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Biden Slams Both Hillary And Obama On Kyl-Lieberman
Joe Biden has a new press release out regarding the current arguments about the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment — and he goes after both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on the grounds that Hillary voted for it and Obama didn't actually show up.
"Unlike Sen. Clinton, I don’t trust this administration to follow the plain meaning of the law," Biden says. "And unlike Sen. Obama, I believe this was a vitally important vote – not one to miss and then complain about later."
Check out the full statement after the jump.
(Via Ben Smith.)
BIDEN CALLS FOR UNIFIED OPPOSITION TO BUSH IRAN POLICY Questions Decisions By Sens. Clinton and ObamaWilmington, DE (October 26, 2007) – Sen. Joe Biden today called for his Democratic opponents to unite behind a clear set of principles to prevent Bush and Cheney from leading the United States into another dangerous misadventure in Iran. Citing President Bush’s recent allusion to “World War III” and Vice President Cheney's threatening comments last weekend, Sen. Biden criticized Senator Clinton for her vote to designate the entire Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist group, which could bolster Bush Administration efforts to justify military action against Iran. He also criticized Sen. Obama for attacking Sen. Clinton's vote after he missed the vote on Iran altogether. Sen. Biden voted against the amendment to the Defense Authorization Act last month.
"There’s no question that Iran’s leadership poses a challenge to us – especially the possibility they will get a nuclear weapon,” said Sen. Biden. “The question is, what’s the smart thing to do about it? If anybody thinks you’re going to stop Iran from getting the bomb by invading them or instigating an air war, they’re mistaken. That would solidify every single Iranian – and they’re divided right now with their leadership – in their opposition to us. It would get every Islamic state in the world further enraged about America. It would generate more danger and loss for American lives in Iraq.
”I voted against the amendment to designate Iran’s Revolutionary Guard as a terrorist organization because I don’t trust this administration not to twist its words into a justification for war. Do you think this president abided by the spirit of the 1998 Iraqi Liberation Act? What did he use it for? He used it to justify taking down Saddam. Do you think he abided by the spirit of the legislation authorizing use of force in Iraq? He did not. He just leap-frogged over the conditions in the legislation to go to war. Do you think this President believes the Constitution places any limits on executive power? Now, you're telling me we can trust this President and this Vice President not to use legislation that declares roughly a third of the entire Iranian military a terrorist organization as a justification to use force against Iran?"
"Unlike Sen. Clinton, I don’t trust this administration to follow the plain meaning of the law. And unlike Sen. Obama, I believe this was a vitally important vote – not one to miss and then complain about later.
”Ratcheting up tension with Iran plays right into President Ahmadinejad’s hands. It allows him to distract the Iranian people from the terrible failures of his leadership. And it keeps oil prices high, which just lines the pockets of Iran’s government. It’s hard to think of a more self-defeating policy.
"Democrats should unite behind an approach to Iran that is both tough and smart. We have to keep our eyes on the prize: preventing Iran from getting the bomb. The Bush administration spent five years obsessed with the idea of getting rid of the Iranian regime. None of us like the regime, but think about the total illogic of Bush’s policy: renounce nuclear weapons and when you do, we’ll try tot take you down anyway. Instead of regime change, we need a policy that promotes conduct change. The best way to do that is to make it very clear to Iran what it risks in terms of isolation if it continues to pursue nuclear weapons but also what it stands to gain if it does the right thing. And we have to keep our allies on board and make sure that Iran is the world’s problem, not just our own.
“We must be engaged in aggressive international diplomacy at the same time we are tightening the economic sanctions against Iran. The American people must know that we will probably need to toughen up those sanctions – which will require some sacrifice here at home – before we can convince Iran to change courts. But these are sanctions necessary if we are going to avoid war.
“And most importantly, we need to accelerate the timetable for adopting my exit plan in Iraq. Because getting out of Iraq will allow us to focus on our efforts on the more dangerous threats coming out of Iran.”
GO BIDEN!!!
October 26, 2007 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not that Biden had a whole lot of my respect to begin with, but blatantly misrepresenting the facts about the vote (with regard to Obama's miss) just emptied that bank account. It's a Republican-style no-substance attack. At least Obama is articulate while "complaining about it", hmm, Joe?
October 26, 2007 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
What is untrue about the following statement: ". . . unlike Sen. Obama, I believe this was a vitally important vote –- not one to miss and then complain about later"? Are you claiming Obama did not miss the vote or that it was not vitally important enough to miss?
