When will you guys get it?

THE VOTERS CONTROL THE PROCESS AS THEY HAVE SHOWN TIME AND TIME AGAIN. EVEN WITH THE DEFECTS OF THE MAIN STREAM MEDIA THEY HAVE HAD ENOUGH EXPOSURE TO THE CANDIDATES IN ACTION TO MAKE REAL JUDGMENTS OF THE PEOPLE INVOLVED.

That said, it would be wonderful if much more emphasis was placed on looking at the candidates' actual records and assessing their plans and deciphering their characters.

Jane:

We should also look at how the candidates respond under duress. Senator Clinton resulted to distorting Senator Obama's record and statements over the last five days. Which showed that she lacks integrity.

We will see how Obama handles the next week or so.

The Clinton's have seriously damaged their relations with the African American constituency by their tactics against Barack Obama. The use of surrogates to imply Obama was a drug dealer, a Muslim Manchurian Candidate terrorist, the innuendos about his past as an organizer in South Chicago. And the use of 9/11 to scare people. They are no better than Rove. I use "they" because clearly Hillary has chosen not to stand on her own but to be an extension of her husband's dynasty. She may have salvaged New Hampshire, but the Clinton integrity and dynastic reputation has now been revealed for what it is. She will lose Nevada and South Carolina decisively. And African Americans will see how the race card is being used against Obama. They will vote in large majorities for Obama in SC and elsewhere. The call-ins at C-Span this morning reveal the backlash.

WWNPHD:

I was just about to say the same thing. We won't know until later this morning if the Culinary Union is going to go against the grain.

If they endorse Clinton, I think it will make the CU look like fair-weather endorsers. They should have endorsed on the issues and then electability. Seems to me they put too much emphasis on the latter.

I agree with keith and bridoc. Will somebody, anybody challenge clinton in her faux experience? Please. I am sick of hearing and seeing the clintons and the distortions about everything and then the media just repeats it ad nauseum. Like this experience garbage. She's the "experienced" candidate. If they say it once, they say it a thousand times and its just bs. Ugh!!!!!

To be honest with you, all these endorsements from unions and politicians really don't mean much. endorsements from establishments only dilute Obama's claim to be an insurgent candidate. I was hoping that Kerry and Kennedy would endorse Hillary at her darkest hours in NH. But I thought it might backfire. People are resentful of being told who to vote and an endorsement from politicians like Kerry or Kennedy could have made Hillary look beholden to old interest.

Kennedy endorsement would be a nice thing if he told Mr. Obama: I know President Kennedy. He's my brother. He talked well but he also valued experience. He had 14 years of experience as a House and Senate member. Before that he was a naval fighter. If he were to be running against you, you would have said he were a part of problem not the solution!!!

Michael A, simply go look her up in Wikipedia going back to 1964. Four national presidential campaigns before Bill made governor. College activism and student bodies. Work for the Watergate Committee and Mondale's Labor Board. Child and Women's advocacy, anti-poverty work, legal assistance for child abuse and Children's Defense Fund, being on boards and starting her own child/family foundations. Work at Yale Child Study Center, on the board of Yale's Social and Legal Review, published in Harvard Educational Review, Rural Health Advisory Committee, 2 1/2 years teaching law. This brings us up to her time as First Lady of Arkansas and the US, and her 7 years in the Senate.

Hi desider, by the way congratulations. Great, those are all excellent accomplishments and virtually the same types of accomplishmets as obama's accomplishments as a civil rights activist and community organizer in Chicago after he was editor of the Harvard Law Review. Its really no different, which is the point. I'm not saying that she doesn't have "experience." I am saying that its not so overwhelming over obama that it should make a difference.

Others are reporting the same thing:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/

After suffering a setback in New Hampshire on Tuesday, Senate Barack Obama will get some good news at 11 a.m. today, eastern time, when Unite Here, the union representing 460,000 apparel, laundry, hotel and restaurant workers, announces that it is endorsing him, a union official said.
The union will make the announcement simultaneously at its New York headquarters and in Las Vegas, where its local, Culinary Local 226, representing more than 60,000 casino, hotel and restaurant workers, is by far the largest and most politically potent union in Nevada.

Well, that seals Nevada for Obama. Las Vegas is basically the whole shebang and that is union country.

Okay, as an ongoing service to Clinton-experience-bashers who can now procede with denigrating her impressive Senate record (and yeah, I hate her Iraq War and Patriot Act votes too, so spare me!) - here is a partial list of legislation she co-authored (her name is on the legislation) in the Senate. This list does not include the hundreds of bills, amendments, etc. that she has co-sponsored, supported, or voted on.

After being elected Senator in a completely Republican controlled environment filled with her political enemies, her first speech on the Senate floor listed 5 healthcare proposals in detail that she could support.

Even Trent Lott across the aisle said in Hillary’s first year in the Senate, “Though I disagree with her on nearly everything politically, you have to be impressed by what a hard worker she is.”

Senator Clinton sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee and three subcommittees.

She sits on the Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works and three subcommittees including chairing the Subcommittee on Superfund and Environmental Health.

BTW - the Senate subcommittee that Hillary chairs meets regularly and passes legislation (last met in October 2007). The subcommittee that Senator Obama chairs hasn't met ONCE since he's become Senator.

Clinton also sits on the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions and two subcommittees, and sits on the Senate Special Committee on Aging.

Here is just some of the legislation she has co-sponsored that is now law. This list doesn't include the hundreds of bills that she has signed onto or that she has strongly advocated - again this is bipartisan legislation passed in spite of an overall hostile Republican environment:

Clinton-Stevens Amendment for Enhanced 911 Funding Included in 9/11 Commission Recommendations Bill

Dodd-Clinton Amendment to Expand Family and Medical Leave Benefits to Wounded Soldiers and Their Families

Clinton-Collins Measure to Improve Mental Health Services for Seniors Included in Older Americans Act

Clinton-Enzi Military Personnel Financial Services Protection Act

Clinton-Obama National Medical Error Disclosure and Compensation Act

Frist-Clinton Wired for Health Care Quality Act

Graham-Clinton TRICARE Benefits Expansion

Clinton-Collins Measure to Protect Men and Women in Uniform From Predatory Lending and Insurance Practices

Clinton-Schumer Amendment to Restore 9/11 Funding

Clinton-Hagel Act – Recognition for wounded veterans.

Schumer-Clinton Bill to Protect 10,000 Acres of Puerto Rico's Caribbean National Forest

Clinton-Talent Military Health Readiness Legislation

Clinton-Nickles Unemployment Extension Agreement

Schumer-Clinton First Responders Amendment

Clinton-Smith Magnet Hospital Provisions Amendment to Nurse Reinvestment Act

Clinton-Dodd-Slaughter Protecting America's Children Against Terrorism Act

In the first part of 2007:

Senator Clinton introduced the Home Ownership Protection and Foreclosure Prevention Bill

Passed the Dodd-Clinton Amendment that expanded family and medical leave benefits to wounded soldiers and their families.

Authored provisions to the College Cost Reduction Act (now Law) that capped student loan monthly payments pegged to income and expanded Pell grants.

Co-sponsored the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Prevention Act that passed the Senate

Introduced legislation with Sen. Patty Murray and Rep. Louise Slaughter to inform women of the availability of emergency contraception.

Now I admit that may not seem like much to you, but this is only the first part of 2007. I understand that she's also and remember, she's done a bit of campaigning this year.

Okay, now please contrast her experience by listing some of Obama's successful legislation in his first year. Granted, since he is less experienced at doing the job he was elected to do, there won't be nearly as much, but let me start you out:

Clinton-Obama National Medical Error Disclosure and Compensation Act

Do you guys really think that people are not going to look at Obama's record or lack of anything substantial.

He is the biggest phony and stands for nothing at all. He lies about his record nor speaks of it.

Voted for patriot act
voted for continuing funding the troops

Why is he trying to pass himself of in the likes of MLK or Kennedy...he should be himself.

