Rudy On McCain's Torture: John And I Had "Different Experience"
The Huffington Post had a great catch a couple days ago, highlighting an interview of Rudy Giuliani in which he appeared to suggest that he knows that intensive interrogation techniques work because he successfully used similar techniques on mob suspects. As HuffPo's Nico Pitney pointed out, that's inane enough on its own.
But I wanted to highlight another thing from the exchange:
MR. HUNT: Let me try a couple of national security questions. Waterboard. You have noted the Congress has not outlawed it, and that you say it's not necessarily torture; it depends on the circumstances. John McCain says you are wrong and he says you haven't served in the military and have no experience in the conduct of warfare. Do you know more about torture than John McCain?MR. GIULIANI: I can't say that I do but I do know a lot about intensive questioning and intensive questioning techniques. After all, I have had a different experience than John. John has never been -- he has never run city, never run a state, never run a government. He has never been responsible as a mayor for the safety and security of millions of people, and he has never run a law enforcement agency, which I have done.
Now, intensive questioning works. If I didn't use intensive questioning, there would be a lot of mafia guys running around New York right now and crime would be a lot higher in New York than it is. Intensive question has to be used. Torture should not be used. The line between the two is a difficult one.
A "different experience" than McCain? Hmmm -- that strikes us as kind of a casual, offhand way for Rudy to be describing what McCain went through. After all, McCain was tortured regularly for five years in Vietnam, while Rudy secured five draft deferments, according to preeminent Rudy biographer Wayne Barrett. Indeed, as Barrett wrote in Grand Illusions, his book about Rudy and 9/11, Rudy got one deferment for every year that McCain was tortured.
Yep -- we'd agree that those qualify as 'different" experiences.
Comments (48)
Brian wrote on November 5, 2007 6:24 PM:There's simply no way to make any sense of what Giuliani is saying. I better not try to hard, or, as Lewis Black has suggested, blood may shoot out of my nose.
sghost wrote on November 5, 2007 6:28 PM:but different is good, right? didn't we learn that from all those arby's commercials?
Rudy's argument is ridiculous in and of itself, but maybe I can give him a little wriggle room for just practicing standard political posturing of belittling your opponent's records and accomplishments. Otherwise, what's he got left, pride in breaking the law in order to serve his own misguided notions of....the law?
ebu wrote on November 5, 2007 6:29 PM:What with his whole "never run a city" equates foreign policy/torture experience BS. When was the last time he visited Iraq?
tsisageya wrote on November 5, 2007 6:35 PM:I've often felt, lately, that I must be living in an altered state. But, on this one, I spewed out my smoke.
lol
tsisageya wrote on November 5, 2007 6:37 PM:These days, I often feel as if I am living in an altered state. This, however, made me spew my smoke. (tobacco, of course. shut UP!)
adyacent wrote on November 5, 2007 6:40 PM:Is Rudy admitting that, under his watch, NY police waterboarded people? If he cites his NY city experience to claim that he knows about waterboarding and torture...hmmm, may be somebody should ask about this in a debate.
tsisageya wrote on November 5, 2007 6:43 PM:(...and yet another annoying p.s...)
I do not, and CANNOT, pay any attention to this presidential "race". Vote? FUCK IT!
Are there anti-VOMIT pills for such things?
I feel a chemo coming on.
Hank Essay wrote on November 5, 2007 6:45 PM:Yes, it is true that John McCain never had his balls put into a vice by Donna Hanover before being booted out of Gracie Mansion in front of his kids....
So maybe Rudy does not more about torture....
And he has not been a longterm subbie for pro dommes like Rudy has.
Trust me -- Rudita KNOWS torture and is infinitely blackmailable.
Tsisageya, I'm on ativan and zofran right now and those are not enough for Rudy's blood-brain barrier crashing toxicity.
tsisageya wrote on November 5, 2007 6:52 PM:Tsisageya, I'm on ativan and zofran right now and those are not enough for Rudy's blood-brain barrier crashing toxicity.
studyrudy:
How sweet for you, dear.
Sorry to read above about someone who says they can't make the smallest effort & take a few minutes once every 2 or 4 years to vote, very sad, but very much the majority.
I hope the people of NYC are getting a good look at who they elected for so many years. I don't see how such a fascist like Rudy can get elected in NYC. Guess the same way Romney was elected as the gov of Mass. I hope the dems will finally get out next year & vote or take advantage of the absentee option for a change. The repubs are by far a minority, but, they vote! If they win elections, it's because non-repug's let them!
tsisageya wrote on November 5, 2007 7:11 PM:Sorry to read above about someone who says they can't make the smallest effort & take a few minutes once every 2 or 4 years to vote, very sad, but very much the majority.
