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Rasmussen: Obama Still Ahead In South Carolina
This morning's Rasmussen poll in South Carolina, conducted yesterday, does not show a post-New Hampshire bounce for Hillary Clinton. Instead, Barack Obama leads by the same margin as he did in the Rasmussen poll conducted on Sunday:
Obama 42% (+0)
Clinton 30% (+0)
Edwards 15% (+1)
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Wow. That's great news! I think that if Obama wins Nevada, and then goes on to win South Carolina by double digits, he can really nullify the New Hampshire loss and go strong into Feb 5th.
January 10, 2008 10:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the link, but what I'd really love to see are the cross-tabs - particularly for age, race, and gender. Eric, does TPM have a premium membership? Does anyone else who reads this blog?
My specific questions are (1) Obama's margin among black voters (2) Hillary's margin with women and (3) the age divide at which support tips from Obama to Hillary.
Bueller, Bueller, Anyone, Bueller?
January 10, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I think that if Obama wins Nevada, and then goes on to win South Carolina by double digits..."
Don't forget about the primary, which is in Michigan. If takes that, that just piles on. If he doesn't, I don't think that it would hurt him that much.
January 10, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
M Miller, there is no michigan primary as far as the democratic party is concerned. Neither he nor edwards are on the ballot and clinton, in defiance of the party, is on the ballot and losing to a candidate named "uncommitted."
January 10, 2008 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Miller,
He ain't on the ballot in Michigan. Neither is Edwards. And that's because Michigan broke the rules, so they don't get no delegates.
As for double-digit margins, I should have hoped that Obama supporters would have learned their lesson in New Hampshire. Set the expectations at the levels that matter - a win's a win, a loss is a loss, and what really matters is the delegate count.
January 10, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
The worst news in this poll is that McCain is ahead in SC.
January 10, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd wait a day or two before deciding on any NH bounce.
-- Mark Penn
January 10, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd wait at least another day before assessing any possible NH bounce.
-- Mark Penn
January 10, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not trying to knock the reporting here, but this type of talk just reinforces the media narrative of this being a 2-person race. Edwards has seen the largest national bounce of all candidates since voting began in on Jan 3rd. But, we never hear about that, do we? Edwards is gonna stay in the race thru the summer and get to play kingmaker at the convention (assuming a tight race b/w Obama and Clinton leaving both without a majority of delegates). People better take him seriously because his one vote will potentially be more powerful than half of the democratic population of the US.
January 10, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
"There is no Iowa bounce."
-Mark Penn
"I'm a big, fat, union busting prick with the charisma of a headless cockroach."
-Mark Penn
Have you ever seen this guy talk? If no, then I understand why you would quote him.
January 10, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can someone explain to me what the comment above meant about Edwards? Does he actually have the ability to "give" his delegates to one candidate or another? And does this only happen if neither gets a majority?
January 10, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
But how can Obama take Michigan? He is not even on the ballot there. It seems to me that the best that we Obama supporters can hope for in MI is that "Uncommitted" beats out Sen Clinton, simply on the logic that the bad press ink might do her a mischief going into Super Tues.
January 10, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Last I heard Obama had 69% of the African American vote, but I can only imagine that will grow, especially if they get wind of Hillary's MLK Jr. comments, that will kill her in the AA community. Luckily for her though, the "rabid anti-Hillary media" didn't really report on her MLK Jr. comments, so she might get a free pass on that.
Anyway, hopefully Obama supporters in NV and SC won't get too comfortable and forget to go vote again, if nothing else I think NH taught people that nothing can be taken for granted. I'll just be glad when winter break is over because it only helps Hillary when young people aren't around to vote.
January 10, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Matt,
What on earth are you talking about? Take a look at the Rasmussen daily tracking poll. Edwards enjoyed a brief post-Iowa bounce, up to 23% on the 6th. But since then, his support has plummeted, and it's now down to 15% nationally. In South Carolina, where he's now placing all of his resources, he's running steadily at half of Hillary's support, and roughly a third of Obama's.
There's an old saying that presidential candidates never withdraw, they just run out of money and call a press conference. Edwards hasn't (yet) run out of cash, but that's all that's keeping him in the race.
January 10, 2008 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jenna,
All that anyone has over their delegates is moral suasion - even the formal pledges aren't legally binding. (Yes, that's right. Every voter in a given district can elect a pledged delegate for a certain candidate, and there's nothing but conscience - and regard for their political future - to prevent that delegate from voting the other way.)
If this thing isn't locked up before the convention, all bets are off. There will be incredible pressure applied to all delegates to switch their votes. Edwards will have some impact on his delegates, to be sure - they're chosen, among other things, for loyalty. But the more typical response of candidates (back when this used to happen) would be to turn their delegates loose - in part to avoid the humiliation of being ignored.
But consider this. Edwards delegates are, by definition, anti-establishment. If they bought into a Hillary candidacy, they would have endorsed her. If he stays in until the convetion - an unlikely outcome, by any measure - his delegates are overhelmingly likely to support Obama on the second ballot.
