Poll: Nevada Dems Value Change Over Experience

Comments (31)

grover_rover wrote on January 15, 2008 9:40 AM:

Sounds like a lot of people are starting to realize that Hillary doesn't actually have exceptional experience like she says she does. It is amazing what you can learn if you actually question the details and look past the surface!

She picked the losing bet when she ran on experience with a fluffed resume.

Mary wrote on January 15, 2008 10:12 AM:

Well I think people can see the Hillary camp is "Washington as usual". In WaPo today they have a little tidbit of BET founder Johnson from "doing something in the neighborhood" fame.
You can't be an agent for "change" in Washington when you are practicing the "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" -

From WaPo:
After Bill Clinton left office, he and Johnson traded professional favors, Johnson said. When Johnson was bidding to buy the Charlotte Bobcats NBA team, he asked Clinton to call league Commissioner David Stern and put in a good word for him, which Clinton did.

Likewise, when Hillary Clinton was considering her presidential run in late 2006, Johnson got a call from her staff, asking if she and her husband could use Johnson's vacation home in Anguilla. Johnson said he was staying there at the time but left to make room for the Clintons.

Hillary and Bill Clinton - The only change they will bring is different people to exchange favors with.

grover_rover wrote on January 15, 2008 10:29 AM:

Not to mention Johnson was a BIG beneficiary of the media deregulation that started with Reagan and flowed through Bush Sr and was continued by Bill Clinton, media deregulation that was devastating to minority media ownership, but devastatingly beneficial for Johnson, who already had BET, and now has a virtual monopoly on minority media thanks to conservative deregulation. Yeah, the Clintons were all about helping African Americans, as long as they were corporate execs and not impoverished (see: Welfare "Reform").

Yeah, thanks Bill!

whowouldjesusbomb? wrote on January 15, 2008 10:40 AM:

And let's face it, people call Bill our "first black president" not because he was sooo giving toward African Americans, but because he smoked weed and got his d*** sucked in the Oval Office. The media always tries to explain it as because of his pro-AA policies, but if that were the case there were many presidents pre-Clinton that we "blacker". They say he was "black" because of the drug use and adultery, and for the majority of the population that is what comes to mind when people mention Bill as the "first black president". The whole thing reeks of racism and is horribly disrespectful toward the black community. I'm obviously not saying that Bill or Hillary coined the term, but they certainly have been rolling with it and have taken for granted that Bill has cred with the African American community.

Likewise, Johnson has made his livelihood from exploiting every harmful stereotype of "black culture", promoting misogyny and violence within black communities, and broadcasting this image and fear of blacks into white consciousness. He is a despicable character and has no right to speak for or to the African American community. If Bill and Hillary actually knew anything about African Americans they would know this, or worse yet, they DO know this yet they chose to cultivate this opportunistic relationship with such a scumbag to try to get ahead politically.

AlwaysTipTheWaitress wrote on January 15, 2008 10:52 AM:

It is interesting that the "women and children" first candidate finds a great champion in this fellow. When my kids were younger, his was one channel that I monitored carefully because so much of its content was so sexist and crude. This is the "neighborhood" that the Clintons chose to play in.

BluePuppy wrote on January 15, 2008 10:56 AM:

I love the smell of hate filled drivel in the morning.

Richard L. Adlof wrote on January 15, 2008 11:01 AM:

A judge is forcing GE to let Kucinich into the debate . . . Now that is change.

NCSteve wrote on January 15, 2008 11:09 AM:

Actually, Iowa taught us not to take these things too seriously as well.

Bluepuppy, I love the smell of a pot of soup simmering away. That's why I make it often.

rachelrachel wrote on January 15, 2008 11:10 AM:

And let's face it, people call Bill our "first black president" not because he was sooo giving toward African Americans, but because he smoked weed and got his d*** sucked in the Oval Office.

Black writer Toni Morrison was the first, I think, to call him that. Do you think that's what she had in mind?

Michael A wrote on January 15, 2008 11:13 AM:

I agree with the last statement in the post. We will see on saturday. I wonder if the clintons will succeed in suppressing the vote. Maybe they'll start complaining about students getting involved in the political process as well. Horrors or horrors, people actually voting. We can't have that in bush-clinton-bush-clinton-bush-bush-clinton . . . . america can we.

grover_rover wrote on January 15, 2008 11:14 AM:

Awww, poor BluePuppy hates facts and reality in the morning.

What? Aren't you going to try to defend Bob Johnson? Aren't you going to try to say that he was referring to "community organizing"? Aren't you going to tell us how wholesome BET is and how great an advocate for African Americans he is? I expected more from you, this isn't your MO. What happened to defending Hillary at all costs no matter the facts and no matter how dirty her campaign gets? You aren't seriously just going to make a comment about "drivel" and leave it at that are you? C'mmoonnn, Bob Johnson is a regular Mr. Rogers isn't he?

green heron wrote on January 15, 2008 11:15 AM:

Obama is a star, Hillary a bore. The voters of Nevada can see this. New Hampshire was a fluke.

Anonymous wrote on January 15, 2008 11:29 AM:

Well unfortunately, this is not change, Jim McTague from Barron's on CSPAN this morning, of course favoring the Republicans economic stimulus plans and hating Hillary's the worst, speaks favorably of Obama's as it is "almost Republican" in his words. Though I don't think I have to worry much, while this would be damning for other Dems, Obama is safe to campaign from the right as he has a solid lock on progressives regardless of where he stands on the issues.

John McCutchen wrote on January 15, 2008 11:30 AM:

We'll indeed see on Saturday Eric how well those 1600 Obama volunteers do helping out the NV ground operation.

Fired Up? Ready to go to Nevada?

What happens in Vegas, won't stay in Vegas

http://obamasf.wordpress.com

Greg DeLassus wrote on January 15, 2008 11:33 AM:

I have said it before and I will say it again though it gives me no great pleasure to do so - no one is doing Sen Obama any great favors by hurling slurs against Sen & Pres Clinton. When our man takes the nomination, my dear fellows in the Obama camp, we will need Clinton's supporters to win the GE. Disgustingly off-color swipes at Pres Clinton's adultery and rude dismissals of Sen Clinton's largely admirable record of public service do nothing to advance the long-term interests of our man. Sen Obama is better than this, and we should be too.

whowouldjesusbomb? wrote on January 15, 2008 11:37 AM:

rachelrachel, I'm sure she didn't mean it in that way, but that doesn't mean that that is what the title has come to mean for a large portion of our society. Certainly looking at his record, I don't see any reason to single him out a hero of African Americans because he didn't actually do that much for them. Indeed, as I previously mentioned, many of Clinton's major policies had adverse effects on African Americans, and minorities in general. The alliance with Bob Johnson is yet another example of how he is "black" only to the extent to which he wants African American support, without regard for the finer considerations of what Bob Johnson represents, and how harmful Johnson has been to African American image, not to mention his lack of understanding or care when it comes to the effects of his own policies on minorities. So my point remains, Clinton doesn't deserve to be called "the first black president" based on his policies and record. And when many people use the phrase "first black president" they don't mean it in a good way, regardless of the original intent, for many people it means that he acted like a "gangsta" or "pimp", that he smoked weed, didn't have a problem with that, and then got head in the Oval Office, among other things, and then lied about it all. THAT is the popular, non-political, conception of his title "first black president", which is obviously horrible and racist (yet I'm sure it would fit in quite well with BET). Now once again, I'm not saying Hillary or Bill came up with it in the first place. I was simply discussing this phrase that has bee thrown around this entire campaign as the Clintons have fought Obama for the black vote.

John McCutchen wrote on January 15, 2008 11:43 AM:

They're terrifed of running with Hillary at the top of the ticket.

Will Webb endorse Obama?????

Red-state Dems sour on Clinton
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0108/7892.html

As Josh Marshall said there has to be a good reason for all those pols to kick the Clintons.

That's it

eric wrote on January 15, 2008 11:45 AM:

Greg DeLassus wrote on January 15, 2008 11:33 AM:
I have said it before and I will say it again though it gives me no great pleasure to do so - no one is doing Sen Obama any great favors by hurling slurs against Sen & Pres Clinton. When our man takes the nomination, my dear fellows in the Obama camp, we will need Clinton's supporters to win the GE. Disgustingly off-color swipes at Pres Clinton's adultery and rude dismissals of Sen Clinton's largely admirable record of public service do nothing to advance the long-term interests of our man. Sen Obama is better than this, and we should be too.

Good advice.

lombard wrote on January 15, 2008 11:46 AM:

Greg DeLassus,

You are correct, of course, Obama the candidate does deserve better than the conduct of some of his supporters.

However, an underreported aspect of this campaign is the the Obama candidacy has stoked generational resentment. The generational resentment is not based purely on one generation of Americans vs. another but also dismisses the accomplishments of older, established Democratic leaders (See Barney Frank's recent article for a reaction to this message). I don't fault Obama for trying to energize followers with a message of freshness vs. reverence for elder statesmen, but the problem is that too many of his followers believe this message a little too seriously and have become almost abusively ideological in their contempt.

BluePuppy wrote on January 15, 2008 11:49 AM:

"Aren't you going to try to defend Bob Johnson?"

No.

Will you defend the Obama campaign calling Hillary the Senator of Punjab?

Will you defend Jesse Jackson Jr.'s obvious sexist race-baiting?

BluePuppy wrote on January 15, 2008 11:52 AM:

"Disgustingly off-color swipes at Pres Clinton's adultery and rude dismissals of Sen Clinton's largely admirable record of public service do nothing to advance the long-term interests of our man."

Greg DeLassus, that's the most responsible and adult statement I've heard on TPM in months.

lombard wrote on January 15, 2008 11:55 AM:

Bob Johnson?

From what I understand, Bob Johnson is a billionaire. Who exactly can control a billionaire? They can say whatever they want without really suffering the consequences. Do you think any campaign could effectively control Ross Perot if he decided to appear publically in support of one?

Michael A wrote on January 15, 2008 12:09 PM:

Very well said gregg.

Bluepuppy too funny. Compare your 11:49 post with your 11:52 post. I guess its one of those do as I say, but don't do as I do moments. Better head back to hillaryis44.org. Fascinating website. I would highly recommend it to everyone to see the type of president that clinton will be and the type of campaign she is running, but not really, but might be, but maybe not.

stlounick wrote on January 15, 2008 12:27 PM:

for rachelrachel:

"Clinton," Morrison wrote in the 1998 New Yorker essay, "displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald's-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas."

DonnaG wrote on January 15, 2008 12:29 PM:

Speaking of Nevada, here it is Tuesday before the caucus, and no further public information is out about that lawsuit that was filed last Friday to try to stop the caucusing at the hotels.

I found an interesting take at the Election Law website which said the legal term 'laches' should apply to this case, so looked up that term:
"LACHES, DOCTRINE OF - Based on the maxim that equity aids the vigilant and not those who procrastinate regarding their rights; Neglect to assert a right or claim that, together with lapse of time and other circumstances, prejudices an adverse party. Neglecting to do what should or could, have been done to assert a claim or right for an unreasonable and unjustified time causing disadvantage to another."

I think this legal term does mirror what a lot of folks were thinking, i.e., why wait months and file suit 8 days before the event, and how could that be fair?

BluePuppy wrote on January 15, 2008 12:37 PM:

Michael A, there was nothing incongruent about my posts. I think you need some of what I’m smoking.

tony1161 wrote on January 15, 2008 3:38 PM:

The bottom line is where they stand on the Issue and what they have done in the past.Hillary chose to work in the Children defense fund in the poorest places in the south with Elderman a BLACK female. That was in 1971!!!!! After she graduated top of her class in Yale.and could have landed a lucrative job in any white shoe law firm.Obama was in his teen and he explained what he was doing at that time in his own words.and yes that was what GWB was doing in his younger days as well. with Obama,tell me,WHERE'S the BEEF?2 years of no significant legislation in the senate and he COMPARE himself to someone that was beaten ,jailed and killed for his beliefs???? OBAMA IS NO MLK!!! NOT EVEN CLOSE. More like JESSE JACKSON WITH A HARVARD DEGREE.

Boyddollar wrote on January 15, 2008 4:21 PM:

Do we forget that President Clinton was accused of having father a Black Son. The child in question looked like Bill Clinton when the shocking news came out some years ago. Bill Clinton got out of that Lawsuit, maybe, the mother of the child can get a DNA test and really see how black Bill Clinton is.

Katie wrote on January 15, 2008 5:01 PM:

The recount in NH is tommorow and it will be interesting to see how that turns out since I am not totally convinced that the exit polls and the polling was not accurate.Soo I will see what happens there before I totally dismiss the polls.

Its about the future stupid wrote on January 15, 2008 5:55 PM:

Hill's 527 friend afscme is dumping all sorts of cash in nevada: 90k on 3 mailers since friday last week and nearly 225k on a new tv ad buy that they just signed up for today.

PulSamsara wrote on January 16, 2008 1:25 AM:

Obama for President.

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