly face to the world. Like it or not, people respond to stories and archetypes. As a drawling Texan, GW perfectly fit the world's preconception of an imperialist American cowboy. I think he even played it up intentionally for an international audience. Obama is the exact opposite. He's a modern, erudite, multi-ethnic new American. That will have innate appeal to the international crowd, Europeans and Middle Easterners alike.

But more importantly, he's charming. Europeans in particular love him. Charming presidents, like Kennedy, Bill Clinton, and even Reagan, have a lot more success in international diplomacy. There is no political incentive for foreign leaders to work with GW b/c with rare exceptions, foreign citizens hate him. Obama seems to be adored, and so foreign leaders will be incentivized to work with him.

Foreigners of course like Hillary Clinton much more than Bush, but I'd be shocked to see foreign crowds flock to her the way they did to Bill and would do to Obama.

I find it sad and scary that so many are falling for this obama is god thing.. it's like reliving Bush in 2000 all over again.

none of you research anything about the guy, sadly.. he's been in washington 1 yr (then 1 yr campaigning).. jesus people wake up !

way too many details to post that i found at this blog :

http://www.populistindependent.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=773&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


sad that no one get's it, very sad..

http://politicaldiscontent.blogspot.com

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Desider, I think you're oversimplifying the LA Times point somewhat; they're not saying that his ancestry and history are his only foreign policy selling points. That said, I agree with you that they do present the argument rather simplistically in the endorsement.

I would represent it slightly differently. After GW, it's critical that the U.S. present a more friendly face to the world. Like it or not, people respond to stories and archetypes. As a drawling Texan, GW perfectly fit the world's preconception of an imperialist American cowboy. I think he even played it up intentionally for an international audience. Obama is the exact opposite. He's a modern, erudite, multi-ethnic new American. That will have innate appeal to the international crowd, Europeans and Middle Easterners alike.

But more importantly, he's charming. Europeans in particular love him. Charming presidents, like Kennedy, Bill Clinton, and even Reagan, have a lot more success in international diplomacy. There is no political incentive for foreign leaders to work with GW b/c with rare exceptions, foreign citizens hate him. Obama seems to be adored, and so foreign leaders will be incentivized to work with him.

Foreigners of course like Hillary Clinton much more than Bush, but I'd be shocked to see foreign crowds flock to her the way they did to Bill and would do to Obama.

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These bugs are driving me crazy. My comments work less than half the time.

So, only those who endorse Hillary are doing the right thing, is that what you are claiming. If Hillary had gotten the LA Times endorsement you would have been bragging about it. Those sour grapes are giving you a sour disposition.

The old site was far superior to the mess you have now. Restore the old one, and go back and fix this crappy new software, and do not even try to install it until after the General Election. I am not going to keep on trying to fight this defective software just to post a comment. If you do not solve it soon, you will lose most of your readers and contributers to other sites, and once they are gone, most of them will never return. Go back to what was working far better than this nightmare.

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As a software developer, I've got to agree. I'm sure that you're developers are working hard, but they really screwed up. The changes were clearly not tested properly before they were released. And the timing, just before super tuesday, was abysmal.

I can't even keep the main TPM page open because some javascript function is eating up all my cpu.

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I endorse Obama too. But tpm is making it hard.

TheraP

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Give up, since it isn't an endorsement that favors their precious queen they will try to distort it and attack it in any way possible. Yes, it was a well-reasoned endorsement, and spot on. If I have learned anything by now it is that it is pointless to try to reason with these people, especially BluePuppy, who is perhaps the most shamelessly zombified of all of them.

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For those who haven't read it, here's Hillary's floor speech on the AUMF:
http://clinton.senate.gov/news/statements/details.cfm?id=233783

It's hard to read it and come away with the idea that she was deluded about Iraq or that she was encouraging Bush to go to war or believed that war was the obvious conclusion for this vote. Someone at DailyKos looks at the issues as well as surmises that the promises from Rice and others that they would push diplomacy as most convincing - especially since Hillary says it herself at the time, and notes the isolation and removal of Milosevic by his own people as a much better template to follow, and warns of the precedent of unilateral action by others (China, Russia, India) in removing leaders they disagreed with.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/1/15738/00109/33/447441

Someone at realdemmoderate notes that:

While the AUMF against Iraq did authorize the use of force, it did so by requiring that Bush show to Congress that:

“reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq”

http://realdemmoderate.wordpress.com/2007/12/05/why-clinton-wasnt-wrong-on-kyl-lieberman/

Considering that it took Bush 5 months to go to war, only after inspections resumed and Hussein did indeed play some non-cooperation games as vouched by Blix (argue as you want whether this was worth going to war, but the point was he would stop stalling and blocking) it was not a slam dunk vote.

What's worse is that Obama declared in his brave 2002 speech that Hussein was absolutely no direct danger to the US or its allies, even after 4 years of no inspections, implications of bio and chemical weapons in intelligence report, 9/11 and anthrax scare (would like to know who was behind that anthrax), etc. If guys with box cutters could bring down the towers, someone sponsored by Hussein with $10 billion/year of oil-for-food money a year could conceivably have a chance of hurting us, no? So in the end, Obama will get labeled as someone who doesn't take security very seriously, certainly not a good position in 2002 and not that great in 2008.

Desider

Isn't LA Times owned by Chicage Chronicle?

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test post

TheraP

Okay, look, other papers endorse Obama, no problem. This particular endorsement is puerile and misleading. The endorsement doesn't imply racism - it simply is, and in a dangerous way - that somehow electing a black leader will make Moslems like us more. First, someone please research the history of Islam and slavery. Second, I don't think US blacks are any more likely to share values with Saudi or Pakistani clerics than US whites are. (Sorry, Indonesian Moslems are quite different from Middle Eastern Moslems for one).

Again, tell me Obama's foreign policy experience worth crowing about aside from 6-10 in Indonesia? I'm pretty sure I understand Moslems about as well from reading Middle Eastern literature and history and trying to learn Arabic and Turkish and talking to lots of North Africans and hanging out in Lebanese restaurants as a college student. Of course Hillary's 80 state visits or whatever is completely marginalized in the process - guess she shouldn't have been active in campus politics and children's advocacy and instead should have just bummed around Indonesia for a few years.

Desider

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As someone who loves words - prose and poetry - I'm enjoying this election tremendously, these endorsements, his speeches... It’s very fitting as I became an Obama fan as a reader of his book, before he ran for any office.

Genghis, "he seems to be adored" is certainly up there with "he'd be nice to have a beer with". We're not electing a prom queen. We've got serious business to do. Sure, if someone can negotiate our position better and make good alliances, fine. Now what gives us the idea that Obama can really do that? Some find him inspirational, others find him smug and dry. I don't know what Europeans you've polled, but in general Europeans like us better when we're saving them and not planting nukes on their soil and not forcing genetically modified food down
their throats. All else is simply window dressing. Yeah, if you want to get along with France and German don't incessantly insult them. Aside from that, other countries suck up to the US, and with only a slight bit of respectful response, the US president will get along with anyone. Even Nixon.

By the way, Hillary was discussing the AUMF with Tony Blair - who was Obama discussing it with?

Desider

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I endorse Obama as well. Si se peude.

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Hillary was discussing the AUMF with Tony Blair

and we know how well that turned out

I suppose I should also bring up the painful fact that invading Iraq wasn't near the problem of not leaving quickly.

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Indeed they are not a hairsbreadth apart in policy, at least not where judgment over the wisdom of the war was concerned. Judgment over experience. We already have experience with Cheney.

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Desider, here's one article that talks about Europeans' fascination with Obama: http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4101774&page=1

Caveat: It's obviously unscientific and really only demonstrates that the European press loves him. Nonetheless, it's a great contrast with what the European press thinks of Bush.

I'm not going to argue that Obama has anywhere near the foreign policy experience of Clinton, nor do I discount that fact, but I do believe that Obama's international appeal is a true advantage.

"He'd be nice to have a beer with" is derogatory characterization of charisma, and I think that you underestimate this quality, which Obama has and in which Clinton is deficient. Charisma affects popularity which affects the ability to get things done, both domestically and internationally. A domestically popular President can put more pressure on congressional opponents, and an internationally popular President can put more pressure on foreign leaders.

Now charisma is certainly not the only factor and not even the chief factor in determining popularity. A charismatic leader who makes disastrous decisions will ultimately be hated, as amply demonstrated by GW himself (who isn't even that charismatic). But a charismatic leader will
endure the problems and downturns more effectively than an uncharismatic leader. Contrast Reagan, the "teflon president", with Bush I. Bill Clinton retained his popularity amid the Lewinsky scandal, in part b/c the economy was doing well, but in part b/c people just like the guy. I fear that if Hillary becomes President, anything that goes wrong will fall on her head. If that happens, Republicans, who will be reluctant to work with her in the first place because their constituents hate her, will score big time with the voters by sticking it to her. Even Democrats won't fall in line behind her if voters are unhappy with her.

I know I'm digressing into domestic politics, but I think that the same calculus applies internationally. If the US president is popular abroad, foreign leaders will be more likely to court the popular will by going go along with him or her. And if not, they will score points by sticking it to the US imperialists.

As to your point that other counties will "suck up to the US", that's Cheney-speak. It might have been true during the cold war when they were dependent on us, but it hasn't been the case for over a decade. Every foreign leader (with the exception of Sarkozy) who has gone along with us has paid for it in popularity: Blair, Howard, Musharraf, Aznar, Fox. Those that have stuck it to us have gotten boosts: Zapatero, Shroeder, Chavez.

Much of this is Iraq, and much of this GW, but there is also a predisposition to view us as arrogant imperialists. Because of his story and his charisma, Barack is in much better position than Hillary to counter this tendency.

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Most of us Los Angelenos long ago wrote off the Los Angeles Times (and especially its editorial board) as little more than a joke.

It's also useful to note the Times' recent owners (both Tribune Broadcasting and it's new owner) are Chicago-based operations.