What are his plans for this country. HOPE! Sorry but this is not policy nor ideas.

I want someone who has ideas not running on a feeling.

Go Hillary!

I live in Nevada and even considering the Culinary endorsement of Obama, Clinton is BIG here with lots of organization on the ground. Edwards is very popular here and has quite a few union endorsements of his own.

Toss up between Clinton and Obama...final results might mimic NH!

John wrote on January 9, 2008 10:47 AM:

--- Get your fact right before you open your mouth. Nevada on 19th and SC on 26th.

I live in Nevada and even considering the Culinary endorsement of Obama, Clinton is BIG here with lots of organization on the ground.

I have been wondering about that. We have not seen any polls out of NV for weeks now, but the last ones taken showed Sen Clinton quite a bit ahead, so I guess I find it hard to believe that these endorsements (wonderful as they may well be) quite put the whole thing in the bag for my guy. I am not despondant about our chances there by any means, but I am not counting an Obama victory there yet either.

Ummm, I hate to hijack this thread back on to the topic of the post, but I'm relieved he got the union nod despite last night. That was one of my two biggest worries.

My other big worry is that the black folk in South Carolina will say "yep, the old white ladies saw that the sheriff was near and panicked" and go back to Hillary. (Which, now that I think about it is off topic.)

Nevada just ain't Iowa, guys.

These caucuses take place at 11:30AM on a Saturday morning, and are open only to registered Democrats. Turnout has traditionally been paltry. Those conditions favor organizational strength over raw popularity. If you're doubing the importance of these endorsements, then you've never seen the purple legions of the SEIU or the masses of UNITE HERE in action. They'll have their people out, in force, at every caucus. They loathe Hillary for her use of Mark Penn, who's been aiding Cigna in a battle against UNITE HERE. The only question was whether they would go for Edwards or Obama. Some of the rank and file will certainly caucus for Edwards, but coupled with Obama's strength among minorities, younger voters, and professionals, his boost from two solidly working-class, heavily female unions (Hillary's core in other states) should push him over the top by a comfortable margin.

Well, I'm glad my partial listing from Clinton's impressive Senate work record has shut up most of the "experience-exschmeerience" wing of the progressiver-than-thous here.

Except for Michael A., of course, who never tires of poking fun at Clinton's environmental committee drafted legislation to save trees and such nonsense.

And the listing of Obama's impressive Senate record to date is:

Okay, use his stuff from the Illinois legislature that he's co-authored. There must be a lot of it, right?

Since you're going to lose this experience "fight" based on actual work performance, why don't you stick to the "women (as demonstrated by New Hampshire women) are so stupid that they are swayed by emotion and sympathy and easily led by the nose by one of their own kind" meme?

Hope that works out for you.

BTW, to accidently get back on topic for a second, good news for Obama on union endorsements in Nevada. He, Hillary, and Edwards all have spotless labor supporting credentials, so he deserves these as much as anyone does.

And Michael A. -

As I said, and this is a legitimate reason to not vote for her in the primaries IMO - she was wrong in her Iraq Authorization vote - and if she ends up losing because of it, it will be deliciously ironic for many.

That said, I'm not a one-issue voter, nor do I see any distinction with her current position re Obama's voting (or non-voting depending upon circumstances) record since he's been elected to the Senate.

Would you enlighten us all on how his actions and positions adopted on the Iraq War since that day differ from Senator Clinton's actions and positions?

By the way, skipping the vote on K-L that advocated an identical earlier position of his anyway, doesn't count.

CP-

I am not impressed by Clinton's record. What you have merely done is listed bills she has co-authored. What else is in those bills? What do they do? Did they pass? Or did they (mostly) only make healthcare even more expensive than it is now?

How does legislative experience translate into executive experience? Where is the link?

Where is the "change" element in Hillary Clinton? "Change within the system?"

Every fact needs analysis, colonpowwow. There are very few facts in the world that simply speaks for themselves.

By the way, skipping the vote on K-L that advocated an identical earlier position of his anyway, doesn't count.

Sorry colonpowwow, the only similarity between KLA and S.970 is the designation of the IRG as a terrorist group. 970, notably, does not link our troop structure in Iraq to blunting Iran's influence/power.

This is where Clinton has been most successful, muddy the differences between the candidates. At least in my opinion. The experience argument isn't persuasive to me, but the fact that Obama hasn't pushed back hard means that she's effectively positioned herself as the de facto experienced candidate.

Wow, for all the grief that hillary's supporters give Obama supporters for not being gracious, colonpowwow and Adlof have been on quite an obnoxious little tear in this thread.

Way to go guys.

Keith:

I'm sorry. I stand corrected on the import of the K-L amendment, along with noted warharks Levin, Durbin, etc.

Maybe I'm muddying the water a bit as you say (I don't think so), but you're flat out blackening it by contending that K-L is something it isn't and wasn't.

Sure wish your guy would have been more forceful in denouncing it and voting against it in one of his brief appearances in the Senate last year. Oh well, I'm sure he hoped to someday.

In response to the request that someone post Barack Obama's accomplishments here,
rather than wasting bandwidth cutting and pasting, I'll refer you to his own website:

http://www.obama08-wa.com/files/experience.pdf

In demographic terms, I'm the right age and gender to be a Clinton supporter. I've voted for her twice in her NY senatorial campaigns. After witnessing her on the campaign trail in IA and NH, I'll never again vote for her for public office.

Sorry, but the dishonesty, deceit and just plain nastiness she's engaged in during this campaign shows me she and her husband are just as unethical as Bush and Rove.

The day Clinton rubbed her hands in glee and announced "Now the fun part starts" is the day she lost my support.

Vegas,

You're quite right - I'd confused the two processes. My mistake, and apologies. But it's still a sparsely-attended relatively confounding process.

Greg,

Don't confuse the old-school AFL/CIO unions like IBEW with the new service sector unions. These aren't Reagan Democrats or middle-aged white men we're talking about. Both UNITE HERE and SEIU in Vegas are overwhelmingly composed of minority women - and their members are both intensely political and (generally) willing to march the union's tune. They've organized recently, the battles are still being waged, and they regard elections much as they regard labor actions - as struggles for economic survival.

Dear Cynic,

You are certainly right that I know AFL/CIO unions much better than the service sector variety. If you tell me that the latter behave much differently than the former, I will take your word for it. As I said, from your lips to God's ears.

Colonpowwow,

Took me a while to get back. Of course, as always your posts are complete distortions. You are fully aware that I am not a one issue person, but one issue that is huge for me is her iraq war vote and her voting to kill hundreds of thousands for politics. It kinda bothers me, but I know you really don't care about that kind of stuff, killing people and destroying a country and all, since you're so progressive.

He has been voting to fund the troops. Based on the spin employed by your candidate and the republicans, he has been boxed in on this issue. I personally would prefer that the dems got together and defunded the war, but they won't so it is what it is.

On the Iran war vote, I really was pissed about his missing the vote at the time and Keith set me straight. After the exchange with Keith, it sounded like a political set up that he missed the vote by Reid. If I were him at the time, I would have called Reid on it, but he didn't. I was kind of confused about why Reid would have set him up like that, but now I understand as Reid's child is working for the clinton campaign. Gee, I wonder why Reid set Obama up?

Your list is really not impressive as evidenced by my post above pointing out clinton's exchange with the NPR reporter. Kinda dodged that one didn't you colonpowwow.

By the way, clinton's 35 year record of working for change for the american people and making the lives of ordinary americans better is as follows:

Very impressive. By the way, where is the analysis of clinton's legislative record similar to what the NY times did on Obama's record in the Illinois senate? Clinton's people went through 4000 votes and found zippo and then fed it to the times to publish. Where's clinton's record? To quote Walter Mondale, "Where's the beef"? I want to know votes made and positions taken, not puffy legislation, like funding the Woodstock Museum. Maybe I should list this under the "change" that she's accomplished.

I'm still waiting for her to take a tank ride in an oversized helmet.