October 26, 2007 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
September 25th:
Mr. REID. Mr. Chairman, there will be no more votes tonight. We have tried to work something out on the Kyl-Lieberman amendment and the Biden amendment. We have been unable to do that.
We have been very close a few times, but we have just been informed that Senator Biden will not have a vote anytime in the near future. There will not be a vote on the other one [Kyl/Lieberman] anytime in the near future. We hope tonight will bring more clearness on the issue.
September 26th (After morning session where Biden/KLA Amendments were not considered):
UPDATE @ 12:14
UC Agreement reached to vote "right now" on Biden/Brownback #2997 and Kyle/Lieberman #3017, each as modified, and each with a 60 vote threshold. The vote on Biden/Brownback got underway at 12:16.
Following that action, the Senate will proceed to Coburn #2196 (as part of the agreement), and then to Webb #2999 (not part of the agreement).
12:40: Biden/Brownback #2997: Passed 75-23
GOP Aye votes: Bennett, Brownback, Chambliss, Cochran, Coleman, Collins, Domenici, Ensign, Grassley, Gregg, Hatch, Hutchison, Isakson, Lott, Lugar, Martinez, McConnell, Murkowski, Roberts, Shelby, Smith, Snowe, Specter, Stevens, Sununu, and Warner
DEM Nay votes: Feingold, Hagel & Voinovich (I know, two of those are Republicans)
McCain and Obama are on the campaign trail.
Senator Webb reasserts his argument that the Lieberman/Kyl amendment represents the first time the US (and Congress too; declarations of an organization being "terrorist" usually come from the executive directly, or the executive via the State Department) has declared a formal part of a foreign government as a terrorist entity. Voting on that amendment started at about 12:44.
http://cboldt.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html
All noted without comment.
October 26, 2007 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I give Joe Biden a round of applause for this one! Some things are more important than campaign appearances over a year in advance of the election . . .
October 26, 2007 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly, Dasher.
October 26, 2007 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden has it exactly right on this and on the soft partition of Iraq. No other Dem comes close in terms of articulating exactly how we should address Iraq and Iran. Too bad the MSM is too busy with the long drawn out coronation of Hillary to bother with the real issues. But it's all about celebrity and star power and the horse race and nothing about fixing what's wrong starting right now.
October 26, 2007 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, anon. I was starting to think no facts were ever going to appear on this topic.
Criticizing presidential candidates for missing votes that don't come down to one vote is always dumb.
October 26, 2007 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hindsight is always 20/20 -- how did Obama KNOW IN ADVANCE it wasn't going to be a close vote -- does he at least know now to be around for any "vitally important" votes?
October 26, 2007 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Point is that Hillary keeps treating Dubya like the ditsy aunt who always screws things up but "means well" because her "heart is in the right place". He doesn't mean well, never has, never will. His heart is not in the right place and his intelligence is non-existent. This Dem politcal calculus that we don't have the votes to buck him now but just wait until the Dem president is elected, is wishful thinking because the longer it goes on the more the public is losing faith in Dems and believe it or not the thug party is GAINING because of it and we may in fact NOT win the election.
October 26, 2007 6:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hopefully, phil james.
October 26, 2007 6:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jake D:
My understanding is that Senators often know what the vote count is beforehand (and this one wasn't close--so all the more reason to believe that the single vote would not count). Do you have information to suggest that this was not the case here?
Second, what gives you and Dasher the impression that Obama knew, or had reason to believe the vote would come up when it did (on a half-hour notice the afternoon after Sen. Reid announced it would not come up in the near future). Taken at face value, it appears that Obama could safely assume that the vote would not come up the next day. Unless there was something else going on, it looks like Obama was not putting campaigning over voting. Do you have information to the contrary? Obama appears to be the victim of bad luck (or, less charitably, the victim of a Clinton conspiracy).
I eagerly anticipate your reply.
October 26, 2007 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, please, Obama is not the victim of bad luck or a vast left-wing conspiracy either -- I don't know if the vote count was made public or not -- how about, just to be safe in the future, he stays in D.C. whenever the Senate may be voting and does the job Illinois voters sent him there to do?
October 26, 2007 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jake D.,
Oh please, indeed. It was not going to be voted on in the near future. Obama left that night because it wasn't going to come up for a vote. The next day, Reid called a vote within 30 minutes.
I appreciate that you are not an Obama supporter. Fine. But you, and Biden, are being dishonest.
While Obama stays in D.C., how about your candidate? Oh, and since YOU bring up conspiracy, Reid's son works on Hillary's campaign.
If Hillary is your candidate, what do you say about her vote?
October 26, 2007 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary is NOT my candidate -- I haven't decided yet who I am voting for -- are you sure that Obama was in D.C. the day before the vote?
October 26, 2007 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
According to the Election Calendar here at TPM, both candidates were Little Rock (10:00 AM ET) and Chicago (11:30 AM ET) on the 25th -- did they carpool together at least?
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/calendar/2007/09/50th_anniversary_commemoration.php
http://tpmelectioncentral.com/calendar/2007/09/2008_presidential_american_dre.php
(Hillary somehow managed to make it back to D.C. the next day for her vote ; )
October 26, 2007 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
At the end of the day Reid said he'd bring it up in the next morning. Then obama skipped town. He has a history of skipping/voting present for tricky votes.
obamavangelists - Get Over It!
October 26, 2007 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jake D:
The original vote on KLA was scheduled for 10:00AM on September 25th, but was obviously pushed because of the debate about the issue (so technically HRC would have missed it as well). Both were in the Senate when it adjourned that day.
That being said, check out the Congressional Record on this one. The Biden Amendment and KLA were always "linked"--both came to the floor, or neither came to the floor. During his floor comments, he was essentially begging the Senators to vote on it on the 25th or by 10:00AM on the 26th--because he had to get to the NH debate.
Reid tables it for the foreseable future. The matter is NOT scheduled for a vote during the morning session (which ended at 11:30. After the morning recess, they announced a UC agreement, brought both matters to the floor and voted on them in 30 minutes.
Obama and McCain (who was also a co-sponsor of KLA) missed (did not skip) the vote (76-22). Biden knows it. Clinton knows it. Now you know it.
October 26, 2007 8:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's a big difference between "missed" and "skipped"? However it happened, Hillary did NOT miss the vote -- she was doing the job New Yorkers sent her to do -- you will at least admit that much, right?
October 26, 2007 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is part of why it is so darn hard to run for President out of the Senate--this stuff inevitably happens, and people will inevitably distort the record.
October 26, 2007 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
hadenough, I challenge you to provide a link for your assertion: "At the end of the day Reid said he'd bring it up in the next morning."
If you fail to provide a link to prove your statement, you have proven yourself a liar.
October 26, 2007 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jake D,
It is virtually impossible for Senators running for President not to miss some votes. I just checked the helpful voting database at the Washington Post:
Obama has missed 31.8% of the votes in the current Congress. Biden has missed 34.1%. Dodd 32.6%. Clinton has the best attendance, but is still at 16.2%.
October 26, 2007 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton does NOT have the "best" attendance -- short of a stroke, no U.S. Senator should miss votes (whether they are running for President or not).
October 26, 2007 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the 109th Congress, two Senators, Susan Collins (R-ME) and Charles Grassley (R-IA) missed ZERO votes out of 645 total votes:
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/109/senate/vote-missers/
October 26, 2007 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
It depends on how you parse "There will not be a vote on the other one [Kyl/Lieberman] anytime in the near future. We hope tonight will bring more clearness on the issue."
I don't see any guarantee that it will not be brought up the following day. I see Reid working to bring it to a vote OVERNIGHT.
After Obama misses 31.8% of the votes, he have much standing when he gets caught on a big one.
Keith: Is the pronoun he in "During his floor comments, he was essentially begging the Senators to vote on it on the 25th or by 10:00AM on the 26th--because he had to get to the NH debate" Obama? Is Obama asking that the business of the Senate on this issue be put on a schedule that matches his campaign needs?
October 26, 2007 9:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think those were Biden's comments, AJM (it was his amendment).
October 26, 2007 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chris Dodd is going to be on MTP Sunday (Colbert was hilarious last week).
October 26, 2007 9:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
To be fair to Obama, he has a much better track record of clear opposition to the Bush fiasco. Hillary for whatever reasons has come down firmly on both sides of the Iraq and Iran debates. She is our one and only cake-and-eat-it-candidate and I'll be damned if I can figure our why she is so far ahead in the polls...unless, of course, people are just not paying attention.
October 26, 2007 9:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jake D.,
Please note that I said it is virtually impossible for "Senators running for President" not to miss some votes, and I meant Senator Clinton had the best attendance record among the Democratic Senators running for President.
By the way: Brownback has missed 33.3%, and McCain has missed 52.0% (no typo).
October 26, 2007 9:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
MR. COLBERT: Marriage is the basic building block of society. And if gay men get married, that threatens my marriage immediately because I only got married as a taunt toward gay men because they couldn’t.
MR. RUSSERT: So it makes you feel insecure.
MR. COLBERT: Well, I just don’t know else — why I got married other than to rub it in gay people’s faces.
MR. RUSSERT: Would you consider Senator Larry Craig as your running mate?
MR. COLBERT: I would.
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MR. COLBERT: Define conversation.
MR. RUSSERT: Have you spoken to him?
MR. COLBERT: No, no.
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MR. RUSSERT: And how...
MR. COLBERT: Sorry, my lawyer’s telling me to say no more.
MR. RUSSERT: How did you express your interest in developing your relationship?
MR. COLBERT: Forcefully.
October 26, 2007 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Phil, since when in the past 30 years have more than 10% of the population actually paid attention to what their representatives are doing on their behalf?
We are doomed as a nation, and maybe as a planet. And we may just well deserve it.
October 26, 2007 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know what you meant DTM -- Senator Clinton also has the best attendance record among female Senators whose last name starts with the letter "C" -- did you see my post that U.S. Senators should miss ZERO votes?
October 26, 2007 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jake D.,
I was just making sure my original post was clear, and I am glad it was.
By the way, the practical import of adopting your rule would be that sitting Senators could not campaign for other offices. Of course, one might argue that is a good thing, and I will not opine on that subject.
October 26, 2007 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
JFK ran for President and didn't miss any key votes: http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/John+F.+Kennedys+Voting+Record+and+Stands+on+Issues+Page+3.htm
October 26, 2007 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jake D.,
That may be true, but I don't see how you are getting that claim out of that link--that appears just to be a list of how JFK voted on a few key bills during his time in Congress, and I don't see a claim to the effect that he never missed a "key vote". Moreover, you originally suggested Senators should miss "ZERO vctes" without the "key" qualifier, and I am not even sure if it is possible to give an objective definition of "key votes" versus just "votes".
In any event, I won't waste any more of your time--in my view every voter is entitled to their own personal standards when it comes to their representatives. So, if your personal standard is that your representatives should never miss votes, that is your right.
October 26, 2007 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jake D: I followed your link on JFK, and sort of randomly clicked a page beyond that first page, then found that JFK had been absent for two votes listed on the randomly clicked page [p. 7 or p9 ??], one being a vote in 1953 on foreign policy/control over US military, the other being a 1954 vote re: McCarthy condemnation. That is from one extra clicked page.....didn't check any other pages except to peruse the first page to come up on the link.
Oops, you may need to find some other 'perfect' hero to maintain your extraordinary standard. BTW, seeing that 'blemish' on JFK's voting record in no way diminishes my regard for JFK's statesman qualities.
October 26, 2007 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha, googling around about missing votes, I found an article from April about McCain having already missed 60 votes year-to-date. Guess who came in second among the presidental candidates on missed votes by April? Yep, Obama critic himself, Joe Biden had missed 41 votes by then. [at that date, Dodd had missed 26 votes, Obama had missed 7 and Clinton had missed 3]
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2007/04/mccain_most_absentee_08_senato.html
October 26, 2007 10:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dodd and Biden are nothing but Hillary's attack dogs. Both are jockeying for VP. They consistently gang up against Barack on the issues.
Last time it was Dodd attacking Barack about going after terrorists in the hills of Pakistan.
Today it is Biden attacking Barack for a position that he AGREES with him on.
Somehow Biden misses THAT point entirely as if missing the vote would have changed the outcome while conveniently not acknowledging that Barack came out against the K-L amendment BEFORE it was voted on.
This tag teaming is just so they can have a cabinet position or be the VP.
Neither Biden nor Dodd are running a serious campaign.
As senior Senators they are both pissed that Hillary is being called an experienced candidate vs. their tenure in the Senate and they sure as hell hate that Barack is running rings around them as a rookie Senator. That $75M he has raised REALLY sticks in their craw.
With Hillary they have to suck it up due to Bill and her's clout within the Democratic party, which also really eats at them. After all being first lady is a helluva put down to decades in the senate as credentials to be President.
So what role have these losers taken on? They are going to beat up on the BEST candidate we have for President.
Hopefully, Barack will come out swinging and take Biden to task about his vote for AUMF without that vote we would not even NO need to talk about the Kyl-L amendment nor Biden's plan to re-organize Iraq into 3 areas for each sect, because we would not even be in Iraq.
If Biden knew so much about Iraq he should have known to not vote for war with Iraq.
Biden authorized a dumb war on the wrong battlefield with no exit plan. If he had of used some of his foreign policy expertise to inform his judgment he would have stood up and acted like a leader and statesman and opposed the war. But he voted for it for the same reason Hillary did...because he was planning to run for President.
Anybody read Biden's floor statement when he cast the yes vote in 2002??
Knowing him he probably plagiarized those remarks.
October 27, 2007 12:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
The notion that Obama deliberatly missed this vote is sdo patently, facially stupid only a Fox News watching, Rush listening, Kool-Aid drinking Republican could be dumb enough to buy it. From a standpoint of pure presidential politics alone, there was no vote this year he was more interested in casting. I mean, are you claiming Obama deliberately missed the vote because he wanted to hand Hillary a cheap shot she could fire off in response to his critique? There was no "both ways" to be had here.
As to the notion that its inexcusable for a senator, get real. 95% of the votes in any legislative body are meaningless procedural twaddle. Congressmen have been skipping them since the beginning of the Republic because they do have more to do than just cast votes. Even for the important ones, every legislative body in existance has a long tradition of "pairing," i.e. if you can't make a vote and its going to be close, you reach an agreement with someone on the other side to also miss the vote. Which, if you'll notice, was the effect of McCain and Obama both missing the vote on K-L.
And yeah, if you're a senator and you're running for office, you're going to miss some votes. There are votes every day when Congress is in session. Unless you're one of the faux candidates who are just in it to appear in debates and give a few speeches before you fade away, you can't run from Washington. Are you saying only people who aren't in office should be allowed to run? If so, then you're largely limiting the field to losers and has-beens.
Finally, Reid clearly screwed Obama, whether deliberately or because he had some compelling unstated reason for scheduling the vote on such short notice, I don't know. As far as I can tell, putting something like this back on the calendar for a vote on a half hour's notice is unusual. (Interesting to note that an amendment being sponsored by Biden and Brownback was part of the hold-up that mysteriously resolved itself out of nowhere, isn't it?) I have not, however, heard Obama or anyone in his campaign "complain" about it. Nor would he--no good could come of it. I've only heard his supporters complain about it.
Oh, and by the way, Hillary ducked the vote on the Bankruptcy Act revision last year. Sure, she says she would have voted against it, but she missed the vote when the chips were down.
October 27, 2007 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
REID: We have been very close a few times, but we have just been informed that Senator Biden will not have a vote anytime in the near future. There will not be a vote on the other one [Kyl/Lieberman] anytime in the near future. We hope tonight will bring more clearness on the issue.
To me this leaves the matter of the time of the vote unsettled except that it wouldn't be that day. There would logically be a possiblity for the next day -- otherwise why work on it that night rather than tomorrow?
In any case, with the vote hanging fire ( and the outcome known once the vote was called) Obama thought his campaign activities were more important than the symbolism of being there to vote. It was a judgment call.
And no, desperate Obama supporters he doeos not get credit for a 'functional' match because McCain skipped unless they paired before hand. Keep it real.
October 27, 2007 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can't wait until Harold Stass . . . uh . . . I mean . . . Joe Biden, gets his 4% in the first few primaries and then goes away and turns his ego once again to his favorite hobbies, screwing poor and middle class Americans by being the Democratic poster child for things like the Bankruptcy Bill and plagarism.
Joe, do yourself a favor and spare yourself the embarrassment. Go away now.
October 27, 2007 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Congressional Record 09/26/07 Before 10:00AM:
Mr. REID. Mr. President, this morning
the Senate will conduct morning
business, with the time equally divided
and controlled between the two sides,
with the majority controlling the first
half hour.
We are working hard to come up with
an agreement on how we can dispose of
the Biden and Kyl amendments. We
were very close to being there several
times yesterday, but we are still not
there. Once we reach an agreement,
Members will be notified of when the
votes will occur.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=page&page=S12077&dbname=2007_record
Statement of Purpose: To express the sense of the Senate regarding Iran.
Vote Counts:
YEAs 76
NAYs 22
Not Voting 2
Not Voting - 2
McCain (R-AZ)
Obama (D-IL)
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00349
All noted without comment.
October 27, 2007 8:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
According to govtrack.us, Senator Obama ranks #11 in missed votes. On their site N=544. He weighs in at 12.1% missed votes out of all the potential votes possible since he was elected.
October 28, 2007 6:02 AM | Reply | Permalink