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Obama's Full Iraq Speech

Obama's now delivered his Iraq speech calling for immediate withdrawal and lacerating the D.C. pundit and political establishment for backing the invasion. Full text is after the jump.

A few months ago, I met a woman who told me her nephew was leaving for Iraq. As she started to tell me about how much she’d miss him and how worried she was about him, she began to cry. “I can’t breathe,” she said. “I want to know when I am going to be able to breathe again.”

I have her on my mind when I think about what we’ve gone through as a country and where we need to go. Because we’ve been holding our breath over Iraq for five years. As we go through yet another debate about yet another phase of this misguided war, we’ve got a familiar feeling. Again, we’re told that progress is upon us. Again, we’re asked to hold our breath a little longer. Again, we’re reminded of what’s gone wrong with our policies and our politics.

It was five years ago today – on September 12, 2002 – that President Bush made his case for war at the United Nations. Standing in front of a world that stood with us after 9/11, he said, “In the attacks on America a year ago, we saw the destructive intentions of our enemies.” Then he talked about Saddam Hussein – a man who had nothing to do with 9/11. But citing the lesson of 9/11, he and others said we had to act. “To suggest otherwise,” the President said, “is to hope against the evidence.”

George Bush was wrong. The people who attacked us on 9/11 were in Afghanistan, not Iraq. Al Qaeda in Iraq didn’t exist before our invasion. The case for war was built on exaggerated fears and empty evidence – so much so that Bob Graham, the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, decided to vote against the war after he read the National Intelligence Estimate.

But conventional thinking in Washington lined up for war. The pundits judged the political winds to be blowing in the direction of the President. Despite – or perhaps because of how much experience they had in Washington, too many politicians feared looking weak and failed to ask hard questions. Too many took the President at his word instead of reading the intelligence for themselves. Congress gave the President the authority to go to war. Our only opportunity to stop the war was lost.

I made a different judgment. I thought our priority had to be finishing the fight in Afghanistan. I spoke out against what I called “a rash war” in Iraq. I worried about, “an occupation of undetermined length, with undetermined costs, and undetermined consequences.” The full accounting of those costs and consequences will only be known to history. But the picture is beginning to come into focus.

Nearly 4,000 Americans have been killed in Iraq. Five times that number have suffered horrible wounds, seen and unseen. Loved ones have been lost, dreams denied. Children will grow up without fathers and mothers. Parents have outlived their children. That is a cost of this war.

When all is said and done, the price-tag will run over a trillion dollars. A trillion dollars. That’s money not spent on homeland security and counter-terrorism; on providing health care to all Americans and a world-class education to every child; on investments in energy to save ourselves and our planet from an addiction to oil. That is a cost of this war.

The excellence of our military is unmatched. But as a result of this war, our forces are under pressure as never before. Our National Guard and reserves have half of the equipment they need to respond to emergencies at home and abroad. Retention among West Point graduates is down. Our powers of deterrence and influence around the world are down. That is a cost of this war.

America’s standing has suffered. Our diplomacy has been compromised by a refusal to talk to people we don’t like. Our alliances have been compromised by bluster. Our credibility has been compromised by a faulty case for war. Our moral leadership has been compromised by Abu Ghraib. That is a cost of this war.

Perhaps the saddest irony of the Administration’s cynical use of 9/11 is that the Iraq War has left us less safe than we were before 9/11. Osama bin Ladin and his top lieutenants have rebuilt a new base in Pakistan where they freely train recruits, plot new attacks, and disseminate propaganda. The Taliban is resurgent in Afghanistan. Iran has emerged as the greatest strategic challenge to America in the Middle East in a generation. Violent extremism has increased. Terrorism has increased. All of that is a cost of this war.

After 9/11, instead of the politics of unity, we got a political strategy of division with the war in Iraq as its centerpiece. The only thing we were asked to do for our country was support a misguided war. We lost that sense of common purpose as Americans. And we’re not going to be a truly united and resolute America until we can stop holding our breath, until we can come together to reclaim our foreign policy and our politics and end this war that has cost us so much.

So there is something unreal about the debate that’s taking place in Washington.

With all that our troops and their families have sacrificed, with all this war has cost us, and with no discernible end in sight, the same people who told us we would be greeted as liberators, about democracy spreading across the Middle East, about striking a decisive blow against terrorism, about an insurgency in its last throes – those same people are now trumpeting the uneven and precarious containment of brutal sectarian violence as if it validates all of their failed decisions.