Dearest TJ,
Perhaps you should ASK me before you go ASSUMING everything that you APPEAR to ASSUME.
You might LEARN something, Mr. Kneejerk.
NYMARJ wrote on November 5, 2007 7:25 PM:I know it is not popular - but we should we going after this guy not each other. The independents still think he is this liberal not like the other kind of republican and the media is going to help him keep that image.
Jordan wrote on November 5, 2007 7:39 PM:The root cause (and arguably the only issue at play here) is Reagan-era FCC changes and control of the airwaves.
This Presidential election, far more than the two that preceded it, is an exercise in completely fictitious narrative on our television screens and in our newspapers. The Republican field of "candidates" are all Kabuki performers in a Rupert Murdoch/ClearChannel pantomime; the direct result is the kind of ridiculous nonsense coming from the mouth of the "front runner" and the fact that he is apparently their front-runner despite the complete lack of any real substance whatsoever to his campaign.
The Republican "debates" and all the ancillary commentary proves this. Grown men and women in business attire appear on television every night and discuss these clown candidates in solemn tones as if their stated "positions" are something more than 100% substance-free sloganeering; as if their posturing and sound bites have anything to do with reality.
Until television and newspapers are forced to abandon their utterly fictitious "coverage" and actually portray the real world (which won't happen without a significant FCC shakeup and an AT&T-style forced breakup of conglomerate ownership), the Giuliani-level nonsense will only get worse.
linda wrote on November 5, 2007 7:47 PM:someone should get the nypd on record to what methods they used when questioning their mob suspects.
mkolb wrote on November 5, 2007 7:53 PM:I'm uncharacteristically speechless!
pseudonymous in nc wrote on November 5, 2007 8:02 PM:Shorter Rudy: "one thing I do know about is shoving broom handles up brown guys' asses. That should go down well in South Carolina."
Uncle_Meat wrote on November 5, 2007 8:08 PM:I don't get it..
The best I can come up with is that by saying "I have had a different experience than John. John has never been -- he has never run city, never run a state, never run a government. He has never been responsible as a mayor for the safety and security of millions of people, and he has never run a law enforcement agency, which I have done", he has somwhow equated doing his job with being tortured. Now granted, I'm sure a majority of people can and do feel the same way, but I think it's safe to say McCain's torture was of a different variety.
So now he wants to run a country? This must be his ultimate view of self-torture. Does that mean he's a sadomasochist? A cross dressing one at that?
Guili the tormentor?
lol
Uncle_Meat wrote on November 5, 2007 8:11 PM:Sorry,
Giuli the tormentor..
It would be hysterical if he weren't serious.
Martin Gale wrote on November 5, 2007 8:12 PM:He's a complete joke. First, his answer to all questions was, "9/11. 9/11. 9/11." Now, it's "I was a mayor. I was a mayor. I was a mayor." But it's the Democrats who are focus grouped and scripted!
Jordan Orlando wrote on November 5, 2007 8:17 PM:Case in point viz. the fictitious media narrative: Giuliani is in photographs, crossdressing, but somehow Edwards is the effeminate candidate.
Radio Head wrote on November 5, 2007 8:23 PM:What? The son of a knee-capping enforcer thinks that pain helps coerce compliance? Who'd have thunk it?
NJ Lawyer wrote on November 5, 2007 8:25 PM:Rudy has never had any foreign policy experience. He has never served in the military. He has never been tortured. And lately, he has never told the truth either.
tomtom wrote on November 5, 2007 8:51 PM:Yet Rudy leads in the polls.
All this talk about the intrinsic goodness of the American people is about 45% right.
We live in a country where a thuggish buffoon leads in one of the two major parties.
After the inexcusable 2004 debacle, it is damn depressing.
freepatriot wrote on November 5, 2007 9:09 PM:so is rudy saying that he is responsible for torturing criminal suspects
cuz we got laws about shit like that, and New York City might be up shit creek due to rudy's :confession"
pastor Doodah wrote on November 5, 2007 9:09 PM:Er, if Rudy the terrorism expert was responsible for the "safety and security" of those millions of people, didn't he fuck up pretty badly on 9/11?
Why hasn't he been laughed off the air yet?
ohdave wrote on November 5, 2007 9:11 PM:Other experience? Is that like other priorities?
Typical chickenhawk speak.
fbar wrote on November 5, 2007 9:17 PM:Gotta give the guy props -- this is excellent politics. He is aggressive, unapologetic and doing a superb jobbing selling his experience as a "chief executive." This is why he's a contender in the face of a thousand and one reasons he shouldn't be let anywhere near the White House.
ihatebeets wrote on November 5, 2007 9:49 PM:Rudy is working awfully hard trying to convince people that being mayor equates to being a US Senator or Congressman because...well, you know he had all this awesome responsibility running a police force, torturing mafia guys, meeting they city's payroll, dissing the minority population and making sure the streets were clean and the trains ran on time.
Anyone who believes this claptrap deserves the utter and complete disaster a Rudy presidency would bring. I pray daily that the public at large sees Rudy as the parody he is and sends him back to his law firm/business/defender of oxycontin makers so he can make his payroll.
green heron wrote on November 5, 2007 9:52 PM:You'd think McCain would unload on Rudy for this, but McCain jumped the shark long ago (back in 04 actually--the day he let Bush put him in a bear hug during the run up to the election). McCain is so compromised, he'll probably endorse Rusy in the end.
blue mole wrote on November 5, 2007 10:04 PM:Remember, Rudi did most of his mafia "intensive interrogations" while he was US Atty under St. Ronnie and the first Bush criminal. Then he owned the cop after '93
poe wrote on November 5, 2007 10:21 PM:This is funny, but I think its disingenuine to headline this post "I WOULD SAY SO" when Rudy's immediate response is "I can't say that I do but...". In fact, I don't see the "I would say so" response anywhere?
Paul Easton wrote on November 5, 2007 10:24 PM:Jeez. I did not use to believe in Satan but for sure he has a lot of followers in high places in US government and politics. And they can't all be deluded, right?
McCain is so compromised, he'll probably endorse Rusy in the end.
Now that's a rumor I could, uh, get behind. (Not that there's anything wrong with that...)
Wade Morris wrote on November 5, 2007 10:33 PM:Maybe he stayed in a holiday inn express last night
Anon 701 wrote on November 5, 2007 11:05 PM:Seems to me...Rudy has profited, living the life of a fake for far too long. May his distorted, egotistical rants, finally, deliver the defeat, he so rightfully deserves.
Juanito wrote on November 5, 2007 11:10 PM:Rudy Dudy:
America's Transvestite
(Gowns courtesy of THE COMPANY).
johnd wrote on November 5, 2007 11:13 PM:I swear Rudy's advisors have to be telling him to say this way over the top BS on purpose. It's the Karl Rove "attack their strengths like they are weaknesses" on steroids.
Here's how the Rudy coaching session must have went:
Rudy: OK guys McCain is a friggin torture expert - how am I going to say my point of view is right?
Evil Rudy advisor: Make stuff up, say McCain has no experience and say you know all about sqeezing mob guys into talking because you ran NY.
Rudy: But that's all demonstrably false and I had nothing to do with how NY law enforcement questioned mob suspects.
ERA: So what? We want to attract the voters who want us to kick ass and take names, that's our base. We don't need a "good" reason to be more pro-torture than McCain we just need "A" reason.
Ross Best wrote on November 5, 2007 11:25 PM:Giuliani knows more about torture than McCain does. McCain was tortured but Giuliani aspires to be Torturer-in-Chief.
pseudonymous in nc wrote on November 5, 2007 11:38 PM:Gotta give the guy props -- this is excellent politics.
He's basically the Lord High Freeper. He lies, continues to lie when challenged, and his response is 'whatcha gonna do about it? 9/11!'
Pretty astonishing to watch, because the press is already showing signs it's cowed by such brazen BS.
Jimmy Breslin, come back out of retirement for this one and earn yourself a Medal of Freedom.
Jamey wrote on November 5, 2007 11:59 PM:If McCain weren't senile or ball-less, he would counter Rudy's claims of torture expertise with a two-word statement: Abner Louima.
slb wrote on November 6, 2007 12:17 AM:Funny how those who have actually been subjected to waterboarding unquestionably consider it torture.
Today's broadcast of "Democracy Now!" included an interview with an 86-year-old French journalist (Henri Alleg) who was subjected to waterboarding by the French military in Algeria in 1957: http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/05/1538212
"Intensive interrogation" my ass. Alleg made the same point that Naomi Klein of The Nation made some months ago: The real purpose of using this and other forms of torture is not to obtain information, but to terrorize the opposition and anyone in the general populace who might be inclined to join it.
We have met the terrorist, and he is us.
CalD wrote on November 6, 2007 12:21 AM:I was just about to post the very same thought.
Evadt wrote on November 6, 2007 4:19 AM:So Rudy's takin' shots at John.
Like it or not, how we got to war doesn’t seem to make much difference anymore; there are enemies who enjoy killing Americans and friends… appeasement is untenable.
And what other power should democratic nations turn to? Russia? China? Is the European Union prepared to go-it-alone? All faults aside, name one other nation that can be relied upon to defend democracy? Yeah, we gotta clean up what’s left of our government; but all considered, America and allies remain the best hope: and that’s a fact. If the United States isolates, bet your last Euro on the end of Europe and other destabilization ahead.
There are a number of vets and retired military who don’t trust politicians who themselves have never been in the trenches. Rudy’s piece in Sept/Oct issue of Foreign Affairs is one example. War! War! War! Bomb! Bomb! Bomb! The same song the cowboy’s been yodelin’ in our ears for awhile.
So how is it that Americans voted in Dubious Dubya, when it is/was obvious by the second time around the boy was not as advertised. We have to admit, he hasn’t been a sharp CINC — like he gets his ideas from comic books.
And same goes for Big Sky Veep who is reported to have received three deferments during Nam: they say his response to questions regarding the issue has been, “I had other priorities at the time.” Okay then: what makes you qualified as second in command of America’s Armed Services, sir? How do Americans and troops at war get inspiration from a man who has difficulty handling firearms, sir?
And on the side, anyone want to guess how many veterans are working in the current administration — how many on the Supreme Court? We’ve got desk-jock pencil necks who have not served in the military, running the war on terror, and makin’ rulings that are uh, well, un-American. Some call ‘em “Chicken Hawks” —politician lawyers who talk the talk, but never walked the walk. Bye the way, so long Karen Hughes.
Not long ago, American men who had other priorities during times of war enjoyed acting out Hollywood hero versions of John Wayne, Bonanza, The Rifleman, and Have Gun Will Travel, etc… they picked up the TV message, identified with the romance, and lived in-character at work and in public. You could always tell who they were, not men who had actually served in WWII / Korea / Nam—reticent, humble, and not into shooting things up, half cocked.
Now, we’ve got the neocons running the show — or acting in it; they live their season of vicarious bravado lifted from Rambo; The Sopranos; professional wrestling — some have experience making war on civilians. They would have you believe they’re the tough guys… And unlike like men who have been true warriors, they do the jingo-jingle an’ run their mouths behind the microphone — and da-da-dat’s all, folks: no spine at the rear.
So far: there is one Republican qualified to lead America thru these difficult times: John McCain. Like all men who have truly been to war, you won’t hear him boasting, or whooping it up like the god-damn blowhard chicken-hawk politicians. Men who understand war for what it is don’t lollygag about it: John’s tough and for real… he’s been there—done that. And if you listen close, he’s not authoritarian/totalitarian — which is why they took him down during the last election. John’s right, but not lunatic right.
Perhaps you’ve noticed, men who have been to war don’t make a big show ‘bout bein’ bad-ass. Unlike others that could be named, John is a man of conscience.
Does America really want to continue electing big talkers who’ve never done any walkin’?
why does guiliani keep saying that these senators have no experience running a government? does he not understand what the senate is?
BroThadeus wrote on November 6, 2007 7:51 AM:[em]poe wrote on November 5, 2007 10:21 PM:
This is funny, but I think its disingenuine to headline this post "I WOULD SAY SO" when Rudy's immediate response is "I can't say that I do but...". In fact, I don't see the "I would say so" response anywhere[/em]
The "I WOULD SAY SO" headline is Josh's response to Rudy's assertion that he has had a different experience than McCain.
Rudy: I've had a different experience...
Josh: I would say so!
Remember when George W. said that McCain's time in a Vietnam prison wasn't as bad as he depicted? Remember how the Swiftboaters mocked Kerry's purple hearts?
I think this is Guiliani's attempt to raise himself to the "real" heroic stature of John McCain-- a fruitless, vain effort indeed.
Nice try little man. You are no John McCain and you'll never be.
NH Dem wrote on November 6, 2007 9:00 AM:"I have had a different experience than John."
Rudy's qualifications are superior to McCain's in this regard.
After all, as Rudy is clearly aware, with torture it is better to give than to receive.
