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Debates, Debates, And More Debates!

One side effect that the protracted Dem primary will have is that we'll be watching still more debates in a race that's already seen more than a dozen of them.

The Hillary camp, for instance, sent out word today that she's agreed to two more verbal showdowns with Obama: A February 10 debate on ABC with George Stephanopoulos; and a February 27 debate in CNN in Houston.

And the Hillary campaign wants still more of them. On a conference call today Hillary pollster Mark Penn declared that the Clinton campaign would like to see a debate between Hillary and Obama once a week through the end of the contest.

Camp Hillary must think she outshines him in that sort of forum, and more debates lessen the degree to which Obama can frame the race only with his superior oratory. But this is clearly a gamble, because as many commentators have noted, the new head-to-head format allows Obama to rise to her stature level in a way that wasn't possible when John Edwards was in the race.

Late Update: The Huffington Post reports that Hillary has also accepted a debate invitation -- from Fox News, risking the anger of progressive activists. An Obama spokesperson told HuffPo that no decisions about any of the above debates had yet been made.


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NO MORE DEBATES!!!! I am tired of them. How many times do they have to say and do the same thing over, and over, and over, and over again.

I thought the debate on Feb. 27 was going to be in Ohio?

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I'm so sick of debates. I mean c'mon, how many times can they tell us where they stand on each issue, seriously, there is no point. I know exactly where Obama stands, I know exactly where Hillary stands, if you don't know who you are voting for by now you are a goddamn idiot. That's that.

Historically doesn't the struggling candidate press for endless debates? I recall Kerry did it with Bush and was brushed off until the time came for the cursory debates.

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This is exactly what I'm thinking. ♪

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She'll ruin herself with too many

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Boxer is talking on MSNBC right now. What a great senator and a great democrat.

This is good news, presuming Obama doesn't concede the race after today's results. The more opportunities for the Democrats to debate, the more people across the country get to know them and keep interested. The free publicity is invaluable. By comparison, McCain's going to be kind of forgotten between now and the Republican convention.

I'm sure Obama will continue to improve and will have good moments but he is no match to Clinton. He lacks experience, he lacks indepth knowledge and interest on topics (opting too often for broad ideas instead of specifics), he is not good at thinking and, especially, at speaking on his feet (instead of with a prepared text), and he has rude streak and temper that is easily drawn out by Clinton.

On the other hand, these debates serve as great platforms for Clinton to show her experience, her tremendous knowledge on topics, her control, her readiness, and her consident 'looking and acting' presidental. How better to confirm herself to Democrats and to sell herself to the country at large?

Yes, debate weekly!

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There's good reason to think that Hillary shines in debates, but that's not really what Mark Penn's after.

To understand this request from the Clinton camp, you need look no further than the calendar for the remainder of February. We're four days away from Louisiana, Nebraska, and Washington. Obama is the presumed frontrunner in all three states (SurveyUSA, of all polls, put him up 53-40 yesterday in WA.) After that comes Maine, a small caucus state. Then there's DC (heavily black), MD (39-26) and VA. Hawaii (where Obama grew up) and Wisconsin complete the month on Feb. 19. Then there's nothing at all until March 4.

Mark Penn's nightmare is that Hillary does well today - winning most of the states, the popular vote, and a clear majority of delegates. Then, for the next two weeks, Obama steadily whittles away at her lead. He takes state after state, amasses delegates, and saps her momentum. So that by the time the big states roll around in March, he's poised to compete, maybe even win.

His counterstroke is to propose debates. Every time there's a debate, it changes the topic of conversation. The media will discuss their relative performances. Some will be scored as wins for Hillary, some will be losses, and most will be effective draws. But each debate that shifts the focus away from Obama's latest suprising triumph, from the size of his crowds, from the enthusiasm of his backers - Hillary wins. Instead of a month of demoralizing defeats, Hillary can look forward to a month of attention to the candidates, punctuated by periodic elections. And that's a far more appealing prospect.

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This is a transparent attempt by Hillary to undercut Obama's advantage by preventing him from actually campaigning. Why am I not surprised that Matthew Weaver already has the HRC talking points memorized? It's called thinking for yourself, Matthew. Look into it.

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Mattie, I don't know what debates you were watching. Your play by play on the debates is not even close to reality. Hillaryis44.org is your site. I bet its exciting over there right now. Have fun.

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This is a transparent attempt by Hillary to undercut Obama's advantage by preventing him from actually campaigning. Why am I not surprised that Matthew Weaver already has the HRC talking points memorized? It's called thinking for yourself, Matthew. Look into it.

Nearly everything that Matthew Weaver just wrote struck me a delusional, but I can at least agree with him that more debates are a good thing. One a week might be a bit much, and I cannot watch any of the ones that occur on CNN because I do not get cable and for whatever reason my Macintosh does not like the CNN quicktime feed. Nonetheless, they have been surprisingly substantive so far, which helps to keep the race focused on the issues, which is in everyone's interest.

She desperately needs to break up the string of victories and momentum he will build between now and March 4th (her next firewall). That and she's probably out of money at this point and could use the free publicity.

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This is a transparent attempt by Hillary to undercut Obama's advantage by preventing him from actually campaigning. Why am I not surprised that Matthew Weaver already has the HRC talking points memorized? It's called thinking for yourself, Matthew. Look into it.

Hey Michael A, and I was just going to say something nice about Sen. Boxer who I was also just listening to on MSNBC.

Okay, maybe a bit rough on Obama, but you've surely got to admit that each of the points are essentially true.

1. He lacks experience. I sorry but community organizing, 20-years of friendship and patronage to a slumlord, time as a state senator with lots of present votes, claim to not be organized, not a COO-type person, and so forth.

2. He lacks indepth knowledge and interest on topics (opting too often for broad ideas instead of specifics). Talking about Hope and Change is fine but how about some specifics. Consider that Clinton can and does talk easily at any level of depth on just about any topic. She's a policy wonk with the grace of delivery.

3. He is not good at thinking and, especially, at speaking on his feet (instead of with a prepared text). He fumbles answers, often talk too long and without getting to direct, clear, and simple points. I do not support him, true, but there are numerous times I've heard him formulating answers that just don't get to the point and I'm finding myself wanting to yell out the answer. He misses opportunties.

4. He has rude streak and temper that is easily drawn out by Clinton. Shall we list some examples? The debate before New Hampshire, the debate in South Carolina, the State of the Union, and dissing Florida voters. Okay, some of this is perception but in listening to him, hearing him interact, and these specific instances, he clearly has a rude streak and temper.

Your thoughts? And by the way, I do not know what this hillary site is that you keep hawking and I haven't been there. I'm going to be offline for a while--5 month old twins to help with and got to go vote in New York's primary...

This is a transparent attempt by Hillary to undercut Obama's advantage by preventing him from actually campaigning. Why am I not surprised that Matthew Weaver already has the HRC talking points memorized? It's called thinking for yourself, Matthew. Look into it.

Call me crazy, but I am not at all clear as to what ThompsonLives means to say here. So Clinton, a politician, tries to press her advantage in an obvious fashion and this is somehow a bad thing? What politician would not try to play to his/her strenghts?

That said, maybe it just goes to show how much of the Obama kool-aid I have drunk, but I have not come away from any of the debates which I watched thinking that Clinton was especially more masterful than Obama. I think that he acquits himself admirably in each. I think, as such, that more debates are good for everyone (although one a week might be a bit much and lead to folks souring on them).

Incidentally, I think that the idea of having a debate on Fox is not such a bad idea. Both Clinton and Obama have shown that they can manage to make themselves heard over the right-wing noise machine, so there is little to be lost from such a forum. Meanwhile, Fox is accessible to those of us who do not have cable, so it would make it easier for a larger audience to watch.

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FoxNews is on cable. Plus, I think Obama has a standing "freeze out" against FoxNews due to their failure to present key facts in their stories. I wonder if he will keep it going through the GE.

Ben Smith's write up of this story claims that Fox News wants to carry the debate on local Fox affiliates.

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I don't mind more debates, although once a week is absolute overkill. The two schedule seem okay for the next series of elections; more may be needed later in the schedule.

And, of course, Hillary wants more so she can have free publicity and use her debate skills (although I think Obama does better when there are only the two of them). There's no reason for Obama to grant Hillary's wish list.

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I voted for HRC and confess a bias in favor of her. That said, I hope we have debates, and lots of them, both because it will help Hillary in her underfunded state AND because it is the democratic thing to do.

Other than partisan or political reasons, is there anyone out there who can present an argument about why the American people should not be treated to a series of debates between these two swell candidates?

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After watching several of these I can see why camp Clinton wants still more. She is probably the best debater I have ever seen. She has owned the debates so far with very few exceptions.

I don't think that she necessarily makes better points or recites the facts any better but she wins because she has mastered the art displaying dominant gestures and thus looking more presidential. For instance when Barak is talking she looks directly at him the entire time (a dominate trait) but when she talks he tends to look down (a submissive trait). She always makes a statement of inclusion early in the debate such as "We all agree that..." this puts her in the position of speaking for the group (dominate trait). She does a wonderful job of moving the topic to a framing of her choosing so that weather she wins the argument or not you get the sense that it was fought on her turf.

The net effect is that each time I watch a debate she comes across as the leader of the group and Barak comes across as the intellectual. The Clinton camp knows that America wants a leader for president not just a thinker. I think the Repubs understand this better than the Dems do.

Every time I watch a debate I come away thinking that Hillary will win the election but then I hear an Obama speech a few days later and I feel so proud to be an American that I wonder how anyone could ever vote against him.

Obama would do well to either limit the number of debates from here out or start working on improving his mannerisms. He has an inherit advantage of being taller but he tends to slump a bit, especially when seated, which is another submissive trait.

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Mattie, ugh, your conclusions and distortions aren't points at all. They are false. I keep pointing out hillaryis44.org, because you're posts appear to be cut and pastes from hillaryis44.org.