The bar for success is so low that it is almost buried in the sand.

The American people have had enough of the shifting spin. We’ve had enough of extended deadlines for benchmarks that go unmet. We’ve had enough of mounting costs in Iraq and missed opportunities around the world. We’ve had enough of a war that should never have been authorized and should never have been waged.

I opposed this war from the beginning. I opposed the war in 2002. I opposed it in 2003. I opposed it in 2004. I opposed it in 2005. I opposed it in 2006. I introduced a plan in January to remove all of our combat brigades by next March. And I am here to say that we have to begin to end this war now.

My plan for ending the war would turn the page in Iraq by removing our combat troops from Iraq’s civil war; by taking a new approach to press for a new accord on reconciliation within Iraq; by talking to all of Iraq’s neighbors to press for a compact in the region; and by confronting the human costs of this war.

First, we need to immediately begin the responsible removal of our troops from Iraq’s civil war. Our troops have performed brilliantly. They brought Saddam Hussein to justice. They have fought for over four years to give Iraqis a chance for a better future. But they cannot – and should not – bear the responsibility for resolving the grievances at the heart of Iraq’s civil war.

Recent news only confirms this. The Administration points to selective statistics to make the case for staying the course. Killings and mortar attacks and car bombs in certain districts are down from the highest levels we’ve seen. But they’re still at the same horrible levels they were at 18 months ago or two years ago. Experts will tell you that the killings are down in some places because the ethnic cleansing has already taken place. That’s hardly a cause for triumphalism.

The stated purpose of the surge was to enable Iraq’s leaders to reconcile. But as the recent report from the Government Accountability Office confirms, the Iraqis are not reconciling. Our troops fight and die in the 120 degree heat to give Iraq’s leaders space to agree, but they aren’t filling it. They are not moving beyond their centuries-old sectarian conflicts, they are falling further back into them.

We hear a lot about how violence is down in parts of Anbar province. But this has little to do with the surge – it’s because Sunni tribal leaders made a political decision to turn against al Qaeda in Iraq. This only underscores the point – the solution in Iraq is political, it is not military.

Violence is contained in some parts of Baghdad. That’s no surprise. Our troops have cleared these neighborhoods at great costs. But our troops cannot police Baghdad indefinitely – only Iraqis can. Rather than use our presence to make progress, the Iraqi government has put off taking responsibility – that’s the finding of a Commission headed by General Jim Jones. And our troop presence cannot be sustained without crippling our military’s ability to respond to other contingencies.

Let me be clear: there is no military solution in Iraq, and there never was. The best way to protect our security and to pressure Iraq’s leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops. Not in six months or one year – now.

We should enter into talks with the Iraqi government to discuss the process of our drawdown. We must get out strategically and carefully, removing troops from secure areas first, and keeping troops in more volatile areas until later. But our drawdown should proceed at a steady pace of one or two brigades each month. If we start now, all of our combat brigades should be out of Iraq by the end of next year.

We will need to retain some forces in Iraq and the region. We’ll continue to strike at al Qaeda in Iraq. We’ll protect our forces as they leave, and we will continue to protect U.S. diplomats and facilities. If – but only if - Iraq makes political progress and their security forces are not sectarian, we should continue to train and equip those forces. But we will set our own direction and our own pace, and our direction must be out of Iraq. The future of our military, our foreign policy, and our national purpose cannot be hostage to the inaction of the Iraqi government.

Removing our troops is part of applying real pressure on Iraq’s leaders to end their civil war. Some argue that we should just replace Prime Minister Maliki. But that wouldn’t solve the problem. We shouldn’t be in the business of supporting coups. And remember – before Maliki, we said that we just needed to replace the last Prime Minister to make everything all right. It didn’t work.

The problems in Iraq are bigger than one man. Iraq needs a new Constitutional convention that would include representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in and out of government. The United Nations should play a central role in convening and participating in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new accord on national reconciliation is reached. To reconcile, the Iraqis must also meet key political benchmarks outside of the Constitutional process, including new local elections and revising debaathification.

Now the Iraqis may come out of this process choosing some kind of soft partition into three regions – one Sunni, one Shia, one Kurd. But it must be their choice. America should not impose the division of Iraq.

While we change the dynamic within Iraq, we must surge our diplomacy in the region.

At every stage of this war, we have suffered because of disdain for diplomacy. We have not brought allies to the table. We have refused to talk to people we don’t like. And we have failed to build a consensus in the region. As a result, Iraq is more violent, the region is less stable, and America is less secure.

We need to launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent history to reach a new compact in the region. This effort should include all of Iraq’s neighbors, and we should also bring in the United Nations Security Council. All of us have a stake in Iraq’s stability. It’s time to make this less about what America is trying to do for Iraq, and more about what the world can do with Iraq.

This compact must secure Iraq’s borders, keep neighbors from meddling, isolate al Qaeda, and support Iraq’s unity. That means helping our Turkish and Kurdish friends reach an understanding. That means pressing Sunni states like Saudi Arabia to stop the flow of foreign fighters into Iraq, increase their financial support of reconstruction efforts, and encourage Iraqi Sunnis to reconcile with their fellow Iraqis. And that means turning the page on the Bush-Cheney policy of not talking to Syria and Iran.

Conventional thinking in Washington says Presidents cannot lead this diplomacy. But I think the American people know better. Not talking doesn’t make us look tough – it makes us look arrogant. And it doesn’t get results. Strong Presidents tell their adversaries where they stand, and that’s what I would do. That’s how tough and principled diplomacy works. And that’s what we need to press Syria and Iran to stop being part of the problem in Iraq.

Iran poses a grave challenge. It builds a nuclear program, supports terrorism, and threatens Israel with destruction. But we hear eerie echoes of the run-up to the war in Iraq in the way that the President and Vice President talk about Iran. They conflate Iran and al Qaeda, ignoring the violent schism that exists between Shiite and Sunni militants. They issue veiled threats. They suggest that the time for diplomacy and pressure is running out when we haven’t even tried direct diplomacy. Well George Bush and Dick Cheney must hear – loud and clear – from the American people and the Congress: you don’t have our support, and you don’t have our authorization for another war.

George Bush suggests that there are two choices with regard to Iran. Stay the course in Iraq or cede the region to the Iran. I reject this choice. Keeping our troops tied down in Iraq is not the way to weaken Iran – it’s precisely what has strengthened it. President Ahmadinejad may talk about filling a vacuum in the region after an American drawdown, but he’s badly mistaken. It’s time for a new and robust American leadership. And that should begin with a new cooperative security framework with all of our friends and allies in the Persian Gulf.

Now is the time for tough and sustained diplomacy backed by real pressure. It’s time to rally the region and the world to our side. And it’s time to deliver a direct message to Tehran. America is a part of a community of nations. America wants peace in the region. You can give up your nuclear ambitions and support for terror and rejoin the community of nations. Or you will face further isolation, including much tighter sanctions. As we deliver this message, we will be stronger – not weaker – if we are disengaging from Iraq’s civil war.

The final part of my plan is a major international initiative to address Iraq’s humanitarian crisis.

President Bush likes to warn of the dire consequences of ending the war. He warns of rising Iranian influence, but that has already taken place. He warns of growing terrorism, but that has already taken place. And he warns of huge movements of refugees and mass sectarian killing, but that has already taken place. These are not the consequences of a future withdrawal. They are the reality of Iraq’s present. They are a direct consequence of waging this war. Two million Iraqis are displaced in their own country. Another two million Iraqis have fled as refugees to neighboring countries. This mass movement of people is a threat to the security of the Middle East and to our common humanity. We have a strategic interest – and a moral obligation – to act.

The President would have us believe there are two choices: keep all of our troops in Iraq or abandon these Iraqis. I reject that choice. We cannot continue to put this burden on our troops alone. I’m tired of this notion that we either fight foolish wars or retreat from the world. We are better than that as a nation.

There’s no military solution that can reunite a family or resettle an orphaned child. It’s time to form an international working group with the countries in the region, our European and Asian friends, and the United Nations. The State Department says it has invested $183 million on displaced Iraqis this year -- but that is not nearly enough. We can and must do more. We should up our share to at least $2 billion to support this effort; to expand access to social services for refugees in neighboring countries; and to ensure that Iraqis displaced inside their own country can find safe-haven.

Iraqis must know that those who engage in mass violence will be brought to justice. We should lead in forming a commission at the U.N. to monitor and hold accountable perpetrators of war crimes within Iraq. We must also put strict conditions on U.S. assistance to direct our support to those who want to hold Iraq together – not those who are tearing it apart. The risk of greater atrocities in the short-term cannot deter us from doing what we must to minimize violence in the long-term. Yet as we drawdown, we must declare our readiness to intervene with allies to stop genocidal violence.

We must also keep faith with Iraqis who kept faith with us. One tragic outcome of this war is that the Iraqis who stood with America – the interpreters, embassy workers, and subcontractors – are being targeted for assassination. An Iraqi named Laith who worked for an American organization told a journalist, “Sometimes I feel like we’re standing in line for a ticket, waiting to die.” And yet our doors are shut. In April, we admitted exactly one Iraqi refugee – just one!

That is not how we treat our friends. That is not how we take responsibility for our own actions. That is not who we are as Americans. It’s time to at least fill the 7,000 slots that we pledged to Iraqi refugees and to be open to accepting even more Iraqis at risk. It’s also time to go to our friends and allies – and all the members of our original coalition in Iraq – to find homes for the many Iraqis who are in desperate need of asylum.

Keeping this moral obligation is a key part of how we turn the page in Iraq. Because what’s at stake is bigger than this war – it’s our global leadership. Now is a time to be bold. We must not stay the course or take the conventional path because the other course is unknown. To quote Dr. Brzezinski – we must not allow ourselves to become “prisoners of uncertainty.”

George Bush is afraid of this future. That is why all he can do is drag up the past. After all the flawed justifications for his failed policy, he now invokes Vietnam as a reason to stay in Iraq. Let’s put aside the strange reasoning – that all would have been well if we had just stayed the course in Vietnam. Let’s put it aside and leave it where it belongs – in the past.

Now is not the time to reargue the Vietnam War – we did that in the 2004 election, and it wasn’t pretty. I come from a new generation of Americans. I don’t want to fight the battles of the 1960s. I want to reclaim the future for America, because we have too many threats to face and too many opportunities to seize. Just think about what we can accomplish together when we end this war.

When we end this war in Iraq, we can finally finish the fight in Afghanistan. That is why I propose stepping up our commitment there, with at least two additional combat brigades and a comprehensive program of aid and support to help Afghans help themselves.

When we end this war in Iraq, we can more effectively tackle the twin demons of extremism and hopelessness that threaten the peace of the world and the security of America. That is why I have proposed a program to spread hope – not hate – in the Islamic world, to build schools that teach young people to build and not destroy, to support the rule of law and economic development, and to launch a program of outreach to the Islamic world that I will lead as President.

When we end this war in Iraq, we can once again lead the world against the common challenges of the 21st century. Against the spread of nuclear weapons and climate change. Against genocide in Darfur. Against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair. When we end this war, we can reclaim the cause of freedom and democracy. We can be that beacon of hope, that light to all the world.

When we end this war, we can recapture our unity of effort as Americans. The American people have the right instincts on Iraq. It’s time to heed their judgment. It’s time to move beyond Iraq so that we can move forward together. I will be a President who listens to the American people, not a President who ignores them.

And when we end the war in Iraq, we can come together to give our full attention to advancing the cause of health care for every American, an energy policy that does not bankroll hostile nations while we melt the polar ice caps, and a world class education for our children. Above all, we can turn the page to a new kind of politics of unity, not division; of hope, not fear.

You know, I welcome all of the folks who have changed their position on the war over these last months and years. And we need more of those votes to change if we’re going to change the direction of this war. That is why I will keep speaking directly to my colleagues in the Congress, both Republican and Democratic. Historically, we have come together in a bipartisan way to deal with our most monumental challenges. We should do so again. We have the power to do this – not as Republicans or Democrats, but as Americans. We don’t have to wait until George Bush is gone from office – we can begin to end this war today, right now.

But if we have learned anything from Iraq, it is that the judgment that matters most is the judgment that is made first.

Martin Luther King once stood up at Riverside Church and said, “In this unfolding conundrum of life and history, there is such a thing as being too late.” We are too late to stop a war that should never have been fought; too late to undo the pain of battle, the anguish of so many families, or the price of the fight; too late to redo the years of division and distraction at home and abroad.

But I’m here today because it’s not too late to come together as Americans. Because we’re not going to be able to deal with the challenges that confront us until we end this war. What we can do is say that we will not be prisoners of uncertainty. That we reject the conventional thinking that led us into Iraq and that didn’t ask hard questions until it was too late. What we can say is that we are ready for something new and something bold and something principled.

It’s time for us to breathe again. That begins with ending this war – but it does not end there. It’s time reclaim our foreign policy. It’s time to reclaim our politics. And it’s time to lead this country – and this world – again, to a new dawn of peace and unity.


23 Comments

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I'll give him another two months maybe three. And of course his senate career is shot.

What in the world makes axlerod think attacking dems with bush's war is a good idea. And at what point is it just insanity? How many times does obama try to tar dems with bush's and then fall in the polls before he figures out that's not gonna work.

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This speech -- to borrow a phrase from Bush -- kicks ass. I love the way he begins the speech and the holding our breath metaphor. I'm a Obama supporter, but lately I've been critical of his too-tentative tone. This is a very positive development; it's a sign he may be finally hitting his stride as a campaigner.

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Excellent speech and, IMO, the right strategy for Iraq and for the region and for our country.

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Righton, hadenough! At least he spared us his usual Reagan schtick, this time.

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Hadenough and JoeCHI, your concern for Obama's campaign and future Senate prospects touches me to the marrow. Given your long history of supportive and perspicacious comments, you're both just the people I'd look to for campaign advice, if I were him.

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Hadenough and JoeCHI try reading the speech again, actually reading the words, digesting the concepts, on your own, without your Hillary and/or Fox News blinders on.

The speech was excellent. Obama is going to make an excellent President, and with 58 or 59 (D) Senators (not including Lieberman), we will have a chance to make some serious changes and help a lot of people in the years to come.

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"NCSteve wrote on September 12, 2007 5:10 PM:
Hadenough and JoeCHI, your concern for Obama's campaign and future Senate prospects touches me to the marrow."

Here is the difference: Just like repubs and their guy bush for you your guy obama is more important than the party. Me, I couldn't careless about obama. What does bother me is obama trashing dems.

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Hadenough, you and people who think like you are precisely the problem. The Dems who did not speak out against the war back when it mattered in October 2002 - March 2003 (including Edwards, cosponsor of the war resolution) were counting precisely on intensely partisan folks like you to give them a break and not hold them accountable if the war turned out badly.

The world is not either/or. Yes, Bush deserves the vast bulk of the blame. Yes, Hillary is preferable to Bush But, NO, he's not the only one to blame. He's not the only one who needs to be held accountable. The constitution would have allowed a majority in Congress to prevent war authorization, and a majority to add preconditions (like the Levin amendment) that would have prevented or delayed the march to war. Sadly, we need a supermajority to condition funding on a troop withdrawal. The time to try to stop the war was then, and not now. And though I think many, including possibly Hillary, were not casting their votes for the war out of bad faith or cynicism but out of a genuine (over)reaction to 9-11, they made a monumental blunder, and now is our time to hold them accountable. If there were no alternative candidate to Hillary who was not as thoughtful, intelligent and accomplished as Obama, then it would be a tough call whether to punish her for her war vote. But Obama -- though he's proved far from perfect and far from the guy who walked on water that many (like Jon Stewart, but notably not Obama himself) thought he was -- has every qualification to be a great President.

What is democracy about if it's not about holding people accountable who make bad judgments, even bad judgments in good faith.

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I might add one more thing: Sometimes, when the leaders of party make a mistake on a huge issue like war or peace, that's precisely when the best thing for the party is someone who believes in its core principles to take on the leaders who made the mistake. Though I'm not in any way comparing the blunder of the pro-Iraq-war crowd here to that of the anti-war group in preWWII England, on the issue of partisanship, I do think it's worth recalling that the Conservative Party in England misread Hitler, and it took a group of Conservative Party insurgents, like Churchill, to save that party from itself.

So, Obama is not being disloyal to the Democrats by holding some of them accountable for their policy judgment in the pre-Iraq period; he's exercising a deeper kind of loyalty -- just like citizens who speak out against an unjust war are not being disloyal to their country, but are showing their loyalty in a deeper way.

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"Hadenough and JoeCHI try reading the speech again, actually reading the words, digesting the concepts, on your own, without your Hillary and/or Fox News blinders on."

Oh. OK.

There, done. See this part right here:
"too many politicians feared looking weak and failed to ask hard questions. Too many took the President at his word instead of reading the intelligence for themselves. Congress gave the President the authority to go to war. Our only opportunity to stop the war was lost."

That's bullsh*t. It's awfully late in movie so I'm not gonna waste time going over what happened with you but just to let ya know: That ain't it.

Now either obama was on another planet or he is a shameless bold faced liar. Either way he is a minus for dems.

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Please indulge a correction to my second post above: I meant to say, "The best time to stop the war was then." I of course think that it should be stopped now as well.

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It's awfully late in movie so I'm not gonna waste time going over what happened with you but just to let ya know: That ain't it.

Translation:

That's what happened, but I don't want to admit it, so I'm not going to actually address the facts.
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Hadenough and JoeChi, the only people that are acting like Republicans and trashing Dems to trash Dems just because you support someone else here are you. However, please continue. The shrillness and vitriolic nature, very common from people like O'Reilly and Hannity, of your posts excellently point out the difference between the Clinton campaign and the Obama campaign.

One believes that you should talk to both your friends and your enemies. The other believes that if you shout down and belittle your enemies with whatever it takes, be it lies, slander or innuendo, you won't look dirty in the end.

One has a history of getting necessary legislation passed. The other has a history of allowing partisanship to get necessary legislation killed.

One thinks that changing the culture in Washington is a good thing and has legislation to prove their intent. The other thinks that talking about changing the culture in Washington is a good pr move and has done nothing to change it.

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Obama's plan leaves troops in Iraq to fight "al Qaeda in Iraq" and possibly to train Iraqi forces. That means tens of thousands of US troops still in Iraq. This does not end the war, because as long as we're there, we're going to keep getting attacked, and we're going to keep fighting back.

http://soundbyte.barackobama.com/Fact%20Sheet%20Iraq%20Final.pdf

"Under the Obama plan, American troops may remain in Iraq or the region. These American troops will protect American military and diplomatic personnel in Iraq, and continue striking at Al Qaeda in Iraq. If Iraq makes political progress and their security forces are not sectarian, we would also continue training other Iraqi Security Forces. In the event of an outbreak of genocide, we would reserve the right to intervene, with the international community, if that intervention was needed to provide civilians with a safe-haven."

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Barck Obama's speech is so lucid, so honest and manages to expose the incredible fraud that is called the Bush administration. What this has cost us is our name. We now represent an increase in terrorism, bad foreign policy, alienation of allies, brutality, injustice and most of all lying and perpetration of war upon an innocent people. This is not how we want our country to be seen and remembered in the difficult days to come. Obama encourages us to take a good long look at Iraq and the beginning and consequences of the decision to invade. This is not a war. This is a slaughter. Obama offers us someone we need desparately, a statesman that will tell the TRUTH and make every attempt to live it. We have needed such a voice for a very long time now. Our poor soldiers are dying for absolutely nothing, and it is a real horror that the slaughter of Iraqis by the US, insurgencies, counter'insurgencies, corrupt police and other outsiders---it is a horror and a sham to act as thought the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, who have also died for absolutely nothing; that their deaths are so unimportant as to not even have been counted by our government. At least we know how many Americans have died. I welcome this voice of reason, and if there were an election tomorrow, this man would win, hands down. And to the Democrats that want the war to continue so they can end it I say "Just look at the blood on your hands". I'm with Obama. Do it now. Get our troops out of Iraq and use every possible way to get all factions to face each other and talk. Its time. And just think, if we get this troop thing going now and they are all out by next year then maybe we will have the time to focus on the criminals who are running our country now and let justice take care of them. It is a real fallacy to believe that diplomacy cannot work. You just let people talk until they finally figure out what to do. We are NOT the deciders of the state of the world. I love America. It would be nice to feel we are bringing freedom home for ourselves and for future generations. It would be nice to hold our heads up again in the family of man. It would be nice to live by our Constitution. Suddenly, it all seems feasible. Thank you, Barack Obama.

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Hadenough,

Um, you're aware this is a Democratic primary election, right? They're running against each other. All of them try to distinguish themselves from the others. Its kind of how these things work. Elections, I mean, not coronations.

As to your quote from the speech, from where I was sitting, it looked like that's exactly what happened. I'm not specifically talking about the other Democratic candidates who were in the Senate at the time, and neither did he (if he was "trashing" them, he would have, btw), but I concede that its likely not a coincidence that that particularly ugly shoe fits them.

But there there are more important points being made in his speech than just the political ones, and he made it explicitly. Bush and Cheney and the rest of the Neocon nuts are are gearing up for yet another war. With Iran, this time. Christ, did you not hear Lieberman's qustions to Patreus yesterday? They're running the exact same con they did last time and Congress had damn well better reach down and find a pair and say NO this time before its too late. Any idiot should be able to see that attacking Iran will be a disaster that would make the Iraq disaster look like a stunning success. But then, our current disaster was perfectly foreseeable in 2002 for those who had the guts to face it.


So far, it ain't looking too good on the stopping it front. Last month, when somebody (I admit I'm too damned lazy to Google up who, someone help me out here) tried to amend the AUMF to make it clear that it did not authorize an attack on Iran, Lieberman got it tabled and substituted a resolution full of anti-Iran craziness. Our wise and couragous Solons practically wet themselves in their eagerness to vote for it.

So yeah, if he's got to put some blush on the cheeks of the Dems who were there at the time to remind them that their craven cave-in in 2002 was a political liability for each of them and a complete disaster for the country, more power to him. If it helps his campaign in the process, yay for him. If it hurts him, it hurts him. But I'll be damned if I can see how his criticizing the members of the 2002 Congress, which happens include all the other Democratic candidates, for voting to approve this war can possibly hurt any of them in the general election if they get the nomination. What, are the Republicans going to criticise the for being too hawkish?

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If there were still a rating system, I'd give Michael Caine 5 stars. That was a great post.

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And, yeah, yeah, I know Kucinich voted against it. I was talking about the Senate.

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It's too bad some Obamaists and Hillaryites cannot refrain from the petty backbiting and foolishness that characterize high school elections when posting here. I know both sides have lots of spirit, but that stuff is really annoying and unnecesary. I am interested in what ALL of the presidential candidates are saying about the war, but I'm especially interested in what they are saying they will DO about the war.

A good deal of Obama's speech today is accurate and well met from most Democrats and other reality-based individuals. Obama is most certainly positioning himself in a way he deems prudent and popular. No harm, no foul. If he didn't I would be worried about him---and the others. It's silly simply to condemn what underlies everything in a campaign such as position ing one's self on issues in one candidate and not in others. but that is not really a substantive criticism of his speech.

As I said, much of what Obama had to say was good stuff. I wish he had more forcefully opposed the war before now, but now beats never. I think he still has a way to go to make clear what exactly he is willing to do as a Senator to stop the war now.

I am troubled by a couple of things in the speech. First, leaving troops to fight Al Qaeda in Iraq seems to me very ill-advised. First, no Iraqi will believe that at all. Second, the way to make sure Al Qaeda in Iraq is eliminated is for the US to leave! When we leave, you can rest assured that other Iraqis will snuff out the very unwelcome presence of Al Qaeda in Iraq and it won't take long either. They will be destroyed by Iraqis far more effectively than by our troops. Leaving any troops in Iraq is, in my opinion, not ending the war. It is only changing the war. Obama must come to realize the war must end completely and totally for Iraq and the region to stabilize and eventually move forward. WE are the problem in Iraq and we were from day one. It does not appear he fully accepts this--at least from what is in the speech. Leaving any troops is a mistake and an ongoing invitation to ratchet the war back up on a grander scale.

Many of us believe that we must leave Iraq and as quickly as possible. Not a disorderly, unplanned evacuation, but an orderly and efficient withdrawal as quick as possible. The sooner the better for all concerned. Obviously, that cannot occur overnight, but it doesn't have to take until December 08 as Obama apparently envisions. This appears to me to be more of his positioning toward the center which may be smart politics, but I don't think it is good politics. This is why I find Dodd's position so encouraging and that of others as well. He seems to have really gotten it that in the long run, every day we stay in Iraq that we don't have to is making things worse not just for them but for America. I also happen to believe that doing the right thing is in the long term interest of Democrats particularly on this question but on just about everything else as well. It is much more important in the context of the war though for obvious reasons both political and moral.

The entire political strategic approach by Democrats these past 20 years to position one's self as a candidate in the center is to concede a great deal of ground prior to the start of any battle. Wathcing Obama go down that same road disheartens me and disappoints me. It skews our process to the right and I see that as a major strategic blunder politically for many reasons but probably most importantly because it is wrong in my view. Because it is wrong, it hamstrings us from doing what is right. It gives encouragement to the timid and faint of heart and dampens the natural instincts of all good Democrats to do what we know we ought to be doing in terms of governmental policies overall.

But when we are arguing about war it is more than simple political strategy, much more and tacking to the center is a compromise I simply cannot accept on this subject. I know I am joined by millions of Democrats of all stripes in this belief who are not necessarily supporting just one of the candidates. Because this revulsion of what this war has wrought and the imperative of ending it this is where many of us draw the line.

I like Obama. I will vote for him if he wins the nomination--gladly to beat the Republicans. But I believe it is perfectly reasonable for all Democrats to expect more of him, given his position of huge influence at this time. It's fair to expect more than just offering pleasing rhetoric, but also to make very clear that the war must end and I mean really and truly and fully end. It's certainly fair game to expect that he would abandon his centrist positioning to make clear he will not continue to support this war in any way, that he will use his power and influence as a Senator and possibly the next President to really lead on this issue and refuse to allow further funding of the war, he should refuse to support any legislation without timetables that are enforecable--no symbolic gestures--other Dems should do likewise but we are talking about Obama right now. But today, instead of clearly and unequivocally stating he will forcefully oppose further funding he demures. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. Like his asserion that he would like to keep troops in country to continue fighting with AQI, that is a conscious choice that tells a great deal about him and his committment to really conclude the hostilities in Iraq. It concerns me and makes me think that there's little difference between him and Hillary on this. It makes me think that while he opposed entry into the war he is not really committed to ending it completely.

I liked what Obama said about Iran as far as he went with respect to Bushco wanting to attack them. On the other hand, his boilerplate demonization of Iran also lends some credence to the more hostile position Bushco takes toward them. Toying with the idea of threatening force against Iran even in a sidelong way is, in my estimation, a continuation of the foolishly unproductive hostility coming out of Washington from both parties since 1979 that has gotten us nowhere with them or the Muslim world. He departs from Bush in terms of attacking Iran ostensibly for interfering with the slaughter in Iraq, but he still uses the hostile language DC loves against Iran. Why?

I'm not saying we shouldn't be wary of the Iranian leadership, but I do believe it is long past time for wagging the American finger at them and instead admitting our approach has failed miserably for the last twenty years and we need to start talking to and dealing with these people because they aren't going anywhere and our ongoing hostility and bellicosity toward them only yields more of the same.

I should say also that I would critique every Democratic member of Congress (especially those running for President) in exactly the same way as I do Obama and yes, he seems further along the road than Hillary does on the war and Iran, but she does not make the same claim to being different that he does. I do think it a feather in his cap that he was opposed to the war when it started, but that alone is not enough for his current position to be deemed superior to others. I too was vehemently opposed to the illegal invasion like many others, but many good Democrats were either taken or foolishly fell for the pro-war trap. It made me sick then and still does but it happened. Those who remain committed to the war are the worst sort, but most Democrats (elected and otherwise) who failed us on that fateful matter have admitted their poor judgement and come around to oppose the war as have most of our fellow citizens. What is important is what they will actually do now to bring it to a halt and not just rhetorically. It is especially important for Presidential aspirants to demonstrate the courage and willngness to act and not just to verbalize opposition to this most immoral and illegal war of agression and that is what it is folks. I am glad Obama seems to be coming around, but I still think he's got a way to go before I will believe he truly gets it and truly is committed to ending this foolish war. He wants to distance himself from official Washington but I still get strong wiffs of it in this speech so I am wary.

In any event, on balance the speech was a positive development. As he and hopefully the rest of the congress evolves, I hope the Hillary and Obama people in particular will try and restrain themselves from the cheap namecalling and schoolyard behavior at least on this site. Everything that needs to be said can be said here without pointlessly nasty sniping, backbiting and gratuitous insults.

user-pic

"NCSteve wrote on September 12, 2007 6:10 PM:
Hadenough,

Um, you're aware this is a Democratic primary election, right? They're running against each other. All of them try to distinguish themselves from the others. Its kind of how these things work. Elections, I mean, not coronations."

This is a primary! Oh my bad, I had no idea. Yeah, I had no idea.

Anyway, obama is trashing dems with lies. That's OK with you. Fine. It's not OK with me. So you and lying buddy can enjoy each other and I'll continue to point the obama is a snake oil salesmen.

user-pic

Oleeb, I agree with your initial sentiments, but are you aware of the irony of your call to highmindedness, followed immediately by the accusation that Obama did not believe what he was saying in his speech, but was just trying to sound centrist out of fear. Where's your evidence that Obama is acting in bad faith?

Isn't it possible -- indeed probable -- that his speech reflected what he really believes? Isn't it true that if he really wanted to do what was merely expedient for him, he would have tried to pull a full hard-left pander, since everyone knows his most formidable obstacle in his quest for the presidencey is Hillary Clinton and not any Republican, and that, this year, no Democrat can win by trying to run to Hillary's right? If he wanted to do the cheap, expedient thing, he would rewrite MoveOn's talking points in loftier language, but that's not the way he operates, which is why many of us like him so much.

user-pic

Okay, if that is what he really believes then I think he needs to change his position. It isn't not high-minded to point out that a politician might be making a bad decision.

user-pic

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