Obama: Hillary's Martin Luther King Remark Not "Racial" Comment
Barack Obama takes steps to defuse the racial and political tensions that have been uncorked by the battle between Hillary and himself over the meaning of recent remarks by the Clintons:
"I don't think it was in any way a racial comment," Obama told ABC News. "That's something that has played out in the press. That's not my view."But, he said, the comment was revealing about her political character. "I do think it was indicative of the perspective that she brings, which is that what happens in Washington is more important than what happens outside of Washington," he said.
He said he believes the quote betrays a belief on her part, "that the intricacies of the legislative process were somehow more significant than when ordinary people rise up and march and go to jail and fight for justice."
He called that a "fundamental difference" between them.
Late Update: Since we could all use some comic relief from all this right about now, here's an amusingly misleading headline from CNN about all this.















That is an absolutely brilliant response.
January 14, 2008 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wasn't this really a battle between Clinton and the media? I mean, this is the first comment he's made on her comments, so it's a little disingenous to paint this as him and Clinton. At least in my view.
January 14, 2008 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
He really nailed it. I do think there have been other racially insensitive comments from the Clinton campaign, but that one wasn't one of them. It was just dumb more than anything.
January 14, 2008 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
but thats not what she said.. while Obama was missing 1/3 of his votes during the 2005-2006 session running for president before he announed, hillary was working her ass off in the senate and running for reelection. But yes, the fact that Obama was chillin with Oprah and hanging out with other celebs means his kind of hope = MLKs. You know because MLK was only beaten, but thats beside the point.
OBAMA = hope without work ethic = hype.
January 14, 2008 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reporter: Giuliani tossed my crying baby 'like a football'
January 14, 2008 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Um, can you say Clinton playbook, first she cries then she jabs, first he says, it's not racial, then he jabs.
January 14, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anonymous -- clinton was the one stupid enough to suggestion " what happens in Washington is more important than what happens outside of Washington," .
What does that have at all to do with race?
January 14, 2008 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
obamahype: you do know that it's possible to trace your IP address back to GOP headquarters, right?
January 14, 2008 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
The main problem with Hillary's comment from a strategic point of view was that it set up the election as one between LBJ and MLK.
Faced with that choice, who would you vote for?
January 14, 2008 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is about as convincing as when George Bush told the Swift Boat folks to stop. In the same breath as supposedly saying it's not racial, he reinforces exactly what the charge of racism was.
Also Obama said this just yesterday:
"But Sen. Clinton made an unfortunate remark, an ill-advised remark, about King and Lyndon Johnson. I didn't make the statement. I haven't remarked on it. And she, I think, offended some folks who felt that somehow diminished King's role in bringing about the Civil Rights Act. She is free to explain that. But the notion that somehow this is our doing is ludicrous."
Nor is this the first time his campaign pushed this. His campaign drafted a memo in South Carolina listing a number of times when they claim Clinton campaign officials made race-baiting remarks, and his campaign spokesperson Candice Tolliver suggested that there was a "pattern" of race-baiting behavior.
So unless Obama disavows or fires the people who did this, I don't believe his statement here. Nor will I stand by silently while good people of good will have their names slandered by outlandish charges of prejudice and race-baiting.
January 14, 2008 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
In a dictatorship it take president to make change happen but in a democraship People make change.
Example why the immigration reform proposed by the current president couldn’t pass?
What about the fight of Nelson Mandala with 25 years in jail?
January 14, 2008 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a Republican I am glad to see HRC struggling with the politically correct mess that is her party's base. I think the term is blowback. And let me add that I really do welcome the Democrats making Obama their nominee.
January 14, 2008 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
TPM has this link posted on the home page.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/clinton-recieve.html
The report contains this utterly stupid utterance by the candidate herself.
“I remember hearing him [MLK] speak when I went with my church in downtown Chicago to go and hear and see for myself someone who had burst through the stereotypes and the caricatures who could not be held back by being beaten or gassed or jailed.”
WTF? Whose “stereotypes” and “caricatures” ? Hers?
January 14, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have seen a tone on the Democrat[ic] side of the campaign that has been unfortunate. I want to stipulate a couple of things. I may disagree with Senator Clinton and Senator Edwards on how to get there, but we share the same goals. We all believe in civil rights. We all believe in equal rights. They are good people. They are patriots....
I don't want the campaign at this stage to degenerate to so much tit-for-tat, back-and-forth, that we lose sight of why we are doing this.
Obama said he wants to send "a strong signal to my own supporters that let’s try to focus on the work that needs to get done. If I hear my own supporters engaging in talk that I think is ungenerous or misleading or unfair, I will speak out forcefully against it....
Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton have historically been on the right side of civil rights issues. They care about the African American community.… That is something I am convinced of. I want Americans to know that is my assessment.
January 14, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is there something going on with your formatting at the moment? None of the TPM posts are word wrapping for me, and your graphics are above the text, which makes it impossible to figure out what is being said here. :(
January 14, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama handled this well.
I'm just tired of all the electrons wasted on the whiny crap from these two . . . The cults of personality surrounding these two is trending towards buffoonery.
I want to read about the issues. When did the DEMs become reduced to 'Ooo look at the shiny penny Republicans?'
January 14, 2008 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
At least one of our candidates is still classy.
January 14, 2008 6:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Steve:
Also Obama said this just yesterday:
"But Sen. Clinton made an unfortunate remark, an ill-advised remark, about King and Lyndon Johnson. I didn't make the statement. I haven't remarked on it. And she, I think, offended some folks who felt that somehow diminished King's role in bringing about the Civil Rights Act. She is free to explain that. But the notion that somehow this is our doing is ludicrous."
Nor is this the first time his campaign pushed this.
That's about as dishonest as one can be. If you're quoting the article, then surely you know he was asked by the reporter to comment on the matter, and he did. That is hardly "pushing" the issue. Indeed, its the opposite: a classy way of not pushing the issue.
The only question is, are the people somehow accusing Obama of dirty politics here Clinton trolls? Or just retarded?
January 14, 2008 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good move by Obama. He's got nothing to gain by campaigning on racial issues.
January 14, 2008 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish he'd said this a little sooner-- but that's partly a testament to how absurdly fast the news cycle has become. This is definitely the right response.
January 14, 2008 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama and his official supporters have been handling this situation like champs. I am very impressed. They are not falling for the bait, contrary to what the post on the first page said. They are keeping it positive and trying to diffuse the situation. As an unoffical supporter, I am sure that the clintons are flipping out because they wanted to try and foment a racial dispute. Too bad, I guess the politics of personal destruction are finally going by the wayside. I can't wait until the primaries are over and she is history.
January 14, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
This comes too late (he should have said it immediately instead of having it fester like this for days), and it's also not true at all--his surrogates are still all over tv trashing her as racist, over and over. He hasn't called off his people at all.
January 14, 2008 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama said that the comment was "ill-advised". Give him a chance to explain why he thinks so. It wasn't about race; it was about how change has come about in this country. I think this is a legitimate issue for them to debate and I believe both of them are perfectly capable of doing that.