What's more relevant are the support of La Opinion and the entire political structure - from city hall to south central (black Los Angeles).

Clinton has a lock on California.

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Desider, here's one article that talks about Europeans' fascination with Obama: http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4101774&page=1

Caveat: It's obviously unscientific and really only demonstrates that the European press loves him. Nonetheless, it's a great contrast with what the European press thinks of Bush.

I'm not going to argue that Obama has anywhere near the foreign policy experience of Clinton, nor do I discount that fact, but I do believe that Obama's international appeal is a true advantage.

"He'd be nice to have a beer with" is derogatory characterization of charisma, and I think that you underestimate this quality, which Obama has and in which Clinton is deficient. Charisma affects popularity which affects the ability to get things done, both domestically and internationally. A domestically popular President can put more pressure on congressional opponents, and an internationally popular President can put more pressure on foreign leaders.

Now charisma is certainly not the only factor and not even the chief factor in determining popularity. A charismatic leader who makes disastrous decisions will ultimately be hated, as amply demonstrated by GW himself (who isn't even that charismatic). But a charismatic leader will
endure the problems and downturns more effectively than an uncharismatic leader. Contrast Reagan, the "teflon president", with Bush I. Bill Clinton retained his popularity amid the Lewinsky scandal, in part b/c the economy was doing well, but in part b/c people just like the guy. I fear that if Hillary becomes President, anything that goes wrong will fall on her head. If that happens, Republicans, who will be reluctant to work with her in the first place because their constituents hate her, will score big time with the voters by sticking it to her. Even Democrats won't fall in line behind her if voters are unhappy with her.

I know I'm digressing into domestic politics, but I think that the same calculus applies internationally. If the US president is popular abroad, foreign leaders will be more likely to court the popular will by going go along with him or her. And if not, they will score points by sticking it to the US imperialists.

As to your point that other counties will "suck up to the US", that's Cheney-speak. It might have been true during the cold war when they were dependent on us, but it hasn't been the case for over a decade. Every foreign leader (with the exception of Sarkozy) who has gone along with us has paid for it in popularity: Blair, Howard, Musharraf, Aznar, Fox. Those that have stuck it to us have gotten boosts: Zapatero, Shroeder, Chavez.

Much of this is Iraq, and much of this GW, but there is also a predisposition to view us as arrogant imperialists. Because of his story and his charisma, Barack is in much better position than Hillary to counter this tendency.

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Desider, here's one article that talks about Europeans' fascination with Obama: http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4101774&page=1

Caveat: It's obviously unscientific and really only demonstrates that the European press loves him. Nonetheless, it's a great contrast with what the European press thinks of Bush.

I'm not going to argue that Obama has anywhere near the foreign policy experience of Clinton, nor do I discount that fact, but I do believe that Obama's international appeal is a true advantage.

"He'd be nice to have a beer with" is derogatory characterization of charisma, and I think that you underestimate this quality, which Obama has and in which Clinton is deficient. Charisma affects popularity which affects the ability to get things done, both domestically and internationally. A domestically popular President can put more pressure on congressional opponents, and an internationally popular President can put more pressure on foreign leaders.

Now charisma is certainly not the only factor and not even the chief factor in determining popularity. A charismatic leader who makes disastrous decisions will ultimately be hated, as amply demonstrated by GW himself (who isn't even that charismatic). But a charismatic leader will
endure the problems and downturns more effectively than an uncharismatic leader. Contrast Reagan, the "teflon president", with Bush I. Bill Clinton retained his popularity amid the Lewinsky scandal, in part b/c the economy was doing well, but in part b/c people just like the guy. I fear that if Hillary becomes President, anything that goes wrong will fall on her head. If that happens, Republicans, who will be reluctant to work with her in the first place because their constituents hate her, will score big time with the voters by sticking it to her. Even Democrats won't fall in line behind her if voters are unhappy with her.

I know I'm digressing into domestic politics, but I think that the same calculus applies internationally. If the US president is popular abroad, foreign leaders will be more likely to court the popular will by going go along with him or her. And if not, they will score points by sticking it to the US imperialists.

As to your point that other counties will "suck up to the US", that's Cheney-speak. It might have been true during the cold war when they were dependent on us, but it hasn't been the case for over a decade. Every foreign leader (with the exception of Sarkozy) who has gone along with us has paid for it in popularity: Blair, Howard, Musharraf, Aznar, Fox. Those that have stuck it to us have gotten boosts: Zapatero, Shroeder, Chavez.

Much of this is Iraq, and much of this GW, but there is also a predisposition to view us as arrogant imperialists. Because of his story and his charisma, Barack is in much better position than Hillary to counter this tendency.

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Bobby Kennedy, Jr. is incredibly solid on the environment. I've always thought Bobby was the best of the Kennedys.

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Genghis,

Most of the article is just saying, "Hey, new kid on block, who is he?" No one knows - does that make him "popular"? Your charisma theory is disturbing. The charismatic Reagan made many more mistakes than the non-charismatic Bush. But the media forgives the charismatic guy. Bush is an odd stats point though - no politician I can think of went out of their way to piss of the rest of the world or dropped friends so lightly as Bush has.

