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CNN Poll: Obama Up 4 Points In Texas

The new CNN poll of Texas has some big news, putting Barack Obama ahead in this important March 4 primary, although the results aren't quite conclusive.

Here are the numbers, compared to last week:

Obama 50% (+2)
Clinton 46% (-4)

With a margin of error of ±3.5%, the race is still a statistical dead heat. From the pollster's analysis: "The 2-point gain for Obama and the 4-point drop for Clinton are both within the poll's sampling error, so although the survey appears to indicate some movement toward Obama, we cannot say for certain that he has gained any ground since last week."

Texas has become a key firewall state for Hillary, and even Bill Clinton himself said she needs to win both here and in Ohio on March 4, or else she won't become the nominee.


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Uh oh, she was up by what 20 points a week and a half ago. This can't be good news for the clintons' camp. No wonder she has been doing what she's been doing over the last couple of days. They are getting desperate to try to stop the momentum.

3/5 is looking better and better.

Only 23,000 more donations are needed to put Obama over a million contributors in this race!

His campaign is putting out the call for anyone who hasn't donated before to consider donating at least five bucks, to help him reach this important milestone before the Texas and Ohio race!

New contributor's donations right now are being matched by prior donors, so you can make twice the difference.

Be one in a million... and give Obama five for running a decent, honorable campaign!

Excellent. This is exactly where I was hoping we would be at this point in the game. Last week I was tickled to see the race narrow to a dead-heat, with Obama slightly behind, because I knew that this simply indicated his gaining momentum. Now the next stage is arriving right on time - still in a statistical dead-heat, but with Obama pulling ahead of Clinton within that gap. By next Tues when the election actually arrives, I expect that he will be ahead of her by a gap wider than the MOE. Everything is moving exactly as I had hoped.

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Greg,

Were you sitting in a high-backed chair and tapping your fingers together when you typed that?

I'm just wondering.

For what it's worth, I'm sitting in a high-backed chair stroking a white siamese cat while wearing black gloves.

"Precisely on schedule, my pet... Everything is going purrrrrfectly..."

Eyepatch. Don't forget the eyepatch.

If only the media just wasn't so negative about Clinton.

Precisely. Luckily we have The Clintons to spell out which states are important and which states are not.

Where's that guy who always says this is excellent news!! for Hillary! That guy is funny.

If ARG was reputable enough to report with respect to Clinton's Ohio lead (which you did this morning), why is it (presumably) not reputable enough to report Obama's lead in Texas? If I recall, it has him winning there as well.

Just want to understand the difference. TIA.

Because it is good news for Senator Obama. TPM does not want to draw too much attention to that. On the other hand, they can never have enough attention paid to good news for Senator Clinton.

TPM is suffering from Red States Don't Matter Syndrome. Therefore Obama Poll leads are not as important as Hillery poll leads.

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Good news! And not for HRC!!
A good place to be a week ahead, four pts ahead and surging. A double digit victory looks possible here for Obama. Much closer in Ohio but the momentum is there. I think the new found Hillary "voice" is paying off in spades for her.

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Ah, that photo of Obama in the cowboy hat more than makes up for the Somali thing. Expect to see Hillary in a full Annie Oakley outfit tomorrow.

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That was funny.

Did Annie Oakley also wear Pants Suits to hide Annie Oak Trees?

Did Annie Oakley also wear Pants Suits to hide Annie Oak Trees?

Oh, I get it! HRC must have big legs. Funny insult the woman joke, real classy.

Prediction: 15 point win in Texas and a 10 point win in Ohio (for Obama). Vermont, 35 point win. Rhode Island, even, but I'll give to Hillary just as a parting reminder of the good ol days of Super Tuesday and New Hampshire. The end is near!

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which puts BHO ahead in TX for the first time on the Pollster.com average.

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Memo to Obama campaign:
Whatever the freak you're doing - don't stop!

this is EXCELLENT NEWS!!! for HILLARY!!

!!!HILLMENTUM™!!!!

My favorite commenter on TPM -- idiotic never fails!

I'm very curious whether we can assume that Obama's showing in Texas will be inflated by Texas' unusual election+caucus system. Did the Clinton campaign ever get their stuff together insofar as organizing for that? I remember TPM was reporting last week on the Clinton campaign running radio ads which gave instructions on how to early-vote, but ignored the caucus...

I really wonder what the Clinton campaign was thinking when they decided to make Texas+Ohio their firewalls. Maybe Ohio was a wise choice there; I don't know much about Ohio. But I know more about Texas, and the Texas primary seems almost custom made for Obama to do well, what with the open primary and the presence of the unusually arcane caucus. It seems like by calling so much attention to Texas over the last few weeks, the Clinton campaign was basically just setting up unnecessarily high expectations for themselves in a primary they were structurally unlikely to win to begin with. Did they think this ahead at all?

