Ordinarily I wouldn't recommend reading a Peggy Noonan op-ed, but I think this is a pretty good one (obviously because I agree with the premise).

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110010691

Hm'mmm. If you had your choise between somebody you've known for over 17 years (Hillary) and someone you know very little about (Obama) - who would YOU choose?

Duh????

If my choice was between someone (Hillary) who lost the universal healthcare issue in 1994, showed no leadership from that date to fight for the issue, and who then voted to send America into a war footing with Iraq even without imminent danger to America, and someone who got the Iraq war right (along with the majority of Congressional Democrats) and who has shown leadership in securing nuclear materials so they won't fall into the hands of terrorists as well as supporting legislation and personal openness in his campaign or tax forms to end WDC corruption, who would you vote for?

And does it matter that you are allowing someone else to fight this war for you, Coonsey? And instead of supporting someone who never wanted to get in the mess to begin with, you're going to rely on someone with the worst possible judgment on the whole issue? If you or someone in your family were fighting in Iraq, would you still support Clinton?

stlounick said:

"If you or someone in your family were fighting in Iraq, would you still support Clinton?"

My nephew's wife is in Iraq right now and he got back about a year ago and is still facing being sent back.

Andy and I are both voting for Hillary. Denise is leaning to Obama.

Point well taken.

People can pooh-pooh these polls all they want and claim that this is all Hillary spin. Taylor Marsh speculates, the Hillary campaign is acting as if they are 10 points behind and from my interaction with some Hillary staff and volunteers, I'd say that is probably about accurate. You can continue to hold onto the hope that her campaign is in its last throes, but I don't suspect that will help beat her.

keith

My point is merely that today's talking points on the far right and the far left are becoming very close in nature for some odd reason. Hillary seems to be concentrating on the mushy middle to expand her lead and bring her home (coldly and calculatedly as opposed to thoughtfully and pensively if you wish), and that shows the discipline and experience needed to win an election (to administer?) especially one against such outstanding candidates as Obama and the rest of the field.

Sorry, Noonan just irritates me into not thinking clearly. You are correct ;-)

gq, where did you pick up that anyone is saying that Hillary's campaign is in its "last throes". Hillary is a formidable campaigner and I fully acknowledge that.

If my best shot--as I think Hillary's is--is to be perceived as the "incumbent", then I would be pushing out as many name recognition polls as possible. Why? To discourage donors and supporters of other candidates. It is to reinforce the inevitability of her nomination.

I plan on having an election--you know where American voters actually stroll down to their polling place and make a decision. All interested voters--and without the "no point in you going" nonsense that the Hillary campaign and her supporters are putting out. She might win, but let's vote first, shall we?

Vote for Clinton is four more years of Bush. Why did she seal her records and papers in the clinton libary.? It,s the same trick George Bush did and told everybody to trust me, and look at what we got. How can anybody be dumb enough to fall for that again, if she has nothing to hide release them so we can learn about her decisions and life choices think and get the truth do not get caught in all this media hype bullshit they want her to win just like bush when he ran they procted him with rosey stories and phoney polls

Past performance is the best predictor of future performance. Past vote for Iraq -vs- Speaking out against it and giving the reasons why - predictions of pretty much, just what occurred. Past judgment calls are the best predictor of future judgment calls. And a more recent example of Hillary's judgment - the Iran vote. Hillary is not the nominee because the media has declared her so. We still have a vote! And it is very easy to know Obama. There is a lot available to read and a lot of legislation he sponsored in the Senate.

Stop Her Before She Lies Again

Hillary Claims Credit for 1997 SCHIP

More lies
More of the SOS
Bush Lite
Back to the Future

colonpowwow wrote on October 5, 2007 4:34 PM: "Just some friendly advice. When you say that someone who has been well-known and visible for 17 years, and with the 12th most liberal voting record in the Senate, is just like Bush, you lose a bit of your credibility."

What a laugh. And what has Hillarys "liberal" voting record accomplished, a $2 trillion war in Iraq that is bleeding the nation literally and in terms of the national debt that all the children Hillary claims to champion will have to pay off. Hillary has been a do nothing Senator in a do nothing Congress. She showed horrendously bad judgment in voting for the war in Iraq, enabling the worst foreign policy fiasco in American history, and voted to encourage the same pathyway to attacking Iran.

colonpowwow, Hillary Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton is owned by corporate special interests, she says and does whatever will get her elected and then will protect the highly profitable status quo. When it comes to banks, health care and drug companies, oil companies, defense contractors, and importers of inforerior/uninspected/dangerous Chinese products (thanks ot Bill's relaxing of trade restrictions and Hillary's WalMart board service) THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN EFFECT BETWEEN BUSH AND CLINTON. Hillary is the status quo. We need CHANGE.

You know, reading the Noonan piece among similar others, if "Democrat" means so little to Clinton ...

including an AIPAC-sponsored foreign policy that demands U.S. presence in Iraq until 2013, bombing and/or attacking Iran to protect Israel's status as the sole unregulated nuclear power in the region; a health plan that mandates individual enrollment only to enrich pillaging insurers; what-is-is dissembling on the meaning and continuation of torture/rendition; election fraud and corruption rife with donor felons, fugitives, indicted campaign officials; key campaign advisers up to their necks in dirty tricks AGAINST Democratic constituencies

... why should it mean anything to anyone?

Barack Obama, GOP draftee
John Edwards, GOP draftee
Colin Powell, GOP draftee
Michael Bloomberg, late convention nominee.

No one should take Democratic votes for granted, especially with Clinton effectively channeling Bush-Bibi-Podhoretz.

That 50% so many seem so sure and smug about is about as bankable as New Century stock.

Colonpowwow, what are the far right talking points that you refered to above?????

I'll tell you what when nazi Trent Lott goes on Sunday talk shows and sings the praises of Mrs. Bill you obviously know what the far right talking points are, which I outlined above. At least be truthful colonpowwow and stop the bs generalities that are not based in fact. We have had that now for 6 1/2 years. We don't need it anymore with Mrs. Bill.

Pretending that HRC is something that she is not is not going to help any of your preferred candidates and will help the Republicans.

She will have to fight for it but she will make a good President.