January 14, 2008 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Steve:
I'm sure you wouldn't be satisfied until Obama dropped out of the race.
January 14, 2008 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
What oh what would we do without Mr. and Mrs. Bill to lead us!
January 14, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama nailed it. That's exactly the issue.
The Clintons are power brokers and triangulators to the bone. They're never really leading. If the big money comes from supporting trickle-down through NAFTA and deregulation, that's where they'll be.
January 14, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amberglow:
Which Obama surrogates trashed her as racists? I'd like a name and the show. Thanks.
January 14, 2008 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perfect response. On one hand nullify the whole discussion while focusing on the fact that Billary represents a return to the games of washington insiders that have zero connection to real people.
January 14, 2008 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I'm sure you wouldn't be satisfied until Obama dropped out of the race."
That's the only way Obama can prove he's not a negative campaigner. He has to give the election to Hillary to prove he believes her lame-ass explanations, preferably with a long apology for ever questioning her wisdom, experience, and suitability to park her lame ass in the oval office.
January 14, 2008 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
How does this typical "nobler than thou" response square with his campaign's attempt to foster the self-same "racially based" claim about Hillary's remarks?
Hypocrisy, anyone? Don't worry, it's easy to swallow -- you can wash it down with the KoolAid!
January 14, 2008 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
To Michael: The term "retarded" is generally considered offensive these days.
So what if he was responding to a reporter? Almost every single one of the alleged incidents against Clinton was in response to a reporter, including the original MLK remark. But everybody assumed then that it was all scripted in advance.
Has he disavowed what Jesse Jackson Jr. said? Has he fired his South Carolina press secretary for writing up that memo (that wasn't spontaneous)? Has he fired Candice Tolliver for suggesting there was a pattern of race-baiting?
The time to say this was a week ago when this first started. By now the smear of racism is out there, and it's done its work. It's way too late now.
January 14, 2008 7:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why would he fire someone for asking the same questions the rest of the public was asking? None of them called her racist, they questioned what the hell was going on in their campaign.
You HRC supporters can try to get your asses on your shoulder if you like, but these incidents all originated, without any assistance from anyone, in Senator Clinton's campaign. Suggesting otherwise is indirect conflict with the record.
January 14, 2008 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wait a minute..if he doesn't take Hillary's race-bait, what will Hillary do?
January 14, 2008 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh Oh Hillary lovers. There he goes playing the race card again....
I'm sure in your cynical, jaded little way, you'll try to find a way to make these recent comments by Obama look bad, as you long for that little stinking cubicle back in OEOB.
January 14, 2008 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
>OBAMA = hope without work ethic = hype.
We all know Greg Sargent is pro-Hillary, but he shouldn't be allowed to post comments on his own stories!
January 14, 2008 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I think he is still misrepresenting the intent of her words but I applaud him for his sleight of hand in dismissing one negative inference (and one that is potentially damaging to his campaign) while replacing it with another one that plays better to the theme of his campaign.
January 14, 2008 7:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jim:
Why play the victim . . . you've seen it already . . . by questioning her comments, he's accusing her of being racist. See how easy that was. Steve, frankly0 are running the strategy as I write this. Apparently the memo to drop this hasn't filtered through viper nest over at Hillaryis44.com.
January 14, 2008 7:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jor said at the beginning of this thread: "That is an absolutely brilliant response."
I agree! Obama is showing his intellect, his values, his capacity to defuse without giving up his position. While Bill and Hillary scream on about racism and sexism, trying to exploit those issues for their gain, Obama showing that he has the superior character and is the superior leader.
Obama can unite the nation. Hillary will only divide it further.
January 14, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's see The NY Post and Ben Smith publish a rumor they can't find one person to corroborate about a supposedly misogynist Jay Z song played at Obama IA victory party. The DJ's playlist was posted to a diary at Kos and he says there was no rap played at all. That makes sense. We're talking about IA here, where 99.99% of Obama's supporters in corn country are white for God's sake.
In the meantime Hillary has Bob Johnson who has made a cool billion exploiting his own people with really ugly and demeaning gangster rap on BET for years, who has succeeded in keeping any and all competition in his broadcasting niche off cable, who once took out full page ads and made speeches advocating the abolishment of the inheritance tax, ridiculing Obama for his admitted drug dabbling as a kid.
That's classy! Hillary should be proud of herself. But not as proud as I'm gonna be to vote for Obama.
January 14, 2008 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, false dichotomies. Hillary Clinton was right to point out that it takes a President.... Obama was right to point out that it takes a movement.
On balance, "it takes a President too" is a pretty reasonable response to "it takes a movement." Anyone who got their undies in a bunch about Hillary's comments was over-reacting.
On the other hand some of her surrogates are being pretty nasty. I've even gained new respect for Hillary Clinton lately, after considering Obama seriously, because she IS fighting smart (and mean) against an intra-party challenger.
But she is basically not a likable politician, and even with evidence that she can use surrogates to smear her opponent (useful skill!) I'm just not sure she is electable. I don't doubt that she is tough enough. I just wonder if she is nice enough.
Obama... of course he may not be electable for racial reasons. I don't doubt that he is nice enough, but I wonder if he can play the non-threatening guy while really being a tough ball breaking thug (which I do believe any President has to be in the U.S.) Playing Mr. Nice Guy is alright as long as you understand that you will have enemies domestic as well as foreign, and they will be vicious.
And Edwards (who I like) is not electable for class reasons and the fact that he challenges corporate fascism itself. Or seems to.
Basically I'm trying to ignore the whole bunch of them. I vote in Oregon, so nothing I think matters anyway. If this thing still has legs by the time the primary gets here, I'll consider it again. But as far as a I can tell its one corporatist versus another, one imperialist versus another.
Could Obama really be different? God I don't know. I think when you look at the corporate filters he has to pass through in terms of funding and vetting, he is in the end going to be just another tool of the corporate machine.
Go Kucinich! Ha ha. Just kidding. I know not to take my beliefs seriously. Where does Kucinich get off describing the world as it really seems to be? Doesn't he understand that this world has no room for truth tellers?
January 14, 2008 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
*claps*
spot on Barack, spot on
January 14, 2008 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Obama's response is actually pretty funny - brilliant and funny.
Hillary and Bill both put their feet in their own mouths but tried to blame Obama for the uproar that their comments caused, even though he really tried to stay out of it. Remember, it was members of the black community who were calling into radio programs to say they were offended by the remarks, not Obama.
Obama lets them stew for a while, as the black vote starts peeling off of the Clintons, then after a few days, he steps in to take the high road after the damage is done. But, the important thing is that the damage was done BY the Clintons, to themselves.
It’s not Obama’s job to jump to their flippin’ defense, especially after the way they treated him in December, with three of their staff caught spreading those "Obama is a radical Muslim" emails, and Hillary’s NH co-chair, Shaheen, bringing up his drug use. And now, Hillary goes on MTP before the Nevada caucus to totally lie about his record.
I don’t feel sorry for the Clintons. You reap what you sew.
January 14, 2008 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Steve:
Are you capable of processing the English language?
Please point to one word (just one!) in the response you quoted where Obama mentions race. On the contrary, he's making the exact same point that he makes in the statement in this post, that Sen. Clinton unfortunately diminished MLK, Jr.'s work and heralded LBJ's. MLK excited a massive change in the thinking of the American people, whereas LBJ was a consummate politician who offered enough backroom deals and back-scratching to get a (very good) bill passed. Clinton allied herself with LBJ and denigrated MLK's work. You can take your pick about which method you prefer, but you shouldn't be blatantly lying about what has been said or not said by Senator Obama.
January 14, 2008 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know too much, but if there is too much in the air you can find trouble around the corner. Why is it when there are people in a racial situation pressuring you for more in a way that'll frame you with what they think is true, and when the supposed issue colides with the issuse in a continous way the whole story gets the cold shoulder. Why will it when you find the topic alittle too disturbing you are somehow told in a way that the issue is irrilivent.
January 14, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Told you I didn't think playing the race card was working out all that well for him. That always struck me, from the moment Jesse Jackson Jr. popped up on CNN (Katrina! Katrina! Katrina!), as a rash decision made in the heat of rage over losing NH. The Clinton push-back also was very effective.
So, Mr. Obama now wants to kiss and make up, retreat back over the line that he crossed and revert back to conventional warfare with his customary attack lines. Big of him. I have a feeling he's not going to get as much mileage out of that "different kind of politician" spiel as he did before pulling this stunt though.
PS: I read the CNN headline as meaning that Bill Clinton was compiling a list of Obama's attacks on Hillary. It didn't even strike me as ambiguous at the time but I guess you could read it the other way, now that you mention it.
January 14, 2008 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I voted enthusiastically for Clinton in '92. I held my nose and voted again for him in '96 (though Ross Perot nailed it when he said we could look forward to 4 years of scandal.) I don't know if I could vote for Team Clinton again. If it's Hillary vs. McCain, I know which candidate has more integrity and I may just vote for him.
January 14, 2008 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excuse me people, but JRE is the first one to come out and say that Hillary saying change is made in Washington is a fairytale, and not Obama. All the democratic candidates copy JRE.
January 14, 2008 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama handled it well and he always handles these underhanded attacks well.
In the meantime the NY Post and Ben Smith publish a rumor they can't find one person to corroborate about a supposedly misogynist Hay Z song played at an Obama victory party in IA. The DJ's playlist was posted to a diary at Kos and he says there was no rap played at all. That makes sense. We're talking about IA here, where 99.99% of Obama's supporters in corn country are white for God's sake. Why would this be news?
Maybe because Hillary had Bob Johnson who has made a cool billion exploiting his own people with really ugly and demeaning gangster rap on BET for years, who has succeeded in keeping any and all competition in his broadcasting niche off cable, who once took out full page ads and made speeches advocating the abolishment of the inheritance tax, ridiculing Obama for his admitted drug dabbling as a kid yesterday.
That's classy! Hillary should be proud of herself. But not as proud as I'm gonna be to vote for Obama.
January 14, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mike2: Kudos for the most intelligent comment on this all day.
Even though Hillary's surrogates are being pretty nasty, why don't we just put it out there: For a lot of people, nasty is not a disqualifier but a virtue. I disagree with this but I understand the point. At some point, Obama has to play hardball with somebody. He can play hardball ethically and tastefully, but he's still gotta do it and he hasn't quite shown me his hardball bona-fides.
I would make this argument: It takes a movement AND a president and that's the crux of Obama's argument. So on its very merits, Hillary's argument is still complete nonsense. Obama never said a movement was sufficient to the exclusion of good government. He wants movement politics and presidential politics to marry and snog and have pretty babies such as universal healthcare, transparent government, and civil service.
That's the point here.
January 14, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well done, Senator Obama.
Great response. He's reasoned, seasoned, and ready to lead!
This may have just saved Hillary from having to respond to the Sydney Poitier comment...
January 14, 2008 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. Perfect. Well said, Abe.
January 14, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Abe
January 14, 2008 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am surprised, but I like Clinton more now than I like Obama.
And, I'm done with the HuffingtonPost. Bias isn't just ugly on the GOP side.
January 14, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
John Lewis and Joseph Lowery are on the NewsHour right now. Lowery keeps saying how he likes Obama, and thinks that he can being the country together. Lowery also says that the media is primarily responsible for this racial dustup, not the Obama campaign.
Lewis, on the other hand, is parroting Clinton talking points: praising Clinton for her "experience" and all her service to the black community, and attacking Obama for comparing himself to MLK (which he didn't do), and even going so far as to say that Bob Johnson may have been referring to community organizing in his reprehensible comments last weekend. All smear and spin, just like Hillary's performance on MTP yesterday.
The Clintons have obviously decided that it's in their interest to paint Obama as a race hustler in the mold of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. That characterization, like their claim that Obama and Clinton both supported the Iraq war, is blatantly false. Yet, they have learned their Bushian lessons well, and know that, if you repeat a lie often enough, it will seep into enough voter minds, and take on the appearance of truth.
I've never been more disgusted with a Democratic candidate in my life. They are playing a zero sum game, and I hope that, if Hillary still manages to win the nomination, that voters, turned off by her scorched earth tactics and her naturally repellent personality, cause her loss in November.
January 14, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
slcathena wrote on January 14, 2008 6:26 PM:
yes, slc
something was wrong. I restarted my computer and everything was OK but god before that the writing was strung all the way over to the left as wide as my screen.
January 14, 2008 7:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Obama's handlers decided 1) they had gotten all the mileage they could out of his racism charges and 2) began to poll the backlash his stupidities were generating and now he's back peddling for all he's worth.
And now he wants to move on... Right!
ROTFLMAO!
Let's face it, for The Great Black One who's entire base has been built upon the myth of his transcending the old paradigms, ESPECIALLY RACE, the Obamaniacs patently absurd charges (Fairy Tale is now a racial insult!) hardly moved that storyline forward.
And the crowning irony? All those accusations of racism and Uncle Tomism thrown against the HRC campaign actually only served to remind everyone that Bill and Hillary have been long standing supporters of and collaborators with Black leadership. And demonstrated, yet again, Obama's base snarkyness.
Who was it that rightly pointed out: if it comes to that, Bill is "blacker" than Obamarama.
January 14, 2008 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
obama calls a truce. and then clinton surrogate charlie rangel does this:
http://thepage.time.com/ny1-release-on-rangel-interview/
January 14, 2008 7:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
The fairy tale is that Hillary thinks that LBJ would have had the opportunity to write legislation without the CHANGES MLK's civil rights movement brought about.
Change in America starts with the people, the masses it comes from the bottom up. Obama knows that which is why he was committed to community organizing.
Hillary beleives that change occurs from the top down, she believes in the POWER of the Presidency...just like GW Bush beleives that he is the decider.
Barack as a constitutional scholar knows that our democracy is OF the people BY the people FOR the people.
Ergo we have 3 branches of government with two bodies representing the people and only one the executive representing the will of the President.
Our founders understood that the most power should be invested in the people of the nation and their representative not concentrated in the hands of a President who could easily become a despot.
GWBush has taught us that lesson.
If we elect Hillary we will be electing the same mind set that is presently in the Oval Office.
A vote for Hillary is a vote against change and the power she will have in the Oval office.
A vote for Barack is a vote for leadership and change that believes in the US Constitution and the three CO_EQUAL branches of our democracy.
Hillary beleives in the fairy tale that she the washington insider knows best, and that change only comes about through the power of the Presidency.
Hillary is wrong.
The President has no opportunity to bring change without the will of the people fighting for that change and demanding it.
Which is the core message of Obama's campaign.
People who love their country can in the face of impossible odds change their country if they believe in it.
January 14, 2008 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I never realized that Rangel was such a lying scumbag.
January 14, 2008 8:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey savvy,
Do you ever get tired of your own prosaic pontification? Just wondering.
January 14, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Col - Am I capable of processing the English language? Nice intellectual debate tactic there.
You seriously don't see the racial subtext of what Obama was saying? He didn't mention race, but then again, neither did Hillary Clinton or Bill Clinton. That certainly didn't absolve them.
You're saying it's less racially charged than Bill Clinton saying his Iraq record is a fairy tale?
January 14, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interestingly enough, the candidates themselves are not having these arguments, as Mr. Obama clearly stated. It is we the voters who are compelled to debate such ludicrous topics, usually by the hype generated and outrageously spun by the media.
In any campaign, in any group, there are going to be members who go a little further than they are asked to, and a small number of members who go further than that.
The point is that it is up to us, the ones who vote, and who would be counted, to force through a sieve the bile we absorb through both idle gossip and reporters who spin ideas and concepts as thickly as "trap-door" spiders spin webs, and find the information we need to make our election choices.
January 14, 2008 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Gnopple, you wrote
"I would make this argument: It takes a movement AND a president and that's the crux of Obama's argument."
Actually, that was Hillary's argument in a nutshell, you tone deaf shill.
January 14, 2008 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is what we've learned to expect from an honest, classy guy like Senator Obama (no snark).
I agree that he's played it well politically and he realizes that first of all, the Clintons are not racist in any way and wouldn't tolerate a whiff of it in their campaign.
Second, he jabs and keeps the MLK remark "useful" by focusing on another non-racist aspect and keeping the insensitivity thing alive with black voters especially.
Well played, Senator Obama. It's unfortunate that so many of your supporters here have less than half of your class and savvy (see savvy).
January 14, 2008 8:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to say I'm impressed with the apparent ability of Obama to have his campaign get caught red-handed trying to foster the illusion that Hillary's remarks have an insulting racial meaning (see the memo I linked to above) and yet pretend that somehow he has nothing to answer for, and that, instead, he will, pulling himself up to the full height of his nobility, deign to absolve Hillary of her sins.
Imagine, if you can, how Hillary would have been savaged if such a memo had been found in the hands of her campaign. We would absolutely never hear the end of it, from either the press, from TPM, or, most especially from the little sheep who roam about these boards bleating "Obama".
What do we hear from them instead? The most fulsome, cultish praise of a man who has been completely caught out in his hypocrisy.
January 14, 2008 8:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
What will happen if HRC wins the nomination?
Is there any scenario where Obama may refuse to be her VP? (I do not want him to help her win the presidency, given what she, her husband, and their friends are doing to hurt him and our country.)
PS: On PBS and Hardball, HRC surragages (John Lewis and Sheila Jackson-Leigh) were blaming Obama. They both ended: We should get along. They are killing him, and then giving him oxygen. They are using minorities to kill a minority? Obama has MORE ELECTIVE EXPERIENCE than HRC (who has only campaign experience).
January 14, 2008 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have to say I'm impressed with the apparent ability of Obama to have his campaign get caught red-handed trying to foster the illusion that Hillary's remarks have an insulting racial meaning (see the memo I linked to above) and yet pretend that somehow he has nothing to answer for, and that, instead, he will, pulling himself up to the full height of his nobility, deign to absolve Hillary of her sins.
-----------------
let me get this straight, ace. the Clintons and their surrogates make MANY statements over the course of the past few weeks that are very plausibly racially insensitive. the Obama campaign says nothing publically, but circulates an internal memo cataloguing these statements. and the OBAMA campaign has injected race into the Democratic race.
man, that tortured Clinton-logic is painful.
January 14, 2008 8:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
please Obama played the race card with Jesse Jackson JR. saying Hillary can cry about her appearance and not for the victims of Katrina the day after he lost N.H. Obama talks about change and reaching over party lines to reach change. Well the Clinton have already done that, Bill Clinton forgot party line and worked with the former Pres. Bush to raise money for Katrina victims. How much has Obama raised? Obama talks about change, change, change, now I see how he is going to make change. He release his economy plan yesterday, Clinton released her four days ago. Obama changed some number and called it his plan. If he really felt the Clinton remarks were not racist than why did he wait days before saying so, because he wanted it to play out and make it look bad for the Clinton for as long as he could. If he was a real leader than he would have put to rest the issue from day one.
January 14, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rnagel like all these ol school black politicians owe their souls to Hill and Bill but that does not mean the rest of Black America does.
Hill and Bill have a bad record in the black community when it comes to getting things done. They talk a good game but their deeds are sparse.
Bill was the one who cut welfare in the 90s and drove thousands of poor off the welfare rolls including black children and families.
Bill was the one who upheld mandatory sentencing for crack even thought the US Judicial Commission recommended abolishing those mandatory sentences TWELVE years ago. Bill kept them any way and as blacks are disproportionately convicted on crack so too have they been disproportionately incarcerated for exceptionally long times on minor drug offenses.
Bill was the one who along with Hill threw Lani Guanier up under the bus.
I think it is time that African Americans ask just what is the Clinton record on issues impacting them. What are their deeds?
Like Hillary says words are nice but just what did Bill and Hill do for black America?
January 14, 2008 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Charlie Rangel:
(h/t to del, above)
In other news, Hillary Clinton looks to be closing on Obama in South Carolina. In a new Rasmussen poll out today Clinton appears to have whittled the 12-point lead Obama enjoyed in two previous post-Iowa Rasmussen polls of down to 5 points, and now trails by just 38-33%, with John Edwards is at 17%. Margin off error for the poll would be +/- 4.4%.
January 14, 2008 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Frankly0,
You can't possibly believe your own BS, can you? Try this:
Give me one good positive reason to vote for Shillary.
January 14, 2008 8:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah! I'm so glad that's fixed (thanks savvy).
As for the comments, this is exactly the correct response from Senator Obama, precisely the tone I want from my president.
January 14, 2008 8:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
blackstar:
Is it plausable that as the South Carolina primary looms closer, that Hillary Clinton would begin to release her "racists making plausably racist comments" in order to alienate the most dependable bloc of Democratic voters there is, and who have always loved and supported the Clintons?
Gee, it's really something that all of a sudden, after all these many, many years without a whiff of "racial insensitivity" ever being connected with Bill and Hillary Clinton as persons and as politicians, and who are, coincidentally, now in a pitched campaign battle with a black candidate, all of a sudden these insensitivies begin to be "identified as such" by someone (the press, I guess - BOO!),and begin to bubble to the surface of the race card sewer. Hmmmm. Interesting, no?
January 14, 2008 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Victoria@8:25 PM
you said:
He release his economy plan yesterday, Clinton released her four days ago.
Your girl Hillary is suppose to be the guru on healthcare, right?
Go check how long it took her to release that stupid MANDATORY health plan she came up with AFTER Edwards AND Obama put their plans out.
It was MONTHS.
She had to copy theirs.
Hillary has never been a leader.
She consistently follows the polls and waits to see what her rivals will do because she has such poor political judgment.
That experience she claims is not for governing or policy making...she is too polarizing to ever be able to that effectively.
What Hillary is good at is campaigning. She is a street fighter, her and Bill love the muck and mire and bickering and attacking brand of politics of personal destruction they are goood at it. The GOP learned it from them. Hillary is an exceptional fighter in the trenches.
The problem is we want a leader for President not a brawler.
But you have got to give it to her when it comes to a fight, Hill, is the girl. She weathered all of Bill's campaign and honed her talons and grew fangs to rip out her rivals throat.
We need a President who knows how to lead. A President who understands diplomacy does not mean wielding America's military might.
America needs a leader with good judgment an experienced leader not brawler.
January 14, 2008 8:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it plausable that as the South Carolina primary looms closer, that Hillary Clinton would begin to release her "racists making plausably racist comments" in order to alienate the most dependable bloc of Democratic voters there is, and who have always loved and supported the Clintons?
-----------------
no, but it is plausible that she releases her surrogates to make borderline racially insensitive comments in an attempt to provoke Obama into using a racial defense (e.g. "she's picking on me because i'm a black man, see"). she could then paint him as just another black politician in the mold of Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, which black voters, and everyone else, recognize cannot win a general election.
thankfully, Obama didn't fall for it one iota. the Clinton campaign has to be frustrated that he's proving to be every bit as adept a campaigner as he is a speaker.
i don't believe the Clintons are racist (and truth be told, many of their quoted supporters probably aren't either). but they will readily use race if they think it will help get Hillary elected, just as they will exploit any other issue or demographic.
January 14, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi colonpowwow, no she wouldn't be releasing the comments for south carolina. That would be stupid and the clintons sure are not stupid, but, hmmmm, let me see what is the make-up of the electorate in new hampshire? Oh, its not the same as south carolina is it and, hmmmm, when were the bulk of the statements before new hampshire, and hmmm, what's the make-up of nevada? Nahh, they wouldn't be trying to bait the obama campaign to get in a racial battle. Nahh, never the clintons? They are as pure as the driven snow.
Obviously, the race baiting and trying to play on false racial stereotypes was just a slip up by all those clinton supporters and clinton herself. It was just a big mistake, slip of the tongue, and people taking things out of context. Yeah, its the obama campaign's fault that people are interpreting what the clintons and their supporters have said, buttttt wait the obama campaign hasn't said squat. Oh, that's ok the clintons said that they are infusing race into the campaign so it must be true. We all know how trustworthy the clintons are. The paragon of truth and virtue, right?
January 14, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Guys, there is a statement from Sen. Clinton: how about you give that relevance, too?
“Over this past week, there has been a lot of discussion and back and forth - much of which I know does not reflect what is in our hearts.
“And at this moment, I believe we must seek common ground.
“Our party and our nation is bigger than this. Our party has been on the front line of every civil rights movement, women's rights movement, workers' rights movement, and other movements for justice in America.
“We differ on a lot of things. And it is critical to have the right kind of discussion on where we stand. But when it comes to civil rights and our commitment to diversity, when it comes to our heroes - President John F. Kennedy and Dr. King – Senator Obama and I are on the same side.
“And in that spirit, let's come together, because I want more than anything else to ensure that our family stays together on the front lines of the struggle to expand rights for all Americans.”
January 14, 2008 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, Grey - that's a nice statement. Too bad Clinton didn't make it first, when she had the chance, on Meet the Press. Or anywhere. It's always easy to agree to calm tensions after someone else has made the bolder choice to stop the fight altogether.
January 14, 2008 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I bet that, ah, voluminous statement by Clinton is what really defeated Obama (his remarks today were clearly a concession that his tactic of using magic to make the rival campaign put out insensitive and/or incompetent statements did not work) and cleverly they also pushed it only after so his terrible humiliation would be all the more glaring!
January 14, 2008 9:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's time to take the debates away from the privately-owned media. When they start deciding who the candidates are for us. Let Kucinich speak, NBC.
January 14, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm an Obama supporter, but I really don't like the way he played this one. What Hillary originally said was correct, and it's no knock on Martin Luther King to say that it took LBJ's political skills to get the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed. When Rep. Howard Smith of Virginia, the segregationist chairman of the House rules committee indicated that he would keep the bill bottled up indefinitely, Johnson--a former Senate majority leader--cajolled and bullied enough Congress members into supporting a discharge petition. Smith had to back down, and the bill went to the Senate, which passed it by a huge margin.
January 14, 2008 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Edwards supporter here, and no love for Hillary, but to pretend that Obama did not try to cast the LBJ and fairy tale statements as "racially insensitive", when they were not, is self-delusion.
Obama is my number two, but I did not like that move at all. If the "Clinton surrogates" are doing it on the other end (and sorry Andrew Cuomo is an idiot, the BET guy is much more believable), then that is obviously wrong. I just don't think its been proven.
On the up side, EXPECT racist attacks from the GOP if Obama gets the Dem nod. This controversy shows he can play the game if need be (of course the GOPer don't really try to get the black vote anyway so the dynamics are much different -- Hillary's supposed racial attacks make no sense since she relies on the black vote to help her in the primaries).
January 14, 2008 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
No one's questioning the facts, Patrick from Takoma Park. Look closer. They're questioning her tone. And it was way off. She had to know she was aligning herself with LBJ in the MLK/LBJ paradigm, as she was in the process of discussing Obama's (supposed) comparison of himself to MLK (which never happened). That's what the issue is.
January 14, 2008 9:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is with sadness to announce to you that the democrats will likely lose the White House in 08, unless we don't nominate Hillary. McCain will beat her not only with the help of republicans but also of independents and numerous democrats who are fed up with the status quo (or the Clintons). Are we really such an irrational party to see what's at stake? It is not too late, vote not Hillary, Edwards or Obama will beat McCain. Just think of the pain we had in 00, 04, and now 08? It is not too late to stop the Clinton machine from destroying the democratic party. Just think about it!
January 14, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am watching Fox (Dick Morris). He said that Clinton's highest AA appointment was Sec. of Labor. May be I forgot. Is this true?
Morris went to dissect Clinton AA record, and mentioned that it was not great. Is this a correct assessment? If yes, when are people like John Lewis support HRC. Why is Clinton called the First Black President?
(Morris give higher points to Bush for Powell and Rice - but they went for war. So, may be that was not a good stat.)
January 14, 2008 9:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Palooza,
I think everyone is fully expecting the GOP to go race-baiting (and voter suppressing and so on.)
January 14, 2008 9:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
MAJOR news in Senate races: A judge has ruled that the Mississippi Senate special election has to be held by March 19th -- not in November as the governor wanted.
January 14, 2008 9:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, your complete lack any kind of logic is painful. Yesterday, you went on and on about how the Clintons' recent comments were racist or race-baiting, and now that Obama comes out and bursts that bubble (no one with an ounce of intelligence could have interpreted the "fairytale" and LBJ/MLK comments as racist, unless they had an ulterior motive for the pushing the meme), you are still making the same claims? The Clintons were always in the clear about this and I am glad that Obama has just put that to rest. He needed this as much as you need a root canal. He would not have a chance in a racially polarized contest because there are just too many whites relative to blacks in America.
Now for the campaign "surrogates" that you keep ranting about. There have been a few over-zealous folks out there in both camps, who have said unsavory things, but unless you have evidence that the folks you rant about had been authorized to speak for Clinton, you cannot in all honesty try to pin those statements on her, just as it would be dishonest if I tried to pin Jesse Jeackon Jr's statements on Obama (although in his case, he is so close to the campaign that he probably should have been dismissed, just like Hillary had dismissed Shaheen and another aid in IA, who got too over-zealous).
This is the headline:
Obama: Hillary's Martin Luther King Remark Not "Racial" Comment.
Read it, understanding it, and then give it a rest. You've already blown too much hot air over something that was patently a case of making a Himalaya out of a molehill.
January 14, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
If I made one-dollar everytime people said something like, then I be a blog-millionaire already.
If Obama cannot handle Clintons, then wait till the GOP goes after him.
This is the biggest bull-shit I have heard. No one in the entire vast right wing GOP is any match for Clintons. No one. Not now. Not tomorrow. Not in the past.
In fact, if Obama can beat Clintons, then he will easily take on GOP.
Why not say that? Yes, why, indeed, not?
January 14, 2008 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Way too little way too late.
He has said nothing abut Jackson's lying racist comments. He hasn't done anything about the staffers that are pushing this stuff. He himself already commented on Hillary's remarks negatively.
Why hasn't he fired Jackson?
And why doesn't the New York Times write even one article on the Jackson ugliness, after its many articles (another one today) inflating this racism controversy?
January 14, 2008 10:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, we go from the bullshit scenario concocted by the corporate media pre-New Hampshire to the breathless horror that they were all wrong on now to the idiotic and completely manufactured "racial remarks" controversey. Does anyone not understand that this is not real and doesn't mean anything? Our elite corporate media are incapable of covering the Democratic race for President. So, instead, they focus on trying to create a controversey between Clinton and Obama supporters about whether or not there are subtle racial remarks being propounded by the Clinton camp and one or two suggestions that perhaps the Obama people are being a bit sexist (remember the "you're likeable enough" comment?
So they have succeeded here for several days in distracting voters from the issues. The primary issue for voters is to make a decision between three candidates. Two are leading but neither with a decisive advantage. Are there any substantive differences between the three that voters might find illuminating or helpful in making their choice? We'll never know if the media continues to call the tune because they don't WANT Americans making an informed choice. Sad to say, even the blogosphere has become entangled in this foolish sideshow.
The corporate media are the most irrespnosible pack of two-bit gossips ever to have stained the pages of history. Everyone, no matter who you support, should refuse to play the stupid game the media wants you to play.
Instead, demand to know when the troops are coming home from each of them if elected, and when will national health care---not just universal coverage of a minimal nature be implemented, and what will they do to alleviate the suffering of those in poverty and improve the economy so the middle class doesn't join the ranks of the impoversihed? That's the shit that counts folks. All this other crap is just emotional bait to distract us all and get us fighting eachother. Let's refuse to do that and instead push the whole conversation to the left where it belongs.
January 14, 2008 10:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
foxx wrote on January 14, 2008 10:38 PM:
I am with ya but that was the game all along Bush dose this well also, but the damage is done to the party and I think a good lesson learned. Senator Clinton needs to move on and get back to her message for us. I did not like how she was treated today at that MLK meeting nor did many folsk out here in voter land.
January 14, 2008 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do not think that this is quite a fair comparison. Jesse Jackson Jr's statements were indeed boneheaded, but he was just one person. The Clinton campaign, by contrast, had any number of remarks running towards this theme. As Josh Marshall admirably summarized the matter on the main page
Now I agree that the MLK/LBJ comparison was not a racist claim so much as just a stupid analogy and that the "fairy tale" remark was in no wise racist, but Shaheen's drug dealer remark, Cuomo's "shuck and jive," Johnson's "something in the neighborhood" and the anonymous adviser's "hip black friend" remarks all definitely do carry racial intimations. The attempt to refocus this on the MLK remarks is deft for both campaigns because it 1) allows the Clintons to pretend that they were not race baiting by suggesting that all of the genuinely racist remarks were misunderstood in the same way that the MLK remark was (using one counterfeit coin to discredit the far-more-common legitimate currency) and 2) it allows Obama's campaign to defuse the issue gracefully before it does long term damage to the democratic coalition. That said, I belive that Obama is doing the Clintons at least as much of a favor as he is doing himself here.
Good for him, that.
January 14, 2008 10:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was very happy to come upon this site several months ago. I am not an American citizen; therefore I don't vote in this election. I do have my preferences among the candidates, but my absolute wish is to make the Republicans history.
I am puzzled by this: Just yesterday TPM ran a post criticizing how the New York Times did not fully quote Hillary's comments so readers could form an opinion for themselves.
Today I see that in the main TPM page, left column, TPM has posted a video with Hillary herself speaking.
Here is a mention of Obama's recent (and classy, may I?) response of today. But it hasn't been posted in the same main, left column, but rather on the busier (less obvious) right side...
...And no full quote (or video) of what Obama said. After all the commotion of the weekend, Obama's response today seems pretty important, at least as the follow up to the story.
I wonder: Why was it left out?
January 14, 2008 11:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great post by Dick Polman, one of my favorite political writers from the Philly Inquirer
(http://www.dickpolman.blogspot.com/)
MONDAY, JANUARY 14, 2008
Hillary's "Florida Republican tactics"
One week from today, the Nevada Democratic caucuses will be receding in the rear-view mirror, and the story I'm about to describe may well be relegated to a footnote. But let us live for today. What we have here is a classic demonstration of the disconnect between what a politician says and what a politican does.
At the same time that Hillary Clinton is extolling herself (on Meet the Press yesterday) as a tireless champion of working women and people of color - "I've worked all my life on behalf of civil rights and women's rights and human rights" - her allies and surrogates in Nevada have filed a lawsuit that is designed to undercut the voting rights of working women and people of color.
This is how the game is played when the stakes are high: The Clinton surrogates - who have no direct links to the Hillary campaign, and are thus supposedly acting on their own - don't like the fact that the Nevada Democratic party is making it easy for unionized casino workers to participate in the Saturday caucuses. So they've sued to stop the process.
The state Democratic party has been busy setting up meeting sites at nine big casinos, so that members of the powerful Culinary Workers Union - as well as any non-union workers within a two-mile radius of the sites - can choose a candidate during their work break. That seems like a reasonable idea - so reasonable, in fact, that the Democratic National Committee overwhelmingly approved the plan last spring; and so reasonable that nary a whisper of dissent was voiced by any of the Democratic presidential candidates.
Indeed, when Hillary left Iowa last week, she lamented the fact that so many working people were unable to participate in those caucuses, due to their work schedules. As she told ABC News, "You have a limited period of time on one day to have your voices heard. That is troubling to me. You know, in a situation of a caucus, people who work during that time - they're disenfranchised."
But all of a sudden, Hillary's surrogates are now claiming that the Nevada Democratic plan violates the U.S. Constitution, and that therefore these "at large" caucus sites - which are actually intended to enfranchise more working people - should be eliminated.
I'm just wondering: Could this lawsuit, filed late Friday, have anything to do with the fact that the 60,000-member Culinary Workers Union gave its much-coveted endorsement, 48 hours earlier, to Barack Obama?
Kirsten Searer, the state party's deputy executive director, is quoted as saying that, ever since the caucus rules were OKed by the national Democrats last May, "the campaigns have been fully informed throughout the process." There hadn't been a shred of protest from the Hillary camp about the plans for casino caucus sites; nor had there been any protest from the pro-Hillary folks who have now filed the lawsuit. In fact, some of those pro-Hillary folks are members of the state party, and they participated in the March 31, 2007 meeting that OKed the plan...unanimously.
Officially, Hillary's campaign says it knows nothing about the laswuit and, as the candidate herself said this weekend, "I have no opinion on the lawsuit." So we are supposed to believe that she and her campaign have no connection whatsoever to the plaintiffs, who happen to include the Nevada State Education Association teacher's union, whose deputy executive director is a founding member of Hillary's Nevada Women's Leadership Council. And it's perhaps sheer coincidence that the law firm pushing the suit is Hillary-friendly; several senior partners have given her money, and one prominent lawyer in the firm, ex-congressman James Bilbray, has endorsed her and has been campaigning for her. (Here's Hillary, yesterday: "I don't think it's supporters of mine. There seems to be some misunderstanding about that.")
Hillary has complained for years that the 2000 post-election Florida crisis was an insult to democracy, an attempt by Republicans to disenfranchise minorities by suppressing their votes. It's hard to see how she is well served today by exposing herself to that same charge in Nevada - particularly when it is being leveled by a pro-Democratic union official whose members include large numbers of working-class Hispanics ("This is an attempt to wholesale disenfranchise people who are largely women, largely people of color, and people who do the kind of work that makes this town go").
On the one hand, we have Hillary repeatedly declaring that she has fought for minorities all her life; on the other hand, we have her surrogates suing to shut down caucus rules that have been designed to help minorities (again, state party official Searer: "The at-large precincts were included to increase participation in the highest concentration of shift workers - many of whom are minorities"). On the one hand, we have Hillary inveighing for years about Republican suppression tactics; on the other hand, we have D. Taylor, the Culinary union official, accusing Hillary's surrogates of "Florida Republican tactics."
Barack Obama should be pleased, because Hillary has handed him a hot one. She comes off looking like a typical pol who says one thing but does another, somebody who lawyers up to change the rules, even at the risk of alienating the minorities and working stiffs whom she claims to best represent.
January 14, 2008 11:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Apparently hindsight is not 20/20...
"I do think it was indicative of the perspective that she brings, which is that what happens in Washington is more important than what happens outside of Washington," he said.
I admire those who take to streets-I've done it myself and I admire those who can navigate the tricky waters of Washington. Why the hell does this have to be a one-or-the-other proposition? They are not mutually exclusive and Obama ought to know this because at least during the time period in question, the "intracacies of the legislative process" needed to be mastered in order to get legal results.
Maybe he'll be a better President than Senator...
January 14, 2008 11:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seems the Australians think we're following their example in our arguments over experience vs. change.
http://acropolisreview.com/2008/01/kevin-rudd-barack-obama-australian.html
January 15, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Could there be a BimboEruption waiting in the wings?
January 15, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yesterday, you went on and on about how the Clintons' recent comments were racist or race-baiting, and now that Obama comes out and bursts that bubble (no one with an ounce of intelligence could have interpreted the "fairytale" and LBJ/MLK comments as racist, unless they had an ulterior motive for the pushing the meme), you are still making the same claims?
--------------
not JUST the recent comments, but yes. both Clinton's remarks are easily construed as racially insensitive (i believe i also noted that they could not enact this strategy explicitly, any comments that they did make would have to be vague but heavily laced with possibility), and they are 2 of many more similar statements made by Clinton surrogates in the past few weeks. Obama has chosen to let the possibilities slide to regain a new, healthier perspective on the race; i have the luxury of not running for president and thus am able to speculate more freely. he's made the right move for his campaign once again, but his dismissal of the recent comments doesn't in any real way undermine the point i expressed last night [namely, that the Clinton campaign was pushing its surrogates to make borderline racially insensitive statements in an attempt to provoke Obama into taking a race-centered defense that he thankfully did not do].
so feel free to pontificate however you like, but the pattern of statements is there for anyone to see (or willfully disregard, in your case).
January 15, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
You have been drinking too much of the kool-aid like rest of them and are starting to believe the empty rhetoric about a "gentler and kinder politics", as well as politics of "unity". Obama's camp is capable of playing hardball just like the rest of them, and it is, but I still maintain that we should lay off the tendency to point the finger at the candidates whenever rogue, over-zealous elements make ugly pronouncements or carry out embarrassing activities which the campaigns did not sanction. Case in point, from Salon:
A precinct captain for Barack Obama in Nevada tells us that he may have to resign from the campaign after distributing a flier that's drawing complaints from Hillary Clinton supporters on the Web.
Obama Clean, Clinton Dirty? In your dream...
January 15, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama says not so. End of story. As for 'surrogates", please check out my preceding post. Do you really wish to continue pushing this meme?... my sense it that you need to get another issue to rant about. This one is dead, and not a day too soon...
January 15, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama says not so. End of story. As for 'surrogates", please check out my preceding post. Do you really wish to continue pushing this meme?... my sense it that you need to get another issue to rant about. This one is dead, and not a day too soon...
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you may mindlessly follow every opinion of your candidate, but i do not do the same with mine. i know why Obama is trying to move past this issue, and i applaud that intention. but that doesn't mean its not still an issue worth looking in to.
and as for having another issue to rant about, how about the voting situation in Nevada? why don't you try some transparently absurd justifications in that thread? i guarantee we'll be hearing a lot more about that issue in the coming days, especially when more of the background on the claimants comes out. at least with Clinton in the race there's no shortage of objectionable tactics to decry.
January 15, 2008 12:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
SUSA Poll Results for CA:
January 15, 2008 12:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Blackstar
Please go on ranting then. It is mindless but, hey, it is your lack of mind!
January 15, 2008 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Blackstar sez:
Ladies and gents: That there is the mind of a would-be rogue and over-zealous "surrogate" agent. Obama, having decided that his strategy was not working, decided to negotiate a truce, but this disappoints a 'blackstar' who had wanted to keep on. Now, you can imagine someone that over-zealous deciding to bypass the campaign's wishes and begin to "free-lace", with disastrous results for the campaign that he'h tried to "help."
January 15, 2008 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
That there is the mind of a would-be rogue and over-zealous "surrogate" agent. Obama, having decided that his strategy was not working, decided to negotiate a truce, but this disappoints a 'blackstar' who had wanted to keep on. Now, you can imagine someone that over-zealous deciding to bypass the campaign's wishes and begin to "free-lace", with disastrous results for the campaign that he'h tried to "help."
------------
there's no cogent analogy to be had here, sorry. i'll give you a C for effort.
January 15, 2008 1:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
why should we trust the judgment of a woman who didnt know her husband was cheating on her multiple times. And why should anyone trust Bill Clinton, a man who has lied under oath.
January 15, 2008 1:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
WARNING: Bimbo Eruption up ahead!
January 15, 2008 1:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
It would be easy for a candidate to state, "We know campaigns are huge, not always perfectly events, and overeager supporters will make regrettable mistakes. Many will parse candidates statements looking for any way to take offense. We think all the candidates have good intentions. We intend to stay focused on real issues, like..."
No mention of who, what, when or where. No need to bring up race or gender to say we're not going to talk about race or gender.
Speaking of issues, I'm getting tired of anti-Hillary people writing off her efforts for children, women and anti-poverty. She led - since the 60's. Maybe you find more important issues - that's your choice, but if I were to dismiss Obama's work in organizing and advocating civil rights, it would be just as insulting and misleading.
January 15, 2008 3:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
The purpose of Obama's race-bating was to shore-up African-American support in South Carolina, pure and simple. Now that that's done, he pretends to take the high road.
Obama staffers infest these comment boards trying to astroturf these non issues.
January 15, 2008 4:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Attention Obamaiacs: You lost this one! Big Time!
As Obama furiously back peddles on his stupidities you try to tell the world it actually is a Great Victory! More Orwellian NewSpeak in lieu of substance. And once again you find yourself reduced to spouting GOP talking points. Ha Ha Ha!
This is just as much a Fairy Tale (oops I did it again!) as the original antiClinton slurs.
All of Obama's petty and desperate attempts to pry black votes away from Clinton paint him as just that: petty and desperate. And willing to support racist homophobic misogynists if he thinks it will get him a few more ballots.
He was, inexplicably, given a pass on Donny Mac Cracker and Oprah's War Cheerleading; do you think that he will get one on Farrakhan too?
Oh those size thirteen feet of clay are showing cracks!
January 15, 2008 6:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
you people who think Hillary can win in the general are really really deluding yourselves
January 15, 2008 7:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
MLK choose to fight and die for freedom. LBJ did not. He was a some what accidental President, who would never have been elected to the office if JFK had not been murdered. LBJ knew that he had to do something dramatic to have a chance to win a term of his own. Look what he did with his own term. Created the mess in Vietnam. This is the guy that Hillary is elevating to the rank of top civil rights pioneer! The two million or more Vietnamese who died in Johnson's vanity war prove that LBJ did not give a rat's arse about human rights.
Hillary voted for Bush's Iraq invasion, and recently voted for the Kyl/Lieberman Iran war ploy. No wonder she touts LBJ over the Anti-War MLK
January 15, 2008 9:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
That statement is ignorant beyond breathless, and also mind-boggling in the suggestion that LBJ's role in enacting landmark civil rights legislations that saved America is meaningless because no assassin bullet had stricken him down. Since you won't educate yourself in this "information age", I will try help: Please read this absolutely enlightening piece in today's WaPo by Joseph Califano, who was there at the time with LBJ and MLK, and to ought. Ignorance is bliss but also a potent irritant when dished out at high dose.
January 15, 2008 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
I recommend that WaPo piece by Joe Califano to anyone who still thinks that Hillary's factually accurate comment was racist.
Posted in transit from and hand-held....
January 15, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary did not make a racist comment. This has all been manufactured. She is not respected by the pundits, people tend to believe what they are told, the black community gets miffed about the least little thing which affords people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to inject themselves into the situation for their own grandizement.
If this continues, I doubt that I will even bother to vote. If an Obama WH is representative of these talking heads then we will be living the Bush years all over again with respect to dissent. Instead of being labeled as non patriots will we then all be labeled as racists for critiquing or questioning St. Barack?
January 15, 2008 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am appalled that someone would repeatedly, over and over, incessantly call me a racist. Obama can't open his mouth without calling me a racist. Hillary's a racist. Bill's a racist. Bob Johnson's a racist. Everyone. It's all he says. He's done it like 30 or 40 times. Racist racist racist.
This is how it is for white people. You try and try and try to be polically correct, and yet these people are just so oversensitive that inevitably you end up being smeared as a racist. You just can't win as a white person. You're lucky if you don't get sued or fired because of this kind of thing. And black people are just automatically assumed to be innocent. But like Robert Johnson said between stints trying to abolish the death tax, sometimes they are actually "doing something in the neighborhood," if you know what I mean. "Community organizing" I mean. And god help us white people if we say boo about it. They are all saints. You just can't win. Oh well. You with me sister?!
January 15, 2008 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
>>>>Instead of being labeled as non patriots will we then all be labeled as racists for critiquing or questioning St. Barack?
EXACTLY!!! This is what I am talking about. Do you want to live in an America that is ruled by black people prying into your private comments to find out if you are racist? What is Obama, the thought police? All I want to do is have everyone stop talking about race, and drugs, and imaginary black friends, and racism, and race, and cocaine, and imaginary black friends, and race, and racism, and just come together and vote for someone who is Ready for the Experience to Change from Day One. That's ME! Clinton Bush VI.
January 15, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama has really blown it in his futile attempt to turn Fairy Tale into a racial slur.
The charge was so stupid and such a transparent ploy that he will not be able to play his race cards again. Another attempt on his part will be met by derision and calls of crying wolf no matter how egregious the offense
Now think about that.
Assuming that he gains the nomination, he will have shot his wad over a few extra votes from the Blacks of South Carolina, maybe enough to win there. But he will be unable to fully respond to the real racist Repub attacks we know will come.
It would be bad enough if he won this misbegotten battle on his way to losing the war. I think though that this will be viewed as the tactic that destroyed his strategy.
Doubly sad as it was basically a creature of his wife's febrile imaginings.
January 15, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
clinton's own people (one an advisor, another a state senate official) didn't like her mlk comments.
http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/?s=jack
January 15, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
where is the discussion over how hillary flip-flops on ending reagan era mandatory minimums, opposes retroactivity for mandatory minimums, her stance on disparities in drug sentencing and other policy positions that negatively impact blacks the most.
http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/2008/01/05/prison-pied-pipers-clintons-saxophones-racial-disparities-drug-sentencing/#more-2021
http://jackandjillpolitics.blogspot.com/2008/01/hillary-hits-obama-for-opposing-harsher.html
January 15, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink