Hillary Wins New Jersey
MSNBC and Fox call Jersey for Hillary. Between the victory over Obama supporters Ted Kennedy and John Kerry, and this victory in a state that the Obama camp had hoped to steal out from under her, it needs to be said that it's shaping up as a good night for Hilllary. For now, anyway.
Separately, it's worth noting that the Kennedy endorsement wasn't just about Massachusetts -- it was about winning over liberals and Latinos nationwide.
Also, MSNBC just projected that Obama won Alabama. So things are in flux.
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Why is every post a Hillary headline with an Obama footnote?
February 5, 2008 9:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
every post isn't that. see the post about obama winning georgia? which was front paged for over an hour?
February 5, 2008 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's certainly not shaping up so badly as the early exit polls projected for Clinton. But I'd make the point that we really don't know who's winning yet - even as these states get called. If Obama managed to come within a few points of Clinton in NJ and MA, that'll tamp down her delegate margins there. Conversely, larger victories will increase them. And at the end of the day (or, perhaps I should say, late tomorrow when everything gets counted) this is all about the delegates.
So yes, winning individual states is nice. But both candidates are going to walk away with enough wins to remain viable. The key question is how many delegates they each draw - and no one's projecting that one yet.
February 5, 2008 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
IMHO the delegate count is going to be close. Maybe she'll open a lead to 100, and that will be very hard for him to close, and maybe not. But I think the real battle tonight was for the leadership of the Party, and she has the upper hand now. She got the good states. We may be seeing a new Democratic coalition forming. He could turn that around with a win in California. If he doesn't, there will be a long list she owes nada and a short list she owes a lot.
February 5, 2008 11:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
New Jersey's a bit disappointing, but again, it was a state where she had a very large lead, and a state that's right on her back door that she had hoped to dominate and mine a bunch of delegates from.
Barack has closed the gap enough in places like Jersey to pull a solid number of delegates. This will be an interesting night, with no clear winner coming out unless something really unexpected happens.
February 5, 2008 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with lafftaff02, by my tally... at 9:34... Obama has won more delegates than Clinton.
February 5, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Considering how the exit polls have been off across-the-board, I have a bad feeling about Ca. Hillary may easily take CA. :(
February 5, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can't say the Kennedy endorsement is a failure just because we don't win a state. By closing from 20 to 5 or so, we take away her delegates. Right now, from a delegate standpoint (assuming those large margins in the N.E. dwindle) then the delegate race is close, which favors Obama.
February 5, 2008 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am flipping between MSNBC and CNN...is it me or does CNN seem to be pulling for Hillary and MSNBC for Obama?
February 5, 2008 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Long night folks. And as all the campaigns said before today, this thing isn't over tonight. Wins are nice; delegates are what counts.
February 5, 2008 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, how is it shaping up as a good night for her? All six caucus states, which favor Obama, are left. And for the last week Obama has never lead in either NJ or MA. So he closed the gap in the NE to almost even up the delegates there, crushed in the states he needed to, and has some great states coming up.
February 5, 2008 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, the state which called an hour before all the other states, and therefore was the only newsworthy item for the duration of that hour, was the only headline during that same hour.
Idaho, Minnesota, Kansas, Alabama--huge wins for Obama.
February 5, 2008 9:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I find it curious with the exit poll info. Every one that was wrong was picking Obama but broke for Hillary. No one went the other way. Not claiming a tin foil hat theory, just making an observation. I've seen this in the last two presidential elections and it never gets explained other than "I guess people lied to the pollster." Can anyone add some insight as to how this keeps happening?
February 5, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exit polls are unreliable.
Don't even pretend there's voter fraud going on.
February 5, 2008 9:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not the intention. Just asking because they weren't always so unreliable. If they are unreliable why aren't they all over the place?The early voter theory makes some sense, but even the second wave had Obama winning a few states including NJ which went to HRC.
February 5, 2008 10:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do like the way this is shaping up for Obama, and this looks like a very interesting night. The exit polls all over are trending Obama (by far in some cases), which means that early voters are the biggest thing throwing calculations off.
One thought has recently started to root--all delegates are released from their pledges after the first ballot at the convention. If we can surmise anything from the results up to and including today, it is that a sizeable portion of early voters may well have changed their opinion since their ballot was cast. It will be a very interesting second ballot at the convention if this goes all the way there.
February 5, 2008 9:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
You figure all those voters are headed for the convention? Interesting.
February 5, 2008 11:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Idaho and North Dakota up next....
February 5, 2008 9:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not one to usually bitch about fairness, but seriously, why the big Hillary headlines with Obama footnotes?
February 5, 2008 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Idaho? A huge win??? Idaho? Are you really serious or a Clinton supporter whose is rubbing it in a little? Yes Idaho, a huge win. Delegates in Idaho - 12. It should give Barack real momentum. Maybe he can go back and put on his hunting vest next time. I hear their is some good hunting in Idaho. No wait, is he for the 2nd amendment now?? Maybe they took a poll there before he spoke and noticed a trend toward gun ownership in Idaho.
February 5, 2008 9:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Obama supporters are already spinning losses in all the big blue states like a dervish in a blender. That, more than anything else, makes it a huge night for Hillary so far. Long way to go yet.
Hey, guess what. Obama's campaign can play the race card over and over again until he gets to 99.7% of the black vote - and the Dems are not going to take Georgia, Alabama, and South Carolina in the GE. These are wins only important in that they got that bloc to turn out big - and that means more blacks probably vote in the GE.
The states that matter (except for Obama's home state, of course) are breaking for Clinton at this point. That's the unspun fact based on every counted voter. The GE is winner-take-all as I recall. That delegate thing is what Alfred Hitchcock called a McGuffin.
Most encouraging thing I see for Obama is Delaware win and possible Connecticut. If he wins the upset in California - then I think it's a bad night for Hillary and I'll start my spinning. LOL
February 5, 2008 9:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
there are twice as many delegates available to the winner of each CD than in the statewide total. while the national average of 57% women and 43% men helps her nationwide (damn 19th amendment:), obama has certain congressional districts in NY, NJ, GA, AL, CA, IL with a VERY high % of voters in his best demographic (under 30 and african-amer)...much higher than 57%. i venture to guess that he will come out slightly ahead in the delegate count even if hillary wins more states' popular vote.
February 5, 2008 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Someone needs to remind Josh that Delaware is in the NE.
February 5, 2008 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
colonpowwow,
Interestingly, looks like Obama has gained on Clinton quite a bit against the "black candidate" spin. The only demographic Clinton has a reliable lead in is white women, particularly the older ones. Obama is handily the favoured one among the <40 crowd in all demographics.
February 5, 2008 10:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excited to see the rural caucus states (ND, ID, MN, KS) coming in overwhelmingly for Obama.
Definetly worried about MO though, its interesting that no ones called it yet.
February 5, 2008 10:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Colonpowwow, it's all spin now. Obama's strategy going into this was to split Clinton's heavy delegate advantage that she was counting on coming from the northeast, pick up the majority of delegates out of the none coastal states, and split if not outright steal California. The goal was to make the argument that they are building a much more broad-based and expansive coalition than Clinton is, and to keep Clinton from putting her name on the vast majority of states with outright wins.
The fact that his poll numbers increased so dramatically leading up to today was the only reason some people considered states like New Jersey and Massachusetts in play. Winning there wasn't necessarily part of Obama's strategy, although I'm sure they would have been happy to. After tonight, since it's now clear that there'll be no killing blow from either side, this thing goes long-haul. And that's a fight that Obama has set themselves up to win outright. Clinton was all about inevitability, and that's out the door for good now.
February 5, 2008 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sick of TPM constantly logging me out for posts. This will be doubleposted, and I apologize, but whatever.
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Colonpowwow, it's all spin now. Obama's strategy going into this was to split Clinton's heavy delegate advantage that she was counting on coming from the northeast, pick up the majority of delegates out of the none coastal states, and split if not outright steal California. The goal was to make the argument that they are building a much more broad-based and expansive coalition than Clinton is, and to keep Clinton from putting her name on the vast majority of states with outright wins.
The fact that his poll numbers increased so dramatically leading up to today was the only reason some people considered states like New Jersey and Massachusetts in play. Winning there wasn't necessarily part of Obama's strategy, although I'm sure they would have been happy to. After tonight, since it's now clear that there'll be no killing blow from either side, this thing goes long-haul. And that's a fight that Obama has set themselves up to win outright. Clinton was all about inevitability, and that's out the door for good now.
February 5, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
She'll win Texas, Ohio, Pennsylvania and maybe even Virginia if she wins CA tonight.
February 5, 2008 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing on the four Western states called for Obama in the hour since this post (KS, ND, ID, UT)?
February 5, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kansas was just called for Obama. I think MO will be called for Hillary and Connecticut for Obama pretty soon.
February 5, 2008 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
The way I see it is more simple (minded?). Hillary won the traditionally Democratic blue states, the ones that any Dem needs in order to win the GE.
If Obama can't win the majority of big Democratic states, how does that translate into he's the most electable Democrat - when the Democrats that do the electing around here are picking Hillary in Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Missouri.
Winning Georgiam Alabama, North Dakota, even Kansas, is nice enough, but they don't win the GE for Democrats. Any Democrat in Idaho is a rebel in a state that went to Bush with 72%. These are not your mainstream Democratic regulars we're talking about here, Jah love 'em.
February 5, 2008 10:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
The way I see it is more simple (minded?). Hillary won the traditionally Democratic blue states, the ones that any Dem needs in order to win the GE.
If Obama can't win the majority of big Democratic states, how does that translate into he's the most electable Democrat - when the Democrats that do the electing around here are picking Hillary in Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Missouri.
Winning Georgiam Alabama, North Dakota, even Kansas, is nice enough, but they don't win the GE for Democrats. Any Democrat in Idaho is a rebel in a state that went to Bush with 72%. These are not your mainstream Democratic regulars we're talking about here, Jah love 'em.
February 5, 2008 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Missouri can't be called yet; Hillary is doing well in the rural and small town areas. The big metropolitan and college towns always finish up last and so far these areas are going strongly to Obama.
It's still very close; I do think Obama will win. But it will be close.
(formerly stlounick)
February 5, 2008 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's great news nick. That's basically how Clair McCaskill took her Senate seat, so I can definitely see that scenario playing out. BTW, why'd you drop the old name? I liked it.
February 5, 2008 11:00 PM | Reply | Permalink