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They didn't DECIDE that Texas and Ohio would be the firewalls, they had no choice when their campaign started to implode.

Well, there were hopeful demographics for them. I think they'll be out, voluntarily, if they can't pull off both states.

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Well, let's see exactly what mr. bill said concerning texas and ohio. These are the quotes reported by the ap:

Bill Clinton: Hillary needs Texas, Ohio

BEAUMONT, Texas (AP) — Former President Clinton said Wednesday he believes his wife needs victories in the Texas and Ohio primaries next month to save her presidential candidacy.

"If she wins in Texas and Ohio, I think she'll be the nominee," Clinton told several hundred supporters during a campaign appearance for Hillary Rodham Clinton in a downtown parking lot. "If you don't deliver for her, I don't think she can be."

It was an acknowledgment he repeated earlier in Galveston when he began a daylong Texas tour trying to stop the momentum of Sen. Barack Obama, his wife's rival for the Democratic nomination.

Texas and Ohio hold primaries March 4.


Knowing the clintons and knowing the way they parse words, like when he said that he didn't say anything bad about obama in south carolina, which he didn't. It was in NEW HAMPSHIRE. Word parsing to the extreme.

Mr. Bill did not say that if she loses either or both that she will not be the nominee. He said that he doesn't "think" that she could be the nominee. Well, of course his thoughts could be wrong, so if she loses, he can come out and say that he doesn't think she will be the nominee if she doesn't win puerto rico and this train wreck will go on until June.

Clintonisms at their best.

For the UMPTEENTH time (Greg, Erik & Josh), Hillary can't JUST WIN Ohio & Texas, she must win by 20% in each just to close the lead, 30% to overtake him.

NOT.
GONNA.
HAPPEN.

Barack is right. Had he lost 11 straight like Hillary (and lost them as HUGE as she did), the press & the Democratic party would be pushing him to withdraw.

In fact, they'd be demanding it. CNN & FOX would be on it 24/7 on it until he withdrew.

So, Greg, Erik & Josh. STOP posting/titling/reporting it as thought it sikply a must "win" in both states (which you're now reducing to either/or).

She need BLOWOUTS in BOTH STATES to catch up.

He just need to NOT LOSE by more than 5.

Poor Hillary. Just when, after 35 years experience, she had finally "found her voice."

It is over.

Poor Bill.

Damn...
He even looks good in a cowboy hat:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattwright/400394507/

Damn...
He even looks good in a cowboy hat:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattwright/400394507/

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Why hasn't Obama asked Clinton about her playing drinking games with John McCain in a war-zone (Afghanistan) while on the taxpayer's dime?

Wait, that actually sounds kind of awesome.

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Kinda totally awesome!

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Wow, these Obama-rising polls are rolling in like waves on a beach.


MUST READ. Insightful analysis on Dem Contenders in Texas.

http://blog.psaonline.org/2008/02/25/the-clinton-obama-exchange-you-might-have-missed/

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Fascinating link and spot on. Thanks.

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Hillary has high negatives in most red states.

Barack's numbers seem to do nothing but go up where ever he goes but in red states the effect is especially true since Dems there know that Hillary has no shot what so ever and Barack just might.

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There actually is talk and analysis of obama playing for texas in the general. With the demographics and excitement among dems, the cross-over appeal, and the depressed republican electorate this year, texas very well might be in play. That would be huge if texas goes blue in November. Talk about a huge, huge, huge national mandate for obama.

Thank God!!!

I don't care who wins.

Don't get me wrong- I still support Obama. But at this point, I just want Senator Clinton's campaign to END.

If this is true, then:

THANK GOD!!!! I MEAN REALLY, THANK YOU GOD!!!!!

Join the Ranch Party Gang

Deep in the Heart of Texas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjNdJ1beygg

Lots of milkshake being drunk by the Obama camp now. He's got a straw that goes waaaaaay over here to Hillary's glass. Draaaainnnnaaage.

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If nobody else is gonna do it, I tip my internet cap to you for the "There Will Be Blood" reference...

Well, points for that allusion aside, he is still really wierding me out by choosing "Lars Thorwald" as his screen name. I feel like I need to keep a stash of old-fashioned flash bulbs by the computer now and keep my little dog away from the threads in which he participates.

(Not that I dislike your posts, dear Mr Thorwald. I am just not sure what to make of it when someone chooses such a name and photo.)


:-/

Oh, that's an easy one to answer. Gavin Elster, George Kaplan, and Roger O. Thornhill were already taken.

I always hear Grace Kelly speak your name when I see it. Back in the day on Fark, then on Kos, and now here.

I have said it before folks and I say it again. It boils down to this The more people are exposed to Senator Clinton, the less they like her. The more people are exposed to Senator Obama the more they like him. It is as simple as that. That is why Hillary failed so badly in caucus states where more people had a chance to meet her. The big States on Super Tuesday that she carried were places that she was seen mostly on TV spots, so people were voting more on name recognition more than anything else.

Here is a prime example of what I am talking about. Hillary was very close in the Wisconsin Polls while she stayed in Texas and Ohio. When she spent the last weekend in Wisconsin, and people got exposed to her, she got trounced

The same thing has been taking place in Texas and Ohio. Her leads in the polls were far larger in those state s before she spent any time in them and the more time that she spends in them, the more her poll ratings drop.

She is both the Hillary and the Anti-Hillary all by herself.

People do not like her, and they do like Senator Obama.

When people develop a visceral dislike for a person, they will never be able to vote for that person. That is human nature. She is through.

There is no political remedy for an abiding dislike.

Liam, I think what that you say is unwittingly highlighted by a complaint of the Clintonistas themselves. They are always whining that the media are so unfair to them. But, in fact, their cause does best when the media are in charge of Hillary's image. The moment she shows up in person, her polls start plunging.

If he does more campaigning in the cowboy hat that just might happen ;-)

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Where's the photo of Michelle in a cowboy hat? She'd still make a darned good-looking rodeo queen!

My other post was supposed to be in response to Michael A.

The ARG poll was the only one that had Obama ahead and it was by more than a point or two - so a) it wasn't consistent with the other polls and b) it was ARG. Now there is some support for the ARG poll from a more reliable source so it makes it more legitimate.

Yes, this nomination process needs to be done. McCain is picking up speed every day and as long as Obama is fighting Hillary he can't dig into McCain enough.

and even Bill Clinton himself said she needs to win both here and in Ohio on March 4, or else she won't become the nominee.

first off, he said she probably wouldn't be the nominee, not that she wouldn't be. And that was after saying that, if she did win Texas and Ohio, she would be the nominee.

Secondly, he said it in the context of a rally of Clinton supporters -- in other words, he said it to motivate those supporters to work as hard as possible for Hillary Clinton. In other words, he was telling supporters that they could lock in Hillary's nomination if they worked hard, but if they didn't work hard, she'd be in big trouble.

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So your point is that everything he says is still completely full of shit. Agreed.

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I wrote to Paul Krugman a while back and tried to explain to him that the people he called "Hillary haters" don't necessarily hate her all that much. They just hate the fact that's she's still in the race, causing a distraction and tearing down the sure nominee and the party. We don't hate Hillary. We just want to slam the door on her candidacy so Obama can get to work winning this thing.

If she doesn't drop out after March 4, I swear I'm gonna donate every dime in my savings AND checking accounts to Obama's campaign. I'm sure the extra $37.82 will put him over the top...

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If the Margin of Error is 3.5 points, and Obama's lead is 50-46, does that not, in fact, put said lead outside of the margin of error, and therefore make it meaningfully significant?

Guess I've never thought about the +/- part, and whether that makes a 3.5% MOE an actual MOE of 7 points for assessing whether a lead is "real" or not.

My first instinct, though, is that Eric was spinning this latest setback for Hillary Clinton the way that the weatherman justifies having a 9 degree window for his "4 degree guarantee".

Agree! If hers was a positive campaign I think the media coverage would actually be good for the Dems but she just keep giving the Repubs ammunition and distracting from the real purpose - which is winning in Nov.

That and I am beginning to become a Hillary hater. Never was, would have gladly voted for either until this weekend when she jumped the shark. (well not never, but I did wash the bad taste out of my mouth from the SC slime-fest).
She needs to stop before she loses her good name.

Listen My Fellow Obama Supporters:

For full disclosure I am passionately supporting Obama- he is the most (and the first) exciting candidate since Bobby.

I have a request bordering on a demand: Stop trashing Hillary AND her supporters, especially with Nader in the race. If you are not motivated for the sake of being classy and humble in victory, then DO IT FOR OBAMA'S GENERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN.

If we continue angering Hillary's supporters, and additionally do not garner Hillary's very strong support, many of them will not come out to votein November. While I think that should Hillary beat Obama to become the candidate, she would need Obama's supporters more than Obama will need her supporters for the General Election, I want to smart.

Which one of you wants to take the chance that sufficiently angering and humiliating Hillary's supporters will not trigger some of them into not voting for Obama in November? Try to look at it like this: every snipe toward Hillary or her supporters is a potential lost vote! (Gut check time- look at the Florida 2000 numbers's- Gore lost by

So please, let us all be conscious of the implications every time we open our mouths for Obama.
Thank You- now let's go get Texas and Ohio!

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You're absolutely right. We should start thinking bigger picture here. We need to join our candidate and win this thing with dignity, knowing full well that the true test is not March 5th, or November, or even January 2009. There is a long, long road ahead, and a lot of work to do to make sure that Barack Obama's candidacy and his presidency are not tarnished by unseemly gloating.

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I could not agree with you more.

There have been moments in this campaign where I have literally detested a tactic used by the Clinton campaign.

Because I thought it was divisive and would leave the party in shambles.

But if we continue to wage war back at them, we're ALSO being divisive and hostile and in the end, I think we ALL want a unified party.

So go Hillary and GO OBAMA!

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I guess I haven't seen many Hillary supporters around lately, but if I see any, I'll try to remember not to trash them.

Actually, I don't know that I've ever trashed a Hillary supporter. I've been trashing Hillary since long before she announced that she was running. There are few people in American politics that I like less than her. She right down there with Joe Lieberman in my book. I don't like hawks in general.

TEXAS DOESN'T COUNT. TEXAS DOESN'T COUNT.

"Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear..." 2006 to be precise.

There were 3 camps in the Democratic Party locked in internecine strife ; Rahm Emmanuel in charge of the House,Chuck Shumer in charge of the Senate, pitted against Howard Dean.

Rahm and Chuck were pursuing a Clitonesque strategy of triangulation and triage. Pick our best spots, do our best same old, same old to win them, and forget all the rest. They should come away with a slender lead in the House and increased numbers, though no chance of taking, the senate. They battled constantly with Dean and his "50 State" plan over resources, often bitterly and publicly. They felt the Dean Plan siphoned money away from likely races Like Ohio and wasted them in Red States like Montana. Then one fine November morning the Dems win the House by 30 seats and the miracle of taking the Senate. Who took the credit? Look back. Emmanuel was the genius who fought the "50 State" plan longest and most vocally and he was taking most of the bows that morning. Why is this important today?

The Clinton team is using the established brain trust that took the bow for 2006, not the ones who accomplished it.

One of the strongest foot soldiers in the "50 State" plan was a freshman Senator from Illinois who went anywhere and everywhere to help any Democrat.

Obama saw what was out there and tapped into it.

Why does he do so well in the caucuses? He helped fledgling local democrats get started in these red and purple states.These new campaigners are the backbone of his grass roots organization.

Why does he know what is going on in Texas and Hillary does not? Because he was there in 2006, getting this thing started.

HRC needs 70-75% in Texas to gain delegate ground. She needs to overcome the delegate apportionment hurdle ( Obama's urban strongholds will out gain HRC's strong districts) and She will be able to set up a caucus organization in 2 weeks that Obama has sewn seeds for 2 years ago.

“ A fiery horse with the speed of light, a cloud of dust, and a hearty 'Hi-ho Silver away!' The Lone Ranger! ”

Check out the hat.

Excellent point and well made.

This should be a diary.

firewall?! she's like a character from street fighter. firewall!

One thing to factor into Ohio,,,,,,, there is a deep resevoir of good will for the Clintons for the support over the years they gave to Ted Strickland in his struggles to gain, retain and regain his House seat against some really over the edge right wing Republican smears and candidates. Likewise for their help,,,,, not so much needed after two terms of Bob Taft as Gov and voter suppression ace Ken Blackwell as Secy of State,,, in his win the the Governors race against the self same Blackwell, now a DC lobbist I hear.

That notwithstanding, if Obama can work Ohio as well as he has worked other primaries, he'll do well. There are four distinct regions in Ohio
which increases the challenge, but with the ground operation he puts in place,,,, which sounds like the way the late Mayor Daley of Chicago did it,,,,, the hard work will save the day.

GOBAMA 08

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Rudy Guiliani is coaching the Clinton campaign.

Finally, a real candidate.

How come the Messiah won't answer these questions? How come all you cultists won't even consider them, yet insist on calling yourselves 'progressives'. Yeah, right . . .

Nader, to Obama:

"Above all, explain why you don't come down hard on the economic crimes against minorities in city ghettos: payday loans, predatory lending, rent-to-own rackets, landlord abuses, lead contamination, asbestos," Nader said.

"There's an unseemly silence by you, Barack -- a community organizer in poor areas in Chicago many years ago -- on this issue," he said.

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Can you provide a link to that conversation between Barack Obama and Ralph Nader? The one where Nader stridently issued that heroic challenge above and Barack Obama sat in silent awe?

If the Naderites think they're going to break new ground with this "Barack Obama's Messianic Cult" thing, I promise you that isn't going to happen. We've heard it all and our heroic leader has programmed us to disregard these smears against our courageous leader.