Anyway, beware the allure of charm and grandeur until you know it actually exists. All those girlfriends that once seemed so special....

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Sorry. Is this working yet?

Both Hillary's and Obama's health insurance plans suck, by the way. Single payer, or give it up.

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Test post.

...here's hoping it's working finally.

Desider,

I'd rather have a beer with Hillary Clinton anyway. She's actually supposed to be a lot of fun to hang with, from all reports. Barack Obama strikes me as just a little too stiff to make a very good drinking buddy.

Bluepuppy,

please don't infect this place with posts from taylormarsh.

there are a lot of people like me, who, upon reading that name, assume your an unhinged, rambling mess, too.

Shorter Matt Weaver: "Has anyone seen my white privilege?"

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Unnamed "guest" (afraid of using your own, real name?) writing about 'white privilege'. I do not think race has any role in choosing a candidate. Suggesting otherwise is patently racist.

By the way, for those waiting for Richardson's endorsement of Obama, well, don't hold your breath. I see reports that Bill Clinton and Bill Richardson are spending Sunday together in New Mexico watching the Super Bowl. I serious doubt Richardson would turn around and endorse Obama before or after such a visit reportedly between friends.

You know, I was just thinking about the first couple of years of another charismatic young President who had to learn on the job. In addition to aspirations, we got the Bay of Pigs, the Cuban Missile Crisis, the beginning of our involvement in Vietnam, the Diem assassination, the concept of an elite military force dedicated to suppressing insurgencies throughout the world, and Robert McNamara and the statistics of attrition. Meanwhile, he waited over two years to introduce the Civil Rights legislation he campaigned on and waited until 1963, when he was forced to confront George Wallace, to put the force of the federal government behind Civil Rights.

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Hmmm, don't know if I like the new format...u guys like the new format?

With respect to the LA Times editors--you have got the endorsement right, but the reasoning behind it very wrong—wrong enough that it might be a poisoned chalice.

It is wrong to suggest that Obama represents something due to his race. Beyond this, it is wrong to suggest that that type of "soft power" (with apologies to Joeseph Nye) is what is needed to win people over in the world that “hates” America. The anger in the world towards the unprincipled US foreign policy is much deeper than you imply, and therefore a mere face full of soft lines will not change it.

The correct reason to endorse Obama is for his intelligence and reasoning on not going to war with Iraq in the first place. This was not an accidental judgement, but one that was tempered by his experience as a Christian American boy growing up in Asia among Muslims. He is alone among US leaders who can genuinely separate Muslims from those who are of that faith, who happen to be terrorists. He is thus alone in being able to guide America away from an unwinnable war with a religion of over a billion people.

No American leader has ever felt the world up close and personal as has Obama. He might be lyrical in the iambic pentameter (if that explains his hesitancy in debate and soaring heights in speeches!), but his substance and solidity are obvious to see as they are grounded with life defining knowledge that the world, however poorer, is not America’s enemy.

Obama is a fortunate offer to the American public in these extremely troubled times. Even if Obama is has been blown to the canvass by virtual colonies of young bees, who feel something very different, I am not sure the mature American public or its elite know exactly why this is the person for the times.

Sincerely,

Jayantha Jayman
Research Assistant Professor
Institute of Global Cultural Policy
Binghamton University

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Billy, I think you get to the core difference between Obama supporters and Clinton supporters. Some of us are ready to gamble on greatness at the risk of failure. Others would rather play it safe with competence.

I really don't mean to imply any judgment in that comment. At this time in our history and in my life, I would rather throw the dice and aim high. I've never experienced a JFK or an FDR. I've never had a leader who has inspired me. I think that our nation has lost direction, that we need to find ourselves, and that we need a leader who can help us do that. But I respect people who feel that we can't afford to take that kind of risk right now, and I know that Obama carries more risk than Clinton.

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Billy, I think you get to the core difference between Obama supporters and Clinton supporters. Some of us are ready to gamble on greatness at the risk of failure. Others would rather play it safe with competence.

I really don't mean to imply any judgment in that comment. At this time in our history and in my life, I would rather throw the dice and aim high. I've never experienced a JFK or an FDR. I've never had a leader who has inspired me. I think that our nation has lost direction, that we need to find ourselves, and that we need a leader who can help us do that. But I respect people who feel that we can't afford to take that kind of risk right now, and I know that Obama carries more risk than Clinton.

how about the media not reporting the dener post endorsing HRC........im 67 years old and have never seen the bias against her in all the years ive been voting ,,,,,and the amazing thing is shes still ahead

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Odinga says Obama is his cousin - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7176683.stm

Kenyan opposition leader Raila Odinga has said he is a cousin of US presidential hopeful Barack Obama.

Mr Odinga told the BBC's The World Today that Senator Obama's father was his maternal uncle.

Mr Obama's father - a Kenyan also called Barack - met and married his American mother when they were students at the university of Hawaii.

Mr Obama has previously been identified as a distant cousin of Vice-President Dick Cheney.

Mr Obama's father came from the same Luo community as Mr Odinga.

The Kenyan leader made the statement in an interview in which he discussed foreign interest in the political turmoil in his country.

He said Mr Obama had on Monday taken time out of campaigning for the New Hampshire primary to call him twice, to express his concern, and to say that he would also be calling Mr Kibaki.

Mr Obama's parents separated when he was two and later divorced.

His mother subsequently married an Indonesian, and the young Barack lived in Jakarta for some years before returning to the United States.

He saw almost nothing of his birth father, who moved back to Kenya and later died in a car crash.

But he entitled his autobiography Dreams from my Father.

Kenyan opposition leader Raila Odinga has said he is a cousin of US presidential hopeful Barack Obama.

Mr Odinga told the BBC's The World Today that Senator Obama's father was his maternal uncle.

Mr Obama's father - a Kenyan also called Barack - met and married his American mother when they were students at the university of Hawaii.

Mr Obama has previously been identified as a distant cousin of Vice-President Dick Cheney.

Mr Obama's father came from the same Luo community as Mr Odinga.

The Kenyan leader made the statement in an interview in which he discussed foreign interest in the political turmoil in his country.

He said Mr Obama had on Monday taken time out of campaigning for the New Hampshire primary to call him twice, to express his concern, and to say that he would also be calling Mr Kibaki.

Mr Obama's parents separated when he was two and later divorced.

His mother subsequently married an Indonesian, and the young Barack lived in Jakarta for some years before returning to the United States.

He saw almost nothing of his birth father, who moved back to Kenya and later died in a car crash.

But he entitled his autobiography Dreams from my Father.

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The underreporting of Denver Post endorsement also pisses me off big time. Denver is a small city compared to LA butis not Denver the host city? Why no reporting?

Lorna Brett Howard's endorsement may be even more powerful:

http://acropolisreview.com/2008/01/why-lorna-switched-from-clinton-to.html

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The underreporting of Denver Post endorsement also pisses me off big time. Denver is a small city compared to LA butis not Denver the host city? Why no reporting?

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Those Democrats who would rather vote Republican than vote for Hillary are in essence saying that PNAC style foreign policy would get free reign and place Iran in the targeting computer. Policy wise, Clinton and Obama are very close, so an angry protest vote for Republican philosophies over progressive ones would be not just a repudiation of Clinton, but a rejection of the core principles that Obama himself stands for. I bet Obama would vote for Hillary over McCain, the Falwell nad hugger.
In other words, it would be stupid.

My earlier post got recorded as guest. While normally I would leave it be, the point of it was an objection to another unidentified post. (Maybe the poster had same problem I had keeping logged in to submit a post?) My post:

Unnamed "guest" (afraid of using your own, real name?) writing about 'white privilege'. I do not think race has any role in choosing a candidate. Suggesting otherwise is patently racist.

By the way, for those waiting for Richardson's endorsement of Obama, well, don't hold your breath. I see reports that Bill Clinton and Bill Richardson are spending Sunday together in New Mexico watching the Super Bowl. I serious doubt Richardson would turn around and endorse Obama before or after such a visit reportedly between friends.

I read a succinct summary from a Pub the other day regarding the Democratic dilemma:

Voting for Clinton is playing not to lose.

Voting for Obama is playing to win.

The idea that there's some risk with Obama is just a fearmongering talking point from the Clintons.

If anything, there's more risk with Clinton based on her foreign policy record and statements.

Hi. I have posted here before the change, as Lis. Now I'm LisB but at least I get to show you my picture. Sorry it's not as cute as Kermit, nor as important as JFK, but I'm all I got.

I have to say, I have believed in Obama for over a year now, and when I joined here just a few months ago I was as anti-Hillary as a person can be without becoming rabid.

That being said, Hillary won a bit of my respect this week, between muzzling her husband, and getting the tone right last night in the debate with Barack at the Kodak Theater.

I'm still for Obama 100%, but I will no longer post cruel things about Hillary just to make my point. We need to stay united.

And, uh.....you all need to add your pictures to your usernames. Pronto.

The times they are a-changing -- so get with the program.

Peace,
Lis

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(FYI--BELOW IS THE LETTER I SENT TO THE LA TIMES AFTER READING THEIR EDITORIAL)

Poisoned Chalice for Obama?

With all due respect to the LA Times editors--you may have got the endorsement right, but some of the reasoning behind it is at best unclear--unclear enough that that it might be a poisoned chalice for Senator Obama.

It is wrong to suggest that Obama represents something due to his race to the world. Beyond this, it is wrong to suggest that that type of "soft power" (with apologies to Joseph Nye) is what is needed to win people over in the world that “hates” America. The anger in the world towards unprincipled US foreign policy is much deeper than is implied in the LA Times endorsement. Mere soft lines on a powerful face, or its invitingly familiar colour, will not change how the US is perceived abroad.

Yes, the correct reason to endorse Obama is for his intelligence and reasoning in avoiding war with Iraq in the first place. His was not an accidental judgement, but one that was tempered by experience as a Christian American boy growing up in Asia among Muslims: thse are life forming experiences. Therefore, after humanising Muslims, Obama could not have joined the stampede to support the Bush Doctrine. Futher more, when we do consider his Kenyan heritage, he could not have stayed on the side lines, as did the Clintons when Canadian General Roméo Dallaire requested a few thousand soldiers to stop the genocide in Rwanda.

The Clinton's might have helped to solve Northern Ireland, as they were connected to the Emerald Island. In terms of today's problems, Obama is the only connection to the people whom too many Americans today think are their enemy. Crucially, he is alone among US leaders, who can genuinely separate Muslims from those who are of that faith, who happen to be terrorists. Obama is thus alone in being able to guide America away from a war that is widely perceived as being against a religion.

No American leader has ever felt the world up close and personal as has Obama. He might be lyrical in the iambic pentameter, however his substance and solidity are obvious to see, grounded as they are with life defining knowledge that the world, however much poorer than America, and however much less free than Americans, is not America’s enemy. Obama knows the world wants economic development and it wants the freedoms American are taking for granted.

Some might see Obama as a providential offer on every count to a God fearing American public in these extremely troubled times. Nonetheless, even if Obama has been plastered over the Rockwellian canvass in Iowa by virtual colonies of young bees, who instinctively feel something very different about this man, I am not sure the more mature American public or its elite know exactly why this person for these times, as one might say the American mind was closed.

Jayantha Jayman
Research Assistant Professor
Institute of Global Cultural Studies
Binghamton University

Let me get this straight: you'd vote for John "100 years" McCain over Obama just to teach the LA Times a lesson about racism?!?. Congratulations, you just made 2000 Florida Nader voters seem reasonable.

Hello Ghenghis,

I'd like to comment about that so-called European fascination with Obama.

There were only two correct pieces of information in it. 1) Yes, the world is watching and PRAYING that another Republican won't be put in office.

2) The German editor said, "We want to know more about Obama." 'wanting to know more' does not mean 'enthralled'. The rest of the article is just spin.

I read the French and British press regularly and I can tell you with certainty that Europeans are not "thrilled" with the sudden rise of Obama. First of all, let's make the very CRUCIAL distinction between media fascination (what's new and unknown sells) and the average European reaction. Europeans tend to be less naive about the political process and the media's ability to manipulate voters...in France, we got stuck with the right-wing Sarkozy (whose popularity is already plunging in the polls after only months in office) because the Socialist party (which usually puts up a very strong challenge to the center right) had nominated an attractive, photogenic (but hopelessly inexperienced) woman...Segolène Royale. Her candidacy seemed to come out of nowhere...she was the media's darling before the runoff election and could do no wrong...it wasn't until after she secured the Socialist's party nomination that the media dogs began tearing her to tiny little pieces...and it all fell apart.

Just yesterday, I was questioned by a group of French civil servants (who traditionally lean to the left politically) about the American elections. Above all else, they seemed puzzled. Who is this fellow Obama? and why on earth would Americans seem so eager to dump a candidate who has the intelligence and the experience to handle the job of president? In their eyes, it's just too big a gamble. Of course, Europeans haven't been exposed to the RELENTLESS Hillary bashing that the American public has, but they understand just how high the stakes are for the entire world.

Yes, Obama is a likeable candidate. Yes, he's politically correct. Yes, he's a fresh face and has lots of charisma. All this will last about for about 3 weeks if he becomes the nominee. Don't get me wrong. His heart and head is in the right place, but he will lose against McCain...CNN, MSNBC, Time Warner and associates will see to it. I thought that the "Swiftboat Veterans against Kerry" debacle would have taught us something about how the game is played (and won).


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Well, alot of these posts from the clinton cult are really silly. Mattie I really think that you would like it alot better at hillaryis44.org. Your posts make little sense and are usually just spewing venomous opinion with little basis in reality. Also, based on these posts, I guess its mccain in 08, because according to clinton people obama has no chance and according to reality the clintons will get slaughtered. So I guess its mccain in 08.

That all being said, in case you clinton cult people come back and missed this endorsement, this is a must read. Talk about cross-over appeal of obama.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/01/AR2008020102621.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Test post

The LA Times was nice for Obama...will it turn the tide in Cal....I think it's too little too late.
Am I still off base with Clinton/Obama in 08 with a side order of Edwards for AG ?

Today in Minneapolis where it is very, very, very cold, 20,000 people are going to drive downtown - it's Saturday, so getting into town is a bit of a hassle, and parking is tough: the ramps are expensive - to fill Target Center to hear Obama.
Tickets were gone in 90 minutes. They turned away thousands who tried to get them by going online. I was one of them. I missed out. I'm going downtown anyway, to stand outside, and be counted.
Nothing like this has even been seen before in Minnesota. And Minnesota is very, very, very white - even when it's not snowing.

The only thing that matters in this democratic primary is electability since either candidate is superior to whom ever the republicans nominate. It is true that racism, some hypothetical scandal yet to be discovered, campaign blunders, or an unlikely shift toward national yearning for more republicanism could mean Obama would lose in the fall. None of these possibilities are predictable and certainly not inevitable, and the racial issue could just as well work in his favor - let's hope so. Sen. Clinton on the other hand is a known quantity with high negatives. It is more than likely that her candidacy will unify the otherwise dispirited republicans and draw them to the polls, while at the same time suppressing the potential democratic vote, especially among blacks. While she will draw some votes from independent women, many will be turned off by the specter of Bill living in the White House again, only this time with a lot of free time on his hands. The possibilities of that fact will repulse many in a visceral way, and the republicans will make sure that image is clear in voter's minds.

Putting aside the fellow posters here with hair- trigger "racist" antennae, identity politics for the 2 largest groups of disenfranchised voters in this nation and how that impacts this election, are positives, not negatives. It is a good thing that females and blacks have heightened interest and pride in our candidates and it is sad that one group will probably be at least a little disappointed eventually. However, if one surveys the politics of the last quarter century, it is clear that blacks are a more disenfranchised and marginalized population than women, with less clear signs of progress toward equality, and in greater need of some positive role models. There are plenty of black sheriffs and councilman and mayors, but virtually no national figures. Obama is the only black senator presently serving and if memory serves me well, the only one since Sen. Braun and then Mass.s Sen. Brooks back in the early seventies. The number of women governors and senators is relatively large and growing - about time. In short, while women are rightly inspired by the possibilities of Sen. Clinton's election and how that will afffet their and our daughter's, imagine the impact of a black president on the opening of hope for young and old black men and women. I don't know how many have seen or heard Michelle Obama, ut she is very impressive and her presence in the White House would be a source of pride for all Americans , but especially those in the black community. Maybe she will run in 2016 when the girls will be in their teens!

testing. Wow..
your web designer is not so talented.

Semi-off topic note about how Obama is tayloring his pitch to Latinos on Super Tuesday:


Economics 101 says that when the supply of anything goes up, its price goes down. This applies to the increase in the supply of unskilled labor created by immigration – legal or otherwise - but Obama chose to pander to Latinos in the LA debates despite having previously recognized this aspect of the immigration problem in his second book.

Obama’s pandering position in the CNN debate held that attributing inner-city unemployment, to immigrants, is a case of scapegoating that “ I do not believe in, I do not subscribe to.”


But in his second book (pg 263) Obama recognized that “If this huge influx of mostly low-skill workers provides some benefits to the economy as a whole – especially by keeping our workforce young, in contrast to an increasingly geriatric Europe and Japan – it also threatens to depress further the wages of blue-collar Americans and put strains on an already overburdened safety net.”


To put Obama’s current position in context here is an excerpt from the transcript from Thursday night's Democratic presidential debate between Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama sponsored by CNN, The Los Angles Times and Politico.


CUMMINGS: On immigration. The Republicans have had a pretty fierce debate over immigration. And it's now pretty clear that that's going to be an issue for you all, as well, not just in the general, but it's bubbled up in some of the primaries. And it's a divisive issue for you all, as it is for the Republicans. And that was pretty evident when we got a question through Politico.

This is from Kim Millman (ph) from Burnsville, Minnesota. And she says, "there's been no acknowledgement by any of the presidential candidates of the negative economic impact of immigration on the African-American community. How do you propose to address the high unemployment rates and the declining wages in the African-American community that are related to the flood of immigrant labor?"

Senator Obama, you want to go first on that? And it's for both of you.

OBAMA: Well, let me first of all say that I have worked on the streets of Chicago as an organizer with people who have been laid off from steel plants, black, white, Hispanic, Asian, and, you know, all of them are feeling economically insecure right now, and they have been for many years. Before the latest round of immigrants showed up, you had huge unemployment rates among African-American youth.

And, so, I think to suggest somehow that the problem that we're seeing in inner-city unemployment, for example, is attributable to immigrants, I think, is a case of scapegoating that I do not believe in, I do not subscribe to.

And here is how Obama dealt with the matter in his 2006 book pages 262-263:

By the time I returned from law school, though, the tensions between blacks and Latinos in Chicago had started to surface. Between 1990 and 2000, the Spanish -speaking population in Chicago rose by 38 percent, and with this surge in the population the Latino community was no longer content to serve as junior partner in any black-brown coalition. After Harold Washington died, a new cohort of Latino elected officials, affiliated with Richard M Daley and remnants of the old Chicago political machine, came onto the scene, men and women less interested in high-minded principles and rainbow coalitions than in translating growing political power into contracts and jobs. As black businesses and commercial strips struggled, Latino businesses thrived, helped in part by financial ties to home countries and by a customer base held captive by language barriers. Everywhere, it seemed, Mexican and Central American workers came to dominate low-wage work that had once gone to blacks – as waiters and busboys, as hotel maids and as bellmen — and made inroads in the construction trades that had long excluded black labor. Blacks began to grumble and feel threatened; they wondered if once again they were about to be passed over by those who’s just arrived.

I shouldn’t exaggerate the schism. Because both communities share a host of challenges, from soaring high school dropout rates to inadequate health insurance, blacks and Latinos continue to find common cause in their politics. As frustrated as blacks may get whenever they pass a construction site in a black neighborhood and see nothing but Mexican workers, I rarely hear them blame the workers themselves; usually they reserve their wrath for the contractors who hire them, When pressed many black will express a grudging admiration for Latino immigrants – for their strong work ethic and commitment to family, their willingness to start at the bottom and make the most of what little they have.

While there’s not denying that many black share the same anxieties as many whites about the wave of illegal immigration flooding our Southern border – a sense that what’s happening now is fundamentally different from what has gone on before. Not all those fears are irrational.. The number of immigrants added to the labor force every years is of a magnitude not seen in this country for over a century. If this huge influx of mostly low-skill workers provides some benefits tot he economy as a whole – especially by keeping our work for young, in contrast to an increasingly geriatric Europe and Japan – it also threatens to depress further the wages of blue-collar Americans and put strains on an already overburdened safety,

IMPORTANT ISSUE !!!
Hillary's Health Care Plan Would Create 47 Million 'Universal' Law Breakers !

BEWARE !!! Hillary's so-called 'Universal' Health Care Plan is to make it AGAINST THE LAW FOR ANYONE TO NOT BUY THEIR OWN HEALTH INSURANCE (LIKE AUTO INSURANCE)That's not health care....that's just a law (that's what mandate means) !!!!! Under Hillary's health care plan everyone who breaks her law and does not buy their own health coverage (if not offered through their job) would be fined and wages could be garnished. Also, everyone would have to prove that they already have health insurance (show an insurance policy) before they could get a new job if that new job does not offer coverage.If people could afford health care they would have it already! To make it a mandatory law will just make people who are unable to afford the coverage (could be $300-$400 per month/per person) afraid to go to the hospital when seriously ill in fear of getting caught breaking the law (without coverage). Then we'll end up with millions of people simply hiding the fact that they don't have coverage....instead of receiving the true health care they need. TERRIBLE !!! DON'T BE FOOLED AMERICA !!!!!

"All Americans Would be required by law to purchase health insurance" reports CBS News Chief White House correspondent Jim Axelrod.

PEOPLE ACROSS AMERICA NEED TO KNOW THIS ABOUT HILLARY'S PLAN. THE LAST THING THESE 47 MILLION PEOPLE NEED IS TO BE CALLED LAW BREAKERS BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO POOR TO AFFORD HEALTH CARE. AND A TAX CUT FOR LOW INCOME PEOPLE WILL NEVER COVER THE TRUE COST. PLEASE HELP SPREAD THE FACTS !!!

The media often refers to Hillary as Hillary Rodham Clinton.

I wonder if Obama's support would fall simply by adding his middle name in references to him: Barack Hussein Obama?

My thought is that yes, it would. I doubt Americans are ready for a president whose middle name is Hussein. But I bet many Americans (and maybe a lot of his supporters) don't even know what his middle name is.

Kid gloves treatment for Obama. The media really wants him to be the Democrat nominee.

"The media often refers to Hillary as Hillary Rodham Clinton.

I wonder if Obama's support would fall simply by adding his middle name in references to him: Barack Hussein Obama?"

Yes, they refer to her as 'Hillary Rodham Clinton'. Not 'Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton', her full name. Rodham is her maiden name.

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What's with 'guest'? First it's hahaha, Obama can't beat Hillary. Then it's Hillary's health care plan is terrible. Then it's both are good for different reasons followed by both are bad for different reasons?

I'm thinking multiple personality disorder.

It might be too late for this to work in favor of Obama, but La Opinión, the biggest Spanish-language daily in the Los Angeles area, has just come out in favor of Obama. English version here.

Maybe it's too soon....with only 3 days left it's hard to say too soon...the pools tend to lend me to believe especially the ones from Tenn/Mo/Ala/ that the Edwards flow is favoring Clinton. That being the case Tuesday is going to be a long day for the Obama team.

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Ted Kennedy may have endorsed Obama, but the Bobby Kennedy wing has endorsed Hillary.

Obama said that Hillary's people would endorse HIM if he were the nominee but that HIS people would NOT endorse HER.

How divided is that! And this is the candidate that's supposed to bring us all together? He's devisive, has been from the start.

And after that comment, if by some miracle, he IS the nominee, he will NOT get my vote, just because of that devisive, arrogant statement.

How dare he presume he'll get my vote??

Great Hillary Clinton rally going on right now in LA on C-Span!

Hillary has spent an awful lot of time the past couple days shoring up support in California. It's clear she's a bit worried.

It's also keeping her out of other places across the country that you know she would love to be hitting right now. Obama has put the pressure to the Clinton campaign.

It may mean something, it may not, but Obama is up by 4 points in the latest Zogby tracking poll in CA.

So yeah, it's safe to say that HRC is probably a little concerned about CA.

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