I'm tired of the experience bs. He has just as much experience as clinton and in fact has more elected experience. He has run an incredibly smooth campaign and effective campaign and has wiped out the clintons double digit nationwide lead based on name recognition. The clintons' campaign has been anything but smooth and effective and is hemoraging. What does that tell you about experience?

I don't count as experience sitting for 6 years on the walmart board and screwing people as good experience, nor do I count 8 years in the white house when she didn't even have a security clearance. Also, the white house years shouldn't count because the clintons are refusing to release their white house docs. What are they trying to hide?

On his depth of knowledge, the last debate shows that he is equal to clinton. If you want specifics, go to barakobama.com. It is very detailed. All this garbage about no detail and that he is all talk is just garbage.

3 is completely false. He is very good on his feet as evidenced by his responses in the last debate in particular. Apparently you didn't watch that one.

4 is silly. Temper? That's a joke. He has been getting treated like dirt by the clintons since he announced he was running. She refused to talk to him in the senate after he made his announcement and they have been demeaning him since. Give me a break.

I'm sure this was a waste of time, but whatever.

The consensus on Ben Smith's blog commentary is that Hillary's campaign is running short of cash and is doing this as a way to have free publicity. For what it's worth.

Also, on the one hand, they feel like debates are her strength, on the other, it elevates his stature to hers. As an Obama supporter, I would like to see him focus more on rallies that expose him to more people first hand.

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short of cash... this fits too.

Perhaps Hillary will be fortunate and get a fair and balanced moderator like Karl Rove, or Hannity, or Hume. I'm sure she'll win more votes there than on Ed Schultz on Air America (where I believe she would not go on).

I'm going to have to agree that pretty much everything that Weaver said was delusional, but hey, why bother arguing facts with braindead Hillbots who get all of their thoughts straight from Hillary, Bill and Mark Penn. Obviously they don't spend much time researching, so why even try to enlighten them. I've learned that Hillbots are barely any better than hardcore Republicans, it is nearly impossible to talk any sense into either of them. Ignorance is a bitch.

I don't know much about nothing, but couldn't this be part of the expectations spin, too.

if Clinton's internal polling is showing some decisive wins for Obama, wouldn't this help establish a "next phase" narrative for the media to grab hold of.

i'm partial of course, but, and this is what I want, but it makes a little sense, right?

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I would think one or two more debates would be fine if they were space out a bit. Weekly debates is silly -- seeing as we know just about everything we possibly can from these candidates and the bajillion debates we've had so far.

Hillary is going to need occasional positive stories, hence her need for the debates. If she falls short of expectations today and then again next week in dc/va/md, she'll need SOME sort of firewall to try to push off of and get a good news cycle...cable network debates are really the only way to do that for her.

If I'm Obama, I don't say anything until I see where I stand tonight and how we look going forward. I would accept one more debate after next Tuesday.

Steve Garrett, I think those are good insights, and I'm sure the Obama team must be working on body language. I do remember someone somewhere posting a picture of Barack a) sitting up straight and b) looking at her, and the poster said, oh, look how arrogant he is as he sneers down at her.

Hillary can't equal him in fundraising, news cycle dominance or gestalt, so she needs to share the stage. Right now, a tie for her is a victory, because it's not a win for him.

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Greg DeLassus, this is in response to you:

I have no problem with another debate, or two, or even three. But once per week until the nominee is decided is ludicrous.

And it has nothing to do with her perceived strength debates, or free media. It has to do with her seeking to remove Obama from the campaign trail as often as possible by forcing him to waste at least two days per week in debate prep and actual debates. That's 28 percent of the week that Obama can't spend reaching people on the stump, which is his obvious strength, and her obvious weakness. So why should he capitulate?

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Greg DeLassus, this is in response to you:

I have no problem with another debate, or two, or even three. But once per week until the nominee is decided is ludicrous.

And it has nothing to do with her perceived strength debates, or free media. It has to do with her seeking to remove Obama from the campaign trail as often as possible by forcing him to waste at least two days per week in debate prep and actual debates. That's 28 percent of the week that Obama can't spend reaching people on the stump, which is his obvious strength, and her obvious weakness. So why should he capitulate?

If Hillary wins big tonight, will she still agree to all those weekly debates that she is now demanding?

Want to bet that she will actually do so?

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Kathleen, I think I remember that picture. He had good posture but a poor facial expression. He should try to look at her as if he's looking pleasantly upon a child playing while keeping his upper body as still as possible. That's how she looks at him. She's good at it.

I hope he does improve he needs to at least stalemate McCain in the General if he gets there.

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Greg DeLassus, this is in response to you:

I have no problem with another debate, or two, or even three. But once per week until the nominee is decided is ludicrous.

And it has nothing to do with her perceived strength debates, or free media. It has to do with her seeking to remove Obama from the campaign trail as often as possible by forcing him to waste at least two days per week in debate prep and actual debates. That's 28 percent of the week that Obama can't spend reaching people on the stump, which is his obvious strength, and her obvious weakness. So why should he capitulate?

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