Barack Obama Backs Plan To Cap Payday Loans
http://www.rtoonline.com/Content/Article/Feb08/BarackObamaPaydayLoan-263839520_020408.asp

So "silence" is a lie. If you want to argue that these things should get more attention than they are getting right now, fine -- there are lots of worthy issues.

Good luck Ralph. I am sure that you will carry all those states that you have carried in the past, and after you get sworn in, only in your own mind, you will make 100 US Senators, and 435 congress persons that do not belong to your imaginary party, do your bidding.

drw3344: I have a request bordering on a demand: Stop trashing Hillary AND her supporters, especially with Nader in the race. If you are not motivated for the sake of being classy and humble in victory, then DO IT FOR OBAMA'S GENERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN.


Guess what, drw3344, you're too late.

The disgusting behavior directed towards Hillary, not to mention the constant and surprisingly virulent strain of misogyny, has already made many women I know of change their mind about voting. Keep in mind, I can’t stand Hillary. Of course, I can’t stand Obama The Charlatan, either. But my point is, I’m pretty neutral and objective as my dislikes are equal, and I can tell you that the attacks directed towards Hillary – vile, venomous, cruel, totally malicious and bigoted – have woken up so many women that Obama is going to have a tough time of it. They will, like me, mostly vote for Greens or Ralph Nader (or both, should they coincide). You should have thought of all this long ago, before the Messiah took you all down the path of repulsive mob-psychology.

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Uh huh, you are neutral alright and I am the king of siam. Too funny.

Right, I'm neutral. I wouldn't vote for either Hillary or Obama, got it? Unlike you, who are essentially a moderate Republican. Just because I happen to see, very clearly, the abominable behavior of the Hillary-haters, and comment on it, does not alter my neutrality between both centrists/liars/opportunists - Hillary and Obama.

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Uh, I gotta ask out of curiosity. Why would you say that I was a moderate republican? That's a new one, just curious.

Miki;
I really do hope it is not too late. The implications for the next President's Supreme Court nominations may well be more important than either candidate. One more Roberts, Alito, Scalia or Thomas, and we are going to have a court that will:
Codify that the President is above the law by using the Unitary Executive Theory to uphold some supra-Constitutional executive act; reverse every important social gain going all the way back to Brown. v. Board of Education.
As thinking people, who care about human rights and civil rights we simply have got to find a way to transcend this division.
I hope with all my being that Hillary and Obama can truly come together fro the good of the country. I think they are capable of uniting their followers.
But we will see. . .

It may be. And the more interesting point is, why shouldn't be?

You bring very valid points to the fore. But the Obama frenzy has made it so that no real progressive could possibly vote for him, and I think many Hillary supporters won't either (not that Hillary is a progressive).

To clarify, what you Obama supporters have done is inaugurate and anoint a leader even before the election. But you choose one that is untested, unknown, inexperienced, and preaches a whole lot of vacuous sweet-nothings. It may or may not have occurred to you, but this is exactly what happened with the horror that is George Bush and his administration. Did you learn nothing?

As we look closely, it turns out that you have anointed a moderate, who has done literally nothing to stop the Iraq War financing; has aided in the emasculation of the democratic party with his lethargy and lack of resistance (even though they hold a majority); who voted for the Patriot Act; who voted for Cheney’s energy bill; who has contributed little of energetic proactive policy in environment; who has done nothing in preventing the destruction of the middle class, etc etc.

The fact that Obama and Hillary are nearly IDENTICAL in their voting records should have been enough for all of you cultists to take a harder look months ago. That alone should have set off red flags galore. You had, after all, Dobbs, Biden, Richardson, to choose from – none of whom are lightweights, if not progressives. But what happened? Half you damnocrats picked a moderate Republican corrupted woman, and half picked the guy who has no experience and talked smooth and told everybody what they wanted to hear.

Both are disasters.

So if we REAL progressives steal the election, then I say tough luck. Sometimes things just simply need to get bad, then worse, then ugly, before people learn and they improve. And after Bush, you people did NOT learn. So be it. I vote for reality, for a progressive future, and the coming one-world community, with a clear conscience and no regrets.

Four more years of Republicans will only make people look harder next time. And if Obama gets elected, there will hardly be any difference than if he didn't.

"things just simply need to get bad, then worse, then ugly, before people learn and they improve"

Last time I heard that, Nader voters made GWB President. It's easy to indulge in this childish ultra-left rhetoric when someone else pays the price for your purity -- in this case hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who would otherwise be alive today.

Colin2: “Nader voters made GWB President.

You aren’t very aware, are you?

1. You are suggesting that the '2 party tyranny' should only be challenged when it's "safe" to do so. Which is never.

2. You are suggesting that everybody should be limited to voting for either the greedy neocon fascists or the insipid, timid do-nothing moderate damnocrats. And they are the only choices allowed.

3. Gore lost the election because Gore and the demos couldn’t convince 40% of the electorate to vote. Gore lost the election because he didn’t fight for it and had it stolen from him. Gore lost the election because somehow the demos allowed an unqualified, AWOL, cheerleading moron who never made a dime in his life, convince the country that he was qualified to be president. We didn’t lose it for them. You did.

Colin2: It's easy to indulge in this childish ultra-left rhetoric when someone else pays the price for your purity -- in this case hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who would otherwise be alive today.

Grow up.

1. The demos voted to authorize Iraq; nobody had a gun to their heads. Fear of looking like wimps made them do it. The demos, including Hillary and Obama, voted for the Patriot Act. The demos vote to finance the war every single time.

2. When Boosh administration had an 87% approval rating, it wasn’t ME that gave it to him. The demos did, by adding their approval in with the Republicans.

3. As the Boosh administration was dishonestly setting up the Iraq invasion, the demos said NOTHING to impede the progress or expose the lies of it all.

Put the blame where it belongs, Colin2 – right on your shoulders. You people in your little boxes, so sure of yourselves, never even wondering (thinking) what it looks like on the other side.

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It would be useful to distinguish between Obama and his official campaign, and the media, or a few bad-attitude Obama supporters. No reasonable person, including this Obama supporter, would disagree with you that HRC has had to deal with the unfair headwind of sexism and misogyny. That said, I think there's no evidence that Obama or his campaign have engaged in such behavior.

(It is worth noting that Obama has faced a few headwinds unique to his own history and ethnicity as well.)

One would think that your passion for fairness, and disdain for nasty behavior, name calling, and crude assumptive behavior would be reflected in your own speaking. Apparently not. Show a little humanity towards those who disagree with you, and you might be surprised with what you get in return.

Show a little humanity towards those who disagree with you, and you might be surprised with what you get in return.

I admire your optimism, but on this website - that characteristic seems to get nobody anywhere.

It's becoming quite depressing, really. You try to give a little and hope someone gives a little too, and instead they attack even harder because they think you've shown weakness and they go for the kill.

I've seen it time and time again here, on both sides, and it's really quite discouraging.

I had been an ardent Clinton supporter up to a point.
That point was when I heard Obama's speech to the DNC. That, and the speachless look on Mark Shields face when the camera came back to him in the Newshour booth.
Obama is a kairos man in a kairos moment,,,,,, that sort of thing comes by once in a generation,, once in a lifetime. It is either seized, or lost, never to return again. Think RFK. The Clinton campaign thinks in kronos terms, and has no idea what it's up against,,,,, resistance is futile.
Michelle is coming to speak on campus Wednesday, can hardly wait.
GOBAMA '08

Ondioline - you could have googled it yourself.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/25/nader/index.html?iref=topnews

Here's some more criticisms of the Saviour.

From Black Agenda Report on Obama's DLC connections and discrepencies over Iraq.

http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=529&Itemid=34

Obama, all Israel, all the time.

http://www.tikkun.org/rabbilernerarticles/index_html/view?searchterm=obama%20gaza

Nader in Politico: "It’s all about political backbone,” Nader added. “His party has been gutless, clueless, spineless and he’s got to turn it around. If you look at his Senate record, it’s not reassuring. It’s a relatively mediocre one when it comes to standing up to corporate power.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8664.html

Colin2: Hahahahahah. That's great! Your cult-hero is going to cap it at 36%, and proposed it in February 08! What happened to all the other years he was an activist, a state senator, a US senator? 36% interest cap, gollygee, that'll be a big help. Ha.

Miki;
I may anger some of my fellow Obama supports here-but I think it is important to make this point. Obama is the first one since Bobby to turn on the young people-and I think the core that really got his campaign moving is from that demographic.
The reason I point this out is because when I made that analysis I started to cut them some slack. You know youthful exuberance etc.
Young folks out there-please do not get me wrong-I have been waiting for someone who could turn you on for a very long time! But also, the passion and intensity which may be off putting is somewhat natural from our younger folk.
To wit, I was not quite of age when LBJ announced he would not run again in 1967, but I do remember feeling happy-like we had won a victory.
It was not until many years late that I realize that his withdrawal literally changed the course of U.S. history. We got Nixon instead and almost 40 years of the Rehnquist Court instead of a continuation of the Warren Court. Who knows where we would be had that not happened. Perhaps I may be naive, but I surmise that whole conundrum to be a product of youthful exuberance as well.
I still have hopes that Hillary and Obama are each sincere enough, with the proper dose of selflessness in their mission that they will rise high above this division and bring everyone together.
I have lost much of my affinity for Hillary (I would have happily campaigned for her in 1993!), but I believe at her core she is noble, and I have the same hope for Obama. Surely the two of them know what the stakes are right now.
I for one will be wishing them luck in this post primary unification efforts.

Well, DRW, I do thank you for your thoughtful posts. A different sort of experience here, at Josh’s place. I am an annoying sort of character when I have to deal with kids and naiveté and illusions; which is what you were politely saying with the term, “youthful exuberance”.

All these rabid Hillary and (in particular) Obama fanatics. They’re like little tribes. Know what I mean? It gets very tiresome.

At any rate, you sound like you’re in the wrong party to me. You should think of coming over to the Dark Side. Ha. I think we’re about the same age, roughly. I remember that period too – jesus, 1968 was just the most awful year imaginable.

Which, btw, merges very well with one of my biggest criticisms of Obama: That is, his almost disdainful, contemptuous remarks on disunity, on quarreling and partisan bickering and confrontation and fighting. I mean, come on. Quarreling and partisan confrontation got him a seat in the front of the bus, for god’s sake! It got him a seat at the drugstore counter; it got him a drink out of a white’s only water fountain.
And now to hear it spoken of in such a derisive manner . . . like it was all pointless and artless and unnecessary. Well, I beg to differ, it was damn necessary. And it isn’t over, and all those fascists aren’t going anywhere just because Obama is coming to town.

And you know as well as I do that there is no treating with these people. So when he talks about bridging divides and unifying America and reaching across the aisles and nicing his opponents to death, it’s a bald-faced lie and it won’t be done – can’t be done. I think that alone bugs me more than anything else about him. It’s why I view him as a charlatan; a snakeoil seller; and charismatic healing the cripples under the tent. It’s crap. At least with Hillary you knew what she was. The Obama Tribe hasn’t a clue, and I think are in for a deep shock if he gets to be president.

I’d think you’d have seen through all this, DRW. Anyway, thanks again. I understand your longing for some possibility of change and a person who can generate it. I think it’s delusion, or illusion, but I understand it.

drw3344..."youthful exuberance" could win the nonmination at the expense of losing the general election at the same time. I see too many punks on these types of boards that don't realize that. Pity.

I really do not care that Ralph Nader is running again, and I have never cared that he has run in the past. I figure that anyone who actually cast their vote for him, and thought that he was even going to carry a single state, is not the type of thinker who was going to make a more rational voting choice, absent the fact of not having Ralph to vote for. They would have found some other fringe loon to piss away their vote on just so that they could go around annoying the hell out of rational majority of people with their constant Holier than Thou declarations. Ralph is a perfect fly paper for that sorry lot. Let them go. They were never going to vote for Gore, or Kerry, or Obama. That daft lot alway find some feckless fool to follow.

liam, mr. perspicacious incarnate: "I figure that anyone who actually cast their vote for him, and thought that he was even going to carry a single state"

You don't even understand that none of us ever expects to win a state. Not in this century.

"That daft lot alway find some feckless fool to follow."

Though not as feckless a fool as a democratic centrist, who is morally equivocal, corporatist, ethically compromising, systemically corrupt, mundane and mediocre . . . which is who you guys are squealing about. Either one of them, for that matter.

Miki, I used to work for CALPIRG. I've met Ralph Nader.

Hell, I campaigned for him back in 1996 when he actually had a point about Clinton and Dole.

But unless you've been asleep the last 8 years, I can't understand how any so called progressive could overlook the strongest populist candidate we've ever had (Obama) and risk giving hypocrite John McCain the Presidency.

Hell, I know some Republicans who are so scared of McCain, they're goign to vote for uber-liberal Obama.

But, whatever. Your voice, your vote. Just don't blame us when McCain invades Iran.

"Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" - John McCain

Oh, yeah, and I meant to add:

Read Barack Obama's book, "Dreams of My Father". He's not some idiotic idealist.

He's seen the ugly side of racism first hand. Hell, his parent's marriage would have been illegal in some states at the time.

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She's all done. Hillary is toast. With her finally out of the way, this campaign can finally begin.

I hope once Hillary drops out, people will take the time to look at Obama's record, and realize he is the TRUE progressive.

In any case, Obama will have little trouble defeating a McCain no conservative will vote for.

I live in San Antonio, and even today Huckleberry is on the airwaves, saying he's going all the way to the convention.

With any luck, Texas could go Blue at this rate.

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I understand what you're saying. There are some people out there that will never, ever, change their ways, and will always be nasty towards those they disagree with. Bu not all people are like that. I've known some genuinely religious conservative types who are hard-core Republicans - and they're really nice people too. When I set aside my attack mode, and just listen to what they have to say, the guard goes down. They talk about their concerns, fears, beliefs from a heartfelt place. I don't usually end up in agreement, but I get a deeper understanding for what motivates them... even a little compassion. In that setting, if they're open to a conversation about it, we can talk calmly about other ways of seeing things. (Usually, the Socratic method works best. Keep asking questions instead of making accusations or bold assertions. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.) In the end, there are many people I've known who have political positions in opposition to mine, and we can talk about it in a respectful way... and sometimes even end up being friends. It does happen... sometimes.

The temptation to revel in apparent victory has brought down more than one winning candidate. There is no reason for Senator Clinton to withdraw. Senator Obama is clearly leading, but that can change. Stranger things have happened.

I'm more concerned with seeing a positive campaign from both contenders. Don't provide fodder for Senator McCain and the Republican slime machine. I voted for Obama, but some of the exultation gets annoying and I'm quite certain it will cost him votes if it continues.

You got that right danimal. I came into this campaign season leaning to Clinton but ready to happily vote for Obama if that's the way it went. I believe that Obama has won the nomination but I've been alienated by his supporters big time. Is this a group I want to be associated with?

Not based on what I've seen to date.

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"Which, btw, merges very well with one of my biggest criticisms of Obama: That is, his almost disdainful, contemptuous remarks on disunity, on quarreling and partisan bickering and confrontation and fighting. I mean, come on. Quarreling and partisan confrontation got him a seat in the front of the bus, for god’s sake! It got him a seat at the drugstore counter; it got him a drink out of a white’s only water fountain.
And now to hear it spoken of in such a derisive manner . . . like it was all pointless and artless and unnecessary. Well, I beg to differ, it was damn necessary. And it isn’t over, and all those fascists aren’t going anywhere just because Obama is coming to town."

miki, you and I must live in a different country. We were raised with a much different set of lessons to be drawn from the civil rights era. You think the sit-ins and strikes and marches were about petty divisions and partisanship? And you think we're in the same place now, as a nation, that we were in the sixties? It's 2008. It's not the sixties. And Ralph Nader is not Rosa, Martin, Malcolm, or half the measure of any of the other giants of that era. You come into this discussion talking about how annoyed you are with Obama's supporters, and how naive we are, and how foolishly we're being led around by the nose. That's productive.

Maybe you're right about all of it. And maybe you can make your points so clearly to the people to whom you reach out that Ralph Nader will generate the same enthusiasm that Obama has done. Maybe Ralph will have a network of a million donors and thousands of grassroots volunteers in just a little while. Nader has a lot of ideas and a lot of experience, so maybe he'll be able to "speak truth to power" as the tired cliche goes, along the road to 1600 Penn. I'm sure he'll be able to enlighten us as to the folly of our ways. Or maybe he'll be a footnote in the history of yet another campaign.

Somebody asked me, as an Obama supporter, how I felt about Nader getting in the race on Sunday. I'll tell you what I told them: I welcome it. Barack Obama is about to make history. His supporters are going to help him do it. And we're going to enjoy watching a lot of smug people eat their words over the next, ohhh... 8 years. And when my grandchildren ask me to look back on this time in American history, I'm going to say "Barack Obama made history. He made history out of Hillary Clinton. Then he made history out of John McCain and Ralph Nader."

Barack Obama is about to make history. His supporters are going to help him do it. And we're going to enjoy watching a lot of smug people eat their words over the next, ohhh... 8 years. And when my grandchildren ask me to look back on this time in American history, I'm going to say "Barack Obama made history. He made history out of Hillary Clinton. Then he made history out of John McCain and Ralph Nader."

Wow! Not a single mention of a significant policy advance to those grandkids. Not much of a lesson. Just some sort of sophmoric self satisfaction for winning the election?

And, if I could add...your grandkids aren't going to ask you about it. Should Obama win, you're going to have to force them to listen to you. Should Obama lose, your grandkids won't hear anything from you about this 'historic moment'.

What goes up must come down
spinning wheel got to go round
Talking about your troubles it's a crying sin
Ride a painted pony
Let the spinning wheel spin

You got no money, and you, you got no home
Spinning wheel all alone
Talking about your troubles and you, you never learn
Ride a painted pony
let the spinning wheel turn

Did you find a directing sign
on the straight and narrow highway?
Would you mind a reflecting sign
Just let it shine within your mind
And show you the colours that are real

Someone is waiting just for you
spinning wheel is spinning true
Drop all your troubles, by the river side
Catch a painted pony
On the spinning wheel ride

Someone is waiting just for you
spinning wheel is spinning true
Drop all your troubles, by the river side
Ride a painted pony
Let the spinning wheel fly

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