January 10, 2008 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Cynic, unless I am reading Edwards wrong, he is basically pledging to stay in it through the convention. I think it makes sense for him to do so, regardless of how little cash he has. He can be a convention VP.
January 10, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bupalos,
Yes, that's what he's pledging. But that's what every candidatepledges, right up until they announce their withdrawal. What's he supposed to say: "I'm not certain what I'll be doing?" "I'll withdraw if I continue to get whipped?" "Donate funds, and maybe I'll be viable?"
If he breaks his pledge, donors and voters might hold it against him - but of course, that wouldn't matter, because he wouldn't be running, and he ain't gonna run a third time.
So you'll forgive me if I take his protestations with a grain of salt. If Edwards comes in a distant third in his neighboring state of South Carolina, that's all she wrote.
January 10, 2008 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hi, I'm Clinton Bush VI, and I'm here to say ARE YOU NUTS?!!! If you vote for someone other than Clinton Bush in SC, do you realize that could mean that someone other than Clinton Bush could become president? The world is not ready for a non Clinton Bush president!! Maybe in 8 years, but come on, be reasonable people.
January 10, 2008 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let me put it to you straight. Blacks in SC will NOT vote for Barack Obama because they are like lemmings when it comes to the Clintons. All Bill CLinton has to do is come to a few black churches, sing a few spirituals and have HRC address the crowd woith a southern drawl.And as a philandering husband, re-affirm his place as the nations first "black President".
Pathetic!
January 10, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Usually it seems to me they just say they are going to keep fighting, list off a bunch of states, maybe scream yee-haw at the end....
Edwards seems a little more specific. And the reason I kind of believe him is that it makes sense. This looks like it might be a delegate squeeker, and he could really do some old-fashioned horse trading.
January 10, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Look people, I'm the comeback kid!! You thought you were rid of me in 2004 and now in this primary...well not so fast! Just be reasonable, give up your childish fairy tales about non-Clinton Bush presidents, and we'll all be fine and the terrorists will leave us alone. In return, I'll use my vast talents to hand out little presents like 30% reductions in force levels in Iraq and universal pre-k for anyone who can pay to enroll their child in pre-k. I'll even wrap them up for you with bows on top and videotape it. Because I just give and give, ah, sometimes so much so that it hurts trying so hard to help you little people. It's hard being so wonderful.
January 10, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton is running the most racist campaign of any candidate this side of Tom Tancredo:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/Dept_of_word_choice.html
January 10, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've got my new new campaign slogan folks:
"35 More Years of Change You can Believe In and Be Ready For."
What do you think? Should I add something about MLK being a do-nothing talker?
January 10, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damn. I just realized the grammar in those slogans is "whack," as the kids say. Here's the new new new formulation:
"35 More Years of Change In Which You can Believe and For Which I am Ready and Vetted."
I thought I'd put in that "vetted" thing to remind people that I'm not a drug pusher. Not that anyone is. Just saying.
January 10, 2008 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Michael A.
Once again, as usual, you're talking out of your orifice when you say Clinton is in defiance of the Democratic Party by remaining on the ballot in Michigan (along with Dennis Kucinich). This was never asked for by the party, only that candidates not campaign there.
But facts are a sticky thing with some of you and other Obama supporters here. Why don't you just ignore this one like you choose to ignore Clinton's superior record of acoomplishment and work ethic in the Senate.
January 10, 2008 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Zulu Dar-
In the midst of your incoherent ramblings, I detect a racist tone that has no place in this conversation or in any conversation, for that matter.
It's all over-
You're right, the bounce was short-lived. But, at any point, did you ever hear about this in the media? Perhaps if the MSM hadn't framed this race as a "mano a mano" competition, more people would give Edwards a look. Instead he is cast aside like an ugly stepchild and rarely talked about.
But, if he keeps getting half of what Obama and Clinton are getting in terms of votes, he will be the kingmaker in Denver. He doesnt need to win any state to shift the nominee's platform at the convention and beyond in exchange for releasing his delegates to another candidate.
January 10, 2008 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that McCain possibly winning SC is a problem. I never expected him to take that state. I though McCain would take MI, knocking Romney out, and then Huck would take SC, knocking Thompson out. Even if Rudy win FL, which I doubt now, it won't be a landslide. Then, I figured that McCain and Huck would divvy up super Tuesday, knocking Rudy out (McCain taking the SW and moderate states, Huck taking the south). But it McCain wins MI and SC, and possibly FL, he might be unstoppable. This is bad news because he is the only Repug who polls well against the Dems, beating Hillary in most purple state matchups. Grudgingly, I have to admit that Obama appears to have abetter chance against McCain—now. Not sure how he'll hold up on the experience issue in the real contest, though. Unlike Hillary, there is no question that McCain has been around the block. But if McCain does win those three states, I might have to vote for Obama on Super Tuesday because I have serious doubts that Hillary can beat McCain. OMG, did I just write that? Ya, my position is always a pragmatic one. I couldn't care less about ideology or any other purist notion. I don't think Obama is the best choice, but if he is the one who can win, I'll bite the bullet.
January 10, 2008 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
YOU might want to add that they are probably wrong and not a accurate indicators of Senator Clintons support at all, Bradely etal, election fixing, that goof Zogby last night, geezh but for some reason we are supposed to believe the only female in the race can not be polled accurately, BULL ignore them.
January 10, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Colonpowwow, yep I agree facts are nasty things, like your repeating the glorious conclusion about your fearless leader's senate record and "experience" ad nauseum. I don't buy into the propaganda tactic of repeating the same lie over and over again so that people ultimately believe it, that's why I want facts, not rosy conclusions.
Facts: Clinton appearance on NPR, when in a half hearted way a reporter pushed her to talk about some of her crowning achievements in the senate, and the "change" for america that she brought about. Clinton's answer was that she marshalled schip through the senate as a senator. Wrong answer, schip was marshalled through the senate in the nineties, before she was a senator. Also, she credited herself with the passage of a national guard healthcare program, which obviously is a good thing. That's it!!!!! Nothing, but she has 35 years of bringing change. She is a change-agent. Give me a break. She was too busy preparing to run for president and voting to invade a country and kill hundreds of thousands of innocent americans and iraqis for political purposes and based on lies.
On another note, I find it extraordinarily interesting that the clinton people are pushing the michigan primary now. Hmmmm, I bet she tries to make a big splash if she can defeat that "uncommitted" candidate. Too funny.
January 10, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
What experience issue? Is there any actual evidence to suggest that large numbers of actual voters pay any attention to experience. I grant that my big hesitation about Obama was his lack of experience, but here I am voting for him and I am sure that there are an awful lot of folks like me in that respect. Reagan won over Carter, despite the fact that Carter obviously had more experience as president. Clinton won over GHW Bush, despite the fact that Bush obviously had more experience being president. GW Bush won over Gore even though Gore was arguably much more experienced than Bush.
It seems to me that voters' choices are driven, in large measure, by factors that have almost nothing whatever to do with an candidates actual abilities (GW Bush being exhibit A for that case). I am just not convinced in the least that in a McCain vs Obama match-up that "experience" will count against Obama in the least. This is not to say, mind you, that I think that McCain would not be a formidable competitor; just that his strengths as a candidate lie elsewhere than his experience.
January 10, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
We seem to have flattened off here. Clinton isn't falling, Obama isn't climbing and no one appears to have picked up any of Biden, Dodd or Richardson's support yet. That's probably another 8-10% back in the undecided column.
January 10, 2008 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just spoke to my wifes large family in SC and they are full-on Clinton supporters (oh my wife is African-American). I asked why and they said "they have had enough preachers roll through town....been there and done that. Just balance the budget and leave the inspiration to us". They almost seem resentful...Just my small sample.
January 10, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
colonpowwow spins about Mrs. Bill "Clinton's superior record of acoomplishment and work ethic in the Senate."
I thought Hillary had found her voice. I thought all the spinning and exageration and claiming experience and accomplishments that don't exist was over. I thought after her epiphany in NH and cleansing tears Hillary was going authentic.
But here we go with colopowwow taking up the attack dog role, making claims any observant, honest person knows are false, and trying to bully people into accepting that opinion.
Well, so much for Hillary's own voice. Still sounds like shrill, cackling lies to me.
Oops. I forgot about the Hollywood coached welling of tears, sincerity, give me sympathy initative. So the Hillary brigade says "I feel sooooo sorry for her. Poor thing. C'mon girls lets get the Hagen Daaz, have a good cry and vote for poor badgered, abused Hillary to be president of the United States and leader of the world."
What a joke.
January 10, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary and Bill continue to play the victim card. Do we really want to elect her president because she and Bill think she has been dealt with unfairly. Are Iran, North Korea, Russia, China (oops scrap China, the Clintons are already on the take from China), going to go easy in the United States because they might be called sexist for ganging up on Hillary? A person is either qualified for the presidency on HER or his own merits or not. Nepotism gave us our current disater of a president. We need some one honest and qualified to succeed him. Hillary is not that person for so many reasons.
January 10, 2008 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Shouldn't you guys learn your lesson and start including the "Undecided" number in these poll listings? It's so deceptive and really contributes to false media storylines and internet gossip.
That's 13% undecided! Come on! How about some responsible poll reporting, TPM?!!
January 10, 2008 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the correction, everyone. I don't know if I like the idea that the states that want to vote first get punished. The people in those states are disenfranchised. People in a few states matter more to the Democrats and Republicans than others.
Just another reason why I'm an independent. Just another reason why people don't care about getting involved.
Why don't they shuffle it up as in giving different states the option to be first? Iowa and NH are pretty much down the middle and swing states just as WI, MN, WA, PA, OH, FL, MO.
In my state I doubt I'll be voting in the primary since we are approx 43rd in the country to vote. I doubt it will go that long and what's the use in voting if its all over anyhow?
January 11, 2008 1:56 AM | Reply | Permalink