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Romney Brushes Off Insult From McCain's Mother
Speaking to reporters in New Hampshire, Mitt Romney responded to remarks on Friday from John McCain's 95-year old mother Roberta McCain.
The elder McCain said during a TV appearance with her son that any problems Romney might have fixed at the 2002 Olympics were themselves the fault of Mormon corruption. "As far as the Salt Lake City thing, he's a Mormon and the Mormons of Salt Lake City had caused that scandal," she said. "And to clean that up, again, it's not a subject."
"Mrs. McCain's comments?" Romney said yesterday. "Oh I give a pass to anybody that's over 90. They can say whatever they want."
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Sounds to me like Mrs. McCain has some notions of discrimination against the Mormon faith. I wonder how much of her discrimination is in her son John. It almost makes a person wonder just how much bias against religions he might have if one basis his mothers' words on his beliefs. After all, a mother probably has a considerable amount of influence on her children.
November 12, 2007 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course Romney is going to brush this off that is what Mormons do. Mormons don't make a big deal out of the fact that people are bigoted towards them. Imagine what would have happened had McCains mom said the same thing except incerting Alabama for Salt Lake and Blacks for Mormons. There would have been a national uproar. I am from New York and have family and friends that are Mormon and trust me when I say there is no reason to fear the Mormons.
November 12, 2007 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm finding it hard to get this one off my tongue, but, um, I agree with Willard on this one. Weird. Anyway, she's 95. She remembers WWI, prohibition, and the Great Depression. For the majority of her life, Mormons didn't allow black people at the pulpit. I'd be wary of them, too. I still think they're a little strange.
November 12, 2007 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just want to set Seth straight. The black people were never kept from the pulpit. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not have a paid ministry. The pulpt is open to anyone, male or female, any race and any age. The preisthood was restricted until 1988. Also on Mrs. McCain's statement Salt Lake City is only about half Latter-day Saints. It was wasn't the "Mormons" who created the scandal and the mess. The facts do show that Mitt did lead the way to fixing the problem.
November 12, 2007 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I continue to see non-LDS view points ostensibly claiming authoritative explanations of what Mormons believe. But when I read what they write I shake my head and wonder what planet some of these people come from. If you want to know what Mormons believe go to the Church to find out. If it did not come from an official Church organ it almost always is wrong. Less than 5% of what I read is accurate. So if you have already made up your mind to hate us, at least hate us for what we really believe and not some of this made up nonsense.
November 12, 2007 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seth, Mormons have always allowed blacks to be members. Even 20 years before the civil war when many other denominations didn't allow membership.
I am a Mormon, I'm just like anyone else. Just like you. I'm not even a little strange. [If you were to meet me, you wouldn't even know I was a Mormon unless I told you.]
We are a diverse lot. Some of us are even democrats.
I wonder at John's tactic of allowing his mother to slander 13 million people, and then refuting it. It's a bit like making a statement in a court of law and then withdrawing it under objection. It's still been said and the jury has still heard it.
November 12, 2007 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Old lady McCain is just a belligerent nut that will say anything to try and get her son elected. I respect McCain for serving our country, but his Mom needs to check her facts before she opens it again on national TV.
November 12, 2007 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I want a Tancredo - McCain's Mom ticket.
November 12, 2007 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
The correct date is 1978, not 1988.
November 12, 2007 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am always taken back when I read something or hear someone say something in such a matter-of-fact way about my faith or religious history that is just incorrect. Those of Aferican descent have always been welcomed into the church and to the pulpit. Even more so, I would argue, than was the case with many other churches. As far as I know they have always been baptized into the Church and were even some of our earliest members. And we were strongly againt slavery when that was an issue. It is true that men of african descent were unable to recieve the priesthood until 78. I think what seth H. should have said was that for the majority of her life, Mrs. Mccain was TAUGHT that Mormons didn't allow blacks at the pulpit. Obviously some of that instilled bogotry that she was taught still exists.
November 12, 2007 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mormon Apostle and apologist, Bruce R. McConkie, (1915-1985) touched on the black issue in his book "Mormon Doctrine:" "...this is the standard LDS guide to church doctrine, found in nearly every active Mormon household." He wrote in an early edition of his book about the repercussions on earth of a war in heaven:
"Of the two-thirds who followed Christ, however, some were more valiant than others....Those who were less valiant in pre-existence and who thereby had certain spiritual restrictions imposed upon them during mortality are known to us as the negroes. Such spirits are sent to earth through the lineage of Cain, the mark put upon him for his rebellion against God and his murder of Abel being a black skin. (Moses 5:16-41; 12:22) Noah's son Ham married Egyptus, a descendant of Cain, thus preserving the negro lineage through the flood. (Abraham 1:20-27) Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. ...The present status of the negro rests purely and simply on the foundation of pre-existence....The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from."
November 13, 2007 9:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
In 1954, Mormon elder Mark E. Peterson discussed blacks and the priesthood in an address to a Convention of Teachers of Religion at the College Level at Brigham Young University. He said:
"The reason that one would lose his blessings by marrying a Negro is due to the restriction placed upon them. 'No person having the least particle of Negro blood can hold the Priesthood' (Brigham Young). It does not matter if they are one-sixth Negro or one-hundred and sixth, the curse of no Priesthood is the same. If an individual who is entitled to the Priesthood marries a Negro, the Lord has decreed that only spirits who are not eligible for the Priesthood will come to that marriage as children. To intermarry with a Negro is to forfeit a 'Nation of Priesthood holders'...."
That is, all male descendents of a racially-mixed marriage in which one spouse had even a single distant black ancestor would be forever prohibited from becoming a Mormon priest. [All female descendents are also prohibited from ordination, as are females of all other races]. However, a black or partially black person could be baptized in the Mormon faith and attain heaven after death. Peterson concluded:
"If that Negro is faithful all his days, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."
November 13, 2007 10:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Brigham Young, who led many of the Mormons to Salt Lake City, UT wrote:
Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African Race? If the White man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.
Cain slew his brother. . . and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin.
You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants;' and they will be, until that curse is removed."
November 13, 2007 10:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
NYC and gharr1041-
I hear what you are saying. It seems that the people of the times struggled with race issues. Just as Christians suggested the New Testament condoned slavery and genocide some Mormons too had an opinion. However, unless a "Thus saith the Lord" accompanies the statement I think you can safely assume the general authority is voicing his own opinion. If it is not said or written by a general authority it does not represent the Church's official position even if the president says it. Not everything coming out of their mouths is scripture. Also keep in mind that the church in the early days was a work in progress -- even more so than it is today.
November 13, 2007 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Church teaches that God will not do for us what we can do for ourselves. That means we are charged with working many of these issues out to the best of our ability and when we have done the best we can, we take our conclusions and decisions to the Lord in prayer for confirmation. Sometimes, maybe a lot of times, we get it wrong. But it is only through our effort and persistence that we discover what God wants us to do. This is the process even the general authorities employ. If we strive to get close to and stay in harmony with the the Holy Spirit can we know. One thing the general authorities stress is staying faithful to the end. When they say this I have seen them be more humble than at maybe any other time. I think they know just how hard it is. Certainly more than most of mere mortals.
November 13, 2007 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Catholic church persecuted Copernicus for saying the Earth was not the center of the universe, but I don't think anyone in their right mind would accuse a present-day Catholic of these beliefs. The same for witch-burning protestants. Bruce and Brigham were men of their times and should be judged for that. As pointed out, their beliefs were not scripture and they were not infallible. What were their contemperaries saying? By the way, Brigham had some very progressive things to say about how blacks should be treated more humanly, and not enslaved and again this was some decades before the civil war. [as I'm sure you were already aware]
November 13, 2007 11:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain knows and loves Mormons because the Mormons in Arizona have helped him get elected many times. A lot of people in Arizona share his mother's wrong-headed viewpoints concerning Mormons but do not openly voice them as she did. These like-minded folks are simply bigots. Nothing more and nothing less.
The news media in Phoenix helps out each sweeps week by sending reporters up to Colorado City AZ to breathlessly tell us, for the 10th time, about the nutcakes there who practice polygamy while quietly slandering Mormons who do not.
November 14, 2007 1:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
doug
lds church reversed their position in 78 not 88
November 14, 2007 1:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just a response to the earlier comment about Bruce R. McConkie's "Mormon Doctrine" being a standard source in all LDS homes. Wrong. This book is considered out-dated by members of the Church and hasn't been used as a source for Mormon doctrine for many years. Even in its heyday it was considered to contain inaccuracies and be too "hard-line" for typical members of the church.
November 14, 2007 9:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Elder McConkie was a good and decent man of enormous intellect and understanding. But he would be the first to tell others that he was as subject to human error as the rest of us. It is only because of his commitment to God that he was able to function at a higher level. Being an apostle did not mean he had no flaws. No apostle would say that about themselves or each other. In fact they regularly say that the key to winning the race is to endure to the end. And failing to do so is their greatest fear.
November 14, 2007 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
A little understanding can sure ruin a good mad. I suppose that is what missionary work does. It ruins a good mad. It is hard to hate someone when you take the time to seek out correct information about them before drawing conclusions. It doesn't mean you will agree with them but, maybe, you just won't hate them quite so much.
November 14, 2007 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am a proud LDS, I am not at all strange... many of my friends are not members of the church and most of them are democrats. I am a hard-core republican.
Really, regardless of age... it's obvious... people do not know what really happened and how Mitt got involved with the 2002 Olympics. I'd suggest you read before you jump the gun- or even think of using it to attack Mitt... read his autobiography titled "Turnaround"... it says it all... there is absolutely no conspiracy or scandal between the Mormon Church and the Salt Lake Olympics 2002.
MITT IS THE MAN... AMERICA WILL SURELY MAKE A BIG MISTAKE IF MITT IS NOT ELECTED... WE WILL HAVE HIGH HIGH TAXES because he was the first person to sign a promise that he will not raise tax if elected as the next president... forget religion... think tax... do you want to pay more in taxes... of course not... SHUT UP AND VOTE MITT!
November 15, 2007 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink